Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[Abbey Street]

Tbh if you're going to play Twisted Fate jungle then why not go the full Green Mile and go Blitzcrank jungle or Annie jungle? There are so many things you waste by going Twisted Fate jungle when there are so many junglers who have a similar utility and offer more in being a tanky engage against the enemy team.

I derped, I meant Twisted Fate as a laner assisting in a jungle gank.

Though I have seen a fair amount of TF jungle since that Unicorns of Love team smashed TSM with it at IEM. Some good, some bad.

 

[Dre89]

Was going to make a Leona main joke, but this would insult them because there's just too many wrong statements in here.

Don't see how you can deny that support is easier than ADC. That was the main point I was making.

There's a reason why pro teams will use non-support mains as there support. Support and Jungle are the only two roles where this happens. People like St.Vicious, Zuna and Altec played support despite not being support mains, but none of them would ever be put mid. St.Vicious would never go ADC either. Those roles just require too much mechanical skill to put someone there who doesn't main it a high level. There's also a reason why junglers and supports are often the main shotcallers and are the ones who time everything, because they otherwise have less stuff to focus on during the laning phase.

You're free to think I'm wrong, but what I'm saying pretty much lines up with pro-play mentality.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Don't see how you can deny that support is easier than ADC. That was the main point I was making. There's a reason why pro teams will use non-support mains as there support. Support and Jungle are the only two roles where this happens. People like St.Vicious, Zuna and Altec played support despite not being support mains, but none of them would ever be put mid. St.Vicious would never go ADC either. Those roles just require too much mechanical skill to put someone there who doesn't main it a high level. There's also a reason why junglers and supports are often the main shotcallers and are the ones who time everything, because they otherwise have less stuff to focus on during the laning phase. You're free to think I'm wrong, but what I'm saying pretty much lines up with pro-play mentality.

I have no idea why you're bringing up pro teams, however supports have been credited to having the 'play making' role of the game in professional League since MadLife entered the scene and knew crazy stuff like enemy cooldown timers and was the dominant voice in the bot lane because he dictated the conditions of the game. MadLife isn't nearly as good currently as he used to be when he hit his peak, but you still hear about exceptional supports with great play in NA LCS like Lustboy.

Moving away from professional LCS since that is hardly relevant to either of us, I think support is the most demanding role of the game for Solo-Q because you have a couple of minutes to try to guess if you have good synergy with your ADC or can gauge how experienced they are at playing and minimizing risk if you don't have good cohesion or if your ADC is really into engaging in risky confrontations.

Thresh is the best support in Solo-Q for this very reason. He has a loaded kit. If your ADC doesn't understand that he's pushing his wave too far into unwarded and dangerous territory, you have the lantern to draw them back. If your ADC is just 1 v. 1'ing their ADC you can also throw out the lantern to give them a passive boost. You have a hard engage and you can also use the lantern to set up a team play. Your ultimate is a zoning tool. Everything about Thresh is created to fix everything that is wrong with your ADC. However other supports need to address all these points with their ADC. Some supports like Leona can only go "all-in" and your peel for your ADC is literally you going all-in on one target.

How can you say that supports have it easy when you have Vayne being one of the most common picks in Solo-Q which is literally like giving the entire team the middle finger and you're the one who has to take care of the baby until she is able to build four items. The problem with Solo-Q mentality is that if you die, it is your fault. So whenever Vayne gets low on health and the trade looks bad but you can pick up a double kill on her single death, she's going to condemn the target away from her just to save herself and not think about the bigger picture. Ezreal ADC? Tristana ADC?

"I'm going to go in but if things look bad I'm using my escape to get out."​

They literally hit one auto and then they Arcane Shift out of there and if you're a Leona you just went all in and are getting gang banged simply because their jungler entered the edge of your screen. However, since your ADC sprinted away faster than Lucian you get all the CC and **** damage while your ADC stands by tower with full health and can't do jack **** anyway in a 1 v. 3 yet reminds you that you died because it was a bad engage.

