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First of all, you need to understand what the hell you are talking and who you are talking about. You say Sang does not have your standard on "Content" but it's a load of Bull.
X1-12 said:
@Sang: did you not even question yourself pushing someone who's not even there for trying to lynch someone easy?? Also Just because you are legitimately annoyed or irritated doesn't mean that you aren't scum. In my first game I was just as irritated and I tried exactly the same tricks as you did (against the real Cello). I don't like you seeing my points, not defending against them but instead saying "yeah well I did that once but I do you have any other examples of it?" Because that's not a defence at all.
Did you seriously just try and apply your own self-scum-meta as a reason for why Sang is scummy is because it is something you did when you were a n00b scum?
X1-12 said:
@J: I find you and Sang pretty much equally scummy. There's no point trying to lynch the harder of my two lynch candidates first, especially when lynching you toMorrow would be much easier with a connection case which anyone could easily build by reading your posts.
Whoa whoa whoa wait a second here. You tihnk I'm the scummier of your two scum picks but you are not gonna lynch me simply because you don't have the right arsenal to nail me.....and your great weapon is conjecture surrounding another scum-pick of yours to be my scum-buddy that makes absolutely no sense? And plus, you don't even say you will be the one forming this case but anyone could which implies you don't even have to and it would just fall into place. What is this crap?
X1-12 said:
This is completely unsubstantiated don't you think? So far I've attacked you and Sang and I vote Sang. Please show where you see "BS Logic".
I've shown how your logic is BS extensively in your last post already though. It's really in-depth too. Not...sure...if...serious?
X1-12 said:
To defend Sang you point out instances where she got DH lynched. Congratz, Sang said "Guys lets vote DH he jumped on the Ran wagon then disappeared" I do not call this worthwhile content. You also think I'm am shoving the blame of DH's townflip on to Sang? No, but I do think that as town she would have realised that doing trying to lynch someone for doing exactly what she is doing (but she's doing it worse) was a terrible idea
She was far from doing what DH was doing and to compare the two is almost an insult to Sang herself. I mean are you seriously trying to compare the DH push by Sang to the Ran push by Ran? They are like polar opposites. Also you keep saying, "She has no content guuuuys, lynch her." when you are the only person to think of such and have not shown what in the world you are talking about. Based on her posts, your theory is garbage until you can prove otherwise. At the moment, I think you are bat **** crazy because she does have content, she does have reads, and she has been scum-hunting.
Did you just ignore the rest of her post and what she had said BEFORE that? You strawman her argument to that being the only reason she was pushing DH which is not at all. Like this is a disgusting amount of misconstrument of what she actually said instead of actually telling the the thing she did say. There is an entire monolog of a reason before that one line you use to strawman her attack.
X1-12 said:
J your push on EBR WAS fake and you acted like you had some kind of case against him but realised when it wouldn't work that you would dismiss it as pressure.
We got 10 people on the DH wagon, we got about 5-6 people off the Ran wagon. There was enough of a push yesterDay to acquire that lynch so yet again, point is wrong.
X1-12 said:
Your case against him was going nowhere, hence why you dropped it and played it off as a pressure case.
Wait whaaaat? No one had posted really against "my" EBR case. Wanna know why? I never had an EBR case and in fact it was Sword's EBR case. Now you are even messing up simple facts. Swords had the EBR case, trying to get votes, and the like. I was maitaining a pressure wagon because I saw it fit to gain a read on that slot.
X1-12 said:
This is scummy because you don't actually care to get your suspects lynched, nor do you have real scumspects. You're happy to push someone to give the appearance that you're doing something.
This is utter BS. You are saying I am just pushing people to give the appearance of pushing people and not actually caring who I push or what I push? Where did I say EBR was a suspect of mine, let alone a scum-pick. I don't have any real scumpicks? What are you talking about X1-12?
X1-12 said:
Attacking Sang for deflecting then giving it up as soon as she says "no you're deflecting" "no wait I'm confused, probably my fault.. *giggle*" is another prime example of this, nothing here reads town at all.
The alliance is BS. You claim the players you asked to join are too good to manipulate, well buddying them like that would be a good way to start eh? You don't ask people like Soup/AA to join because they don't need to be included to be manipulated, either that or they're not even a threat.
You have a group of 5 players who you fully believe to be town. You ask them to join an alliance. You then say "what does town gain from their responses" - What does this gain you or town? Nothing at all. Does it help you catch scum?
You are dwindling down your argument to asking me whether buddying would be a good idea to ask them to be in an allaiance. This is just getting more shallow. You aren't even trying to argue the main points anymore.
