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Hidden talents with top smashers

EbAgItachi

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
68
Location
South Florida
what was your tag in halo?
I had like 20 throughout H2's lifetime, but once I started recording stuff the two main ones I used were: HNiC Rula and WTF is a ShMeh. I also went to MLG Orlando in 2006 (only for H2, didn't know there was such a thing as competitive Smash Bros. at the time). My team didn't make it very far into bracket (like 3rd round) but I got to top 16 in FFA. I was pretty content considering I was only 14 at the time and it was my first event ever.

:phone:
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
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Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
I was a top (like legitimately top 1) Metroid: Prime Hunters player.
Lol. Top 5 maybe.
I was the top pure weavel for like a week before Greenbolt came out of retirement :3
But im bad at both MP:H and Melee, so I dont think that I count.

Oh and Vermanubis (the really good brawl ganon or w/e) was a top MP:H player for awhile too.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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La Grande, Oregon
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Vermanubis
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It's been so long since I've even though about MP:H! Funny how I went from an irrefutably top-tier character to a character that's Brawl's analog to Weavel. I needed to spam those missiles though, 'cause as a dual-mode player, I couldn't have the kind of accuracy a lot of other players had. In my opinion, the only other option for a competitive DM player was a SFing Noxus, though, anyone could obviously work to a good degree.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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There were very few. I don't even remember the name of one who was really good--wait, yes I do: Goomba. Competitive play was 60% Sylux, 25% Samus, 10% Trace, >5% all the others combined (not including Noxus shadow freezers).

And yeah, the game wasn't really viable--there was just a sort of "code of honor" in that which players would find each other, and engage in a battle of target practice while jumping around in circles. If you used a fast-alt character, you could easily run away in even the smallest of stages. The only thing discouraging running away was the prospect of being ridiculed for it. Because of that, the only real stages people played on were Sanctorus, Alinos Perch, Combat Hall and a few others because the health spawn points were easy enough to guard that one couldn't always suffice by being chicken ****.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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Well, it basically allowed Noxus to freeze you ANYWHERE on the stage from any distance. The vertical axis of his charged judicator shot was infinite in range, so if you aimed down and aligned the plane of the shot with the opponent, it'd freeze 'em. It made spawn-killing an absolute joke to do, and if the stage had an imperialist, you essentially had to stay in alt form the entire time so you didn't get frozen from half the arena away and headshot. You had to spend 99% of the match running away, and it rendered LTs far beyond nonviable.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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It's definitely not a mindless tactic, but it's definitely very easy to execute, even at higher levels of play. Even without the radar, the width of the range is pretty large, too. I mean, if you're Trace and you pick a stage that's mostly uneven ground, then it's not so bad. But it still turns every match into a war of attrition.
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Wouldn't of guessed other hunters besides Trace were viable in high-level play. Do you have a plethora of cool high-play video/tutorial links?
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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Nah, wish I did lol. The only really decent video I can find easily is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ilOnvcSLxY

Inarguably the greatest Weavel player of his time or any. Also, Trace isn't all that good compared to Sylux or Samus, assuming you're on a stage where the imperialist is handy. His only real advantage is that his alt is really erratic and hard to follow.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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His shock coil's actually pretty awful. The coil really only works if you can keep a lock on someone, in which case, you can't jump around. So if you're a stationary target, fast-firing weapons like the volt driver will drill him before he can do much. So it's mostly his alt. He could also bomb jump with his alt, which made him the most maneuverable character. I'd have used Sylux, but as I mentioned earlier, I was dual-mode user, so I profoundly lacked the precision required to be good with things like the volt driver which meant I need Samus' homing missiles. I was the quintessential Spamus. :colorful:
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Sylux was the most common character, huh? Like usual, I have a knack for picking the top-tier characters without actually knowing they're top-tier (used space animals in Melee before I knew about competitive Smash and Metaknight day 1 of Brawl release).

Alinos Perch best stage! Sanctorus was really awkward and I didn't like the hallways, and Combat Hall lacked weapon options and was boring IMO. And neither of them were nice and spacious like Alinos Perch.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
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SOFA#941
I feel the need for shameless self-promotion :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33Utt5vDy0

but high level play in mp:h right before I quit (probably a year or two after Bones/Vermy) was dominated by Sylux and Trace. Very few good samuses left outside of Napalm.
Nyoxic was the only good Noxus left.

There was also a rise in Kanden players (i.e. that one decent mexican player who's name I always forget...)

and if you want to see an example of SF being abused, watch any of bones's games <.<
probably the best SFer of all time. lol.

