Hierarchies of Power: The Ganon Community Tier List! (Updated October 8th 2017)

[Opana]

School just ended for me today so ill be able to switch my focus primarily on smash and not random **** im going to forget in 3 weeks lmao

I want you to body me

 

[LoveExpert]

I already have nerd

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vermanubis the primary thing I will take to heart is considering monthly tier list updates to encourage more scheduled discussion of everyone's progress. At the moment I'm not too willing to change anything else right now, but perhaps next month we'll have that information and more to consider. Given the relatively large size of our community, I believe a monthly scheduled update can work very well (something I would not have considered otherwise with fewer voices to call from).

So henceforth I will update the tier list on the second Saturday of future months (excepting this one), the critical time to make your case being one week prior.

Next scheduled hard update would then be July 9th.

 

[Koskinator]

Oooo **** zach stayin under kosk till july 9th ooo that a2 justice system burns dont it ooooo it hurtssss

 

[Opana]

A2 has roasted me harder than anyone else in this community, gonna have to prove myself(or prove myself more) then smh.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm fine with the once a month update.

I'll share my opinion in a very blunt fashion of what I see of the this list in the near future.

If Koskinator and Adom attend more tournaments, and if they place well, I feel that they have the potential to surpass Vermanubis, or perhaps Vermanubis could drop a tier (he also told me that he has been very inactive lately, getting kicked out of his PR). Similarly for Opana, if Opana sticks with Ganon. Note that Kosk, Opana, and Adom all attended nationals or big regionals and placed very well, while Gungnir and Vermanubis have yet to attend a single one. Attending big tournaments is something very vital for a S tier placing (as I've mentioned in my previous post, at least one commendable tournament a year and making it out of pools should be a requirement).

Koskinator and Opana have said they have plans to further their evil agenda, not entirely sure if adom4 plans on travelling again anytime soon.

Based on my observance of just skill factor alone of the four mentioned above, I'll rate them something like this:
1 - Koskinator/Vermanubis
2 - Adom/Opana

Gungnir could rise above Pon if he attends a regional, and if he places well. GanonTheBeast could drop since he hasn't been as active in bigger tournaments lately (he isn't attending the current Splash series), and I haven't heard much about his locals either.

So in the upcoming months, I see S and A tier to look like this potentially:
Ray Kalm
Pon
GanonTheBeast
Gungnir (only if he attends more tournaments, and meets the above criteria)

We are all close and similar with a combination of skill and results I would say.

A tier
Opana
Vermanubis
Adom4
Koskinator
Deotay

Good results, and strong players.

And also, Pon is attending another big tournament (possibly the biggest in Japan this year) during July 20~21 Saturday-Sunday. Let's cheer him on then.

That's my input for now.

 

[Opana]

People are pushing me towards Ike lmfao I need to get back on track!

I have high aspirations as a Ganon main, Idc if I get recognition with any other character at this point lol I just gotta stick to this path. I'm gonna do my best to grind a ton before Apex weekend, hoping I don't disappoint.

Btw I actually don't mind Kosk being over me too much, Adom either because I know they're both very good.

 

[adom4]

I am planning to travel more once i finish with school, i will go to syndicate in september (European national, about 250 people).

 

[Opana]

Come to my weekly though

 

[adom4]

Come to my weekly though

Come to discord though

 

[Opana]

My weekly is cheaper sir

 

[adom4]

My weekly is cheaper sir

Lemme guess, your weekly is free right? :^)

 

[Vermanubis]

Given that Gungnir's remained in S indefinitely in spite of complete inactivity, I admit I'd object to being dropped to A, especially only being a few months away from a 2nd placing where I beat the top half of our PR. I think the difficulty of travelling should be considered as well, for folks such as Adom, myself and anyone else to whom travelling is a major commitment.

In reality, it's not a big deal, but I don't think those of us who lack the good fortune of others to attend multiple events and have majors be within driving distance should be penalized when we've demonstrated adequate effort and results. I know it's tough to gauge with sparse data, but I think that a drop in tier would be justified only after maybe a full year of inactivity, with Gungnir as the standard, having been inactive for about that long before facing a demotion.

 

[Opana]

I gotta say I missed that part, I think Verm is still gonna be a solid s tier for awhile, if not the entirety of this lost because I feel he plays very well to dorf's strengths. With having solid results, recent results at that, I don't see him really dropping unless multiple people randomly jump up to S because of perceived changes :^).

I know it's not a big deal but to be innaccurately placed or moved because of w/e reason makes you feel like the work you've put in doesn't mean as much as you thought, at least I feel that way tbh. I don't feel it means as much the lower you are on the list but towards the top each spot means more.