Town does gain things from that and it does help catch scum.....what are you blathering on about because it's obvious at this point and I've explained clearly as well.
X1-12 said:
I forgot that Circus was dead when I posted that, but regardless. They clearly have intentions to benefit town by getting their reads heard (the only reads they know to come from a 100% legit source, as well as the reads they probably believe in most). If someone does something to get their suspects lynched I take this as a town tell. I think joining alliances just for the hell of it is complete BS and is scummy.
How is it scummy at the last sentence? Also you keep saying "Circus so town yo cuz he had the right intentions to join it." Let's look at his post kay? Thanks.
Circus said:
J, I'm down to be in your League of Justice or whatever it is you're doing. But AA should definitely be bigger vig priority than Swiss, Joey (who is I think being replaced soon maybe hopefully?), and Acrostic. Gova and Raziek can totally go though, you're right. But AA's response to my first vig suggestion is what really set him apart for me. Methinks he be-ith a little paranoid.
The very first sentence he just says he is joining it and doesn't even seem to really care whatsoever. He doesn't say he is joining this thing to help provide the AA vig thing at all but just continues to talk about it because we were having a prior convo about it so now what X1-12? Your justification for your CircusTown thing is nothing but lies.
Let's bring up the point as well that you didn't even respond to a majority of my post but instead tried to look at the weakest points you could find in the argument and attack those but to which I still had pretty strong answers to them as well. Are you going to respond to the rest of the points against you or not? Saying, "The points are just over-bloated and repeat themselves over and over" are lies because each paragraph focuses on different points and each are backed up solidly which you have yet to combat.
Heh guess it was miscommunication cuz I was combining it with this as well. =P
AA said:
Yes, J, I would be either deluded or a liar if I were to say that my dislike for you wasn't because of your push. Another part is how your posting style irritates me when I'm already irritated, but these two points are personal and not to be considered if I pull up a case against you.
I would actually like to see quotes of this as well, I don't recall J ever dismissing his EBR stuff as mere pressure (it's for this reason I find his lack of follow-through strange).
Wait whaaaat? No one had posted really against "my" EBR case. Wanna know why? I never had an EBR case and in fact it was Sword's EBR case. Now you are even messing up simple facts. Swords had the EBR case, trying to get votes, and the like. I was maitaining a pressure wagon because I saw it fit to gain a read on that slot.
Hmm...I'm not going to say disregard my points on J vs EBR, but this does explain a lot. I'll be reading up on this to see how legit it is. J, What is your current stance on EBR, and would you lynch him after Swiss and me?
I'm split right now. Gonna go draft up some decklists and wait for responses before deciding on a proper direction today.
Your interaction with sang is a load of BS, you attack her for valid reasons then drop it for absolute BS
She has Content. ****ing Ranmaru has content but I don't give a ****. She has no USEFUL CONTENT
Its not a strawman. You said to me "She never said DH was tunnelling Ran" and I give you a damn quote where she says it.
During the EBR attack you act as though you find it legit and believe that they are scum. you specifically state that you have extra bullets to add to this case. You then say that it was just a pressure push
getting 10 people to vote DH =/= 10 people to vote EBR, lol.
OK big ****ing deal, your EBR PRESSURE was going nowhere so you dropped it, the point still stands
You said "Swords has the main EBR case but I could add a few bullets of my own" or something pretty much identical to this in #433 you then say "did I ever call EBR scum"
You haven't refuted the alliance point at all, you picked the power player and asked them to join an alliance with you. I feel this is an attempt to manipulate people. You say to this "why would I pick the power players???" and its because they're the ones with most influence
How is asking people their thoughts on your strongest town reads, scumhunting???
Circus's post shows clear intention that he wants to use his position in the alliance to change public opinions based upon his own reads. Thats a town tell
I've responded to every single paragraph. You like to exxagerrate and act as though everything I've done is worth nothing because you find that helps your defence. If you pay attention you already called my first post a fail before even responding to it.
Just FYI I'm not going to respond to any more walls because I simply don't have the care to.
EBR read is null at the moment, I just find myself laughing a lot at July's last post because it just amuses me but at the moment, that's a slot I'm gonna have to go over massive re-evaluation over things before I come to a concrete read but that is my strongest null read.
X1, I just read through, and J did indeed merely follow Swords' lead, which was basically 'EBR isn't doing anything, they're coasting as a hydra which is bad'. J was the one who followed up and spawned about a page worth of man-banter with him, but I didn't really see any intent stating EBR was explicitly scum. The revote on EBR was a little unwarranted, but that's sorta it.
