Geno's Bizarre Adventure part 2: Stardust Crusaders (Geno Support Thread #2)

[Icewolff92]

Plenty of Japanese companies appealed to west more than Japan. Capcom and Namco did.
Massively requested and former Nintendo are just trying to fit after they got in. You wouldn't have believed Banjo would've made in before Phil's approval. I bet you never thought those reasoning mattered before Banjo's inclusion. It's more akin to revisionist history.

Let's face it. Banjo isn't that much more popular or famous than Halo in Japan. Actually, Ridley and Little Mac are far worse offenders to Japanese than Chief would be. Why reject potential 10 million new audience just because of Japan? Especially MS seems to be easier to work with than Disney or Activision?

While Banjo might not be as popular in Japan, he does has his fans in Japan. On top of that, Banjo benefited from having his connection to Nintendo. Would Banjo have started as a Microsoft-owned property, we would more than likely never have gotten him included.

And before you say "Western gets more sales".... you know what they garner more money from? Merchandise? And where do they focus the merchandise the most? Over in Japan. The Octoling Sisters has literal concerts where people join in with glowsticks singing along with them, and Fire Emblem recently got their own "comic con", with them starting a Kirby-themed Cafe in Japan rather recently.

Edit - I forgot to mention. What country east everything Cloud vs Sepiroth related the most? Japan. What country did the sales spike for Xenoblade Chronicle 2 occur when they revealed Pyra & Mythra? Japan.

Let´s also look at the western created characters that have gotten into Ultimate, if you want to look at it from a Smash only perspective
King K Rool
Dark Samus
Steve
Banjo Kazooie

Only Banjo & Kazooie and Steve are from the western created IPs. The one that is the most beloved around the globe (Steve) got costumes with him from his own franchise, whereas Banjo (the more popular in the west) didn´t even get a Rarely related costume. Banjo & Kazooie and Steve is 2 out of 80+ characters

Of the "premiums" only the ones that are beloved world wide (Sans and Cuphead) got songs where as the one (Vaultboy) got nothing. And with 300+ costumes, only 5(Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, and Vaultboy) are created by western companies.

So the whole notion that Nintendo is prioritizing Japan over the western market is there for a reason and it's as real as some might not like it to be.
I´m not saying that Chief can´t get in (although I highly doubt this at this point) but if you look at how Nintendo has approached their choices of characters, them handling their businesses etc... it makes sense to be skeptical due to their current behavior.

Are those really "Japan-bias" though?

You are forgetting a key ingredient here with Ridley. A) They own Riddley so it's easier to include the character B) There is more often than they throw hardcore bones during base game C) With the restarting and not canceling Metroid Prime 4 and they now are about to release Metroid 5, it's clear that Nintendo wants to push the Metroid franchise again. So including Ridley is a good way of doing marketing it.

 

[Shroob]

While Banjo might not be as popular in Japan, he does has his fans in Japan. On top of that, Banjo benefited from having his connection to Nintendo. Would Banjo have started as a Microsoft-owned property, we would more than likely never have gotten him included.

And before you say "Western gets more sales".... you know what they garner more money from? Merchandise? And where do they focus the merchandise the most? Over in Japan. The Octoling Sisters has literal concerts where people join in with glowsticks singing along with them, and Fire Emblem recently got their own "comic con", with them starting a Kirby-themed Cafe in Japan rather recently.

Let´s also look at the western created characters that have gotten into Ultimate, if you want to look at it from a Smash only perspective
King K Rool
Dark Samus
Steve
Banjo Kazooie

Only Banjo & Kazooie and Steve are from the western created IPs. The one that is the most beloved around the globe (Steve) got costumes with him from his own franchise, whereas Banjo (the more popular in the west) didn´t even get a Rarely related costume. Banjo & Kazooie and Steve is 2 out of 80+ characters

Of the "premiums" only the ones that are beloved world wide (Sans and Cuphead) got songs where as the one (Vaultboy) got nothing. And with 300+ costumes, only 5(Sans, Cuphead, Altair, Rabbids, and Vaultboy) are created by western companies.

So the whole notion that Nintendo is prioritizing Japan over the western market is there for a reason and it's as real as some might not like it to be.
I´m not saying that Chief can´t get in (although I highly doubt this at this point) but if you look at how Nintendo has approached their choices of characters, them handling their businesses etc... it makes sense to be skeptical due to their current behavior.



You are forgetting a key ingredient here with Ridley. A) They own Riddley so it's easier to include the character B) There is more often than they throw hardcore bones during base game C) With the restarting and not canceling Metroid Prime 4 and they now are about to release Metroid 5, it's clear that Nintendo wants to push the Metroid franchise again. So including Ridley is a good way of doing marketing it.

Oh no, I 100% agree with you. It's just Metroid has kinda historically been a more west-leaning franchise. I remember how when E3 2018 hit, the Japanese side of the fanbase dubbed RIdley "Captain America", lol.

 

[AugustusB]

Well well, with only one fighter left in the pass, I think it is time that I step back into here and buckle up for the last ride. That being said, how is everyone doing!? Any crazy speculation going on?

