Gheb's crazy auction mafia | Game over, Mafia wins

[Zalak]

You were scrambling around pri hard after laundry came in yesterday with his info and you don't look good off of it

after he came in yesterday with what info -what

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

No, I didn't. It was possible that Zalak was scum looking for a traitor, which would 100% result in me getting shot, so I eliminated the possibility altogether.

That'd result in you getting shot if he found the traitor. Why did you automatically reach the conclusion that he would find it in your neighborhood?

No. Zalak made the traitor claim 9 hours after saying in-thread that he thought me and Jay were the mafia. Then, about 18 hours after his traitor claim, I posted in the thread. I'm not sure why the timing matters, though; I didn't give it a lengthy think, I just read it with my morning coffee and applied common sense.

Because if you believed he was town, then your reason for claiming it goes out the ****ing window. Your driving motive that you keep calling back to is that you feared the NK, but if you realized that Zalak was likely town, then there was no basis for that fear and then no basis for revealing that Neighborhood.

The consideration is IN the quicktopic. The analysis is the same post in the QT as me saying I'm going to out the neighbourhood, which I decided to do AFTER coming to a conclusion. There was no spooking involved.

see above

Yes -- that's the lie. There is NO SENSE for that play in the set-up, and as such, it never could have possibly occurred to you that I would play that way. Thus, you are lying.

You're right, there is no sense for that play in that set-up, hence why I told you I would lynch you if I saw it. You are automatically assuming that I not only considered but knew for a fact that you wouldn't play like that when that is not the case. Your basis for your lie comes not from me but from yourself and you are trying to set me up as scum as a result.

I have no reason to think that you roleblocked your partner. You are scum. Jay's alignment is irrelevant to that conclusion, because the conclusion's single driving point is a lie you've made with no possible town motivation and no admission of the lie.

That's not how this works and you know that.

 

[Zalak]

I have no reason to think that you roleblocked your partner. You are scum. Jay's alignment is irrelevant to that conclusion, because the conclusion's single driving point is a lie you've made with no possible town motivation and no admission of the lie.

I was okay with this post until here. What makes Laundry scum? How could you possibly be so sure?

 

[Zalak]

Because if you believed he was town, then your reason for claiming it goes out the ****ing window. Your driving motive that you keep calling back to is that you feared the NK, but if you realized that Zalak was likely town, then there was no basis for that fear and then no basis for revealing that Neighborhood.

I get that Nabe looks scummy to you, but you're being unreasonable. I would also out the neighborhood in Nabe's situation. I wouldn't want that information to stay secret. Even if Nabe didn't have a solid reason to think they would die last night, they might not have had a solid reason to think they wouldn't.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I get that Nabe looks scummy to you, but you're being unreasonable. I would also out the neighborhood in Nabe's situation. I wouldn't want that information to stay secret. Even if Nabe didn't have a solid reason to think they would die last night, they might not have had a solid reason to think they wouldn't.

See, that's the thing, I get why he'd wanna out someone claiming traitor in his neighborhood, but him coming to the conclusion you were town (not traitor) is what throws me off. He claimed it because he feared the NK but if he thought the guy who could've been scum there was town as a result, that fear shouldn't have existed. If he feared someone in the neighborhood being scum, then you should've been the one NKed, not him, as you were the one who started the neighborhood and were the one with a potential traitor claim, not him. His stated goals don't make sense with the situation at hand.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: "If he feared someone in the neighborhood being scum, then you should've been the one NKed, not him, as you were the one who started the neighborhood and were the one with a potential traitor claim, not him" and therefore that fear shouldn't have existed. Scum can't NKill both you and the other guy. His situation only makes sense in a town-traitor-mafia 'hood, but given that he said you were town and he naturally will claim town himself, none of his reasons justify his purpose for claiming it, because any fear of an NK without that information getting out would've been bogus.