I still want opinions from the alliance (especially J) on the real need for an alliance, because it does feel manipulative, but I might believe the EBR push had no substance because he didn't really think he was scum.
X1-12, if you are done responding to walls than I am done responding to things which I have already explained in lengthy amounts for you to get it at this point. You have even stopped responding to the points I am making but instead dismiss it to repeating yourself over and over when I have explained as clear as I can to you.
Just clarifying. I didn't join this alliance just for the hell of it. I joined it because, as I said, I'm comfortable with the people in this alliance being town, or at least leaning town. I joined it because I feel that I could at least partially trust these people to help me find scum.
To defend Sang you point out instances where she got DH lynched. Congratz, Sang said "Guys lets vote DH he jumped on the Ran wagon then disappeared" I do not call this worthwhile content. You also think I'm am shoving the blame of DH's townflip on to Sang? No, but I do think that as town she would have realised that doing trying to lynch someone for doing exactly what she is doing (but she's doing it worse) was a terrible idea
Wait, wait, wait. Where in the world am I tunneling? Where have I stated a read, voted for somebody, backed it up with bs logic that other people had said before, and then just left?
Because it shows us who they trust and who they don't think we should lynch. I don't understand how it is not, or how it hurts town to state your strong town reads.
Did you seriously just try and apply your own self-scum-meta as a reason for why Sang is scummy is because it is something you did when you were a n00b scum?
J if you genuninely think you have important points then feel free to give me just those in a small post
Sang, J was saying that you getting DH lynched was an example of worthwhile content. I completely disagree, the case on him was weak, dumb and easy to make.
Your focus is to find scum, asking people around about someone who you already have a strong town read on is a waste of time
Sang are you really buying into that? I say I don't like your Knee-jerk reactions, I give a link to one I specifically don't like. I give an examples of newb scum acting like this and you suddenly think I'm applying my meta to you????
I still want opinions from the alliance (especially J) on the real need for an alliance, because it does feel manipulative, but I might believe the EBR push had no substance because he didn't really think he was scum.
It's because each of us is comfortable, for now, that everyone else is either town or they're leaning town and it helps us hunt scum. It's not manilpulative because, if I find something J, for example, does that is scummy, I will point it out to him. We aren't bound to help out our alliance mates, or even to back them up. How do you feel that it is manipulative?
Sang are you really buying into that? I say I don't like your Knee-jerk reactions, I give a link to one I specifically don't like. I give an examples of newb scum acting like this and you suddenly think I'm applying my meta to you????
Partially, but not really. AA had made some kind of similar argument earlier for him when he was newb scum and applying it to me. If that wasn't your intention then I apologize, but that's what it seems like to me.
EBWOP: By "Partially, but not really" I mean the buying into it. That's assuming that I'm saying that just because J did. I actually was going to make a post about that (meta'ing me, I mean) but I decided against it because it wasn't important.
Who said anything about blindly trusting each other? It's not like I'm going to just turn my back to anything scummy they might do. Besides, if a group of people are willing to collectively help me reach a goal of mine (in this case, lynch EBR/Swiss) then why wouldn't one make use of that?
EBR said:
I have a better idea. Explain to me why despite our excuse we have 10~ more posts than you, almost all of them full of content whereas the majority of your posts are hissy fits with circus complaining about getting vigged.
Besides that blatant hypocricy why do you single us out for needed to post content when there is a vast majority of the player list who have far less content than we do (yourself included)?
However, since you feel so comfortable saying we need more content, how about you give us some scum picks?
Skimmed the thread during the Night. Nothing major changed for me except Ranmaru is probably town. Took a more in-depth look at the posts made by Sword wrt Ran and re-read many of Ran's post. I have to admit I see what he was getting at with intent. However the main thing that got me was Circus' explanation of him holding strong to his reads. ScumRan is all over the place usually but Ran made several posts saying "just make sure you go after X after I'm dead" even when it was clear that he was going to be lynched (or so I thought). In retrospect looks like a townie trying to get his scumpicks pushed after his death instead of just a stubborn scum push. I would know, I have a hard on for the latter.
Vult is still scum and needs to die. Explained my read on his slot yesterDay. Mad he wasn't modkilled.
This post makes me feel even more confident in my Ran town read. If you're scum, then you're trying to transfer off of a lost cause. However, if you really are town, than obviously you're new renowned read of Ran is genuine, and I tend to trust your reads more than others. Either way, this makes a good case for ran town.
