Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Droodle]

I guess I'll do this by paragraph:

-Pretty much everyone was expecting Decidueye until Verge gave it a hard no. Yes, Incineroar was a curve ball according to the fanbase.

-Byleth being a common pocket in tournaments is kind of the point I'm making. Online play is totally different and there's little stakes. Despite Ridley and K. Rool being kind of bad, they still get used in tournament play, a lot. Whether it's at the highest level is irrelevant, you have a lot of people who are literally paying to play tournament matches with these characters despite being unanimously subpar.

-Joker was pretty much the only unexpected character that the Smash fanbase didn't whine about. Let's be honest. Plenty of people were very openly upset about Terry, resulting in months of back and forth of people who actually knew who he was and those that thought he was a Literal Who.

-"It's too predictable." If this is who the evidence points to, why should I lie and insert other characters? For example, with Capcom, the evidence favors Dante by an absurd amount. It's such a blowout it's more believable that Capcom doesn't get a character at all than Dante, and I don't even like or want Dante. Why would I argue someone else? For the sake of spontaneity and eccentricity? Sure, I could say Phoenix Wright or Arthur but that would fly in the face of what's actually out there. "Here's who the evidence currently points to." I don't like it because it's too predictable and not wacky enough. "Um... Sorry?" I'm not going to lie about what I've found and seen to make certain characters appear more likely than they actually are. It's miserable ironic that people basically get mad at me for not lying to them in regards to this.

- Not really, people were expecting a Gen VII Pokemon, and Decidueye was certainly in the lead during those periods. But let's not pretend that no one thought that Incineroar was 100% not happening, many people brought up the argument that Incineroar is popular in Japan as a reason for why it may get in over Decidueye. So was Incineroar unexpected in comparison to Decidueye? Sure. But was Incineroar unexpected compared to 90% of other characters? Not really. Ultimately, people were expecting a Gen VII starter, and Decidueye happened to take the lead.

- Using tourneys to determine the popularity of certain characters is not a good way of doing things, in fact its quite dumb. Especially since soon after Byleth, COVID messed everything up and unless you consider online tournaments (in which case Sonic would be the most loved character in Smash), there wasn't too many chances for him to participate in tourneys compared to Ridley, K. Rool or Banjo.

But even then, you should provide evidence that unexpected characters are inherently worse in terms of usage. This is the best I could find:

https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard/status/1252705963557208064/photo/1. Contains the source of data too.

Sadly it doesn't have Byleth due to the irregular circumstance (not enough valid data); but if we consider purely from a tournament perspective. Incineroar still does better than a lot of the characters you listed (especially if we assume left to right). And in fact, beats out Banjo, Ridley, and even K. Rool (if the assumption is correct). If we consider Incineroar to be "expected" which you aren't but I am, then Joker is by far the most popular "unexpected" pick. However, Banjo, K. Rool, and Ridley are all still mid-low tier in terms of tournament usage at best. So your point doesn't really work, unless you consider online play where K. Rool tends to dominate, and Ridley and Banjo see a modest amount of usage.

- Nowadays people argue if Terry is popular or niche, not if he deserves to be in Smash or not (that argument literally gets brought up for every character, including Banjo). If we look at polls/thoughts on here, on gamefaqs, and even 4chan; Terry tends to place the highest in the "satisfaction" department, just look at the RTC thread for proof. And again, Joker still proves that the Smash fanbase can be happy with unexpected picks. You're just pushing the goalpost here.

- "It's too predictable isn't a good argument", I admit. Because ultimately, a predictable character or 3 will end up getting into Smash. What isn't good is using the argument of these characters aren't discussed in insider circles currently, ergo they can't or will not get in. Likewise sometimes characters in insider circles can just ultimately end up with nothing. That said, I feel as though there are many times where you stretch out the evidence for a character to give them even more "evidence". For example, you've been pretty open about Dante and that's fine; but ultimately all you have to say is "Dante has been heard about a lot from sources, and the timing of DMC ports lines up with Itsuno's statement with waiting for DMC ports before Dante can get into Smash". Instead, on top of that, you also mention how Kamiya's poll in 2018 somehow is also evidence for Dante getting into Smash, because now you're getting into conspiracy theory levels of reach because Kamiya has 0 control of what Capcom/Nintendo decide to put into Smash; especially when said poll didn't even feature Capcom's biggest series at the time with RE and Monster Hunter. I'm not an insider, but it's hard to tell how much evidence a character actually has through your statements. Do you think Dante is happening because most/all of your sources agree on him? Or do you think he's happening because 1-2 of your sources mentioned him, and your own research supports him? If it's the latter, then I'd say Dante is far from "confirmed".

On top of that there many times where you've literally downplayed the evidence of other characters, to push characters that you wanted. If I recall correctly you were against Erdrick getting in until he was officially revealed as a part of Hero, and you viewed Geno as more likely comparatively to DQ. At that point in time, Hero/Erdrick was pretty much dominating insider discussion so the evidence pushed him hard.

That applies to many other characters too. You think Lloyd is happening because he's been heard consistently, and this year will apparently be big for Tales according to your source (though maybe it got pushed to next year). But even then, if that's all that doesn't necessarily mean that Tales has to get a fighter in Smash.

You think Crash is happening because your sources heard him, and Crash 4 is going to come to Switch next year. On top of Crash being a popular requested character, but again the same thing applies... Are you 100% sure Crash is getting into Smash? Did all your sources or your most accurate source tell you "I am 100% sure Crash, Lloyd, Master Chief, Geno, and Dante are all happening", because it seems unlikely that after such leak preventing measures from Nintendo, that literally all the names of the Fighter Pass have been accurately leaked already.

