Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[@TKbreezy]

well Then I guess I'm sticking to Annie/Kennen for now

I don't like depending on my team to take down turrets sometimes though

also what do you guys think about Lichbane on annie?

 

[Mogwai]

I have this feeling that, despite my amazing performance with Leona, I am drastically overrating her.

But then I look at her W with 40% CDR and I don't think it's possible to overrate her. 8|

I currently think that she's just a worse version of Blitz/Alistar in lane who transitions into a more consistent, but less impactful tank than either of them.

I LOVED playing AP teemo back when there were roaming evelynns all over the place (and any time I see a twitch)

It's so hilarious when they are trying to stalk around and eat a massive teemo shroom to their face.

Spoiler

giggity

It's just that AP teemo is all in on map control and gets pretty much hard countered by oracles, which is popular pretty early anyways these days. It's still funny, still can wreck guys who need the element of surprise like stealthers, Yi and Fiddlesticks, and still has hilarious burst from Q -> Lichbane procced Auto, but at the end of the day it just feels way less robust than going wit's + BR + Mallet -> tank.

well Then I guess I'm sticking to Annie/Kennen for now

I don't like depending on my team to take down turrets sometimes though

also what do you guys think about Lichbane on annie?

Annie doesn't have time to wait for her terrible attack animation. I guess you can get it to tear towers down like a boss, but short of that I think it's a pretty bad idea.

 

[fkacyan]

nawww Iunno if you're overrating her. She's pretty good with a good lane mate. Just power level w!

Q>E>W>W>W>R>W>Q>W>Q>R>Q>Q>E>E>R>E>E

Regen + Pot > Philo + Boots 1 > Giant's Belt + Resist Cloak > Mercs + Ruby > Warmogs > Armor or MR

Normally I'd make armor / MR earlier but there is literally never a game where my lane is not either extremely fed or levels ahead of the others, even if we end up losing later because their jungler got fed on my always-overextending solo top or something.

I currently think that she's just a worse version of Blitz/Alistar in lane who transitions into a more consistent, but less impactful tank than either of them.

See, that's the thing. Neither of those characters bring the extra burst like she does at early levels, and that's when it can be best used to zone and get, say, level 6 while they get level 5. I got laned against an Alistair / GP as Leona / Lux last night and we killed the Alistair through a knockup and a heal before GP could do much of anything.

I honestly think it's all in her steroid.

EDIT: Also, the cool thing about her passive is that its detonation is damage for your ally, so that extra damage can help them land the kill over you, getting more gold, etc.

 

[@TKbreezy]

I mean late game

I've been build her 2 ways lately though

if I go mid:
boots 3 pots -> RoA -> Sorcs (or boots of mobility when I be trollin) -> Deathcap -> Will of ancients -> rylais

and usually by this time game is over

but if i go side line

Doran Ring 2x -> Sorcs -> deathcap -> rylais -> Will

I feel like if a Game actually goes to a 6-item game then I lichbane wouldnt be a "terrible" investment seeing as I never really build a **** ton of mana anyway so the extra mana will be nice and then that proc putting in leet deeps.

after looking at this build I just noticed i never seem to hit up a void staff.....not sure if thats a bad thing or not.

 

[Mogwai]

Q>E>W>W>W>R>W>Q>W>Q>R>Q>Q>E>E>R>E>E

Regen + Pot > Philo + Boots 1 > Giant's Belt + Resist Cloak > Mercs + Ruby > Warmogs > Armor or MR

Normally I'd make armor / MR earlier but there is literally never a game where my lane is not either extremely fed or levels ahead of the others, even if we end up losing later because their jungler got fed on my always-overextending solo top or something.

Get HoG after boots 1 IMO. She feels very gold starved and Randuin's later on synergizes very well with her W.

See, that's the thing. Neither of those characters bring the extra burst like she does at early levels, and that's when it can be best used to zone and get, say, level 6 while they get level 5. I got laned against an Alistair / GP as Leona / Lux last night and we killed the Alistair through a knockup and a heal before GP could do much of anything.

I honestly think it's all in her steroid.

EDIT: Also, the cool thing about her passive is that its detonation is damage for your ally, so that extra damage can help them land the kill over you, getting more gold, etc.

I know, I like her passive a lot. But I think the trade off for her damage (it is a bit higher under ideal circumstances than Blitz/Ali) vs. the extra utility of repositioning skills ends up favoring Blitz/Ali early in the game in practice.