SF wasn't a major problem though, the problem was that ther imperialist was a 1 shot kill and no other weapon could really stand up to it.
the character balance was also... just god awful.

Samus/Sylux/Trace>>SF Noxus>>>Kanden>Spire>>>Noxus>>>(non Greenbolt) Weavel :c

Oh and F5 Sin (F5in) was pretty good. He was the first person I ever played in tournament and he wrecked me. Not the best player out there, but he wasn't bad.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
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Messages
9,681
The game was really fun when you weren't good

Then you get good and you realize it's bad

Maybe you shouldn't listen to me I'm just bitter
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
Didn't know this game had a community lol....
It was that legit?
Yea the community was pretty serious from like... Late '07-'09
Then my clan was like the last active one in 2010-ish... And once all the clans died out, tourneys stopped happening and most of the community died.

And as star king said, the game was mad unbalanced and if you weren't using a top tier, it was pretty infuriating.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
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Maybe bad is too harsh a word but it could have been a lot better. It had so much potential lol. They should totally make a sequel for it.
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
The game wasn't bad. It was great... If you mained the top 3 (or were a decent SFer).

I still love the game, its actually got a lot of depth. The only problem is that at high level the gap in tiers is really defined and you need to play a certain way to be really successful.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
[collapse=Metroid Prime: Hunters Wall of Text]
If you actually good at the game you would know that game just does not work at a high level. It's nearly impossible to kill anyone who knows what he's doing on most levels. Even if you ban all the bugs.
Yeah, I do know that. lol I have always maintained the opinion that if there was no pride in tournament matches, it wouldn't even be difficult to run away and collect health all game in alt form. That basically means every match turns into a stale mate unless someone gets out of alt form to shoot, and at that point it's all about sniping because any attempt to reduce someone's health, even on small stages, just results in them going to get more health. It's pretty comparable to barlw, honestly. lol There's just no way to punish people for mistakes. I remember I made a ruleset that banned a chunk of the stages and alt forms, but it never caught on because it was too late in the game's lifespan.

You pretty much covered the dumb bugs (mostly going through walls). I might be forgetting something though because I haven't played it since like 2008/2009 (man time flies).

The problem with the game is if you stay in your alt form (not ****ty ones like Kanden or whatever, but ones with good mobility like Samus/Trace/Sylux) and go for energy whenever you are remotely in danger it's really hard to kill anyone on most maps. Unless something extreme happens like everyone teaming you at once in a FFA (lol). Or there's Sylux's bomb triangles but good luck getting someone actually good with that. They should have had you take headshot damage while in alt form, or maybe 99 max energy IDK.
Taking extra damage would have been cool, but I think they should have just made them niche utility like Spire's. His was balanced very well. You couldn't just run away constantly with it, but you could use it to attack in certain close quarters or more importantly, climb walls to get to areas quicker. Even if alts like Sylux's take extra damage, they still give way too much of a positioning advantage.

Yeah that's why Samus was so good, right? Fast standard shots, strong homing missiles and fast alt.

I dunno, I wasn't super competitive just played with my cousins, it was damn fun at that level haha
I used Kanden (his alt was pretty good, I thought?)
Kanden's alt was pretty awful. Alt form tier list would probably be:
Samus
Trace
Sylux
---
Kanden
Spire
---
Noxus
Weavel

Sorry Weavel fanboys. Your greatest strength is weak as ****. lol

My actual tier list:

Trace
---
Noxus
Samus
---
Sylux
---
Kanden
Spire
---
Weavel


The main thing, as you may notice, is alt speed. If your character has a ****ty alt, it doesn't matter how good your weapon is (see: Spire, Kanden). Aside from that, Trace is the best 'cuz Imp, and Noxus and Samus can at least compete with SFing and Missiles doing big damage on a consistent basis. Noxus's alt was ultimately too slow and useless so if you ever got spawn trapped you basically lost, and Samus can't OHKO or freeze her opponents, so she would have to chase people down with Morph Ball or missiles, which was just not very reliable on some stages with a lot of health and corners to turn around, or places her alt couldn't reach easily because of its weight.

Lol. Top 5 maybe.
I was the top pure weavel for like a week before Greenbolt came out of retirement :3
But im bad at both MP:H and Melee, so I dont think that I count.

Oh and Vermanubis (the really good brawl ganon or w/e) was a top MP:H player for awhile too.
I won Sybot's last tourney, which I think was the last major tourney that actually finished, and it had pretty much all of the top players. I'm also pretty biased though. lol Verm was pretty bad. I made him d/c on random in a Spire ditto on Council Chamber. Yes, I remember these things. lol

I never saw a competitive Spire.
I was voted best Spire of '06 on GameFAQs. ;D

I never got to a high enough level of play that SF was a problem, could you explain what made it so good? XD
SF was good, but it was never too good. It was basically the only alternative to sniping at competitive levels.