 

[Icewolff92]

Oh no, I 100% agree with you. It's just Metroid has kinda historically been a more west-leaning franchise. I remember how when E3 2018 hit, the Japanese side of the fanbase dubbed RIdley "Captain America", lol.

Sure, but Ridley is still not in the same position as like let say Master Chief because Ridley is a creation of Nintendo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Bomberman is the last Premium costume, but otherwise, yeah. The whole idea Smash isn't Japan-centric is silly. That's the core demographic. It's just good that Sakurai doesn't try to make it nothing but Japanese IP's and characters.

It appeals to all parts of the world. Smash wasn't even planned to come out of Japan either at first(and this is after Smash 64 was turned into Nintendo characters). And then Marth and Roy weren't going to hit the international versions. Ouch. You can also notice that the Japanese Smash versions can have certain features(even language select) that others don't. In the end, the Japan part is clearly given a bias to in multiple ways.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I think he’ll be base in the next game.

 

[Icewolff92]

Bomberman is the last Premium costume, but otherwise, yeah. The whole idea Smash isn't Japan-centric is silly. That's the core demographic. It's just good that Sakurai doesn't try to make it nothing but Japanese IP's and characters.

It appeals to all parts of the world. Smash wasn't even planned to come out of Japan either at first(and this is after Smash 64 was turned into Nintendo characters). And then Marth and Roy weren't going to hit the international versions. Ouch. You can also notice that the Japanese Smash versions can have certain features(even language select) that others don't. In the end, the Japan part is clearly given a bias to in multiple ways.

To be perfectly honest, I forgot about the Bomberman costume xD

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be perfectly honest, I forgot about the Bomberman costume xD

It doesn't help that unlike the rest, it's just an updated AT model instead of an all new model added, so it's easy to forget.

...Seriously, why couldn't that come with music? Vault Boy I get, since Fallout has a lot of odd copyrighted music, but.

 

[ForsakenM]

Hey guys, so I'm going to be gone for a whole week, and it's a doozy of a week to celebrate my birthday and visit out of state and see as many people as I can in a short amount of time. We will be leaving early tomorrow morning, so I wanted to leave something here for you guys before I go.

Remember that Sakurai and his team were able to able to get all of FP1 revealed and released by Jan 2020 when actual programming and coding didn't start until after the game went gold in Nov 2018.

Now factor in that there were some sort of delays and it seems like they were originally aiming for all of FP1 to be released by the end of 2019.

Now factor in that FP2 content started development sometime in Summer or 2019, likely July.

Now factor in that the date of having FP2 fully revealed and release by the end of 2021 was a decision made in 2019.

Now factor in that only releasing three characters in 2020 was part of the plan, and that COVID was never a consideration since it only starting tearing things asunder in 2020 not 2019.

Now realize that companies like Capcom, ArcSys and Bamco have all done DLC for their own games which require more work as the games are more complex in design then Smash, and they either have a better release schedule or a similar one to FP2's release schedule.

What reason would Nintendo have to approve such a long release schedule when it's literally just a single Challenger Pack more than FP1 and that was nearly done in a year? Why would Sakurai, who has been enjoying himself sense the DLC started, suddenly go against his work ethic and their pace for seemingly no reason? Nintendo always does a digital presentation at E3, and Sakurai's team was one of those least affected by the pandemic rules, but nothing really showed up worth noting in Summer 2020...why? They have had the opportunity to have the entirety of FP2 revealed and even released multiple times now, but they have chosen not to...why? Why does it seem like Sakurai and his team are suddenly behind schedule and struggling to keep up after the transition from FP1 to FP2?

And lastly...why is FP2, a pass that contains six Challenger Packs that so far have ALL had less additional content brought with them than FP1, taking as long to fully reveal and release as Base Game Ultimate...which brought back all the veterans, fully remade old stages, had WoL being made, all the base game Spirits, other modes like Smashdown, and of course all the new characters and stages...AND was a heavily-rushed product with many cuts made and ideas left on the cutting room floor?

I'd like to see all my Geno Bro's thoughts on the matter. As long as it's not overly toxic, I wouldn't even mind this being brought up in the Newcomer Thread really, but I know it likely would be and I doubt there would be much actual discussion.

 

[Megadoomer]

And lastly...why is FP2, a pass that contains six Challenger Packs that so far have ALL had less additional content brought with them than FP1, taking as long to fully reveal and release as Base Game Ultimate...which brought back all the veterans, fully remade old stages, had WoL being made, all the base game Spirits, other modes like Smashdown, and of course all the new characters and stages...AND was a heavily-rushed product with many cuts made and ideas left on the cutting room floor?

Covid seems like it would play a pretty big part in why. Also, six characters, spread out roughly three months apart (similar delays between reveals were the case even for FP1, from what I recall, and even for Smash 4's DLC, there was a huge gap between Ryu and Cloud's releases - Ryu came out in June, and Cloud came out in December), means that bare minimum, the reveals would take 18 months (a year and a half) to go through, and that's without taking delays from Covid into account.