Did you use your Mikael's at the right time? How about your Locket? What about Talisman or Righteous Glory? Not to mention landing your abilities at the right time in order to set up an engage. An ADC's role in a fight is to often follow up on the play made by a support. However, if the support isn't able to set up an engage situation then the ADC cannot fulfill their role optimally. The only reason why supports don't seem to have that much requirements in Solo-Q is because there is no expectation for someone else to actually support for you in Solo-Q which is why it seems like support has low level responsibilities.

It's the other way around. Good ADCs can play support because support is a much easier role, and they know all the botlane matchups. Being good at support doesn't equate to being good at ADC because supports don't learn how to position and trade whilst having to CS. They don't have to learn how to manage their time between farming and grouping for fights/objectives. They don't have to learn how to kite, or position themselves to put out lots of damage whilst being focused. The only aspect of supporting that's harder than ADC is the vision control, but that's only because the ADC has the lowest vision burden in the game, due to the support doing most of it for them.

Tbh the ADC's I've played with don't know bot lane match ups or don't give a **** about minimizing risk in a bad matchup. I've seen ADC's rush the same items like Infinity Edge or Blade of the Ruined King against a Sona or an Annie and their support is building Morello's or Athene's or some other item that is not Mikael's. And when it hits six the ADC gets cheesed by the ultimate and ultimately ends up dying and at the end of the game I never see a null-magic mantle anywhere in that inventory.

I agree with you that there are supports that don't know how to position or properly trade. Those are the ones that watch you die and offer you no peel when you get targeted. Time management? Since when is this ever a factor in the game aside from knowing above creep waves, camps, and dragon timers which every single member of the team should know or keep in mind. Grouping for fights/objectives, farming, kiting, and positioning to not take damage are all secondary factors you think for a support? There's a reason why your mains are Wukong and Zed, it's because you don't play support.

Funny thing is that ADC's benefit the most from having vision versus an ADC that has incomplete vision in a team fight. Factoring in that they are ranged marksmen means that being able to target or having first priority of target is significant in any trade. And if you think that a bad support is going to give you adequate vision and not burn all their wards on stupidly warding tri-bush or some other areas that are on the opposite side of the map as all the activities that are frequently occurring then you are naive. I have never felt as an ADC that the vision given by my support was adequate much less useful, sometimes I even question if they even used it over the course of getting new stacks from the item shop.

 

[Dre89]

I have no idea why you're bringing up pro teams, however supports have been credited to having the 'play making' role of the game in professional League since MadLife entered the scene and knew crazy stuff like enemy cooldown timers and was the dominant voice in the bot lane because he dictated the conditions of the game. MadLife isn't nearly as good currently as he used to be when he hit his peak, but you still hear about exceptional supports with great play in NA LCS like Lustboy.

Moving away from professional LCS since that is hardly relevant to either of us, I think support is the most demanding role of the game for Solo-Q because you have a couple of minutes to try to guess if you have good synergy with your ADC or can gauge how experienced they are at playing and minimizing risk if you don't have good cohesion or if your ADC is really into engaging in risky confrontations.

Thresh is the best support in Solo-Q for this very reason. He has a loaded kit. If your ADC doesn't understand that he's pushing his wave too far into unwarded and dangerous territory, you have the lantern to draw them back. If your ADC is just 1 v. 1'ing their ADC you can also throw out the lantern to give them a passive boost. You have a hard engage and you can also use the lantern to set up a team play. Your ultimate is a zoning tool. Everything about Thresh is created to fix everything that is wrong with your ADC. However other supports need to address all these points with their ADC. Some supports like Leona can only go "all-in" and your peel for your ADC is literally you going all-in on one target.

How can you say that supports have it easy when you have Vayne being one of the most common picks in Solo-Q which is literally like giving the entire team the middle finger and you're the one who has to take care of the baby until she is able to build four items. The problem with Solo-Q mentality is that if you die, it is your fault. So whenever Vayne gets low on health and the trade looks bad but you can pick up a double kill on her single death, she's going to condemn the target away from her just to save herself and not think about the bigger picture. Ezreal ADC? Tristana ADC?

