Hierarchies of Power: The Ganon Community Tier List! (Updated October 8th 2017)

[Opana]

If anything I should be at Apex, I stay somewhat regional really since I'm dependent on rides.

He fought his link over his sheik? If so I'm a lot less impressed tbh, I agree a tier is good though from what I've heard and know.

Also I did fairly well, 33rd out of 150+ with a ton of big names present. I actually could've placed higher man, I knew a dair was coming but didn't react in time I guess, dubs pushed things back tbf so I wanna tired john lol. He was solid though, and I don't mind losing to solid players.

EDIT

25th out of 157!

Edit 2: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:Pelca

I didn't expect to find anything on him honestly, but yeah I lost 2-1 to him and 2-0 to Marss.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I've always felt he was at LEAST A-tier even before, Rice is solid. To through some shade at this though, that was Tre's Link lol

In other news:

https://youtu.be/m6ugVxTMwfc

Ray_Kalm thems fighting words

I'm happy for him. He seems like a good player. I'm going to GOML in two weeks, the tournament is pretty stacked.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Deotay has some good results to show in a tough region:

1.) 2nd/33 Notables: FTFAL, IceArrow
2.) 5th/28 (Customs) Notables: K.I.D. Goggles, San, PikaPika
3.) 4th/27 (Customs) Notables: K.I.D. Goggles, PikaPika
4.) 3rd/28 (Customs) Notables: K.I.D. Goggles, PikaPika
5.) 4th/26 Notables: K.I.D. Goggles, PikaPika, Wedge
6.) 7h/50 Notables: San, K.I.D. Goggles, Cassius
7.) 9th/62 Notables: San, K.I.D. Goggles, PikaPika
8.) 5th/60 Notables: PikaPika
9.) 9th/55 Notables: Goggles, San, PikaPika

 

[Heavesngate6]

After finally catching up with the forum. I think I'm ready to be placed some where on the tier list.

For sure I could be high D-tier or at least at the bottom of C. Most of my results come from one local but PR members do attend even though i've only played one of them and got bopped by his zelda.

heres a set from two weeks ago where i got 13th tied http://challonge.com/Sm4shsingles050916

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM3sz-ASP84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVm64YjQ21c

thats the only singles set i have of my ganon sadly and everything else are from doubles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x2OgSvPyXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUW0Ou7243M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyalIOq6img
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxCDXzhNHnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmmf6Gm2H1c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXldoTgEZuk

and yes i did misspell my name.

 

[Opana]

Curious what it'd take to move up to S tier, I feel like I'm there but I'd like to know what is holding me back from progressing on this list if that's cool. Aimed at a2 but if someone else has a good understanding of why lmk.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You just gotta pull up your ability to be fully determined a bit more.

Notice how the rest of the S tier cast are confident about their ability to play their best.

 

[Opana]

Alright that's fair, I mean I'm always determined but at the same time my confidence is really bad and it does affect me.

I'll try working on that though

 

[Koskinator]

Just be more like ray zach







Press down b more

 

[Ray_Kalm]

A2ZOMG granted if Koskinator attends a few more tournaments and places well, I think you should bump him up to highest A tier or lowest S tier.

I like the diversity in playstyles of different Ganons, and players like EvilGoku and Koskinator are very unique in playstyle, playstyles which can help them beat very tough foes.

And I was told EvilGoku doesn't use Ganon in tournaments anymore, but, in terms of just his skills, after playing him in dubs I'd put him in the middle of A.

 

[Opana]

After I win Apex can I be in S

 

[Koskinator]

How the **** do you attened nationals lol hitch hike there and tent it outside the venue and live on bread and water

 

[A2ZOMG]

Gungnir's recent performance at Nagobura, a fairly small but very stacked Japanese tournament (including the top Lucas and another phenomenal Mega Man player) has warranted him moving up.

A tier has shifted around a bit largely due to perceived activity.

 

[Opana]

What kind of percieved activity

Also I'm glad to see Gungnir back.

 

[Vermanubis]

Speaking of which, there're a few things I think are worth addressing in A and S.

In A, to be fair, I think Opana deserves to be higher than Kosk and Adom. Adom we all know is good, but as far as I know, the only notable win I know of is against that Finnish Lucario. Kosk has no notable wins offline. Opana's done a great job offline, and has actually beaten good players like Gunblade.

Secondly, like I was saying regarding Gungnir in the discord: I don't think a single win after a year of inactivity justifies the current rearrangement. I know you argued that it's really not important, A2, but it still does, even if not intended, send a biased message. Now, don't think I'm giving you hell: we all have biases and that's why this is an open forum so we can all voice our POVs and balance each others' biases out. Irrespective of how the rearrangement affects my position, I don't think a single win justifies a jump like that in such a fiercely contested tier. With Pon having done work recently, and my consistent placings at 2nd, beating known high-quality players, Gungnir spiking up makes one curious about the particular considerations made in the decision. Reputable though Taiheita may be, this is a case of something I've always cautioned against: name recognition alone. We're assuming the tournament was stacked, and that Gungnir beat only phenomenal players.

