Guide to DESYNCHING -- I really need to massively revise this

EverAlert

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#1
Guide to DESYNCHING


Desynching. Along with chaingrabbing, which in itself is a subset of desynching, it is an Ice Climbers staple, a unique property only they have. While chaingrabbing is more important due to its role in killing, desynching is nonetheless the centrepiece of competitive Ice Climbers play, being used as an all-purpose technique to pressure, combo, rack damage, space, play defensively, play offensively, and so on. It is necessary skill and knowledge in high-end competition.

This is an advanced Ice Climbers guide. If you are just starting out with Ice Climbers, STOP READING NOW and work your way through Bunny's guide. A lot of this is information for information's sake, and will cause confusion if you're not already comfortable with using this character.

Note that when I say Popo, I am referring to the lead climber (the one you directly control); when I say Nana, I am referring to your assistant (the one that follows you around).

Defining Desynching
Desynching (short for De-Synchronising) is the art of playing Ice Climbers as two individual characters... at the same time! Put simply, it is when you make each climber do their own individual moves alternatively, e.g. Popo NSpecial, then Nana DSpecial, then Popo FTilt, then Nana DSmash, and so on. Normally Nana does the same move as Popo, only with a 5-frame delay. Desynching is when you break that synchronisation and cause such a large delay that Nana starts taking her own inputs rather than copying Popo's.

Sync Range
Nana will only react to controller input if she is within a certain range of Popo. To get a feel for this range, desync Ice Shot and on Popo's turn start holding shield until his shield breaks, then you can try moving around with Nana. While within this range, Nana will be pulled toward Popo like a magnet, making her jumps shorter and her falling, dashing and walking slower. Nana can't dash opposite to Popo's facing while in the bubble, and will repeatedly turn to face with Popo again when you make her walk back (she will pivot walk back rather than normal walk). If she is in the middle of a move and Popo turns around, her move will be reversed. The further Nana is away from Popo, the greater the strength is on her magnetism.

Notes On Notation
  • When giving instructions, referring to a desync's name followed by button inputs in parenthesis means I am saying to do a specific version of that desync.
  • I refer to specific button inputs not by their name ("A", "B" or "Z"), but by what they do ("Attack", "Special" and "Grab"). This is to avoid confusion between controller types and control setups.
  • When listing combos and sequences of moves, if a specific Climber most do each move in turn, their moves will be prefixed with the Climber's name.



1. Starting the Desync

1. Buffer Desync
With the exception of Squall Hammer (FSpecial) or Belay (USpecial), perform any move and while in the lag of that move buffer a dash in the opposite direction to your facing. When the lag ends, only Nana will dash, while Popo will simply turn around.

2. Blonde Roll
Press Shield and Back at the same time. Popo will roll back, while Nana will roll forward. Pressing Grab and CStick Forward also yields the same result.

3. Dashdance Desync
Simply dashdance (initial dash several times back and forth) and input any move at the end. Nana can't dashdance, and will slide around while Popo does, allowing Popo to perform a move during her slide lag.

4. Backdash Smash Desync
Dash back, and almost-immediately press A. Popo will FSmash, while Nana will Dash Attack. A can be held to charge the FSmash. If both climbers FSmash, you pressed A too early; if both climbers Dash Attack, you pressed A too late.

5. DTilt Desync
DTilt, hold diagonal back-down, and input a move during the end of the DTilt. Only Nana will perform the follow-up move. You do not have to hit with the move to desync with it, but you can only desync with a very small number of moves. Follow up with either Dash, Jab, DTilt, FTilt, FSmash or FSpecial.

6. Grab Desync
Grab someone. While grabbing, one climber is free while the other is holding the opponent, allowing an insane number of possibilities ranging from merely racking damage to outright killing.

7. A-Hit Desync
Hit the opponent with any synced A Button move. For aerials excepting BAir, fastfall and buffer a move during the landing lag. For BAir, hold an input at the end of the move itself. For grounded moves, buffer another move out of it.