"I'm going to go in but if things look bad I'm using my escape to get out."​

They literally hit one auto and then they Arcane Shift out of there and if you're a Leona you just went all in and are getting gang banged simply because their jungler entered the edge of your screen. However, since your ADC sprinted away faster than Lucian you get all the CC and **** damage while your ADC stands by tower with full health and can't do jack **** anyway in a 1 v. 3 yet reminds you that you died because it was a bad engage.

Did you use your Mikael's at the right time? How about your Locket? What about Talisman or Righteous Glory? Not to mention landing your abilities at the right time in order to set up an engage. An ADC's role in a fight is to often follow up on the play made by a support. However, if the support isn't able to set up an engage situation then the ADC cannot fulfill their role optimally. The only reason why supports don't seem to have that much requirements in Solo-Q is because there is no expectation for someone else to actually support for you in Solo-Q which is why it seems like support has low level responsibilities.



Tbh the ADC's I've played with don't know bot lane match ups or don't give a **** about minimizing risk in a bad matchup. I've seen ADC's rush the same items like Infinity Edge or Blade of the Ruined King against a Sona or an Annie and their support is building Morello's or Athene's or some other item that is not Mikael's. And when it hits six the ADC gets cheesed by the ultimate and ultimately ends up dying and at the end of the game I never see a null-magic mantle anywhere in that inventory.

I agree with you that there are supports that don't know how to position or properly trade. Those are the ones that watch you die and offer you no peel when you get targeted. Time management? Since when is this ever a factor in the game aside from knowing above creep waves, camps, and dragon timers which every single member of the team should know or keep in mind. Grouping for fights/objectives, farming, kiting, and positioning to not take damage are all secondary factors you think for a support? There's a reason why your mains are Wukong and Zed, it's because you don't play support.

Funny thing is that ADC's benefit the most from having vision versus an ADC that has incomplete vision in a team fight. Factoring in that they are ranged marksmen means that being able to target or having first priority of target is significant in any trade. And if you think that a bad support is going to give you adequate vision and not burn all their wards on stupidly warding tri-bush or some other areas that are on the opposite side of the map as all the activities that are frequently occurring then you are naive. I have never felt as an ADC that the vision given by my support was adequate much less useful, sometimes I even question if they even used it over the course of getting new stacks from the item shop.

No one said supporting is easy, and there is definitely a lot of skill to it. But if you think it's comparable in difficulty to mid or adc, I have to question if you've played those roles against high level players. Do you mind me asking what elo you play at? Or at least the highest elo you've played mid or adc at. I don't like pulling the elo card, but in my experience lower elo players tend to think jg and supp are the hardest roles, until they play a carry role against higher elo players.

It might seem odd that a Bronze-Silver is pulling the elo card, but I've played ranked 5s against NA Diamond teams, and I play with a Challenger level mid-laner all the time, so I've experinced a lot of high elo play.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

No one said supporting is easy, and there is definitely a lot of skill to it. But if you think it's comparable in difficulty to mid or adc, I have to question if you've played those roles against high level players. Do you mind me asking what elo you play at? Or at least the highest elo you've played mid or adc at. I don't like pulling the elo card, but in my experience lower elo players tend to think jg and supp are the hardest roles, until they play a carry role against higher elo players. It might seem odd that a Bronze-Silver is pulling the elo card, but I've played ranked 5s against NA Diamond teams, and I play with a Challenger level mid-laner all the time, so I've experinced a lot of high elo play.

And yet you can't carry out of Bronze III.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I think the one thing that annoys me the most right now is that Dre always pulls out the "I played ranked 5s against diamond teams, and played with X level player on my team."
Everyone is literally bad at this game, even pros.

 

[Dre89]

You didn't answer my question Acrostic, What elo do you play at?

And yet you can't carry out of Bronze III.

I have though when I played my 'climbing' champs, instead of experimenting with champs/trying to learn Zed. The reason why I decided to get Silver on my smurf was so I could play at an elo where Zed isn't banned as much.

And I never said I was a high elo player, I just said I've experienced a lot of high elo play.

That's the point. You can play the non-carry roles in high elo and do fine without having to be a good player. I've done it tons of times. But it's a completely different story whn you play mid or adc

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I have a Silver V account and a Bronze IV-V account I share with someone else.

