Halloween Party Mafia ~ Over! Who drowned bobbing for apples? Who won Best Costume?

[~ Gheb ~]

July, your "case" on EBR is long winded and hard to follow. Cut it down to three sentences explaining what makes him scum and show me quotes to back your claim up. Your points against EBR aren't actually big/numerous so don't pretend that you have an overwhelming amount of evidence when you could easily keep it short. Fake cases like yours and Swiss' make me seriously question the validity of the EBR wagon. Everybody on it is hardly worthy of any trust, I find the Asdioh wagon more credible.

Ran needs to die tho

 

[X1-12]

Gheb what do you feel Gova has done that he wouldn't do as town? Particularly in relation to the EBR wagon? I feel a more solid You-EBR connection case could be made than a Gova-EBR one, and this is by quite a distance

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Are you OK with the way he joined the wagon? No reasoning provided? Just popping in out of nowhere and then probably disappearing forever again?

You suspect a connection between me and EBR for very superficial reasons [because I don't join the wagon right away because no convincing reasoning was made] but let any vote on EBR just slide like that. You think there's nothing irritating about a wagon where 3 people don't provide reasoning [or in Ryu's case actively refuse to give any] and the other's two are plain unconvincing? There seems to be a double-standard ... when I point out why Ran is scum people apparently don't need to point out how I'm wrong and just claim he's town for no reason. But at the same time there is a consensus that EBR is scum based on ... nothing? And when I ask them for reasoning and remain unconvinced suddenly there's a connection between us? Horrible town play like that was a huge factor why scum could do as they please in FFIX mafia.

 

[Tandora]

It probably doesn't matter, since I already know he has no affiliation with anyone, but who did he form alliances with?

I caught this quote from Sang's post. How do you know that Swords didn't have any affiliation with anyone else? Just because he's indy doesn't mean he was working alone. We actually don't know that until the theme gets revealed.

 

[Asdioh]

I caught this quote from Sang's post. How do you know that Swords didn't have any affiliation with anyone else? Just because he's indy doesn't mean he was working alone. We actually don't know that until the theme gets revealed.

I was talking about J, whom I replaced.

 

[Swiss]

Gova, how did you deduce that EBR is scum?



No, if he's scum you should be able to tell why.
FoS Ryu, shouldn't let this guy get away with stuff like that.

Swiss scum read is pending now. I thought he was playing the "too dumb to be scum" card but he's probably like that as town anyway.
Still want a better explanation on why everybody thinks EBR is scum though. Vult is the only one who brought up a solid point and he's not even voting for him. If EBR were to flip scum though I'd call a bus from Gova or Ryu.

Oh, Gheb.

How can you not see EBR as scum? All the information you need is staring you in the face (afraid to be copped, unreasoned push on Vult, multiple "scummy" posts and hollow threats)), but at some point you're going to have to start making your own inferences and stop relying on your 'reputation' as a good player (which I openly question) to automatically give you scum reads.

 

[Swiss]

*I accept to responsbility for an EBR town flip, if he is town it is his fault*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm making own inferences - everybody else is just to dumb to see them -.-

 

[Swiss]

I caught this quote from Sang's post. How do you know that Swords didn't have any affiliation with anyone else? Just because he's indy doesn't mean he was working alone. We actually don't know that until the theme gets revealed.

Creating indie paranoia? So, you're scum then?

 

[Swiss]

I'm making own inferences - everybody else is just to dumb to see them -.-

What's more likely? That everyone around you is insane, or you are?

I want Gheb night actioned in some way. And not a good one.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah Swiss, I thought that too @Tandora

But I'm always the one who keeps a rather level head in these games and tend to trust myself more than anybody else. Me asking for why people think EBR is scum has a clear purpose - to show that hardly any reasoning can be given. In that case it's infinitely more likely that everybody else is insane. Except Vult, X1 and Sang - they actually show that they have minds of their own.

 

[X1-12]

Are you OK with the way he joined the wagon? No reasoning provided? Just popping in out of nowhere and then probably disappearing forever again?

No but this doesn't answer my question. I completely believe Gova would do this as town or scum. Yeah I don't like the way he joined but policy lynching everyone who's lazy/inactive/an idiot doesn't work, however satisfying it might be.

You suspect a connection between me and EBR for very superficial reasons [because I don't join the wagon right away because no convincing reasoning was made] but let any vote on EBR just slide like that. You think there's nothing irritating about a wagon where 3 people don't provide reasoning [or in Ryu's case actively refuse to give any] and the other's two are plain unconvincing? There seems to be a double-standard ... when I point out why Ran is scum people apparently don't need to point out how I'm wrong and just claim he's town for no reason. But at the same time there is a consensus that EBR is scum based on ... nothing? And when I ask them for reasoning and remain unconvinced suddenly there's a connection between us? Horrible town play like that was a huge factor why scum could do as they please in FFIX mafia.

