Halloween Party Mafia ~ Over! Who drowned bobbing for apples? Who won Best Costume?

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

No, i'm just taking attacking swiss as noobtown, if it was anyone else, i wouldn't care, swiss has a reputation of being ominous, you know this and i know this.

on top of Swiss voting him in the first place.

I agree on your intent of it, not the vote, you explained your reasoning and then slapped a vote on it, that's fine and dandy, but were you planning on doing something with it, it's like i said, you set yourself up for a homerun and struck out, and that is why i found it shallow.

You literally havn't answered anything that I just grilled you about.

I'm asking why Moth attacking Swiss is a newbtown tell if Moth isn't a new player and he's acting like that towards everyone.

I have zero idea what you're talking about with your analogy. I put my vote on Ranmaru with my reasoning. Your explanation doesn't explain why you found it shallow nor does it actually tell me what was shallow about it, its just a baseball analogy. Literally.

And you also havn't commented on my updated reasoning that I gave in the big post which should have cleared up any qualms you still had about it being shallow. That was your original reason for voting me and now that I've responded to it you don't even bother addressing it. Why havn't you done so? Since that is cleared up what is your current reasoning as to why I'm scum?

For all you've been talking about ignoring my posts and just basing your read on our interaction you have yet to ask me anything that you want cleared up.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

No. Sit down. Shut the **** up. Stop playing like a ******.

Ryker doesn't have a power cord to his computer so he hasn't been able to be around and therefore we havn't talked. I try not to involve myself in D1 play anyway because I only taint tells that I look for when I read through the thread (however I'm actually feeling in the mood to play some mafia today and my other game is closed so I guess I'll actually do something) so the argument that I should be more on top of this game considering the players in the hydra is complete ****. That also carries over to giving other players free passes because they are known for acting stupid as opposed to us where we're apparently supposed to be on top of things all the time and thus are scummy when we aren't. Have you read Dgray man? Asdioh tried to knee jerk a scum read of WL for those same reasons and look what he flipped. When in that game did we become productive? End of D2.

I'm not excusing my inactivity, its a null tell, but if you're trying to make an argument that this inactivity goes against our meta and thus makes us scummier than other inactives then you're either very stupid or scum.

I have yet to actually read this thread yet though I've given it a good skim. Ran lynch is still where we are going and I have no idea why Sword is saying its a dumb idea. I disagree that the scummiest thing about Ran is his scumslip, though I don't like that all the same. You say his reads are backwards which, though true, isn't the main thing to focus on with his push. Its his reasoning for his reads. There simply isn't enough content in this game to warrant the reasoning he has given for some players and he is digging to find reasoning to make scum picks work rather than just stating what they have done that was scummy, even if there wasn't that much to comment on. For instance I disagree with his scum read on you in 218 because he is taking your dislike of my Ran pressure and using it to insinuate that almost surely knew that I was right and wanted to look pro-town by defending Ran instead of just speaking your mind. Instead of what he was reaching for, it could just as easily have been you just didn't agree with my Ran push and wanted to pressure me off it. However I find it interesting, and a town tell, that Sword is trying to emulate what I did in Kingmaker in trying to go after his largest scum read regardless of reputation. However I don't like that he's insinuating things about what our inactivity means in assuming ulterior motives. I explained above why using inactivity to explain why we're scum is dumb and we're no way trying to ride off our status, we're just not playing the game. Don't even try to stretch that.

As for 104

I'm not judging Ran's questions of RVS just on the surface level, I'm looking at the intent behind them. I still don't know what type of answer Ranmaru hoped to gain from asking specific people who they found the hardest to read as well as who people's rivals are. What townie intent is there found to knowing everyone's answers to those questions, ie, what does he plan to do with those answers. Nothing should be the apparent answer because there is nothing good you can learn from them. Ran being well, Ran shouldn't explain away why that's excusable. This exact same thing happened in DGray where JTB asked a question to Bardull with no pro-town direction behind it and it got explained away by JTB just being JTB and he freaking survived until D4.

As for scum not having communication until they discovered the true theme, where did you read that? Last I remember from the rules Nabe wouldn't disclose whether there was a lack of communication or not.

Ryker wrote that post but I'm assuming Swiss or J because he feels them to be the most competent players on the list, though J is probably the most free on this playerlist from my experience.

Soup is scum. His vote on me is absolute trash and he knows it. He admits in the post right before he votes me that he thinks that my vote on Ran is warranted in his own way but still thinks that it is more shallow than other people who he thinks have boarded with little reasoning. If he thinks our vote is warranted then how does he think its also shallow at the same time? There have been hop-ons to the Ranmaru wagon that had half the reasoning we provided. Literally the only reason for his vote on us over another player for his same reasoning is to try and show that he wasn't afraid to vote for a power player and had backbone. Not to mention his commentary in his 319 is absolutely terrible and reeks to all hell. That post literally has no inferences or deductions. It is just quoting the back and forth between J and Sang and throwing in sideshow commentary in an attempt to make it look like he's contributing. There didn't need to be an analysis of the interaction. If Soup felt so strongly that said interaction was TvT why didn't he just say that and explain his reasoning instead of making a large post full of nothing. Not to mention he's selectively applying tells to Sang that he isn't doing to J throughout that post which I heavily dislike.