Btw, before someone asks, I'm not going to pursue rather or not this is town Kuzi genuinely transferring off of one of his reads or scum Kuzi abandoning ship. That would be pure WIFOM and I don't feel that there is any evidence to point one way or another.
EBR said:
None of my reasoning on why Ranmaru was scum had ANYTHING to do with Soup. I talked about my Soup read because Sword either asked me my read on him specifically or he asked for my scumpicks in general, I forget which. This was why I talked about Soup at all, not because of my push on Ran. Again, you obviously didn't even read my post. And you're wrong that it isn't convincing. That slot's commentary on the J vs. Sang wagon is very grimy and I've already explained why it contradicts his usual play, but why the slot hasn't been contributing much content at all. Sword disagreed and I've since asked him to explain to me what type of content Soup did contribute but he hasn't yet responded.
I don't remember you asking, but in any case I'll just do that now then.
Since Soup had almost 50 posts in this game, quoting them all would be a bothersome, so I'm going to just point out what he has said that makes me think he is town:
Soup's 77-79: Nothing really special here. However, they fit in with a theme I've noticed with him, that being that he's analytical.
I will say though that his comment on Moth in his 77 is a bit off though. Saying that "he could be scum since he hasn't posted yet" so early in the game seems unnecessary. I mean, of course he could be scum, anyone could of. What would posting of done to change that? However, I'm nitpicking here. Moving on.
Soup's 86: Slightly even better reasoning here on the AA/Sang interactions. Still nothing real special here.
Soup's 89 & 98: Just talking about lurkers here. Again, nothing special.
Soup's 135-137: I like the fact that Soup was able to point out what was wrong with what Ran was doing, but still gave him the benefit of the doubt. That feels like Soup was being considerate of the circumstances.
Soup's 140: Meh, nothing to note. Moving on.
Soup 165: Again, Soup being analytical. Noticing stuff and putting forth new material. This is what I expect out of town Soup.
Soup 167: Just a question.
Soup 170: just clarification to circus
Soup 172-176 & 178: goes against the tide of the bad Ran push. Good. Votes EBR for reasoning that appears weird at first, but later explains to EBR that he was voting him because he didn't like how EBR didn't follow up on the Ran pressure. He should of explained this earlier, but it nevertheless it seems legit to me.
Soup's 181: Tells Moth to catch up. Nothing special.
Soup's 182: just pointing out that he edited
Soup 207: Provides an additional read town read on DH (which ends up being correct unprovoked. Good. Clarifies some stuff with Circus as well.
Soup 210: just clarifying some stuff with Gova
Soup 317-318: Nothing really here
Soup 319: I'm not seeing what's so bad about this post. Yeah, he jokes around in it a lot and doesn't always go into full detail (well, quite often he doesn't), but he still gives his final read on the interaction (TvT). Plus, compared to the rest of his play, where I feel he has been giving an adequate amount of reasoning to the thing he is saying, I don't see why one post which doesn't live up to its full potential as a post should put Soup in the scum category.
I myself am okay with this post. Again, he doesn't go into full detail all the time but he does make some analysis and finishes off the post with a solid read.
Soup's 325 & 329: fluff
Soup vs. Kuz: Soup defending himself against Kuzi. Kuzi's main point here is that the post was unneeded. Soup's defense seems reasonable to me. I can see why someone would notice that something they were 'debunking'' actually wouldn't really of held worth, but still wanted to finish it anyways, since they committed to it already.
Soup's 376: Makes a point that J was reaching w.r.t. pointing out Kuzi starting out a post with "interesting" as a scum tell. Seems alright to me.
Soup's 381: Soup states that he thinks he can read Kuzi and that he's just messing around with him. Don't know about him being able to read Kuz especially well, but whatever, nothing to get hung up over.
Soup 385: Meh, bit of a buddy here of Kuz. Clarifies stuff to J. Nothing much to note.
Rest of Soup's play cause I'm too lazy to post count now: Gives town reads on me, J, and slightly Moth after being asked. Defends himself against Kuz again. Kuzi wanted him to clarify his Moth read as well as his "Kuz is being shallow" vote, which he did, to an extent, but never fully. Finishes off his play by voting DH with no reasoning. Meh, I guess so to avoid a no lynch but that's still bad admittedly.
Soup's play overall doesn't really seem bad at all, besides from some nitpicky details just as fluffy useless posts. Soup overall seemed townie to me due to his early attentive nature, so I would place him with a slight town read.
