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Golden Sun: The Lost Age (of) Mafia -Game Over! Indy Alex wins!

Scylla & Charybdis

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 6, 2013
Messages
200
Location
That which does not bend - breaks.
I want this info from you because it helps me read you.

I really like how you handled the reading of Washed D1, the thing that has been making me second guess this is the neighbor stuff and Rake CCing Ivan. I do think scum trying to find a cop CC is a possible scenario, likely, yes. But There are only four slots in this game I think would put BSL up to do it, and you're one of them.
'Course you liked it. It's me. That's like saying you like money and blowies.

While possible, you will simply have to come to your own conclusion. I myself pushed Rake last Night to ascertain why the hell BSL would claim his role - I believe he is town because through pressure and analysis I see it as the likely conclusion. You will, I suspect, take what I say here as a towntell and maintain a careful eye on me and nothing more.

This is a play I would make as scum. It would amuse me no end and is remarkably clever if I am scum. (Don't take this lauding as a tell). My play makes sense as either alignment thus far. You should, however, get townreads on Adum since he is somewhat plainer.

No it's not, it's very telling for connections, that back and forth was not staged and shows clear disconnection between the two slots. Emotional, ego clashing, reads.

That is fruitful to me for reads.
But what's the read?

Ryker and Laundry in PokeMafia were scum together with a newbie scum Panta/Panda? I forget the name. Ryker had a one shot poison which he fired at his own scummate to clear himself and let him and Laundry ride to endgame as neighbors.

It was a ballzy gambit and it paid off. I can see the same happening here, potentially. Especially from you, who has admitted to being a fan of two scum claiming neighbors with each other. You could be fitting this situation seeing a bus and using it to make an end game for your team, we don't know what Menardi does, no role is made clear when someone flips unless they claim it.

Other situation you are scum and playing Rake right now. This is the more probable situation if you are scum, but I am paranoid of the former which I do think is a legitimate possibility.

This is something I could see as possible, probable I am not sure of, this is why I am asking you for you reads on Gheb. I will support his lynch, but I want to make sure people have legit tells or not.
See above.

Also nope, you gotta earn that doc protect. This does ruin your thread power a bit, but you can easily earn that back, and most likely a doc protect if you can show your reasoning to be on IR and not tell it.
I have earned it. And, credit where credit is due, I earn it by default.

Important quote from late yesterday inc after this post.

Don't be obtuse.

I didn't ask him for guidance on IR, I asked him to get into his thought process more, if he thought of the opposing situation or not. If you thought that...why? Kantrip wouldn't be the first one I would ask for guidance on IR. We wasn't the one who started the wagon and he is not the one of the voters I would ask about that.

Kantrip didn't tell me anything on how IR would go about this if how he did it was right given the situation. Instead he gave me a vague statement with telling me IR is for sure scum. I'm looking for connections, how he answered was what I was looking for, not his guidance on if IR is scum or not.

He is a town lean, yes, but I play for long game and I play under the assumption town can be wrong.
You've utterly lost me here.
 

Furio Tigre

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Messages
184
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Nabe | BarDulL
This post bugs me.

I hate how he presented it with the wording.

FF read is restated for no reason

Ryker put at arms length with a widgy washy stance on inactives.

Tells everyone to give substance just prostrating fluff.

Wants more from Ridic with no new thing to press on him.

Fake post is fake.
(What have you thought of me aside from this single post i.e. D1?)
 

Furio Tigre

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Messages
184
Location
Nabe | BarDulL
gwar roar something about tigers

Aaaand RR just voted you. Ridic thinks you're an idiot, as do I. My money is on FF not backing you up. Remember that thread power you were fishing for? You've thrown the last of it away. Submit.

this is the post in which I've been muscled into submission to your whims

Vote: Inglorious *******


Furio is ... covering for IR
hi how are you doing
 

Inferno3044

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,755
Location
Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
@Furio - Why did you pick FF of all inactives? Your OMGUS vote on him just sounds awful. "Oh this guy is voting me. I think he's scum." Do you have a legitimate reason as to why FF might be scum?