@Scum: If you want to have any chance of winning this game then you best kill me toNight because I will be finding you toMorrow.

@First paragraph: Thank you for the explanation about Ryker's inactivity. That helps a lot, and I know that you don't like to participate in Day, because you told me and a couple others that in the Skype chat before, so I can believe that.

However, look at this from my PoV. You were active at the start of Day 1, but as soon as I voted you guys you went inactive. Also, lets face it, with as many inactives as there is, two stronger players like you and Ryker realistically speaking could of very well slipped through the Day unnoticed.

Your right that others shouldn't be excused for inactivity. Again, what made your inactivity stand out for me is the fact that you went inactive around the time I laid my vote on you, and the fact that you were a hydra (although I'll concede this point, because of your explanation).

@Second paragraph: The thing is though is that the general point which you're making is that it simply reads much more anti-town than actual scummy. Sue me for using meta to excuse Ran, but Ran is known for making super reaching points (and yes, I'm agreeing with you here that I do believe Ran is reaching). I've seen him do it as town before, and I'm pretty you've probably seen it to, thus I believe that's the way you should be reading it as well. At worse, he should be null to you.

To me, with Ran, you can't really read him off of how consistent or well his reasoning is. It's more of simply to see if he's genuinely trying to make pro-town moves (note that I say trying, not necessarily succeeding).

@Third paragraph: You're right that Ran couldn't of really gained anything with his questions. However, I think he has made it clear that he was simply trying to stimulate discussion in a very stagnate Day. Wrt to the Ran being Ran thing, look above this paragraph. I'm not using his out of nowhere assumptions to read him, I'm simply using the fact that I think he's trying to do something for this town.

@Question: I reed it in the game specific rules. Here:

There is at least one standard mafia faction in this game. Like everyone else, they are amnesiacs and will have to guess at the true theme. Until they do, they will have no private communication. I will not reveal whether or not they know the identities of their partners. I will reveal that they do have a nightly kill, but I will not reveal the manner of its choosing.

===

Still haven't replied to other stuff. Will get to it soonish, need to run some errands first.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You literally havn't answered anything that I just grilled you about.

I'm asking why Moth attacking Swiss is a newbtown tell if Moth isn't a new player and he's acting like that towards everyone.

I have zero idea what you're talking about with your analogy. I put my vote on Ranmaru with my reasoning. Your explanation doesn't explain why you found it shallow nor does it actually tell me what was shallow about it, its just a baseball analogy. Literally.

And you also havn't commented on my updated reasoning that I gave in the big post which should have cleared up any qualms you still had about it being shallow. That was your original reason for voting me and now that I've responded to it you don't even bother addressing it. Why havn't you done so? Since that is cleared up what is your current reasoning as to why I'm scum?

For all you've been talking about ignoring my posts and just basing your read on our interaction you have yet to ask me anything that you want cleared up.

I've seen moth play before, no offense to him, but it isn't that stellar, anyways..

then if it's not newbtown tell, it's a town-tell, next question?

before you blabber on about why, it's because it is indeed anti-town the way is playing, but swiss has that reputation to do so, so if it wasn't swiss (i suppose this goes for the same thing as moth), then i wouldn't care, i would say "that's a good move from X player, Y player is playing anti-town with all of that fluff and no action."

I told you it was shallow because like a baseball analogy, you set it up, but didn't do anything with it, you had all of these people on that wagon afterwards, but you just decided to sit back and let it form, much like striking out.

Face-value still, alright, cool, you have your reasoning, awesome.

but to me, that doesn't change much, it's not hard to explain motives, i told you get a better read with stuff like this, and read now i am mulling it as we speak.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

@First paragraph: Thank you for the explanation about Ryker's inactivity. That helps a lot, and I know that you don't like to participate in Day, because you told me and a couple others that in the Skype chat before, so I can believe that.

However, look at this from my PoV. You were active at the start of Day 1, but as soon as I voted you guys you went inactive. Also, lets face it, with as many inactives as there is, two stronger players like you and Ryker realistically speaking could of very well slipped through the Day unnoticed.

Those posts in the beginning of the day were Ryker. I literally didn't read one page of this game until I woke up this morning and gave it a quick skim. Ryker actually sent me a PM of things that I should focus on during my read since we weren't really able to talk about the game. There is no correlation between your vote and our inactivity, though I can see what it may look like, because literally Ryker's activity has been nonexistant in every game due to hardware issues and, as I said, I didn't even set eyes on this game until this morning.

Your right that others shouldn't be excused for inactivity. Again, what made your inactivity stand out for me is the fact that you went inactive around the time I laid my vote on you, and the fact that you were a hydra (although I'll concede this point, because of your explanation).

See above.

@Second paragraph: The thing is though is that the general point which you're making is that it simply reads much more anti-town than actual scummy. Sue me for using meta to excuse Ran, but Ran is known for making super reaching points (and yes, I'm agreeing with you here that I do believe Ran is reaching). I've seen him do it as town before, and I'm pretty you've probably seen it to, thus I believe that's the way you should be reading it as well. At worse, he should be null to you.