Lastly, I'd be in favor of doing a monthly/bi-monthly change. Though it's your project primarily, A2, I think two things would really make the list even more superb: punctuation and more people willing to speak up on their own behalf and those of others. As it stands, and as we've seen, changes on a whim are subject to a bit of caprice, and it, more often than not, ends up being contested, and something ends up being changed back. Though I trust your assessments, a combination of pressure from us and your own biases (again, don't take that as a hit -- we all have them, it's just how it is) makes it difficult to manage such a project solo, or at least without some kind of tangible process.

 

[Opana]

A lot of times I want to speak up but I end up deciding not to for whatever reason. You pretty much expressed my thoughts though Verm, in a much better way than I could have too lol.

 

[adom4]

Speaking of which, there're a few things I think are worth addressing in A and S.

In A, to be fair, I think Opana deserves to be higher than Kosk and Adom. Adom we all know is good, but as far as I know, the only notable win I know of is against that Finnish Lucario. Kosk has no notable wins offline. Opana's done a great job offline, and has actually beaten good players like Gunblade.

Secondly, like I was saying regarding Gungnir in the discord: I don't think a single win after a year of inactivity justifies the current rearrangement. I know you argued that it's really not important, A2, but it still does, even if not intended, send a biased message. Now, don't think I'm giving you hell: we all have biases and that's why this is an open forum so we can all voice our POVs and balance each others' biases out. Irrespective of how the rearrangement affects my position, I don't think a single win justifies a jump like that in such a fiercely contested tier. With Pon having done work recently, and my consistent placings at 2nd, beating known high-quality players, Gungnir spiking up makes one curious about the particular considerations made in the decision. Reputable though Taiheita may be, this is a case of something I've always cautioned against: name recognition alone. We're assuming the tournament was stacked, and that Gungnir beat only phenomenal players.

Lastly, I'd be in favor of doing a monthly/bi-monthly change. Though it's your project primarily, A2, I think two things would really make the list even more superb: punctuation and more people willing to speak up on their own behalf and those of others. As it stands, and as we've seen, changes on a whim are subject to a bit of caprice, and it, more often than not, ends up being contested, and something ends up being changed back. Though I trust your assessments, a combination of pressure from us and your own biases (again, don't take that as a hit -- we all have them, it's just how it is) makes it difficult to manage such a project solo, or at least without some kind of tangible process.

Well i do have regional johns at least lol.
It seems pretty fair though.

 

[Opana]

I wouldn't mind you being over me as much Adom, I think to be as high as Kosk currently is though you should have some solid results. And I know Kosk is good, he gives me the business online, but offline in a tourney setting is a much different situation imo.

 

[adom4]

I wouldn't mind you being over me as much Adom, I think to be as high as Kosk currently is though you should have some solid results. And I know Kosk is good, he gives me the business online, but offline in a tourney setting is a much different situation imo.

Kosk will move in august to a city closer to the locals, then we can all fly to canada and fight to the death for the top A spot
Play some smash brothers.

 

[Vermanubis]

You totally do have regional johns. I know the strug myself. Getting dinged because you can't attend anything and no one good is within hours of you sucks. You have it worse than I do, even.

In any case, I just wanted to say those things. I could go on about S tier, but by its nature, it's going to be all over the place. Again, this isn't me demanding my version be instantiated, rather, this is just my opinion of an ideal S-tier at the moment. I hope no one will take this as me trying to undermine the work they've put in. This is a reflection of my working knowledge of who these people have beaten/how they've performed in tournament

1. Ganonthebeast -- Reason: consistently beats good players; is active. Admittedly lacks the competition many of us have, but his wins are still 100% legitimate.

2. Pon -- Reason: has done some excellent work in Japan recently. Only qualm is that I don't think he's beaten anyone aside from Salena, who, from the vid I saw, didn't really seem to play like a top player. But in his sets against, say, Umeki, it's evident that he's more than capable of putting out more.

Two-way tie at 3rd: Gungnir and Kalm. -- Reason: Gungnir and Kalm are the inverse of each other. Kalm consistently gets good placings, but, as far as I know (and please, correct me if I'm wrong! I'm not trying to shaft Kalm here if he really has beaten good players and I just don't know about it) Kalm, in recent memory, hasn't taken a set from anyone on his PR. This is mostly just going off of VODs, so I really want to be corrected if I'm wrong. Gungnir has no results, but the few results he does have are, ostensibly, impressive and worth considering.

