Gheb's crazy auction mafia | Game over, Mafia wins

[#HBC | Laundry]

Laundry, maybe I haven't been explaining myself, but I'm not trying to say that what happened proves you're scum. It doesn't. I think it's likely that you're scum, or at least I want you to be because it would be a quick and simple solution to all of this cluter**** that's happened. But my point was that Jay being lynched is not a point in your favor. I'm assuming the mafia isn't so incompetent to just not send in a night kill, which means that it was a deliberate trick on their part. The trick would either have to be that you're scum and chose not to kill in order to frame Jaytheunseen, or the mafia chose to not kill and hope for the best. Clearly there's problems with both of these, I honestly find the first one more likely since I can easily see a couple of ways that could happen, I pointed it out in that second post to you, but pointing out that this has problems (which it does, because Jay would be a really dumb choice) does not mean it didn't happen, since the other option, the mafia just chose to hope you didn't pick one of them, is also really dumb. So clearly something off has happened, so just because the option against you has a problem is not a problem because the other one also has a problem. I'll also point out that I think you can agree that you made a mistake in your game no matter what alignment you are since you're in this position, so again pointing out that it would've been a dumb decision doesn't clear you and doesn't work as a defense.

The problem with this situation, both my approach, and the approach against me, is that it all works from hypotheticals. You can say "this makes sense as scum" but it makes sense as town too. The short and simple of it is that I use my roleblocker and see a no kill, so I claim my target and go at it, for a couple of reasons: Jay hadn't really done anything at all of note so it wasn't implausible that he was scum, and while I considered that I may be jumping at nothing, I couldn't have known until Jay flipped. Given that I lynched a townie off a "bingo", scum then see this and realize they have no need to shoot me--I'm a really easy lynch the next day. This shouldn't necessarily make me scum.

Also, you can continue to phrase it as "I'm scum setting up a play" or "scum took a risk deliberately no killing in hopes of you hitting a townie", but Gheb proved there's a third possible scenario: "Scum simply didn't send in a kill." In fact, I'm beginning to believe that's the most likely scenario.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

All or nothing; but you're not coming to Lylo. Especially not with unknown stinkbug and roleblock status.

I could prove that my roleblocker is gone but I don't see a particularly helpful way of doing so. I've already said I'm not using the stinkbug but my word means jack right now.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

He claimed a role block on a town player in a scenario that could lead to a quickdraw..

What do you make of my play from the moment you replaced in?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What do you make of my play from the moment you replaced in?

The argument with Nabe was dumb from both sides. You acted incredibly sure of yourself with that bingo which is what you'd do with a fake claim as well. Occam's Razor thirst for your lifeblood.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Atm I'm sticking to the slot that's got the most on it's scum list. Lynching Gorf, claiming a guilty on an unsuspected Town slot, taking the stinkbug, and in general having flipped it's reads more than anyone else in the game so far, and at the most convenient times. Last thing we heard from Laundry before he dipped was that he was most suspicious of Ryu, but then he was okay with Ryu getting the voteblock. That doesn't make sense from a town perspective, or even from a scum one unless scum was entirely out of money at this point (hint, I think they are).

I've already said the Gorf wagon was a mistake. I want to reiterate that there wasn't much better at the time. I put the case down, had little tiem to respond to Gorf, then had to go to sleep. That wagon ended before I even checked the thread again. The only other option at the time was Kursed who, judging how quickly his wagon fell apart in favor of my push on Gorf, suggests that lynch was probably even less solid. You can fault me for being wrong, but that doesn't necessarily make me scum in light of the scenario that happened.

The guilty is a guilty is a guilty and there's still the angle that we now know that it may have not even been a calculated play on the scum's part as Gheb has confirmed that scum no kill sent=no kill performed. Given that Gheb neglected to put as much in the rules and nobody had the clarity of mind to ask, we simply didn't know that was a plausible scenario. That's now a third angle to take in, a third hypothetical to account for. That shouldn't immediately equate to me being scum as I simply may have jumped at a no kill when scum may just not have been here to send one.

I will admit I kinda **** all over the thread in bid phase 3 but I was angry and had no clue how to handle the scenario I was in. That's why I vanished for a couple of days.

with a player with a known roleblock on the table you're actually able to both fake a guilty and keep the roleblock around for use.

Where is this idea coming from?