To me, with Ran, you can't really read him off of how consistent or well his reasoning is. It's more of simply to see if he's genuinely trying to make pro-town moves (note that I say trying, not necessarily succeeding).

Yeah I've seen him do it as town, but I've also seen him do it as scum (I've had the privilege of being in the one game Ran was scum on dGames). That was a long time ago ofc and I'd rather meta not play a huge factor in this but I see what you're saying. However I wouldn't say that townRan isn't known for making super reaching points. He overextends himself a bit but he doesn't go this overboard. I disagree that you can't read him based on his reasoning or how consistent he is.

@Third paragraph: You're right that Ran couldn't of really gained anything with his questions. However, I think he has made it clear that he was simply trying to stimulate discussion in a very stagnate Day. Wrt to the Ran being Ran thing, look above this paragraph. I'm not using his out of nowhere assumptions to read him, I'm simply using the fact that I think he's trying to do something for this town.

If you main reasoning for him being town is the intent behind his questions answer me why scumRan couldn't do that. He was at the forefront of every push in his scum newbie, constantly bumping the thread with new insights and accusations on things. If your main argument is that scumRan would have had no reason to be active at that time, you're wrong.

@Question: I reed it in the game specific rules. Here:

Ah. I didn't realize that, my fault.

When you've caught up, Sword, can you give me your read on Moth, RR and Soup?

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

I've seen moth play before, no offense to him, but it isn't that stellar, anyways..

then if it's not newbtown tell, it's a town-tell, next question?

You're completely missing the point.

before you blabber on about why, it's because it is indeed anti-town the way is playing, but swiss has that reputation to do so, so if it wasn't swiss (i suppose this goes for the same thing as moth), then i wouldn't care, i would say "that's a good move from X player, Y player is playing anti-town with all of that fluff and no action."

What?

I told you it was shallow because like a baseball analogy, you set it up, but didn't do anything with it, you had all of these people on that wagon afterwards, but you just decided to sit back and let it form, much like striking out.

Finally you say something that I can understand. So because I didn't actively push the wagon after I got on you didn't like it? After reading my above post to sword about my activity does that reasoning still hold? Plus you've seen me set up wagons plenty of times as town and just let them sit because I wasn't interested in the game. Why do you find this troublesome now, especially when like half the wagon did the exact same thing to a greater extent.

Face-value still, alright, cool, you have your reasoning, awesome.

but to me, that doesn't change much, it's not hard to explain motives, i told you get a better read with stuff like this, and read now i am mulling it as we speak.

I'll be waiting on your diagnosis with baited breath.

g2g break up with gf bbl crying tears of joy

 

[ranmaru]

@EBR: I gave new reads in my #218

Earlier on I liked J stating he would vote Sang since I have a null leaning scum read on her. I would most likely want to support his push on her, but I just don't like how he unvoted Circus. ;-; (He said he agreed with Circus's push on me which is why he unvoted for that time) I also don't understand him defending Soup, because I did see some fence sitty ness from soup. I was reading over inception mafia the other day, and knowing J was mafia, he seemed to always challenge people about Tandora. For example I would link J to Tandora and he'd attack me for it. So I think he would ask about a scumbuddy alot if the person's statement about them was unclear. If Soup flipped scum, I'd look at J afterwards. Circus too. So I now have him as null scum. So I liked his earlier pushes but I don't like his late pushes.

Acrostic, recently gave a few stances. Or rather, he said he would be looking into Sang/Tcat/July so I still have a null on him until he gives further content.

Sang, has alot of null leaning reads and has two scum reads, Swiss and DH. Out of Dh and Swiss I'd feel DH has a higher chance of being scum, but I'm not that confident in either of them being scum. : P My read is un changed. I'll need to re-read her though.

That's about it for now. Nothing else is unchanged from that reads list.

@Swords: I felt his push was legit because he was being pro-active, thus I liked it. I do agree that his recent reasoning doesn't really help. What he says can be null. What J says about scum possibly pushing really hard doesn't really stick out to me because that's just a possibility. Plus I don't really like the reasons for his wagon.

Again, RR needs to give more scumpicks, or back up his push on me since he hasn't replied to me.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Hooooow about a real post from you eh? You've hidden for a bit then come in to poke at EBR to post a real post? Are you hiding your real post from us? Is Swiss still your strongest scum-read? What do you think of Sang? Whaaaat about this EBR wagon? By the tone of this post, you seem to dislike them.

Guess I'll start with this post. Sorry about yelling at you before but it pisses me off when I finally have real things to say and my day is totally eaten.

First off, EBR only had one real post so I wanted to see a follow up. Especially since I think the EBR wagon is total bull****. There was almost literally NOTHING to work with when the wagon was started.
Voting him to "show you're not scared" is not only the dumbest thing you can do, it says to me that you ARE scared of him both because you feel the need to prove you're not and because you've voted him so you must want him gone.