IR is so grimy. He's so defensive on WL's small interactions with him and is trying really hard to justify it. He is asking for so much sympathy for it. He's trying to get sympathy by saying "what if it happened to you?" Honestly reminds me a little bit of Gheb in Disney Sing-a-Long mafia where he just kept going with self-pity on D1. It really just reeks of AtE bull****. He needs to die.

Vote: Inglorious *******
 

Scylla & Charybdis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
200
Location
That which does not bend - breaks.
Before reading this, please re-read my prior posts





RR said:
]I doubt it was a vig shot, but at the same time Kevin being killed by mafia is also odd.


I want Ryker dead because he is a dead weight right now and doesn't sit well with me now that Kevin was revealed town.[/quote]

First sentence, it's a very telling shot. Look at the scenario surrounding us. Kev (claimed miller) was shot because scum knew he wouldn't be protected - this in itself gives us an insight into the scum leaders mind, they're a safe, somewhat cautious and calculated player. So it wasn't Ryker that made this call (or me GG towntell). A ballsy scum shoots for me or FF, a noob scum shoots for me or Ryker. This scum shot claimed miller Kev. They wanted to be sure the shot went through and believed Kev enough of a threat (again shows experience) - also believing he'd be townread soon enough (more townpoints for Swiss GGGGGGG).

Who fits this personality trait? Ghebbycakes & FF.

ScumWashed - knowing who is not mafia - can make anybody look bad post-flip by meatriding somebody or making points that look like weak distancing in retrospect. Let's assume he did that to you - would you think it's justified if people tried to base a read on you on that? Do you think that such a read has a good chance of being accurate? Feel free to look at it though, all you'll find is Kantrip being whack as hell talking about me when I actually have nothing to do with it and have pushed and supported his lynch all Day. He could've randomly chosen anybody he wanted to for this and you would still not be able to actually work with it because the player you're trying to find something out about is not doing anything actively but is just passively being talked to in a manipulative manner.
Oh Gheb.

We've all been here before. I feel for you, I really do.

Hardly your fault (control your scumteam plz) but we both know you can't live after that. Word for word, I think I've had to use the same reasoning in the past - there's nothing else you can do in this situation.

He made the link, and it isn't bait. You're scum.

Regarding IR's scumreads, other than Kantrip we're interested in the Ridic push yesterDay. After rereading his slot IR feels affirmed that Ridic is town and will continue to give him our support and do what we can to make his lynch less likely than it was yesterDay. What's worth noting is that Orbo and PJB in particular are often the two players that scum tries to push mislynches on because their defensive outlook towards mafia makes it look like there might be a way to make them the scapegoats for something. This has happened at least in Toonami, Hardbody and kinda in BiM 2013. IR thinks it's very likely that this might've happened yesterDay and will look at people who actively pushed Ridic. Once JTB and Gheb have exchanged their reads on this matter we're likely going to push either Kantrip or a Ridic waggoner.
Bolded is important - looking for allies asap as he knows he's in trouble.

Underlined of note for very similar reasons, quickly extending olive branches to avoid a wagon.

Dafuq at bolded above then suggesting he would push Ridic as a lynch, assuming he meant Ryker which would be the choice I'd make in scum shoes.

I know what you mean but my main point remains untouched: he could've picked anybody he wanted to and it would still not be something to base a read on.
Assume my position in this for a moment: somebody tries to make it look like he's scumreading you, looking pretty fake in the process. Then it turns out that that player is a scumbag. Suddenly people start to think there's a connection between him and you and consider the possibility of you being scum together because distancing mightve been involved. Of course you know there's no connection at all because you've never actually had anything to do with it. All that happened is that somebody who happens to be scumpretended to read you as scum to make it look like you've been distancing yourself from him. Do you understand what it means to be in that position? What would your argument be if that were to happen to you?


Again very defensive, argues exactly the same case as above.



So late yesterDay is when Gheb starts slipping.

BSL's role could still be scum and Laundry's play just didn't make sense for a mini-cop. He won't be lynched toDay though and if he can give us something to work with via his abilities it might not be the worst idea to keep him around. Just remember that he is by no means clear. Guess it's time for us to read up and look at things from a different angle ...
Still don't see why Kantrip lynch gets so little support. He's not dumbtown. Don't see why everybody reads Rake as town either.


