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I said that costumes aren't related to alignment and as such shouldn't be used to base reads. You then tell me that we're only wearing the costumes because they are relevant. You haven't explained why that is and consequently why that makes EBR town.
When people actually work, give out stances, think for themselves, and try to hunt out the scum team, be it through questions, accusations, or otherwise.
Sorry for the bizzarre wording, I was pretty exhausted but I am so hyped about this game I stayed up late. I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about it. I haven't been this excited in a while. I also feel stupid for misspeling you. >_<
When people actually work, give out stances, think for themselves, and try to hunt out the scum team, be it through questions, accusations, or otherwise.
I said that costumes aren't related to alignment and as such shouldn't be used to base reads. You then tell me that we're only wearing the costumes because they are relevant. You haven't explained why that is and consequently why that makes EBR town.
You're gonna think this is stupid, but I noticed that Sword's character's actress isn't British while everyone else's has been. In retrospect, I guess it could be because he was an indy.
Seriously. Unless you are incapable of doing so, I don't know why you can't go through my posts. If you really want it that bad, it will have to wait. I cannot do so now as I have buisness to attend to.
Seriously. Unless you are incapable of doing so, I don't know why you can't go through my posts. If you really want it that bad, it will have to wait. I cannot do so now as I have buisness to attend to.
This post is a bunch of words that have no relevance next to each other. You're salty about my play and then say that trying to live is scummy because of it.
Fine, I'll make it more blunt: You didn't do **** yesterDay, you said if you were in danger you would push J or Swiss, then you did absolutely NOTHING all Day. You could have pushed your scum picks, made a case, continued scum hunting but instead you sat back and did NOTHING until you were forced to because it was either divert your wagon or get lynched. So then you didn't even try to kill someone you thought was scum, you decided to push for an inactive because it would be easier. However, if you had actually done **** earlier in the Day you wouldn't have been in that position, so you dug your grave and you are still digging it by sitting back and throwing out names and doing nothing to actually push their lynch. Like this:
I like to think that I understand the way this game works well enough to know what my concern should be and what not. If ~6 people are inactive at this phase of the game and 4 of them fail to vote at all then there is a problem and it's not acceptable. I'm actually surprised that so many people are OK with leaving inactives around. Lynching them gives us no information ... leaving them alive CERTAINLY doesn't give us any more information either while the inactivity continues to be a problem and increasingly hard to deal with.
Of course inactives are a problem, but now we have a replacement for TCat, Ran and Acrostic have shown signs of life, Gova is still here although his contributions are still lackluster, and why do you not have a problem with the fact that while these 4 people were inactive and may not have even been online to vote all Day, Sang WAS here and was active and yet did not place a vote until a few hours before the deadline?
And why is now a better time than toMorrow to lynch an inactive? We have yet to lynch scum and I would much prefer to lynch my scum picks first than just take a shot in the dark toDay by lynching an inactive.
Also by leaving TCat, an inactive alive, we got an active player to replace in and now we can get a read on the slot. Others have become more active toDay than yesterDay, so yeah actually leaving them alive has provided more information than lynching them yesterDay or toDay.
Lynching people for information is a dumb idea. Always was and will always be. If somebody gives you information by his presence then lynching him for information only cuts off information flow while leaving deadweight around. And if there's one thing I've learned in the ~30 games I've played here then it's that inactivity will ALWAYS caus a problem sooner or later.
I understand it will cause problems if nothing changes, but I SEE it changing. I don't expect all of them to just up and provide a surge of activity but getting something from them, getting at least a read on the slot before lynching them at least means we are not taking such a shot in the dark. And I want EBR's lynch because I want information as to if my reads are on target or not, I want to be able to act on and adjust my reads if necessary and putting off lynching my scum picks until toMorrow or the next Day or the next Day so you can pick off inactives is not a part of that.
Or to look at this issue from a different perspective: what expectations do you have to actually win the game if we have Gova, Acrostic, Asianaussie, Traveling Cat and yourself in a mylo/lylo situation? That's instant-loss for town and if I can help preventing such a ****ed up scenario I will do so whenever possible.
