Golden Sun: The Lost Age (of) Mafia -Game Over! Indy Alex wins!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why did Ryjer jump right at KevinM scum for that crumb...that's bugging me now that I am rethinking this. Even then why our gin right away.

 

[KevinM]

Throwing out information to see how it was processed by those who picked up on it, as well as the responses I've given at least 3-4 times before which is why I continue to profess that we are in fact going in circles.

 

[Swiss]

Riddik is bad.
WL is scum.
Kev still a scumlean.

@Swiss/adumb hydra: Is WashedLaundry changing me to town and now displaying doubt on that again a sign that he is looking from a townie perspective? I want to say it is, but what do you think?

He's obv scum. Pushes Kev too hard based on no new reasoning and with false intent. Would not rule out a bus.

Rake you've still forgotten to do something.

Kev crumbed Miller, not caring much (but not expecting) if some of the better players picked up on it. Kev wouldn't have cared if he got a guilty on him and would THEN claimed Miller. It's a standard move by any average scum player - crumb miller early on - very useful. His reaction, however, does read scum. If his true intent was to avoid the cop wasting an investigate on him, he would have claimed. I am somewhat curious to see his full claim.

DOES IT MAKE IT RIGHT?

Is one of the biggest tells in the game thus far.

"Does it make it right?"
An experienced townie i.e WL, wouldn't care so much if what Kev did was right per se, but if it was Townie. His though process is skewed, couple this with a brutal push onto Kev which attempts to do nothing other than discredit him, and we have a remarkably strong case on WL considering how early we are into the game.

More content will follow, but I have just got to work - I skimmed the thread on the train.

Skype later today (ETA 12 Hours) works for me btw, will get pw saved onto this comp asap, sorry Raz

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I agree a lot with the second Quote analysis.

I don't get the wording, "does it make it right", it looks less like he is trying to think if Kevin is scum, but rather if he did something bad.

It's doesn't look like he is trying to think if Kevin is scum.

 

[rid****ulous]

Throwing out information to see how it was processed by those who picked up on it, as well as the responses I've given at least 3-4 times before which is why I continue to profess that we are in fact going in circles.

I get that you were "trying to see how people reacted". But you just told Rake that ryker and swiss haven't reacted the way you were expecting. What were you expecting? What more would you have gained in that scenario?

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Riddik is bad.
WL is scum.
Kev still a scumlean.



He's obv scum. Pushes Kev too hard based on no new reasoning and with false intent. Would not rule out a bus.

Rake you've still forgotten to do something.

Kev crumbed Miller, not caring much (but not expecting) if some of the better players picked up on it. Kev wouldn't have cared if he got a guilty on him and would THEN claimed Miller. It's a standard move by any average scum player - crumb miller early on - very useful. His reaction, however, does read scum. If his true intent was to avoid the cop wasting an investigate on him, he would have claimed. I am somewhat curious to see his full claim.


Is one of the biggest tells in the game thus far.

"Does it make it right?"
An experienced townie i.e WL, wouldn't care so much if what Kev did was right per se, but if it was Townie. His though process is skewed, couple this with a brutal push onto Kev which attempts to do nothing other than discredit him, and we have a remarkably strong case on WL considering how early we are into the game.

More content will follow, but I have just got to work - I skimmed the thread on the train.

Skype later today (ETA 12 Hours) works for me btw, will get pw saved onto this comp asap, sorry Raz

Np got your back.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Here's the thing that really gets me about Kev, he's concerned about baddies wasting an investigation on him, but those are exactly the kind of people who aren't gonna pick up on the miller crumb, still waiting for a reason why he crumbed as opposed to outright claiming. I really don't like the slot at all.

WL is dirty.

Kantrip remains, incredibly stupid town.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Guys, can you all quit being godawful at this game? Like holy ****, look at the facts for once. There's a clear difference between saying things you don't like to hear because it hurts [aka what Kevin does] and saying things that are just scummy [aka what Laundry and Kantrip do].

