Girls/Guys/Relationships

[Elysium]

Thats probably the best answer one can give.
I just think (or thought?) that everyones opinion on that subject would be different, but it's hard to argue with that one.

 

[Del Money]

Well here's a question for everyone. All the time when people come in here and ask for advice (preferably guys for this example) we tell them *insert advice here*. Part of that normally involves "being a man". As far as I'm concerned, "being a man" isn't a universal term and by that I mean that is someone might consider acting one way as being a man, while another considers something else as being a man.
I'm not sure everyone will understand this, cause it's kinda hard to explain the example, but the question is simple.
What do you consider as being a man? (Either relationship wise, or just in general)

"Being a man", eh? Tough question. I'm going to answer the relationship-wise part because the in-general part is too vague. In a relationship (a straight one anyways), there's a male and female contribution towards the overall foundation of the relationship. "Being a man" is a relationship implies that your positive masculine traits (interests, thoughts, emotions, etc.) are nurturing a specific part of the relationship that the female cannot nurture. "Being a man" is knowing your part in the relationship and being able to fulfill it...basically keeping whatever commitments you make towards the relationship.

Being a man is being YOUR man.
...at least that's what I think.

Awww....is that an offer? HAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

 

[joshisrad]

Except that doesn't tell you anything about what being a man means. That's circular. Being a man is not something specific to each person. And be yourself is never good advice.
(that was at whoever said being a man means being your own man)

If you feel like your buddies are walking all over you, set them straight. If you don't feel like you're getting your due, voice your opinion strongly.
Raise your voice if you have to. Keep it short and focused.
Take people aside and ***** them out. It's sexier to be respected and hated than disrespected and liked.
Take responsibility, don't "accept" it. The Jesuits have a saying: "be a man for others". Well, you can't be a man for others if you're not a man for your own sake first.
Be able to fly solo. You don't need a woman to complete you or for your buddies to hold your hand.
Establish competency in something, but you better be **** passionate about it. For me, this is music and singing. Did I start singing because I wanted to get laid? No. Did I do it to gain respect from others? No. But it does both. And you shouldn't learn something just to fulfill either section. I ****ing hate those talentless chodes who play guitar - very poorly - just to impress chicks.
Be good at your niche. Being good at your job or in school raises your confidence level and increases your self-value.
Intelligence.
Have standards.
Take control. Make decisions. Lead.
Never apologize for your desires. Speak unapologetically.
Never supplicate.
Have confident body language. And confidence in general.
Remain steadfast in whatever you believe - unless of course you find reason you agree with for change. And be righteous. Justice.
Help others.
Walk on the outside of the sidewalk(closer to cars) when with a lady and open doors for her.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.


What do you think it means to be a woman? (perhaps more importantly, what do you think is implied in asking this question?)

 

[Blackadder]

)
Take people aside and ***** them out. It's sexier to be respected and hated than disrespected and liked.

That just can't be good advice.
Why woul you want to push others aside, especialy if it's just to make yourself look tough?

I can't see that making any sense at all.
If people like you, huge chance that they respect you as well.

In the same vain, if someone utterly hates another, they're not going to go off and say how they respect them. That all made no sense to me.

But maybe that's just me?

 

[joshisrad]

p implies q = flawed reasoning
"that just CAN'T be true" does not mean anything.
All you provided for the justification of what makes sense to you were assumptions and if-then's. Now I'm curious to know what DOES make sense to you.
And dude, it doesn't sound like you understand respect at all. You don't have to tell people you respect someone to respect someone.

edit: okay, since helping people down the path of knowledge never seems to get anywhere, I'll just straight up give you the answers. but that means you will disagree with them, contrary to what would be the case if you had found them yourself.


"Why woul you want to push others aside, especialy if it's just to make yourself look tough?"

Push others aside? You're trying to take what I said and make it sound violent and abrasive. It's not to make yourself look tough, either, and the charge on you is the same(warp what I said).

"If people like you, huge chance that they respect you as well."

No. Your friend is a total clown and smokes weed every day. Has no job, dropped school, isn't good at anything, etc etc, does nothing that you can respect. Still your friend. No respect.
Obviously this is the most dramatic case and I brought it up so you don't try little counter arguments like "oh what if he does something I do respect even though he does things i highly disrespect like smoking weed every day"
In fact, I have a friend who is a nice guy. He's funny as hell. But he smokes and drinks far too often and isn't going anywhere, is easily frustrated by simple things, and in addition to other things I can't respect that he does, I do place him high on the respect ladder.

"In the same vain, if someone utterly hates another, they're not going to go off and say how they respect them. That all made no sense to me."

*vein, for the future

Refer to what I said above about this. I don't like a few voice actors out there. But I respect them.