I honestly don't know because you are asking me to look at a scenario where we have only 5 players alive and no additional information from this point until then. There's just too much that would happen between now and such a scenario to say I have good expectations or bad, I simply don't know.
The whole post was scummy - the typicall scum catch-up/filler post. Quote some stuff here and there to make it look big and responsive, respond with meaningless one-liners and pretend to do stuff. Chibo would do that as scum all day erriday. It's a textbook example of feigning usefulness.
In FF, he softly defended me against J (a confirmed scum) saying that J was insulting my intelligence. He's never done that as town.
Knowing that Ryker is comfortable to tell me that I'm wrong and he doesn't like my play shows he's comfortable speaking his mind instead of playing it safe or sucking up to me.
I admit that I'm leery that Kuz being part of the hydra could screw my read up. Kuzi totally takes advantage of my feelings for him. It's like a kind of magic. Mind controlling magic.... o.o
Seriously though, I'm kinda sleep derived loopy, so I've being very silly. I really feel comfortable in my read on EBR because of the activity I've seen from Ryker (the posts are obviously his) who usually gets really quiet as scum. It's how I caught him the last couple of times. And I think I figured out the theme, so his claim makes me even more confident that he's town.
I'll be able to confirm my guess during night phase.
Of course they are relevant, but we don't know if scum has safe claims for their costumes or if people have figured out the theme and created their own safe claims with their costumes so take costume claims with a grain of salt.
I love how everybody goes "omg Gheb has Ran as scum u dum?!?!?" How about actualy responding to my points I brought up against him? I've pointed out plenty scummy things about him but nobody has ever backed up the town read - at least you could've tried to show what's wrong with it instead of just sheeping around on the town read that others have [this goes to like everybody who claims Ran tu be obvtown].
Ran tried to get town active and remove us from stagnant RVS through RQS. RQS got conversation started and put Ran in the spotlight when he previously had not been, and the questions, while some were not used, did not seem to have scum motivation behind them and Circus even used them to gain information for reads. Other than that he's been providing his reads, he looked at connections but also handled the heat for that really well upon realizing he was working off assumptions about the set-up and instead of just giving up there or finding excuses to keep pushing those connections he went through the players and dropped suspicions based on connections and then kept on scumhunting. D2 he was inactive, but he was inactive everywhere including on mafiascum so that's null.
I see you are in a great mood Kuz, but before you yell at me for posting "garbage" look at your post again:
All of this, your first two paragraphs? I don’t give a **** about, this is, once again information instead of analysis as you try to tell us that inactivity isn’t a scum tell, it’s a null tell and using yourself as an example. And also throwing some aggression in there just for the hell of it.
I didn’t say that you were trying to policy lynch him, did you actually read my post? I said that you wanted to lynch him out of complacency. That means that you kept pushing him because he was an easy lynch, not because you genuinely thought he was scum. The fact of the matter is that here:
You admit that you actually haven’t read the thread yet, but you “gave it a good skim” which I dislike already. Your points:
*Ran lynch is still where we are going- not dumb despite what Swords says
*don’t like Ran “scum slip” but not scummiest thing about him (also I don’t personally believe it was a scum slip, so this point is moot to me)
*Swords wrong for saying his reads are backwards- not focus of push
*REASONING FOR READS- so you say there simply isn’t enough content to warrant his reasoning, and you cite his #218. First of all I don’t get where you see this: “because he is taking your dislike of my Ran pressure and using it to insinuate that almost surely knew that I was right and wanted to look pro-town by defending Ran instead of just speaking your mind.”
From this:
You put a lot of words in Ran’s mouth there as to what he was insinuating that I did not get AT ALL.
