Gurren Lagann Mafia - Game Over - Who Lost the Most?

[Gova]

Zenny, Gova, X1, Boat, Glyph, and AA:

Thoughts on Tblock?
What are your new thoughts of Tandora (replacing Joey)
What are your thoughts of the other inactives?
Thoughts of recent conversations?

Thx sweeties. ;O

Still null because I'm not sure if Joey was just being sporadic and contradicting himself as town or if he's actually scum, I might have a better idea though once I read where X1 said Joey forgot about DKR because that's definitely hard to beleive. I don't think he'd forget a game like that.

The other inactives are cramping my style.

Well, these conversations came after your question but if you'll accept it I think WL is town now. Oh and I guess I want to know why JTB thinks that one statement that he quoted by Tandora is a scum slip.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Tblok baby I asked the mod a while ago and clarified that it could not be disclosed.

Tandora Darling, try to ignore the pics if you don't like them. They are the image equivalent of people calling others idiots, jerks, or stupid, dumb town etc. Just try to filter it and comment on the important things hun, for example some of the events X1 has listed to you.

X1: That wasn't why I called him scummy hun. Votes are fine but his reasoning was bad bad bad! He said that he was going to vote Tandora regardless because he didn't feel like dealing with a replacement , so he wasn't considering giving her the chance to give content and help us get a better read on her. I don't like how you try to shift it to his 'vote being bad' when I wasn't talking about the vote itself, but the reasoning that came along with it, and I don't see how you would just zoom in on "Voting ain't so bad" when I didn't say that his vote was scummy. grrr. I don't know what makes you think I was talking about a possible hammer either and I didn't think that he did so this is really stupid and I feel this is scummy from you trying to defend him for some crap reason. Grr. FoS: X1 Explain yourself plz hunny.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

@Gova:

Yes I do think he would do such things. Again I know he would defend things hardcore but I need to see if he would defend someone on purpose as scum since that's what he knows to do. I only liked Tblock's two last points in his case on Joey so I think you should look at those and give me your thoughts on them hun.

Eh hehe I bet. ; )

I agree on your WL stance. I also do want to know about that.

 

[Tandora]

Tandora, have you read the case on Joey? Please get it clear in your mind right now that we are not attacking your playerslot for Joey's emotional play. So when you said this line...

"Those of you who have played with Joey before know he tends to get upset when he's town because he is emotionally invested."

...you're not defending anything.

The original case is post 159. I'm not asking you to say town/scum or anything. Do you see the inconsistency in his play?



Please elaborate. Can you pull up posts from Raziek that give you the town read? From what I've seen his questions have been addressed to inactives, have concerned flavour/mechanics, or have been used as a means to defend himself. Nobody is really thinking Raziek is scummy because of the role fishing anymore.

To be honest, no I have not read up the case on Joey. I know what my playerslot is and it is not reasonable for me to try to defend why he did what he did. I have no clue why Joey did what he did, I can only speculate which is what I have done.

I feel Raziek is town from his early posts. He showed genuine confusion and aggravation at not knowing why LAK was posting the way they were. He wasn't willing to ignore something that was bothering him. Instead he tried to ask questions and even made sure to watch the anime to get the flavor.

I don't feel his posts are empty fluff or useless questions. He's doing the research to get better reads on people. I'll try to pull up specific lines later. I only had a few minutes to post before heading out.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Tandy darling I do feel you should defend the slot and address the case because Joey WAS your slot and you have to pick up for his slack. People have been attacking you and if you don't address it, it leaves a gap in trying to get a better read on you and they can't get answers from your slot. I know it is hard but I am sure you can address Joey's actions and give thoughts on it, and state if you would do that or if you wouldn't, and why you think it was scummy or not scummy etc. It would help to get a better grasp of your alignment.

Also did you reply to JTB yet?

 

[T-block]

To be honest, no I have not read up the case on Joey. I know what my playerslot is and it is not reasonable for me to try to defend why he did what he did. I have no clue why Joey did what he did, I can only speculate which is what I have done.

I feel Raziek is town from his early posts. He showed genuine confusion and aggravation at not knowing why LAK was posting the way they were. He wasn't willing to ignore something that was bothering him. Instead he tried to ask questions and even made sure to watch the anime to get the flavor.

I don't feel his posts are empty fluff or useless questions. He's doing the research to get better reads on people. I'll try to pull up specific lines later. I only had a few minutes to post before heading out.

Well then... please do read the case, and let me know if you see the inconsistency in his play that we were on him for.

You kinda just provided a lot of null tells on Raziek... how is genuine confusion and aggravation a town tell? How is watching the anime a town tell? o.o

Specific posts would be nice, yeah.

 

[Boatchouli]

Also, Boat, are you still standing by your Miller claim? I obviously noted that from post 1, but I don't know if you are still claiming it. Also, you mentioned "Daddy". Is the word "Daddy" used in your pm? Not Father or some other word referring to the parental unit?

Of course I'm standing by my miller claim. I am a miller.
Does that affect your read on us? It shouldn't. It should only affect the night actions. Daddy is just something I remember my character saying in an episode. Don't think too hard about.