 

[ForsakenM]

Covid seems like it would play a pretty big part in why. Also, six characters, spread out roughly three months apart (similar delays between reveals were the case even for FP1, from what I recall, and even for Smash 4's DLC, there was a huge gap between Ryu and Cloud's releases - Ryu came out in June, and Cloud came out in December), means that bare minimum, the reveals would take 18 months (a year and a half) to go through, and that's without taking delays from Covid into account.

But we already know COVID didn't really affect Sakurai and his team that much, otherwise more than one character would have been pushed back, but it was seemingly only Min Min even though it was clear they already planned on the gap between her initial release in April and Steve in October, since Steve was on time. I think that COVID delayed Steve's reveal for sure, but it's clear his release was not.

This also doesn't explain why Min Min took almost a full year to develop, since her development would have started in Summer of 2019 as Sakurai already told us they work on three characters at a time. There weren't any COVID restrictions in the Summer of 2019, and Sakurai's team was only minorly affected starting in February/March of 2020. Min Min, even with dev issues, should have been completed and ready for April by the standards the team has proven they were capable of, and it's clear that instead of just being quiet in March that them announcing an ARMS character despite already knowing for months which one it was that she was originally planned to be ready by then. So, what happened between Summer of 2019 and January of 2020 before COVID got that bad which made it that around seven months of dev time wasn't enough to finish her?

Also, Smash 4 isn't as good of an example, as originally they only planned on Mewtwo but then it was sprung on them to do more DLC and they also did less characters. They also introduced the veterans with Roy having a good chunk of him not needing to be fully remade from the ground up, and this was Sakurai's first dive into DLC so it was likely a learning experience. Smash 4 is a better comparison to FP1, and even then Sakurai was already starting on Ultimate around Cloud's reveal if not earlier, so it's not the best comparison.

To go deeper, Mewtwo was revealed to the public on Oct 23rd, 2014. So, suddenly Nintendo tells Sakurai to go and do more DLC near the end of 2014. Considering that he has to do all the negotiations for all the characters and then go about developing them at this point versus Sakurai and his team being told this in March of 2018 for Ultimate in which production of the base game was mostly done than not and would go gold in Nov of that year about 8 months later. Sakurai had from March to Nov of 2018 to do negotiations and then started work on the DLC in Nov, aiming to release them all in 2019. Smash 4 has Sakurai taking on both negotiations and design and development all suddenly in Oct 2014 and then also starting work on Ultimate sometime in mid-to-late 2015 (which likely means having to have all the character revealed and ready to release by the end of 2015) with this being his first experience doing DLC for Smash. Sakurai was much more inexperienced and time-crunched for Smash 4 then he has been for Ultimate, so of course he would go for less characters over a longer period and include ones that required less work.

The best comparison is FP1 to FP2, because it's the same team and thus would have the same pace and ethic. This is why all these discrepancies don't make sense,

 

[Shroob]

Covid seems like it would play a pretty big part in why. Also, six characters, spread out roughly three months apart (similar delays between reveals were the case even for FP1, from what I recall, and even for Smash 4's DLC, there was a huge gap between Ryu and Cloud's releases - Ryu came out in June, and Cloud came out in December), means that bare minimum, the reveals would take 18 months (a year and a half) to go through, and that's without taking delays from Covid into account.

Honestly, it 'feels' longer, but yeah, FP2 has more or less been perfectly on schedule with FP1's reveals.


The ONLY caveat was Min Min's whole "ARMS GUESSING GAME", but if you removed that from the equation, FP2 would be done by now, simply because it's kept pace with FP1's reveals, it only feels longer due to the dumb ARMS game. Roughly 2-3 months between characters, it's the ARMs game taking a 6 month blank spot that makes FP2 feel longer than it is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, it 'feels' longer, but yeah, FP2 has more or less been perfectly on schedule with FP1's reveals.


The ONLY caveat was Min Min's whole "ARMS GUESSING GAME", but if you removed that from the equation, FP2 would be done by now, simply because it's kept pace with FP1's reveals, it only feels longer due to the dumb ARMS game. Roughly 2-3 months between characters, it's the ARMs game taking a 6 month blank spot that makes FP2 feel longer than it is.

It looks more like it was done because Min Min couldn't release a lot sooner, so they capitalized on that to give ARMS a promotional boost. Min Min would've released the same since the issue was gameplay delays. We realistically were on the proper schedule still right now. If Min Min was sooner, then it just means Steve/Alex would've been E3, and Sephiroth would've finished off the year. They seem already rather intent on spreading it out as is.