And as I said I don't mind either two being above me, but I don't see what has recently changed to warrant it tbh. And I imagine Verm would feel similarly, since he's been putting in a lot of work and it shows to a lot of people.

 

[Vermanubis]

I gotta say I missed that part, I think Verm is still gonna be a solid s tier for awhile, if not the entirety of this lost because I feel he plays very well to dorf's strengths. With having solid results, recent results at that, I don't see him really dropping unless multiple people randomly jump up to S because of perceived changes :^).

I know it's not a big deal but to be innaccurately placed or moved because of w/e reason makes you feel like the work you've put in doesn't mean as much as you thought, at least I feel that way tbh. I don't feel it means as much the lower you are on the list but towards the top each spot means more.

And as I said I don't mind either two being above me, but I don't see what has recently changed to warrant it tbh. And I imagine Verm would feel similarly, since he's been putting in a lot of work and it shows to a lot of people.

Thanks, Opa. And like I said, it really isn't a big deal. However, I think it <is> important to maintain as much accuracy at the top spots for the reason you mentioned: though the data is rarely directly comparable from Dorf to Dorf, in the case of Kosk, Adom and Gungnir, it doesn't feel right that you've made the effort to kick ass at your tourneys to be overtaken by two, while excellent players, players whose data just doesn't match yours.

 

[Koskinator]

Hey guys
Verm thinks im excellent
:D

 

[jmanup85]

I gotta say I agree with Verm that if Gungnir stays in S tier despite inactivity, then he should too. And Gungnir was "inactive" even longer than Verm was. Overall I believe that the S tier is pretty much on the money right now. Then again I'm but a lowly C tier (that can beat everyone on higher tiers than me) so what do I know?

 

[Koskinator]

Shut up joel you cant beat me you lowly lowly c tier scum

 

[jmanup85]

Shut up joel you cant beat me you lowly lowly c tier scum

Fite me irl u dweeb. Then after fite me in smash u nerd

 

[Koskinator]

Joel you couldn't beat ur own ****

 

[HeavyLobster]

Joel you couldn't beat ur own ****

That's what happens when you get to be as ancient as he is.

 

[Opana]

That's what happens when you get to be as ancient as he is.

Jmandown85

 

[jmanup85]

Jmandown85

Typed from his Obamaphone

 

[Opana]

*Opanaphone

 

[randomguy1235]

Hey guys, this is a match from my local/weekly. I'd appreciate it if anyone could give their impressions or rank me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK_MRHjflQc

 

[Litany]

What would be considered good enough tournament results to get myself into B-tier (e.g. top 8 out of 32, top 4 out of 64, etc.)? I want to set a goal for myself in the future.

 

[P2Koyz]

Hello everybody - in light of recent placings and whatnot, I was considering my viability to being bumped to B tier. The reason behind this is - I have been doing much better at my locals and have defeated more top players. I also was PR'ed #1 at my local in the area in which I live. I also was able to take a local while only losing one game the entire time. Ive won two of my locals and gotten second only once, and when it comes to state-wide tournaments I almost always get top 15, with my normal ranking being 9th or 13th when I go. I posted this in the conquest a while ago, but here are some brackets for reference. http://ehgaming.challonge.com/c52s4s (I would also like to note in the tournament I defeated OTIS, a very good ROB player )http://ehgaming.challonge.com/c47s4s http://ehgaming.challonge.com/c42s4s (Note that back then my name used to be P2Koyz. Also not I beat Z2G in this tournament, PR'ed 2nd best in the state) Here is my PPA for the state-wide tournaments ALONE, which would be MUCH higher if it included other locals (The reason it doesn't is because I havent told the creator in charge of this list yet my results - I will for the actual PR though which has yet to come out) https://docs.google.com/document/d/11WBjvuwL9ulPMlGZzehVD7VcHqth--eUde1zaSpweoE/edit?pref=2&pli=1(edited)
Google DocsWI Sm4sh Summer 2016 PPA Stats

I would also like to point to my locals top 5 PR

Oconomowoc Smash 4 Power Rankings
May 2016
#1 IGITUR & YokonTheSage (28 points)
#3 Froxie (25 points)
#4 L1on (21 points)
#5 Chewed & TyDye (19 points)
#7 Fatz (15 points)
#8 SkullertX (13 points)
#9 Linktest (11 points)
#10 Strucep (8 points)

Now In reality I am not at a tie for first with igitur - as i have beaten him twice before and won 2 more times than him - but also the creator has yet to add those results in, which he said he will do later.

Some of the top players I have beaten include Z2G, the second best player in Wisconsin, OTIS, a very skilled ROB player who has been 4th on the pr and in honorable mentions currently. I have also beaten lots of other PR'ed players in MM outside of bracket.