8. Reverse Initial Dash Desync
Input a Reverse Initial Dash, release the stick, and input a move near the end of the dash. Follow-up moves include DSpecial, NSpecial, Grab and Shield+Move. For Specials, one climber will do nothing, while the other will do the move. For Grab, one climber will Grab while the other will Dashgrab. For Shield+Move, one climber will shield while the other does the move. Differing the timing slightly determines which climber does what action.

9. Ledge Desync
Tether with USpecial, and either tap forward or press A as he connects with the ledge (after Nana pulls him up but before her animation is over). Alternatively, grab the ledge normally and press Jump. Popo will get up, while Nana will stay on the ledge. Altering the timing for the second method slightly will cause Nana to get up instead of Popo.

10. Pivot Desync
Dash in any direction, quickly tap back and immediately release, then input a move. Popo will do the move, but Nana will dash back instead. If done with an Attack-button move (Jab, Tilts, Smashes), Nana will Dash Attack. When done really close toward a ledge, Nana will slide off and ledge grab (strict timing). Does not work with USmash, Belay (USpecial) or Squall Hammer (FSpecial).

11. Platform Fall Desync
As you are about to land on a platform, tap down and release immediately. Popo drops through, while Nana lands on the platform.

12. Run and Roll Desync
Dash, then almost-immediately press Shield. Popo will Roll, Nana will do nothing.

13. Short Hop Fastfall Desync
Short Hop, Fastfall, and input a move as you land. Only one Climber will do the move. It's strict, but you can choose which Climber does the move by altering the timing.

14. Pause Desync
Pause the game, hold Attack, unpause and release Attack immediately. Only Nana will Jab.

15. Starting Desync
Ice Climbers are desynched at the very beginning of every game. During the countdown, hold a move's input, and when the game starts ("GO!") Nana will do the move, while Popo will do nothing.

16. Squall Desync
Do a Squall Hammer (FSpecial), and input a move at the end of its animation. Only Nana will do that move. You can "pause" Squall just before the desynching period by spamming Ice Shot (NSpecial) or Taunts (Popo and Nana will keep doing the move in opposite directions). When you're ready to desync, perform another move.

17. Tilt Desync
Tilt the Control Stick diagonally and press Attack simultaneously. Popo and Nana will do different Tilts.

18. Tipper Desync
If only one Climber connects with a non-projectile attack, the hitlag suffered by only one Climber will allow them to desync.

19. Turnaround Desync
By tapping the Control Stick back and releasing almost-immediately, Popo will turn around while Nana will dash. Has the same properties as the Pivot Desync (1.10).

20. Trip Desync
When one Climber trips and the other doesn't, they become desynched.

21. Grab Roll Desync
Press Grab and tap the Control Stick back simultaneously. Popo rolls, while Nana pivot grabs.

22. Standing Nana Desync
While standing, smoothly move the Control Stick to halfway between center and the back rim (the rim behind you), then snap the Control Stick in a dashing motion to the forward rim (the side you were originally facing), and input any move during the second motion (typically holding Attack). The effect changes depending on what you input during the snap. Pressing Attack on the early side yields and FTilt from Nana, holding Attack on the late side causes her to charge an FSmash. There are many derivatives and applications (see: 2.9, "Standing Nana Derivatives").

23. Dash Delay Desync
Input a Dash, wait half a second, then press Attack.The result depends on the timing. Either Popo will Dash Attack and Nana will Jab, or Popo will Jab and Nana will do nothing.

24. Squall and Shield Desync
Input a Squall, and at the end input a Shield or Grab in combination with other inputs. The effect varies depending on the additional inputs. Follow-ups are typically combo-based.

25. Hyphen Smash Desync
Perform a Hyphen Smash (Running USmash), backdash after the lag and immediately Hyphen Smash again. Popo will do the Hyphen Smash again, while Nana will Dash Attack.