When I play ranked (which is no longer that often) I don't feel like there is any difference between the two because the same concepts apply aside from silver players having better teamwork, are better at turtling when they are behind in the game, respect giving the enemy team objectives instead of adding on to them, and are open to criticism. Also I stopped playing in Solo-Q because it seemed like I keep running into duos.

I think the one thing that annoys me the most right now is that Dre always pulls out the "I played ranked 5s against diamond teams, and played with X level player on my team." Everyone is literally bad at this game, even pros.

He doesn't annoy me anymore. It's just sad that he stresses he was high silver when he duo'd with his gold elo relative and that his reason for not being able to carry out of bronze this season is completely due to his teammates. There is no huge difference between bronze and silver, in fact I view them as being the same since I started on silver in both accounts with 3-7 and 4-6 placement settings in fourth and fifth season. I don't know why people make such a big deal to distinguish themselves between the two.

 

[Sinister Slush]

There's no huge difference from bronze-low Diamond, just people getting better cs skills and objective taking, otherwise same problems where games can go longer than it should go.
Plat was probably the most hellish time I had back in S3, even Silver wasn't a big deal.

 

[Dre89]

I have a Silver V account and a Bronze IV-V account I share with someone else.

When I play ranked (which is no longer that often) I don't feel like there is any difference between the two because the same concepts apply aside from silver players having better teamwork, are better at turtling when they are behind in the game, respect giving the enemy team objectives instead of adding on to them, and are open to criticism. Also I stopped playing in Solo-Q because it seemed like I keep running into duos.



He doesn't annoy me anymore. It's just sad that he stresses he was high silver when he duo'd with his gold elo relative and that his reason for not being able to carry out of bronze this season is completely due to his teammates. There is no huge difference between bronze and silver, in fact I view them as being the same since I started on silver in both accounts with 3-7 and 4-6 placement settings in fourth and fifth season. I don't know why people make such a big deal to distinguish themselves between the two.

Mid-Bronze to Gold is basically the same in terms of mechanics. Silver and Gold are just a bit better tactically. In Bronze if you get mid inhib, they'll just all march down mid again instead of trying to get second inhib. I find Silver and Gold easier to climb in because you can still win your lane every game, but your teammates will capitalise on your lead better.

I was talking about Plat-Challenger level players. I used to think supp and jg were the hardest roles until I started playing people at that level in mid lane.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Back when I was placed in bronze 4 in season 2, I got out in 19 games going 17-2 and even skipped a tier (went from Bronze 3 to Bronze 1 I believe). Carrying in Bronze is hella easy man, you just gotta be the one pinging what to do and ****.

 

[Dre89]

Back when I was placed in bronze 4 in season 2, I got out in 19 games going 17-2 and even skipped a tier (went from Bronze 3 to Bronze 1 I believe). Carrying in Bronze is hella easy man, you just gotta be the one pinging what to do and ****.

I remember someone saying Bronze nowadays was like S1-2 Gold. I didn't play then so I dunno.

It's not really a good analogy though because the standard was way lower back then, and we don't know what kind of teams you were getting.

Luck fluctuates a lot. My luck on the Silver account has been fine. Most of my losses come from either my team not listening or me failing to carry, rather than afks or hard feeders.

 

[KRDsonic]

I played with a platinum a lot when I first started. He'd go support and I'd go adc. I barely knew what I was doing, but he would carry me through laning phase. I guess adc must be easier than support because I can get carried by a platinum support.

 

[Player-3]

support dictates the laning phase, adc basically just has to know enough to follow up with the supports decisions


at least thats how it used to be, not sure if still the same

 

[teluoborg]

Yes it is. All you have to do as adc is keep a good creep score and follow up on your support's actions.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Tbh the ADC's I've played with don't know bot lane match ups or don't give a **** about minimizing risk in a bad matchup. I've seen ADC's rush the same items like Infinity Edge or Blade of the Ruined King against a Sona or an Annie and their support is building Morello's or Athene's or some other item that is not Mikael's. And when it hits six the ADC gets cheesed by the ultimate and ultimately ends up dying and at the end of the game I never see a null-magic mantle anywhere in that inventory.