Swiss is still my strongest scum read, but I'm willing to lynch Ran due to time constraints. Extending the deadline is a waste of time. Ran is a good lynch for information and a lot of people think he's scummy. Personally I don't see it but I don't really see him as town either. I'd put him as null but it's more like he's at both extreme at the same time. I just can't tell with his retardedly stupid play. Though I hate excusing people on bad play meta so Vote: Ranmaru.

My final opinion on the matter is that it's a good and viable lynch. Anyone who doesn't vote Ranmaru will be considered voting No Vote until another lynch becomes clearly viable within the deadline. Of course anyone who votes No Vote D1 is scum on my list.

Also you can consider all of the above as my explanation referenced in my previous post.

Sang is null. Your convo with Sang is null. And bleck.

Right now my top three scumpicks are Swiss, J, DH in that order.
I strongly agree with the DH hate. Coming in and leaving a vote on the most popular wagon and leaving is super scummy, not just anti-town. That kind of thing doesn't just go away.

More in a bit, I have to find quotes.

 

[ranmaru]

Shadow Moth, I would like you to explain:

Why don't you see me as town?
Why don't you see me as scum?
What part of my play do you believe is stupid?
Who says I'm excusing myself?
What do you think of the people excusing my play with meta?

 

[Shadow Moth]

Likely inactive until Saturday morning my time - GMT.

Not read thread but ctrl+f'd my name (scumslip amirite?). Lynch me and you lose the best player in the game (debatable Ryker, debatable).

I want J, Moth and Sang dead as of my latest whims. I forget my old posts but I'm sure they're right.

This post just makes me not like you more.

Okay, I've reed the thread, and first thing's first.

Request: Deadline Extension

We have no set path for toDay, and I do not want to scramble for a lynch, like we are at this point.

I feel like a couple of people haven't answered my questions yet. Soup and Swiss are two I think. J's responded to me so he's good.

Anyways, before I responded to anything toDay, I have to talk about EBR. Tbph, I had no idea rather or not they would be my final vote for toDay. They were my first because I wanted explanation from them for just what they were thinking with their Ran suspicion, because it seemed nonsensical to me, as already explained, and it still does. I appreciate that they helped to get the game moving, but that said, they have done absolutely nothing else so far this game. As soon as the pressure came on to them, they started to coast through the Day. I really do think that they are simply trying to ride off of their weight that they have, in the sense that they know no one will attack them for the very reason that they are Ryker and Kuzi. This is why I call everyone out to the challenge of having enough balls to vote for players I feel they fear.

They are a hydra, and thus have even less reasoning for inactivity.

I hear some people calling DH dead weight. Tis is true. DH has jumped on one an easy wagon and simply has left it to that. However, he has the benefit of being partially reed as dumb townie, which is why I would put EBR > him.

Ran lynch is dumb. Trying to kill Ran for simply having bad reads is dumb, which is what it appears a lot of you want him dead for. You guys seriously need to differentiate between someone being anti-town and actually scummy. The most legit piece of "evidence" against Ran is his scum slip, but I'm simply not fully convinced by that. Feels like a mistake a townie could make, and plus it just doesn't line up with the other things Ran is doing which makes me feel that he is a townie.

Speaking of Ran, Ran, you still haven't really answered my question. How is EBR's suspicion of you legit? He went way out of his way to plant suspicion on you. Also, maybe you can't see this from your pov, but, he definitely is also accusing you of something that, from his PoV, he could of seen you doing as a townie.

I will only vote Ran if there is literally no other option for toDay and we need a lynch.

Responding to stuff in another post, I just wanted to get important stuff out into a separate post first.

Bolded and colored what I'm looking at.

We're not scrambling for a lynch really. Ran is a good lynch and there's not much reason we shouldn't lynch him at this point.

Not entirely sure what you're saying here but it sounds like you're trying to say you're letting DH off as dumb town. Why? Why should DH get excused for scummy play and someone else get put up for a lynch who isn't even scummy.

It's not just bad reads, it's all around bad play. And what's wrong with lynching someone who's being anti-town? If town can't agree on who's scum why should we lynch someone random rather than someone who's anti-town? You yourself said we're "scrambling for a lynch" so you can't really tell me we can agree on scum at this point. I could go on about this paragraph but you get the point.

I was about to make a post challenging a lot of people to wagon you to get you to talk, but I see you're here now. So, I'm going to assume a real good post with updated reads is on it's way, no?

"Challenging people to wagon you"? I don't like the sound of that at all. That sounds like when I tell my campers "Hey I bet you can't run to that tree," to get them to move faster. It sounds like you're baiting people into pushing him to a claim just for being inactive.

hurr durr 1rst grade English

*1st
Hurr durr 1st grade english.

Moth is okay, i find his vote on swiss a bit of a shock to me, but not too much of a shock, i'm taking it as just reading people in context rather then what they usually play like, and swiss is that case here, i can see this being a noobtown tell as swiss is such an ominous player.