26. Dashbounce Desync
Dash (hold the dash), and as the dash is about to transition into a run, let go of the Control Stick and wavebounce either an Ice Shot (NSpecial) or Blizzard (DSpecial). Nana will bounce the move while Popo will dash back. Can be performed with other moves, but without the bounce.

27. Respawn Desync
As you respawn, just before the respawn cloud stops moving, input a move. Nana will break her synchronisation and fall from the cloud early to do the move. With later timing, Popo will fall and do the move with her, but still desynched (in these cases you can buffer a move out of the first and only Nana will do the second move).

28. Shield Desync
Use Squall Hammer or Belay out-of-Shield, both Climbers will do the move but they'll be desynched.



2. While Desynched...

1. Ice Block Lock
With desynched Ice Shot (NSpecial), you can lock opponents into their getup animation. It's slow damage, but it's possible to walk forward during the lock in order to keep the Ice Shot damage high. As for setting it up, it can be spiked into (Nana FAir), but that can be teched. Some moves hit low and cause tumble, such as FTilt, but again, the issue is the possibility of teching. The only tumble that cannot be teched is that of a Footstool, but hobbling causes Nana to leave your side long enough that she's not there to follow-up with her own Ice Shot when you start the lock. Due to issues with setting up and the existence of far superior damage rackers, this is considered mostly redundant.

2. Reverse Grab Smash
If you charge a smash with Nana while grabbing, then BThrow, Nana will turn around during her smash and hit the opposite way, useful for confusing your opponent's DI. For example, at the edge, grab the opponent while facing the middle of the stage, charge an FSmash, then BThrow. If they DI the FSmash "correctly" they will die (outward) lower than normal. Reversing Nana in this way is possible with other moves in other situations in accordance to Nana's mechanics (see: "Sync Range"). A similar effect can be attained by charging an FSmash and UThrowing, causing the opponent to hit the back end of the FSmash and be hit outward.

3. Comboing out of Desynchs
It is possible to set up comboes with desynchs. Pioneered with the Squall and Shield Desync (1.24), using desynchs to combo is a quick and effective way to rack up damage. Some comboes include ("Squall and Shield Desync" shortened to "SaSD" for convenience):

  1. SaSD (Roll) → Popo Grab → Nana Ice Shot (NSpecial) → Popo DThrow → Nana FAir (Spike)
  2. SaSD (Shield) → Popo Ice Shot (NSpecial) → Nana Tap-Squall (FSpecial) (Popo will Dash) → Repeat
  3. Short Hop Uair → Hit Desync (1.7) → Nana Double Jump FAir (Spike) → Popo Grab
  4. Short Hop BAir → Hit Desync (1.7) → Nana Blizzard (DSpecial)
  5. Short Hop BAir → Hit Desync (1.7) → Ice Block Chaser (2.7)
  6. FTilt → Hit Desync (1.7) → Popo Hyphen Smash → Nana FAir (Spike)
  7. FTilt → Hit Desync (1.7) → Nana Blizzard (DSpecial) → Popo Grab
  8. [Low %] UTilt → Hit Desync (1.7) → Popo FSmash → Nana FAir (Spike) → Popo Grab
  9. Retreating BAir → Hit Desync (1.7) → Popo Ice Shot (NSpecial) → Nana Grab
  10. Retreating BAir → Hit Desync (1.7) → Popo Ice Shot (NSpecial) → Nana Hyphen Smash

4. Nana Charge Deception
As a little bit of mental trickery, you can desync and have Nana scarge a smash, then walk forward with Popo pulling her behind you. Opponents will typically focus on the FSmash and attempt to outspace it or shield it, while forgetting about Popo being free. If they try to outspace the smash, Popo can hit them with his own, as he will be closer to them than Nana. If they try to shield, Popo can simply grab them. Note that this does not work on characters with projectiles, as they can simply counter this by throwing things at you. While less of an issue than projectiles, also be wary of characters with large disjoints, as they can still hit you at range. Strictly a situational mindgame technique, but an effective one.