Also, worth noting that Pass 1 was never meant to be done in a single year. Work for PP(which this one released at the same time as Pass 1) started early on, at least six months before release(or more. We at least knew it had data as of Sep 2018), which is why Joker took a while, suggesting he was not worked on at the same time as is. That, and I'm pretty sure we knew Joker, Hero, and BK were worked on at the same time? The finish date was told us as January 2020. They already had it in mind it wouldn't be a year minimum from the start. So if it wasn't for PP(which with the information we have, not personal theories, could've been chosen as soon as July 2017, when DLC as a whole was greenlit), maybe things would've gone a bit faster. I remember the rumor that Byleth might've been at TGA. That's actually plausible if things didn't go as fast as they could. If that happened, the ARMS guessing game would've be needed since Min Min would've released about 3 or 4 months later instead of 5, heh.

To say the least, the ARMS Guessing Game obviously had no effect on how development went. We were told in March issues happened with gameplay. It took two months to fix those. So Min Min was possibly going to be ready for March or May at the latest before that. COVID probably affected development a little, since it made communication slower. This might be why they're spread out more, cause the schedule was modified to include COVID-related problems. So it's on schedule still, just a complication was taken into account.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Hey guys, so I'm going to be gone for a whole week, and it's a doozy of a week to celebrate my birthday and visit out of state and see as many people as I can in a short amount of time. We will be leaving early tomorrow morning, so I wanted to leave something here for you guys before I go.

Remember that Sakurai and his team were able to able to get all of FP1 revealed and released by Jan 2020 when actual programming and coding didn't start until after the game went gold in Nov 2018.

Now factor in that there were some sort of delays and it seems like they were originally aiming for all of FP1 to be released by the end of 2019.

Now factor in that FP2 content started development sometime in Summer or 2019, likely July.

Now factor in that the date of having FP2 fully revealed and release by the end of 2021 was a decision made in 2019.

Now factor in that only releasing three characters in 2020 was part of the plan, and that COVID was never a consideration since it only starting tearing things asunder in 2020 not 2019.

Now realize that companies like Capcom, ArcSys and Bamco have all done DLC for their own games which require more work as the games are more complex in design then Smash, and they either have a better release schedule or a similar one to FP2's release schedule.

What reason would Nintendo have to approve such a long release schedule when it's literally just a single Challenger Pack more than FP1 and that was nearly done in a year? Why would Sakurai, who has been enjoying himself sense the DLC started, suddenly go against his work ethic and their pace for seemingly no reason? Nintendo always does a digital presentation at E3, and Sakurai's team was one of those least affected by the pandemic rules, but nothing really showed up worth noting in Summer 2020...why? They have had the opportunity to have the entirety of FP2 revealed and even released multiple times now, but they have chosen not to...why? Why does it seem like Sakurai and his team are suddenly behind schedule and struggling to keep up after the transition from FP1 to FP2?

And lastly...why is FP2, a pass that contains six Challenger Packs that so far have ALL had less additional content brought with them than FP1, taking as long to fully reveal and release as Base Game Ultimate...which brought back all the veterans, fully remade old stages, had WoL being made, all the base game Spirits, other modes like Smashdown, and of course all the new characters and stages...AND was a heavily-rushed product with many cuts made and ideas left on the cutting room floor?

I'd like to see all my Geno Bro's thoughts on the matter. As long as it's not overly toxic, I wouldn't even mind this being brought up in the Newcomer Thread really, but I know it likely would be and I doubt there would be much actual discussion.

I think it really just comes down to two things. They've reduced the size of the team working on the game relative to Pass 1 because they didn't need as many resources working on just Challenger Packs and Balance Updates versus the extra modes, and two, they created a further out deadline to basically cover for any delays so they wouldn't meet legal trouble. The December 2021 date was always about covering their own asses in case they ran into any delays and wasn't really supposed to be a timeline as much as just as a hard "release by date."

A smaller team probably couldn't work on as many things at once as the bigger team, and depending on when work for like Min Min properly started, it may have just taken them longer to get the ball rolling on Pass 2 properly causing the 6 months between Byleth and Min Min. Sakurai can work just as hard, but the smaller team just results in things getting finished more slowly regardless of how much Sakurai himself works.

And I also think Pass 2 was clearly decided to be the end of the line, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just staggered content to keep Smash "relevant" for more time since a Smash reveal is always a megaton announcement and you can have one bookend every single Direct if you want to and play the timing right.

I don't really think it's indicative of anything special beyond just Ultimate winding down and coming to a close with a smaller team that is only focused on challenger packs at this point and the occasional on Spirit Event or little update.

 

[Icewolff92]

I think it really just comes down to two things. They've reduced the size of the team working on the game relative to Pass 1 because they didn't need as many resources working on just Challenger Packs and Balance Updates versus the extra modes, and two, they created a further out deadline to basically cover for any delays so they wouldn't meet legal trouble. The December 2021 date was always about covering their own asses in case they ran into any delays and wasn't really supposed to be a timeline as much as just as a hard "release by date."

A smaller team probably couldn't work on as many things at once as the bigger team, and depending on when work for like Min Min properly started, it may have just taken them longer to get the ball rolling on Pass 2 properly causing the 6 months between Byleth and Min Min. Sakurai can work just as hard, but the smaller team just results in things getting finished more slowly regardless of how much Sakurai himself works.