Late but I wanted to point this out, the tank meta really makes ADC's irrelevant. They need to quite honestly focus solely on their big items and crit chance if they wanna be useful at all. Behind or ahead, they cannot be going defense items for a 2nd or even 3rd item. hell even 6th item they prolly have to go another PD or a mercurial at best. They need IE and Shiv/PD right away (mostly shiv cause short ranged mid laners these days and need wave clear of some kind)
This meta is really hard on ad's and it shows by them buffing the bork item active range again and giving perma slow on ashe (granted it's slow early on and still no escapes, but it's a thing) but I guess they ARE nerfing Jinx, even though that's more of her snowball when she does get level 5 Q and 3 full items before 25 minutes is nasty.

Even if I see the enemy ap sona with a sheen or athene's. Having a null magic mantle isn't gonna stop her cc/burst. It'll still happen to me regardless, would be better to have an IE/Shiv to return that damage back to her or even more if I get that hot crit.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah if you're mid or adc you have to get offensive items first otherwise you're useless. There's no point itemising to not die if you don't do anything in fights anyway.

The only defensive items I go for early if I'm behind are items that give offensive stats too, like seeker's or hex

 

[teluoborg]

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/05/518-pbe-update.html
Ok I'm legit hyped about the masteries changes. Bandit mastery is now actually interesting for melee support, the exp one looks really strong too. Andd free chalice bby I can smell the 15/0/15 mid laners from here.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The EXP one is that 2 point mastery right?
Depending how the tree looks once everything is swapped, I don't think that mastery is still not worth throwing two points into when there's much better ones to put 2 into around that area.
Even then, if you're bard. You get more EXP roaming off chimes than you would standing still next to your ad for 10 seconds.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Late but I wanted to point this out, the tank meta really makes ADC's irrelevant. They need to quite honestly focus solely on their big items and crit chance if they wanna be useful at all. Behind or ahead, they cannot be going defense items for a 2nd or even 3rd item. hell even 6th item they prolly have to go another PD or a mercurial at best. They need IE and Shiv/PD right away (mostly shiv cause short ranged mid laners these days and need wave clear of some kind) This meta is really hard on ad's and it shows by them buffing the bork item active range again and giving perma slow on ashe (granted it's slow early on and still no escapes, but it's a thing) but I guess they ARE nerfing Jinx, even though that's more of her snowball when she does get level 5 Q and 3 full items before 25 minutes is nasty. Even if I see the enemy ap sona with a sheen or athene's. Having a null magic mantle isn't gonna stop her cc/burst. It'll still happen to me regardless, would be better to have an IE/Shiv to return that damage back to her or even more if I get that hot crit.

I've always felt like I make the least amount of impact in any given game in the ADC role. I guess the Cinderhulk meta is the reason why people are pulling out the Vayne due to her true damage and synergy with Blade of the Ruined King for %HP shred based damage. However Cinderhulk champoins still aren't the bane of my ADC existence. I usually hate the bruiser gapclosers like Riven that come with the spell shield and jump all over my face and I know that I'm only getting a slow or a stun from my support before they also bail out in the opposite direction. I think that the reworked Ashe also works in the tank meta presuming that Black Cleaver is meta on her as max Q stacks will apply all armor debuffs on the first hit.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Yeah if you're mid or adc you have to get offensive items first otherwise you're useless. There's no point itemising to not die if you don't do anything in fights anyway. The only defensive items I go for early if I'm behind are items that give offensive stats too, like seeker's or hex

I think that staying alive is good for the team even if it means that you lose out on doing tons of damage for the sake that staying dead is good for the enemy team due to you netting their team gold and not being able to pressure the map. I'm not advocating that building something like frozen heart or thornmail are good ideas, however if you are a threat in the game and you are being exclusively targeted by someone like a Fizz or a Master Yi in a team fight or you sense that your lane partner can't win the matchups against the opponents because they are the first one out, then you need to at least build a ninja tabi's or a GA because you are helping the team by drawing aggro and attention. If you don't die in the process then all the better.

