I went back to do an ISO on both Zen and Gova for concrete examples.
Soup, Glyph, JTB, Raz when your on don't forget to state whether you will vote X1 or not. I know Laundry wont regardless of alignment.
It's weird for Zen to have named these guys, but not include Gova. As far as I can tell, Gova had not voted at that point and had not made a strong statement in regards to X1. Why was he excluded from the list? The other players who are not named in the quoted post had been vocal or voted at that time.
Let's lynch X1.
Also Laundry is second scum.
Zen pushes for X1 the whole of D2 and whenever he gets a chance he suggests that WL is scum. As mafia, Zen know that X1 isn't part of the mafia faction, so what does he gain by constantly putting suspicion on WL?
We know at this point that we believe there is an independent SK based on the N1 kill. Based the heads up of WL and Zen with X1's VT flip, I conclude that WL and Zen are not same faction. I am inclined to believe WL is town instead of indy.
Gova if you get online you should hammer. I don't trust Laundry to do so.
Note on this post Zen specifically calls out Gova for the hammer. Since it is definitely an 11th hour hammer, no one is going to fault Gova regardless of X1's flip. A NL hurts the game more than a mislynch especially after D2's terrible activity.
Still I have to ask "Is Zen using Gova as a puppet or is he giving Gova some town cred?" Based on the previous post I noted, I'm leaning on the second as being most likely.
Immidiately after I get into the game and call X1 out on being scum, he started to mention Laundry. Before this he hadn't had any sort of scum read on him. But today all the sudden he starts to mention him and eventually calls him scum. When X1 was asking all those questions earlier (695) he didn't bring attention to laundry, but immidiately after my 710 calling him out, he starts to call out Laundry out of no where in 713. That's when it first caught my attention that they are probably buddies and X1 wanted to set up some distance if I gone through with lynching him. Just now in X1's 789 he puts laundry down as scum despite never having him as scum before. The first time he even mentions a glance of suspicion of Laundry is in his 741, and even there it's not a scum stance. So why then would he suddenly put Laundry as scum during this interval? Bus is what I think.
I included this post because it once again emphasizes Zen's push for WL. Zen probably had no reason to believe he would nightkilled, so he's firmly establishing who he thinks is scum so he'll have a target for D3.
Now Gova's posts. The following post is Gova's reads after a couple of "I'm catching up" posts...just like Zen.
K, I'm all caught up now. I'll take Boat, LAK, and Raziek as town all for the shenanigins that was Ryker's gambit. I'd be ok with a JTB and X1 lynch, I like the points WL brings up agianst X1 and I can agree to the fact that JTB's play is a little off color, I also don't like the subtle buddying imo that he did with Ryker near the beginining. Can't say much in the way of Soup v Wash other than that I feel WL is making out Soup's play to be worse than it actually is. Town hunting isn't that bad but if Soup had continued to do it I guess it would be more of a problem. T-Blocks case against Joey has a lot of legit points but I can't tell if that is just because Joey is being too sporadic to remember his own stances and as a result keeps contradicting himself. I think that's everything.
Note he's comfortable naming some town reads and some null reads, but no strong anti-town reads. Note the bolded is who Gova is okay with lynching.
Still null because I'm not sure if Joey was just being sporadic and contradicting himself as town or if he's actually scum, I might have a better idea though once I read where X1 said Joey forgot about DKR because that's definitely hard to beleive. I don't think he'd forget a game like that.
The other inactives are cramping my style.
Well, these conversations came after your question but if you'll accept it I think WL is town now. Oh and I guess I want to know why JTB thinks that one statement that he quoted by Tandora is a scum slip.
More wishy washy thoughts.
What's there to talk about regarding Soup? I'm pretty sure he's town as he been playing the same as he has been every game he's been town in. That's not to say that he couldn't play the same way as scum where all he does is give town reads but I think it would be quite easy to catch him in contradicting stances when he tries to push a lynch or if he lets one go through when he has someone listed as a town read.
I'm not sure what JTB's attack at Glyph is other than inactivity and that fishing. I don't agree with the fishing being scummy in this case as the miller fake claim was controversial enough to warrent a few questions as to why T-Block definitely knew that Boat was town.
I don't give much credit to meta. I do remember Zen pushing you in SH but I'm not sure what would have happened as you were modkilled because you broke a restriction and as such I can't really compare the push here. If his push is backed up with stuff I will consider it.
Did you answer WL's question on why it's ok for JTB to push inactives but not Tan?
Another Gova post where he's not taking any stances but simply citing his thoughts. But mostly importantly look at the part I bolded. Essentially he's saying scum can play by giving lots of town reads by contradictions can be used to lynch someone listed as town. Kinda similar to Gova's been doing, right?
@WL, X1 would tunnel regardless of alignment. If he thinks someone is scum he'll tunnel as town. If he can construe something as scummy he'll tunnel as scum.
This post sort of answers WL's question of "Does X1 tunnel as town?", but really it looks helpful but isn't.