Also, since I can't really see anything especially bad Soup has done, I don't see how anyone can really give him a scum read. IMO, he should be null at worse.
Also, he has definitely done stuff, so I don't see what X1 is getting at later.
There, a nice big ISO of Soup, because I felt that would be the best way to accurately describe my feeling towards him. It's basically an all encompassing way to express this feeling that I've had about him for awhile now:
He was attentive and analytical while he was playing this game, and I like that about Soup.
J said:
Side-note: Liking EBR a lil bit more based on their last 3 posts but I haaaate their Soupa Vult push.
Okay, so what do you think of July vs. EBR then? Why are you liking EBR more now? What is it about his more recent posts that convinces you of his towningness?
Ran said:
I'm bringing attention to this again. I want everyone's thoughts on this.
Honestly, I can understand if someone was simply being lazy about reading through the thread. However, calling the Kuzi vs. J exchange "crap" is very dismissive, especially if you haven't even looked through it yet.
I was at first wierded out by seeing him cast doubt on your claim, but I scolled down a bit and saw that he said "wtf is this claim" because it threw off his guesses.
More anti-town than scummy, but still is worth notice.
@Ran's 628: J already went over this, but yeah those questions won't produce anything fruitful, so they are not worth answering.
Swiss said:
Will catch up tonight, am at work.
Is it bad I've forgotten all of my stances other than J?
You see Swiss, this is what I'm talking about. YesturDay you just left your vote on J, and where just like "Yep, I'm voting J," without any reasoning. It wasn't until the very end of the Day that you came into the game and explained stuff further, but even that was satisfactory, as already pointed out.
This reads as false scum hunting. Just voting someone just to leave it hanging, without pursuing it for a prolonged period of. The weak reasoning definitely doesn't help you on your case either.
So, I look forward to your catchup.
J said:
@Alliance: Opinion on AA. July/Swords, you two said you would be pushing EBR toDay correct? How are his current posts looking for you and would you consider joining me instead to get at Swiss over EBR? Sang, your DH wagon came up bust but that kind of was to be expected due to the nature of it. Can you also give me an update on AA since you said last he was leaning-town or null. (I can't remember which) Can you give me a second scum-pick as well? We need to do well for our fallen brethren. ;-;
AA is slightly scummy. He has generally been dismissive of actually scumhunting. His posts read of having a tendency of trying to stay under the radar. I can see this as being simple anti-town play though, so that keeps him from being total scum. He would be my inactive pick.
Also, like July said, AA coming in only when his name was put up for a vig shot is suspicious, as it's more evidence that he's lurking, rather then being genuinely inactive.
*Gets to page 17 (ppp 40)*
*sees J's 666*
Damn big post is big.
Now I'm going a bit out of order here, but anyways . . .
Eh, I think I had you at null yesturDay, but the more I think about, the more I realize that, like AA, you're also kind of reading under the radar, with your only occasional one liners.
I like the fact that you're pushing Swiss here, but I don't really like your reasoning for it. What's the point of just pointing out one post where he jokingly uses self-meta? That post is totally null, and should not be taken any other way.
Also, why single out Swiss for inactivity (I'm assuming you mean inactivity here and not lurking, unless you somehow have evidence that Swiss was actually lurking instead of simple inactivity) out of all of the inactives in this game? Seems like weak reasoning to be voting him.
Okay that's it, I keep re-reading these posts and I cannot believe my vote is not on this slot and it's infuriating me I don't have two votes to use in a situation like this but this is making me annoyed at not having my vote on someone like this.
Unvote
Vote: asianaussie
FoS: Swiss
I would really love if Acro/Raz did stuff toDay because I hate having nothing from those slots. Also something more substantial/concrete from Gova/TC would be great as well.
Oh, just so people know, I will not be allowing another lynch like yesterDay to happen and we are gonna be lynching someone who is actually scummy instead of inactive.
What do you think of RR, who is arguably like AA to?
EBR and Ran answer that question as well.
J said:
I think the reason that one post is so funny because the fact of the matter is it's July of all people doing it. IDK may just be me, but I'm done meatriding her for now.
July, it seems based on that response you despise the very existance of EBR to his very core. You planning on voting them due to it or you think they just may be that dumb according to your logic? After EBR who is your next scum-pick that isn't Swiss?
Gonna end this post here, I'm making J's 666 the point where I'll try to stay current with this game.
Anyways guys give me a break here, my eyes are going to kill themselves if I have to look at a computer scene any longer.