And I also think Pass 2 was clearly decided to be the end of the line, so I wouldn't be surprised if they just staggered content to keep Smash "relevant" for more time since a Smash reveal is always a megaton announcement and you can have one bookend every single Direct if you want to and play the timing right.

I don't really think it's indicative of anything special beyond just Ultimate winding down and coming to a close with a smaller team that is only focused on challenger packs at this point and the occasional on Spirit Event or little update.

Yeah, it's more than likely just that they have a smaller team right now. At best they might give us some extra mode that they wanted to add on at the end that is missing from the previous game, but more fighters? Yeah .... no.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, it's more than likely just that they have a smaller team right now. At best they might give us some extra mode that they wanted to add on at the end that is missing from the previous game, but more fighters? Yeah .... no.

The closest thing I could imagine for extra context would be giving us the Destroyed Hyrule Castle stage that you fight Ganon on. I noticed they used it in Kazuya's trailer at the end for his Final Smash and I think something like that would be a nice extra at the end to give us since it's just sort of recoding an existing asset to appear on the Stage Select Screen. Ideally, I'd have loved to see the Rathalos boss fight arena, Destroyed Hyrule Castle, and Marx's realm turned into bonus stages actually along with a basic Boss Battles mode as well the Master Hand Smash from the end of World of Light added to the Mob Smash menu, but that'd be the absolute most generous content I could imagine and I'd imagine that'd be a fair amount of development time for assets already in the game for a small team. And even then, I just kind of suspect Sakurai used the tools he has to play on a modified version of the stage just for that shot of the final Smash in Kazuya's trailer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, it's more than likely just that they have a smaller team right now. At best they might give us some extra mode that they wanted to add on at the end that is missing from the previous game, but more fighters? Yeah .... no.

It's been confirmed we're getting zero new modes too.

...A mode update, even if it's a loophole abuse to find a way to kind of get a mode in? Sure. Like adding Master Hand to Century Smash is a loophole abuse since he's a full character, but by only being playable in that, he's not a "Character DLC" that's paid. It's free. Also why it has no chance, imo. Another would be taking Stage Creator and giving it the Targets from Target Test. This means you can create a Target Test again, while pretty clearly still saying it's "not a new mode".

For the record, I don't consider them remotely likely, though they'd be awesome. And MH is too unconventional and requires a huge amount of work, while not being plausible for most modes anyway. How is he going to get through the Race to the Finish without taking damage? His moves are telegraphed to target a Character too, so he can't gain points there(ironically the other versions of RTTF were doable if he worked by being able to float everywhere without being tied to a character). Special note; Master Hand in some games would always face the direction of the opposing character except with any moveset animations that work otherwise. Yes, he was doing this so early on that Ryu's "opponent face" gimmick(one of his, anyway) was already programmed into the game. In addition, he had a true Side B before Melee.

 

[Icewolff92]

DISCLAIMER, THIS IS NOT ME SAYING THAT IT WILL BE A POKEMON FOR THE LAST SPOT (EVEN IF IT WOULD NOT SUPRISE ME)


For those that still questioning Nintendo being Japan-focused within their marketing and all..... let me provided a recent example of why they are if the facts that have stated before are not enough. Here we have two pictures of the first Pikachu-themed airplane that will be for Japanese Airlines, they already have a Pokemon-themed bullet train, and that Pikachu plushie? That will be sold only in Japan.

And this is not pointing out the fact that the Japanese version of "Nintendo Land" is the first one that will open.

So you have to excuse people if people question if the likes of Master Chief, Crash, or Rayman even will have a chance considering their status in Japan in comparison to other IPs.

 

[Cahalan]

If we're still on the topic of why the heck FP2 took so long: Steve, and now Kazuya, are shaping up to be some of the most complicated 3rd Party Characters in the Pass.

COVID didn't help anything either. The devs said things were going smoothly after transitioning to remote work, so perhaps COVID's effect on dev time didn't hurt as much.

Still heavily doubt a 3rd fighters pass is happening, but it wouldn't hurt to be wrong on this one.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Okay, so I've been gone for a while (just life being life, nothing serious or bad happening), so I've had some time to pontificate on the state of the Geno For Smash movement.

I feel as though we should do work collectively to make fan works to make Geno more relevant in the eyes of the present, as it were, and that will solve a lot of our problems. The reason there are Geno haters in the first place is because they feel that because of the fact that the only game he had a major presence in was Super Mario RPG which came out in 1996 and that a character like that doesn't deserve a place on the Smash roster. Which we know is silly, but it's still something we should try to rectify on our own to demonstrate the appeal and the popularity of the character on his own merits instead of relying mainly on his (very very large) cult status to try to convince others.

Why don't we make a fan game? Not for profit or anything, and we can all get together and work on it behind closed doors to avoid nasty stuff like copyright claims and the like -- set up a private GitHub node or the free open-source equivalent, make a separate website to host downloads for it, whatever we gotta do.