Laundry and Kantrip have been exceedingly SCUMMY. No buts or ifs. They've been scummy as hell all game, end of story. And both of them push Kevin for extremely poor reasons. They are not only extremely suspicious individually but they also work perfectly well as a team - just look at how Laundry responds to Kantrip and tell me that it's not the whackest, most blatant bulll**** you've ever seen. Why does nobody spot this and instead gets hooked on Kevin crumbing miller [since when is that suspicious?] and calling out people who push him because of it [since when is that suspicious?] ... it's really beyond me. We lynch Kantrip toDay and we'll do it fast and if he flips scum we'll go hardbody on Laundry. Just ****ing read their interactions - it's already clearly established that they are suspects on their own. It makes way too much sense to be mere coincidence. I challenge all of you who think Kevin is the play toDay to read through any interaction between Kant and Washed from a scumbag's point of view and explain how it doesn't make perfect sense. Then you read through it again and explain to me how it makes sense for them to be town as well. Then we might talk about lynching Kevin over one of the other two slots. But definitely not right now. I honestly don't even care about your inevitably incoming comments about "tunneling" or "salt" or "patting Kevin's back", what's scummy is scummy and what's not scummy is not. That much should be obvious to anybody who can add one plus one - sometimes I wonder whether that's too much asked from most of you guys.

I'll be at a smashfest this weekend but might pop in sporadically until sunday. Hoping to see Kantrip lynched until then. No point in letting a fresh, juicy and legitimate lynch get watered down by yall being whack pussyfoots.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Gheb you need to justify Kantrip scum. Adum is resolute that he is town.

Produce content and err away from blather.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

Aight, I'm here for the moment.

Kantrip is really bad. Like, really, really bad. But his play is still scummy. I just am not completely convinced of his scumminess yet. I'm not playing the "let's find scummies before the game even starts" game, that's chibo-level horse****, but his actions in pregame are peculiar to say the least and fairly scummy.

That said, despite his weird inconsistencies in his actions, I do remember Kantplay being ****ty gambit guy from like a year ago so pulling a ****ty gambit and then panicking when it fails doesn't seem too out-of-character for him. It's not a pass for his play but it's definitely something to stop me from jumping straight on the lynch wagon.

Adumb's defense of it was horse****. "I've seen him do this as town all the time radarada he's badtown, ignore him" is bad and he should feel bad. Even if this is a dumb vs. scum case, he needs to flesh it out a lot more than he did and a few posts in pregame (I'mma keep stressing this guys, pregame means jack **** to me) are definitely not enough to make that call, not in a case like this. DumbA strikes again, I suppose.

I have no read on IR for it though. Typical Gheb is typical. Salt levels too strong with a strong dose of tunnel and he even cut the explanations for it. If that's not cookie cutter, I-haven't-changed-how-I-play-in-3-years Gheb, I don't know what is.

Vice versa, calls him scum and gives potential justification. empty content - classic careful scum.

Stresses pregame is unreliable which is dangerously incorrect. Has also attempted to hydra-split by insulting Adum's intelligence specifically (note he does this multiple times not just in this post).

:r

Are you gonna be active this game or do I expect you to put in very little input and then get killed N1 like always off of name recognition.

uh...

I really hate this post.

...content?

First, paragraph is legit.

Second paragraph is terrible and ruins the first paragraph because it removes all commitment to the read.

Third paragraph is hella legit. Adum probably has the single worst post in the game sans that miller crumb. However, I don't like the stress that pregame means nothing.

Fourth paragraph is dumb as ****. Shots at Gheb for no better reason than to empty chambers in his revolver.



I haven't had an issue with any of his other posts that I remember. This is the one that comes to mind when I think of WL. Overall, I don't like him, but at the moment, I would much rather kill Kev or kill Kantrip. If Kantrip flips scum, look at Laundry. If Kantrip flips town, look at Adum.

Oh, hello. Decent analysis.

Miss you <3

Paragraphs 2-3 are super wishy washy bull****. It's justification for a lynch without trying to be responsible for the lynch.

Paragraph 4 is just talking about meta without making a read, calling someone like Adum, dumb is just playing to the players you know think he is weak. I don't understand it, especially when you have him hydra-ing with a player considered good at the game. Also the pregame means jack**** seems like an odd thing to keep stressing. I'm gonna go read your posts in that after this.

Last paragraph also worthless fluff. Literally worthless.

Also decent.

I didn't want to have to ignore both of you, I really thought better of you this game Swiss.. thought you could be somebody.. thought you could be a contender. BUT you're a nobody.

Walk me through the though process here. You thought better of me this game, but I'm still a nobody. Your wording reflects you don't believe what you're saying, which is understandable, since you know me to be strong. I'm having issues seeing the real intent behind your wording. What were you really trying to accomplish here? Was it in reality spoken to me, or really directed for others to discredit me?

Meh only thing of note in WL pregame is that he jocks on Gheb's nuts for talking about Kantplay's backtracking on what he said. He also asked if Pregame is going to be worth reading this time, and then when RR gets called out by Kantplay tends to go nuts in RR's defense. I'm not sure what to make of that.. Could be null and he was honestly frustrated or could be a scum move where you try and play town champion and clear townies to get them in your pocket.

noteforlater

swiss is WL still scum(assuming you think this because of your vote) if kev flips scum?

As of this post timeline wise, I see links but nothing conclusive. If at this stage I had to guess a 2man scum team - yes.

Does your character ever limit your play?

No, mine does not.

But I've experimented for years, my guises over this period were tolerated because I made them amusing, fresh and interesting. I also made them effective. People tolerated, allowed and encouraged these because they were new. Yours is not new, not encouraged - I am considering halting you.

My question to you is, do you feel your (clearly forced persona) will affect your ability? I also question how it will improve you. Mine is a reflection of me. Yours is not - it's hollow - it's like Regal Cheese/Swiss (Halo Mafia), from my early days. I'd encourage anyone who wants to see town get outplayed to read that.

It's a good wagon?

Towntell

Gheb is overdoing it, everyone else is wrong but it's understandable. People are perfectly justified for seeing my pre-game shenanigans as scummy. I have no way to prove to them that my intentions are what I say they are, so I'm trying to focus on other things, like voting for Kevscum.

Grimy

Balance is a townlean. You can't fake a pure towntell.

So I caught that Kevin miller crumb in pregame as well and planned on going hard if he didn't claim in 3 posts. Then Drew walks in and does exactly what I was going to do.

vote: Kevin


I mean, ****, he even made it freaking obvious too. The odd caps in the post seemed like a dead giveaway to me, did anyone else notice it?

Irrelevant. Why post you caught the crumb?

Well done...

Indirect buddying also.

I've seen better attempts at getting out of cop guilties.

That wasn't his intent, though. Mudsling.

In fact, I think this is similar to something Swiss did in a recent game.

I doubt this.

I am pretty cocky aren't I

Rest assured you have little to be cocky about.

Scum: WL
Town: Ryker, Potassium, Rid

Kev null

 

[rid****ulous]

Rake wanted to see where you were at, and if you still had your rykers always scum rule.
Inferno scumreads when you get here.
Kev less scummy ok with the kantrip vote.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Ah, I see.

 

[rid****ulous]

Mhm.
Rr who's lynched if not kev laundry or kantrip.

 

[KevinM]

"Walk me through the though process here. You thought better of me this game, but I'm still a nobody. Your wording reflects you don't believe what you're saying, which is understandable, since you know me to be strong. I'm having issues seeing the real intent behind your wording. What were you really trying to accomplish here? Was it in reality spoken to me, or really directed for others to discredit me?"

As much as you want to make this thing a huge deal, I was merely quoting Marlon Brando to be funny since I was disappointed you were reading me incorrectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsNXd57Ppw

I guess people haven't seen the movie and thought I was actually calling you a nobody?

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

It's not that I want to make it a huge deal, it's that I was unable to discern any true intent from the post.

The fact you were quoting a 3rd party is why. They weren't your words, hence why it stuck out to me.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mhm.
Rr who's lynched if not kev laundry or kantrip.

Inferno the inactive.

I got no one outside of Laundry and Kantrip I want dead atm.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

trying to form a hydra atm

gimme a second

 

[Raziek]

Inferno3044 has been prodded.

 

[Inferno3044]

I'm only on page 6 but I want to put down some of my thoughts and questions now while they're still fresh.

Kevin, first I want to know why you crumbed miller. I feel like it was very unnecessary. Also do you plan on being helpful eventually? This might look different as I continue to read but "I thought you were better" along with other comments you've made don't make you look towny nor helpful.

Kanty, have you actually have any real reason to call RR scummy without mentioning pregame? If the answer is no, I recommend you either stop looking into RR or find actual reasoning towards him being scum.

I'm gonna catch up right now. I won't be on tonight or tomorrow and I don't have class on Friday so there's not much of a better time than now.

 

[Inferno3044]

Gheb is overdoing it, everyone else is wrong but it's understandable. People are perfectly justified for seeing my pre-game shenanigans as scummy. I have no way to prove to them that my intentions are what I say they are, so I'm trying to focus on other things, like voting for Kevscum.

If they're justified (which if not mistaken also would mean legitimate. Correct me if I'm wrong on this), then why did you do your pre-game shenanigans? There's no reason to say things that won't benefit town unless you're scum. I heavily dislike your interactions with RR. I don't see how him asking a question is any different than anyone else. At the end of the day, the question gets answered or you avoid it. Are you intentionally trying to act a bit scummy?

Just finished reading page 8. Ewww @ traveling cat's vote on KevM. That is such a salty vote. How is this not bring looked into to (inb4Kantrip)? This vote is a lot worse than Kanty's.

 

[Inferno3044]

Kantrip's post at the end of page 8 is also really ****ty. He's really trying to justify his play.

 

[Kantrip]

Kanty, have you actually have any real reason to call RR scummy without mentioning pregame? If the answer is no, I recommend you either stop looking into RR or find actual reasoning towards him being scum.

Are you even reading? I dropped Red Ryu after pre-game and haven't even been calling him scum.

 

[Kantrip]

God Inferno you're asking questions I have answered more than once too....

 

[Inferno3044]

As I said, I'm posting as I read to keep my ideas fresh. I see that some of my questions have been answered. At the end of page 9 atm and I see that some of my questions have been answered. I'm continuing to read.

 

[Kantrip]

Fantastic but that doesn't explain how you think I I have RR as scum. Could you tell me why you thought I want RR lynched, considering I haven't mentioned anything to that fact after the start of the game?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Ahhh.

This'll be fun.

Reading.

Whatever I may have forgot, I apologize.

 

[Inferno3044]

Kanty I'm fully caught up now. You talked about him a little bit when the game actually started and as I've read I noticed that you dropped it. My bad about that. With everything that you've posted I have a few questions for you that I don't think were answered. Are you intentionally playing scummy? Are you at least taking into account that you're playing scummy (or at least viewed as scummy)? If so, why have you not changed? I honestly don't think you're scum. I just think you're playing poorly.

@redik - Someone who I disliked as I was reading was traveling cat. If I'm not mistaken he made one post which was an extremely scummy vote onto a popular wagon (KevinM) because Kevin said something negative about him of some sort. Yeah Kanty's vote wasn't the nicest, but this one was awful. I also don't like WL. I see a lot of tunnel vision because KevinM simply got called out and Swiss's examination on him puts in a perspective.

I don't think KevM is scum. He placed a crumb, got called out, and things were blown out of proportion. He's been put into a bad situation and I think WL is trying to take advantage of it.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Like seriously, the more and more I read this whole miller crumb debate, I keep thinking to myself "Why am I not nearly as fired up about this as everyone else?"

Seriously, if you're a townie, sit down and think about it. If you're in the same position as me, the situation makes more sense.

Okay, kevin crumbed miller. He got called out. Maybe crumbing miller isn't optimal miller play. Maybe it is. I really don't care so much because the impact it actually has on the town this game is so small.

We have a lot of strong willed players at each other's throats over such a small thing. I thought at first that maybe I was just being lazy and not understanding what was really at stake because I missed the details. But then I re-read some more and nothing changed. Like, I just don't see this as an issue that should centralize our focus. It's dumb, small, and stupid.

I get fired up about stuff easily. I seriously can't even form a strong opinion on this if I tried. This makes me curious about why all the assailants on Kevin are getting so fired up. Either they've got a bone to pick with kevbro, or they're trying to stir the pot with greater intensity than what's necessary.

Unvote

On board with looking at Kant/WL n such fasho. We really need a Votecount though plz

 

[Kantrip]

Are you intentionally playing scummy?

No. Pre-game with RR was intentionally not serious but since I had both non-serious and "serious" stuff in the same post people took it seriously and I took flak for it. When trying to explain myself I got viewed as back-pedaling and people continued to not believe me when I said I was not serious in pre-game. Instead they took it as I was serious but now that I am getting pressure for it I'm trying to escape by saying I wasn't serious.
To answer your question though, no I am not trying to play scummy. In fact, I've been asking a lot of questions and trying to read people on top of dealing with everyone on my ***, it's just kind of hard when everyone expects my posts to explain myself when I want to move on. That's why I ignored some stuff, because I really didn't want to keep dealing with justifying my pre-game. But when a bunch of people I asked I figured I had to answer.

Are you at least taking into account that you're playing scummy (or at least viewed as scummy)? If so, why have you not changed?

I am taking into account that I am viewed as scummy. Honestly, after pre-game I don't think I've been playing scummy but people are scum-goggling my actions. For example, without my pre-game my random KevinM vote would have been more acceptable to people. But with my pre-game all they see is "lulz kantplay scum trying to jump onto next easiest wagon". So I think I have changed, and I am not playing scummy, but people are just tunneling on pre-game and using it to apply to all my otherwise completely fine actions.

 

[rid****ulous]

your vote on kevin was not perfectly fine.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

whoa whoa.

Seriously, if you're a townie, sit down and think about it. If you're in the same position as me, the situation makes more sense

Tell me im not the only one seeing this

 

[Kantrip]

your vote on kevin was not perfectly fine.

For an early D1 vote, yes it was. There was reasoning provided for him and I wanted to add to the pressure. I didn't have any fresh new points to add to the case against him but I liked it anyways so I wanted to add to the pressure. What the hell is wrong with this early D1?

 

[rid****ulous]

because you voted without having to provide reasoning. I get that there was already reasoning provided by others, but that's the problem. It was too easy for you, and you jumped on it as eager as can be.

You claim you were adding to the pressure. Ask yourself this, did you really think that vote was going to pressure kevin? For real? I don't think it was gonna. I don't think you think it was gonna.

 

[Kantrip]

I think you're dumb, so there's that.

You can hold me responsible for voting without having to provide reasoning when an actual lynch goes through, but at this point it's really stupid to be doing that. It's just shutting down my actions before they can even play out. What's the scum intent to what I did (assuming a lynch doesn't go through without me giving reasoning)?

Where the hell do you expect me to put my vote? That was the wagon I liked best.

 

[rid****ulous]

it wasn't "the wagon you liked best". It was "the only wagon besides yourself"

 

[rid****ulous]

My point is that you weren't really making attempts to question or read people. You were voting for the first available wagon that was not yourself, and doing it without providing reasoning.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Hmm.

Ridick's play is very calculated right now.

Like he's stepping through the motions on a argument already made / laid out somewhere else.

Not sure what about it makes me feel this way. This bars investigation

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

because you voted without having to provide reasoning. I get that there was already reasoning provided by others, but that's the problem. It was too easy for you, and you jumped on it as eager as can be.

You claim you were adding to the pressure. Ask yourself this, did you really think that vote was going to pressure kevin? For real? I don't think it was gonna. I don't think you think it was gonna.

Why do you think it wouldnt' pressure Kevmo ?

What about Kantrip's vote makes it different than the other people voting for Kevmo at the time ?

Wasn't your hydra even voting kevmo soon thereafter ?

I think you're dumb, so there's that.

You can hold me responsible for voting without having to provide reasoning when an actual lynch goes through, but at this point it's really stupid to be doing that. It's just shutting down my actions before they can even play out. What's the scum intent to what I did (assuming a lynch doesn't go through without me giving reasoning)?

Where the hell do you expect me to put my vote? That was the wagon I liked best.

Why did you choose a wagon , over anything else ? What made it more appealing than beginning something new ?

My point is that you weren't really making attempts to question or read people. You were voting for the first available wagon that was not yourself, and doing it without providing reasoning.

Explain in detail why you believe his actions where that of jumpy scared scum over opportunistic townie.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Vote FF.

Can't get by that word choice right now.

Re-reading to see if I mis-construed the context

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Either they've got a bone to pick with kevbro, or they're trying to stir the pot with greater intensity than what's necessary.

The second portion of this implies you think some of the people attacking Kevmo are scum.

Is that your belief ? Is it more than just Kantrip ?