So far Laundry's defense on the matter has been "why would I?", but if you look at the outcomes I can quite clearly see why you would. So far it's been a 2 for 1, and since we still haven't found the traitor this would still be a perfect traitor play to make, especially when you incorporate in the stinkbug. Even as regular mafia I see this as a winning scenario. I mean even now after the fact we're still wifoming ourselves about lynching him and now the game is on the line.

Again, as I just pointed out to Maven: the entire scenario is hypotheticals and it goes both ways. I shouldn't rely on hypotheticals to prove myself but I shouldn't have to defend myself from hypotheticals. There's no real proof that I'm scum who faked a bingo, just as there's no real proof that I'm town because I didn't.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The argument with Nabe was dumb from both sides. You acted incredibly sure of yourself with that bingo which is what you'd do with a fake claim as well. Occam's Razor thirst for your lifeblood.

I'll admit I expected a bit more than this. How about the rest of the playerlist now?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll admit I expected a bit more than this. How about the rest of the playerlist now?

Nabe's argument with you was dumb. Orbo coming into the thread and instant buying something then disappearing is grimy. Kursed is disgusting. Dietz is pursuing the logical course of action. Ruy jumps around at about a million miles an hour. Maven does nothing noteworthy I can recall.

Basically, I could lynch anyone but Dietz.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, I'm playing DFO at the moment and you're getting one liners because it's all I have time to type between dungeons.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I mean, I don't really care about that. I'm more concerned about the fact that it's D3, there's been a lot that's happened, and your lynch pool is 6 players at the moment.

I'm also concerned that you're doing very mechanical plays. For example:

The argument with Nabe was dumb from both sides. You acted incredibly sure of yourself with that bingo which is what you'd do with a fake claim as well. Occam's Razor thirst for your lifeblood.

Given that I didn't know that mafia not sending a kill means that mafia doesn't perform a kill, what do you expect me to do with a roleblock that I used and a no kill on my hands, ignore it and pretend it didn't happen? Almost every slot in the game opened the bid phase with "who did you roleblock?" No matter what I said, as soon as I outed my target, there was practically no going back, and if I hid my target, town would've kept prying until I revealed it. You yourself was saying "there's no way I'm gonna let a slot with a bingo on it live" and you weren't the only one. It turned out my bingo wasn't real, and now you're coming to the other side of a coin of "faked bingo=scum". You argue so hard against "lynch all liars" and yet here we are, with you acting solely upon that.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Anyway, that's my contribution for toDay. I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote Laundry

Do you really think had I, for example, had done what you've done you wouldn't be lynching me?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Vote Laundry

Do you really think had I, for example, had done what you've done you wouldn't be lynching me?

That's a horse**** argument and you know it. Why did it take you this long to vote me?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ Jdietz43 Mafia is Maven/Ryker. Don't **** this up.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll be quite honest. It's REALLY hard for me to invest myself in this game at all when I replaced into a game that is, by all appearances, quite ****ed.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'll be quite honest. It's REALLY hard for me to invest myself in this game at all when I replaced into a game that is, by all appearances, quite ****ed.

I don't care. Answer my questions.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I also do want to point out that, again, the second you receive any sort of flak, even from the guy on the chopping block, you again resort to whining about the fact that you replaced and how it's holding you back. This is some of the most subtle ways of dodging responsibility I've seen yet and I know that's not unintentional.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't care. Answer my questions.

Make me, ass pie.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@ Jdietz43 Mafia is Maven/Ryker. Don't **** this up.

@ Jdietz43
Follow-up post because I'm expecting a "why you're mafia"

A) I'm not long for this world but I am town and as soon as I die, you'll know that. As a result, I want to leave you something to work off of in case you end up lost on what direction to turn.

B) I am beginning to think that it is more and more likely that mafia simply didn't send a kill and are fortunate that I went full aggro on Jay as a result of not knowing that that's how it worked in this game. Maven made a fair point that mafia would have to bank me not targeting them in order to make a play off of that. Even then, I would have to assume that the mafia's gameplan at that point is deliberately use me to make a giant mess in order to make me look like **** and then lynch me which is needlessly specific, very cocky, and somewhat dickish honestly, and that's nothing they could bank on.

C) Given that I assume that mafia sent the kill in, mafia hides among the inactives, not in the guy with the highest postcount in the game. D1, the only people who were truly inactive are the guy who got replaced (Rosa, now Ryker) and the guy who earned a modvote for it (as well as one toDay), Maven. However, it doesn't simply stop there. Maven's push on Kursed needs incredible amounts of investigation and someone needs to call Drew on his mechanical bull**** and the fact that he whines about replacing in the second that someone scrutinizes him.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Make me, *** pie.