I mean late game

I've been build her 2 ways lately though

if I go mid:
boots 3 pots -> RoA -> Sorcs (or boots of mobility when I be trollin) -> Deathcap -> Will of ancients -> rylais

and usually by this time game is over

but if i go side line

Doran Ring 2x -> Sorcs -> deathcap -> rylais -> Will

I feel like if a Game actually goes to a 6-item game then I lichbane wouldnt be a "terrible" investment seeing as I never really build a **** ton of mana anyway so the extra mana will be nice and then that proc putting in leet deeps.

after looking at this build I just noticed i never seem to hit up a void staff.....not sure if thats a bad thing or not.

It's not bad if your opponents don't build MRes, but assuming they do (and they should), void staff is one of the most efficient offensive investments you can make. I'm also a big old sucker for Zhonya's because I like doing Flash -> Bear -> W -> LOLSTATUE, UMAD? as an initiation. Banshee's Veil is also a pretty cool guy, eh blocks buttsehks and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It's just that AP teemo is all in on map control and gets pretty much hard countered by oracles, which is popular pretty early anyways these days. It's still funny, still can wreck guys who need the element of surprise like stealthers, Yi and Fiddlesticks, and still has hilarious burst from Q -> Lichbane procced Auto, but at the end of the day it just feels way less robust than going wit's + BR + Mallet -> tank.

true, but in the stealth remake it sounds like Oracles is getting removed because Riot hates the meta of Ward Sweeping and with the way new stealth will work, all characters will be able to see eve and twitch without oracles anyway, so AP teemo may actually work again since the only way to sweep his mushrooms will be with pink wards that you happen to put in the right place.

 

[@TKbreezy]

I like doing Flash -> Bear -> W -> LOLSTATUE, UMAD? as an initiation.

LMAO...I am...totally trying this

 

[Mogwai]

true, but in the stealth remake it sounds like Oracles is getting removed because Riot hates the meta of Ward Sweeping and with the way new stealth will work, all characters will be able to see eve and twitch without oracles anyway, so AP teemo may actually work again since the only way to sweep his mushrooms will be with pink wards that you happen to put in the right place.

ogod, removing oraclees is gonna completely change the game, I'm worried that it will be borken.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ogod, removing oraclees is gonna completely change the game, I'm worried that it will be borken.

In case you hadn't read it yet:

Hm. Okay, well, I suppose it's been a while since I've given an update so I'll chime in on this a little:

Following up from last time, the general problem(s) with long term stealth was:

1. There was no way for the opponents to get an inkling of how clever the stealth player was being, and thus there was no good way to get a sense of how that player operates.

2. Stealth is claustrophobic in the way that it makes you play.

3. Stealth gives very powerful scouting information while simultaneously hiding that information from your opponent.

We tried some iterations past the first few tests, with Paranoia, alternate resource bars, footprints, phasing and mark systems but in the end, we settled on the current system because it was the simplest solution for long-term stealth. In short: "Everyone has reduced Oracles, but Evelynn and Twitch are perma-stealthed."

Some Partial Stealth Details

Disclaimer: I fully understand this destroys a *lot* of the current stealth gameplay changes. Unfortunately, through lots of iteration, I was unable to capture the feeling of pure invisibility while in stealth while having fun gameplay. In the end, I decided to opt for a very simple system that was highly understandable over some more fiddling mechanics.

1. Evelynn and Twitch are permanently stealthed when they rank their level one stealth abilities. However, Evelynn and Twitch can be seen when they are within X units of an enemy champion (Slightly under vision range), or when they are within a true sight radius.

If they attack, they are revealed briefly for 2 seconds before going back into stealth.

This 'X' is being adjusted for feel between the two champions. 'X' is smaller than champion vision radius, so you can "stalk" an opposing champion, but it will be farther away.

2. Evelynn and Twitch have a "sight gem" above opponent's, telling them when the enemy can see them or not and whether they are "safe" (green sight gem), "warning - you are close to being seen, but still unseen" (yellow sight gem) or "being seen" (red sight gem.)

Results

Long Term Stealth, in this case, has been removed as a primary initiation mechanic but allows Eve and Twitch to cross minion vision and regular sight bubbles with impunity and sneak into brush patches by circle/stalk their opponents. Their opponents can likewise spot-check areas with their own reveal radius and create zones were stealth characters "probably aren't, otherwise they'd be seen."

The sight gem allows the Eve/Twitch player to take much of the guesswork out of figuring out when they were being seen or revealed and allows them to put more of their thoughts on clever positioning and sneaking around their opponents, especially for lane ganks.

This also lets us make them more combat oriented characters that don't immediately blow up on start. In general, this stealth has proven to be very difficult to use but allows characters to have some bluff gameplay and interesting circle/stalk gameplay in testing. Your characters can still scout, but at a highly diminished effectiveness (due to the increased range.)

In team fights, stealth proved to be less effective than before, so the character's combat viabilities are being looked at through reworks/remakes.