And I don’t understand how there is not enough “content” to warrant his reasoning; his reasoning is obviously weak because it was so early in the game, but that doesn’t mean that the content behind his reads isn’t real content and valid. Anyways it seems like you think there is not enough information to make such strong reads. However you never address the fact that I give a list of full reads in my one post in response to J and Sang gives full reads in her #268, so there was clearly enough information for town/null/scum reads to at least tentatively be formed even if you yourself didn’t think so. It really seems like you just focused on Ran’s reads because once again, that’s already where you were heading and threw out an accusation that there wasn’t enough content to warrant his reasoning, put some words in his mouth then called it a Day.
Also the first line of this I assumed was directed at J, considering J was the most recent person to post and call you out for your crappy play. But then the entire paragraph above was directed at Swords, which wasn’t apparent at the onset of this post that it was a response to Swords and I find it strange that of all the posts asking you for content and trying to get reads/reasoning out of you, you explain your read on Ran directly to Swords while pointing out things you like/dislike about his play in particular. Also this line, “However I find it interesting, and a town tell, that Sword is trying to emulate what I did in Kingmaker in trying to go after his largest scum read regardless of reputation”, completely random, not sure how it’s a town tell, don’t like what are getting at here. First of all, how is it a town tell? Second of all, you make it sound as if it could damage his reputation to push you even though tbh you were inactive, your only participation in the game so far had been your crappy reasoning behind Ran RQS scumminess, and pressure on you was well deserved. How that could come back and harm his reputation is a stretch and I find it strange you are willing to so poorly misconstrue something into a “town tell”. Rest of this paragraph is about Swords, and ultimately you leave this post with an ambiguous read on him, crediting him with a “town tell” here but then immediately calling into question his push on you for activity.
Anyways I digress. Your reasons for Ran scum here are, minorly his “scum slip” which was discussed and for the most part ruled as most likely confusion on Ran’s part rather than an actual scum slip, so moot point. You say that his reads being backwards isn’t the focus of the push, which well it shouldn’t be. So then we have the keystone of your case, that there is not enough content to warrant the reasoning behind his reads. That is a lie however, as there was enough content to warrant reasoning behind my reads and Sang’s reads near the same time Ran provided his reads. Now you clarify that his reads were opportunistic and reaching, points that were not clearly drawn out in this post. Nevertheless, you reach yourself to show Ran’s read on Swords in his #218 as scummy, and Ran has reformed his reads after he stopped connection hunting yet you don’t seem to care about that or notice that anyways. As for the opportunistic claim, I don’t see any support for that in either of these posts and would like you to provide support for that as well.
Alright pulling up your post again:
Yes, you do say you want him dead because of his RQS questions, unfortunately your reasons are much too shallow despite your claim that you are looking into intent. Explain to me, why would Ran as scum draw attention to himself by starting RVS? What did he gain from those questions that he could use for scummy intent? And why would Ran scum purposefully push town out of stagnancy and put himself in the limelight in the process? Also, keep in mind that his question about who would you hold hands with was used by Circus to gain a read on me, so clearly there was the potential for pro-town use of the Ran’s questions. Ultimately the likelihood that town Ran started RQS to stimulate conversation is higher and makes much more sense than scum Ran trying to fake content.
Clearly you haven’t read my post which IS QUOTED RIGHT THERE IN YOUR POST:
I NEVER accused your Soup read of having anything to do with your Ran read. At first I thought you got this wrong because of my ambiguous use of the pronoun “his” in that line but considering you addressed my point on his, being Soup’s commentary on J v. Sang clearly you either misread or misconstrued this. I saw Swords ask you if you had a “real good post with updated reads is on its way” if that’s what you are referring to, once again why you chose to address your catch-up post entirely to Swords is beyond me. Anyways for continuity’s sake, here’s your part about Soup:
Actually he admits that in the post right after he votes you, just making sure we don’t misconstrue anything here. While I’m not sure what his purpose was with that comment, you once again throw in how important it is that you are a power player and people are trying to demonstrate their ability/sturdiness by how they interact with you, which makes me think that your ego is really clouding your ability to look at intent and motivation in an unbiased manner. Also you say that his #319 has no inferences or deductions; however isn’t his claim that it was T v. T a deduction? Or where he accuses J of strawmanning Sang, isn’t that a deduction about J’s play?