5. Nana Braking
While desynched, if Nana is launched you can cancel her momentum and re-sync with her by using an aerial as she flies past you, essentially saving her. It is also possible to do this while synced on the ground; if only she is hit and launched, you can jump up after her before she goes too far and save her with an aerial. The effect is similar to that for cancelling someone's momentum with the wind on Mr. Game & Watch's UAir. It is also possible to save her while she's being launched by teleporting her with Belay (USpecial) and Squall Hammer (FSpecial). With the exception of Belay, which has a much larger teleportation range, cancelling her momentum with a move must be done while she is within her magnetism boundary (see: "Sync Range").

6. Chaingrabbing
The most famous and most important facet of Ice Climbers' game, and a form of desynching. While an in-depth how-to on chaingrabbing is far outside of the scope of this guide, the principle is simple: combine grabs, throws and optionally other moves to lock opponents into devastating and frequently lethal combos. In its most basic form, a chaingrab is done by performing a throw and grabbing the thrown opponent again with the other Climber before they fly out of range, repeating the process as necessary.

7. Ice Block Chaser
While desynched, use Ice Shot (NSpecial) with Nana and dash after the ice block with Popo. This is primarily used as a form of pressure (e.g. timing an aerial with the ice block hitting the opponent on the ground), and can combo into a grab if the ice block isn't shielded. However, with the ease of which it is to avoid and counter, Ice Block Chaser is a redundant technique.

8. Blizzard Wall
While a simple tactic, alternating jumped Blizzard (DSpecial) is quite an effecting spacing and zoning tool in many matchups, particularly against those without projectiles. The timing for the short hop version is fairly straightforward, however the full hop Blizzard Wall (essential in some matchups, e.g. Meta Knight), while not particularly hard, has slightly tricky timing for beginners. Full Hop with Popo and immediately Blizzard, then input another Blizzard while falling when Popo is half-way between his jump's peak and the ground (Nana should be just passing him on her way up).

9. Standing Nana Derivatives
With the many variations of the Standing Nana Desync (1.22), there are many applications and uses. Given here is a list of some of the variations and the uses they imply. "SND" is used in place of "Standing Nana Desync" for convenience. The format is as follows:

Derivative Name
Directions
Effect
Notes/Description
SuperGrab
SND (Late Z)
Nana dashgrabs, Popo rolls forward
A relatively unpunishable form of grabbing that attempts to put the opponent in the worst possible position. Done correctly, any action they take is punishable, with the exception of rolling into Nana (which puts them out of range for their own follow-up). However, characters with long-lasting, double-sided moves (such as R.O.B.'s DSmash) can hit you out of this.

Ice Storm
SND (Down) → Down/Forward and Special
Popo Blizzards, Nana Squalls
An excellent offensive-defensive tactic that outputs decent damage while protecting the Climbers, and comboes into aerials and grabs depending on DI.

FSmash Trap
SND (Hold Late Attack)
Nana charges an FSmash, Popo FTilts
A camping setup that allows Popo many more options while being backed by a fully charged FSmash. Most notably leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4).

Reverse FSmash Trap
SND (Hold Early Attack)
Nana charges a reverse FSmash, Popo reverse Jabs
Has the same connotations of camping and pressure as the FSmash Trap, but performed facing the opposite direction.

USmash Trap
SND (Up) → Hold Attack
Nana charges an USmash, Popo UTilts
With similar connotations of camping and pressure, this is nonetheless a much more offensively viable version of the FSmash Trap. While it of course leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4), it also acts as an effective anti-air strategy and sets up comboes, most notably Popo Utilt → Nana USmash → Smash-Cancelled Belay.

