Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[tyhiggz]

I've gotten very used to jumping into an immediate nair to get spacing. This helps a lot when they're constantly going for grabs or are right behind you.

 

[Fuzzio]

On the footage thread, Slice suggested I punish my opponents' aerials with out of shield up smash, up tilt, and down b. Up smash is easy enough to do out of shield by jump cancelling. Is there a better way of doing up tilt / down b other than drop shield -> do move?

 

[Skull_Kid]

Hm, so i've been trying to Shield Drop with Yoshi but nothing happened. Is there some way to do it or do we just have to deal with it? (I can perform it with every other character so i guess it's due to Yoshi's shield?)

 

[BadKarma]

Haven't had the chance to test this yet wondering if anyone else has. When we do an egg lay on rosalina now, can luma still attack while rosalina is inside the egg? I know luma can't attack attack when we grab rosalina now. Just not sure about egg lay.

 

[noxmiles]

@Airborne - thanx for the tips! I found the discussion you were talking about on page 17 of the social thread (for anyone else who wants to know). Great stuff! Will try em out!

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Luma can still attack while Rosalina is grabbed. That wasn't changed.

 

[Sinister Slush]

What's changed is the luma won't attack when you throw her.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

That's not true either. As long as Luma isn't getting hit it can attack.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Think it's more of if you grab Rosalina and throw her before luma can react you won't get hit. So in a sense you won't get hit if you don't pummel, though in this video (just an example, there's prolly a good handful out there but one I'm currently watching) on 4 occasions luma does nothing. Not sure if the Rosalina is just bad or luma actually can't do anything.

Either way, like most characters if we pummel Rosalina we can hit Luma anyways.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

ok figured out I was wrong. Luma can't attack while Rosalina is grabbed/thrown unless Luma is separated from Rosalina from using Luma Shot. (whoops)

As for the original question, Luma can attack during Egg Lay. (I'm right this time I promise)

 

[Jmorsch]

Does JC Up Smash give more distance then a Hyphen Up Smash.
Also what do you usually do out of and egg lay.

 

[CarlSagan42]

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on turning around midair to do a backwards tongue. I seem to always end up doing an egg roll or not turning around. Any ideas on the correct inputs to do this reliably?

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

You press B and then the direction you're not facing. The window is small so you just have to practice it. (also hi carl )

 

[Arbitation]

Hey Carl!

This thread should be helpful: http: //smashboards.com/threads/turnaround-bs-b-reverses-and-wavebounces-know-the-difference.368536/

Mostly you just want to avoid inputting a direction and B at the same time.

(EDIT: Sorry for the disjoint, still can't post links due to post count < 10)

 

[CarlSagan42]

Very helpful, thanks! :D

 

[Funkermonster]

How do you do the Jab, Usmash? When I try it I end up doing the second jab instead. And would Nair be a decent OoS move?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

• Input Jab - > Dash - > Upsmash is how i do it, but i dont usually do it. I still jab to down b as a left over habit from brawl.
• Nair oos is a great option just dont overestimate your range, and if they hit you with something laggy, opt for an upsmash instead, and if they're out of range for upsmash but you still have a window, dash attack or dash grab.

 

[Funkermonster]

• Input Jab - > Dash - > Upsmash is how i do it, but i dont usually do it. I still jab to down b as a left over habit from brawl.
• Nair oos is a great option just dont overestimate your range, and if they hit you with something laggy, opt for an upsmash instead, and if they're out of range for upsmash but you still have a window, dash attack or dash grab.

Ok thanks, will try to remember that next time I play yoshi and get his Amiibo figurine, assuming Amiibo can even o those.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I haven't experimented much with it, but does the triple/super jump still exist with cancelling or was it removed?

 

[Remioli]

• Input Jab - > Dash - > Upsmash is how i do it, but i dont usually do it. I still jab to down b as a left over habit from brawl.
• Nair oos is a great option just dont overestimate your range, and if they hit you with something laggy, opt for an upsmash instead, and if they're out of range for upsmash but you still have a window, dash attack or dash grab.

Do you know how reliable jab->up smash is? Can it be dodged or jumped out of?

 

[Jmorsch]

• Input Jab - > Dash - > Upsmash is how i do it, but i dont usually do it. I still jab to down b as a left over habit from brawl.
• Nair oos is a great option just dont overestimate your range, and if they hit you with something laggy, opt for an upsmash instead, and if they're out of range for upsmash but you still have a window, dash attack or dash grab.

Is jab -> down b a good kill option? I never really played him him brawl, but I like the way he feels in this Smash4.

 

[Sinister Slush]

To be honest it's a bit more reliable than Jab into DownB this time around, prolly because of the way our new jab kinda knocks them a bit more away than Brawl's jab did.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

• Idk if second jump refreshing or whatever the general name for it was is still in this game, but our super jump is gone because our double jump doesnt dip anymore.
• sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. As of right now i cant fully test it because 3ds, but from what i did test it is guaranteed but at certain percents. Not sure which so play with it
• Dunno. the second hit of down b is a lot less reliable after jab at high percents or against characters with small hurtboxes or really light ones....ehh. lot of testing i gotta do on it. For now lets go with no. It would be better used at mid percents to rack damage. (21% iirc)

 

[Zork]

A couple of questions.

1. There used to be a picture floating around showing all the various angles Yoshi could hit with egg toss. I believe that was for 64 but I'm assuming this hasn't changed much and Yoshi has as much control over it as ever(correct me if I'm wrong). So does anyone have a link to that picture if so?

2. Is Yoshi's pivot grab still great? It was the fastest "tether" grab in Brawl making it an excellent whiff punish tool.

