Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Mogwai]

it's probably just that I play ranged carries with stupid range, but I don't like wriggle's bot atm. I only play trist and kog down there though (AND ****ING PANTHEON), I might feel differently if I played people with less than 123719082378812 range (OR 37192837129837128 BURST DAMAGE).

 

[DarkDragoon]

it's probably just that I play ranged carries with stupid range, but I don't like wriggle's bot atm. I only play trist and kog down there though (AND ****ING PANTHEON), I might feel differently if I played people with less than 123719082378812 range (OR 37192837129837128 BURST DAMAGE).

Mogwai, I respect you as a better player than me, and as someone who does math better than I do, but I think you might want to double check those numbers.

Like, by my calculations [probably wrong] Vayne can't do that kind of damage.



Until level 4.
-DD

 

[Mogwai]

Mogwai, I respect you as a better player than me, and as someone who does math better than I do, but I think you might want to double check those numbers.

Like, by my calculations [probably wrong] Vayne can't do that kind of damage.



Until level 4.
-DD

Where are you getting Vayne from my post?

I was talking about ****ING PANTHEON.

Re-check with Pantheon, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[UTDZac]

Vayne is so freaking stupid

EDIT: Also wtf @ Condemn stun dealing double damage. Who knew!

 

[DarkDragoon]

Where are you getting Vayne from my post?

I was talking about ****ING PANTHEON.

Re-check with Pantheon, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I got Vayne from "People played".


I'll try Panth next time he catches the rotation. He always seemed like someone I would enjoy.
-DD

 

[jpak]

Interesting take on things.

Disagree about wriggles tho. If the other lanes are all winning/pushing towers hard and can maintain that pressure, there's not really much of a reason to group up and try to teamfight, imo. In that situation, wriggles is good for split pushing on some champs- something CLG is particularly good at, might I add.

Personally, I've weaned off using it though. I just get a vamp scepter if I need more sustain, then build normal items, BT if needed.

I agree with most of the thing he mentions except soraka mf being one of the strongest support/ad carry lane, and sivir being weak late game.

What you describe dan doesn't really help that much, your split push can be handled safely by your tanky top lane. If you do a 1/3/1 split then that mid lane will lose guranteed if the other goes as 5, or if you go as 4 without the ranged carry pushing may be hard too. Increasing the farming phase will only help the team that is behind. If your team is built for split push then that's something else. But you can't build a team with the assumption that you will win your lane and can safely get a wriggle (at least in a competitive setting)

When I supoprt an ad carry and we are ahead, then he chooses to buy wriggles I feel he kind of gives up a potentially large advantage he had if he bought a big ticket damage item because he cant effectively kill and snowball versis the enemy ad carry as well.

The two situations I see wriggles being useful on the ranged carries are when your team is behind and need sustain to keep up in lane and get quick drags/baron to turn the game around, or the opposing team is huge on AD (4 champs) so you need a source of armor. Wriggle is good on some champs, but for the ranged ad carry question that doublelift is responding to, I agree that it is not a good item.

 

[Wave⁂]

Me and a friend tried Soraka / Ezreal bot lane last night. So many Mystic Shots.

 

[MacD]

Vayne is so freaking stupid

EDIT: Also wtf @ Condemn stun dealing double damage. Who knew!

...... everyone

 

[PhantomX]

Be nice, MacD. Zac is a little slow.

 

[KevinM]

Also Kennen can Q while in his ball Zac!

*gives another doggy treat*

Edit: Also wish Doublelift would stop referring to animation cancelling as orbwalking >_>.

 

[UTDZac]

Why? That's what they called it in Dota no?

 

[jpak]

I find more people don't know that if Ezreal's Q hits it reduces all cooldowns by one scond, and that Anivia's ult slows attack speed

 

[KevinM]

Incorrect, orbwalking in DotA was using something like Drow's frost arrow and manually casting it over and over again in between animation cancels to not draw creep aggro while harassing.

Animation cancelling is just attacking/cancel to move forward.