Now if everyone wants to go ahead and vote T-block before I make this case on him, go do it now because he's about to go up in flames. Seriously if you wanted to buddy him this game, just forget it because he's not gonna look even a little town after this case. Save yourselves the trouble, guys.

 

[T-block]

Just come out with it, Boat.

I am leaving for San Fran tomorrow morning, and not returning until Monday. I will be packing tonight. Just FYI.

 

[Boatchouli]

No problem, it's a good post because you're taking what I'm saying into consideration. I like seeing your thinking process.

Here's mine after my recent reread:

Raziek - I really like your play this game. Even before I replaced it, I felt you were town from your questions that you stated. I know some people treated you as role fishing from LAK's posting style, but I could tell you were sincerely confused by what they were doing. Would you consider holding my hand this game?

T-block and WashedLaundry I both consider town. I think they've been really good on asking questions and pushing issues.

Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) - I do find it interesting that there has been no counterclaim on the Nia character, but as KvD proved, sometimes someone can make a fake claim and not be cc.

Lovably Adorable Kanine (RR/Ranmaru) - A little too much general fluffiness in your posts, but your character claim and last post made me feel you're town.

Soupamario - Actually is playing the most sane I've ever seen out of him.

Glyph - I don't like your inactivity and you repeating that you'll get to the game later. It's way scummy. I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt for now because of the breadcrumb, but don't depend on it to take you to end game. Start giving input, replace, or die.

Zen - Willing to give him some leeway because of his V/LA. I do want to see more input from you too.

asianaussie - Lack of input and activity has AA on my scum list.

Gova - I also want to see more from Gova.

X1-12 - I'd like more activity from you. So far you're null to me.

JTB -

VOTE JTB

This is so bad. I'm going to remove anything related to meta and/or AtE.


Outside of that, I have two MAJOR issues with your post. Why the hell would you reveal that about Glyph? What protown implications would that have? All it does is out it to the world and, even if that is how you feel, it's much better to say you think he's scummy and play that card when the time comes and it's relevant.

The other is the line with Zen saying he is a "strong town player," and that you "want to be on the same side this game." Why would his strength as a player be something you would feel the need to mention? It looks like you're trying to get on his good side before he even posts. I get the same feel from your opening lines about Raziek and it's grimy as hell. The excuse that "it's more fun when [Zen is] on the ball," is not going to cut it.

THINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!

You better hope to God that TBlock flips scum.

 

[Boatchouli]

Washed Laundry, I liked you better before you decided to copy Ryker's play style. I have no problem with the text of your last post, but your gif and meme are both obnoxious. You want to express a distaste of my opinion? Fine, whatever.

Adding repetitive pics and a dismissive gif are supposed to do what? Make me mad? Because it's not funny. It's mean, bullying behavior and it's a trend that makes playing mafia unfun on SWF any more.

Please tell me in painful detail why you felt it necessary to include those. Because honestly, actions like that make me want to become a lurker since it makes me feel like every little thing I say is stupid and wrong. You don't like my play? Fine. You going to treat me like trash? Forget that.

I can post only every 48 hours the words "Prod dodge" and players like you would just ignore me because "it's bad to hunt inactives". Why do you feel a need to harrass active players and turn a blind eye to quiet ones? They're the ones who squeak by as scum and drag town down as town players.

 

[Boatchouli]

Just come out with it, Boat.

I am leaving for San Fran tomorrow morning, and not returning until Monday. I will be packing tonight. Just FYI.

Getting on it now. Keep your panties on, scum.

 

[T-block]

My panties are good and tight

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

lots of stuff is happening at the moment and i can't post right now but i will get around to it sometime tomorrow, definitely well before deadline

so yeah, semi-V/LA

I expect alot from you hunny.

 

[X1-12]

FoS: X1 Explain yourself plz hunny.

You attacked him for what looked like a ******* reason and I pointed this out. If you don't fully explain why you don't like something how am I meant to know exactly what about the post you dislike?

 

[Raziek]

I'll answer this question towards the end of the Day, if that's all right.

This never did really get answered. There's some flip-flopping later that comes up on this point.

What's your plan, Boat? Joey lynch seems unlikely because people insist on dismissing his scumminess as just bad play.

Flip-flops here, asking Boat to lead doesn't sit well with me at all. If T-Block actually believes Joey is scum, there's no reason to change targets just because it "seems unlikely". This feels a hell of a lot like scum trying to back off.

I never did truly drop the Joey issue, and he is probably still my preferred lynch for the day. Notice that I questioned Raziek quite a bit about his stance on Joey, and also explicitly asked the inactives what their stance on Joey was.

*Looks at above paragraph.*



T-Block harassed me specifically for waiting for inactives to get involved in the game, but uses his questioning them as a means of defending himself? All you did was ask for generic stances from them. Anyone could have done that.

@Soup: That whole paragraph was about Joey, so yeah, that's what I said.

Let's do this then.

unvote
vote: Tandora

I just remembered he replaced out. The replacement is null to me (did he give a reason?), and I'm still okay with the lynch because we're lynching him for being scummy, not for being inactive. Plus, I don't want to deal with a replacement (sorry Tandora ;_

This makes me want to vomit, but this has already been addressed by multiple people.