 

[Blackadder]

Push others aside? You're trying to take what I said and make it sound violent and abrasive. It's not to make yourself look tough, either, and the charge on you is the same(warp what I said).

It sounded rather harsh, the whole "****" thing has that kinda "Bang!" feel to it. Sorry for that one.

No. Your friend is a total clown and smokes weed every day. Has no job, dropped school, isn't good at anything, etc etc, does nothing that you can respect. Still your friend. No respect.
Obviously this is the most dramatic case and I brought it up so you don't try little counter arguments like "oh what if he does something I do respect even though he does things i highly disrespect like smoking weed every day"
In fact, I have a friend who is a nice guy. He's funny as hell. But he smokes and drinks far too often and isn't going anywhere, is easily frustrated by simple things, and in addition to other things I can't respect that he does, I do place him high on the respect ladder.

This is going to sound fairly weird here but...even if my friend DID smoke weed and drink heavily and such...I'd still respect him. Maybe not because of what he does, but because of who he is.
This guy is my friend, so I guess I'd see something in him, or I wouldn't call him a "friend".

He could smoke all the pot in the world, I'd still respect him.

I guess what I feel is that I just can't come to terms with "It's sexier to be disrespected and liked than to be respected and hated".
That just clashes with who I am and how I see the world I guess.

Me for example? I know I'm far from the brightest bulb in the house (Just check all the grammar corrections you made for me ), and I'm not that manly or tough. Hell, I'm known for being a sissy for always refusing to fight people and rarely insulting back if they do the same to me.
So, I guess I don't have a lot of respect from a lot of people.
But I have a lot of respect from a lot of people, on the other hand, you know?

I just don't see the point in aiming to be greatly respected other than liked.
Sure, there's no point in trying to make EVERYONE love you to death, but I like to try and get alonge with people, you know?

I guess I'd just rather have some fun before my life is over, and don't have much regard for getting respect or being a man and whatnot.

I really like to think that all you need to be to get the right girl in your life is you. Just you, and what you can be. If she loves you for that, then there shouldn't be anything more needed, really.

When it comes to life and relationships Josh, it's pretty clear we see things VERY differently. I think you asked me what makes sense to me, and that's the best I could come up with there.

Hey, for some fun, why don't yall place thoughts on all that?

 

[joshisrad]

The word that got censored was bitch, not a four letter word.


"This is going to sound fairly weird here but...even if my friend DID smoke weed and drink heavily and such...I'd still respect him. Maybe not because of what he does, but because of who he is.
This guy is my friend, so I guess I'd see something in him, or I wouldn't call him a "friend"."

This is very psychologically typical - you're just supplying an answer that isn't true but that others cannot tell you is wrong (because you can just say "who are YOU to say that?"). You precede it by saying it's weird because it IS not usual for you and you know it. It is very possible to have a friend that you do not respect much.

I guess what I feel is that I just can't come to terms with "It's sexier to be disrespected and liked than to be respected and hated".
That just clashes with who I am and how I see the world I guess.

Then the problem is you.
If you can't come to terms with society, then I don't know man. Your problem.

Me for example? I know I'm far from the brightest bulb in the house (Just check all the grammar corrections you made for me ),

for the record I only made one, and just cause it was irking me

and I'm not that manly or tough. Hell, I'm known for being a sissy for always refusing to fight people and rarely insulting back if they do the same to me.
So, I guess I don't have a lot of respect from a lot of people.
But I have a lot of respect from a lot of people, on the other hand, you know?

No. Elaborate.

I just don't see the point in aiming to be greatly respected other than liked.

So having people respect you is not important to you?

Sure, there's no point in trying to make EVERYONE love you to death, but I like to try and get alonge with people, you know?

Did I give you the impression that you should not get along with others? Something I said?

I guess I'd just rather have some fun before my life is over, and don't have much regard for getting respect or being a man and whatnot.

Weird. Are you a man?

I really like to think that all you need to be to get the right girl in your life is you. Just you, and what you can be. If she loves you for that, then there shouldn't be anything more needed, really.

This is a bad way of thinking because it's focusing on "the right girl."
http://www.fastseduction.com/youarenew/9levels.shtml

 

[Blackadder]

The word that got censored was bitch, not a four letter word.

I couldn't be arsed to check how many letters long it is, gimme a break.

This is very psychologically typical - you're just supplying an answer that isn't true but that others cannot tell you is wrong (because you can just say "who are YOU to say that?"). You precede it by saying it's weird because it IS not usual for you and you know it. It is very possible to have a friend that you do not respect much.
[/QUOTE]

Sure it is, I didn't ever say it wasn't.
I originaly just said there's a larger chance of them respecting and liking you, hand in hand.

I honestly never said "Friends always respect each other"

Then the problem is you.
If you can't come to terms with society, then I don't know man. Your problem.

