ThreeSided
Smash Ace
If there are bananas out, wouldn't you just pick the up with your DA?
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[Guide] - Buffered Dash Attack Locks (Updated 6/27) - Now With Video
- Thread starter Supermodel From Paris
- Start date
1. Your next intended DA would throw the banana.
2. You can only hold one item at any given time.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Or you can go lol, and just glide toss it at him, pick up the next nanner during the slide hit him with it again, then d-smash, its not particularly hard.
Landing a D-Smash is really difficult after a banana trip, Norad. There are a total of twenty frames of startup.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Really hasn't been a problem for me, but then again I play with and against a diddy all the time in casuals.Landing a D-Smash is really difficult after a banana trip, Norad. There are a total of twenty frames of startup.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
For anyone wondering, nair1 autocanceled is a good setup for dazlock for the characters that start at very low percents (Olimar, MK, others)
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Fthrow also combos into dash attack on many characters and usually just at the percent before Dash Attacks start chaining.
xDD-Master
Smash Champion
Well...
What do you think about this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jcOgcy3DMA
I'm not sure how easy this can be escaped via DI or how much influence move dimishing has.
So maybe someone could try this with a human in normal Brawl-Mode (Not Training Mode)
What do you think about this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jcOgcy3DMA
I'm not sure how easy this can be escaped via DI or how much influence move dimishing has.
So maybe someone could try this with a human in normal Brawl-Mode (Not Training Mode)
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Unfortunately, the Dsmash takes too long for it to be comboed in. It's actually pretty easy to escape at the Dsmash bits.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I said this in a comment, but:
1. The consecutive hits meter is terrible, which is why everything should be tested with a human player. Dash attack locks don't register with consecutive hits, though, either. (This is in response to something someone said in a YouTube comment.)
2. The "infinite" you propose is not a true combo. However, as I said once before in the thread, it is possible to "mindgame" your opponent into being hit by the down smash. I don't think I've yet missed a dsmash out of a dash attack lock unless the opponent buffers a shield. In most cases, they're trying to SDI out, though.
Still, you shouldn't try it more than once in a while or you'll get punished hard.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
Ya SFP hit me with the dsmash even though I knew what to do (I blame lagfi). It's not intuitive to escape so this can definitely work once or twice unless they troll our boards and know what to do.
And move decay will make the lock last longer. Notice how in your vid MK starts getting knocked back at a higher angle? That's when the lock ended, and in a real match those are the percents where you can no longer begin the lock (it's a huge window to start it though).
And move decay will make the lock last longer. Notice how in your vid MK starts getting knocked back at a higher angle? That's when the lock ended, and in a real match those are the percents where you can no longer begin the lock (it's a huge window to start it though).
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Actually he was in training mode, so in a real match, if the attack was decayed it might have still worked.
*I taped the 2nd controller's shield button down during these matches.*
I've had MK at 9, 16, or 23% during these tests, and started at many distance; nothing worked. I can continuously DA at the edge, like FadedImage suggested. I even went into training to test my buffering. I set the speed at 1/4, and input another DA right as she descends, the buffering was correct, but the lock wasn't. The second DA was power shielded every time.
The %'s you claim are the starting points have 2 hitstun animations: 0-20 & 21-57. According to my results, it is possible to buffer a shield during both animations, thus discrediting this "lock".
If you wish to correct me, then add me on Wifi and perform your "lock" on me.
Red=Applies to all (?) characters.
I've had MK at 9, 16, or 23% during these tests, and started at many distance; nothing worked. I can continuously DA at the edge, like FadedImage suggested. I even went into training to test my buffering. I set the speed at 1/4, and input another DA right as she descends, the buffering was correct, but the lock wasn't. The second DA was power shielded every time.
The %'s you claim are the starting points have 2 hitstun animations: 0-20 & 21-57. According to my results, it is possible to buffer a shield during both animations, thus discrediting this "lock".
If you wish to correct me, then add me on Wifi and perform your "lock" on me.
Red=Applies to all (?) characters.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOthisisSFP'sfaultOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!*I taped the 2nd controller's shield button down during these matches.*
I've had MK at 9, 16, or 23% during these tests, and started at many distance; nothing worked. I can continuously DA at the edge, like FadedImage suggested. I even went into training to test my buffering. I set the speed at 1/4, and input another DA right as she descends, the buffering was correct, but the lock wasn't. The second DA was power shielded every time.