Making a fangame would address the primary purpose of pushing to get Geno in Smash, seeing the character in quality games again, and would spread notoriety and make the character more popular in the eyes of people who were not exposed to SMRPG in the late 90's as a lot of us were. Spread the love to the next generation, as it were. And that can increase the pushback so that Geno stands a higher chance of making the roster either in later DLC or in the next Smash iteration.

It's worth a try. What do you say?

 

[Geno Boost]

Okay, so I've been gone for a while (just life being life, nothing serious or bad happening), so I've had some time to pontificate on the state of the Geno For Smash movement.

I feel as though we should do work collectively to make fan works to make Geno more relevant in the eyes of the present, as it were, and that will solve a lot of our problems. The reason there are Geno haters in the first place is because they feel that because of the fact that the only game he had a major presence in was Super Mario RPG which came out in 1996 and that a character like that doesn't deserve a place on the Smash roster. Which we know is silly, but it's still something we should try to rectify on our own to demonstrate the appeal and the popularity of the character on his own merits instead of relying mainly on his (very very large) cult status to try to convince others.

Why don't we make a fan game? Not for profit or anything, and we can all get together and work on it behind closed doors to avoid nasty stuff like copyright claims and the like -- set up a private GitHub node or the free open-source equivalent, make a separate website to host downloads for it, whatever we gotta do.

Making a fangame would address the primary purpose of pushing to get Geno in Smash, seeing the character in quality games again, and would spread notoriety and make the character more popular in the eyes of people who were not exposed to SMRPG in the late 90's as a lot of us were. Spread the love to the next generation, as it were. And that can increase the pushback so that Geno stands a higher chance of making the roster either in later DLC or in the next Smash iteration.

It's worth a try. What do you say?

regarding fanmade games Geno and Boshi have always been the most popular of the mods that bring SMRPG content to life again and i have seen that many times.
but i think if we are talking about an entire game i dont think nintendo or square will try to hunt us as both companies no longer care about SMRPG Original characters in fact there is an entire Boshi fanmade game online called Boshi Xventure which you can download and its still around to this day since 2005 https://mfgg.net/index.php?act=resdb&param=02&c=2&id=1999
however if we want some nintendo attention we could make a game for Geno on nintendo game builder garage on the switch seeing the capabilities of the amount of stuff we can do there.

 

[kiteinthesky]

regarding fanmade games Geno and Boshi have always been the most popular of the mods that bring SMRPG content to life again and i have seen that many times.
but i think if we are talking about an entire game i dont think nintendo or square will try to hunt us as both companies no longer care about SMRPG Original characters in fact there is an entire Boshi fanmade game online called Boshi Xventure which you can download and its still around to this day since 2005 https://mfgg.net/index.php?act=resdb&param=02&c=2&id=1999
however if we want some nintendo attention we could make a game for Geno on nintendo game builder garage on the switch seeing the capabilities of the amount of stuff we can do there.

I didn't actually think of that and that sounds like a really good idea. We 100% should.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Honestly, a fan game featuring Seven Stars characters, even if they are super underutilized, would probably also get shot down.

Just look at this, it was non-profit, it was merely a test demo at best... and yet it still got struck down.

Nintendo, why? That one 5chan leak on SE reps said your hesitant on bringing Geno to Smash because you see more of those requests than for a revival of Seven Stars, and yet when someone tries to show appreciation for the game in this way, you still strike it down, despite your insistence on never doing a proper follow up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Honestly, a fan game featuring Seven Stars characters, even if they are super underutilized, would probably also get shot down.

Just look at this, it was non-profit, it was merely a test demo at best... and yet it still got struck down.

Nintendo, why? That one 5chan leak on SE reps said your hesitant on bringing Geno to Smash because you see more of those requests than for a revival of Seven Stars, and yet when someone tries to show appreciation for the game in this way, you still strike it down, despite your insistence on never doing a proper follow up.

It might not just be Nintendo. Square-Enix also owns some of the characters. They already have proven to be difficult to work with just to re-release the game alone. It took a long time. Any remake, which could mean people will get that instead of their own game? That could cost the money down the line.

I'm not saying they should be doing this, but companies that want to keep using the IP or Game shutting down remakes does make sense. It's about business. Don't take chances. That, and Copyright laws are pretty ass. To take down fan stuff, you have to take down generally all things in order to have a good spot in court. Let one thing slide, and the court itself won't take you seriously. In other words, while they don't necessarily have to go after everything, they usually have to to actually win court cases. They're basically strangled here.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

It might not just be Nintendo. Square-Enix also owns some of the characters. They already have proven to be difficult to work with just to re-release the game alone. It took a long time. Any remake, which could mean people will get that instead of their own game? That could cost the money down the line.

I'm not saying they should be doing this, but companies that want to keep using the IP or Game shutting down remakes does make sense. It's about business. Don't take chances. That, and Copyright laws are pretty ass. To take down fan stuff, you have to take down generally all things in order to have a good spot in court. Let one thing slide, and the court itself won't take you seriously. In other words, while they don't necessarily have to go after everything, they usually have to to actually win court cases. They're basically strangled here.