Here we see Gheb attempt to shove the lynch away from BSL. Quotes such as "He won't be lynched toDay though and if he can give us something to work with via his abilities it might not be the worst idea to keep him around" are designed to manipulate people. This is a post that isn't asking people to analyse themselves, but saying he won't be lynched. He even goes on to suggest BSL be kept around in the long term. We also see him discredit Rake & Kantrip, both often figures of hate.

Wow, I didn't realize that deadline was this close. If we're going down the inactivity road then we should lynch Tcat, Ryker or Inferno - in that order. Might just be my bias but I have a feeling that Ryker is more likely to step up his activity than the others and I still got town vibes from Inferno's catchup posts earlier. Tcat hasn't given us anything except a list of her reads, most of them not backed up or up to date.
If we're going down the inactivity road? This is the first mention of an inactive lynch and here he suggests Tcat, Ryker and Inferno. This is after discrediting Rake. Note how he doesn't suggest a direction, though. Just that one of them should probably die.

Votes Tcat with zero content here:

I think the ideal course of action would be to lynch Tcat and cop Ryker. Inferno wouldn't be a big loss so Vig can take care of him if he feels like it. BSL investigating Ryker can net us a valuable clear and give us confirmation whether BSL's claim is true or not. Assuming that Tcat and Inferno are dead by then we likely won't have to worry about inactive slots anymore, something that could have become a big problem later in the game with less players are alive. If all the slots involved in this "plan" are town they're going to be cause trouble anyway and I'd rather have that out of the way sooner than too late.
Vote Traveling Cat

@Ridic

Re: Rake - still reading him as null. No idea where people are getting pro-town vibes from.

Re: Flip - his role is confirmable via NA though. We just have to be aware that he can still be scum, even if he "correctly" cops a scumbag.



Is ridic the best wagon we have now that's not based on inactivity? To be completely fair, BSL actually had some decent points re: his hydra play and I think his line of questioning him is a lot more effective than Rake and Ryu being openly wishy-washy / undecided about it. Ridic's flip would probably tell us a lot about who was being real and genuine about lynching him and who wasn't. Not 100% sure whether that's worth more than getting rid of an inactive slot though.
@Kevin, frozen - your opinions on this? Right now it looks like we'll lynch either ridic or an inactive slot and I'd like to see your thought processes behind it in particular.



That's the only truly scummy statement he has made. Trying to gain credit for something that has clearly not been in his intention isn't cool. By that logic anybody who gains a lot attention - deliberately or not - must have been acting pro-town. That's clearly twisting facts in your favor.


(Bear in mind this is all in a short time frame IRL)

Now he suggests Ridic as a viable lynch. In a short timeframe Gheb has suggested we head towards 6 players. SIX. No direction, no cases, no force behind his words.

He is desperate to avoid BSL being lynched and is fishing for a hook and wagon from a townie.

After this, when Rake claims and BSL's fate is sealed, Gheb doesn't hesitate to jump back onto the wagon and ignore his prior stances. (see below)

Scum has no safeclaims? If that's the case nameclaiming might be an option toMorrow.
Unvote Vote BSL


Scum has no safeclaims? That's mighty fast there, Gheb.

If you wanted to surprise nameclaim, why bring it up now?

Also, why the **** would ANYONE suggest a nameclaim? DAFUQ IS THIS. Scumscumscumscumlookingforpr'spr'spr'splusknowshecangetawaywiththenameclaimsashehasasafelclaim

This, especially with the subject of nameclaiming toMorrow on the table we keep info to ourselves for now.
Ryu's argument doesn't convince IR. If we catch a scumbag by countering a namerclaim one time then it's worth to risk going for it again. Name possibly hinting at PRs is plausible but still somewhat speculative and even then I think it'll be a worthy trade. Definitely something to talk about before the flip is posted.


da fuqqqqqqqq

We didn't catch scum by name claiming, we caught scum because they're gambitting. Stop trying to shove town toward name claims.

So what actually happened? They name one of 8 members of the main party over the two games, with a keyword that had already been used, but isn't unique, and claim a clear investigative role. If they actually didn't have safeclaims, why not claim a minor character? They attempted to fish for a CC, gheb attempted to distract from the wagon by pushing half the other players in the game so he didn't recklessly get hammered while they were waiting for the CC.