I'm not accusing you of being a liar, and I don't think you are. But I do think you show your bias to certain characters a lot of time. I genuinely do believe that some of your list will end up getting into Smash; but I doubt it will be all of them. Unless you are 100% sure that this character will 100% get into Smash, then you shouldn't bother bringing them up here; at least within the context of "these characters are heard by a ton of insiders and are probably happening" (this place is for discussing Geno anyways).

And if you do act as though a character/something is happening 100%, while using your sources to back you up. And then you get it wrong, then you should be prepared to face some criticism for it.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

What HGV is doing is clout-chasing bull**** and reminds me of the kind of crap Sabi would pull, and I am so against it that it isn't funny. She's posting this vague image and going around like, "Nintendo doesn't care what you want. They'll only give you fanservice if it makes them money," paraphrased and not verbatim.

I keep telling y'all not to give her any attention, man. Just don't. Even if her information ever checks out, her behavior is repulsive. She doesn't deserve the limelight, much like Sabi didn't deserve his.

She also defends Cuties.

 

[Trevenant]

I mean, expecting everyone to be satisfied at basically everything is impossible. I feel people just shove that at the community at large when it really isn't. Yeah people will whine but that's expected. It just isn't going to go otherwise. This is kind of me getting into another problem.

People complaining about people complaining just causes it to turn into a vicious circle despite the people complaining complaining about the people complaining suggest that they dislike those people complaining so they complain about the people complaining and then they get onto the same level as people who were originally complaining. The people who are just spouting it off obnoxiously are either just joking or trolls so you are very best off just completely ignoring it and by completely I mean completely.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, people can disagree with my predictions all they want but many people hard steer away from being honest about why. How hard is it for people to say that don't agree because they don't want something in it?

"What? No Rex?!? These predictions are fraudulent and LGBTQ."

"His predictions have more than two top 10 fan requests? Nintendo would literally never do that despite Brawl and even Melee currently having more hard fan picks than Ultimate does. Nevermind that 6 of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were decently sized fan requests and Nintendo has already released a pass that was mostly unexpected characters. Let's antagonize this guy because his predictions don't reflect my NintenDOOMED expectations!"

"He's just telling people what they want to hear despite painstakingly going into his reasoning for each pick, openly admitting that Geno is the only one of predictions that he's a huge fan of, and having 4 of the 5 current pack predictions pretty much locked in for almost a year now."

"His insider stuff is flimsy and doesn't stand well on its own despite him outwardly saying multiple times that he regularly disagrees with his insider friends and relies significantly more on his own research, using insider stuff to supplement his predictions and not totally account for them."

"He's lying about Geno just to be a cult personality despite the fact that you can literally find posts from the Smash 4 days when he calls Geno a pipedream and proactively tells the Geno fanbase to curb their expectations because the evidence wasn't there yet."

This is why I get so uppity about this.

"Why are you predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"Why are you not predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"You literally just picked the most popular characters/your personal favorites and pretend insiders told you that they're absolutely happening."

...



Kill me.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

She also defends Cuties.

She WHAT?!?!?

brb blocking her

 

[Peeton]

Yeah he could but I was just thinking about what Sakurai would do. If he were to add Leif he would function pretty similarly to Marth imo. There was even that whole rumour of Leif being scrapped in favour of Roy as a Marth clone. If he was unique probably some kind of thunder tome on side b, rewarp tome on Up B and Sword of Light attack on B which should look exactly like it should from the game. I suppose a better example would be Kris but even after fully playing through Thracia a long time ago, I still think that he would probably be relegated to clone due to mixture of lack of priority and just how FE has typically been represented.

I would unironically not mind Kris despite how many people hate him tbh. A customisation option done on the CSS with a Pokemon Trainer like moveset but with different weapons being toggled on the CSS to change the moveset would be kinda neat

I would HATE if he were a clone, but I agree that they would probably make him one. Sad

 

[Trevenant]

Yeah, people can disagree with my predictions all they want but many people hard steer away from being honest about why. How hard is it for people to say that don't agree because they don't want something in it?

"What? No Rex?!? These predictions are fraudulent and LGBTQ."

"His predictions have more than two top 10 fan requests? Nintendo would literally never do that despite Brawl and even Melee currently having more hard fan picks than Ultimate does. Nevermind that 6 of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were decently sized fan requests and Nintendo has already released a pass that was mostly unexpected characters. Let's antagonize this guy because his predictions don't reflect my NintenDOOMED expectations!"

"He's just telling people what they want to hear despite painstakingly going into his reasoning for each pick, openly admitting that Geno is the only one of predictions that he's a huge fan of, and having 4 of the 5 current pack predictions pretty much locked in for almost a year now."

"His insider stuff is flimsy and doesn't stand well on his own despite him outwardly saying multiple times that he regularly disagrees with his insider friends and relies significantly more on his own research, using insider stuff to supplement his predictions and not totally account for them."

"He's lying about Geno just to be a cult personality despite the fact that you can literally find posts from the Smash 4 days when he calls Geno a pipedream and proactively tells the Geno fanbase to curb their expectations because the evidence wasn't there yet."

This is why I get so uppity about this.

"Why are you predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"Why are you not predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"You literally just picked the most popular characters/your personal favorites and pretend insiders told you that they're absolutely happening."