Probably, yeah. But you know, I'll live.

No. Elaborate.

Well, as long as my friends (Which are fairly numerous) are cool with me, then I'm fine.
No matter how many people dislike and disrespect me, I'm happy as long as my friends and family like and respect me.

So having people respect you is not important to you?

Not really, no.
If I have the respect and love from my friends and such, then I'm fairly happy.
If someone doesn't like me at all, and doesn't respect me, I...honestly don't care much. So someone doesn't like me. Whoopdey-****in'-doo.

Did I give you the impression that you should not get along with others? Something I said?

That was really just a throw-in line that came to me, and not directly related to anything you said, really.

Weird. Are you a man?

Uh, a boy, yeah.

This is a bad way of thinking because it's focusing on "the right girl."
http://www.fastseduction.com/youarenew/9levels.shtml

[/QUOTE]

I really meant the right girl as in "Anyone that you can have a strong relationship with". I'm not the kind to think that this is a Disney world were there is only "One true love" if that's what you mean.

So, yeah, that's it really.
I guess I'm somewhat of a hippie and a sissy type person, and I collide with your personality greatly.
I'm not saying you're the devil or anything, I just don't think we'll ever see any real eye to eye with each other.

 

[The Masked Z]

Don't worry, not being a man and letting girls walk all over you have fun with this. This exercises their female power, and they will even give you positive reinforcement (Good Doggy).

Yeah, being a pet is realll ****in fun... Definitely an admirable trait. I salute you.

 

[Jammer]

There are two ways to get the feeling that you are respected.

One is to have other people be afraid of you because you do things like take them aside and lay into them. If you are very opinionated (that's what "having strong opinions and sticking up for them" is, my friend), people won't even try to argue with you, because you won't even listen. If you put your desires above everything else (and yes, that is what you were saying, joshisrad), fine, you might get those desires fulfilled. But it will be at the expense of the people around you. You'll be feared and hated, and possibly even admired for your ability to get your way, but not respected.

To be truly respected, you must be kind and caring, and be the "bigger man". That means not insulting people who have insulted you, and not being oppressive and overbearing with your opinions and desires. Believe me: people will notice. People respect those who don't shove their authority in their faces.

If you think strutting around like a pompous jerk brings you respect, then you've got a lot to learn.

 

[joshisrad]

I couldn't be arsed to check how many letters long it is, gimme a break.

This is very psychologically typical - you're just supplying an answer that isn't true but that others cannot tell you is wrong (because you can just say "who are YOU to say that?"). You precede it by saying it's weird because it IS not usual for you and you know it. It is very possible to have a friend that you do not respect much.

Sure it is, I didn't ever say it wasn't.
I originaly just said there's a larger chance of them respecting and liking you, hand in hand.

Supported by nothing. That's the problem. Empirical eventually but how old are you? 14?

Probably, yeah. But you know, I'll live.

But your genes will get wiped out of the pool.

Well, as long as my friends (Which are fairly numerous) are cool with me, then I'm fine.
No matter how many people dislike and disrespect me, I'm happy as long as my friends and family like and respect me.

They're not going to respect you if you let them walk all over you. Say your friend and you are hanging out with a girl. Your friend is playing it cocky and funny to impress the chick and it ends up belittling you somehow. Maybe you wanted to get with the chick but he's stealing your thunder. You're just gonna sit there and let him take what YOU want. You won't talk to him about it. And not only that, but he's belittled you in front of her. No respect.

Not really, no.

You're saying this in response to my question for you "So having people respect you is not important to you?"

But you JUST said that you are happy as long as your family and friends respect you.
Dude, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about and are just trying to play devil's advocate to everything I say.

If I have the respect and love from my friends and such, then I'm fairly happy.

Who the hell did you think I was talking about when I said "people?"

Uh, a boy, yeah.

When you're older, you'll hopefully produce more testosterone and everything else that will change the way you carry yourself and your confidence/power. While now you are a boy, you may never see life the way a developed man sees it. Until then you can let your potential **** buddies walk all over you.
I used to be similar when I was a kid. I was a big time AFC and when I see it in others I feel the desire to help them.

I really meant the right girl as in "Anyone that you can have a strong relationship with". I'm not the kind to think that this is a Disney world were there is only "One true love" if that's what you mean.

You can have a strong relationship with anyone as long as she isn't a complete ****ing ***** or just doesn't like/respect you. You realize that right? When you have a lot of experience with women you will find more and more things to appreciate about them - the way she speaks her mind - the way she writes her poems - her taste in lattes.
Stray from this "find the right girl" way of thinking, or it becomes very hard to find the "right" girl.

Jammer,

If you put your desires above everything else (and yes, that is what you were saying, joshisrad),

That is not what I said at ALL.

