Gheb's crazy auction mafia | Game over, Mafia wins

[#HBC | Nabe]

I seriously doubt that you would have ever expected me to play that way, because there are no PRs, and it wouldn't be a viable strategy for VT or mafia without hidden PRs in the game.

After some thought, I'm still not satisfied here. @ #HBC | Laundry

You specifically warned me not to play in a way that you've observed in my meta, in games that have room for ambiguity. You said that playing in the background is my standard fare, but that I "seem to have a knack for drawing a PR or a mafia role pm along with it so it works" for me. But this game has no room for ambiguity: it's VTs/Traitor/Mafia. If I were to play "as if I were PR/mafia" in a game with no PRs, I would be lynched. There would be no possibility of it "working" for me. So there would be absolutely no reason for me to play in such a way, and (again) I do not believe that you could have thought that I would play in such a way. I think that it's impossible for that thought to have occurred to you in the way that you say it did, and as such I think your explanation of the motivation behind your post is flawed, if not a lie.

@ #HBC | Nabe you can't play the nebulous "I'm a PR or I'm mafia" game you love to play so if I see any inkling of you playing that sort of game, I'm lynching you on the spot.

Different and separate tack. What are some past examples of me playing "that sort of game"? Why did you feel in this game, now, that you had to warn me about such play?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If they were avoiding it (see: Nabe), I directly called them out.

Excuse me?

 

[Zalak]

Never have I stated I'm trying to get people to talk about themselves. I've been trying to get people talking. I wanted to give people a talking point because it moves the game out of RVS and pulls the nulls off the fence faster.

Get ready, because I'm about to use the REVERSE OF YOUR STRATEGY.

You ARE experienced. You should have known that INTENTIONALLY MAKING YOURSELF A MAGNET (if that really is what you're doing) would only serve to make you a huge target of suspicion. If we really are wasting our time by pressing you, it's your fault, not ours.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Or you could get them talking about each other. What's the benefit of getting them to talk about you, an alleged townie, if you're going to continue making yourself look scummy as possible.

Because it's not just making me look scummy as possible. You're the only person here who legit scumreads me. Kursed has already admitted his read is half-baked at best and Ruy's is fueled by paranoia. Nearly everyone else has me as null at worst if not town. The benefit of this style of play is straddling the line just enough to get scum to fall for it. A relatively easy angle onto a power player that they could push for free? That's candy to the scum and sometimes they just go for it. Gorf's done this to me in the past when I hydra'd with another player named Rake (MMU Mafia, Gorf), for example, and he is not the only one to try this crap. It also can draw out townies who actually try to lynch me for better than that (you, for example), or simply read it well enough to understand and make use of what I'm putting out (Gorf).

This is a concept called "sticking your neck out" taken to the absolute extreme.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

because what is the point gorf? what's the connection? how DO they work well together?

well first off his "deflectiveness" is your interpertation of what he did, which was comment on those who threw suspicion at em. if anything i was tryna deflect conversation about it when it started cuz HE was making a fuss over it. but it worked and got us catapulted out of rvs because, in the end, him sniping got people to start chiming in and talking. which is what both achieve. theyre different approaches (which he did) to the same goal (which has been achieved).

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Get ready, because I'm about to use the REVERSE OF YOUR STRATEGY.

You ARE experienced. You should have known that INTENTIONALLY MAKING YOURSELF A MAGNET (if that really is what you're doing) would only serve to make you a huge target of suspicion. If we really are wasting our time by pressing you, it's your fault, not ours.

I know.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

After some thought, I'm still not satisfied here. @ #HBC | Laundry

You specifically warned me not to play in a way that you've observed in my meta, in games that have room for ambiguity. You said that playing in the background is my standard fare, but that I "seem to have a knack for drawing a PR or a mafia role pm along with it so it works" for me. But this game has no room for ambiguity: it's VTs/Traitor/Mafia. If I were to play "as if I were PR/mafia" in a game with no PRs, I would be lynched. There would be no possibility of it "working" for me. So there would be absolutely no reason for me to play in such a way, and (again) I do not believe that you could have thought that I would play in such a way. I think that it's impossible for that thought to have occurred to you in the way that you say it did, and as such I think your explanation of the motivation behind your post is flawed, if not a lie.