...

View attachment 285543

Kill me.

Idk, I disagree with some not only due to how I don't think some have a shot in the first place but also due to how I think it's way too good to be true especially considering how Min Min kind of set the bar like Joker did and especially the first pass. But that's the thing, that's what I think, people can think whatever they want unless it's been proven otherwise or they are blocking out things already known.

Of course you have said stuff that is a stretch (a couple of months back you said Rex was meant to come with Byleth when that clearly wasn't the case) but I doubt that played into your predictions much and even if it did it was a minor mistake to my knowledge.

 

[TriggerX]

Dante, Lloyd , Crash, Geno, Ryu, and Master Chief.

They are only lame predictions because most media outlets are “predicting” them.

They aren’t bad choices in my opinion, I’d be fine with either of them. It’s great that the possibility for any of those characters to exist, but at this point they aren’t exactly character predictions that are out of nowhere.

 

[Noipoi]

One thing I’ve found with the modern smash fanbase, at least in my experiences, is that some of the “new blood” is sick of the old guard and their 20+ year long smash wants. Seen it the most with Banjo pre June 2019 and currently Geno.

Which is kind’ve a weird thing to be upset about? I guess they don’t like that these characters seem to dominate the conversation but, still. Kinda weird.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Idk, I disagree with some not only due to how I don't think some have a shot in the first place but also due to how I think it's way too good to be true especially considering how Min Min kind of set the bar like Joker did and especially the first pass. But that's the thing, that's what I think, people can think whatever they want unless it's been proven otherwise or they are blocking out things already known.

Of course you have said stuff that is a stretch (a couple of months back you said Rex was meant to come with Byleth when that clearly wasn't the case) but I doubt that played into your predictions much and even if it did it was a minor mistake to my knowledge.

I can definitely understand the "too good to be true" argument but that's just kind of how the dice have landed in my research. Going into an abridged - abridged version of the reasoning behind my predictions, the starting point was 6 characters from 6 different companies. Going back to January, the companies that had the most evidence going for them were: Nintendo, Square, Namco, Capcom, Microsoft, and "a Western company." Things just then branched out from there. What's the most likely for each category? Oh, this based on this, this, this, etc. That's essentially how I got Waluigi, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante, and Chief. 6 branching paths with 6 different endings. Again, super simplified but that's the gist of it.

 

[Trevenant]

I can definitely understand the "too good to be true" argument but that's just kind of how the dice have landed in my research. Going into an abridged - abridged version of the reasoning behind my predictions, the starting point was 6 characters from 6 different companies. Going back to January, the companies that had the most evidence going for them were: Nintendo, Square, Namco, Capcom, Microsoft, and "a Western company." Things just then branched out from there. What's the most likely for each category? Oh, this based on this, this, this, etc. That's essentially how I got Waluigi, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante, and Chief. 6 branching paths with 6 different endings. Again, super simplified but that's the gist of it.

It's understandable that those were the 6 left. Konami were screwed but they have tonnes of content anyway, Sega has got tonnes of content with 3 unique characters too as do SNK. Min Min is Nintendo so that should count but I guess we will just have to see what happens.

It definitely isn't a basic pass and when people say it is, they probably mean from a more speculation based perspective as tonnes of things happened for some of those characters and then it reinvigorated some and kicked off a bandwagon for a few others. Either way the reveal will shake it up should it happen.

 

[Vector Victor]

One thing I’ve found with the modern smash fanbase, at least in my experiences, is that some of the “new blood” is sick of the old guard and their 20+ year long smash wants. Seen it the most with Banjo pre June 2019 and currently Geno.

Which is kind’ve a weird thing to be upset about? I guess they don’t like that these characters seem to dominate the conversation but, still. Kinda weird.

For the lead up to K Rool and Banjo, there was a decent amount of resentment for 90s era characters, so much that I think a large chunk of detractors hated Rool and Banjo simply BECAUSE they originated from the 90s, as if the game was drowning in the 90s. Which is amusing as its the 80s that has the most reps and got more with Ultimate (Daisy, Ridley, Simon, Plant, Ken). The 90s only got Rool and Richter and the rest was 10s. 00s just got Dark Samus. And the New Blood can't really complain much as the DLC so far has catered to the 10s, specifically the 2nd half.

Seems like some people are more focused on the speculation side of Smash rather than the actual game, as though the speculation IS their game. So they complain about common fan characters because, to them, that makes speculation dull and repetitive. Seems like they want different characters discussed or headline to spice up conversation rather than having them in Smash. But in that case, soon those characters will be discussed ad nauseum to the point that they feel soeculation is dead again so now we need new new characters. And repeat.

 

[Droodle]

Yeah, people can disagree with my predictions all they want but many people hard steer away from being honest about why. How hard is it for people to say that don't agree because they don't want something in it?

"What? No Rex?!? These predictions are fraudulent and LGBTQ."

"His predictions have more than two top 10 fan requests? Nintendo would literally never do that despite Brawl and even Melee currently having more hard fan picks than Ultimate does. Nevermind that 6 of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were decently sized fan requests and Nintendo has already released a pass that was mostly unexpected characters. Let's antagonize this guy because his predictions don't reflect my NintenDOOMED expectations!"

"He's just telling people what they want to hear despite painstakingly going into his reasoning for each pick, openly admitting that Geno is the only one of predictions that he's a huge fan of, and having 4 of the 5 current pack predictions pretty much locked in for almost a year now."

"His insider stuff is flimsy and doesn't stand well on its own despite him outwardly saying multiple times that he regularly disagrees with his insider friends and relies significantly more on his own research, using insider stuff to supplement his predictions and not totally account for them."

"He's lying about Geno just to be a cult personality despite the fact that you can literally find posts from the Smash 4 days when he calls Geno a pipedream and proactively tells the Geno fanbase to curb their expectations because the evidence wasn't there yet."

This is why I get so uppity about this.

"Why are you predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"Why are you not predicting this character?"

(Goes into lengthy explanation with citations.)

"..."

"You literally just picked the most popular characters/your personal favorites and pretend insiders told you that they're absolutely happening."

...

View attachment 285543

Kill me.

I think you literally skipped the main point of the argument I'm making, please read it. It's not a hard statement to understand, and you're completely dodging it.

"Are you 100% confident that Lloyd, Geno, Dante, Master Chief and Crash are 100% happening?" And if they aren't you do understand, there will be some criticism right? Maybe not from here, but definitely from other threads and communities.

This thread should be focused on Geno, and I know you often get (unfairly) run out of other threads, but really if it doesn't relate to Geno or potentially when we'll see the next Nintendo info; then you don't really even have to share information about Dante, Crash, Master Chief, or Lloyd. At least not here, and if the other threads run you out; you can just keep it to yourself and close confidants.

Just because you're predicting characters that you don't actively want; doesn't make your information look more likely. I think most of my predictions will be characters I don't like, in fact I predict that none of this next pass will be filled with characters I like; it doesn't make my prediction more likely to be real.

Also Smash 4 DLC, while filled with fan requests wasn't exactly predictable; filled with fan-requests? Sure. But not predictable. Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta were shocks to many people. Likewise you can have an (unrealistic) pass with Sora, Arle, Geno, Reimu, and Isaac. This pass is filled with fan requests while also being unpredictable too (never gonna happen though).

Whenever you talk about Dante, Crash, Lloyd, Geno, and Chief; you always act as if they're pretty much confirmed thanks to insiders and your own research; but I don't really know what your research is. And the points you have made here (for each of these characters) previously seem to be full of holes and valid alternative explanations. So it makes it hard to take certain information at face value.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Droodle Apparently at some point you've missed where I talk about characters in terms of probability... Where have I said that anybody is absolutely a lock or 100%? God, this is so on the nose to my complaints today that it's uncanny. My predictions are who I see as the most probable, not absolute. As I have said time and time and time and time and time and time again, nobody has outright told me that anyone is absolutely happening and literally the last time an inside source flat out said "it's happening" was for Banjo last spring.

Also, in regards to Erdrick, you can easily find a number of my posts where I was arguing for multiple Square DLC characters eventually and not only supporting that Erdrick was likely true but that Erdrick didn't impact Geno's chances:

[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

I am still holding out believing Erdrick is a big smoke screen. Part of that is me just being hopeful for Geno, but if we end up getting Dragon Quest representation, I will be one of the first to say that it is a very deserving pick. You cannot deny that Dragon Quest is an extremely huge IP and...

smashboards.com

[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

Going to be honest... Since when did this become the Dragon Quest thread? Lol. i told you guys Uematsu and Sugiyama were/gonna be the problems they don't need a ton of songs i'd say get a few that do their job and get the point across so get 1. The Main theme 2. 3s battle theme 3. 4s battle...

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

>goes to another character's thread to assert that his fanbase is better because they don't go to other characters' threads to complain Whoops. Because Geno fans literally invade every board. When was the last time you heard bull**** theories on how he's gonna playable? And fine just ignore the...

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

He does lol. I can just imagine someone drawing him and Frogfucious with a text box over Frogfucious saying: "MALLOW, YOU ARE NOT A TADPOLE" This was my first thought seeing this and I am pretty sure that makes me a terrible person.

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

What bias, m8? I'm just some random person who joined the forums this summer and have been in this thread since then. I'm just pointing out that from what I've observed nothing thus far that @PolarPanda has done has been sketch so I don't really understand where the specific skepticism towards...

smashboards.com

 

[Wazygoose]

Compelled to go on a rant here, indulge me.

There is no Smash fanbase, there’s Smash fanbases, with an s. Smash has too broad an appeal. Most people that play I would say aren’t even fans, many are kids and teens that play it twice a month for 30-45 minutes when they’re at their friends house in between other activities because it’s colorful and poppy and has a bunch of fun recognizable characters beating each other up. It’s mostly designed for people to laugh, and is just barely deep enough to be able to be competitive.

When someone is playing for the first time, who do you recommend? 100% of the time it’s Kirby. Kirby is the most played character because he’s super cute, recognizable, has a bunch of jumps that let him get back onstage, and his down b is safe, powerful, and easy to do for casuals who don’t even understand how the game works. A lot of people that try playing have to look down at the controller to know the buttons you’re saying to press, and don’t realize up b helps you recover. They don’t even care, they just laugh when they die.

Who’s next? Characters people recognize. Link, Peach, Bowser. There’s a billion characters on the select screen. No one playing casually for the first 20 times looks at them all, they find someone they think is cool and pick them, the don’t change much so they don’t have to learn new moves. People don’t play Street Fighter, Soul Caliber, and other fighting games because they’re too technical and only 2 people can play at once. Smash is designed in large part for a bunch of people to play at the same time in the middle of the day on a weekend and drunk people at a party as a side diversion. It is the Mario Kart of fighting games. It takes like 20 seconds to turn on the switch and get to the character select screen.

No DLC character on Earth is ever going to be more popular than Kirby and Link, followed by other characters people just know the names of by a tiny picture among 80 on a single screen. DLC is for fans, people who actually pay attention to that stuff and buy them because they are interesting and cool. Why do so many have weird mechanics that regular characters don’t? Because no one bothers to buy a character that’s the same as 70 others they already have, or a fan favorite. Smash Ultimate has been super accommodating to long time fans. It’s even got a Cuphead and Sans costumes with super recognizable music.

All the people that bought Smash Ultimate that talk about it even in passing outside of playing it is 0.1%. All the discussion about DLC characters is by a tiny portion of internet people. All of those predicting and infighting and name calling is between people of massively different ages and interests in the game.

There is no fanbase. There’s 35 year olds who want Geno because he is a childhood dream, kids who play Minecraft who would be super excited to see him in the game where cartoons beat each other to a pulp, a relative handful of competitive players, people in Brazil and Mexico and Europe and all around the world, tipsy girlfriends among a group at a party giving Kirby a try for 5 minutes right after beer pong and right before King’s Cup, teens and adults that play regularly and buy DLC, any other person imaginable who has ever picked up a Switch controller of the thirty kinds that are compatible to make it easier for more people to play at once.

Groups arguing with each other on the internet and on Twitter is a microcosm. Sakurai cares about the nice ones and earnest fans and truly appreciates them as loyal fans, but Nintendo doesn’t maintain its money or brand on them and mostly ignores them. Among other machinations Smash is a tool to bring visibility to other properties. DLC is absolutely perfect in that regard. You don’t hide a character that could be used to help reboot or expand a series in the base game. You reveal them, one at a time over years of time when it is strategically advantageous surrounding some other release. Then you make a few expensive Amibos for the subset of fans who eat that stuff up.

I’ve lost the point of all this, which is just that I disagree whenever I hear about the mythic Smash fanbase. It’s not a single cohesive fanbase where people disagree with each other, it’s groups of a small subset of the player base who look at the game from fundamentally different perspectives. Of course they’re going to disagree on what the DLC should be. Of course they’ll misunderstand each other.

I want Geno so that when I play with my niece and her friends for 20 minutes I can see a gaming throwback I really like while they beat me up with more recognizable characters. But I won’t even play him twice in a row, because it’s a waste of the 80 character roster to only play a few characters, and variety is more fun and makes us laugh more than getting good. For them I hope other DLC is characters they know and recognize from modern games they‘ve played but never beaten, not a 25 year old doll. Still, I argue that this doll is special enough to many long, long time fans of the series to include as a thank you, reboot or not.

 

[Droodle]

Droodle Apparently at some point you've missed where I talk about characters in terms of probability... Where have I said that anybody is absolutely a lock or 100%? God, this is so on the nose to my complaints today that it's uncanny. My predictions are who I see as the most probable, not absolute. As I have said time and time and time and time and time and time again, nobody has outright told me that anyone is absolutely happening and literally the last time an inside source flat out said "it's happening" was for Banjo last spring.

Also, in regards to Erdrick, you can easily find a number of my posts where I was arguing for multiple Square DLC characters eventually and not only supporting that Erdrick was likely true but that Erdrick didn't impact Geno's chances:

[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

I am still holding out believing Erdrick is a big smoke screen. Part of that is me just being hopeful for Geno, but if we end up getting Dragon Quest representation, I will be one of the first to say that it is a very deserving pick. You cannot deny that Dragon Quest is an extremely huge IP and...

smashboards.com

[SPOILER ALERT] - The Sevens Squares. - A Square-Enix general support threads.

Going to be honest... Since when did this become the Dragon Quest thread? Lol. i told you guys Uematsu and Sugiyama were/gonna be the problems they don't need a ton of songs i'd say get a few that do their job and get the point across so get 1. The Main theme 2. 3s battle theme 3. 4s battle...

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

>goes to another character's thread to assert that his fanbase is better because they don't go to other characters' threads to complain Whoops. Because Geno fans literally invade every board. When was the last time you heard bull**** theories on how he's gonna playable? And fine just ignore the...

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

He does lol. I can just imagine someone drawing him and Frogfucious with a text box over Frogfucious saying: "MALLOW, YOU ARE NOT A TADPOLE" This was my first thought seeing this and I am pretty sure that makes me a terrible person.

smashboards.com

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

What bias, m8? I'm just some random person who joined the forums this summer and have been in this thread since then. I'm just pointing out that from what I've observed nothing thus far that @PolarPanda has done has been sketch so I don't really understand where the specific skepticism towards...

smashboards.com

Then if they're not locks, why do you feel the need to bring them up constantly in this thread, particularly in terms that makes them look like general insider consensus makes them really safe bets? Essentially you're getting fans of certain characters hopes up for no real reason; if those characters end up getting in then that's great, but you are also creating a "expectation" for fans of those character. Sure, I doubt you mean any harm by it; but until something solid comes around, it's better to keep it to yourself. Obviously, you can predict characters; but the problem is that you mix some of your own insider information into those predictions, and then go public about it.

As for your Erdrick points, I meant more in regards to pre E3 2019. Where you were actually thinking it might not be Erdrick/DQ after all.

Guess I need to clear things up since I haven't been on here in like a month and a half:

-Based on things discussed on Discord, there's a decent possibility that Brave may not be who people were expecting it to be. This is based on commentary from some of Garbage truck's connections as well as rumors and strongly probable future announcements at E3 that have come from them.

-There's strong implications that the rumored E3 character will be paired with one or more announcements, some arguably bigger than the character announcement itself. This comes from connecting statements made by various sources, pushing it into the realm of being probable. For clarity's sake, this is possible for 2 or even 3 candidates and hasn't been totally narrowed down. I've noticed that people have been kind of going nuts with Banjo but, not to be a total killjoy, there's almost equal evidence for others too behind the scenes.

Erdrick's situation is weird. All the major rumors that have come out with him since December have been torpedoed and most of his biggest advocates have retired or disgraced. Verge's track record has been super shaky since November and he's even talked about how a vast majority of the Smash information he got was in a big info dump that happened roughly a year ago now. That said, he would have known about Erdrick about a year in advance which skirts probability for a lot of reasons with a big one being Square is pretty aggressive about leaks and has even been known to sue. This along with how Square has skipped a ton of opportunities to reveal the character and revealing him at a conference that's extremely biased towards Western audiences doesn't make sense to me personally. TGS? Absolutely. E3? Setting it up to be overshadowed in a big way. Despite this, I don't know because Verge's Smash info was borderline perfect up until DLC so it's hard to say. I'm about 50/50 on whether Erdrick is coming or not but I still stand by him coming before or after E3 if he is.

When I say front-runners, I will say Banjo because a lot of the evidence has been made public but I won't say the other one. Some statements by King Zell make me strongly consider it only with collaborating evidence from others. Neither are 100% confirmed. Both would be a big deal but the other would arguably be a bigger deal though that's just my thoughts on it.

Sleepers? Lloyd and Yuri were mentioned by a few people in passing since last fall but nothing substantial. It's definitely believable but it's not like there's a ton of evidence aside from hear-say. Beyond that, no idea but I could see Sakurai doing someone really far out there just to shake things up. Like I said, info has long since dried up and Erdrick, Banjo, and ??? are largely still talked about because they were speculation of some of the more credible insiders.

More on the Erdrick situation: I feel like he's in a similar boat to how Megaman was in Brawl. Because of who has talked about the character, he's moved into the territory of being a safe bet or comfort pick, even if he doesn't wind up happening. The idea has been discussed so much within the community that it would honestly no longer be surprising if it happened. This is why he's now copy and pasted into pretty much every rumor that comes out because it's more or less expected now. Not everybody may be on board with the idea but it makes enough sense in the grand scheme of things that saying the character is totally unlikely or even impossible is kind of pointless at this point. If it happens it happens, if it doesn't, eh. It is what it is.

If Geno's truly out of the running, my only thought as to why is marketability beyond DLC. At this point I don't know because because there's still a lot of unknowns and how Sakurai seems to be coy about whether the Fighter Pass will be the end for this game. I'm still in the boat that Geno will happen eventually but maybe not for this game. The endurance of the character is really something else and it's honestly hard to ignore that he's still consistently topping fan polls despite no major appearances in over two decades.

@3BitSaurus : I did talk about that in the past but Kurogame Hammer even came into this thread to correct me on a number of things, sharing that the stats of characters can change wildly before release. It's really hard to say what's ultimately consistent was the big takeaway. Despite that, Joker pretty much turned out how his data suggested he would be which makes it a hard topic to peg down completely. "Brave" could play like their datamined data or the developers could change the character to be almost completely unrecognizable. We don't know.

Though I was mistaken, you weren't saying Erdrick isn't happening; but rather it's hard to tell as Brave's info wasn't consistent, and it may have been someone else.

 

[MattOnwheels]

How many times I play him isnt the POINT! What matters is he's in Gamings biggest crossover and getting the respect and new lease on life he deserves!

 

[Genome]

I'll never understand the logic that my predictions are "boring." How are five characters that were once collectively dismissed by the fanbase as pipedreams "boring?" The crushing irony is that your typical Smash fan's wishlist is typically half anime swordsmen and then they look at someone like Chief and think, "wow, how boring." Beyond this, there's all the people that cried and threw a fit at most of the picks for the Fighter's Pass because they were arguably curve balls. It's the weird duality of the Smash fanbase:

-Characters that the fanbase actually wants are boring.

-Characters that the fanbase doesn't want are bad and prove Sakurai isn't listening to fans.

It's just jokes and I'm sorry I offended you. I know that you have been unfairly treated among online Smash fans for a while and have had to deal with the utmost bullcrap from all corners. There was no ill will in my post whatsoever, and I'd like clarify my view on your predictions: I do not think they are boring, at least in a vacuum. I merely called it 'vanilla' because these are heavily speculated characters in the community, not because I think you have poor taste. Sorry again.

 

[Genome]

"Hey guys that post where I pretended to be Fatman was pretty funny ri-"

Sorry for breaking the thread guys. I'm probably going to stick to lurking for the next week at least. Hopefully this Civil War passes soon.

 

[ForsakenM]

Then if they're not locks, why do you feel the need to bring them up constantly in this thread, particularly in terms that makes them look like general insider consensus makes them really safe bets? Essentially you're getting fans of certain characters hopes up for no real reason; if those characters end up getting in then that's great, but you are also creating a "expectation" for fans of those character. Sure, I doubt you mean any harm by it; but until something solid comes around, it's better to keep it to yourself. Obviously, you can predict characters; but the problem is that you mix some of your own insider information into those predictions, and then go public about it.

As for your Erdrick points, I meant more in regards to pre E3 2019. Where you were actually thinking it might not be Erdrick/DQ after all.






Though I was mistaken, you weren't saying Erdrick isn't happening; but rather it's hard to tell as Brave's info wasn't consistent, and it may have been someone else.

Boy, you are dense.

He talks about them and their chances a lot because they have the most going for them in terms of potential evidence.

If Krystal had evidence, he'd talk about her. If Mipha had REAL evidence, he'd seriously talk about her. This isn't some stupid wannabe speculation channel where we talk about any and ever video game character: we are talking about those who have things that have come up that can very much be in their favor. If you want to talk about every character under the sun, go to the RTC thread because even the Newcomer Speculation mostly only talks about a select few who have things in their favor.

'Hey, stop talking about the chances of these few characters when info that could be good for their chances comes up because people might not be able to be responsible for their own emotions.'

Bruh, he's a janitor at a school who loves Geno and Halloween. He's not resposible for how anyone else feels but himself, so stop acting like he should take responsibility for it just because he doesn't act like PapaGenos and tries to moderate his hype or BlockedContent who talks about **** that doesn't matter and means nothing.

Get off his back so he can go back to cleaning the stalls of entitled 20-some-year-old children and go gather up some real evidence for other characters if you can actually find any, which at the moment you can't because there currently is none, so instead go do something else productive instead of trying to heap unwarranted responsibilities on random people on the internet.

 

[Skull Leader]

We're back to the point in the circle of screaming where no news is leading everyone to be on edge.

Give it a few days when something (hopefully) happens. We will all be buddy buddy again for a few days until the cycle starts anew.

 

[ForsakenM]

We're back to the point in the circle of screaming where no news is leading everyone to be on edge.

Give it a few days when something (hopefully) happens. We will all be buddy buddy again for a few days until the cycle starts anew.

I guess but it seems like it's more about people who are uninformed are riding Fatman's on ice ass about the very things they are misinformed about.

In other words, it's that time of the month again.

 

[MattX20]

God, I'm getting flashbacks of last year up to E3. Just one character reveal shouldn't be this much of a headache for Nintendo to reveal/release. It's been roughly 3 months since the reveal and release of MinMin, FP7 shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Vector Victor]

We're back to the point in the circle of screaming where no news is leading everyone to be on edge.

Give it a few days when something (hopefully) happens. We will all be buddy buddy again for a few days until the cycle starts anew.

As these potential slots dwindle as the pass is revealed, expect the speculation scene in the Smash fanbase to get worse and worse. Wait until there's two spots left and soon people will be out for verbal blood.

 

[Paraspikey]

God, I'm getting flashbacks of last year up to E3. Just one character reveal shouldn't be this much of a headache for Nintendo to reveal/release. It's been roughly 3 months since the reveal and release of MinMin, FP7 shouldn't be an issue.

It's not a issue, they're having no issues, it's just that Nintendo made the decision to host most of their first party news in September so they can get back on track.
I'm not saying it was a good decision at all.

 

[Fatmanonice]

"Weren't you biased against Erdrick and said he wasn't happening because he was competition for Geno?"

(Pulls up posts over the span of 6 months that show I begrudgingly accepted Erdrick but disagreed on the timing of his release and whether Erdrick was "Brave" or not. Also shows I argued that Dragon Quest warranted a character and that Erdrick and Geno fan could co-exist because both could happen.)

And people wonder why I get so defensive...

Droodle

Why do I bring up the others? Because people ask my opinion on it all the time. Plenty of people want more than just Geno afterall. There's a number of regulars in this thread now that are more so other fanbases than Geno. People value my opinion and I really don't feel like being a mini-mod about it by being like "the white zone is for loading and unloading of Geno opinions only." The thread's huge and we've exhausted most topics on Geno ages ago.

The whole "your predictions are raising some fanbases' expectations" and "you're too confident in your own predictions" arguments make me want to drink until my liver resembles something meant for a charcuterie board. People are responsible for their own expectations and emotional regulation. You're all adults, I'm not responsible for a single one of you. Your expectations and your emotional response to whether they come true or not are your responsibility.

As for my confidence, yes? I have confidence in my own thinking and have regularly displayed changing my thoughts and opinions as new evidence arises. Literally what's the issue? I'm not a bigot because as people STILL chide me about, I changed my mind on who 5 was multiple times as new evidence arose, for example. Watta crime, apparently. Would people prefer if I was steely and unchanging no matter what came up? Would people prefer if I was ****in' Kermit the Frog and wishy-washy to a strangle worthy degree? If people are upset that I don't present my opinions with the ambiguousness as an early afternoon NPR political pundit, maybe it's a personal thing? My predictions are apparently boring and vanilla but, wonder upon wonders, people are also upset that I don't present my opinions in a way that's boring and vanilla and that my boring opinions are somehow too spicy and taint speculation in some magical way that only the arcane dark arts of a Midwestern custodian can. Again, it's exhausting; I'm exhausted and the only reason I didn't say "**** this" after the doxx attempt last year was because I literally promised the Geno fanbase ages ago I would stay on this site until the site closed down or Geno got in.

 

[MattX20]

"Weren't you biased against Erdrick and said he wasn't happening because he was competition for Geno?"

(Pulls up posts over the span of 6 months that show I begrudgingly accepted Erdrick but disagreed on the timing of his release and whether Erdrick was "Brave" or not. Also shows I argued that Dragon Quest warranted a character and that Erdrick and Geno fan could co-exist because both could happen.)

And people wonder why I get so defensive...

Droodle

Why do I bring up the others? Because people ask my opinion on it all the time. Plenty of people want more than just Geno afterall. There's a number of regulars in this thread now that are more so other fanbases than Geno. People value my opinion and I really don't feel like being a mini-mod about it by being like "the white zone is for loading and unloading of Geno opinions only." The thread's huge and we've exhausted most topics on Geno ages ago.

The whole "your predictions are raising some fanbases' expectations" and "you're too confident in your own predictions" arguments make me want to drink until my liver resembles something meant for a charcuterie board. People are responsible for their own expectations and emotional regulation. You're all adults, I'm not responsible for a single one of you. Your expectations and your emotional response to whether they come true or not are your responsibility.

As for my confidence, yes? I have confidence in my own thinking and have regularly displayed changing my thoughts and opinions as new evidence arises. Literally what's the issue? I'm not a bigot because as people STILL chide me about, I changed my mind on who 5 was multiple times as new evidence arose, for example. Watta crime, apparently. Would people prefer if I was steely and unchanging no matter what came up? Would people prefer if I was in' Kermit the Frog and wishy-washy to a strangle worthy degree? If people are upset that I don't present my opinions with the ambiguousness as an early afternoon NPR political pundit, maybe it's a personal thing? My predictions are apparently boring and vanilla but, wonder upon wonders, people are also upset that I don't present my opinions in a way that's boring and vanilla and that my boring opinions are somehow too spicy and taint speculation in some magical way that only the arcane dark arts of a Midwestern custodian can. Again, it's exhausting; I'm exhausted and the only reason I didn't say " this" after the doxx attempt last year was because I literally promised the Geno fanbase ages ago I would stay on this site until the site closed down or Geno got in.

and I appreciate the hard work you've put in, as frustrating as it can be at times

 

[MattOnwheels]

I think this meme will just about sum up this spat!

(Its a joke, guys. I love you all~ )

 

[Nazyrus]

I think this meme will just about sum up this spat!

(Its a joke, guys. I love you all~ )

That's just the internet in general for the last decade or so, haha.

 

[Noipoi]

I think this meme will just about sum up this spat!

(Its a joke, guys. I love you all~ )

Yo where’d you get that picture of me?

 

[ForsakenM]

That's just the internet in general for the last decade or so, haha.

I'd argue that's generally American society for the past 12 or more years.

 

[Nazyrus]

I'd argue that's generally American society for the past 12 or more years.

Naaaah trust me stupidity, edgyness and entitlement reaches every corner of this world… lol

 

[Fatmanonice]

Naaaah trust me stupidity, edgyness and entitlement reaches every corner of this world… lol

I keep seeing your Tweets about you laughing at us. Is our suffering a joke to you?

 

[MattOnwheels]

I keep seeing your Tweets about you laughing at us. Is our suffering a joke to you?

I have to agree with Fats here. What's that about? Nazyrus

Surely you don't think you're not a part of all this madness, do you?

 

[QQS]

Guys and girls, this is the week. Geno is happening.

Im rooting for a Square Enix-Nintendo announcement of amiibo based on those little key chains with each of the members of the party in SMPRG + some new amiibo of FF7 remake + Geno for Smash promoting this just like Hero did with DQ11.

Bases and all that Fatmanonice exposes always (and in the Essay) +The List by Polarthief , call me a dreamer but for me it’s so OBVIOUS that Geno is joining this Party Ultimately as character #77 in the next DLC pack #7.

Prepare for the final days before the official and most pretty/epic reveal of all times in terms of Design, Revival, CGI, Music, Moveset, Stage and piece of history.

This is it, GENO SERVES A HIGHER REQUEST!

 

[MattX20]

Guys and girls, this is the week. Geno is happening.

Im rooting for a Square Enix-Nintendo announcement of amiibo based on those little key chains with each of the members of the party in SMPRG + some new amiibo of FF7 remake + Geno for Smash promoting this just like Hero did with DQ11.

Bases and all that Fatmanonice exposes always (and in the Essay) +The List by Polarthief , call me a dreamer but for me it’s so OBVIOUS that Geno is joining this Party Ultimately as character #77 in the next DLC pack #7.

Prepare for the final days before the official and most pretty/epic reveal of all times in terms of Design, Revival, CGI, Music, Moveset, Stage and piece of history.

This is it, GENO SERVES A HIGHER REQUEST!

Your optimism is always appreciated. Even if it doesn't happen this week, it's still appreciated

 

[YsDisciple]

Genobros, hold steadfast. A new week awaits. Stay strong, yet ready for any outcome. Sakurai's Magnum Opus is truly a blessing in this video gaming age. Trust in Him and the rest of the staff (Sora Ltd., Bandai Namco, Nintendo, etc.).

 

[Moodor]

Hi guys new (or old returning here), I was active during the Brawl days but I lost my old Smashboards account. Either way I just came to say that I think Geno's chances look pretty good, and it's exciting seeing that so many things are lining up for him.

 

[MattX20]

Hi guys new (or old returning here), I was active during the Brawl days but I lost my old Smashboards account. Either way I just came to say that I think Geno's chances look pretty good, and it's exciting seeing that so many things are lining up for him.

Welcome to the thread once again

 

[Elmorethemagician]

TBH, It seems like this could be our week...
Hopefully it happens!