Look at Rake's "you dun messed up" post. http://smashboards.com/threads/golden-sun-...ge-18#post-15467723

BSL LIKED IT!

*grabs screencap in case he unlikes it*

GG WP, scum was trying to force a counterclaim gambit, that's the only way the claim choices and IR's obvious attempt to distract before the counterclaim makes sense with being so gung-ho afterwards.


The immediate nameclaiming proposal afterwards? The didn't get a cop claim from Ivan, so they tried to salvage it with MORE PR fishing.

You know what else this makes sense with? Today he says this:

[...] also it's very doubtful that scum doesn't have name safeclaims. Further adding to this is the fact that the key word mind read had already been used in a way that should've been obvious to any halfway intelligent scumteam. So why the claim, what were they looking to accomplish?
Very interesting that you're leaving Rake out of this, especially re: bolded. If you think it's "very doubtful" that scum does not have name safeclaims then how does it make sense to you that Rake was still able to counterclaim correctly? What reason do you have to assume that scum *does* have fake nameclaims facing this fact?
both members of IR are expirienced players, particularly gheb. Why doesn't he consider the possibility that BSL's claim was an attempt to fish for a cop CC?

Ya, G f***ing G.

As I alluded to earlier - one of the biggest crippling factors, for any scum player, is that they can be outed by their scumbuddies. This is partly what has occurred with Gheb.
 

Scylla & Charybdis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
200
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That which does not bend - breaks.
1. Inferno3044 - Townlean / Inactive
2. WashedLaundry - SCUMFLIP
3. Red Ruy - Town
4. Scylla & Charybdis (adumbrodeus/Swiss hydra)
5. KevinM - TOWNFLIP
6. Anomandaris_Rake - Town
7. traveling cat - Inactive
8. Potassium - Town
9. Furio Tigre (BarDulL/Nabe) - Null
10. Inglorious ******* (JTB/Gheb_01) - Scum
11. Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) - Town
12. Rid****ulous (PJB/Orbo) - Town
13. Frozenflame751 - Null
 

Scylla & Charybdis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
200
Location
That which does not bend - breaks.
1. Inferno3044 - Scumlean / Inactive
2. WashedLaundry - SCUMFLIP
3. Red Ruy - Town
4. Scylla & Charybdis (adumbrodeus/Swiss hydra)
5. KevinM - TOWNFLIP
6. Anomandaris_Rake - Town
7. traveling cat - Inactive
8. Potassium - Town
9. Furio Tigre (BarDulL/Nabe) - Null
10. Inglorious ******* (JTB/Gheb_01) - Scum
11. Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) - Town
12. Rid****ulous (PJB/Orbo) - Town
13. Frozenflame751 - Null

Update
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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I'll allow your power to sway me Swiss. Defiantly can agree with how he handled BSL.

You certain Tigre is town, I have the opposite right now, even more so if IR flips scum.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Jul 11, 2010
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B.C. Canada
I'll allow your power to sway me Swiss. Defiantly can agree with how he handled BSL.

You certain Tigre is town, I have the opposite right now, even more so if IR flips scum.
With an IR scumflip, I personally find Furio being straight-up scum unlikely because of how IR has handled Furio.

Furio's right about a BSL + IR team not making a lot of sense. If his points don't convince you then please take a look at the whole "IR moving away from BSL" scenario and ask yourself if this kind of play doesn't make perfect sense for a townie: A player claims to have a Cop ability and two sources - Ryu and JTB who both know the flavor - confirm independently from each other that the ability, the name of the ability and the character name all add up with the flavor to a plausible claim. I think it's pretty fair to say that a townie who doesn't know BSL's alignment would've had all reasons to second-guess that lynch. It just so happened that Rake counterclaimed a few post after that but how were we supposed to know? The last thing you see happening in flavored games is a name getting counterclaimed. As it stands, that scenario makes perfect sense with townIR but makes none at all if you assume that BSL + IR are aligned.
This post in particular. IR is directly bringing to light some point of Furio's about a BSL + IR team not making a lot of sense. This is like saying "hey look Furio is helping me", and that kind of attention is not what you'd see a scum IR who is in trouble pull on a scummate when they are already down a member.
 