Back to your response post way up there, where you say you point out how his play here contradicts his usual play aka meta aka blah blah blah not good enough. I would like more reasoning. You say that Swords still has to get back to you about where Soup has contributed, fair enough. I agree with Swords and await his response to you on the subject.
You should check yourself, because you’ve had some pretty major issues in your posts of misconstruing things, and where that’s not the case you just have downright ****ty reasoning. I bring up your abrasive attitude because it’s something that I know you and J do all the damn time and belongs as a null read, however if people haven’t ever seen Kuz v. J they might take that abrasiveness as a sign of alignment which I know it’s not. Your #334 wasn’t bad per se because it wasn’t, it had the appearance of content and you gave updated reads, which is a hell of a lot better than your other posts from D1. However, unfortunately that appearance of scumhunting is lie, its just you piecing together what you’ve skimmed to make an easy little accusation on Ran that makes no sense and pull a Soup scum read out of your *** based on one post and some handy meta. Once again I will wait for Swords to get to you about where Soup provided content, and if he doesn’t then I will. Honestly I didn’t realize the depths to which I disliked that post, how worthless the beginning was, how weak your reasoning on Ran and how full of **** you were on the “there is not enough content to warrant his reasoning” accusation, or how blatantly you let your ego get in the way of analyzing intent wrt Swords and Soup. Also, you act as if I wouldn’t provide you with a response to all these things? That is a very silly thing to think, and I now await your response EBR.
I started this post of pretty angry, and then I got really happy as I realized just how terrible your post was and catching all the things wrong with it that I didn't get on my first read of it.
Which points out many of the flaws in EBR's logic wrt their scum picks, ESPECIALLY Vult who they continued to to push well after this post with the same crappy logic I attacked here. Then there's the fact that all yesterDay they stated their scum reads but never ACTUALLY pushed them or scumhunting, and refused to do so even when they were inches away from death opting instead to push an inactive. Then take into consideration that toDay they still aren't doing anything to push any scum reads or scumhunt. Oh also take into account that they never responded to this above post despite me posting it multiple times, even upon their request once.
EBR I'd like you to finally get on that btw, I remember after my original post the Kuz head said he had at least started a response to me...anything would be nice but I'd really like a response from the Ryker head since he's here.
@Tanny. It's a "right now" response. I will gladly do so, I'm just tired and annoyed that Swiss is asking me to look up my own posts for him. And, I'm not being uncooperative. I really am/was busy and cannot do that at this moment. I plan on getting to it at some point either tonight or tomorrow.
So, what? EBR is alread at L-2? What happened to all of these people yesterday? We could have gotten this out of the way and moved on by now. Nothing has changed.
@Tanny. It's a "right now" response. I will gladly do so, I'm just tired and annoyed that Swiss is asking me to look up my own posts for him. And, I'm not being uncooperative. I really am/was busy and cannot do that at this moment. I plan on getting to it at some point either tonight or tomorrow.
Do what you will. Depending on that window of oppurtinity, I may or may not make it in time. *shrugg* It is what it is and I don't think this will make your "avalance of destruction" go away.
Do what you will. Depending on that window of oppurtinity, I may or may not make it in time. *shrugg* It is what it is and I don't think this will make your "avalance of destruction" go away.
I know it is always for a reason. This isn't a game where people ask questions just because. If you don't care about my post why push it so hard? I've already started it, but I will gladly stop if you don't find it necessary.
Fine fine. I will. From how you told me you were planning to lynch useless people, I would figure that you might just be voting him to get rid of him. Not that I'm saying he's useless; he just hasn't been here much toDay.
That was a fun exchange to watch, makes me feel a little bit better about Sang although I do want to see her actually push her scum picks. However she handled Swiss' pressure very well.
@July. Mind if I get back to you on that in a bit (probably tonight. putting off homework )? For now, I'm sticking with my ones from yesterday. I'm doing a re-read. But, off the top of my head, I don't care for AA or J, though I am hardpressed to remember why I don't like AA. J just seems off, to me. Only two but I can't remember much.