Different and separate tack. What are some past examples of me playing "that sort of game"? Why did you feel in this game, now, that you had to warn me about such play?

Reaching way too far into this to pull out a reason to distrust me. You play in the background. There's no point related to the set-up itself, no "you should've known better because it doesn't work in this set-up", etc., because my call-out wasn't related to that. I don't want you in the shadows. I don't trust Gorf to lynch you on D3 when I'm dead. I don't want you to hide in the shadows until just the right item comes along for you to pull a massive power play for scum. I see no reason to trust you because your entire play this game has been to gun for that stinkbug among a bunch of other players and then to yell at me for putting a spotlight on you. Point blank, if there's a slot that scares me in this game, it's you. It's not Gorf, Gorf can expose himself. I'm doing everything in my power to shrink your hiding spots so that you play the game or you die. It's that simple.

Look at you now. You're interaction with this game is to be grumpy with me for doing exactly that. I have no way to read you for it. You're doing exactly what I said you could do: hiding in broad daylight.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: *Your interaction

im bronz

 

[Zalak]

Because it's not just making me look scummy as possible. You're the only person here who legit scumreads me. Kursed has already admitted his read is half-baked at best and Ruy's is fueled by paranoia. Nearly everyone else has me as null at worst if not town. The benefit of this style of play is straddling the line just enough to get scum to fall for it. A relatively easy angle onto a power player that they could push for free? That's candy to the scum and sometimes they just go for it. Gorf's done this to me in the past when I hydra'd with another player named Rake (MMU Mafia, Gorf), for example, and he is not the only one to try this crap. It also can draw out townies who actually try to lynch me for better than that (you, for example), or simply read it well enough to understand and make use of what I'm putting out (Gorf).

This is a concept called "sticking your neck out" taken to the absolute extreme.

I still bothers me that you seem to put more effort into explaining your play than you do actually playing it out. Our conversation doesn't prevent you from questioning other players. Oh, you just posted about Nabe while I was writing this also-

RED RYU SHOW YOURSELF

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ouch man

cant kill mah vibe doe

 

[Zalak]

It still bothers me*

This is a concept called "sticking your neck out" taken to the absolute extreme.

To finish my thought up. By explaining your play, you're not actually making your neck look very vulnerable.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I still bothers me that you seem to put more effort into explaining your play than you do actually playing it out. Our conversation doesn't prevent you from questioning other players. Oh, you just posted about Nabe while I was writing this also-

RED RYU SHOW YOURSELF

Look at the game since P5. I had Kursed come at me, then Ruy, then you. Kursed's read was a pushover but it's hard to handle drunken paranoia and you had something more legitimate that I couldn't turn to my advantage. It's kinda hard not to play on the back foot from that point onward. I did come out of it with townreads on you and Ruy and I think my read on Kursed is hilariously improving a little bit but I'm not entirely letting him off the hook.

 

[Zalak]

Red Ryu, if you don't say anything, I'm gonna vote you. *Raises fists*

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I still bothers me that you seem to put more effort into explaining your play than you do actually playing it out. Our conversation doesn't prevent you from questioning other players. Oh, you just posted about Nabe while I was writing this also-

RED RYU SHOW YOURSELF

lol this happens all the time, if you notice you guys have been the only real active players in the past couple hours, so youre just goin back and forth. other avenues cant be pursued till they respond.

 

[Zalak]

Look at the game since P5. I had Kursed come at me, then Ruy, then you. Kursed's read was a pushover but it's hard to handle drunken paranoia and you had something more legitimate that I couldn't turn to my advantage. It's kinda hard not to play on the back foot from that point onward. I did come out of it with townreads on you and Ruy and I think my read on Kursed is hilariously improving a little bit but I'm not entirely letting him off the hook.