Yes, I did several times. I'd bring up quotes if SWF weren't being so slow. If you're having trouble finding them let me know. Here's 311 though:

Joey is scum for being inconsistent in his behaviour towards Boat, which suggests scum motivation for his attack, and for his subsequent defense, which exposes more inconsistencies and towards the end resorts to misrepresenting the case against him in an attempt to undermine the attacker.

This is a really weak case. I really can't see how this is anything but trying to push a mis-lynch.

Let's take a look at Raziek...

Justifying his lack of action:

• 193 - says he wants to do more, but is waiting on an explanation from Boat; using the inactivity of others as justification for not scumhunting?
• 235 - defends that, saying he doesn't feel it necessary to be involved with every interaction; however, this post reads as bad play rather than scummy play to me
• 340 - says he is comfortable with where most players sit now; says he is not going to push without hearing from inactives; again hiding behind the inactivity of other players?

There is very little that is pro-active and a lot that is reactive in Raziek's play. This is not the townRaziek I saw in SMRPG, although I don't think I want to give too much weight to meta in Raziek's case. For now, I'll just note that this is potentially scummy behaviour.

And now a case on me out of nowhere? It is NOT necessary to be involved in every action. That leads to a lot of TvT scenarios, and it's plenty possible to view the interactions between others as a means of obtaining reads without explicitly getting involved in everything.

He added that just to pad his "case". Everything in the quote above is all things EVERY other player in the game is guilty of, but only I mentioned specifically in my posts. This is not a case.

Defense of Joey:

• 193 - says he wants to do more, but is waiting on an explanation from Boat; I had already posted my case on Joey, and Joey had even already responded, yet he does not weigh in here
• 226 - says that Joey did not follow him; no stance offered
• 235 - claims he has already weighed in on Joey, although this is the first time we are seeing a stance from him, and it comes only after I explicitly ask for it; says Joey is leaning town here - only reason offered is that there is nothing suggesting he is scummy
• 272 - dismisses the case against him as being based mostly on meta - misrepresentation of the attack, as case on him is not based on meta at all; says it doesn't feel malicious
• 282 - acknowledges that the defense was poor, but still says he does not see malicious intent behind his posting
• 338 - again, the exchange makes him feel Joey is town; says he is getting town vibes from it; also says Joey never pushed Boat because he thought he was scummy, when he clearly did
• 347 - town vibes; seems to focus on defending the reasoning behind Joey's push on Boat, even though the case on Joey is for inconsistencies in that push, not the push itself
• 350 - Town lean as a gut read

In the beginning, Raziek defends Joey while never actually saying that he thinks he is town. Instead, he points out little inaccuracies with the smaller accusations against Joey (note that following was never a main point against Joey) and tries to pass that off as a weigh-in on Joey (235). He then insists on a town read based on gut reads telling him what he feels Joey is, and basically dismisses the logic behind it in favour of calling it bad play, based on that gut read.

Interestingly, I think this section holds no matter what Joey flips. scumJoey would mean he could be defending his partner; townJoey would mean he could be aiming for town cred on the flip. I defended townRR as scum in exactly the same way for town cred in SMRPG. To be clear, my issue with his defense of Joey is not that I think Joey is scum - it's that his case only a feel/gut read, and he is dismissing all logic brought up against Joey.

I don't even know what to say about this one. T-Block is attempting to draw false connections here, as he was the one who specifically attempted to imply that Joey was "feeding" off me. I still see little convincing evidence to say that Joey's playerslot is scum.

Really not liking T-Block right now. His play is completely inconsistent with other games I've seen him in, he's reaching a hell of a lot, and he is my top scum pick.

Also worth noting, T-Block has repeatedly questioned LAK about his positing restriction, despite already getting an answer that it won't be disclosed. LAK is currently null in my eyes, but if T-Block flipped scum, I would seriously consider LAK scum. Dependent on claims and such, but I don't like T-Block's extensive focus on this.

Also, regarding Tandora's request to hold my hand:

Not at this time. Last person who asked me to hold my hand was scum. There will be no verbal confirmation of "hand-holding".

So yeah,

unvote, Vote: T-Block

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

@X1: It was not a ****ty reason baby. Point out the ****ty reason then. I think you were defending him for the wrong reason. That was why I didn't like it.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

@Raziek: Hunny, what was your read on Tblock before?

 

[Raziek]

T-Block has been null-scum for a while, let me pull up the exact post.

 

[Raziek]

This is where I first became uncomfortable with T-Block.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

What else do you EXPECT me to do, T-Block? Aside from beating the Joey horse to death I don't really have many questions, since I'm fairly comfortable with where most players sit right now. Not ready to push a lynch without hearing from inactives though.

I'm starting to get bothered by you constantly trying to make it sound like I'm doing nothing, when I'm not.

Well then it seems your 'stance' on Tblock seems a bit... OMGUS. Don't you think Darling? How exactly do you feel Tblock is reaching here? Why do you think he is doing that?