B-Sync
SND (Early NSpecial)
Popo Ice Shots (direction depending on timing), Nana short-dashes
The fastest version of the SND and one of the fastest desynchs in the game, faster even than Pivot (NSpecial). Although nothing else about it is special, its speed makes it perfect for pure desynching.

Taunt Trap
SND (Taunt)
Popo Taunts, Nana short-dashes
The amazingness of Ice Climbers' taunts leaves the opponent bewildered, allowing for a free follow-up of Nana's own bewildered choosing!

DSmash Protector
SND (Dashdance)CStick Down and Grab
Popo reverse-dashgrabs, Nana charges a DSmash
Most notably leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4), but is also useful in that the DSmash can be Smash-Cancelled.

Shield Roll
SND (Shield)
Popo Shields, Nana Rolls (direction depending on timing)
Moderately useful for both desynching and positioning simultaneously, but comparatively useless to other SND derivatives.

Dash Spacer
SND (Very Late Attack)
Popo FTilts, Nana Dash Attacks
A decently-ranged approach that keeps Popo safe while allowing for follow-ups from the Dash Attack.

SUPER AWESOME SPECIAL TAUNT
SND (Forward)Forward/Down (Hold Until Stop)FTaunt
Popo and Nana cross hammers while taunting
The opponent dies.​
10. Recovery Deception
When recovering with Squall Hammer and you land on the ground facing away from the opponent, use the Squall Desync (1.16) to have Nana Blizzard (DSpecial) facing backward, surprising the opponent, and follow-up with Popo, most notably with grabs.

11. Comboing into Grabs
Chaingrabbing is Ice Climbers' most important tool. However, with their poor grab range and lacklustre maneuverability, not to mention lack of grab setups in general, a huge problem lies in getting the grabs to start them. In general, desynching helps this process, allowing you to pressure, increase maneuverability, confuse and in some cases combo your opponent.
Established desync-based combos/setups into grabs include TetraBomber's desync combo pioneering (2.3), Nana Charge Deception (2.4), Ice Block Chaser (2.7), Recovery Deception (2.10) and, more recently, the Dashbounce Desync (1.26), which is currently being toted as the desync that finally gives us a true grab setup. While it is untested in tournament play and at present we have no truly inescapable grab setups, the various tactics we gain from desynching are a real hope and help.



3. Reference

Old Desynching Thread by Kyu Puff
Lots of existing information about Desynching, in particular methods of initiation.

Ice Block Lock by VirtualVoid
Details and discussion regarding the Ice Block Lock.

Standing Nana Desync by DreamScythe
Discovery thread of the SND and related techniques, including the Supergrab.

Reverse Grab Smash by LinkinParkmetre
Explanation and video of the Reverse Grab Smash.

Dash Delay Desync by swordgard
Details and discussion regarding the Dash Delay Desync.

Desync Combo Starters by TetraBomber
An exploration of comboing using Desynching.

Hyphen Smash Desync by Nintendogs
Discovery thread of the Hyphen Smash Desync.

Nana Charge Deception by Hylian
An exploration of mindgames resulting from charging a desynched FSmash.

Nana Braking by Hylian
Saving Nana by resynching with her as she is launched past you.

Dashbounce Desync by Hylian
Discovery thread and discussion for the Dashbounce Desync, aka Hylian Desync.

Guide to Desynching by exarch
The classic Melee guide, a great source of inspiration. Learn Melee ICs guys, they're too pro.