Well, it basically allowed Noxus to freeze you ANYWHERE on the stage from any distance. The vertical axis of his charged judicator shot was infinite in range, so if you aimed down and aligned the plane of the shot with the opponent, it'd freeze 'em. It made spawn-killing an absolute joke to do, and if the stage had an imperialist, you essentially had to stay in alt form the entire time so you didn't get frozen from half the arena away and headshot. You had to spend 99% of the match running away, and it rendered LTs far beyond nonviable.
It's definitely not a mindless tactic, but it's definitely very easy to execute, even at higher levels of play. Even without the radar, the width of the range is pretty large, too. I mean, if you're Trace and you pick a stage that's mostly uneven ground, then it's not so bad. But it still turns every match into a war of attrition.
That's a complete myth. The width of a freeze was the size of a regular Jud shot (or at least I would presume that it is a Jud; maybe it's a custom width, but the point is it's as thin as most other bullets in the game). If you line up an SF and hit them, then move a tiny bit to the side and shoot again, you'll miss. The reason people feel like the size is larger is because you can hit the person anywhere on their body. People were pretty awful at dealing with SF anyway. The key was to constantly keep on a different height level. Most people just tried to fight it straight up, which is why freezing them was so easy. Playing with radar on didn't help, but obviously the game was campy enough even with radar on.

I look at it this way: You have sniping which is a OHKO if you headshot, and heavy damage for body shots. SDFing (Shadow Death Freezing, which is when you freeze someone and snipe them while they're still frozen) was only possible on Imp maps. It was a little easier to freeze someone than to snipe someone since you only had to body shot, but you also had to aim blindly and be perpendicular to them. With radar on and the opponent on the same level, you could just angle slightly up and aim towards the dot, but if they were above or below you, you were basically aiming off of pure instinct. Aiming up or down extremely fast was not reliable enough to make it equivalent to aiming right at someone. So you have Imping which is easier, but requires headshots. Then you have SFing which requires crazy aiming when they aren't level with you, and requires you to have an Imp or for the opponent to have 50% health. For the most part, they are on par with each other. The problem comes in with maps that don't have Imps, and Noxus's alt sucking. Noxus can't run away all game like Trace can, and if a map doesn't have an Imp, Noxus should really never get a kill on Trace (if he's running away and just getting health). In quarter or semi-finals of the last major tourney, I lost a game to Olimar's Trace on Incubation Vault because I spent the entire match chasing around his alt while he got health. I had him in the red zone pretty much the whole time, but all it took was one opportunity for him to get out of alt, headshot me, and I was losing. Then the process just repeated. I froze and damaged him a bunch, but he'd eventually find opportunities where he was far enough away to pop out of alt and pick me off. That's how the matchup is supposed to be played, and he won as a result. The last game I cped Sic Transit and won because once I got the Imp, I was able to play the same style he was. Instead of trying to stay on top of him, I was able to play from long-range and "snipe" him with freezes through walls and then poke out to Imp him when I hit a freeze. In GFs of the same tournament vs. Turismo's Samus, I went Noxus on Harvester because I had the Imp, and I went Trace on Sanctorus because I knew he would just Morph Ball the crap out of me if I tried to go Noxus.

Wouldn't of guessed other hunters besides Trace were viable in high-level play. Do you have a plethora of cool high-play video/tutorial links?
They're not. If you were playing for millions of dollars, you would basically have to go Trace. The only exception would be if you want to use Samus or Sylux's alt forms instead, and just pick up the sniper, but the benefits of their alts aren't worth it because Trace is the only one who can get the Imp on certain maps, and even on maps with the Imp (like High Ground), it's a million times more difficult for non-Trace players to get access to the Imp while Trace can just grab any affinity orb.

Sylux was the most common character, huh? Like usual, I have a knack for picking the top-tier characters without actually knowing they're top-tier (used space animals in Melee before I knew about competitive Smash and Metaknight day 1 of Brawl release).

Alinos Perch best stage! Sanctorus was really awkward and I didn't like the hallways, and Combat Hall lacked weapon options and was boring IMO. And neither of them were nice and spacious like Alinos Perch.
Sylux wasn't that good. People would pick Sylux for his good alt speed and use other characters' weapons. No one would use him competitively on a map without an Imp pickup.