To be truly respected, you must be kind and caring, and be the "bigger man".

I like so far.

That means not insulting people who have insulted you,

not what I said

and not being oppressive and overbearing with your opinions and desires.

a little vague, but giving me the impression of letting people walk on you.

Believe me: people will notice. People respect those who don't shove their authority in their faces.

You guys are trying to make what I said sound so violent. You can exert your authority without shoving it in people's faces. But it is true that if you're a tyrant people will still respect your wishes. Burgermeister Meisterburger (from santa claus claymation movie), Hitler, etc, people who gave outrageous orders but still had armies to carry their duties and people who complied respectfully - and if not respectful, were killed.
I'm not saying be a little Hitler by any means.

 

[Blackadder]

Don't worry, not being a man and letting girls walk all over you have fun with this. This exercises their female power, and they will even give you positive reinforcement (Good Doggy).

Yeah, being a pet is realll ****in fun... Definitely an admirable trait. I salute you.

*Salutes back*

Supported by nothing. That's the problem. Empirical eventually but how old are you? 14?

I can't see any of your stuff being supported by much ethier.
I really really think everything we're saying is the near polar opposite of each other's opinion, and don't think we can see eye to eye at all.

They're not going to respect you if you let them walk all over you. Say your friend and you are hanging out with a girl. Your friend is playing it cocky and funny to impress the chick and it ends up belittling you somehow. Maybe you wanted to get with the chick but he's stealing your thunder. You're just gonna sit there and let him take what YOU want. You won't talk to him about it. And not only that, but he's belittled you in front of her. No respect.

You seem to assume that my friends dislike me for how I see things right?
I can't say that senario has ever come up, and if we BOTH like the girl, I can't see why it's "My thunder" and not both of ours to try and get.

But if that did happen, I wouldn't mind, unless he really starts going over the hill and takin' personal shots.
If he did, I'd probably just talk to him about it.

S'no big deal.

You're saying this in response to my question for you "So having people respect you is not important to you?"

But you JUST said that you are happy as long as your family and friends respect you.
Dude, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about and are just trying to play devil's advocate to everything I say.

I am happy as long as the family and friends do.
But anyone else doesn't really matter much. I had a kid come up to me recently, some uy who REALLY hates me, and he knocked me and said "F@ggot". Whoopdey do. He doesn't like or respect me. End of the world, innit? I simply smiled and said "Hellll yeah!" then made thrusting movements at him.

Yeah, so that comes of as totally insane. But I...really don't care.
It's just the way I think man. Respect isn't that important, especialy when it means sounding so mean all the time.

Who the hell did you think I was talking about when I said "people?"

People sounds like people to me?
When you said "People" I assumed (And I'm sure many others did to) that you meant "Random people" or classmates or other guys.
Not "The family and friends"

When you're older, you'll hopefully produce more testosterone and everything else that will change the way you carry yourself and your confidence/power. While now you are a boy, you may never see life the way a developed man sees it. Until then you can let your potential **** buddies walk all over you.
I used to be similar when I was a kid. I was a big time AFC and when I see it in others I feel the desire to help them.

Well, I'm 16 now. (Well, in a month anyways)
And I've had views like this my whole life. You seem to assume that everyone is walking all over me and making fun of me. Actually the last one is true.

But I can't say I get walked on really. I get through school fairly easily without having random mooks and/or friends come up to me and make me do things.

You can have a strong relationship with anyone as long as she isn't a complete ****ing ***** or just doesn't like/respect you. You realize that right? When you have a lot of experience with women you will find more and more things to appreciate about them - the way she speaks her mind - the way she writes her poems - her taste in lattes.
Stray from this "find the right girl" way of thinking, or it becomes very hard to find the "right" girl.

That just twisted what I said and made it into a "Blackadder is aiming for one woman in his life" thing. As I said before, I think the "right" girl is anyone you can work with in a relationship.
How is that a bad way of thinkin'?

And Josh, I really don't think we're gonna get anywhere with this stuff.
It's all opinion, and say you're right about everything, what do you care if I "fail" or not?
I say we just leave it here, 'cause we're clearly to VERY different people.

 

[nuro]

Learn from the master!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oxbX9jJL7RQ

 

[Zook]

Wow, Blackladder and joshisrad, that's some intense debating.

...BL's a writer now?

Anyways, I know this post is late, but...

Zook is that girl you like a Senior? And you're worried because you're a Sophomore?

Yes. And, from what I've seen, older girls don't enjoy dating younger guys.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Ok, what's the age difference again?

 

[Rici]

Yes. And, from what I've seen, older girls don't enjoy dating younger guys.

This is true.

 

[Zook]

I'm 15, she's 17. Not much, I guess.

EDIT: Then again, this is highschool....