@Bolded: Wow that's pretty impressive that you know what I'm thinking without me telling you eh? You did push at a crucial moment against EBR's lynch when no other lynch was really achievable leading to a NL, while I know you will contest how viable the Acrostic lynch was, pushing at that time against the EBR lynch did help save him from yesterDay's lynch. This is undeniable and any defence you make [why would I defend my scum partner so hard as scum?] Is simply WIFOM (Should we analyse the risk-reward here?)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't know why you call it a "policy lynch". The way Gova pounded his vote in was scummy period. Just because he's just as scummy in any other game doesn't mean that it's not a questionable move this time around.

You make it look as if somehow I should've known that the EBR lynch wouldn't work out without my vote. The main problem I have with all this "responsibility" talk and me "not defending myself" is that people seem to think that I'm obliged to use my vote in a manner that the rest of the town could agree with but that's far from true. If I don't believe that lynching EBR is the best course of action then nobody can hold it against me unless you think that I did this to specifically "protect" EBR from a lynch. How is that any worse than Smoth not budging on lynching Swiss or Acrostic, Gova or Traveling Cat not voting at all?
Don't just look at things from your own perspective - there are always two sides to a coin. You say I'm responsible for not getting EBR lynched. But in the same hand I could accuse everybody else to be responsible for not getting Acrostic lynched yesterDay.

Would you join a lynch that you consider largely random if you believe you had a realistic chance to get somebody else lynched - somebody you find more suspect?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gova, how did you deduce that EBR is scum?



No, if he's scum you should be able to tell why.
FoS Ryu, shouldn't let this guy get away with stuff like that.

Swiss scum read is pending now. I thought he was playing the "too dumb to be scum" card but he's probably like that as town anyway.
Still want a better explanation on why everybody thinks EBR is scum though. Vult is the only one who brought up a solid point and he's not even voting for him. If EBR were to flip scum though I'd call a bus from Gova or Ryu.

Which proves you haven't read the thread because this was spelled out for you multiple times. From me included.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not in an agreeable manner. Especially not from you.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not in an agreeable manner. Especially not from you.

Why are you white knighting EBR?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not. That's the first problem - knee-jerk conclusions.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not. That's the first problem - knee-jerk conclusions.

Then why are you defending him?

You don't think his back and forth at directing the cop to him then not isn't bad? Or his case on Soup? Or his intention to avoid a lynch by pushing random people and creating WIFOM on purpose with outright claiming it to distract town?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not defending him. I'm asking questions.

Why did it take you that long to make a somewhat comprehensive case? What's bad about his case on Soup? What's scummy about him not wanting to be lynched? If you were to be lynched would you not try to change the momentum to a different wagon?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why did it take you that long to make a somewhat comprehensive case?

Because I've said this before. Which you should have seen.

What's bad about his case on Soup?

It's pure meta, which is a gamble to take at best.

What's scummy about him not wanting to be lynched?

Self preservation, the same thing he's called people out on in other games like Vult in Melee mafia, and yet it is perfectly fine for him to do it? It's not even he went after a person whom was lifely we made a BS vote just to stop a lynch of any sort.

If you were to be lynched would you not try to change the momentum to a different wagon?

Through words, not votes.

I don't blame him for the NL, but his vote still wasn't going in a product direction when he admitted it was just to stop a lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Once again you don't point out how anything of that points towards him being scum. I agree that the WIFOM aspect you mentioned is scummy but imo not more than Ranmaru has been. Which still leaves me wondering why people are using such double-standards to see EBR as super-obvious scum for vague reads when a concrete accusation against Ranmaru exists to which nobody is able to give a good response to.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, I find his recent avoidance of the thread / several points and his generally evasive nature much more problematic than anything you've mentioned. For how suspicious you all claim he is I find it amusing how I can easily find 2 scummy things about him right on the spot even though lynching him is not my main priority, while those who claim that he's scum struggle to give me anything worthwhile.
It feels like a lot of people - inactive or not - are not playing to their fullest but still go for what's convenient to them.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And I'm still confused why nobody seems to consider the option of inactive scum at all - just by sheer mathematics it's so likely that at least one scumbag is inactive or coasting.

 

[X1-12]

Because I think you're an idiot if you'd rather shoot blindly at inactives before you try to get your scumpicks lynched, and I don't think anyone has zero scumpicks.

Gheb some of your points on Ranmaru are OK but by no means have swayed me. As for the double standards business that's probably because people had already in their minds come to the conclusion that Ran is Town and EBR is scum, because of this people will be fine with people pushing the EBR lynch, because they're thinking the same thing. The inverse happens with Ran because he's been considered town by a large amount of people. In both these cases I don't think whining is gonna get you anywhere and instead you're gonna just have to work harder if you want Ran lynched

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not whining lol.

And shooting at inactive players is never "blindly". The loss never outweighs the gain.

 

[X1-12]

I use the word "blindly" because choosing a lynch based on the posts of an active player is a much more informed choice than lynching someone who's hardly posted.

I also disagree with the loss never outweighing the gain. Lynching an inactive will just reset the situation with one less inactive and 1 less active.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

one less inactive and 1 less active.

Gain

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Votecount 3-5

8/15 to lynch.