Going defensive is contextual. If I died to a Sona ult in engages two times, I'm not going to go in with more A.D. when the issue is clearly that I don't have enough resistance to deal with the damage through her ultimate or her harass, I don't have the necessary kiting ability to dodge said ultimate, or I don't have a team that can offer me sufficient peel to go in after the ultimate has been put down. I don't see the point in attempting to outscale the problem in one dimension when she has a lead in that direction and there is a problem in how I am currently itemizing to deal with the problem. This is likely why I'm bad as a lot of one dimensional carries that don't have utility abilities since I build defensive so I can go HAM and take some shots when my team isn't tanking them for me.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The problem with vayne (and similar to twitch) is that they need to do a certain amount of autos before they can do massive damage, and their best first rushed item to get is bork, which is only a measly 25 AD despite the health % being there it's still not much and reason they need to go bork over IE or BT is because they need the attack speed to be relevant. The Lucky crit from IE isn't enough to eat through their health AND armor, while BT is just survivability but that's almost never built on those two anyways anymore since the 100 ad nerf.

Why choose those two (with crappy lane phase as well) where I need to auto 2-5 times to do a lot of damage in teamfights or in lane when I can go lucian and press Q to do the same amount of damage not counting the autos yet. And I still have W E to use for more damage/double autos.
Or Kalista where infinite stacked expunge that does more simply cause she can go past 6 and rend for 2k health with just hurricane/vamp scepter.
Sivir shorter range but she can at least go the IE path boomerang blade hurts like a ***** and auto reset with spell shield + her speed up ult.

BC isn't meta on Ashe cause it's a good 3k gold spent for 40 ad and 20 cdr when she eats mana up from volley ult and ranger's focus (granted her new Q cd is large)
People have tried ghostblade on her but it didn't work out and LW became better choice still. So everyone just goes the ol S2 build path IE BT LW greaves banshees but difference being Shiv more than half the time over PD.


As for cinderhulk stuff, while the item itself is a problem. The other problem is they're all huge tanky people that does massive amounts of % damage along with their infinite amount of CC + the cinderhulk sunfire cape (gragas sej reksai true damage etc.)
They could honestly just have frozen heart and cinderhulk and most likely be able to 1v1 a 4 item ad carry unless they're kalista and sej grag or reksai missed their cc on her. Then top laners like gnar or maokai can still **** on ad carries 1v1 as well with full tank cause they have infinite cc or healing of some way (gnar turning to mega gnar kinda healing himself ala lulu ult in a way)

 

[Dre89]

I don't buy defensive items when I'm behind. I buy defensive items to stay ahead or maintain the status quo by itemizing against a given threat. I think that staying alive is good for the team even if it means that you lose out on doing tons of damage for the sake that staying dead is good for the enemy team due to you netting their team gold and not being able to pressure the map. I'm not advocating that building something like frozen heart or thornmail are good ideas, however if you are a threat in the game and you are being exclusively targeted by someone like a Fizz or a Master Yi in a team fight or you sense that your lane partner can't win the matchups against the opponents because they are the first one out, then you need to at least build a ninja tabi's or a GA because you are helping the team by drawing aggro and attention. If you don't die in the process then all the better.

Unless you're talking about 5th-6th item buying a defensive item is sub-optimal when you're ahead because you can't snowball as hard. That's why teams prefer kills on a carry rather than a tank, because offensive items are more snowbally and impactful.

 

[Dre89]

I can't see how Bard is a good champion. To me, he's the worst support in the game, except for maybe Taric. He's really cool but his kit doesn't synergise at all. He's supposed to be a roaming support, but his ganks suck so the only reason to roam is for chimes. You also get punished for roaming because it makes chimes spawn further away from your lane. He has no pushing power, so he's dependent on his ADC to set up the lane so he can roam.

Meeps are supposed to be most of his lane presence, but pre6 you can't really roam anyway. By the time you get a decent amount of meeps the laning phase is over and your damage has been outscaled because you don't get a lot of AP or mpen. Magical Journey is a cool move but it's basically a variation of a Thresh lantern that is useful in much less situations. The ult also seems cool, but again it's just a variation of conventional support ult that is useful in much less situations. It's basically an AoE CC that CCs your own team, and you can't damage enemies whilst they're CCd. The range is meant to compensate (and that it works on structures an monsters) but a lot of the time you can't hit someone from close to max range if they have a dash up.