 

[Delta-cod]

1) I've noticed that the egg's angles are definitely different from Brawl's, at the very least, so the picture wouldn't be the most accurate. I also don't know where it is, so I can't get it for you. Sorry. =(

2) Pivot Grab comes out fast, but got this extra end lag, where the tongue like, snaps into his mouth and his head squishes/recoils a bit. It's not nearly as safe as it had been, and I wouldn't really count on it being a default move anymore. At least from my limited experience thus far.

 

[Zork]

Thanks. I guess that's too bad about the pivot grab. But considering how much Yoshi has been buffed in other areas I suppose it's not a big deal. As for the Egg Toss, hopefully someone else makes a similar picture for Smash 4.

Oh and one more question :

Regarding Yoshi's down B, can it still autosnap the ledge if done above it? I'm assuming this is even better now because of the no danger of ledge hogging? Also does it work well as an anti-air on the ground and a frame trap for air dodges in the air?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Too lazy to save and use imgur so just gonna use the regular link. Was a picture from the sbbwiki

Also yeah delta, pivot grab is still the same outside of that swallowing tongue motion, it really sucks. As for eggs yeah the arcs are different, if comparing to brawl it definitely doesn't go as far, but it can go higher and lower I believe.

Regarding Yoshi's down B, can it still autosnap the ledge if done above it? I'm assuming this is even better now because of the no danger of ledge hogging? Also does it work well as an anti-air on the ground and a frame trap for air dodges in the air?

Yes it still snaps to the ledge, not too sure on underneath it if I remember one of yonzemi's vines showing it's kinda awkward to get right.
As for using it for those things it's prolly better to just do this now since it's so strong.

 

[Zork]

That sure is a lot of shield damage. Thanks.

But that's when you actually hit their shield with an egg. I'm talking about when they are in the air coming down or while you are juggling them, is down B a good option then? Or are there way better options?

Oh and yeah that's probably the picture I remember.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I'd say the angles are like Brawl's except the neutral angle and the far angle are more downward, and that there are more paths in between them.

 

[Sinister Slush]

That sure is a lot of shield damage. Thanks.

But that's when you actually hit their shield with an egg.

it's demonstrating that even the small amount of shield damage an egg does coupled with DownB breaks it. So it can be any move outside of prolly weak under 5% damage moves like jab and such.

 

[Delta-cod]

As for eggs yeah the arcs are different, if comparing to brawl it definitely doesn't go as far, but it can go higher and lower I believe.

Ahh, this was the description I was looking for when I made that post. They definitely feel lower in general, which is awesome, I think.

 

[Calvonta]

I've been lurking these boards for a small time and it's kind of a letdown there's not that many questions that generate on this thread.

Yoshi is pretty weird to learn in this game and it's my first time trying to pick him up. Any tips on how to practice with him/Basic strat bread and butter things I need to know? It sounds kinda vague but I only mean 2 or 3 big things that are apart of his game.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

His eggs go just as far tbh, but since they go so much lower they hit the ground before max distance lol.

And for cal, some things to learn are the ranges of your moves. Seems like a no brainer but our punish game is still really important and having a shield makes it easier to do.

Learn your egg angles because now they have followup potential and can be used as an aggressive zoning tool instead of just a passive one.

Learn some of our airdodge frame traps. Basic ones are how airdodging uair or fair can lead to us getting a free nair.

Learn our -3 hit strings. We have a bunch of themdepending on percent. Jab 1 (sometimes double jab), soft hit nair, uptilt and possibly even dash attack have some true combo followups

Learning how to recover is important but not that complicated.

Breverse egglay is now essential to know now that djc egglay is gone (technically you can djc all your other specials)

Uhh idk that's all that comes to mind off the top

 

[Omni]

Does ground grab release actually combo into jab?

 

[Sinister Slush]

We do not know the frame data yet of course for how long they're in the ground release stun but it appears we do have that combo since our Jab is still incredibly fast and looks like it comes out on frame 3.

 

[Omni]

It can be easily tested. Use two controllers. Hold Z on the grabbed. Thengrab release pummel spam on the other.

I highly doubt it combos like Bowser's in Brawl. Getting a free jab from pummel with Yoshi would be super OP

 

[Sinister Slush]

I bought the game on release half off for winning my tournament but have not ripped the plastic off it cause I don't want to play it till I have a GC adapter which Gamestops restock on everywhere I believe Monday.

Otherwise I'd be like Yika sorta outside of all the frame data stuff but on much smaller things. There's at least 8 things I wanna test including this one, but for now until someone else brings up we can/can't I'll assume we possibly can get a jab on them cause Jab with hitbox that comes out on frame 3.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

The opponent can shield. What is interesting is that Mario's jab beats out Yoshi's if Yoshi releases and they trade if Mario releases. I think the released opponent might have a frame advantage or something. I'd test more but I don't have much free time today.

 

[Professor Oats]

So, after shorthop up air, I am occasionally hitting with nair on the way down, on a flat floor. It only seems to work for me 30% of the time though. Seems like it's a precise timing thing. Sometimes the foot comes out, sometimes the noise comes out but not the foot, sometimes nothing comes out. Does anyone have a good brain for frame counting, or does anyone know the window of timing for that? Because that seems like an incredible tool, if they're landing and try to dodge that up air, they're all sorts of screwed.

I've also gotten two up airs in a shorthop, which seems not very practical but really cool. Landing it much more rarely than up air into nair.

Anyone else experienced this, or has some advice/thoughts on it?

 

[Delta-cod]

The timing is probably tight, and is most likely dependent on how soon you start the Uair from your jump. It's also important that you start the second aerial quickly after the end of the first Uair.