 

[Rici]

Well, I don't know if the girl likes you or not. But what I've experienced is that no matter how nice I was or how much she said I was the best ever, she never really got the spark(I was also 15 and she was 17, took me a while to get over it).

I'm not saying this because I think you don't have any chance at all. I'm just saying it because I think you should be careful or you could get hurt a lot. Heck, I even was questioning myself what she would've thought if I wasn't there anymore(as in suicide, not that I had real suicide attempts, just that I was thinking how the people around me would react).

 

[Zook]

Heh, so have I, Ricardos. Weird...

Anyways, since the month that's gone buy since I've told her how I've felt, nothing much has changed. We don't talk to each other on the internet anymore (She's stopped replying to my messages, and I've stopped sending them), but I wouldn't say our relationship has gotten worse.

...Then again, I'm still yet to ask her out.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I'm 16 and Vikki's 17.

We've know each other since I was 13 and she was 15, we've been together for over a year now.

In July she'll be 18, and I won't be 17 until next November.

 

[joshisrad]

This is far from intense debating, Zook.

I can't see any of your stuff being supported by much ethier.
I really really think everything we're saying is the near polar opposite of each other's opinion, and don't think we can see eye to eye at all.

The difference is I'm speaking from lots of experience(and learned good-form), and everyone who has had a lot of experience with women and turned out to be very good at the game preaches the same stuff.

You seem to assume that my friends dislike me for how I see things right?

Uh, no, I never said no insinuated such a thing.

I can't say that senario has ever come up, and if we BOTH like the girl, I can't see why it's "My thunder" and not both of ours to try and get.

If he's your friend, he needs to be a good wing and not compete over his buddy. That puts anger between people. You keep saying "I can't see why this and that" and that's the problem. You can't see.

But if that did happen, I wouldn't mind, unless he really starts going over the hill and takin' personal shots.

No. You can't say that because it hasn't happened to you. Unless you can show me your crystal ball. You've probably never even seen it happen.

If he did, I'd probably just talk to him about it.

That's what I'm talking about! I don't even understand why you'd argue with it for so long and KEEP arguing against it but at the same time agree.

I am happy as long as the family and friends do. ... Yeah, so that comes of as totally insane. But I...really don't care.

Your friend will not respect you if you let them walk all over you.
You cannot keep shrugging this fact off.

It's just the way I think man. Respect isn't that important, especialy when it means sounding so mean all the time.

This is ridiculous! You do not need to be mean all the time to be respected. I have been telling you this and you keep coming back to it. You're probably only perceiving it as a horrible thing because I used the word *****. Who cares?
Respect is VERY important. In business, you will get nowhere if nobody respects you.

People sounds like people to me?
When you said "People" I assumed (And I'm sure many others did to) that you meant "Random people" or classmates or other guys.
Not "The family and friends"

Why on earth would you interpret a general term as applying strictly to a specific group? People means everyone. Including your friends.

And I've had views like this my whole life. You seem to assume that everyone is walking all over me and making fun of me. Actually the last one is true.

I haven't assumed that. I said that's what happens when you don't get the respect you reserve. Look at Jabberjaw. He never gets the chick. And always complains, "no respect!" Media producers are intelligent people.

But I can't say I get walked on really. I get through school fairly easily without having random mooks and/or friends come up to me and make me do things.

You just said some kid came up to you recently, pushed you, and called you a faggot. I'm not gonna call you a liar, but I have a feeling people disrespect you more than you admit to.

That just twisted what I said and made it into a "Blackadder is aiming for one woman in his life" thing. As I said before, I think the "right" girl is anyone you can work with in a relationship.
How is that a bad way of thinkin'?

No, I didn't twist anything. I never even said that about you. You must have really skewed perception, as you keep on messing things up O_o Reread what I said man, it explains in part why it is a bad way of thinking. You can work with sooo many more people than you imagine right now as "mrs right," - with the obvious exception of people with crutches like cig-smoking, disability, whatever turns you off - and as you experience more, you keep finding things you can appreciate. When your mind is more open, things are much nicer.

It's all opinion, and say you're right about everything, what do you care if I "fail" or not?

I aim to help people.

I say we just leave it here, 'cause we're clearly to VERY different people.

But if we encounter the same person, that won't change them.

 

[smasher32]

And now for something completely different.

Ok, maybe not. Just a few questions that I want to ask some of you for an opinion.

1) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend to a girlfriend?
2) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend, who happens to be your roommate, to a girlfriend?

This might turn awkward if one of my friends sees this, so I may "alter" this post in a week or so...

 

[Jammer]

Joshisrad, you may indeed have very good, reasonable views, but, at least to me, you came across as very adamant that to be respected, one has to be powerful and unforgiving.

