Gheb's crazy auction mafia | Game over, Mafia wins

[Jdietz43]

Like. Put that shot in now, don't even wait for Gheb to PM you that you've got it.

 

[Jdietz43]

@#HBC | Nabe 10chars attention bump.

 

[Jdietz43]

Now I sit back and wait for the salt to pour in. Hueheue

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not salty, just a oops town self destruct and some pretty bad play all around myself included.

 

[Maven89]

Are you kidding me

....Kursed was town?

gg scum, i guess. you *****

 

[Maven89]

Was Orbo the third?

 

[Kursed]

Ugh. I wish i got that gun sooner.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alex, for real, I was trying to give you a chance to convince me you were town and you just kept insulting me. But we talked about it.

Whatever. I'm just glad someone finally played this slot.

 

[Maven89]

Wait is the game actually over now?

 

[Kursed]

Wait is the game actually over now?

Yeah. 3v3. That gun was towns only chance. Then nabe got it.

 

[Maven89]

Vote: kursed

Not even the mafia claiming will stop this push from happening

 

[Orboknown]

Maven visited ryker so pri sure hes numero 3.

 

[Orboknown]

Town played like ass and we should have lynched nabe wayyyyyy earlier. And dietz

 

[Maven89]

m assuming the mafia isn't so incompetent to just not send in a night kill,

I was incompetent and forgot to send in a night kill

 

[Maven89]

I also honestly didn't realize I was hammering Laundry and had a mini panic attack when I realized I did something so scummy

 

[Orboknown]

Disappointed mostly in myself here, scum got lucky with the no kill rb shenanigans

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, **** like this is why I generally make the mafia kill compulsive and randomized on a failure to send in a target.

 

[Maven89]

I honestly don't understand why you would do that and not for any other PR

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

because a factional Night kill is an important thing to have, considering that schenanigans like what happened here wouldnt happen. theres wifom, and then theres concrete evidence. blocking a NK should be concrete evidence.

 

[Maven89]

I mean we could have just not sent in a NK and the exact same results would have happened

 

[Maven89]

@ ~ Gheb ~ can you officially end this?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

but making the punishment a randomized kill is where that comes in. the mafia should be REQUIRED to kill, because that makes for stability in the structure of the game. one can argue that it becomes a matter of taking that into consideration in the moment, but getting a false bingo on an rb because the mafia didnt kill is ridiculous.

 

[Maven89]

Nah, I really don't see that. I absolutely understand salt at the fact that it was unintentional on our part, I agree that that sucked, but the mafia chosing to not NK to attempt to frame someone is an incredibly risky play but I don't think it should be outlawed because players want their items or roles to be more important then they are. You don't allow cops without counters so you can't bingo a mafia player without argument, the same should be for the RB.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah game's officially over as town can no longer win, not even in theory.

Also, **** like this is why I generally make the mafia kill compulsive and randomized on a failure to send in a target.

Ironically, this is the first time game in ages I did it the other way round. Up until now I tought randomizing the kill would be better but I kinda dislike the idea because scum should be punished for failing to send in their NK. If they send in nothing, they should get nothing.

 

[Zalak]

but making the punishment a randomized kill is where that comes in. the mafia should be REQUIRED to kill, because that makes for stability in the structure of the game. one can argue that it becomes a matter of taking that into consideration in the moment, but getting a false bingo on an rb because the mafia didnt kill is ridiculous.

I kind of like the idea of the mafia being able to intentionally send in no night kill.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nah, I really don't see that. I absolutely understand salt at the fact that it was unintentional on our part, I agree that that sucked, but the mafia chosing to not NK to attempt to frame someone is an incredibly risky play but I don't think it should be outlawed because players want their items or roles to be more important then they are. You don't allow cops without counters so you can't bingo a mafia player without argument, the same should be for the RB.

The counter to RB is to not send it in with a single member of your mafia team that is getting Roleblocked. You can send it in with any of the others.

 

[Maven89]

It's not about stopping the RB, it's about making it so the RB can't guarantee a person's alignment

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Then what is with the cop parallel? The counter play to getting copped is "don't get copped" or role block or otherwise **** with the cop. Godfather is a ******* role that shouldn't exist, but even with that parallel, there is a role modifier like Godfather called "Ninja" that cannot be role blocked. What counters are you discussing for cop that would merit such equivalent treatment.

 

[Jdietz43]

Lucky breaks aside, I'm proud of my traitor play this game.

I think I did a marvelous job of covering up for what by all accounts was an extremely bad Nabe opening and giving him a 'friendly' shoulder to lean on to "explain himself" until he was no longer a surefire lynch. Maven protected himself just fine so I simply refused to speak of him.