Okay, that's fair. I still think you spent too much time trying to justify your actions early game, but it's completely understandable right now. I think it's time for the others to speak.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

lol ebwop:

"this happens to me* all the time..."

 

[Zalak]

lol this happens all the time, if you notice you guys have been the only real active players in the past couple hours, so youre just goin back and forth. other avenues cant be pursued till they respond.

Yeah, I kinda went too far.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Okay, that's fair. I still think you spent too much time trying to justify your actions early game, but it's completely understandable right now. I think it's time for the others to speak.

LIKE YOU @ #HBC | Nabe

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe what is your opinion/stances on jay, rosa and kursed?

Jay -- will get back to you.
Rosa -- null, maybe townlean, I like her looking at
Kursed -- claimed scum, hasn't taken it back, seems to be embracing scumminess with open arms

Reaching way too far into this to pull out a reason to distrust me. You play in the background. There's no point related to the set-up itself, no "you should've known better because it doesn't work in this set-up", etc., because my call-out wasn't related to that.

Bull****. You said "nebulous, as if you were PR/mafia". The setup is tied to your words.

I don't want you in the shadows. I don't trust Gorf to lynch you on D3 when I'm dead. I don't want you to hide in the shadows until just the right item comes along for you to pull a massive power play for scum. I see no reason to trust you because your entire play this game has been to gun for that stinkbug among a bunch of other players and then to yell at me for putting a spotlight on you. Point blank, if there's a slot that scares me in this game, it's you. It's not Gorf, Gorf can expose himself. I'm doing everything in my power to shrink your hiding spots so that you play the game or you die. It's that simple.

Combative -- you're upping the ante reflexively. Doing "everything in [your] power" is a gross exaggeration. We've exchanged 5-6 posts in 24 hours, and none of your posting in the interim has had anything to do with me. If you're town, then instead of bullying tactics, give what I said about your motivation more thought.

Look at you now. You're interaction with this game is to be grumpy with me for doing exactly that. I have no way to read you for it. You're doing exactly what I said you could do: hiding in broad daylight.

No. You don't get to use my play after the fact to justify what you said about my previous play (meta).

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

C'mon and vote me Nabe. Stick your neck out. Stop hiding.

 

[Zalak]

Also

@Maven89
@Orboknown
@Red Ryu
@RosalinaSGS
@Kursed

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

LIKE YOU @ #HBC | Nabe

Lose the testosterone. No more bull****; my posting is on pace.

 

[Zalak]

OOPS

Unvote

 

[Zalak]

Lose the testosterone. No more bull****; my posting is on pace.

It's really not, but you're at least not the LEAST active around here.

 

[Zalak]

Lose the testosterone. No more bull****; my posting is on pace.

also what's wrong with a little ENTHUSIASM!?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

C'mon and vote me Nabe. Stick your neck out. Stop hiding.

Please address my very reasonably stated points. I'm not going to buy into your persona, because doing so gives you a window to not be held accountable for the statements you make and the words you choose (or choose not) to use.

 

[Zalak]

Vote: Red Ryu

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Jay -- will get back to you.
Rosa -- null, maybe townlean, I like her looking at
Kursed -- claimed scum, hasn't taken it back, seems to be embracing scumminess with open arms

are you kidding me

Bull****. You said "nebulous, as if you were PR/mafia". The setup is tied to your words.

No, it's not. You're tying it to my words, not me. The entire purpose of that call-out was that I don't want you hiding, playing vague, or not answering things. The long and short of that, which you don't seem to grasp, is I don't want you riding the fence and being ultimately inactive and null. I referenced those games because those are the most extreme examples of you doing it--Wal-Mart, Luigi's Mansion, and Elements and Attributes are all examples of you playing that way, but they've become such the norm for you from my perspective that that is the way you play this game. The set-up loses any sort of meaning as a result because that, to me, is your normal play. What doesn't matter is what games you did it in--what does is that I don't want you doing it here. This game is wrought with potential for all sorts of power plays based on what I know about the items and I'd be pretty happy knowing that you never get one.