I'm probably going to vote for either EBR or Swiss here, haven't decide which yet. Was going to vote for Swiss but then RR got on it and now I'm hesitant.
I'm getting off the computer in about three minutes until I don't know when, probably at least an hour and a half. I'm probably never going to log into this account on my iPod. I'm hoping I can get a replacement power cord for my laptop this weekend, but it depends on the date by which I have to pay a traffic ticket.
Anyway, I disagree with my read on J. I think he's manipulative scum, but I'm not as current in this game. I'll probably read what I haven't on my iPod tonight.
What's the case on Swiss because it's been a long time since I've seen one of those that was actually good.
Who has actually presented reasons for us being scum besides July? If she's the only one with any real presence prior to this post, I'll probably just wait for Kuz to get back so he can deal with her. I don't think I've ever seen anyone change her mind on anything since I had to stop Rusty Guillotine from nose diving. I can probably leave the appearance of caring about what she thinks up to Kuz.
Vult replaced Soup. Hooray, someone else will get my AiB reference aimed at TCat. Tell my why I shouldn't lynch you for Soup's play? In actually have a ton of respect for you as a player.
X1 replaced Joey. I literally don't remember anything Joey did and haven't read anything X1 has. Sworddancer, what's your read on that slot?
Be back later tonight. Have something lined up for me to do or I'll probably make some post berating you for not doing it and disappear until whenever.
It is kind of =/ you asking me to do this when I explained this like tons of times and what I said needed more words but I guess I can try and bullet the things when I get the time. But all the stuff you need to respond to is already out here, it's just getting you to answer them.
J, was this alliance forged for funsies? I can certainly see you, the most assertive and active player, forging an alliance, but that doesn't say anything to me about your alignment, which is worrying. I can't believe that a player with 40 odd games could underestimate the effect of an 'alliance', even if it is just in writing, and even if all the members deny the alliance has any effect on them. I tossed out an offer of friendship to Sang early on in the game because I felt she would be a strong player, and that stopped me pushing seriously on her (moot point because I think she's town). Do you honestly believe an alliance was needed to recruit people for voting Swiss/EBR?
Haha it wasn't for play-play. It was for realzies. Wow that's quite the compliment that I can do a bold mood and it's null cuz it's what you expect. ^^ Did you know in my 40 games there has never been an allaince nor an experiment to try an alliance to see how it would go? I actually got this idea from something else I love and wanted to try it out. This alliance was not created for the sole purpose of getting EBR/Swiss out of the game, that was Swords' justification for joining however.
Look at what this alliance has caused AA. It has caused so much information and people are taking sides to what they think from it and I am gaining reads based off this single action and their responses.
Okay, so what do you think of July vs. EBR then? Why are you liking EBR more now? What is it about his more recent posts that convinces you of his towningness?
Just answered this but this slot is hard as hell for me because I literally look at their slot in the register and I'm like, "I don't care about you whatsoever this game." The reason I had liked EBR at that point is because they were actually doing something independant which I like to see. I never said towny Swords, I can like a slot more but still have a null read on them.
W.R.T. my EBR read, that's a slot that I can see both ways, they can be scum but they could just be town but honestly the more I think about it the less I could give a **** heh. I can't find myself to get a stable "They are town." or "They are scum." read on them and I continuously scratch my head when reading their posts. Because of this, they can die and I wouldn't care less because it's better to rid of questionable people earlier on rather than keep them around to late game to which they could either take the win or be an ML. Hypothetically, If I was an investigative role, they would be my prime candidate purely being so I can help my read on them.
I hope that helps ya a bit more and helps me get my train of thought sorted there.
Anyway, I disagree with my read on J. I think he's manipulative scum, but I'm not as current in this game. I'll probably read what I haven't on my iPod tonight.
Totally, I created this alliance for the sole purpose of manipulating those puppets of players to do my bidding and it's working like a charm. Problem?
EBR said:
What's the case on Swiss because it's been a long time since I've seen one of those that was actually good.
Who has actually presented reasons for us being scum besides July? If she's the only one with any real presence prior to this post, I'll probably just wait for Kuz to get back so he can deal with her. I don't think I've ever seen anyone change her mind on anything since I had to stop Rusty Guillotine from nose diving. I can probably leave the appearance of caring about what she thinks up to Kuz.
Way to poison the water w.r.t. July's push on you by subtly implying that all she does is tunnel her scum-reads and that she was a factor you had to stop in RG(which you didn't *cough*) and that she is just a nuisance that needs satiating. Uuuuhm, alright then.