What did you think of Tandora's entry post and reads? ; )

 

[T-block]

I missed the part where he explicitly said it would not be disclosed. Last I heard, he had asked and not received an answer. My bad - mind showing me the post where you said that?

You guys picked the worst time to do this -_- I'll get to the rest later.

 

[Raziek]

Joey hasn't told me specifically why he had to replace out, but I would guess it's because of band camp.

I've been skimming the game, so I'm generally aware of what is going on. I do need a full reread which I will attempt to start tonight.

For those who feel Joey is scummy, please give reasons why. I am aware he's been very AtE and emotional in general this game. However, I do ask that you look at the player and his preferred playstyle and not a "correct" way of playing. Those of you who have played with Joey before know he tends to get upset when he's town because he is emotionally invested.

During my casual read, I had pegged him as town based on this personal preference of play.

The person I want to look at most during my reread will be Zen. He's been generally quiet from what I've noted and a quiet Zen is usually scum Zen.

Also, Boat, are you still standing by your Miller claim? I obviously noted that from post 1, but I don't know if you are still claiming it. Also, you mentioned "Daddy". Is the word "Daddy" used in your pm? Not Father or some other word referring to the parental unit?

@LAK: This post sits mostly alright with me, because it lines up with my opinion on the playerslot. I don't think there is much actual scum-quality to Joey's play.

"Quiet Zen" comment is odd, but this is corrected upon notification that he's V/LA.

Last section is a little weird. Why is that being inquired about now? It seemed pretty clear that was sillyness early on, and I see no reason to bring it up now. This feels like legitimate fishing.

No problem, it's a good post because you're taking what I'm saying into consideration. I like seeing your thinking process.

Here's mine after my recent reread:

Raziek - I really like your play this game. Even before I replaced it, I felt you were town from your questions that you stated. I know some people treated you as role fishing from LAK's posting style, but I could tell you were sincerely confused by what they were doing. Would you consider holding my hand this game?

T-block and WashedLaundry I both consider town. I think they've been really good on asking questions and pushing issues.

Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) - I am leaning town based on playstyle more than claim. I do find it interesting that there has been no counterclaim on the Nia character, but as KvD proved, sometimes someone can make a fake claim and not be cc. Regardless, I do get the usual Ryker superiority attitude, but Moth's general towniness is there too.

Lovably Adorable Kanine (RR/Ranmaru) - A little too much general fluffiness in your posts, but your character claim and last post made me feel you're town.

Soupamario - Actually is playing the most sane I've ever seen out of him. Not sure if scum or he's learned a better town style. =3

Glyph - I don't like your inactivity and you repeating that you'll get to the game later. It's way scummy. I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt for now because of the breadcrumb, but don't depend on it to take you to end game. Start giving input, replace, or die.

Zen - Willing to give him some leeway because of his V/LA. I do want to see more input from you too. You're a strong town player and I want you to be on our side this game. Makes it a lot more fun when you're on the ball.

asianaussie - Lack of input and activity has AA on my scum list.

Gova - I also want to see more from Gova.

X1-12 - I'd like more activity from you. So far you're null to me. I can see where you could be making legit cases, but you can fake town as scum better than most. IGMYEOU

JTB - I agree his style is off. Inactive, fluffy posts. Doesn't fit.

VOTE JTB

This post has a few things that don't sit well with me.

Tan's immediate wanting to hold my hand just because I seemed genuine is odd. I can understand it, but I wouldn't offer my hand on a gut read.

I agree WL seems Town, but T-Block I don't see. He's asking questions, but they're not exactly provocative questions. They're the wrong questions, IMO. Disagree with Town T-Block.

I agree on LAK, and you asking me to re-read Tandora actually makes me feel better about you.

Addressing the inactives as purely scummy doesn't sit that well with me, but by process of elimination, I can see where that opinion comes from.

--------------------------------------

Re-reading this a bit has changed my opinion on Tandora. I'm more willing to believe possible scum, but I stress that it is her actions, not Joey's, that lead me to this. Her reads are inconsistent with what I expected at this point.

Top 3 Scumpicks:

1. T-Block
2. JTB (Still hasn't given any content worth a damn, and initial play stank)
3. Tandora

 

[Raziek]

Well then it seems your 'stance' on Tblock seems a bit... OMGUS. Don't you think Darling? How exactly do you feel Tblock is reaching here? Why do you think he is doing that?

Forgot to address this part of the post.

My stance on T-Block isn't OMGUS, I've been quite uncomfortable with him for a good long time. His play doesn't make me comfortable in the slightest, and is quite unlike his usual play.

I feel like T-Block is reaching to draw connections between Tandora's slot and my own, in order to push one of us as today's lynch. He's been on either myself or Joey since the start of the Day, gave Tandora NO slack on the replacement in, and I feel like he's trying to draw things to a "her or me" scenario.

Oh, and worth adding: ScumBlock would mean TownTan for me. There's no reason scumBlock would attack that slot so relentlessly if they were scum-mates.

 

[Xivii]

Cool I'm still in this game n.n

 

[Boatchouli]

You've played a few games with me already, Soup... you can't make that call yet?

There's a reason why I'm being such an *** about this. It'll all be revealed eventually I'm sure, so don't worry.