I mean, I suppose that's fair, but it still somewhat feels like they're covering for their beliefs in that the talk is all just Geno for Smash, and nothing else with the character.

 

[QQS]

I still believe in Geno as CP#11 - F#82 or in a Bonus Pass or Bonus Character for those who bought FP1-FP2.

I know Smash has reached perfection already and Im happy with the roster, which have my beloved characters already, specially Toon Link, and Mega Man; though I would be extra happier with my last and eternal long requested character since I was a child. I played SMRPG having 6 or 7 years; and I grew up with every Smash, being Mega Man, Geno, Banjo, Skull Kid, Zero, Knuckles or Tails, my most wanted ever. I already got Rockman (my first with Geno) and Banjo. Rockman is epicness for me.

Here’s a picture of QQS holding SMRPG for the first time.

This game (and mostly for Geno) has the #1 spot in my heart about gaming childhood memories. Also my 2 fav franchise: Zelda - Mega Man.

So, to sum it all, that was at my 6-7 years age, now I’m about to turn 31 on 4thJuly. Geno still lives. Geno, whether or not being DLC in Smash, will NEVER be forgotten. And his chances of being playable are still out there.

GENO SHINES WITH THE STARS!

Fatmanonice papagenos Enigma735 Firox ForsakenM CannonStreak Geno Boost Icewolff92 Megadoomer SpiritOfRuin Heoj Nazyrus TerminalMontage R RetrogamerMax and ALL THE FAMILY!

 

[Icewolff92]

It might not just be Nintendo. Square-Enix also owns some of the characters. They already have proven to be difficult to work with just to re-release the game alone. It took a long time. Any remake, which could mean people will get that instead of their own game? That could cost the money down the line.

I'm not saying they should be doing this, but companies that want to keep using the IP or Game shutting down remakes does make sense. It's about business. Don't take chances. That, and Copyright laws are pretty ass. To take down fan stuff, you have to take down generally all things in order to have a good spot in court. Let one thing slide, and the court itself won't take you seriously. In other words, while they don't necessarily have to go after everything, they usually have to to actually win court cases. They're basically strangled here.

Calling copyright laws pretty ass is an understatement.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Calling copyright laws pretty ass is an understatement.

Being I make my own games and do care about them... I'm trying to be nice.

 

[Icewolff92]

Have you guys seen the leaked intro for Mario Golf Super Rus? It screams Gamecube era of Camelot

https://twitter.com/Deiji_Zeruda/status/1407288641270001667

 

[S1itchey]

Have you guys seen the leaked intro for Mario Golf Super Rus? It screams Gamecube era of Camelot

https://twitter.com/Deiji_Zeruda/status/1407288641270001667

Really brings me back to the opening of toadstool tour.

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

Now I’m thinking of the Smash Melee intro, music, cinematic and all. It’s weird that I have all of it capture in my brain still.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

I'd be really curious to know what you guys think about the ideas I'm about to share. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with copyright law but people sell custom SMRPG merch on places like Etsy and make custom clothing and so clearly we would still be able to increase awareness through means like that even if we can't make a game. I'm not artistically or computer efficient enough to do things like make custom artwork or make a game myself, but I have some ideas coming up I'm pretty excited about.

It seems as long as you make something of your own creation even if it features something you don't own the rights to there's certain loopholes like Etsy art and such that Nintendo/SE doesn't seem to pursue legally. So I'm piggybacking off this idea of own creation to propose making a game without actually making a game if you will.

What if we essentially made a screenplay for a SMRPG 2? Didn't actually make the game but people could contribute however the wanted. This could be in the form of creating layouts for level designs, designing characters and enemies, cataloguing new battle mechanics and party members and such, writing lore and storyline, creating a unique logo, coming up with the name of the game, etc. This allows us to have more creative freedom than just artwork so that more people are able to contribute in different ways. People wouldn't even have to follow the overarching story we'd be creating as a group they could create their own thing that's related to the project that could potentially be tied in but wouldn't necessarily have to be. We could find somewhere to post all of our content that is publicly visible so that people could follow along. This allows people to express themselves in mediums they are comfortable with and allows us to demonstrate our dedication as a fanbase publicly in a way that is not obnoxious to Nintendo nor would it inspire them to take any legal action since they couldn't since we're just being creative.

Really this would just require one person to be willing to be a point person to post and organize all of this content. I think this is a really cool idea because it allows everyone to participate in their own way.

Honestly, if it turns out we're really good at this as a group and there are enough people who are able to actually make a game maybe we could work as a group to create our own fanmade game that is its own thing like Bug Fables is to (good) Paper Mario.

 

[Geno Boost]

It’s important to remember Nintendo that shut down games that used the character they care about like Mario, Bowser, Peach, Samus, Link...etc
Nintendo are less likely to hunt and take down games that only uses obscure characters.
For example if we are trying to make a fan made sequel to SMRPG we should avoid using Mario, Goomba, Yoshi...etc and let the original characters of that game stay in other word make it Geno and Mallow owns game basically.