The %'s you claim are the starting points have 2 hitstun animations: 0-20 & 21-57+. According to my results, it is possible to buffer a shield during both animations, thus discrediting this "lock".
If you wish to correct me, then add me on Wifi and perform your "lock" on me.
Confirm anybody? =\
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I tried this guy's test.
This lock only works on Meta Knight when Dash Attack is fresh, and only after 40% or so, but I don't have an exact percent.
The locks work, but perhaps I need to evaluate the characters on an individual basis.
I also used this test on King Dedede, and everything works as I wrote in the guide. I'm going to do per character tests and get some more specific results in the morning. I really should have done it a while ago, I'm just lazy.
DA was fresh everytime, I SD'd after every failed attempt (all of them were). 40% is still in the 2nd hitstun animation. 57% is when the 3rd animation starts. I didn't test that one, because it will only link 2, maybe 3 hits.
Most likely not.
I'll test DeDeDe's now, at all of your %'s, plus each animation's starting %.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
So far, this is what I have found using your exact test:
Does not work on:
Mario
Luigi
Works on:
Peach after 50%
Bowser after 50%
Donkey Kong after 50%
Diddy Kong after 50%
Yoshi after 50%
If the 3rd animation starts at 57%, maybe the dash attack's one decay gets them to 57% from here, starting the lock. Dash attack is 8%.
In each of these cases, the dash attack was decayed various amounts. The most exact I have is Diddy Kong's, who I had used exactly once.
I have taped the shield button down and went into vs. mode. I dsmashed the second player to 50% and started the chain. In each case, the chain functioned as it should. In some cases, the dash attack needed to be decayed once. I would then walk the second player off the edge, come back, and try again. With dash attack decayed once, it worked with Diddy Kong.
EDIT: This is seemingly confirmed. Starting it at 49-50%+ seems to work fine. Are you getting different results?
DeDeDe's did not work at 26%. :/
I tested Diddy Kong at 49 & 52% with one DA used, it chained till the end of FD! However, with 2 decayed, it only chained 2 DA's total. 3 decayed didn't get anymore than 1 (the attempt at chaining, second was PS).
This lock seems to be highly situational, unless you can figure out the % one can be locked with X amount of decayed DA's. :/
I tested Diddy Kong at 49 & 52% with one DA used, it chained till the end of FD! However, with 2 decayed, it only chained 2 DA's total. 3 decayed didn't get anymore than 1 (the attempt at chaining, second was PS).
This lock seems to be highly situational, unless you can figure out the % one can be locked with X amount of decayed DA's. :/
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
It does seem somewhat more situational now, but I'm glad it works and I'm glad we were able to figure it out. Thanks.
Here are the rules, I believe:
The dsmash you perform must knock the opponent over 56% damage (so to 57%). This means that it works when fresh best between 50 and 60. The higher you go, the more decayed dash attack needs to be. That's not actually that big a deal, since once you start the chain fresh it decays on it's own.
Also, you'll notice that the chain works on Dedede fully decayed for quite a while. It seems character specific.
A chart displaying the %'s (X) and # (Y) of decays could definitely be useful.
Something like this, only simpler.
http://pokemon-evolution.tripod.com/elementalchart.html
I'd be more than happy to help test (If you need/want help). I just have to find my account password or email. XD
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Sure. I'll be up for a while. PM me your AIM if you have one and I'll IM you. Thanks for the help.
Edit: This guy and i just stayed up for hours putting together data for... five characters. Long way to go. But enjoy it.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Yeah it often wouldn't work below 50% for me, so I just let the standard rule be the loop works fresh starting around 50%, I just figured I was doing it wrong or something.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Sounds like this is getting complicated fast.
Most of all, I want to know about snake. Are his % true? I remember my opponent escaping from it at the tourney I went to when I started it at 50%, but I just assumed I had done it wrong.
Most of all, I want to know about snake. Are his % true? I remember my opponent escaping from it at the tourney I went to when I started it at 50%, but I just assumed I had done it wrong.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Actually, goop was wrong about that. Most characters start between 34 and 37%. Read the updated sections of the OP. There is, however, a dead zone in the middle of the combo that causes the target to "bounce" for no reason. Some characters can be hit out of this before the tech window though, so it doesn't matter.
@ThreeSided: We'll do Snake today.
goop123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7
Finished Mario and DK. (took about an hour)
Mario: Very common %'s.