4. Credit

speedsk8er for 1.1, 1.7, 1.18 and 1.19.
Kyu Puff for 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, 1.12, 1.13 and 1.19.
Som for 1.2, 1.11, 1.17 and 1.21.
OoNoiRoO for 1.3.
VirtualVoid for 1.5 and 2.1.
Wobbles the Phoenix for 1.6 and 1.20.
Smasher89 for 1.7.
DreamScythe for 1.22 and 2.9.
LinkinParkmetre for 2.2.
swordgard for 1.23.
TetraBomber for 1.24, 2.3 and 2.11.
Nintendogs for 1.25.
Hylian for 1.27, 2.4, 2.5 and 2.11.
slacker! for 1.14.
ChuDat for 1.15.
KazenoZ for 1.16.
Mac2942 for 1.16.
shmot for 2.10.
Smoom for 1.28.
exarch for his incredible Guide to Desynching in Melee.
ME for being awesome and writing this, also 1.5, 1.8, 1.9 and 1.27.
KawaiiBunny! for being cute.
Lain for being sexy.


Notes for Future Edits
- Item (Hold A) > DSC > ? > **** w Item
- Item Throw > ?
- Blonde Roll: f1 tap back, f2 press shield, no leeway
- Rev. Initial Dash Roll Cancel - f1 tap back, f7 tap shield, pretty sure no leeway?
- RID/Hylian see analysis thread
- LD1/LD2 = Buffered Rev. Hylian/RID?
- pivotwalk desync
- split stick desync, nana dashes normally but walks if buffered (hameln)
 

r3d d09

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#3
copy and paste from the old desync thread.
also. I requested this to be an attack desync thread ;), make both desync and a desync attack thread.

a one stop should would be bomb.

EDIT: read the whole post, basically what i said but different wording. bravo
10CLAPS
 

EverAlert

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#4
wckd - haha well I'm not a desynching master, I just volunteered to start and maintain this thread. There are definitely people better than me at desynching, so I opened it up for discussion. :p

r3d d09 - Ah, getting info from the old thread is a good idea for a starting point, I'll go through it and add it all in when I get the time; still gotta get people to discuss it and such though, to make it fresh and up-to-date. :p Also, by desynch attack I assume you mean using desynching offensively?
 

Smoom77

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#6
I have some too. You can desync out of any tilt that hits your opponent. It won't desync unless you hit them. You can also desync out of a squall that's on the ground. And then you can also desync out of a shield! The problem is that out of a shield, you can only desync with a squall (which is desycned :/) and belay. I'm not sure if they've tested it that much, so we might want to look into that. I could try testing it.
 

r3d d09

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#7
wckd - haha well I'm not a desynching master, I just volunteered to start and maintain this thread. There are definitely people better than me at desynching, so I opened it up for discussion. :p

r3d d09 - Ah, getting info from the old thread is a good idea for a starting point, I'll go through it and add it all in when I get the time; still gotta get people to discuss it and such though, to make it fresh and up-to-date. :p Also, by desynch attack I assume you mean using desynching offensively?
sure, desynced offensively sounds so much more professional. ;)

i was messing around last week. i found another way to desync. it doesn't work every time, but i didn't test it thoroughly. Z+ C stick direction you're facing. same effect as the shield roll.
 

Funen1

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#9
I'll admit, I'm a bit confused on how exactly the Pivot Ice Block desynch works. Is it supposed to be a B-reversed Ice Block after turning around, or does something else happen to desynch the ICs?

And then you can also desync out of a shield! The problem is that out of a shield, you can only desync with a squall (which is desycned :/) and belay. I'm not sure if they've tested it that much, so we might want to look into that. I could try testing it.
I remember when this was discovered. You really can't do much to desynch from a shield, and whatever you can do is usually not feasible in the heat of battle. Belay (desynched or not) is not supposed to be a useful attack anyway, and desynched Squall deals little knockback on all the hits, making it easily punishable.
 

r3d d09

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#11
I was thinking i would help out, making sections and what not. colors. etc. I've been a mod before for a few sites so when it comes to stuff like this. I'd love to help out... but i'm no mod ;/
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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#12
often after i use a synched squall to recover over/under my opponent (so i land facing the opposite way to where my opponent is), i buffer a blizzard in the lag (which only nana will do, and she'll do it facing your opponent) and the try and grab or something with popo. mindgames ftw. its pretty easy to do aswell, even if you ac it.

i actually wouldnt mind the pivot desynch explained either... i can do it often, but not 100% of the time, and my nana always goes behind popo, not in front (lain's nana always dashes in front of popo).
 