EBR! [6]: Swiss, Asdioh, Red Ryu, Gova, July, asianaussie
Asdioh [3]: X1-12, Ranmaru, SangfroidWarrior
Swiss [1]: Shadow Moth
Gheb [1]: Tandora
Ranmaru [1]: Gheb


Not voting: Acrostic, EBR!, Vult Redux

------------------------------------------------------------

[collapse=Vote Log] Swiss > EBR! > Asdioh > EBR!
X1-12 > Asdioh
Gova > EBR!
Acrostic
Gheb > Swiss > Ranmaru
Red Ryu > EBR!
July > EBR! > EBR!
EBR!
Vult Redux
Ranmaru > Asdioh
Asdioh > asianaussie > EBR!
asianaussie > EBR!
Shadow Moth > Swiss
SangfroidWarrior > Asdioh
Tandora > Gheb
[/collapse]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Once again you don't point out how anything of that points towards him being scum. I agree that the WIFOM aspect you mentioned is scummy but imo not more than Ranmaru has been. Which still leaves me wondering why people are using such double-standards to see EBR as super-obvious scum for vague reads when a concrete accusation against Ranmaru exists to which nobody is able to give a good response to.

Also, I find his recent avoidance of the thread / several points and his generally evasive nature much more problematic than anything you've mentioned. For how suspicious you all claim he is I find it amusing how I can easily find 2 scummy things about him right on the spot even though lynching him is not my main priority, while those who claim that he's scum struggle to give me anything worthwhile.
It feels like a lot of people - inactive or not - are not playing to their fullest but still go for what's convenient to them.

So another point against him, call it as you will but all these points together are lynchworthy to me. You can call the others points not scummy, to me they are when you look at the meat of the things themselves. Soup case is pushed on meta, the cop and don't cop me point is bad as well.

Ran, eh he's not town to me either, but I'm not gonna push him yet when I'm more confident in EBR being scum. Call it whatever you want saying you can see things we can't but we want him lynched based on his play.

I will push inactives if they are lurking and prod dodging, not for being inactive alone. The mod will fix those issues, lurking and prod dodging I will jump aboard and fix if I see it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Taking a car somewhere as soon as I finish looking at threads. I'll post later tonight with a response to whatever is directed at me.

 

[Swiss]

I don't know why you call it a "policy lynch". The way Gova pounded his vote in was scummy period. Just because he's just as scummy in any other game doesn't mean that it's not a questionable move this time around.

You make it look as if somehow I should've known that the EBR lynch wouldn't work out without my vote. The main problem I have with all this "responsibility" talk and me "not defending myself" is that people seem to think that I'm obliged to use my vote in a manner that the rest of the town could agree with but that's far from true. If I don't believe that lynching EBR is the best course of action then nobody can hold it against me unless you think that I did this to specifically "protect" EBR from a lynch. How is that any worse than Smoth not budging on lynching Swiss or Acrostic, Gova or Traveling Cat not voting at all?
Don't just look at things from your own perspective - there are always two sides to a coin. You say I'm responsible for not getting EBR lynched. But in the same hand I could accuse everybody else to be responsible for not getting Acrostic lynched yesterDay.

Would you join a lynch that you consider largely random if you believe you had a realistic chance to get somebody else lynched - somebody you find more suspect?

Dude, you're meant to be good.

You should know how fragile lynches are. Follow the consensus lynch unless you have astonishing proof which you can provide to the contrary.

 

[Swiss]

In fact, **** this.

Almost wanting to lynch Gheb right here and right now for how ****ing dumb he's being. Although I don't think he's a pro, he is not this bad.

What's changed, Gheb?

 

[Swiss]

Calling all townies.

You will be voting in unison with me, we will not have another NL and if you have the slightest hesitation over my lynch pick you will bring this up with at least 72 hours to spare in the day phase.

This is my word, this is the law.

 

[Tandora]

Creating indie paranoia? So, you're scum then?

Not intentionally. =/

Most games I've played that included an indy faction has multiple indy players.
Newbie 3, Tales of Symphonia, FF9, Dexter, and All Stars all had multiple indy player slots. So I tend to not assume that an indy is working alone.

 

[Tandora]

Taking a car somewhere as soon as I finish looking at threads. I'll post later tonight with a response to whatever is directed at me.

Seriously, are you playing as EBR or Ryker? Because you need to post on your hydra. Not posting on your hydra is what severely pissed me off on Dissidia when you flipped as SK because it is already difficult enough to ISO you with your 1 million posts without trying to keep track of when you posted on your personal account as well.

AT MOD, PLEASE IMPLEMENT SOME CONSEQUENCE FOR THIS.

 

[Swiss]

Are you sure that's a wise request considering you want Ryker to survive?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Try to post on your hydra, Ryker.

 

[Swiss]

Not intentionally. =/

Most games I've played that included an indy faction has multiple indy players.
Newbie 3, Tales of Symphonia, FF9, Dexter, and All Stars all had multiple indy player slots. So I tend to not assume that an indy is working alone.

Not assuming an indie is working alone is surely different to assuming an indie has a partner, no? What made you think he may? I'm curious, because I dismissed the thought without so much as a flicker.

 

[Swiss]

Also, Tan, will you vote Gheb with me?

 

[July]

I have class, will post when I get back.