I think it might help it if you didn't say things like this:

If you feel like your buddies are walking all over you, set them straight. If you don't feel like you're getting your due, voice your opinion strongly.
Raise your voice if you have to. Keep it short and focused.
Take people aside and ***** them out. It's sexier to be respected and hated than disrespected and liked.
Take responsibility, don't "accept" it. The Jesuits have a saying: "be a man for others". Well, you can't be a man for others if you're not a man for your own sake first.
Establish competency in something, but you better be **** passionate about it. For me, this is music and singing. Did I start singing because I wanted to get laid? No. Did I do it to gain respect from others? No. But it does both. And you shouldn't learn something just to fulfill either section. I ****ing hate those talentless chodes who play guitar - very poorly - just to impress chicks.
Never apologize for your desires. Speak unapologetically.
Never supplicate.
Remain steadfast in whatever you believe - unless of course you find reason you agree with for change. And be righteous. Justice.

When you don't really mean any of those things in the way that it sounds like you do. At least I don't think you do--it seems to me that you just have a bit of trouble saying what you want to say so that other people understand you correctly. Or maybe you just are a jerk, but I don't think that's the case.

Did you know, that if you went to China or Taiwan, or other Asian countries with those ideas for how to be a man, everyone would despise you? It's a cultural thing. You'd be losing face left and right, and you would probably leave in a few weeks in disgrace. What you're describing is how to disrupt other people's lives by not backing down from your own desires.

Your interests will inevitably clash with other people's interests. If you have a policy of never being wrong, you are going to get in many, many conflicts, and you'll always lose in the sense that you'll make others angry at you, whether or not you get what you want. If your idea of being a man means not compromising on your beliefs, then I think we can both see what will happen. Compromise is how we get things done in the real world. There is, of course, a time to be strong and unyielding, but those times are rare.

I think it would be good to add to every item on that list of yours "but only if it is extremely, totally important to you". And very, very few things are so important that you should "Take people aside and ***** them out." How do you feel when someone takes you aside and gets in your face about something? Does that make you agree with them or respect them? Or does it just make you insulted and annoyed?

But bringing this back to relationships: Relationships are all about compromise. You can't expect to be on good terms with another person if you aren't willing to meet half way. Of course, if something's important to you, you should have more say. For example, it wouldn't be right if your girlfriend wanted you to stop playing music, because you love that, and it's important to you. But she could ask you to do it less, or even take a break from it, if it's getting in the way of other things. And you would have no right to simply dismiss those requests.

What I'm saying is that there is only very rarely the time when you should make unilateral decisions, and there is never the time when you don't have to listen to and consider what other people say and feel.

The way you were saying it, joshisrad, "being a man" meant being selfish and immature. I don't think that's what you meant, so I tried to clarify a bit.

 

[joshisrad]

Joshisrad, you may indeed have very good, reasonable views, but, at least to me, you came across as very adamant that to be respected, one has to be powerful and unforgiving.

I think it might help it if you didn't say things like this:

When you don't really mean any of those things in the way that it sounds like you do. At least I don't think you do--it seems to me that you just have a bit of trouble saying what you want to say so that other people understand you correctly. Or maybe you just are a jerk, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean them exactly as I say them. How do any of those things transmit "jerk"? The only one that comes remotely close is, "Take people aside and ***** them out. It's sexier to be respected and hated than disrespected and liked."
And that one line is what ruins it for all of you. It's absurd! Attaining competence in something is now a jerk thing to do? I had no idea!

Did you know, that if you went to China or Taiwan, or other Asian countries with those ideas for how to be a man, everyone would despise you? It's a cultural thing. You'd be losing face left and right, and you would probably leave in a few weeks in disgrace.

Surprise: we aren't in Asia. OBVIOUSLY there are cultural differences. That's completely irrelevant because we are all living in America.

What you're describing is how to disrupt other people's lives by not backing down from your own desires.

Disrupt other people's lives? What the ****? Guys, I've had about enough of you putting words in my mouth. I never said ANYTHING about disrupting other people's lives by not backing down from your desires. I'll appreciate it if this constant and twisted negative portrayal of my words could just end now.

Your interests will inevitably clash with other people's interests. If you have a policy of never being wrong, you are going to get in many, many conflicts, and you'll always lose in the sense that you'll make others angry at you, whether or not you get what you want

Who said anything about having a policy of never being wrong? Not me.
Ugh. This is becoming sickening. I want to believe you can perceive things without such strangling bias.

If your idea of being a man means not compromising on your beliefs, then I think we can both see what will happen.

I didn't say that either.

I think it would be good to add to every item on that list of yours "but only if it is extremely, totally important to you".

You really did let that one line effect the entire section! It's almost like you didn't even read the rest of it. Think about adding what you said to this: "Establish competency in something, but you better be **** passionate about it."
Seriously. ****.