A shock? You find it shocking that I think Swiss is scummy not only for OMGUS voting me but putting me as scum when I hadn't really posted anything?
And to any little ***** who feels the need to whine about it being so "obviously scummy" or "that's just swiss." I hate both those arguments. "Obviously scummy" is a total assload of wifom and all of you know it. And I might not have made it obvious in previous games but I'm absolutely disgusted by people just writing off super anti-town play as meta.
I don't care if you have the biggest town read on them you've ever had on anyone. Even if I have a town read on them THAT'S ANTI-TOWN. ANTI-TOWN MEANS BAD FOR TOWN.

Shadow Moth, I would like you to explain:

Why don't you see me as town?
Why don't you see me as scum?
What part of my play do you believe is stupid?
Who says I'm excusing myself?
What do you think of the people excusing my play with meta?

@first two questions: I said exactly the opposite. That I feel both ways, not neither way. Honestly your play seems like you're just milling around trying to throw people off, but at the same time you haven't really done anything that sticks out to me as scummy other than just not playing well.

I think your logic is stupid. You arrive at conclusions I can't even see someone arriving at if they TRIED to misconstrue something.

If I didn't make it clear in the previous quote, I ****ing hate excusing bad play with meta. I don't have any more to say about it.

 

[Shadow Moth]

And J, I know you asked me to look at July and TCat earlier, but I don't really see it as relevant to toDay so I'm going to look at them when I'm not exhausted from an 11 hour work day.

 

[ranmaru]

You did not say the opposite. You said BOTH. You said "I'm not feeling it, but I also don't see any townienes"

I'm not trying to throw people off. State where you THINK I have tried to do that, and state why you think it is me throwing people off. Quotes etc.

Which logic? Be more specific, Shadow. Then tell me why it's bad logic.

I asked you about the people excusing my play. For example Swords and Circus. Is this a null tell? Scum tell? What?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Going to a smashfest real soon. If we haven't reached a deadline extension by the time I've gotten back then I will probably vote Ran for the sake of the lynch. I have Ran at slight dumb town but I'll rather his lynch than a no lynch.

Here's everything which I've caughten up with so far


===

July, what was the point of your 199? Why go through so much effort to list off a bunch of town and null reads?

^working up from this post btw.

Really, I'm shady? You should definitely show what I've done that is shady because I think you're full of it.

That's just the thing, you haven't really done anything. I called you shady back then because of how you avoided commentating on anything when stuff has definitely happened. People shouldn't have to ask you questions for you to know that.

it wasn't much, but it was something.

Well you state that EBR's vote on me looked bad. Thus that was not good reasoning, because his push seemed legit, although wrong. Essentially, you didn't really look if his intentions were that of scum, but you picked sides. Thus why I think you are scum. No, I didn't take my scum read on Circus and you back. Just on the other three related to my mistake.

Sorry Ran, I missed this.

I believe the scum motivation was, simply put, to paint someone as scummy rather than actually find scum. The evidence I use for this is their bad, overly-elaborate logic.

EBR's idea of an elaborate scum plan is BS, but when asking this, are you really expecting him to explain a reason behind throwing those names out?

Of course I was, why wouldn't I be? If someone states that person x and y are scumbuddies together, then I'm going to assume they had reasoning for saying that. If they don't state said reasoning, then I think it's only fair that I ask them about it.

===

Okay, haven't fully caught up, only up to about 260, which is the end of the J vs. Sang commentary.

@Kuzi: Soup is slight town for me. I'm not convinced of his scumminess, even if you think he made an off color post. I think Soup has been analytical in other ways which makes me feel alright about him.

Moth is null, maybe slight scum. Tbh I haven't observed him fully yet, but he's kinda pushing the wrong areas right now. Seems overly antagonistic, which I take as a minor tell because it seems fakish to me (for example, as I remember it his response to J was definitly a bit over the top).

Btw Moth I'll try to reply to you when I get back but I'm kinda rushing right now.

Sang is null, maybe slight newbie town. Have not picked up any tells from her, but not any real town tells either. She's picked up in activity though, so that's good. I'm glad she's willing to face people like she did with J, which is where the "maybe slight newbie town" comes from.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Deadline in 15 hours. Ran is the closest to lynch at L-3. I don't think we have enough time anyway, but if we want to have any hope of switching Ran needs to claim. At the moment the only switches that I see remotely possible are Dark Horse and Swiss, and we aren't lynching Swiss.

@Ran: Claim. Also your J read in 406 looks very predicated on J agreeing with your scum picks. You had him as null town because he agreed with one of your scumpicks, Sang, but now that he has unvoted your other scumpick and now calls Sang town he's scum. And though J is defending Soup I didn't really get the sense that he was chainsawing him. When I told him that townSoup didn't give sideshow commentary he
said he would look through other games and fact check that (he didn't completely dismiss me). Whether he actually does it remains to be seen but yeah it doesn't look like a chainsaw.

 

[ranmaru]

I am Wicket W. Warrick. I'm town.

He is from Star Wars Ep VI

Wooo lo wooooooooo

 

[asianaussie]

ridiculous amount of crap and i am in no mood to sift through this ****

wrt the huge J vs EBR, i again implore J to stop flirting in-thread

wtf is that claim

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

@Kuzi: Soup is slight town for me. I'm not convinced of his scumminess, even if you think he made an off color post. I think Soup has been analytical in other ways which makes me feel alright about him.