I'm also glad I could mind-read Nabe and Maven enough to assume they'd make the competent choice to target Ryker as being likely unable to protect himself and so to ensure it even when I missed my opportunity to claim during Twilight and ensure them their shot would be free and that I was on their side.

The other line of play would have been to pre-emptively assume I would be able to be present for Twilight and block Kursed from being protected, leaving Nabe as the only one with money to purchase items left and a 100% gauranteed lock no matter what items appeared. But I decided not to in favor of getting the block down on Ryker before he would make up his mind on who to protect.

@ ~ Gheb ~ I'm curious if any of my night actions had an effect on things or not. What were the actions by people throughout the game?

@ Maven89 @#HBC | Nabe Also out of curiosity, did my dropping of an oddly worded "only traitor knows who he is right now I think" get through to either of you around D2 and/or did you guess that I was traitor, or was not targetting me simply good luck/a result of the fact I never tried to elevate myself over "mildly scummy"?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I did protect myself, for the record.

 

[Jdietz43]

I did protect myself, for the record.

Got 'em!

 

[Maven89]

Then what is with the cop parallel? The counter play to getting copped is "don't get copped" or role block or otherwise **** with the cop. Godfather is a ******* role that shouldn't exist, but even with that parallel, there is a role modifier like Godfather called "Ninja" that cannot be role blocked. What counters are you discussing for cop that would merit such equivalent treatment.

We never seem to allow any role that can gurantee a bingo without any way out. I mean it's why cops are rarely even in this game, and when they are there is something else to counter it, so players can't just "follow the cop".

 

[Maven89]

@ Maven89 @#HBC | Nabe Also out of curiosity, did my dropping of an oddly worded "only traitor knows who he is right now I think" get through to either of you around D2 and/or did you guess that I was traitor, or was not targetting me simply good luck/a result of the fact I never tried to elevate myself over "mildly scummy"?

I 100% thought Kursed was the traitor, I believe Nabe thought this as well but as time went on he became less sure and was wondering about Orbo. I don't think any of us ever thought it was you.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Alex, for real, I was trying to give you a chance to convince me you were town and you just kept insulting me. But we talked about it.

Whatever. I'm just glad someone finally played this slot.

When you walk into a thread and spend the entire time ******** about replacing or insulting me back, I'm not buying it. Just because I look like **** isn't a license for you to act the way you did. That's why I acted like that.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I kind of like the idea of the mafia being able to intentionally send in no night kill.

I don't, for obvious reasons.

@ ~ Gheb ~ I'm mostly salty that you neglected to include that into the rules. It turned a reasonable situation that could've been fixed, read, or explored into a no-win scenario for town. That blunder had a massive effect on the game, my personal stances about mafia not killing aside.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nah, I really don't see that. I absolutely understand salt at the fact that it was unintentional on our part, I agree that that sucked, but the mafia chosing to not NK to attempt to frame someone is an incredibly risky play but I don't think it should be outlawed because players want their items or roles to be more important then they are. You don't allow cops without counters so you can't bingo a mafia player without argument, the same should be for the RB.

Take it from another point of view: it completely ruins Mylo scenarios by forcing town into lynching due to mafia getting to choose not to nk.

 

[Maven89]

Honestly I never realized this was a thing, I always assumed mafia could no kill if they wanted. I think I might have even made posts about it in early games.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

There's a lot of ways town can get ****ed over by an intentional no kill. Like gorf said, that kill is necessary for the stability of the game. Not having it, for whatever reason, messes with that and it should.be explicitly and boldly stated in the rules if mafia can avoid killing

 

[Maven89]

Oh well.

http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LZWQqK8J6PBuE our greenroom. Please ignore the part where I got angry at Gheb for my own mistake

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

We never seem to allow any role that can gurantee a bingo without any way out. I mean it's why cops are rarely even in this game, and when they are there is something else to counter it, so players can't just "follow the cop".

Rarely do we have this bare bones a set-up either. You cannot be certain of a roleblock bingo in a closed set-up because of the presence of possible doc, jailer, BP, redirector, etc.

Also, to say that they are never in a game without something to counter them is a blatant lie. I make it a point many times to include 1-shot cop for a clear for town in set-ups without a Godfather or roleblocker.

Having an entire scum team to be able to send in the kill should protect them from the roleblocker and if you think it is still OP to get a bingo in your set-up make them a jailer so you could have protected them or make the factional kill unblockable.

Spending entire games looking at any lack of flip and having to play WIFOM about whether it was an intentional No Kill is not fun. The basic tennats of the game are town lynches someone, Mafia kills someone, repeat until victors are determined. You can't choose not to kill offline for a reason.