And very, very few things are so important that you should "Take people aside and ***** them out."

How about issues of respect?

How do you feel when someone takes you aside and gets in your face about something? Does that make you agree with them or respect them? Or does it just make you insulted and annoyed?

Don't be ridiculous. I'm 20. You don't think I've experienced such things already? How did you feel when your dad set you straight as a kid? Or did he never? Were you raised only by your mother perhaps? Was your household so wrapped up in today's crazy feminist agenda when you were young? There is no reason to assume I haven't already asked myself the same "and how does that make you feel?" stuff.

But bringing this back to relationships: Relationships are all about compromise.

Is that really ALL they are about?

You can't expect to be on good terms with another person if you aren't willing to meet half way. Of course, if something's important to you, you should have more say. For example, it wouldn't be right if your girlfriend wanted you to stop playing music, because you love that, and it's important to you. But she could ask you to do it less, or even take a break from it, if it's getting in the way of other things. And you would have no right to simply dismiss those requests.

Okay sure that's fine I guess but also completely irrelevant to the advice I gave about being a man.

What I'm saying is that there is only very rarely the time when you should make unilateral decisions, and there is never the time when you don't have to listen to and consider what other people say and feel.

**** man. I never said anything about being a ****ing dictator. I never said "EVERYTHING IS MY DECISION!" But you're acting like I did.

The way you were saying it, joshisrad, "being a man" meant being selfish and immature. I don't think that's what you meant, so I tried to clarify a bit.

Well, by now I think you should get that you completely misunderstood what I said so there it is.


Guy who posted above him said

1) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend to a girlfriend?
2) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend, who happens to be your roommate, to a girlfriend?

This might turn awkward if one of my friends sees this, so I may "alter" this post in a week or so...

1) Almost always not a good thing to try.
2) Absolutely terrible idea.

 

[The Masked Z]

Did you know, that if you went to China or Taiwan, or other Asian countries with those ideas for how to be a man, everyone would despise you? It's a cultural thing. You'd be losing face left and right, and you would probably leave in a few weeks in disgrace. What you're describing is how to disrupt other people's lives by not backing down from your own desires.

1. You are not Asian
2. You don't know the Asian Cultures well enough
3. You don't know the real definition of a "Man" and how he carries and takes responsibility for things rather than putting people at win/lose situations
4. I am Asian, I have very Asian culture oriented family members/friends, and being a man generates more respect than not being one
5. Doing what you want to do in life rather than doing what others want you to do will ULTIMATELY make you happier (Are you living your life for you or for others?)

 

[Elysium]

3. You don't know the real definition of a "Man" and how he carries and takes responsibility for things rather than putting people at win/lose situations

To be fair, there isn't a "real definition" of a man. Thats why I asked the question.

However, I didn't want this to turn into an argument. I just wanted others perspective on the subject.

 

[Livvers]

And now for something completely different.

Ok, maybe not. Just a few questions that I want to ask some of you for an opinion.

1) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend to a girlfriend?
2) What is your opinion of trying to convert a friend, who happens to be your roommate, to a girlfriend?

This might turn awkward if one of my friends sees this, so I may "alter" this post in a week or so...

1.) Hahaha. Probably not even worth a try. Unless she's interested, then you'll have a very small chance.

2.) Not a good idea. At all. Too much can happen and go wrong.

 

[Volrec]

i enjoy this thread

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

So do I Volrec lol

As for the "definiton of a man". A Man is NOT a guy who gets the most girls, makes out with as many as he can, steal as many girls from guys as he can, etc. A real Man is a gentlemen, point blank.

 

[SlayerOfEvil]

1.) Hahaha. Probably not even worth a try. Unless she's interested, then you'll have a very small chance.

2.) Not a good idea. At all. Too much can happen and go wrong.

Agreed. Unless someone can prove me wrong with what i'm about to say, i've heard nothing but bad things about that.

 

[Blackadder]

You just said some kid came up to you recently, pushed you, and called you a faggot. I'm not gonna call you a liar, but I have a feeling people disrespect you more than you admit to.

Yeah, one guy. And he's about 12.
I really don't see why I should bother at all with what he thinks of me.

I just quoted that to show you what I mean when I say you "Assume" things. You know little to nothing of my life, but I still get a vibe that you feel that I live a sad, pathetic one. I'm sure that's not your intentions at all, but it's just what I get from you sometimes. I mean, you take that one statement, and managed to apply it to everyone and everything in my life, if you get me?

EDIT:
I just relised we got through that "Debate" with far less flamming than the last time.
Yippie!

@ Zook
It's not really intense debate...more...
...
Something.

 

[joshisrad]

A real Man is a gentlemen, point blank.

A man is a man. A gentleman is a gentleman. What it means to be a man is not what it means to be a gentleman, and visa versa.