And I won't comment on myself or where I belong. All I can say is that I do consistently beat my region's best players in a variety of MUs.

 

[adom4]

You totally do have regional johns. I know the strug myself. Getting dinged because you can't attend anything and no one good is within hours of you sucks. You have it worse than I do, even.

In any case, I just wanted to say those things. I could go on about S tier, but by its nature, it's going to be all over the place. Again, this isn't me demanding my version be instantiated, rather, this is just my opinion of an ideal S-tier at the moment. I hope no one will take this as me trying to undermine the work they've put in. This is a reflection of my working knowledge of who these people have beaten/how they've performed in tournament

1. Ganonthebeast -- Reason: consistently beats good players; is active. Admittedly lacks the competition many of us have, but his wins are still 100% legitimate.

2. Pon -- Reason: has done some excellent work in Japan recently. Only qualm is that I don't think he's beaten anyone aside from Salena, who, from the vid I saw, didn't really seem to play like a top player. But in his sets against, say, Kie, it's evident that he's more than capable of putting out more.

Two-way tie at 3rd: Gungnir and Kalm. -- Reason: Gungnir and Kalm are the inverse of each other. Kalm consistently gets good placings, but, as far as I know (and please, correct me if I'm wrong! I'm not trying to shaft Kalm here if he really has beaten good players and I just don't know about it) Kalm, in recent memory, hasn't taken a set from anyone on his PR. This is mostly just going off of VODs, so I really want to be corrected if I'm wrong. Gungnir has no results, but the few results he does have are, ostensibly, impressive and worth considering.

And I won't comment on myself or where I belong. All I can say is that I do consistently beat my region's best players in a variety of MUs.

He took a set of Chrim foish about a month ago from what i remember.
EDIT: also when i was at germany i did take a set off a Yoshi who eventually finished 7th.

 

[Vermanubis]

Good to know!

I might change things up a bit to put Kalm above Pon. Now that I'm rewatching Pon's vids, I'd feel better with the two Nippon Dorfs being at the bottom. Did Pon do something recently that I missed? I know he beat Salena in a tourney before Genesis, but judging from these vids, I'd say Kalm's done more than he has.

 

[Opana]

S
Ray Kalm
Pon
GanonTheBeast
Vermanubis/Gungnir

A
Opana/Adom
Rice/Matt Hazard
Swoops
Deotay
Koskinator
Potetchi
ZIGMA/Papaya
A2ZOMG

My personal opinion on A and S. I think Ray has a strong showing anytime there is footage accompanied by solid placings.

Pon has solid results overall in one of the strongest regions.

Gtb has proven himself at this point, his region is probably underrated as Skorpio placed top eight at Combo Breaker. Even if we're not beating super notables though, being consistent with Ganon is very respectable because as they learn the MU it gets much harder.

Verm I think you and Gungnir have potential to rise, both extremely solid and do well when you attend, just a matter of going to more things imo.

Only thing I wanna touch on in A, I think A2 is real solid and can reasonably be put at the bottom of A. I think he puts up an effective defense and makes smart decisions. On the other hand I haven't heard anything from DLA.

EDIT: Added Deotay in A too

 

[LoveExpert]

EDIT: Added Deotay in A too

Edit, added loveexpert to S tier

 

[Koskinator]

I sort of have region johns, I did come in 9th at the one tourney I went to and came 5th in doubles with a melee player as my partner. But put adom and opana above me lol this tier list has always been sort of meh to me anyways

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Changing things a bit to Opana's list, which I think is pretty good. This is how I would put A tier.

A Tier
Opana/Adom
Rice
Deotay
Koskinator
Swoops
LoveExpert
Matt Hazard
Potetchi
ZIGMA/Papaya
A2ZOMG

In regards to taking wins off of PR members Vermanubis , I took sets off my #1, #4, #7, #9, and #10 in tournament. I also took sets off of PR members #1, #8, and others on the PR last year.

I would list S tier as below, considering everything I know of the five of us at the moment.

S Tier
Ray Kalm

Pon - Has shown solid fundamentals and has decent placements. His activity is also good.

GanonTheBeast - Always places well, and placed well in a few good stacked tournaments. Is also very active, and currently #2 on his PR as solo Ganon. Definitely the #1 Ganon in the States.

Gungnir - Like Pon, Gungnir has solid fundamentals and gameplay, and although he hasn't been to much tournaments, he places very high whenever he does attend in a very tough region (as we all know by now, he took a tournament set off of the best Lucas, who, in itself, is a very hard match-up for us to deal with). I would put him above GanonTheBeast if he shows the same solid results in future events, and if he attends more tournaments. I don't think he's ranked on any PR as of yet.

Vermanubis - Solid skills and very good placings in the few tournaments he has attended. Along with Gungnir, Verm is the only other S tier Ganon who hasn't attended a regional or major. If Verm was to (and did well) I'd then consider moving him up from last spot in S tier.