I want AA's reasons. Haven't finished reading it all but I don't remember him ever pointing out any dislike for EBR and I don't like that he just dropped by to vote and then left.
because i think swiss is town and think that he's right
i didn't make notes this game
if you don't like me doing this, why didn't you point it out yesterDay (i did almost precisely the same thing, dropping by, voting EBR and leaving to study)
Because I don't remember it. You could have at least given some reasoning. I may have missed it yesterDay but I was busy. It's kind of glaring me in the face right now, so I had to ask. Could you at least give me some reasons as to why you don't think EBR is town? Or are you just blindly following Swiss?
J/Asdioh (scum) - From early on J questioned really weird things, pushed the most out-there items, and never followed up with his pushes. He tried pushing me, but later dropped it after very little resistance. The same goes for his push on Swiss, or EBR, or anyone else for that matter. For his arguments, he seemingly reaches for points; for his defenses, he puts no effort into them that would seem at all towny. In his argument with X1, there are good points and bad, but the bad are so full of nonsense and holes that they overshadow and redeemable qualities. I don't care much for Asdioh either. His 1114 case using meta about the "classic July distancing" is very shallow, and he doesn't back up any of his other reads either. It seems he is just hopping on some of the easiest lynches (aussie and EBR)
Acrostic (null strongly leaning scum) - Out of the very few posts that we have had from him, none of them contain any content that is usefull to town's advantage. He has no content whatsoever, choosing to lurk and post nonsense every now and then. It does not look like he is trying at all to help town, and I would be fine with him gone. I am wary, of course, of voting him with his absence.
EBR (null with a slight scum possibility) - There is very little from EBR that sways me from town to scum. He tunnels on Soupa and Vult, and I find it admirable that he is sticking to a scumpick, but he doesn't often look in any other direction. And then, suddenly, the suspicion is gone, replaced by Acro. I liked his argument against Ran, but, like the soupa suspcion, it went away almost completely.
Others I don't feel comfortable with:
Gova (null) - I can't remember anything of worth from him besides recently. I would really like to see more from him before the Day ends, and even more tomorrow. I like some of his posts already, but they aren't enough to give me any sort of substantial read.
Ranmaru (null) - Don't even get me started. Some of his posts were so freaking scummy it's not even funny, but, most of the time, I was able to see the town intent behind. He makes some posts with points that seem reachy, or he fluctuates on reads without giving reasons, but it still seems like he's trying to help town. I can't tell with him and am stuck at 50/50 for town/scum read on him.
Vote: Asdioh When it comes closer, if needed, I will vote for EBR. For now, I want to see more from Asdioh.
@Swiss. [collapse=here ya are]187, 189, 268, and 272. I feel kinda pretentious putting these up here -_- Especially the last one.[/collapse]@Asdioh.
Lol for Lady van Tassel if you are actually town. That's priceless. Movie was amazing. Either way, I agree that the costumes, although helpful in guessing true themes or true characters, are likely not indicative of allignment and are therefore not helpful to our cause. Unless the point is to give people costumes to guess by, I don't see the usefullness in doing this.
I am curious how a policy lynch on me D2 would have been the optimal move. If I were to be lynched there would be little to gain from my flip in terms of gaining insight into other players.
I wouldn't go so far as to say Gheb doesn't have ulterior motives, but a lynch of you D2 would have gotten an extreme inactive out of the way and given us more room to look for scum instead of having question marks like yourself and others.
No, if he's scum you should be able to tell why. FoS Ryu, shouldn't let this guy get away with stuff like that.
Swiss scum read is pending now. I thought he was playing the "too dumb to be scum" card but he's probably like that as town anyway.
Still want a better explanation on why everybody thinks EBR is scum though. Vult is the only one who brought up a solid point and he's not even voting for him. If EBR were to flip scum though I'd call a bus from Gova or Ryu.