What is blocking us on releasing this:

1. There's a pretty big problem with the concept known as Oracle-Sweeping. We'd want to replace Oracle's elixir with someone that doesn't cause such weird gameplay but as to what would be a *good* replacement is a little up in the air.

2. General particle/kit rebalancing work - We need to heavily redo Evelynn and Twitch's kits and that comes different visuals and graphical effects.

What I am testing right now - Additionally

Sight wards as being partial motion sensors - Sight wards signalling when a hostile is moving nearby?

"Robot Chicken" scout drone
"Wriggles" for supports?


I probably shouldn't do this but as compensation, some sneaks..

Evelynn can have her stun back, because now you have advanced warning of her when she steps in. She might need a short-step-stun in order to successfully initiate. Testing required. Twitch has proven to be a slightly harder problem in internal testing.

As an aside: Hate spike is now awesome (for me, at least). Evelynn now has Champion prioritizing Lurker Spines. This makes her lane less bad.

As usual, feel free to ask questions for a little bit as I stick around. I don't know all the details of the full remake (as Live better understands that new environment). Sorry for the delay, but with Orianna/Champion pipeline and such, this has been somewhat of a lower priority for me.

In order to work for colourblind players, the "sight Gem" particle is probaly going to look like this according to Xypherous:
Green Closed Eye = unseen
Yellow Lidded Eye = almost visible
Red Open Eye = Capable of being seen!

 

[UTDZac]

@Mogwai, Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo!

No seriously, if you want to Solo Q and actually gain elo, just play Teemo. You can play any role, carry: you output mixed dmg, or support: take cv and dont take much cs. Roam map with oracles and shrooms to help your teammates.

 

[Mogwai]

@Mogwai, Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo! Captain Teemo!

No seriously, if you want to Solo Q and actually gain elo, just play Teemo. You can play any role, carry: you output mixed dmg, or support: take cv and dont take much cs. Roam map with oracles and shrooms to help your teammates.

only 2 roles. Carry and support, lol.

seriously though, I streamed a game last night where I showed why captain teemo es #1 jungler-sitting-in-top-lane-free-farming counter. dat poison OP yo. so good at breaking this stupid ****ing meta.

 

[UTDZac]

Oh yeah, and meant to say he's really strong against melee champs top lane. Buying phage first with doran blades is hilarious

 

[Espy Rose]

I wanna play with Mogwai sometime.
Tanks spoil me though. I'm too used to not dying in three breaths to play any other character anymore.

 

[@TKbreezy]

is rylais any good on leona?

at first I thought hell yea health and AP

but now that i kinda of think about it the only spell that kinda gets a boost from that is her Shield now being able to slow...seeing as everything else already slows and stuns

 

[Mogwai]

is rylais any good on leona?

at first I thought hell yea health and AP

but now that i kinda of think about it the only spell that kinda gets a boost from that is her Shield now being able to slow...seeing as everything else already slows and stuns

it's awful on her. So expensive for so little gain.

 

[DMG]

Rylai's would be good on her if she had low CD spells. She does not however, so you can't aim to chain slow someone.

You are 100% better off getting Frozen Mallet than Rylai's on her if you want to slow people.

 

[jpak]

@Anybody that's on a LoL team- How do you find a good team? I'm looking for one to join and get better with.

http://www.nationalesl.com/us/login/validate#/us/lol/forum/2537/23232/889632/
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=23
It will be much harder to find a good team now then it was may be a few months ago. You should just make a team out of swf, and improve that way. Doesn't matter if you don't have 2k rated players on your team, you can still do relatively well just don't expect instant victories.

lol, let me rephrase my question

Of all the roles the team has to offer, which one has the most influence on the game?

They all play important roles, the hardest roles to find good players in are support and jungler imo. People will say support is easy, or whatever. I disagree :]

 

[Jazriel]

Items for Leona? I don't have her yet but am wondering what people are doing for her. So far I've only seen one good Leona and she had boots1, philo, and hog, and was a huge pain in the *** to deal with. After the early game my team got ***** and it was a quick surrender, so I didn't get a glimpse at what she would've built late game. I'm guessing FoN + Omen + Veil + GA is what to aim for.

 

[Espy Rose]

Hey DMG/anyone, I saw a Rammus with Frozen Mallet the other day.
Thoughts? I wanna hear other's input.

 

[Mogwai]

Items for Leona? I don't have her yet but am wondering what people are doing for her. So far I've only seen one good Leona and she had boots1, philo, and hog, and was a huge pain in the *** to deal with. After the early game my team got ***** and it was a quick surrender, so I didn't get a glimpse at what she would've built late game. I'm guessing FoN + Omen + Veil + GA is what to aim for.

yea, philo + hog opening, but from there the standard is to get stuff with CDR, as her damage scales poorly, but her spells have very good base effects that you just wanna be able to cast more often. I personally like Reverie and Frozen Heart as the CDR items (going kindlegem -> Glacial then playing it by ear there), rounding out with FoN, Omen, and last slot can be kinda w/e, personally I think Triforce fits best because once you have capped CDR, you can proc it fairly often and it makes sure you have a slow to follow your stun lock combo + it makes your incidental damage less ignorable, but that's stupid late in the game anyway, so w/e.