This isn't a huge thing but you never actually come back to this.

It's all good, Raziek. We can believe his claim.

This has no relation to the rest of our case but our claim is a null tell.

Haven't re-read past 150 yet, but I haven't noticed it that much. I've noted that Joey defends Raziek in a way that makes me think scumJoey implies townRaziek.

The rest of your post says nothing about this connection. Can you explain it more?

Nah I'm not mad.

Probs gonna drop this case for a bit and look at others.

Dropping your strongest scumread for others? I wonder what could possibly be so important.

X1 and JTB, can you please catch up and respond to Raziek? You are allowing him to not contribute by saying he is waiting on your answers, and I am getting suspicious of him.

Why would this make you suspicious of him? He's playing the game. You're reaching.

I'll answer this question towards the end of the Day, if that's all right.

This is in reference to being asked his "true" stance on Joey. Why would he be hesitant about stating his stance on his "strongest scum read"?

So WL, what is your stance on Raziek at the moment?

Why are you fishing for stances on Raziek? You must think he's scum. You shouldn't have to worry about WL's read on him so much unless you think WL is scum too.

If I could vote all the inactives, I would.

JTB isn't just inactive though... when he does post, he just blends like mad.

He also seems to be the one most of us can agree on. We're running out of time, and I'd like to see a claim by Wednesday at the latest - earlier if possible since I'll be V/LA after Wednesday.

I've addressed this already but I feel I need to bring it up again. And Gova blends just as bad if not worse than JTB. Besides, AA is a better inactive lynch anyway.

At the pace this game is going, I would say 3.5 days is running out of time.

Guess you missed my 111 in your re-read:



Agreed on X1-12 being as scummy as JTB, but pushing X1-12 doesn't make this game move like pushing JTB does. Plus, X1 just got back from V/LA, so I'll be expecting a post from him soon, whereas JTB, as far as I know, has no such excuse. And look, I got a response from him ^ =o

What's your plan, Boat? Joey lynch seems unlikely because people insist on dismissing his scumminess as just bad play.

That's all the more reason to push a Joey lynch. If you think he's scum than you should be pushing his lynch. There's not excuse for dropping his case.
As I illustrated in my next post there were plenty of people willing to vote Joey. You can stick wings on it but that **** won't fly.

1.First of all, I voted JTB to get the game moving, but not necessarily to a JTB lynch or claim. As you said, we do still have time - I said we were running out because we were moving at a very slow pace (I did fail to take into account that we were coming off a weekend, plus I was bored at work). I NEVER said he was the "obvious choice".

2.I also never said JTB lynch would give more information than an X1 lynch.

3.When I voted JTB, you were the only one who seemed to follow me on the case. Soup had him as null-leaning town. AA had said he didn't see anything scummy and hadn't re-read yet. LAK said he didn't agree with the case. Gova said the case had legit points, but that it might just be Joey being sporadic. WL was sorta there, but hadn't said anything more than he wasn't liking Joey's responses. Raziek had him as town on a gut read (more on that later -_-). X1 hadn't weighed in on Joey yet. Anyone else wasn't around. The support I saw was only from you, Boat, and WL, and there was no shortage of people defending Joey either.

4.I never did truly drop the Joey issue, and he is probably still my preferred lynch for the day. Notice that I questioned Raziek quite a bit about his stance on Joey, and also explicitly asked the inactives what their stance on Joey was.

1. You never said that he was the obvious choice but you heavily implied it.

2. You said it was more profitable so how would it be more profitable if it doesn't give us as much information.

3. See our previous response. You should have followed through if you thought Joey was scum.

4. You DID drop the Joey case. You explicitly said that you were going to drop it for now. You stopped all pressure on Joey and I have seen no intent to go back to his case. Your post implied that you found Joey's defense acceptable. If he's truly your preferred lynch then why was your vote on JTB?

@Soup: That whole paragraph was about Joey, so yeah, that's what I said.

Let's do this then.

unvote
vote: Tandora

I just remembered he replaced out. The replacement is null to me (did he give a reason?), and I'm still okay with the lynch because we're lynching him for being scummy, not for being inactive. Plus, I don't want to deal with a replacement (sorry Tandora ;_

After we pressured you on the JTB vote you immediately switch back to Joey's slot. I don't find your switch genuine. I think you're scum flipping votes to avoid pressure for your weak justification on joining JTB's wagon.

Also the "I don't want to deal with a replacement" line is grimey by itself.

Let's take a look at Raziek...

Justifying his lack of action:

• 193 - says he wants to do more, but is waiting on an explanation from Boat; using the inactivity of others as justification for not scumhunting?
• 235 - defends that, saying he doesn't feel it necessary to be involved with every interaction; however, this post reads as bad play rather than scummy play to me
• 340 - says he is comfortable with where most players sit now; says he is not going to push without hearing from inactives; again hiding behind the inactivity of other players?

There is very little that is pro-active and a lot that is reactive in Raziek's play. This is not the townRaziek I saw in SMRPG, although I don't think I want to give too much weight to meta in Raziek's case. For now, I'll just note that this is potentially scummy behaviour.