Didn't know this game had a community lol....
It was that legit?
Nah, it was pretty fraudulent. The community was pretty cool, but the game was so whack that there's no way we should have been competing in it. lol I think the aiming with the stylus was actually really responsive and the character designs were interesting and unique, and those two things were at the core of what kept interest in the game for so long. It definitely could have been balanced better, but it definitely had some gaping flaws that would have required fairly massive overhauls.

The game was really fun when you weren't good

Then you get good and you realize it's bad

Maybe you shouldn't listen to me I'm just bitter
Nah, that's accurate. You're just bitter because it's the truth. lol[/collapse]
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
Weavel's alt was not the worst <.<
It's bad, yeah. Horrendous. But its better than both Kanden or Noxus'.

And Bones, you actually quit before imping actually truly became unbeatable. Like when I quit, people didn't miss any more. And since I refused to imp and the game turned into a massive camp/spam fest if you banned imp, the game just got really unfun.
From time to time I pick i up again for a match or two just for old times sake, but i could never take it seriously again.
People kind of forgot how to have fun with it and just ran away with imp and then you died every time they looked at you.

SF isn't even viable anymore because its a two shot kill, rather than 1 shot.

I tried to start a movement to ban imp and make a uniform stage list/ruleset thing, but it was too late in the game's life so nobody cared.

And no, Sybot's tourney wasn't the last successful one.
PM (i.e. me) hosted a tourney in 2010 i think?
Iirc, Goomba won and Truth got second with Napalm and Future in third then Silentwing and Shockwave abd Lockoff or something.


Oh! And the good Mexican player I was talking about was SF°Him. He got reaaaally good in late 2011.
Best Kanden I've ever seen.
 

Vermanubis

King of Evil
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You probably did make me d/c once--a lot of people did (though, I don't ever remember picking Spire or anyone but Samus for that matter). But when I started to get a more positive reputation, I realized that d/cing wasn't okay. Though, in my defense, while I wasn't so great with anything outside of Samus' affinities, I certainly don't think I was <bad>. I won't bother citing wins or commentary to aggrandize myself over a game I played when I was 16, but I do think I was pretty decent. I'll concede to anybody that non-missile weapons were not my strong point given my limited range of motion with DM, but I sure did the job with missiles and MB. Given the rancor Bones seemed to have (and still might; I don't know--certainly hope not!) for my young self, reading this is probably gratifying. :p

And I still maintain that SFing wasn't a legit tactic. It was only not broken under specific circumstances involving character choice and stage. Against a Samus at Sanctorus, yeah, it's not broken--it gave Noxus a fighting chance. Against any character other Samus/Trace on non-imp maps (and even some on imp maps): it most definitely was. Barring deontological arguments, SF was just a silly thing in general. (I know this will invariably come up, so I'll preempt it now: I rarely lost to SFers because I never came out of alt; I just dreaded fighting them because if I won, I was accused of being a Spamus which seemed like a pretty lose-lose situation.)

This all reminds me: are you two going to be at Apex (Aesir and Bones)? If so, I think it would be absolutely awesome to meet up and play a few minutes of MPH for old times' sake. What do you think? It'd definitely be a trip.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
Yeah, I'm not a good smasher, but everyone's doing it, so...

I'm a drummer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3WblfJCEM - My band. We play very strange music that appeals to a very niche group. In other words, I'm not offended if you hate it.
A bit of a guitarist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVCZrtQ_VM - An old video of an extremely young looking me basically practicing some techniques.
I've done archery for several years, got second place at my archery school league.
I'm the president of my university's fencing club. I'm not especially good, but decent enough to hold my own.

Oh, and if it means anything, I plan on through-hiking the Appalachian trail in 2014.
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
4,242
Location
Marysville, Washington
Siglemic used to play competitive melee.

Not sure if it counts as a hidden talent, but more like "Wtf": When I played soccer, I kicked left footed. It's weird because I'm right handed. Usually if you're right handed you kick right footed. Just kind of quirky/cool.

Since this also sides as a bragging thread, think I'm one of the few people to beat MLG pros from multiple genres in tournament.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
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SOFA#941
This all reminds me: are you two going to be at Apex (Aesir and Bones)? If so, I think it would be absolutely awesome to meet up and play a few minutes of MPH for old times' sake. What do you think? It'd definitely be a trip.
ha that's be chill as hell, but unfortunately I'm poor as hell and can't afford it this year (I'm going to a comic-con the week after apex this year and I don't have a job, sooo)

I'm thinking about meeting up with greenbolt though, since he lives near columbus, which happens to be where I'm going lol.
 

KrazyKnux

Smash Lord
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Nov 19, 2005
Messages
1,489
^^^you know he's telling the truth if he registered over 6 years ago and made his first post for that LOL.
 
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