Moth is null, maybe slight scum. Tbh I haven't observed him fully yet, but he's kinda pushing the wrong areas right now. Seems overly antagonistic, which I take as a minor tell because it seems fakish to me (for example, as I remember it his response to J was definitly a bit over the top).

Btw Moth I'll try to reply to you when I get back but I'm kinda rushing right now.

Sang is null, maybe slight newbie town. Have not picked up any tells from her, but not any real town tells either. She's picked up in activity though, so that's good. I'm glad she's willing to face people like she did with J, which is where the "maybe slight newbie town" comes from.

Agreed on bottom 2. Obviously disagree on Soup. Can you quote for me where Soup has been analytical in other ways? I literally can't remember a single thing.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

A shock? You find it shocking that I think Swiss is scummy not only for OMGUS voting me but putting me as scum when I hadn't really posted anything?
And to any little ***** who feels the need to whine about it being so "obviously scummy" or "that's just swiss." I hate both those arguments. "Obviously scummy" is a total assload of wifom and all of you know it. And I might not have made it obvious in previous games but I'm absolutely disgusted by people just writing off super anti-town play as meta.
I don't care if you have the biggest town read on them you've ever had on anyone. Even if I have a town read on them THAT'S ANTI-TOWN. ANTI-TOWN MEANS BAD FOR TOWN.

town read on moth solidified.

 

[ranmaru]

Well my J read is slightly connection based. Just keep it in mind for after ToDay. ;p

 

[ranmaru]

ridiculous amount of crap and i am in no mood to sift through this ****

wrt the huge J vs EBR, i again implore J to stop flirting in-thread

wtf is that claim

Lol what do you mean by that?

 

[July]

July's post, wow talk about getting more then ya ask for eh girly? Thank you so much for that lengthy post. However I find something odd with it. In your first paragraph you manage to dance around giving definite reads on every "active" player or say, "They are all town and I like what they are doing but I (agree/disagree) with _____" in a simple jist. In fact, you go more into explaining your inactive reads more so which is just perplexing/seems like a backwards way to do things.

What do you think of the inactives since a majority of them have become the active players now?

Haha yeah I kind of got on a roll there

Definitely didn't mean to dance around definitive reads, I just really felt like the issue lied more in the inactives/barely actives than active players at the time. I'll expand on them though, for you J:

Ran- Town read. His RQS questions did two things that I don't think scum would want to do. First, they put him in the limelight, and he became a target and a topic of discussion more than the questions themselves. Second, he tried to push a stagnant thread into activity and out of RVS and get conversation going. I also don't think there is anything innately wrong with the questions he asked; some people have cited where they could be used for anti-town purposes but I didn't see it that way, and people have used the information to start discussion and get reads (Circus asked me about J being the hardest person for me to read, for example). I disagree with his reads, but I pretty much always disagree with his reads and that doesn't affect my read on him.

Circus- Leaning town. He has pointed out a lot of key phrases in people's posts, things that either aren't accurate, or infer someone knows something as a fact such as a person's alignment, and he's asked people to clarify those posts which makes me think he's pretty attentive and with the exception of Ran's "scum slip" he hasn't been accusative with his questioning which makes me think he is actually scumhunting and clarifying his reads through questioning. I also agree with him that Gova/Raziek are good to keep an eye on out of everyone in the lurking group because they made comments about activity without attempting to contribute themselves.

Swiss- Null. He was more active early in the Day and put out some general questions to the people he never played with and questioned Shadow Moth for his possible real, possible play vote on Swiss which I thought was warranted (Swiss' pressure being warranted, some of the other pressure not so much). Since then I saw him throw out some new scum picks with the promise of an explanation later, but Sang pointed out that two of those scum picks are people that have voted for him so I really want to see his justification for his changed reads.

J- Leaning town. Early on I had a null read based on interactions with Circus that I didn't see going anywhere, but J has since followed up on some of those questions and I like the interactions with Sang and EBR, but even more the pressure on Shadow Moth to contribute when we are so close to the deadline. A more relaxed, joking J than I'm used to seeing but I like it, it seems like more of a focus on scumhunting and getting reads through questioning and pressure rather than making cases and accusations.

EBR- Leaning scum. His extensive #334 wasn't per se bad, but it was just a lot of information and not a lot of analysis. His reasons for the Ran lynch seem like simple complacency and he doesn't want to let players be excused for acting stupid. Which is fair enough, and I don't agree with people having a town read on Ran "because he's Ran" and dismissing his actions. However, that is not the case for some people, myself included, who think Ran had pro-town intentions in mind with his actions. Furthermore most of his reasons for a Ran lynch divulge into things EBR doesn't like about Swords, and his Soup read seems to be based solely on his post about Sang v. J which isn't convincing. Also I don't like his #337 and #338 because they are pretty abrasive, however J and Kuz often battle it out to get a read on each other so I'm going to put those posts as null.