 

[Zalak]

I still have some doubts, but it's not my place to defend Nabe right now... don't wanna give him an easy ride.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I can understand it if it were a kneejerk reaction with Nabe trying to play it safe but that's not the case:

The consideration is IN the quicktopic. The analysis is the same post in the QT as me saying I'm going to out the neighbourhood, which I decided to do AFTER coming to a conclusion. There was no spooking involved.

Nabe already denied that angle. This is a measured response Nabe took to it, so, no, I don't think I'm being unreasonable. His reasons don't justify his actions.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The thing I'm left wondering is if it's actually scummy or not. I can't see what town!Nabe gets out of it, but I legitimately don't really understand what scum!Nabe would want either. Townie points, maybe, or time to get a play off. No matter what he says, nobody's read on you changed as of this action and because his only read we have on paper is on me, I can't buy him saying "I suspected Zalak before he did this" as there's no proof of that. I legitimately cannot tell what he was trying to get at as either alignment as the real information we got out of that was who you targeted.

I wanted to make a point out of Jay dodging the ever loving **** out of the quicktopic showing that he's likely not scum with Nabe but that's nothing I can prove and even then, it's possibly just as likely that Jay simply watched the quicktopic at the request of his scummate (who could be anyone, even Nabe). The only real information I get is that's extra validation that Jay is scum because why else would he dodge a neighborhood with at least one townie in it?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: Townie points, maybe, or time to get a play off, but neither are anything of which I can be certain so I can't really condemn him for making that play.

Either way:

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: "I can't see what town!Nabe gets out of it,"

And before (or after) Nabe claims "well I get this, this, and this out of it":
-You didn't alter anyone else's read on Zalak so if you're being honest that you suspected him, that only influenced your own read, which didn't require you to claim
-You claiming that you were in the neighborhood increased your chances of getting NK, not decreasing it, in every scenario except town-traitor-mafia or town-mafia-mafia.
-That information could've been gotten from Zalak as legitimately anyone could've confirmed if Zalak was lying or not.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That'd result in you getting shot if he found the traitor. Why did you automatically reach the conclusion that he would find it in your neighborhood?

I didn't? As I said, it was a possibility. That is a fact and has nothing to do with my read on Zalak. Reads aren't cop reports. They're fallible. If Zalak hadn't been new, if it had been me as mafia trying to signal a traitor, I would have claimed traitor in that situation to make that happen.

Because if you believed he was town, then your reason for claiming it goes out the ****ing window. Your driving motive that you keep calling back to is that you feared the NK, but if you realized that Zalak was likely town, then there was no basis for that fear and then no basis for revealing that Neighborhood.

As stated, it had nothing to do with my read on Zalak, and everything to do with ensuring that that outcome was avoided. It had nothing to do with fear. Outing the traitor claim and neighbourhood had no setbacks, and a very specific potential for managing a risk.

You're right, there is no sense for that play in that set-up, hence why I told you I would lynch you if I saw it. You are automatically assuming that I not only considered but knew for a fact that you wouldn't play like that when that is not the case.

You warned me against using a "nebulous" playstyle where I flirt with whether I'm a PR or mafia. Therefore, you absolutely considered and knew that I would not play that way, because you knew the circumstances of the setup (there are no hidden PRs). And if, in some impossible way, you didn't know for a fact that I wouldn't play like that, then we come back to the addendum I made in D1: if you thought it was possible for me to choose to play that way, then you think I'm a moron. But you already denied that, so it's not on the table.

That's not how this works and you know that.

Actually, that is exactly how it works. My stance is that your lie is a scumslip, inherently and unequivocally scummy. The alignment of Jay has no bearing on that, at all. None.