Combative -- you're upping the ante reflexively. Doing "everything in [your] power" is a gross exaggeration. We've exchanged 5-6 posts in 24 hours, and none of your posting in the interim has had anything to do with me. If you're town, then instead of bullying tactics, give what I said about your motivation more thought.

And if you're town, stop tacking words and motives into my slot. I've been very direct and, most importantly, consistent about what the nature of that call-out was. If you look over my posts, it hasn't changed, and yet you continue to fight with me over it as if I'm scum for trying to put a spotlight on a player with a history of manipulation and lurking. Maybe then you'll stop trying to call me scum over grammar.

No. You don't get to use my play after the fact to justify what you said about my previous play (meta).

No but I damn well get to use it to try to lynch you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

unvote vote red ruy

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Lose the testosterone. No more bull****; my posting is on pace.

Please address my very reasonably stated points. I'm not going to buy into your persona, because doing so gives you a window to not be held accountable for the statements you make and the words you choose (or choose not) to use.

I will when you actually make a damn move to allow yourself to be held accountable for something.

 

[Zalak]

I am very bothered right now. I know there are only 3 scum roles, but it feels like everyone is being inactive and shifty.

 

[Zalak]

KURSED, YOU HAD BETTER POST SOMETHING

 

[Zalak]

I am very bothered right now. I know there are only 3 scum roles, but it feels like everyone is being inactive and shifty.

I make decisive games look like INDECISIVE games.

 

[Zalak]

I know.

Oh and I didn't mean to insult you here, sorry. My point was that it seemed like an odd tactic for an experienced player to use.

Kursed might just be catching up right now, but Red Ryu left without even explaining his lack of posts.

 

[Zalak]

If Kursed leaves without posting though....

Also, Nabe seems to have just sneaked away.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

@Orboknown can we have some reads? How are you reading Laundry, Nabe, and Kursed?

 

[Zalak]

@Orboknown

what Jay said

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Also guys don't be too harsh on Ryu's activity ( this is mainly at Zalak. )
This activity level is normal for him, from what I've seen. Give him some time and he'll get important stuff done.

 

[Zalak]

Kursed just left WITHOUT POSTING

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

No, it's not. You're tying it to my words, not me. The entire purpose of that call-out was that I don't want you hiding, playing vague, or not answering things. The long and short of that, which you don't seem to grasp, is I don't want you riding the fence and being ultimately inactive and null. I referenced those games because those are the most extreme examples of you doing it--Wal-Mart, Luigi's Mansion, and Elements and Attributes are all examples of you playing that way, but they've become such the norm for you from my perspective that that is the way you play this game. The set-up loses any sort of meaning as a result because that, to me, is your normal play. What doesn't matter is what games you did it in--what does is that I don't want you doing it here.

So your argument here is, you think I am a bad player. And in fact, your opinion of my play is so low that it doesn't seem like a leap of logic to you that I would play "nebulously", "as if [ I ] were a PR/mafia" in a game with no PRs. In other words, you think I'm an idiot, and that fact in your mind justifies a separation between the circumstances of the game and what you imagined would be my playstyle for that game, prior to my making a single post.

And if you're town, stop tacking words and motives into my slot. I've been very direct and, most importantly, consistent about what the nature of that call-out was. If you look over my posts, it hasn't changed, and yet you continue to fight with me over it as if I'm scum for trying to put a spotlight on a player with a history of manipulation and lurking. Maybe then you'll stop trying to call me scum over grammar.

Consistency isn't credit to your alignment when the thing you're doing consistently is to consistently suggest that you said one thing, but meant something else. As I said prior, I think the actual motivation behind your "spotlight" on me is to posture for town by looking like you're calling out a player who, in your eyes, would fulfill that behaviour based on prior play, and thus wouldn't object to being used.

No but I damn well get to use it to try to lynch you.

Yes, I suspect that's the point of your play.