@PapaJ plz kid I played EZ so much for my first few months I knew that np np

 

[DanGR]

I agree with most of the thing he mentions except soraka mf being one of the strongest support/ad carry lane, and sivir being weak late game.

What you describe dan doesn't really help that much, your split push can be handled safely by your tanky top lane. If you do a 1/3/1 split then that mid lane will lose guranteed if the other goes as 5, or if you go as 4 without the ranged carry pushing may be hard too. Increasing the farming phase will only help the team that is behind. If your team is built for split push then that's something else. But you can't build a team with the assumption that you will win your lane and can safely get a wriggle (at least in a competitive setting)

What I had in mind was 4 man mid after top tower goes down with ranged AD bot with a wriggles who could farm/solo most champs, but you're saying a good tanky top lane could go bot to stop that champ and make it a stalemate or something? That late into the game wouldn't the ranged AD's farm have a bigger impact on the game later? While your ranged AD is farming, theirs is sitting mid not doing much. And if that's a good trade, you don't even have to push that mid tower. Or is this not right. Obviously, you're way more experienced with this sort of thing, so I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate here.

And you wouldn't get the wriggles with the assumption you're going to win your lane. It'd be an item you buy if you DO win it and plan on farming/pushing bot with your team mid or something. And obviously you wouldn't do that split if dragon's up.

When I supoprt an ad carry and we are ahead, then he chooses to buy wriggles I feel he kind of gives up a potentially large advantage he had if he bought a big ticket damage item because he cant effectively kill and snowball versis the enemy ad carry as well.

yeah... in soloqueue I see graves players rush it after a really early kill. why u no buy damage

 

[Legend4ryFlower]

I main ad carries so this is my take on the wriggles situation:
Unless you have dedicated healer that just heals you constantly (and even then), vamp scepter is a good idea.

The good thing about wriggles though is that the armor is good enough that you if the enemy top lane builds something like wriggles/warmogs (aka every single gp, sometimes wukong, etc), you can safely ignore their damage in teamfights.

Without wriggles, their tank is a significant damage threat to you. With wriggles, not so much.

Also wriggles on vayne is really strong cause she does so much damage and has utility anyway. Same thing with kog, but to lesser extent. Ezreal does stupid midgame damage no matter what.

For trist and ashe though, I feel like you need the damage as soon as possible.

Also i dont see how wriggles gives better dragon or baron control. Proc isnt going to matter in the scheme of things, and youre still goning to do about the same damage to it as if you had just bought heavy damage items.

Also I havent seen clg be good at splitpushing in a while. Hotshot doesnt play too many strong split pushing (1v1 adept and wave clearing) champions. Maybe they can do the strat, but they shouldnt be noted as being "particularly good" at it.
Just my 2cents.

 

[UTDZac]

1600 gold = 23 dmg
1650 gold = 45 dmg

It's always a hard decision for an AD carry.

 

[Legend4ryFlower]

-being zoned by their bruiser -> taking off 1/5 of his health over 5 seconds
-killing their caster or support, or trading favorably with their ad carry

Yeah, I dont know which to pick!

 

[JTB]

unless your team is bad, most of the time your team is going to be peeling their tank/bruisers off you anyways

 

[PhantomX]

I find more people don't know that if Ezreal's Q hits it reduces all cooldowns by one scond, and that Anivia's ult slows attack speed

I will admit that the Anvia thing I only found out about about a month and a half ago. That was a pretty random discovery because it's only like 20%? Not enough to be immediately visible like those 60% as reduction skills.

 

[jpak]

Long post but I think someone will learn something from it if they read it, so it will be worth it.

What I had in mind was 4 man mid after top tower goes down with ranged AD bot with a wriggles who could farm/solo most champs, but you're saying a good tanky top lane could go bot to stop that champ and make it a stalemate or something? That late into the game wouldn't the ranged AD's farm have a bigger impact on the game later? While your ranged AD is farming, theirs is sitting mid not doing much. And if that's a good trade, you don't even have to push that mid tower. Or is this not right. Obviously, you're way more experienced with this sort of thing, so I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate here.