Inferno3044

Smash Master
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Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,755
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Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
S&C, I'd like an explanation. I read the game, see IR's play as scummy, explained why, and voted him.

RR, you hosted Disney Sing-A-Long mafia. Would you not agree with my statement about how Gheb's play in this resembles?
 

Scylla & Charybdis

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
200
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That which does not bend - breaks.
S&C, I'd like an explanation. I read the game, see IR's play as scummy, explained why, and voted him.

RR, you hosted Disney Sing-A-Long mafia. Would you not agree with my statement about how Gheb's play in this resembles?
Comes out of nowhere on the most popular wagon.

Talk to me, what are your other reads?

I'll allow your power to sway me Swiss. Defiantly can agree with how he handled BSL.

You certain Tigre is town, I have the opposite right now, even more so if IR flips scum.
No, check our most recent read list. Irked by his 180 on us, instead of reluctantly agreeing, but pretty sure the change is due to the other head taking point. Need to take another look at him.
 

rid****ulous

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 4, 2013
Messages
496
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PJB/Orbo
recent Furio posts look like Nabe to me.

We're down with the IR wagon

Vote: Inglorious *******

Case from S&C hammers it home pretty well. Personally, I got a scumtell based simply on the fact that people were calling Gheb scum, and he didn't call a single person a tool. TownGheb is not reasonable when you call him scum, he's angry and disruptive.
 

Inferno3044

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Dec 31, 2008
Messages
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Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
3. Red Ruy - Townlean. I have liked his play a lot and have seen nothing scummy from this slot.
4. Scylla & Charybdis (adumbrodeus/Swiss hydra) - Town. I see you as a very positive force within this game trying to drive town in the right direction.
6. Anomandaris_Rake - Town. I've personally liked the direction that Rake has been going since the start of the game.
7. traveling cat - Null. Needs to get in here.
8. Potassium - Town. He is generally pressured early game I see how he reacted as townKanty
9. Furio Tigre (BarDulL/Nabe) - Scumlean. Not sure if he's aligned with IR though. His typing has bothered me a lot and I don't like how he's all about going for inactives and went for FF as the day started. Terrible OMGUS
10. Inglorious ******* (JTB/Gheb_01) - Scum. Reasons were previously stated
11. Boatchouli (Ryker/Moth) - Null. Needs to get in here
12. Rid****ulous (PJB/Orbo) - Town. Noticed IR say something about protecting Rid**** today the best he can. I will have to look into this more depending on IR's flip.
13. Frozenflame751 - Null. Needs to get in here

 

rid****ulous

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 4, 2013
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PJB/Orbo
Inferno you already think that ir is scum, but say we might be scum if ir scum. What? Looms like a backdoor to me.
 

rid****ulous

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PJB/Orbo
Inferno you already think that ir is scum, but say we might be scum if ir scum. What? Looms like a backdoor to me.
to elaborate on this.

Inferno has already made clear, in thread, in front of god and everybody, that he thinks IR is scum. He wants to look at us if IR flips scum, but he gave us a Town read. Why? How come he isn't looking at us already? What's he waiting for?

It reads like he's just trying to get through toDay as safely as possible by bussing his mate, and setting himself up to try and push a mislynch on us toMorrow.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Well a big portion of the case on IR is his connection with Washed, and you're suggesting Inferno is bussing IR. This means all 3 of them are on a team.
You think there's a 4 scum faction?

Don't grill people by calling them scum. It motivates them to defend themselves rather than give the stuff we actually want from them and wastes their time. You could be doing much more productive things.
 

rid****ulous

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PJB/Orbo
You really think last-scum Inferno is trying to bus his mate and ride it out?
the correct answer to this is "maybe". It's not "omg that's so crazy unlikely that he'd do that!" because he's got little to lose. IR is likely gonna be the lynch, and Inferno trying to defend him, alone, would not save him. A bus at this point would be the best way to attempt to salvage some town points.

Is that what's going on? Again, the answer is "maybe". That's why we're calling Inferno out. We'll see what he has to say for himself.
 

Kantrip

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Clash in ideology I guess. I'd say you should wait until you have a confirmed scum flip from IR and take things one step at a time before you call out a player and make them answer for actions you think are scummy in the context of a scumflip you haven't even gotten yet.

Might just be me though.
 
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