Red Ryu- Null leaning slightly town. His reasons for Ran scum seem to be the most genuine, and while I disagree with his analysis of Ran's questions he seems to have really thought it through and is one of the few people to provide WHY he sees scummy intentions behind the questions. He also expresses some concern about Swiss, which I understand considering his play as of late. His commentary during the J/Kuz thing and asking it to stop I didn't like; that's one of those things that's best to just let happen and comment on AFTER the fact. However, his sights seem to be set on Ran and he seems to believe in Ran as the correct lynch for toDay, so I can see him trying to steer the conversation back to Ran and lynch talk. Would like to see more from him on more people toMorrow.

Soup- Leaning town. His reasons for a town read on Ran and not liking the Ran wagon are definitely in line with my opinion and he seems to be looking into intentions. He also seemed to push Circus for his reasoning and to get at his intentions which is something I've had a hard time reading into with Circus so that seems like genuine scum-hunting as well. The Sang v. J sideshow commentary didn't bother me, it got boring towards the end but he showed his thought process of reading J and Sang from it, so I think its a decent post.

Dark Horse- Leaning Scum. My read really hasn't changed on him, I still feel like he was the least genuine to join the the Ran wagon and when he did his reasons were generic or issues already addressed by other players. I would prefer his lynch over Ran and EBR toDay.

Recently More Active

Sang- Null leaning scum. I feel like some of her pushes have been good and looking for information, however her direct push against J did not set well with me because there was a lot of turning things back on J and "challenging" J through a bit of taughting without actually applying much real pressure. However, I very much agree with her that Ran is not the lynch and that Dark Horse would be a good lynch for toDay. Definitely someone I want to keep an eye on toMorrow and see how she interacts with her reads/scum picks.

aa- Null. He's been more active but I still don't feel like I've gotten many reads from him, I haven't seen him really pushing anyone or applying pressure to scum picks. Definitely need to see more from him toMorrow.

Shadow Moth- Leaning scum. He said his original vote on Swiss was for play, and then provides a very vague reasoning for Swiss scum and revotes him, but I don't see it as a strong read or strong reasoning from him. His most recent post is really aggressive and I disagree that Ran is a good lynch, and i disagree that Ran has been anti-town and the comment "what's wrong with lynching someone who is being anti-town"? It just reeks easy, and easily justifiable, lynch to me. I do agree that DH shouldn't be excused as dumb town.

Swords- Leaning town. Hasn't posted much but when he has he seems to be focusing on important things, getting into content and trying to push the conversation forward. He also was one of the first ones to push EBR for his response to Ran's questions, and I think he did so really well and looked at it from a lot of different points of view, questioning Ran and EBR in the process and seeing Ran's intent more clearly than EBR's.

Still not liking Gova, would like answers to my questions from him. Acrostic I believe has posted a bit more but nothing that stands out to me, still null. TC I like so far, need to see more though. Anyone else I haven't mentioned, I don't remember and are still null.

Every time you ask me about a read I do this because its the only way I can stay on top of things and keep everything everyone has done straight in my head.

Btw, If I offered my hand would you take it? Cuz if you did, I'd be really happy.

I takes hand :D first image I've ever posted in a game, is adorable :3

Err I think that provides my input on everything important since my last post, my lynch list looks like this:

DH>EBR>Ran. I will vote Ran only if my vote is needed to ensure there is a lynch toMorrow.

Unvote, Vote: Dark Horse

 

[July]

@Swords: Because in a game this large organizing my thoughts into said lists is the only way for me to stay on top of things, get my reads organized and keep track of all the people that I need to hear more from, are painfully null, etc. And if I'm going through the effort to read through the thread and get a read on everyone, I'm posting it.

 

[July]

Also, since I already had a town read on Ran this probably isn't surprising, but I believe his claim.

DH wagon needs to be a go, Ran isn't the lynch toDay.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Sang- Null leaning scum. I feel like some of her pushes have been good and looking for information, however her direct push against J did not set well with me because there was a lot of turning things back on J and "challenging" J through a bit of taughting without actually applying much real pressure. However, I very much agree with her that Ran is not the lynch and that Dark Horse would be a good lynch for toDay. Definitely someone I want to keep an eye on toMorrow and see how she interacts with her reads/scum picks.

I wasn't making a push on J, or if I was it wasn't intentional. I was just getting annoyed that he kept asking me all of these questions. Now, it wouldn't have made much of a difference to me if he had or hadn't except he had made a comment on how both of us were in the same boat and how come I wasn't calling him out on it, so I started to.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Well my J read is slightly connection based. Just keep it in mind for after ToDay. ;p

Could you elaborate? In fact, could you tell me your read on J and why. And, if you think he's scum, could you speculate on who you think could be his scummates?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

This is a loaded question, if i've ever seen one, all J did was comment on providing content in a better manner then just fluff; this is going to be interesting.

I think the joke/sarcasm slipped over my head at the time but I was severly annoyed.

you lost me there, you're pseudo defending your actions.

huh?

I could agree to that, but not over EBR, kuz and ryker are good players and they are choosing to lurk.

What do you think now that he's semi-active?

Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but the vote is extremely shallow if they aren't going to do anything with it, it's like setting up for the grand slam and striking out, they had all that build-up on ran and easily have people voting them, but they feel content to just sit here and let the wagon commence, not caring about anything else, it would be different if we some sort of i don't know, input.

and how do we get input? we vote that son of a ***** until he is forced to give us content, that is unless he's okay with swinging from trees for the rest of his life.

What do you think of his latest posts?

but..why the quick vote off swiss? no matter.

Because a DH lynch seems much more likely and I was going through the trouble defending as to why I think that DH is scum.

 

[Shadow Moth]

what do you guys think about Ran telling us what he guessed last night?

I'm personally for it since I think the benefit would be greater to town than to scum.

 

[asianaussie]

im all for shadow moth's suggestion, because his claim threw all my potential guesses off track

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Right now my top three scumpicks are Swiss, J, DH in that order.
I strongly agree with the DH hate. Coming in and leaving a vote on the most popular wagon and leaving is super scummy, not just anti-town. That kind of thing doesn't just go away.

Why do you think J is scum? Also, why don't you vote DH with me instead of voting Ran?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

what do you guys think about Ran telling us what he guessed last night?

I'm personally for it since I think the benefit would be greater to town than to scum.

What could we possibly get from this?

 

[Shadow Moth]

Why do you think J is scum? Also, why don't you vote DH with me instead of voting Ran?

Because a Ran lynch is much more viable and I'm perfectly fine with it.

I think J is scum because his push on EBR seemed real and that was a damn stupid push and I know J isn't usually that dumb. Jumping on someone's wagon when they've barely posted in late D1 is scummy imo. Unless of course they're the inactive lynch.

 

[#HBC | J]

Wasn't going to post but I saw Moth's suggestion to get Ran to tell us what he guess and just NO. Nonononononono please don't do that.

If Ran tells us who he suggested, it helps mafia and hurts town more. Yes, town could get some good out of it, but so does mafia. Just noooo, keep all guessing/guesses to oneself.

 

[Shadow Moth]

If Ran tells us who he suggested, it helps mafia and hurts town more. Yes, town could get some good out of it, but so does mafia. Just noooo, keep all guessing/guesses to oneself.

But that could go the other way too. Explain to me why town benefits LESS from it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Because a Ran lynch is much more viable and I'm perfectly fine with it.

I think J is scum because his push on EBR seemed real and that was a damn stupid push and I know J isn't usually that dumb. Jumping on someone's wagon when they've barely posted in late D1 is scummy imo. Unless of course they're the inactive lynch.

Did I ever call EBR scum? Yes, the push was real, but it wasn't a scum-pick push. It was a push on a slot that hadn't done much and what they had done, I didn't care for.

Plus they were inactive, like completely before recently.

Can you tell me the difference to what I did to EBR and what I did to Sang?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Because a Ran lynch is much more viable and I'm perfectly fine with it.

I think J is scum because his push on EBR seemed real and that was a damn stupid push and I know J isn't usually that dumb. Jumping on someone's wagon when they've barely posted in late D1 is scummy imo. Unless of course they're the inactive lynch.

So, in terms of scumminess, I'm guessing you have it Ran > DH. Because, if it was the other way, you could vote with me, get this wagon going in hopes that people get here and, if that doesn't work, you can always switch your vote back.

 

[#HBC | J]

But that could go the other way too. Explain to me why town benefits LESS from it.

Mafia gains their communication ability, and get to find out who their buddies are which is a very important asett for mafia. I'd assume they also get PRs too to boot. By mafia gaining more stuff, town benefits less. Town may get some PRs, but regardless it only helps one person out. I just don't see how the town could benefit more by having people tell who they guesses (I've gone over a few scenarios in my head based on the game mechanic).

 

[#HBC | J]

Sang dear god you are scary. Stop posting what I wanna towards Moth like questions on things but it's like ";___; she beat me to it....again...."

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@J. That seems to be happening a lot to us...

BUT. What if Ran got it wrong? That wouldn't necessarily help us or hurt us... well it could but... ugh WIFOM hurts.

 

[#HBC | J]

@J. That seems to be happening a lot to us...

BUT. What if Ran got it wrong? That wouldn't necessarily help us or hurt us... well it could but... ugh WIFOM hurts.

That's why you drop WIFOM at the door, Sang. It's like when A(you know who) always starts the game by claiming, "I'm a villager" and it's like "grrrr, she does that every game dammit!" ya know?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I think J is scum because his push on EBR seemed real and that was a damn stupid push and I know J isn't usually that dumb. Jumping on someone's wagon when they've barely posted in late D1 is scummy imo. Unless of course they're the inactive lynch.

Is there anything other than this? Becuase, I didn't see him as jumping on a wagon. And, technically, EBR would have been the inactive lynch.

 

[#HBC | J]

Also if he did get it wrong, it eliminates possibilities to what the flavour good be. Even if he guessed wrong, it can still work against us/help mafia.

Anyways, just don't claim your guesses heh. That is simple bottom line. It's anti-town and not a good way to scum-hunt.