And you wouldn't get the wriggles with the assumption you're going to win your lane. It'd be an item you buy if you DO win it and plan on farming/pushing bot with your team mid or something. And obviously you wouldn't do that split if dragon's up.

No, I am saying you're better off having your tanky top lane split pushing rather than your AD carry. And if you're talking about late game then wriggle isn't even worse? I don't understand, I think we're both talking about different scenarios. Just ask me on vent when we're in that 10 min queue for a normal zz.

The situation I am thinking of is what you described as the AD carry getting an advantage, then buying wriggle to split push and not group up since it might give a chance for the disadvantage team. The way I see it getting wriggle doesn't really help you split push all that more, if someone comes to defend you and you don't think you have enough survivability to fight them, then your opposite lanes are supposed to take advantage, drawing the enemy to you to defend is 100% what you want. Split push with wards and then everything is safe. With the common AD carries let's say ez sivir corki trist for example, one wriggle proc will kill lthe minion faster than let's two or three hits from an ad carry with BF and scepter, but these carries push so well as is with their abilities. I imagine you will end up in a situation where you push really fast (i am assuming youre doing well early game and thats your reason for getting wriggle) you won't do much to the turret and will find yourself sitting and waiting for the next wave regardless.

When an ad carry solos someone ever even in laning or a split push situation, then it is 100% a misplay/miscalculation from the person that is defending, and if they can solo you under a turret then this game is over regardless of whatever item the ad carry gets.

On completely different/similar topic, in solo lane matchups, when someone dies 1v1 and complains about the matchup, so many people go well what do you want me to do not last hit, let him free farm? Basically yes, by giving up that death you give him significantly more farm, and a bigger XP advantage. You should really be able to farm at turret fine. To compensate for really hard matchups, you get a strong jungler(for example alistar lee rammus) with ganks that can happen regularly and dont largely depend on ults because to really be disadvantaged in a matchup, the enemy MUST overextend to take advantage. The only exception

When people realize the above, they will have an easier time with jarvan leona hype that goose plays. You must must be aggressive and overextend/dive to take advantage of this matchup vs ad carry/support. They cannot do so safely if you have jungle/tp pressure, sure you can say well jarvan leona can just ward up and know ahead, okay then just get a pink, it's really hard to ward up bot lane sometimes three wards isn't even enough.

I will admit that the Anvia thing I only found out about about a month and a half ago. That was a pretty random discovery because it's only like 20%? Not enough to be immediately visible like those 60% as reduction skills.

Well did you know despite a suggestion of wriggle being really strong on vayne, I think it's probably the worst of all ranged carries because your silver bolt procs(third hit) it cannot proc wriggle or lifesteal. 1/2 of your nerfed wriggle item not working on third hit on a target seems bad to me. Did you know leona's passive goes by the person's mpen that procs the passive, or sona reduces damages output by 20% if she yellow procs you. Idk, i told you about the ` button so that's enough

 

[Mogwai]

I will admit that the Anvia thing I only found out about about a month and a half ago. That was a pretty random discovery because it's only like 20%? Not enough to be immediately visible like those 60% as reduction skills.

it's still pretty noticable imo, but maybe that's just cause I play so much melee DPS and thus anytime anivia ults anywhere on a teamfight I have to deal with the debuff.

 

[Legend4ryFlower]

unless your team is bad, most of the time your team is going to be peeling their tank/bruisers off you anyways

and thus the balance between peeling for your carry and killing theirs.

also starting a teamfight with the wrong position, so that you cant peel or get to the right targets safely, doesnt make you "bad."

you made a mistake, just like top level teams do, tons of times every game.
you can theorycraft whatever, but wriggles literally makes the difference between you being in a midgame fight or out of it in many games. winning every trade bot lane too is super strong.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

They really badly need to up the speed on Yi's Alpha Strike. The move is straight garbage.

And his heal should be immune to cc.

 

[ranmaru]

What does peeling mean?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And his heal should be immune to cc.

...........

Zero, you do realize that you are pants on head ********.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Well, the guy sucks balls. He needs something drastic to remove all the balls from his mouth.