I swear after EBR/July's wall posts I think it just became a like floodgate for others(mainly myself x_X) to post walls. I'm just posting what I wanna post and it comes out long haha reminds me of the old days.
@Allaince: Opinion on X1-12 and our exchange please.
Honestly he’s leaning town for me. I think he’s wrong, but not scummy. His posts back and forth with J dig into these points but this is the crux of his catch-up/reads:
Sang's defence to J pushing her is completely terrible. She is completely deflecting and giving very little worthwhile content. She accuses DH for tunnelling the player who looked most scummy, but she then tunnels the player who is probably the easiest to ML in this game (and was V/LA). Some of her knee-jerk reactions look very much like newb-scum to me "uhh, what I'm scummy? No your doing that too eh!"
J should probably die for how easily he is willing to drop his pushes. His attack on EBR seems completely legit but then he completely dismisses it as a pressure case. He also attacks Sang, and correctly points out that she was being massively deflecting but does nothing to follow up on this, later asking Sang to join her alliance? I dislike this alliance intently because it reads to me as people J wants to manipulate + Sang. J also has a habit (which admittedly someone already pointed out) of asking without offering her own opinion ("Look at each individual person and their joining posts into the alliance and tell me what you get from them. I'll dig each thing up in a second."#572). Furthermore, she just asked these people to join an alliance, she already thinks they are town, why the hell does she then feel the need to help people get reads on them? She's no need to try convincing people of anything wrt: people in her alliance.
Soup I don't particularly like because as EBR has pointed out, he's done basically nothing. I'm not gonna regurgitate what EBR has already said so I'll leave it at that basically. He falls below J and Sang on the scum rankings
I think Circus and Sworddancer are Town for their responses to J and his Alliance. They clearly are joining it for a reason, rather than just because. Swords said he would it it would help get EBR (his biggest scumspect) lynched, and Circus agreed on the grounds that his vig target of AA (who he was already pushing) would be considered more seriously. They're each joining/saying they might join for their own reasons. Conversely July and Sang I feel look much worse for their joining of this alliance
It means nothing, drop it. Continuing along this path will only lead to rolefishing imo.
I disagree with his reads but I at least understand his reasoning and where he is coming from. The worst part of his scum picks is Soup, for whom he just defaults to everything that EBR said which I’ve already ripped apart and Swords provided where Soup did provide useful content. So the Soup case has no value as far as I’m concerned.
J read I disagree with, but there are some good points and some bad points in there. J recently described EBR as his strongest null read and I feel like the conflict over reading EBR for J has been apparent in thread, and so I don’t find dropping the case on him inherently scummy. I do agree that in Sang v. J, J made some good points about Sang being deflective which could have been pushed further. As for the alliance, I actually like that people are questioning it, as what it means I’m sure is different to everyone in the alliance and has a different impact on how they behave. I can fully elaborate on how it affected my reads toMorrow, but I’ve been pretty happy with the results of the alliance so far and feel like it has not been an act of manipulation on J’s part.
As for his Sang read I do agree the deflecting point. I disagree on the DH wagon, I took her push as genuine. As for the part about content, I would like X1 to elaborate, do you think Sang is faking content at all, or is it just that her content is lackluster? How do you feel about AA’s content this game?
Also X1, your read on EBR?
Because J, that's not his role. It's his costume. That's the whole gimmick of this game is that no one knows their role at the start. That's why I'm of the opinion that if someone guesses the theme that they should share that way this would just be a regular mafia game and we could do away with the gimmick.
I still want opinions from the alliance (especially J) on the real need for an alliance, because it does feel manipulative, but I might believe the EBR push had no substance because he didn't really think he was scum.
I can tell you I like X1 because he came in with a goal in mind, pushing you super hard. I like that. So he's town to me. I'm not bringing in meta because I have been burned by that in Pulp Fiction.
That's all I have for now. Keep in mind I skimmed most of that [lol walls] and I'll post a catch up with my thoughts on the interactions between you two and everything else.
@J: Yes I saw where Ryker threw in the little note to discredit me as well, however I look forward to EBR's actual response to my case. And you are right, you are the one who changed my opinion on you in Rusty Guillotine; usually the only person who can change my read on a player is the player himself.
Also I feel like you and X1's argument was T v. T.
Totally, I created this alliance for the sole purpose of manipulating those puppets of players to do my bidding and it's working like a charm. Problem?
You're probably right. Said I was gonna read, but I got distracted. I have read everything after my post though. I'm probably not gonna read the stuff in the middle I'm missing unless Kuz makes me. I honestly doubt he'll make me.