Speaking of which A2ZOMG I think a solid criteria to be put in S tier would be everything you have in the OP plus at the very least to attend one major or regional at least once a year, and to make it out of your respective pools. So, in that case, I would bring Gungnir and Vermanubis down towards the top two of A tier.

The whole point of S tier is the prove yourself and go out travelling to big tournaments to the best of your ability and to do well to maintain your position. If you are very keen to keep the S position, the above should be done.

 

[DLA]

On the other hand I haven't heard anything from DLA.

I'm still alive and stomping

http://e2c.challonge.com/utoszb7m/standings

http://e2c.challonge.com/6tifoeip/standings

http://e2c.challonge.com/4ei1cve0/standings

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

I'm still alive and stomping

http://e2c.challonge.com/utoszb7m/standings

http://e2c.challonge.com/6tifoeip/standings

http://e2c.challonge.com/4ei1cve0/standings

The first one is amateur brackets, do you still use solo dorf?

 

[DLA]

The first one is amateur brackets, do you still use solo dorf?

Yup first one's amateur bracket. But 1st's gotta count for something! This weekly's fairly difficult.

And yes I'm still 100% Real Gerudo.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Yup first one's amateur bracket. But 1st's gotta count for something! This weekly's fairly difficult.

And yes I'm still 100% Real Gerudo.

Cool, you should post this in the tournament results thread.

Btw zero just released some good Ganon gameplay and he mentioned RayKalm in the video at 15:00-16:00 he thinks Ray Kalm was scary to play. He even says ganon is far from the worst

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...93FA3ebV2wwyjyF3g&sig2=osbT2Lvtf03BL3Ap84FwRA

 

[adom4]

I sort of have region johns, I did come in 9th at the one tourney I went to and came 5th in doubles with a melee player as my partner. But put adom and opana above me lol this tier list has always been sort of meh to me anyways

You should be in C tier for Canada.

 

[Opana]

K tier(Sort of Meh Overlords)
Koskinator
Garioshi

 

[adom4]

K tier(Sort of Meh Overlords)
Koskinator
Garioshi

You should also be in C tier for Cloud & Corrin, we can put Gunblade there too.

 

[Vermanubis]

Cool, you should post this in the tournament results thread.

Btw zero just released some good Ganon gameplay and he mentioned RayKalm in the video at 15:00-16:00 he thinks Ray Kalm was scary to play. He even says ganon is far from the worst

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7oIGnxYgk4&ved=0ahUKEwiz3sb5oZXNAhXF6YMKHQniDFEQtwIIHjAB&usg=AFQjCNFTewjypD3y693FA3ebV2wwyjyF3g&sig2=osbT2Lvtf03BL3Ap84FwRA

Not to go too off topic, but Ganon's definitely pretty close to the worst under ideal circumstances. I think anyone's first time playing Ganon leads them to similar conclusions as Zero, but they soon find out if they study the MU that things aren't quite that way.

 

[Opana]

I used to think Ganon was at the bottom of mid tier lol

 

[adom4]

I used to think Ganon was at the bottom of mid tier lol

I'd say he was around there early on, but a lot of characters just got buffed harder than we did, still this Ganon is in a much much better spot, mostly because all of the top tiers got weaker as well.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Adom is spot on with his assessment.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Advocating me in A tier for my Ganon results is a huge stretch when my only *strictly* notable tournament wins with Ganon, were in low tiers. Granted, Djay and K9 are known to be very very good players in my stacked region, and me beating Djay's Charizard and taking a game off K9's Lucina most certainly wouldn't have happened if I weren't competent.

In normal tournament settings however, I have much to prove. So in terms of planned edits to the tier list, me moving to the bottom of A tier is extremely low priority for me internally, when I personally assess my own flaws and legitimacy of my results. I haven't achieved the consistency I believe represents an A tier Ganon player.

(Will get back to stuff later, a lot of good points)

 

[LoveExpert]

Changing things a bit to Opana's list, which I think is pretty good. This is how I would put A tier.

A Tier
Opana/Adom
Rice
Deotay
Koskinator
Swoops
LoveExpert
Matt Hazard
Potetchi
ZIGMA/Papaya
A2ZOMG

holy hell, i was thinking someday to be near the bottom, damn, never knew you would place me so high

 

[Xinc]

Gungnir's recent performance at Nagobura, a fairly small but very stacked Japanese tournament (including the top Lucas and another phenomenal Mega Man player) has warranted him moving up.

A tier has shifted around a bit largely due to perceived activity.

Any footage?

 

[LoveExpert]

School just ended for me today so ill be able to switch my focus primarily on smash and not random **** im going to forget in 3 weeks lmao