Gangplank gets an instant burst heal + cleanse, the least Yi can get is "Can't be disabled".

 

[Geoberos]

Yup. An Ezreal without the mana to blink away is a real easy target. You kept pushing the lane up too, so it was easy to pressure you and make you take lots of damage when you extended so far forward. A few times you even used your E to blink and get a last hit, which left you WIDE open. You were safer in the second game because you had Taric's stun supporting you, but you let us harass you out of lane repeatedly so you couldn't farm anyways.

Same thing top lane against your Galio. You just spammed your spells and pushed the creeps up to my tower repeatedly. And it took you two ganks before you got a ward up there. Just gotta control the creep line a lot more carefully and use your spells less often so you've got some mana when you need to fight. A ward and enough mana for both Resolute Smite and Righteous Gust could have saved you from at least one, if not both of those ganks in the first 12 minutes.

Also you have a pony avatar so I was much more motivated to destroy you and everything you hold dear. And yes I've seen the show and its still stupid.

*Wastes MP Mystic Shot last hitting creeps*
*Wastes MP Flux to lower Atk Speed on champions attacking lanemate*
*Wastes MP Arcane Shift failing to get Exhaust/Ignite on a half health champ*
Is it that I kill minions on my half of the river as soon as possible for experience or wait behind the half-way mark and not attack creeps and wait for last hits?

As for Galio, then I shouldn't be using my Resolute Smite as much as I wanted to harrass. Also Chalice or Tear? I'm switching between the two every few games, just can't decide on it.

Well I try to be the most reasonable about it of those who do, but it's inevitable that I will be targeted for it.

 

[PhantomX]

Well did you know despite a suggestion of wriggle being really strong on vayne, I think it's probably the worst of all ranged carries because your silver bolt procs(third hit) it cannot proc wriggle or lifesteal. 1/2 of your nerfed wriggle item not working on third hit on a target seems bad to me. Did you know leona's passive goes by the person's mpen that procs the passive, or sona reduces damages output by 20% if she yellow procs you. Idk, i told you about the ` button so that's enough

I did know this stuff, but when you told me about the tilde it blew my mind, especially b/c I'd been thinking how annoying it was that I couldn't click past creeps to get into better positions right when you brought it up, haha.

What does peeling mean?

When people refer to peeling they mean keeping the melee attackers off of your ranged DPS character, usually via CC.

 

[jpak]

did you know alistar can safely go over things like cait trap just by casting a spell like his heal to activiate his passive of moving through units

 

[john!]

what is the tilde thing?

 

[Mogwai]

while holding ` key, you cannot select creeps, only champs. real useful for harassing and healing.

 

[jpak]

it is also useful for general movement, let's say you want to get in the middle of wraith camp you can press tilde and then click in the middle or you want to tank baron for someone that is already tanking so you need to be the closest person then you can just tilde then click in the middle of baron.

 

[UTDZac]

it is also useful for general movement, let's say you want to get in the middle of wraith camp you can press tilde and then click in the middle or you want to tank baron for someone that is already tanking so you need to be the closest person then you can just tilde then click in the middle of baron.

is that how you used to hit wards inside baron too?

 

[john!]

wtf?? why is that not in the tutorial?

 

[Mogwai]

is that how you used to hit wards inside baron too?

no zac, we used 'a' move.

 

[UTDZac]

no zac, we used 'a' move.

A-move doesnt work if you previously attack baron ever during the entire game.

 

[jpak]

yeah that's how i used to kill the wards on baron you just walk up real close then it will automatically attack the baron ward. i think they changed it in a recent patch so that you don't automatically attack visible enemy wards so that made it difficult. but baron now knocks away near by wards so no need

 

[Sinister Slush]

Since noone seems to have posted it yet.
http://lol.uuu9.com/201112/388870.shtml?1

 

[voorhese]

while holding ` key, you cannot select creeps, only champs. real useful for harassing and healing.

this plus smartcasting should be OP

 

[PhantomX]

Slush that was garbage. Don't link that stuff again >: (