Also a very good tournament for me http://amke2016.challonge.com/s4

I have also played almost all the notable ganons in the discord, and I think compared to other ganons I do play with a skill level of B tier, and therefore I think its fair that I would get that placement.

I would greatly appreciate the movement to B tier, but I trust the opinion of others more than myself.

 

[LoveExpert]

Can I be SS tier now?

 

[adom4]

Can I be SS tier now?

Are you trying to trigger me or what?

 

[LoveExpert]

depends, are you triggered?

 

[Koskinator]

I like the part that says kosk could be the best

 

[djk7877]

How to take part in this tier list ?
I would like to test my level and integrate myself in this group.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How to take part in this tier list ?
I would like to test my level and integrate myself in this group.

Well the best way to take part is to actually have videos available to advocate for your skill level.

A lot of us however are available on Discord. Look up Smashcord.

 

[djk7877]

Ok nice thanks

 

[Opana]

Within a week I've taken Mister Eric, John Numbers, Riz, and Gunblade(beat in a close set vs Cloud) to game 3, will you guys sponsor me pls thx

Really though Idk how you'd take it it but I wanted to post it here as I think it's relevant to my placing.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm all for you being pushed into the bottom of S, Opa.

On another topic, we should definitely work out inactivity periods. We were discussing it on the discord last night. We need to consider a balance between being equitable to those in remote regions, and those who regularly attend tournaments. I'm of the opinion that an entire drop in tier is justified after 6 months of complete inactivity, and a year of offline inactivity.

Kalm mentioned that a year is a long time -- and it is. But I feel a drop in tier is justified when the meta's sufficiently developed to a point where the person in question no longer qualifies for a given skill group. That being said, I think 6 months of Gungnir-like inactivity warrant a demotion. If the person in question stays active (ladder, video output, community involvement, etc.) and demonstrates pace with the current meta, I think the inactivity grace period should be extended.

I say this not only for my sake, because it is indeed in my own interest to argue as such, but for people such as adom4 who need not travel only to different states to compete, but different countries. I think that being shifted to the bottom of a given tier's a fair penalty for extended inactivity within these timeframes, especially if the person in question makes an effort to remain active in spite of scarce opportunities to attend tournaments.

Gungnir also has a role in my thinking, too. I think we'd have all been remiss -- and I think we all knew it -- to put Gungnir outside of S on a technicality alone.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

There should be no grace period, it doesn't matter how involved you are with the community.

If you are inactive for a period of more than three months, you should be dropped accordingly. Players are dropped from rankings such as PRS, Smash Rankings, and Anther's ladder ranking for similar reasons.

This is a tier list mainly about tournament performance and results.

 

[Opana]

I don't think either method is really wrong tbh, iirc ZeRo held the 0 spot on the socal pr despite being inactive but at the same time that may effect the pgr. I think it's just a matter of community opinion really.

 

[Vermanubis]

There should be no grace period, it doesn't matter how involved you are with the community.

If you are inactive for a period of more than three months, you should be dropped accordingly. Players are dropped from rankings such as PRS, Smash Rankings, and Anther's ladder ranking for similar reasons.

This is a tier list mainly about tournament performance and results.

A fair point about PRs. But then we have to determine what our objective is: a list based on overall skill, or a more PR-like ranking where those potentially of equal skill are ranked lower based on activity alone.

Though, I will point out that if we're to be faithful to the PR style, we should simply remove people for inactivity rather than fight over logistics. People are removed from PRs for inactivity; not demoted. I think removal is preferable to demotion because of any potential drama it may avoid, again, if we're to be consistent with the PR style.

I personally think a hybrid would be good. Can't rank on skill alone, but we also don't want Ganons who never beat anyone worthwhile in the upper strata just because they're more active than others.

 

[mgleed]

A tier list is very different from a PR. I think of a player tier list like a character tier list--characters don't become intrinsically worse over time, but rather represent the strongest character relative to others, regardless of the size of the player base. A tier list is more or less a combination of theory, results, and metagame trends.

I think A2 has done a good job at achieving a proper tier list. I think that for a player tier list, activity would be more equivalent to the meta component of a character tier list. Let's use Vex Kasrani as an example--he was probably an S tier Ganon in his time, but since the game has evolved and other players have improved, he certainly wouldn't have that position today (but I think we could still place his Ganon in A tier because many of us were familiar with his playstyle, his competitiveness as a player, and footage of him still exists). I think 6 months of no play by a player is a reasonable time to drop a player due to inactivity, not remove them from the tier list completely. Or even just mark the player as inactive, I don't know.