I think the only comp that he may justify selection in is a bruiser comp that just runs at teams Sivir-ult style

Edit- whoops double post

 

[Sinister Slush]

Watching aphromoo play nothing but bard makes me see him as a very good playmaker if you know how to actually play the champ and prolly up there as the best support in the game. He still will never be thresh of course, but he's sorta close.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

**** NA.

 

[Dre89]

Watching aphromoo play nothing but bard makes me see him as a very good playmaker if you know how to actually play the champ and prolly up there as the best support in the game. He still will never be thresh of course, but he's sorta close.

Could you link some vids please, really wanna see what he can do

 

[Sinister Slush]

Either watch his stream or just search aphromoo bard.
google
yt
reddit
there's lots of things you can search urself

 

[Dre89]

Either watch his stream or just search aphromoo bard.
google
yt
reddit
there's lots of things you can search urself

Yeah I just watched one game. I'm surprised he maxed E second over W. I suppose he used E a lot more than W, but foregoing stats for CDR seems sub-optimal to me. If you're not using E as soon as it's off CD you're not making use of that CDR.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Cause the cooldown doesn't get any lower leveling the heal, but the magical journey gets lower. I'd imagine escaping or possibly starting engages with magical journey > a heal that gives a tiny bit of movespeed that doesn't increase by level as well.
Also helps magical journey is 30 freaking mana holy ****

 

[Dre89]

Cause the cooldown doesn't get any lower leveling the heal, but the magical journey gets lower. I'd imagine escaping or possibly starting engages with magical journey > a heal that gives a tiny bit of movespeed that doesn't increase by level as well.
Also helps magical journey is 30 freaking mana holy ****

Come to think about it, you don't really drop shrines to charge outside of laning phase. After that you mostly just drop them on allies for the speedboost, and even if maxed second the instant heal is insignificant later on anyway. So maxing E second probably is better.

 

[teluoborg]

As for cinderhulk stuff, while the item itself is a problem. The other problem is they're all huge tanky people that does massive amounts of % damage along with their infinite amount of CC + the cinderhulk sunfire cape (gragas sej reksai true damage etc.)
They could honestly just have frozen heart and cinderhulk and most likely be able to 1v1 a 4 item ad carry unless they're kalista and sej grag or reksai missed their cc on her. Then top laners like gnar or maokai can still **** on ad carries 1v1 as well with full tank cause they have infinite cc or healing of some way (gnar turning to mega gnar kinda healing himself ala lulu ult in a way)

The problem with cinderhulk is that it's the only jungle item that gives both offensive and defensive stats, and it on top of that those stats scale with levels and items which means that its value increases as the game goes on. I wish every jungle item was made that way.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Warriors needs that 5 AD man, then it'll be broken.
Magus is like... only good for nid and maybe a cheese fizz/diana jungle.

 

[teluoborg]

Magus is more like "mages like morello ? Ok, have a jungle morello". There are so many things that could be done for AP junglers, magus is just a lazy item.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Rito is a lazy company.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Jungle Karthus tho.

I also get Magus on Jungle Rumble (obv using the coveted Rumble in the Jungle skin) but Im like the only person in the ****ing world who goes Jungle Rumble ever so yeah.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Well yah
there's a bunch of other cheese ap junglers to use but I see more fizz/diana cause people still kinda doing hybrid fizz and nashor's diana.

 

[Dre89]

How do you win as support when your sololanes are feeding

Help

 

[Sinister Slush]

You roam and help them by making plays.

The Support role is quite literally, even in solo queue, roam and make plays mid or top. I don't have any traditional supports, but I did toy with veigar before E nerf and still do with current veigar + been doing kennen cause I like him.
Maybe just those two and their cc makes me able to make plays easier but I imagine a thresh alistar nautilaus bard etc. can do just as well if they roam.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24089452#matches

 

[Espy Rose]

Magus is amazing.