Way to poison the water w.r.t. July's push on you by subtly implying that all she does is tunnel her scum-reads and that she was a factor you had to stop in RG(which you didn't *cough*) and that she is just a nuisance that needs satiating. Uuuuhm, alright then.
First off, I did have to stop her in RG because she was pushing Ran and not Smargaret. I think she also and one of you and me as scum there too. I remember YOU almost getting lynched and having to step in and stop that beyond a shadow of a doubt so it wouldn't happen after I died.
Secondly, you heard it from her, she's a pain to deal with.
Third, I'm not lying here. That was not poisoning the water hole. If you'll look back, I'm obviously holding the vile up and pouring it straight into her glass. Nothing hidden about that.
I think he's scum because the only reason Soup would vote me in this game is because he's scum. I can tell you right now that I'm in his head and he's thinking that if he shows this hydra in particular that he has a backbone, we'll call him town. In the post he voted, he stated that he agreed with our logic. Past that, I haven't paid attention enough. Kuz assures me he's still scum.
What did you highlight? Having not read it, it's probably right.
X1 town as sure as day. July's probably town? I don't think I've ever seen her actually scum hunting as scum, unless you count TT which shouldn't count.
I'm going to work my way into the game by answering questions like this.
Things that stuck out:
J makes a pretty logical argument at #435, but I DON'T like that he assumes that Mafia don't know their buddies and uses this assumption to strengthen his argument.
I don't like Sang's #437. It's whiny and doesn't have a conclusion. I remember someone else having posts like this when I was reading yesterday - will follow up on that later. I consider posts like these scummy.
And in general the exchange is just very... friendly. Makes me think of how claimed Masons would act towards each other in-thread. That kind of tone isn't really common in mafia, but apparently they know each other IRL so it's not SO so unusual.
THAT'S aforementioned post/person I was thinking of. I hate it. It's not doing anything. He doesn't say what he thinks is wrong with the claim, or make any conclusions based on it. It just looks like "blah blah blah complain complain waaaaa" to me.
Vote: AA (tentatively - subject to change as I get a handle on more players)
Vult, heyo dude. I would like to see your thoughts on AA mainly. Then tell me about July/TC in your own words. You played with TC before so I'd like to see what you think of her. Can you give me at minimum 2 scum-picks? Thank you very much.
From the few posts by her I've read, she's playing her usual game:
- not so active
- basic but relevant questions
- focusing on things other people overlook
I don't remember of any of these apply to a scum or town meta by her.
Soup I don't particularly like because as EBR has pointed out, he's done basically nothing. I'm not gonna regurgitate what EBR has already said so I'll leave it at that basically.
Can you explain the Soup read? I don't care if you regurgitate what someone else said. You're not being clear and you and Ran apparently have very different (contradicting?) reasons for suspecting him.
I still want opinions from the alliance (especially J) on the real need for an alliance, because it does feel manipulative, but I might believe the EBR push had no substance because he didn't really think he was scum.
It not even worth whining about. The alliance forms because the people in it don't suspect each other in the first place -- it's not like the alliance is protecting the members from each other. As far as I can tell, it's just a pretty name of a group for people to be in so they feel assured or organized or whatever.
@Sang & EBR: Need more from X1 before I can get a solid read, but right now he's definitely leaning town for me. Like Ran, I feel X1 is one of the more transparent people to read. His strong in-your-face pushing is what I expect out of X1.
Non meta reasoning: X1 actually has scum picks for understandable reasoning, and is going after them. I mean I disagree with the picks (maybe a little with J, I've grown a bit wary of J when he dropped the that EBR read simply because that started to do something), but still I can see where X1 is coming from with all of this.
It seems to me that Raziek is the only player who needs a prod, and he hasn't been online in a while. No prod has been sent out, but if he doesn't turn up, I will look into replacement.
I think he's scum because the only reason Soup would vote me in this game is because he's scum. I can tell you right now that I'm in his head and he's thinking that if he shows this hydra in particular that he has a backbone, we'll call him town. In the post he voted, he stated that he agreed with our logic. Past that, I haven't paid attention enough. Kuz assures me he's still scum.
What did you highlight? Having not read it, it's probably right.
X1 town as sure as day. July's probably town? I don't think I've ever seen her actually scum hunting as scum, unless you count TT which shouldn't count.
Let me put it to you this way - if you were scum, how would I pin you? Would you agree to being copped toNight, and if inno/no claim then we all go on our merry way.