EverAlert

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#13
e_alert, I like everything your doing, but this was also meant to be more in-depth.
Could you also make it look nicer with colored font? ;O
Yeah dude, I understand. I just wanted to start this up since nobody seemed to want to take the initiative. I'll have plenty of time after Sunday to flesh this out properly. :)


Funen - For the Pivot Desynch, off the top of my head I believe you tap back and release super quickly (so they don't dash), then press B. Apparently it is the fastest known desynch. That's without checking though, I could be thinking of the wrong one.


Also: Updated the first post with info people have posted. Please bear with the extremely loose format for now guys, I'll make it look pretty real soon. :3
 

Kage Me

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#15
You can desync very easily out of Belay - Popo can climb on the edge far earlier than Nana. It's not very practical in normal combat, but something to keep in mind during recovery.
 

Attila_

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#17
hitting back on the joystick and z at the same time make popo roll backwards and nana do a reverse dash grab, which is a really easy desynch that retreats a little aswell.
 

r3d d09

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#18
hitting back on the c-stick and z at the same time make popo roll backwards and nana do a reverse dash grab, which is a really easy desynch that retreats a little aswell.
I think this is the one that i talked about before. but I probably said the wrong direction. can't remember. haven't played for awhile. but I remember i discovered this a few weeks back. :D
 

Attila_

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#19
oops, its supposed to say joystick. she grabs, not rolls. sometimes she grabs facing the original direction (which is much more useful) but i cant work out what causes it. probably some kind of really specific timing.
 

EverAlert

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#20
In regards to rolling, the C-Stick and the Control Stick are treated the same way. All techs for all characters involving rolling should be doable with both sticks (except the ones needing different inputs from both sticks at the same time, obviously).

Also: working on the prettification/indepth-ness now, should have the first version of it up sometime today.
 

r3d d09

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Saratoga Springs, Not NY
#21
In regards to rolling, the C-Stick and the Control Stick are treated the same way. All techs for all characters involving rolling should be doable with both sticks (except the ones needing different inputs from both sticks at the same time, obviously).

Also: working on the prettification/indepth-ness now, should have the first version of it up sometime today.
Good stuff right thur
 
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ValiantVyse
#22
Sometimes when hitting with a synced jab combo, I've gotten Popo to do both hits and Nana to skip the second hit and grab, and each thing connected. I'll look into it.
I've been able to have nana do a desynced squall after running toward an edge, turning around on it and then side b-ing. Sounds useless, maybe you can do others move out of it?
 

r3d d09

Smash Master
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#23
Sometimes when hitting with a synced jab combo, I've gotten Popo to do both hits and Nana to skip the second hit and grab, and each thing connected. I'll look into it.
I've been able to have nana do a desynced squall after running toward an edge, turning around on it and then side b-ing. Sounds useless, maybe you can do others move out of it?
this sounds intense, definitely get back to us when you research this.
 
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ValiantVyse
#24
I'm kind of doing the jab thing by doing the first jab, holding shield and jabbing again late in the combo. I have a replay, if anyone wants to see it.

With the edge desync thingy, I've gotten nana to instant edgehog by herself(sorta) and ice shot, I can't do it consistently yet.
 

momochuu

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Momochuu
#25
When jabbing, are you actually hitting someone? If you are, that's probably the hitlag or buffer desynch.
 