And now sudden aggression when whining isn't working. Incredible.

vote: Ryker

 

[Kursed]

Unvote Vote: Ryker

(sorry i wasn't sure if i already voted Maven or not.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And now sudden aggression when whining isn't working. Incredible.

vote: Ryker

You're really annoying.

 

[Kursed]

Kursed is disgusting.

Make me, *** pie.

Really?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You're really annoying.

Ad hominem now. Still waiting for an actual response.

 

[Maven89]

The problem with this situation, both my approach, and the approach against me, is that it all works from hypotheticals.

We're playing mafia dummy. No **** this is going to be based on hypotheticals

You can say "this makes sense as scum" but it makes sense as town too. The short and simple of it is that I use my roleblocker and see a no kill, so I claim my target and go at it, for a couple of reasons: Jay hadn't really done anything at all of note so it wasn't implausible that he was scum, and while I considered that I may be jumping at nothing, I couldn't have known until Jay flipped. Given that I lynched a townie off a "bingo", scum then see this and realize they have no need to shoot me--I'm a really easy lynch the next day. This shouldn't necessarily make me scum.

No one was talking about Night 2? Why are you trying to explain why you survived after the Jay lynch?

Also, you can continue to phrase it as "I'm scum setting up a play" or "scum took a risk deliberately no killing in hopes of you hitting a townie", but Gheb proved there's a third possible scenario: "Scum simply didn't send in a kill." In fact, I'm beginning to believe that's the most likely scenario.

Because I find it impossible to believe both scum members would completely fail to send in a night kill.

Laundry I have no idea why you keep saying "the traitor isn't mafia", because 1. yes it is, and 2. scum die. You being ******** about Kurse's slot is also not a point in your defense. I was hoping for better.

Vote: Laundry

 

[Maven89]

And please everyone look at my Kursed push, for the love of God let him finally have to answer for his play

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Hey look, the mafia just quicklynched me. That was simple.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Damn I wish I wasn't on my phone so I could tear that post apart before ghwb comes back with the flip.

Point about hypothetical: no, that's horse****. We argue with what we see. The best cases are not the ones with hypothetical but proof. Your only proof is that I claimed a bingo from a role block on a no kill. Everything else you have come at me with is purely incidental crap that you can string together for it to make sense for me to be scum. There's no actual evidence brought up by my actions that support it. Just guesswork. That's not solid at all.

Point about the traitor: he does not have mafia in his role pm. He wins with mafia but counts as a townie. I don't want to lynch him up until this point.

But, again, thank you for quicklynxhing me. It should make your downfall easier.

@ #HBC | Nabe all this **** applies to you too. You can't call someone a liar when you can't prove it. The only thing you brought was a bunch of made up **** that you tacked onto my posts to justify that sentiment. That's not an actual argument.

Have fun needs. Don't **** this up.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And you best believe I'm busting asses in post game.

 

[Orboknown]

I left for a bit, sorry Gheb, I was mad at the game and figured it'd be better to cool off than come back and keep spewing bile at everyone and everything.

vote: Maven

That slot pushes Kursed specifically as the town traitor on D1, and then uses the fact that it wasn't lynched as a reason to lynch me. Singling Kursed out as the Town Traitor is especially nefarious--it's the equivalent of Indy hunting in the game. The traitor is not at all aligned with the mafia in terms of role PM, so they can freely push it and hunt for it and if they misfire, well, oops, they hit town (perfect thing for scum to push, no?). That and him using Kursed's bandwagon failing as a reason to suspect me is a joke. I pushed the Gorf lynch, sure, but that should be a sign as to how poor the Kursed bandwagon truly was. That lynch happened at the end of the day and I had just one vote. If Kursed was such a solidly scummy player, then there's more than enough reason to believe he would've been lynched over Gorf and my case and vote would've been ignored in favor of him.

If Maven is, in fact, mafia, you can assume that Kursed is town--I believe he's sincere in saying Kursed is the traitor and therefore unaligned with him directly (as you can assume the same of any scummer pushing an indy). I also believe that Kursed was sincere when he showed zero awareness as to the mechanics of the traitor earlier in the thread when asked about it.