As further proof of that irrelevance, here's potential motives for you, with Jay as either faction. If Jay is scum, it's a bus on your part to avoid the blame for a bad Gorf mislynch. Jay flipping scum on your word as a known roleblocker means no one will look at you until endgame, at least. Alternatively, if Jay flips town, your faction somehow didn't make an NK last Night, maybe a deadline ****-up. Either way, it has nothing to do with the slip in question.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

-You didn't alter anyone else's read on Zalak so if you're being honest that you suspected him, that only influenced your own read, which didn't require you to claim
-You claiming that you were in the neighborhood increased your chances of getting NK, not decreasing it, in every scenario except town-traitor-mafia or town-mafia-mafia.
-That information could've been gotten from Zalak as legitimately anyone could've confirmed if Zalak was lying or not.

- I don't think I've ever said that I suspect Zalak. I don't, he's a strong townread.
- I disabled a single situation in which I was 100% going to get shot. That situation also happens to be the only situation in which it would be likely for me to be shot. You laid it out very plainly yesterDay; priority for scum's shot is you with two roles, then Zalak after I outed his claim. You're not scum with Zalak, so I expected one of you to be shot.
- In the situation where I get shot by scum!Zalak, why would he then tell people that in the QT I raised the possibility of him being scum?

 

[Zalak]

- I don't think I've ever said that I suspect Zalak. I don't, he's a strong townread./quote]

What makes your town read of me so STRONG?

 

[Zalak]

foiled again

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I was okay with this post until here. What makes Laundry scum? How could you possibly be so sure?

1) He lied.
2a) He hasn't admitted to that lie.
2b) There is no motivation for a town!Laundry to make that lie.

@ townread on you, you're a relatively new player who made a dumb traitor claim, with motive backed up by a post you made prior to that in thread. That looks town, especially beside the process of elimination argument I made where you're not a traitor. From there, I identified a single possible motive for you to claim traitor as mafia, which I don't think you did due to your lack of experience. General town vibes throughout as well.

 

[Zalak]

.......tch

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nabe or Zalak? I find Nabe still scummy as ****. Zalak being traitor is less likely but frankly, I stopped giving a **** as soon as he started arguing with me. I don't care for the traitor as killing it helps scum.

Two things.

1) I think you are putting your eggs all in one basket.

2) do you think there is no situation Nabe would claim like he did. I think it is possible as town and I could see myself maybe doing similar.

Let change focus, what do you got after Nabe and Jay?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If nabe v laundry is town v town, still very possible, I'm going to strangle myself.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1) He lied.
2a) He hasn't admitted to that lie.
2b) There is no motivation for a town!Laundry to make that lie.

@ townread on you, you're a relatively new player who made a dumb traitor claim, with motive backed up by a post you made prior to that in thread. That looks town, especially beside the process of elimination argument I made where you're not a traitor. From there, I identified a single possible motive for you to claim traitor as mafia, which I don't think you did due to your lack of experience. General town vibes throughout as well.

What if Laundry is town?

See I think since day 1 you two have this tunnel mindset I think you both need to slightly step back from.

 

[Zalak]

I find it slightly suspicious that Jay would like that post..

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I find it slightly suspicious that Jay would like that post..

Of course you do.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I find it slightly suspicious that Jay would like that post..

You even Liked the post yourself? Good heavens, lol.

 

[Zalak]

You even Liked the post yourself? Good heavens, lol.

Well it sounded reasonable, but the fact that you liked it casts some suspicion on Nabe.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

What if Laundry is town?

See I think since day 1 you two have this tunnel mindset I think you both need to slightly step back from.

There is no motivation for a town!Laundry to make that lie.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Well it sounded reasonable, but the fact that you liked it casts some suspicion on Nabe.

If I wanted Nabe to stop tunneling Laundry, I could tell him so in our PM. I don't follow that logic.

 

[Zalak]

If I wanted Nabe to stop tunneling Laundry, I could tell him so in our PM. I don't follow that logic.

It seems like you're trying to support the idea that Laundry vs Nabe is TvT

 

[JayTheUnseen]

It seems like you're trying to support the idea that Laundry vs Nabe is TvT

Whether they are TvT or not, the tunneling needs to stop.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

There is no motivation for a town!Laundry to make that lie.