Defense of Joey:

• 193 - says he wants to do more, but is waiting on an explanatio
  n from Boat; I had already posted my case on Joey, and Joey had even already responded, yet he does not weigh in here
• 226 - says that Joey did not follow him; no stance offered
• 235 - claims he has already weighed in on Joey, although this is the first time we are seeing a stance from him, and it comes only after I explicitly ask for it; says Joey is leaning town here - only reason offered is that there is nothing suggesting he is scummy
• 272 - dismisses the case against him as being based mostly on meta - misrepresentation of the attack, as case on him is not based on meta at all; says it doesn't feel malicious
• 282 - acknowledges that the defense was poor, but still says he does not see malicious intent behind his posting
• 338 - again, the exchange makes him feel Joey is town; says he is getting town vibes from it; also says Joey never pushed Boat because he thought he was scummy, when he clearly did
• 347 - town vibes; seems to focus on defending the reasoning behind Joey's push on Boat, even though the case on Joey is for inconsistencies in that push, not the push itself
• 350 - Town lean as a gut read

In the beginning, Raziek defends Joey while never actually saying that he thinks he is town. Instead, he points out little inaccuracies with the smaller accusations against Joey (note that following was never a main point against Joey) and tries to pass that off as a weigh-in on Joey (235). He then insists on a town read based on gut reads telling him what he feels Joey is, and basically dismisses the logic behind it in favour of calling it bad play, based on that gut read.

Interestingly, I think this section holds no matter what Joey flips. scumJoey would mean he could be defending his partner; townJoey would mean he could be aiming for town cred on the flip. I defended townRR as scum in exactly the same way for town cred in SMRPG. To be clear, my issue with his defense of Joey is not that I think Joey is scum - it's that his case only a feel/gut read, and he is dismissing all logic brought up against Joey.

We think Raziek is town right now. We hold in our hand the ability to blow this case to shreds. But rather than thrusting our drill towards the heavens we'd like to give Raziek time to respond to it by himself.

For now I'll say this: Look at post #202. He says straight up that Joey scum implies Raziek town. Yet here he is making this case that says Raziek is scum WITH Joey.

This post is an interesting flip from his #202. I do not like the last paragraph of this post at all because it's trying to set up a Raziek lynch regardless of Joey's flip.

You ask for more pressure on Joey and then vote the guy that does it? I mean, the connection's not 100% there (TBro's flip onto him was grimy so it's warranted) but I'm still curious about your flip onto T-Block.

Right now his pressure is not Joey. His vote is on Joey but his pressure is on Raziek. As we said before his flip onto Joey/Tandora isn't town motivated. We think he's scum trying to look good rather than standing up for his extremely shoddy case on JTB.




So T-bro.... You gonna claim now, or are you gonna wait for the votes to pile up? It's your decision but you'll be saving us all a lot of time if you just go ahead and claim now.

 

[Boatchouli]

On an unrelated note:

X1! STOP REACHING!!!

 

[Boatchouli]

Someone send a memo to EE.

THIS is how you make a case.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Boat hunny bunny, votes come first, then claim.

 

[Raziek]

What? T-Block is going to Genesis and it's already pretty clear we're not happy with him.

Why would we waste precious time?? T-Block is gonna have to leave before the deadline.

 

[Boatchouli]

Boat hunny bunny, votes come first, then claim.

He isn't going to be here, do you suggest we wait until he gets to L-2 at some point tomorrow and then he leaves for V/LA and we don't get a claim out of him until the day that deadline is supposed to hit?

 

[T-block]

Let me tell you guys something about how I play D1. I aim to be all over the place and generate content, because I think D1 can be very revealing when scum don't know who to be cautious of, etc. I aim to find connections that we can use later. Joey was and is my top scumpick. That never changed. I moved my vote to JTB to get the game moving. I never "heavily implied" that JTB was the obvious choice. I was on Joey, and the game was stagnating. As I said, only Boat was really with me on the Joey wagon at the time - WL was half on-board, so we'll count him too. I had three or four people telling me they had town reads on Joey, and nothing solid behind that to argue. How am I supposed to argue against "his scumminess is just Joey playing poorly"? So I moved my vote - I tried to make use of the day, instead of pushing a case that was just being brushed off by a significant fraction of the active players.

This never did really get answered. There's some flip-flopping later that comes up on this point.


Flip-flops here, asking Boat to lead doesn't sit well with me at all. If T-Block actually believes Joey is scum, there's no reason to change targets just because it "seems unlikely". This feels a hell of a lot like scum trying to back off.

See above.

T-Block harassed me specifically for waiting for inactives to get involved in the game, but uses his questioning them as a means of defending himself? All you did was ask for generic stances from them. Anyone could have done that.

I am not defending myself with my questioning of inactives. I'm using the questions I asked to show that Joey was still in my attention - I stopped pressuring Joey himself, but I'm still looking for connections to him - who defends him, who agrees against him, etc.

This is a really weak case. I really can't see how this is anything but trying to push a mis-lynch.

It's D1, and I think it's not bad for a case built only on D1. The inconsistency is definitely there, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Doesn't the fact that you call it bad play mean you see it too? Or is it just a weak case BECAUSE you are using meta to cover up the scumminess? Either way, that's a pretty silly defense imo.