That's all I really have. Drew won't read, Nabe's unbelievably stubborn or scum, and Dietz is stuck on this as well. Maven's scum so IDGAF, but that's 4 slots to lynch me when it takes 5 to lynch, and just Kursed and Ruy supporting me does nothing in my end. My goal would be to swing Orbo to my cause and force a stalemate but it's likely Orbo is scum as well and I have a modvote on my side so this doesn't work.

Wait, I have an idea.

Ime an I'm open to looking at things. Whos mavens partner you think?

 

[Orboknown]

@ Jdietz43 Mafia is Maven/Ryker. Don't **** this up.

Well that just happened but i was gonna say what changed between you saying you thought rykera frustrations were legit and this right here?

 

[Maven89]

I honestly had no idea that was the hammer

Laundry if you're actually town you can be as bitter as you like post game, but you were in this situation with nothing to point to as town credit and the only defense you put up was crap, then you went for me on the idea that I didn't buy your argument as being valid. It wasn't. I wish the day didn't end so soon but you can blow me if you're going to come in here throwing a fit at me about where your play got you

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Naw, y'all can blow me.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe all this **** applies to you too. You can't call someone a liar when you can't prove it. The only thing you brought was a bunch of made up **** that you tacked onto my posts to justify that sentiment. That's not an actual argument.

I put up a simple logical breakdown explaining the events of Day 1 succinctly, and followed it up with a quote tree that showed all of the events I described. To my eyes, that logic dictates a scumslip predicated on a lie with no town motivation for the lie. You have never told me why this logic is wrong, instead saying, "well, actually, my words are different from the intent behind them" which isn't logical, and suggests the phrase, "I mean, you are right based on those words, but I didn't mean that." You have provided no logical basis whatsoever countering my logic-driven argument that you are scum. No one has even attempted to analyze the logic, no one has said, "step 4 is where you went wrong, and here is the reasoning as to why." The arguments that I have gotten are, "that is dumb, you are dumb," except from you, when you thinking I'm dumb would invalidate my entire premise. If one person had a single argument that said I was wrong, that would be the end of it, but no one has produced that. And, in my opinion, no one can, which is why I keep confidently bringing it up, and confidently focusing my entire game's play on it and on you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Laundry [5] - <MOD>, Nabe, Dietz, Ryker, Maven
Ryker [2] - Laundry, Kursed

Not voting: Red Ryu, Orboknown

Laundry [Vanilla Townie] has been lynched.
Day 3 ends, Night 3 begins.
Send in all Night Actions until the last minute of Wednesday 4.15; GMT

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ryker [Vanilla Townie] has been killed during the Night.

Bid phase 4 begins

~~~
​

Good morning, girls and boys - sorry for the delay! We're back in action with the 4th round of bidding. Get your money ready we got some cool new stuff here waiting for a new owner.

... the first item ...

... is a 3x roleblocker add-on! Yeeeeeeeeeeeees, you get to roleblock up to three players at once with this amazingly powerful item. Nothing can possibly get through this roleblocking wave! I hope you have some money left for this one because you're not getting it for any less than the minimum bid of 9000. It's worth every damn coin, I tell you!

~~~
​

... the next item ...

... is a Gun! Oh my ****ing goodness, can this really be true? You get to bid for a ****ing gun. Skip all the nonsense debating, cut the crap and blow a ****ing hole in any mofos brains. There's only one bullet in it but ain't that enough? It's certainly enough for a minimum bid of 9000, ladies and gents! What did you expect? Goodness comes at a high price and it can't possibly get any better than this!

~~~
​

... the final item ...

... is a first aid box. Same deal as last time except you only get to use it once. Not as huge as the triple iteration of this item but also a lot more affordable at a cute minimum bid of 2500. Don't underestimate this item.

~~~
​

Money count: Nabe - 20K, Kursed - 20K; everybody else has 0 money left;

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Bid 20k on Gun

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Not entirely sure I thought that one out, actually...

 

[Jdietz43]

No you... really didn't need to do that since Kursed is the only one else with money left and he doesn't have 20k.

 

[Jdietz43]

Wait no, he still had his money. Nvm.

It was a reasonable call.

 

[Jdietz43]

Pretty sure we still win though. GJ.

#traitor


If I were you I'd use your gun immediately before Kursed gets here. If it's anything like my powers the wording was "ANY" time, and you got the item as soon as you won the bid. I'm sadly out of powers making you bug invincible and Ryker for sure killable last night, but I think we've still got a stranglehold here even if the shot is blocked.

For safety's sake I won't out #3 but I can if I have to for credibility. I think my play and choices speak for themselves on that one though, hopefully you two already knew.