This is not the response I was hoping for.

Other than Laundry, who else?

 

[Maven89]

Nabe and Kursed can die after jay

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

- I don't think I've ever said that I suspect Zalak. I don't, he's a strong townread.

You didn't, but there was zero way of knowing that.

- I disabled a single situation in which I was 100% going to get shot. That situation also happens to be the only situation in which it would be likely for me to be shot. You laid it out very plainly yesterDay; priority for scum's shot is you with two roles, then Zalak after I outed his claim. You're not scum with Zalak, so I expected one of you to be shot.

I said that Zalak was likely to get shot because he was widely townread--your claim didn't really do much of anything, he was widely townread prior to the fact to my knowledge.

- In the situation where I get shot by scum!Zalak, why would he then tell people that in the QT I raised the possibility of him being scum?

Jay is chop suey?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Two things.

1) I think you are putting your eggs all in one basket.

Nabe is not my only other suspect.

Let change focus, what do you got after Nabe and Jay?

Maven, given that I am skeptical of him pushing Kursed as the town traitor as his primary lynch. Dietz is free from this skepticism as I don't think he either knows or cares because he just finds Kursed scummy and wants him dead.
I'd look more into Orbo because I've paid far too little attention to that slot but I don't know if he's legitimately scummy.
And I am rather concerned by your lack of input this game and how much you seem to be playing both sides rather than finding scum.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You warned me against using a "nebulous" playstyle where I flirt with whether I'm a PR or mafia. Therefore, you absolutely considered and knew that I would not play that way, because you knew the circumstances of the setup (there are no hidden PRs). And if, in some impossible way, you didn't know for a fact that I wouldn't play like that, then we come back to the addendum I made in D1: if you thought it was possible for me to choose to play that way, then you think I'm a moron. But you already denied that, so it's not on the table.

For the last time, I did not know or assume you wouldn't play like that. I warned against that because I wanted you not to be the guy in the background on everyone's null list. That's what I meant by "nebulous" play because that's how you play when you are playing the PR/Mafia game. I don't think you're a moron. I think you're a snake.

Actually, that is exactly how it works. My stance is that your lie is a scumslip, inherently and unequivocally scummy. The alignment of Jay has no bearing on that, at all. None.

My stance is that you are either in one hell of a tunnel too afraid to see the light or scum reaching far too hard to lynch me over something ultimately meaningless.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nabe is not my only other suspect.


Maven, given that I am skeptical of him pushing Kursed as the town traitor as his primary lynch. Dietz is free from this skepticism as I don't think he either knows or cares because he just finds Kursed scummy and wants him dead.
I'd look more into Orbo because I've paid far too little attention to that slot but I don't know if he's legitimately scummy.
And I am rather concerned by your lack of input this game and how much you seem to be playing both sides rather than finding scum.

You and Nabe is hard to nail down.

I feel a strong sense of clashing ego's which is the big problem for me outside of who is more valid in your back and forth. I'm more confident in you being town at this point, but Nabe still pushing you is odd to even me.

But I'm not sue this isn't town motivated, Nabe has done summarily to me in past games.

 

[Kursed]

Nabe and Kursed can die after jay

Holy **** Maven piss off!

 

[Kursed]

K maven i'm super suspicious of you.

Not because you're hammering me that's fine. Jdietz was doing it and i didn't mind. But you keep forwarding it backing it up by "this is how he played in jaytheunseens digital mafia."
That is a lie. I never once claimed mafia in that game, and even being mafia I wouldn't experiment strategies to the point of being lynched.

 

[Maven89]

nah i never said that

 

[Kursed]

I'm pretty positive I saw you use other games as evidence. (again)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

##HBC | Nabe Quote me the lie and the proof it's a lie.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

EBWOP: @ #HBC | Nabe