I could be like you and whine about how there's nothing to work with instead, if you want, Raziek.

And now a case on me out of nowhere? It is NOT necessary to be involved in every action. That leads to a lot of TvT scenarios, and it's plenty possible to view the interactions between others as a means of obtaining reads without explicitly getting involved in everything.

He added that just to pad his "case". Everything in the quote above is all things EVERY other player in the game is guilty of, but only I mentioned specifically in my posts. This is not a case.

The case isn't out of nowhere... I already said I was suspicious of you. D1 play and all that - I wanted to pressure you a bit, and I wish I could have seen your reaction without being able to hide behind an attack on me. But that's fine.

Raziek, nobody in this game has been hiding behind inactives as much as you have. It was definitely enough for me to take note of it several times. Nobody said "i WOULD to do other things, but this person isn't here and i asked him a question". It's not definitely scummy behaviour, but potentially scummy, which I said in that post.

I don't even know what to say about this one. T-Block is attempting to draw false connections here, as he was the one who specifically attempted to imply that Joey was "feeding" off me. I still see little convincing evidence to say that Joey's playerslot is scum.

There is a definite connection here. You continuously dismiss the case and your only defense is that "it's just Joey". To be honest, I would expect you to be one of the first ones to see it, so that's why this defense seems so off. You label Joey as town, but you can't provide any reasoning for it. You didn't say "not scum", as in the stuff against him wasn't scummy. You said "town".

Really not liking T-Block right now. His play is completely inconsistent with other games I've seen him in, he's reaching a hell of a lot, and he is my top scum pick.

What other games are you talking about? Can you be more specific?

Also worth noting, T-Block has repeatedly questioned LAK about his positing restriction, despite already getting an answer that it won't be disclosed. LAK is currently null in my eyes, but if T-Block flipped scum, I would seriously consider LAK scum. Dependent on claims and such, but I don't like T-Block's extensive focus on this.

As I said, I missed where he explicitly stated that it would not be disclosed. I really want to clear this slot because I can't read them worth **** (town read is based completely on the flavour).

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Raz pumpkin, so that we have a wagon to look at afterwards. I didn't know he was going to Genesis though.

No I don't want to wait for deadline. He can claim.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

I remember Tblock asking about that. I waited for Razy to get in to address that but he didn't. I only JUST stated the answer on this page, Tblock was right that before I told him I was waiting on the mod.

Now Tblock, what do you think of Razy attacking you for asking me again and again even though I didn't give the 'disclosed' answer before this page pumpkin?

 

[T-block]

This isn't a huge thing but you never actually come back to this.

It's revealed if I have to claim

The rest of your post says nothing about this connection. Can you explain it more?

I think it was because I saw subtle buddying attempts. Can't completely remember tbh.

Dropping your strongest scumread for others? I wonder what could possibly be so important.

Not dropping it, as I said.

Why would this make you suspicious of him? He's playing the game. You're reaching.

The word is "and", not "so". I was becoming suspicious because of his dubious defense of Joey. I wanted to see him do stuff, but he was hiding behind the fact that X1 and JTB hadn't answered his questions yet. You're implying causation where there is none.

This is in reference to being asked his "true" stance on Joey. Why would he be hesitant about stating his stance on his "strongest scum read"?

My stance on Joey was already obvious. I said that because I wanted to focus on Raziek's reasoning behind the Joey defense. In hindsight, I probably should have just said "my stance is obvious - no need to ask this question", because that more accurately describes what I was thinking at the time.

Why are you fishing for stances on Raziek? You must think he's scum. You shouldn't have to worry about WL's read on him so much unless you think WL is scum too.

Why wouldn't I? Yeah, I had Raziek leaning scum at that point. I did have WL as town, but I'm not confident in that. Why wouldn't I get a stance now, in case we see a Raziek flip? What's wrong with that additional information?

Is looking for stances on Raziek scummy? Explain, because this looks like reaching.

I've addressed this already but I feel I need to bring it up again. And Gova blends just as bad if not worse than JTB. Besides, AA is a better inactive lynch anyway.

Already addressed.

That's all the more reason to push a Joey lynch. If you think he's scum than you should be pushing his lynch. There's not excuse for dropping his case.
As I illustrated in my next post there were plenty of people willing to vote Joey. You can stick wings on it but that **** won't fly.

I didn't drop on Joey etc.etc.

1. You never said that he was the obvious choice but you heavily implied it.

2. You said it was more profitable so how would it be more profitable if it doesn't give us as much information.

3. See our previous response. You should have followed through if you thought Joey was scum.

4. You DID drop the Joey case. You explicitly said that you were going to drop it for now. You stopped all pressure on Joey and I have seen no intent to go back to his case. Your post implied that you found Joey's defense acceptable. If he's truly your preferred lynch then why was your vote on JTB?

1. Find me where I heavily implied it.

2. Implying again that I wanted JTB lynched. A vote on JTB was more likely to produce a reaction than a vote on X12.

3. Your previous response said to look at this response. There were 1.5 other people who showed any interest in the Joey case.