 

[SSGuy]

It’s important to remember Nintendo that shut down games that used the character they care about like Mario, Bowser, Peach, Samus, Link...etc
Nintendo are less likely to hunt and take down games that only uses obscure characters.
For example if we are trying to make a fan made sequel to SMRPG we should avoid using Mario, Goomba, Yoshi...etc and let the original characters of that game stay in other word make it Geno and Mallow owns game basically.

My only issue is that it feels rather incomplete without the Mario elements. It's hard to picture a stand alone game with them when they are apart of this universe and not some other dimension. Omitting Mario characters or creatures would feel like a huge elephant in the room. If something like Undertoad can exist without issues, then I believe there should be no issues working on a SMRPG fan games with the likes of Mario characters in them.

It would be really cool to see but I just do not have the drive or the time at the moment to come up with an idea or at least start it up.

 

[Geno Boost]

My only issue is that it feels rather incomplete without the Mario elements. It's hard to picture a stand alone game with them when they are apart of this universe and not some other dimension. Omitting Mario characters or creatures would feel like a huge elephant in the room. If something like Undertoad can exist without issues, then I believe there should be no issues working on a SMRPG fan games with the likes of Mario characters in them.

It would be really cool to see but I just do not have the drive or the time at the moment to come up with an idea or at least start it up.

Geno, The Smithy gang, Culex are not even from Mario’s planet so it’s easy to picture them somewhere else and the idea can be expanded such as meeting the higher authority of Geno there is many potential in this regarding where the story should continue if you think about it.
If Wario is able to stand on his own game without the Mario stuff then I am pretty sure Geno can as well

 

[kiteinthesky]

Geno, The Smithy gang, Culex are not even from Mario’s planet so it’s easy to picture them somewhere else and the idea can be expanded such as meeting the higher authority of Geno there is many potential in this regarding where the story should continue if you think about it.
If Wario is able to stand on his own game without the Mario stuff then I am pretty sure Geno can as well

I find it hard to imagine we couldn't just make a game where the Paper Mario Star Spirits are running the Star Road/Star Haven and Geno's just one of the stars that works up there. Given how he is in SMRPG, he could probably be one of those types of stars that grants the "harder" wishes -- the ones that require direct intervention or a little bit of "oomph" here and there. Aiding wish-makers with crises, hunting down and taking out other entities that threaten the Star Road and Mario's world that Mario isn't aware of/capable of fighting on his own, that sort of thing.

We could go a looooooong way toward explaining where those Ztar things from Mario Party 5 came from, if we made them an enemy to the Stars in the Star Road. That wouldn't be a bad plot, to have them try to take over.

We could come up with a satisfactory explanation for where Smithy et al. even ****ing came from. What, what dimension were they even in at the end of SMRPG?

 

[SSGuy]

I find it hard to imagine we couldn't just make a game where the Paper Mario Star Spirits are running the Star Road/Star Haven and Geno's just one of the stars that works up there. Given how he is in SMRPG, he could probably be one of those types of stars that grants the "harder" wishes -- the ones that require direct intervention or a little bit of "oomph" here and there. Aiding wish-makers with crises, hunting down and taking out other entities that threaten the Star Road and Mario's world that Mario isn't aware of/capable of fighting on his own, that sort of thing.

We could go a looooooong way toward explaining where those Ztar things from Mario Party 5 came from, if we made them an enemy to the Stars in the Star Road. That wouldn't be a bad plot, to have them try to take over.

We could come up with a satisfactory explanation for where Smithy et al. even ****ing came from. What, what dimension were they even in at the end of SMRPG?

It's funny that you mention Ztars because they actually made their debut in SMRPG before the Mario Party series, which they are mostly known for.

If you wanted to tie in SMRPG with a possible sequel, one idea would be Bowser coming across Ztars during the rebuilding of his keep only to generate/collect enough once some time has passed and he is ready to unleash something more powerful than he anticipated, causing him to lose control of the very thing he wanted to take over the Mushroom Kingdom with on his return. Very Crash 2 intro sounding but definitely would be cool way to incorporate Ztars.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

Honestly, with the Deluxe Geno costume mod from Sean Hicks, I love it for being more faithful to his true appearance, but it also sucks because I have a patched Switch, and unless I were to somehow get another one that's capable of being modded, I have no way to get to fully enjoy it.

 

[QQS]

You were invited to Sakurai’s home and you open Sakurai’s drawer. You find another “blue doll possessed Hero” between those 2 Heroes. It’s the official Geno keychain from SMRPG 1996. It means he is next as CP#11-Fighter#82.

What’s your reaction?

 

[Urso_Ornitier]

You were invited to Sakurai’s home and you open Sakurai’s drawer. You find another “blue doll possessed Hero” between those 2 Heroes. It’s the official Geno keychain from SMRPG 1996. It means he is next as CP#11-Fighter#82.

View attachment 320398

What’s your reaction?

To me it sort of looks like Hero has Geno as a sword ornament and now I really I want a hero skin where he has a tiny dangling Geno.