 

[Abel1994]

i want that monkey champ!

 

[DMG]

Hey DMG/anyone, I saw a Rammus with Frozen Mallet the other day.
Thoughts? I wanna hear other's input.

Why the **** does he have it?

 

[-Vocal-]

Crittlesticks tbh.

Does it actually work or is it just for the wordplay?

 

[Espy Rose]

Why the **** does he have it?

That's exactly what I said, word for word.
No joke.

 

[jiovanni007]

Is anyone having trouble logging into the US server? It put me into the queue but then stalls at the login screen after the queue is over.

 

[Espy Rose]

I tried logging on for a quick game before work, and saw a 13 minute queue.

 

[Mogwai]

I had hotshot's rammus build a triforce on my team one game -_-. high elo so

 

[Zolga Owns]

Oh. League is down. Again.

 

[straight8]

a good way to carry low elo is play a strong early ganking jungler

xin zhao, trundle, gangplank are all good examples of this.

You have influence over multiple lanes while playing a bruiser that will scale well into late game
Also you can gank at that crucial times right before all the lanes have shopped, and right after you have just gotten boots.

 

[UTDZac]

a good way to carry low elo is play a strong early ganking jungler

xin zhao, trundle, gangplank are all good examples of this.

You forgot LEE FLIPPIN SIN!!!1

 

[Mogwai]

if you can get gangplank, just go 20-0 in lane by right clicking on your opponent (and their jungler when they come to gank, lol, thx for double kill IDIOT!) and carry like that. Character is so stupid, gawsh.

 

[straight8]

If you can hit a stupidly tricky skill shot while blind then lee sin 2 good.
Also gangplank much better in jungle than lane. saintvicous also confirms this, though hes just a jungler so how would he know?

GP can still get outlaned by stupid top lane gay champions, but who outjungles him right now? Maybe one champion (overall jungle ability).

Also I won a ranked game with jpak and the servers crashed. I'm not surprised...

 

[fkacyan]

I know, I like her passive a lot. But I think the trade off for her damage (it is a bit higher under ideal circumstances than Blitz/Ali) vs. the extra utility of repositioning skills ends up favoring Blitz/Ali early in the game in practice.

I'm not so sure I agree with this, but you're the guy who spends time streaming this while I play 2-3 games a night tops.

 

[Virgilijus]

if you can get gangplank, just go 20-0 in lane by right clicking on your opponent (and their jungler when they come to gank, lol, thx for double kill IDIOT!) and carry like that. Character is so stupid, gawsh.

Poor atom1c and his vlad

 

[Mogwai]

If you can hit a stupidly tricky skill shot while blind then lee sin 2 good.
Also gangplank much better in jungle than lane. saintvicous also confirms this, though hes just a jungler so how would he know?

GP can still get outlaned by stupid top lane gay champions, but who outjungles him right now? Maybe one champion (overall jungle ability).

Also I won a ranked game with jpak and the servers crashed. I'm not surprised...

he's banned so frequently that I don't feel comfortable saying where he lies in terms of jungling and laning, he's just all around very very stupid. Who do you think beats him top btw? I personally think GP ***** all the hard top lane matchups by rushing EC (since the only tough ones are the high sustain ones) and speccing 0/21/9 (no idea why anyone feels the need to go 21 offensive on him in lane, or speccing non-tanky runes for that matter). I've never been outlaned as GP since the slow was added, but I've always found his jungle a bit fragile pre-wriggles (sorta like Jarman's jungle).

 

[Abel1994]

opplanks sucks

 

[Virgilijus]

That is a great rebuttal, Abel.

 

[JTB]

Is there anyone that frequently streams rumble on solomid or clg?

 

[straight8]

Before you get ec or philo though, you have mana problems (and even after you get them).
I've never lost a top lane as him personally, but i would have lose if yoricks just played more gay. Getting sv and tear and just spamming e forever is going to really hurt you and make you lose creeps

http://rog.clgaming.net/blogs/clgaming/2474-the-deal-with-gangplank

 

[Abel1994]

I hate sucking with a champ.

Bought trundle and finally learned how to jungle :D its so freakin fun! I even learned that when you just start jungling theirs 5 gay people who gank you out of no were :D


I wana main udyr but sadly dont know how the fk to use this guy. Do I need pheonix stance or tiger because i herre tiger is under powered but it gives insane attack speed >.>