4. I meant I would drop the pressure, not the case. If I found his defense acceptable, I would have said so. I also wouldn't have continued to ask Raziek if he saw the points behind the case -_- I stopped pressuring because it wasn't going anywhere.

After we pressured you on the JTB vote you immediately switch back to Joey's slot. I don't find your switch genuine. I think you're scum flipping votes to avoid pressure for your weak justification on joining JTB's wagon.

Also the "I don't want to deal with a replacement" line is grimey by itself.

I fully admit this post was bad, and I apologize for it.

We think Raziek is town right now. We hold in our hand the ability to blow this case to shreds. But rather than thrusting our drill towards the heavens we'd like to give Raziek time to respond to it by himself.

For now I'll say this: Look at post #202. He says straight up that Joey scum implies Raziek town. Yet here he is making this case that says Raziek is scum WITH Joey.

This post is an interesting flip from his #202. I do not like the last paragraph of this post at all because it's trying to set up a Raziek lynch regardless of Joey's flip.

Things change. Raziek hadn't been defending Joey in that way when I made 202. Shouldn't that be obvious?

So T-bro.... You gonna claim now, or are you gonna wait for the votes to pile up? It's your decision but you'll be saving us all a lot of time if you just go ahead and claim now.

I'll claim tomorrow morning if you're all set on lynching me.

 

[T-block]

I remember Tblock asking about that. I waited for Razy to get in to address that but he didn't. I only JUST stated the answer on this page, Tblock was right that before I told him I was waiting on the mod.

Now Tblock, what do you think of Razy attacking you for asking me again and again even though I didn't give the 'disclosed' answer before this page pumpkin?

Doesn't make me think any worse of him, tbh, but I don't think well of him in the first place.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Boat: Hunny I agree with your points. For example, the point where Tblok stated ScumJoey flip = Town Raz but then states they are scum together. I also didn't like that he asked to 'answer that later' and never did, and Raz has addressed that.

Also notice how Tblock totally ignored Raz's point about the 'I'm not going to deal with the replacement' post. Also the dropping of Joey's case would seem like a gap in his fake concern of finding scum. me no likey.

I also don't like that he uses the excuse "I was trying to get the ball rolling" to excuse his actions that are scummy, such as the Soup policy lynch proposal.

Unvote Vote: T-block

 

[T-block]

Except the Soup push definitely was. I breadcrumbed FALSE in post 41. I'm not the type who would go for a policy lynch like that -_-

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

Tblock, what are your thoughts on the inactives darling?

How are each of your reads progressing? (I'm interested in your X1 read and Boat read)

 

[T-block]

**** it, I don't care about this game anymore. GENESIS 2 BABY (sorry kuz)

Old Coco, Town One-way Mason. I have mod-confirmed information about the setup.

Boatchouli is Nia and is confirmed town. Says nothing about miller.

Breadcrumbed name here:

Co-confirmed and ready for action!

I'm in the middle of watching this anime now. I'll hopefully finish it by tonight =)

I was hella mad when Boat made the first post claiming Nia before I could crumb it. Breadcrumbed information here:

Boatchouli is miller, huh? Is Nia someone who would be miller based on flavour? 100% of my time after work is going into finishing this anime >_>; Town needs to get this game going in the meantime.

vote: Soupamario

@Everyone: I am honestly fine with sticking with a Soup lynch today. What do you think of that?

Then I realized that doesn't show I'm not scum at all, so I looked for another one.

Gord beat me to the punch.

Vote Marshy

He heard me talking about it on Skype (Kuz was there, so haters can hate all they want). None of what I said isn't going to be in this post.

So anyway, reasons for why we're lynching an irrelavant fossil.

I received a riddle with my role PM. It was a story from "Daddy" that I never forgot. I can't say it in thread, but I can paraphrase.

It states that there is something out there watching us to make sure we follow the norm that it wants. It's old as time. If we ever reach too far, then it'll come in to rectify the situation. It's a battle with something outside of our world.

After it, I was given a sentence Kuz said I can quote:

"Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible."

So I'm lynching Marshy. Worst case scenario, we get it done quick, nothing happens, and we move on with our lives and I find another application for what it could mean.

Wagon go go go!

Fair enough. Thanks for taking spoilers into account.

I'll weigh in after a votecount is shown. Though I'm almost positive that a majority on marshy is not going to do anything. Seems silly to waste time on this.

Maybe you can clarify this though: does the "we" refer to your hydra, or to town in general?

Eh...

In response to Boat's story about something old watching them, I breadcrumbed ITS ME. If the PM information was true, then Boat basically has mod-confirmed information of my existance.

 

[Lovably Adorable Kanine]

One way Mason? My lovelies, does the flavour add up with his claim?

I mean is it possible scum could fake claim that?

Hmmm, T-Block, why do you think Boat was trying to lynch Marshy then?

Also can you please answer my previous post?

Also what did you think of the riddle?

It states that there is something out there watching us to make sure we follow the norm that it wants. It's old as time. If we ever reach too far, then it'll come in to rectify the situation. It's a battle with something outside of our world.

After it, I was given a sentence Kuz said I can quote:

"Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible."