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If you actually good at the game you would know that game just does not work at a high level. It's nearly impossible to kill anyone who knows what he's doing on most levels. Even if you ban all the bugs.
Yeah, I do know that. lol I have always maintained the opinion that if there was no pride in tournament matches, it wouldn't even be difficult to run away and collect health all game in alt form. That basically means every match turns into a stale mate unless someone gets out of alt form to shoot, and at that point it's all about sniping because any attempt to reduce someone's health, even on small stages, just results in them going to get more health. It's pretty comparable to barlw, honestly. lol There's just no way to punish people for mistakes. I remember I made a ruleset that banned a chunk of the stages and alt forms, but it never caught on because it was too late in the game's lifespan.
You pretty much covered the dumb bugs (mostly going through walls). I might be forgetting something though because I haven't played it since like 2008/2009 (man time flies).
The problem with the game is if you stay in your alt form (not ****ty ones like Kanden or whatever, but ones with good mobility like Samus/Trace/Sylux) and go for energy whenever you are remotely in danger it's really hard to kill anyone on most maps. Unless something extreme happens like everyone teaming you at once in a FFA (lol). Or there's Sylux's bomb triangles but good luck getting someone actually good with that. They should have had you take headshot damage while in alt form, or maybe 99 max energy IDK.
Taking extra damage would have been cool, but I think they should have just made them niche utility like Spire's. His was balanced very well. You couldn't just run away constantly with it, but you could use it to attack in certain close quarters or more importantly, climb walls to get to areas quicker. Even if alts like Sylux's take extra damage, they still give way too much of a positioning advantage.
Yeah that's why Samus was so good, right? Fast standard shots, strong homing missiles and fast alt.
I dunno, I wasn't super competitive just played with my cousins, it was damn fun at that level haha
I used Kanden (his alt was pretty good, I thought?)
Kanden's alt was pretty awful. Alt form tier list would probably be:
Samus
Trace
Sylux
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Kanden
Spire
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Noxus
Weavel
Sorry Weavel fanboys. Your greatest strength is weak as ****. lol
My actual tier list:
Trace
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Noxus
Samus
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Sylux
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Kanden
Spire
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Weavel
The main thing, as you may notice, is alt speed. If your character has a ****ty alt, it doesn't matter how good your weapon is (see: Spire, Kanden). Aside from that, Trace is the best 'cuz Imp, and Noxus and Samus can at least compete with SFing and Missiles doing big damage on a consistent basis. Noxus's alt was ultimately too slow and useless so if you ever got spawn trapped you basically lost, and Samus can't OHKO or freeze her opponents, so she would have to chase people down with Morph Ball or missiles, which was just not very reliable on some stages with a lot of health and corners to turn around, or places her alt couldn't reach easily because of its weight.
Lol. Top 5 maybe.
I was the top pure weavel for like a week before Greenbolt came out of retirement :3
But im bad at both MP:H and Melee, so I dont think that I count.
Oh and Vermanubis (the really good brawl ganon or w/e) was a top MP:H player for awhile too.
I won Sybot's last tourney, which I think was the last major tourney that actually finished, and it had pretty much all of the top players. I'm also pretty biased though. lol Verm was pretty bad. I made him d/c on random in a Spire ditto on Council Chamber. Yes, I remember these things. lol
I never saw a competitive Spire.
I was voted best Spire of '06 on GameFAQs. ;D
I never got to a high enough level of play that SF was a problem, could you explain what made it so good? XD
SF was good, but it was never too good. It was basically the only alternative to sniping at competitive levels.
Well, it basically allowed Noxus to freeze you ANYWHERE on the stage from any distance. The vertical axis of his charged judicator shot was infinite in range, so if you aimed down and aligned the plane of the shot with the opponent, it'd freeze 'em. It made spawn-killing an absolute joke to do, and if the stage had an imperialist, you essentially had to stay in alt form the entire time so you didn't get frozen from half the arena away and headshot. You had to spend 99% of the match running away, and it rendered LTs far beyond nonviable.
It's definitely not a mindless tactic, but it's definitely very easy to execute, even at higher levels of play. Even without the radar, the width of the range is pretty large, too. I mean, if you're Trace and you pick a stage that's mostly uneven ground, then it's not so bad. But it still turns every match into a war of attrition.
That's a complete myth. The width of a freeze was the size of a regular Jud shot (or at least I would presume that it is a Jud; maybe it's a custom width, but the point is it's as thin as most other bullets in the game). If you line up an SF and hit them, then move a tiny bit to the side and shoot again, you'll miss. The reason people feel like the size is larger is because you can hit the person anywhere on their body. People were pretty awful at dealing with SF anyway. The key was to constantly keep on a different height level. Most people just tried to fight it straight up, which is why freezing them was so easy. Playing with radar on didn't help, but obviously the game was campy enough even with radar on.
I look at it this way: You have sniping which is a OHKO if you headshot, and heavy damage for body shots. SDFing (Shadow Death Freezing, which is when you freeze someone and snipe them while they're still frozen) was only possible on Imp maps. It was a little easier to freeze someone than to snipe someone since you only had to body shot, but you also had to aim blindly and be perpendicular to them. With radar on and the opponent on the same level, you could just angle slightly up and aim towards the dot, but if they were above or below you, you were basically aiming off of pure instinct. Aiming up or down extremely fast was not reliable enough to make it equivalent to aiming right at someone. So you have Imping which is easier, but requires headshots. Then you have SFing which requires crazy aiming when they aren't level with you, and requires you to have an Imp or for the opponent to have 50% health. For the most part, they are on par with each other. The problem comes in with maps that don't have Imps, and Noxus's alt sucking. Noxus can't run away all game like Trace can, and if a map doesn't have an Imp, Noxus should really never get a kill on Trace (if he's running away and just getting health). In quarter or semi-finals of the last major tourney, I lost a game to Olimar's Trace on Incubation Vault because I spent the entire match chasing around his alt while he got health. I had him in the red zone pretty much the whole time, but all it took was one opportunity for him to get out of alt, headshot me, and I was losing. Then the process just repeated. I froze and damaged him a bunch, but he'd eventually find opportunities where he was far enough away to pop out of alt and pick me off. That's how the matchup is supposed to be played, and he won as a result. The last game I cped Sic Transit and won because once I got the Imp, I was able to play the same style he was. Instead of trying to stay on top of him, I was able to play from long-range and "snipe" him with freezes through walls and then poke out to Imp him when I hit a freeze. In GFs of the same tournament vs. Turismo's Samus, I went Noxus on Harvester because I had the Imp, and I went Trace on Sanctorus because I knew he would just Morph Ball the crap out of me if I tried to go Noxus.
Wouldn't of guessed other hunters besides Trace were viable in high-level play. Do you have a plethora of cool high-play video/tutorial links?
They're not. If you were playing for millions of dollars, you would basically have to go Trace. The only exception would be if you want to use Samus or Sylux's alt forms instead, and just pick up the sniper, but the benefits of their alts aren't worth it because Trace is the only one who can get the Imp on certain maps, and even on maps with the Imp (like High Ground), it's a million times more difficult for non-Trace players to get access to the Imp while Trace can just grab any affinity orb.
Sylux was the most common character, huh? Like usual, I have a knack for picking the top-tier characters without actually knowing they're top-tier (used space animals in Melee before I knew about competitive Smash and Metaknight day 1 of Brawl release).
Alinos Perch best stage! Sanctorus was really awkward and I didn't like the hallways, and Combat Hall lacked weapon options and was boring IMO. And neither of them were nice and spacious like Alinos Perch.
Sylux wasn't that good. People would pick Sylux for his good alt speed and use other characters' weapons. No one would use him competitively on a map without an Imp pickup.
Didn't know this game had a community lol....
It was that legit?
Nah, it was pretty fraudulent. The community was pretty cool, but the game was so whack that there's no way we should have been competing in it. lol I think the aiming with the stylus was actually really responsive and the character designs were interesting and unique, and those two things were at the core of what kept interest in the game for so long. It definitely could have been balanced better, but it definitely had some gaping flaws that would have required fairly massive overhauls.
The game was really fun when you weren't good
Then you get good and you realize it's bad
Maybe you shouldn't listen to me I'm just bitter
Nah, that's accurate. You're just bitter because it's the truth. lol[/collapse]