I just quoted that to show you what I mean when I say you "Assume" things.

You never said I "assume things" until now. What you did say was:
"You seem to assume that my friends dislike me for how I see things right?"

Which I didn't.

You know little to nothing of my life, but I still get a vibe that you feel that I live a sad, pathetic one.

You are the one in control of your mind.

I'm sure that's not your intentions at all, but it's just what I get from you sometimes. I mean, you take that one statement, and managed to apply it to everyone and everything in my life, if you get me?

Quit the dramatics. I didn't assume jack **** about "everyone and everything" in your life, buddy. I said exactly this: "I have a feeling people disrespect you more than you admit to."

I'm also assuming you've conceded, seeing as you've agreed that it is good to talk to the person about it when he disrespects you.

 

[Blackadder]

I'm also assuming you've conceded, seeing as you've agreed that it is good to talk to the person about it when he disrespects you.

If it means having the both of us stfu'ing at each other for a while, sure.
I don't mind losing this, if that's what you want me to admit.

Anyways, now that that's done and over, any more relationship posts comin' this way?

 

[Cobalt]

Anyways, now that that's done and over, any more relationship posts comin' this way?

Because you asked, I might as well add my own situation, though I've a good idea how to handle it already. Something has to get this topic back on track, doesn't it?

Anyway, so I'm a junior in high school. Never dated, had a girlfriend, etc., primarily because my experiences with people had led me to shun society until last year. So now there's this girl I like, and have for a while. She's single, though she got out of a relationship back in September/October, and she's content just enjoying single life as of now.

We're fairly similar when it comes to...well, I can't put my finger on the word, so I'll explain it a bit more in-depth. Our intelligences are similar (tied for 1st in class with her, actually), our future interests are similar (highly acclaimed universities), we both take things seriously when we need to but find time to joke around, and we have similar wants out of the educational system. I don't really know how you'd classify all that, heh.

But anyway, so here's the thing. I was just planning on waiting and keeping an ear out for when she might be interested in a relationship again, then finding some way to act on that. The problem with that is that, since my friends know that I don't really have a great love of society, they don't really tell me anything about what's happening to others, so it would be fairly difficult to find out that information (which I accept, and am willing to deal with). And the only way I could realistically ask them to keep an ear out themselves is if I told them my situation, which would most likely result in lots of initial patronization, followed by unwarranted advice; not something I want to get into. So, another way to try and find out when she would be interested in a relationship would be an excellent thing to know, as well as the typical amount of time it takes for a girl to start being willing to have a relationship again after a break-up.

So, anyone got anything to say, now that the thread's no longer debate-filled?

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Do you think that she likes you too? Or suspects that you like her?

 

[Cobalt]

Do you think that she likes you too? Or suspects that you like her?

Well, to be honest, I don't really have much of a clue either way. I doubt that she also likes me, though why, I can't say. As for suspecting that I like her, I can't really answer that, either. She very well may, but her behavior towards me hasn't undergone any changes indicative of suspecting that I do (e.g., becoming more distant if she doesn't feel the same way, becoming closer if she does, etc).

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Ok then, how does she act around you? Flirty? Does she talk to you more than other guys? Does she smile around you a lot? Do you think she enjoys being with you?

 

[Cobalt]

Ok then, how does she act around you? Flirty? Does she talk to you more than other guys? Does she smile around you a lot? Do you think she enjoys being with you?

Heh, I'm afraid you're not going to get much out of me. As I've been in this situation a while, I've probably seen these questions at least a dozen times in different places, and I've never been able to answer them. When it's someone like me, who has very little experience with society, it's difficult for me to know the answers.

But let me try. Does she act flirty? No. Does she talk to me more than other guys? No idea. She does talk to me quite a bit, but I have no clue how much she talks to others. Does she smile around me a lot? It could just be me selectively remembering things, but yes. Do I think she enjoys being with me? Difficult to answer. Just being around me? Probably not. What happens when she's around me? Probably. Particularly, there tends to be a good bit of hilarity, a lot of work gets done, and often there's some good conversation.

 

[Nicolette]

I love how random these threads are!

Let me share my story!

I am totally and utterly in love with my boyfriend and most of the time he is totally devoted to me too.

However, there are times when he is totally off with me. He won't talk to me at all or show me any affection (even when we're alone). It's quite frustrating. He assures me he still loves me and he's sorry whenever I confront him but it happens again and again.

I know it's not really a question but any advice you can give me? I've shed many tears over this (rediculous I know). Maybe he really doesn't love me any more but I'm scared of being on my own.

Thanks xx

 

[Livvers]

Have you talked to him about it and told him how it makes you feel?

One of my exes did **** like that. I eventually broke up with him for many reasons, and that was one of them. I need someone affectionate.