Start-last % before dead zone ( 41-59% )
Dead zone ( 60-67% )
First % that the tech range disappears-Last % the second (buffered) DA connects ( 68-96% )
DK: Strangest character I've tested.
[Same format as above]
40-65%
66-80% ---- The first and last few %'s have about a 1 frame tech window...
81-113%
Mario: Very common %'s.
Start-last % before dead zone ( 41-59% )
Dead zone ( 60-67% )
First % that the tech range disappears-Last % the second (buffered) DA connects ( 68-96% )
DK: Strangest character I've tested.
[Same format as above]
40-65%
66-80% ---- The first and last few %'s have about a 1 frame tech window...
81-113%
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Did you test with decay?
goop123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7
Wouldn't 1 decay follow the same rules as the others?
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Yeah, probably. I'll update the OP.
goop123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7
I have to get ready for a baby shower in an hour, so I (we) can probably get snake done now.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Confirmed. I didn't make a new table for him, however; I just added him to the Donkey Kong Table. Both end at 107%, it seems, and the percentages are only slightly different for the "dead zone" which I made a note of. The thing is there's no practical use for the "dead zone" because most people will have decay on their dash attack and just skip right over it.
Nefarious B
Smash Champion
If the "bounce" allows a true combo into dsmash it'd be huge to find where that bounce happens. 37% to finish off the lock, that's super sexy.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
The "bounce" allows a dash attack before the tech window and forces a get-up. You can dsmash during the get-up.
goop123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7
The"bounce" to force get up appears with decay. During the 50's and 60's, DA to Dsmash appears to be a true combo, so if you miss the DA buffer, a Dsmash will most likely come out; either is quite acceptable.
Marth:
38-55%
56-65%
66-96%
He was kinda rushed, so confirm when you can.
I have to go now, I'll test more on monday.
Marth:
38-55%
56-65%
66-96%
He was kinda rushed, so confirm when you can.
I have to go now, I'll test more on monday.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
Code:
Character Start End
------------------------------------
Bowser 38 70
Donkey Kong 43 69
Snake 42 68
King Dedede 37 67
Charizard 42 66
Ganondorf 41 66
Samus 46 66
Wario 46 66
Yoshi 46 66
ROB 46 65
Ike 46 65
Captain Falcon 45 65
Link 40 65
Wolf 45 64
Ivysaur 44 63
Lucario 44 62
Mario 44 62
Luigi 44 62
Sonic 43 61
Lucas 38 61
Ness 43 61
Pit 38 61
Diddy Kong 43 61
Ice Climbers 42 59
Toon Link 42 60
Peach 42 60
Marth 41 59
Sheik 40 58
Zelda 40 58
Falco 40 57
Olimar 40 57
ZSS 39 56
Fox 39 56
Meta Knight 39 56
Pikachu 39 56
Kirby 39 55
Squirtle 38 54
Jigglypuff 36 52
Game & Watch 35 54Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I updated the OP with COMPLETE DATA, a new guide, and better organization. Enjoy.
ThreeSided
Smash Ace
Have you guys experimented with this on sloped surfaces? Here's what I think might happen:
Going down hill might give them more time to buffer a dodge or shield to get out. OR it could cause them to not hit tech frames in time, making them chained when they usually couldn't. =)
Going up hill would probably cause them to hit the ground every time for a bounce. This could mean that they can tech throughout, making it not as useful. OR like with the bounces you mentioned, it will cause them to be hit anyways because they wont hit tech frames in time, meaning that the bounce would just mean that they get hit every time, possibly making it a zero-death on some characters on stages such as lost planet and yoshi's island (melee). =D
Yoshi's (melee) and lost planet for ZSS counterpick choices anyone?
Or it could just have no effect...
I think it's worth checking out, though. =)
Going down hill might give them more time to buffer a dodge or shield to get out. OR it could cause them to not hit tech frames in time, making them chained when they usually couldn't. =)
Going up hill would probably cause them to hit the ground every time for a bounce. This could mean that they can tech throughout, making it not as useful. OR like with the bounces you mentioned, it will cause them to be hit anyways because they wont hit tech frames in time, meaning that the bounce would just mean that they get hit every time, possibly making it a zero-death on some characters on stages such as lost planet and yoshi's island (melee). =D
Yoshi's (melee) and lost planet for ZSS counterpick choices anyone?
Or it could just have no effect...
I think it's worth checking out, though. =)
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
I performed the lock on the sloped section of castle siege with no problem.