EverAlert

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#27
So, my laptop... died. I almost finished it too. ;_;

So yeah, I'm trying to fix it now. At the very least I'll try to backup my **** so I can at least get working on the document again. In the meantime I'll probably finish off the dthrow chain stuff since I can remember most of that stuff even without having the document on me.



btw, does anyone have a video handy of the pivot desynchs (10/11 in Kyu Puff's guide)? Or perhaps explain the input to me in a way that isn't "do a pivot"? I don't really know what they're meant to look like or what you're meant to do. All my guesses seem to be the same as other desynchs. :/
 

DanGR

BRoomer
GRimer
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#29
You can dash dance, and then upsmash as Nana pivots and you'll desynch that way. Popo will slide forward and Nana won't because she has no momentum at the time.

Sometimes when hitting with a synced jab combo, I've gotten Popo to do both hits and Nana to skip the second hit and grab, and each thing connected. I'll look into it.
I just messed around with this.

What happens is they both hit the opponent, Popo jabs, and nana grabs.

If you wait a bit after you jab, and then hold down shield and press A, you can jab with Popo because the jab hasn't really canceled yet, and you grab with Nana because she's 6 or w/e frames behind Popo and the jab has been canceled.

The timing is really, really strict.
 

DreamScythe

Smash Rookie
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Apr 20, 2008
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#31
The Standing Nana Desync is probably the least known and most under apperciated desync. Its also the best thing that has happened to the Ice Climbers since chaingrabs, due to the power and applications the the SND has.

You can read up on it

Here

and a little more information is on it

Here

Seriously, any Ice Climber player worth his salt should read up on it.
 

r3d d09

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#32
Dream Scythe, i'd love to see some videos of your techniques. controller view as well. I just think with such great techniques, and no one knowing them really, this would make it better. any video demonstration gets more hype just because it's a video
 

EverAlert

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EVAL89
#34
It's coming!

I'm sure you can understand the troubles of a geek and his broken computer... right? ;_;

Anyway see the title, hopefully we'll know if the data is lost within a couple of days. But even if it's lost, I'm going to start it over, and try not to feel too guilty that this has taken forever and a day. D:
 

r3d d09

Smash Master
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#36
Sorry for the double post, but i'm doing this as a bump and as another desync i have noticed.

it's the worst one yet i assure you xD.
you desync by grabbing, have nana jump, you Uthrow and then you jump after , nana should land as you're in the air, then desync from there.
Please don't use this in a game, just go for a CG :p
 

EverAlert

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#37
*points at first post*

Life, ded laptop, having to physically write it all twice, lots of travel, double checking/learning them all myself. Bite me.

So yeah, it's up.


NOTES/Things to Do

- Need to verify some of the desynchs, because I'm not sure if they even work or if they're just forms of other desynchs or whatever. The ones I am talking about are 1.12 (I can't get this to work even going frame by frame), 1.14 (is this online-only?), 1.13 (can't figure out the timing for Nana doing the move instead of Popo, only one frame seems to desync), 1.24 (is this the Squall Desync?), 1.19 (is this the Pivot Desync without the dash?) and 1.25 (not sure exactly how it works, guessing something similar to Buffer/Turnaroud/Backdash Smash desynchs).

- Got to reorganise/verify data in 2.3 and 2.9. Perhaps a new section dedicated to focussed lists of specific applications?

- 2.11 is super-fluffy and doesn't really say much, got to rewrite it.

- Applications in general are incomplete and I'm not sure what I'm talking about half the time.

- I have a new section in the works that I didn't really feel appropriate to add at present (I'll bring it up again after the main Solo DThrow stuff is all done).

- General typos/correctness.

- Want to prettify it with images.


How YOU Can Help

- Read it and give feedback! Tell me anything from factual to typographical errors, and be ruthless. The more correct this is, the better.

- Discuss desynching tactics and applications, and weed out the bs from what I've written on that topic so far. I don't care if I have to dump a lot of writing to make the whole thing better, just be honest and tell me how it is. :3

- Tell me wtf is up with the desynchs I mentioned above.

- DON'T worry about images, I have a specific way I want to do that so I want to do it myself, basically just waiting till I have my own computer again.



And with that, I present to you the Brawl edition of the Guide to Desynching!
 
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