Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even though it's called a remix? Also, comparing environmental noises to a remix is a complete and utter joke.

Your avatar is perfect for your response.

Yeah, that was... quite a song indeed. Like, I don't have an opinion of the remixes in question, but not all music was great in general.

Though for me, the only remixes that bothered me was the overuse of the Brawl theme. The theme is good, but I got tired of it fastttt with over 20 remixes. Put some other music in there, oy.

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

Then how do you explain this. By the way, this is coming from someone who's a huge Banjo fanatic. So, they're not "butchering" the tracks at all.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I liked all of the Banjo-Kazooie remixes; they still have that B-K feel, and have that cartoony, hype-worthy fun the original tracks have. Kinda hard to remix something and make it sound different without changing up the instruments and style, anyway; wouldn’t really be a remix then, just a remaster or something.

 

[PatPrime]

The Banjo remixes do have a different feel compared to the original songs with the exception of Spiral Mountain and Treasure Trove Cove. That doesn't mean they're bad, just different. I at least like all of them, so I'm satisfied (even though I wish Grunty's Battle was remixed).

So Geno, I've stated that I like the character, his design, and his potential for a moveset, but I'm not the biggest supporter here (I'm not even on the list). I want him in moreso for you guys to finally have your wish come true.

This post is brought to you by Vinesauce Vinny's Booster voice (and his livestream of Mario RPG in general).

 

[MisterMike]

How could you forget the biggest point against Banjo's remix of all: ZERO GRUNTILDA THEMES, whether it's Grunty's Lair or the final boss theme. Absolutely unforgivable move on both Sakurai and Microsoft's part.

Well it was there in the Gobi's Valley remix so technically it was there, but I agree that it would've been nice to get a remix of that theme on it's own.
And a remix of the Final Battle theme.
And the Weldar theme instead of the Lord Woo Fak Fak theme.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

Well it was there in the Gobi's Valley remix so technically it was there, but I agree that it would've been nice to get a remix of that theme on it's own.
And a remix of the Final Battle theme.
And the Weldar theme instead of the Lord Woo Fak Fak theme.

The one BK songs i want in smash aren't in: Final Battle and Click Clock Wood

 

[RingJ5]

The one thing that really makes me not think m that Cacomallow is legit is basically the inverse of the whole “why haven’t we seen them yet” thing: Why on earth would Nintendo be making Mii Costumes so far in advance to begin with? Cacomallow doesn’t line up at all with the much more credible Mii Costume list when you think about it that way.

If they had character-specific Mii Costumes done up that far in advance, Terry should have basically leaked back in June, and possibly even #5 as well.

Even if you go with the previously-reported idea that they only work on three characters at a time, it doesn’t quite match up either way you count it.

(Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero) (Banjo, Terry, Byleth) (Arms, #7, #8) should have meant that far more costumes leaked back in June if they really did work on them as far in advance as Cacomallow implies. And the list can’t be “Direct editor info” as such with costumes like Mallow on it and Sans not, it had to come from an internal source.

(Joker, Hero, Banjo) (Terry, Byleth, Arms) (#7, #8, #9) is an even worse proposition as it implies that both of the Cacomallow costumes are supposed to come with the Arms character, which would be a timeline that none of us want to be in.

More to the point, though, why make costumes so insanely far in advance to begin with? If they’re so easy and quick to do, why leave them hanging around so ridiculously early in advance especially after one of the few real leaks that got out was specifically a real list of Mii Costumes? You’d think that the better idea would be to wait and create them closer to launch specifically in the hopes that nothing gets leaked again.

While the costumes themselves are pitch-perfect, I’ll give the leak that, it’s all the circumstances surrounding it that really, really don’t quite add up for me. I still have hopes for Geno through the costume list itself, though- actually, wait a second.

What if the reason that Sans wasn’t on the list to begin with is that Geno was intended to be the very first “premium costume” to come with Hero, but got promoted at the last second, and the list just flat-out didn’t include premium costumes? That would explain why both Sans and Geno are missing from the list.

...In fact, going down that path a bit more, it would actually support Cacomallow while at the same time, sorry to say, not exactly supporting a playable Slayer in the same way as it does Geno.

Because, it actually answers the question of “Why would they already have costumes done for #7 and #8 back in October, while they were still working on Terry and Byleth?” because they didn’t. They had a costume created for #6’s wave paired with a costume created way, way back for #2 that got delayed at the last minute when its associated character got promoted.

I’ve basically talked myself into now believing that Cacomallow is much more likely to be legit, though not exactly in the way that I once assumed that the leak was going for.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Gonna re-iterate my hot take here:

Geno already has the Mii List, Cacomallow is bigger for Doomguy.

Or any Bethesda rep, really. Bethesda has more franchises than just Doom.

Also if Marty was under NDA I still don't believe he'd be allowed to go into the amount of detail he did. He specifically mentioned that none of it trickled down to Id software (and SOME developer involvement would be required between the Doom and Smash devs to portray Doom Slayer accurately.) Developer involvement wouldn't be needed for a Mii head, though, since it's just a model. But it does affirm that Nintendo did have talks with the Bethesda higher ups.

What baffles me is that nobody's bothered to ask Todd Howard these same questions in interviews to see what the other side of Bethesda is doing regarding this, which would allow us to piece the whole picture together (and compare hypothetical Todd answers to Marty's answers).

 

[MattX20]

So, you know how some characters can swim while others take damage more quickly due to it? Would Geno be the former or the latter?

 

[Polarthief]

The one thing that really makes me not think m that Cacomallow is legit is basically the inverse of the whole “why haven’t we seen them yet” thing: Why on earth would Nintendo be making Mii Costumes so far in advance to begin with?

Why were songs taken down 6-9 months in advance? Sans was also heard for quite awhile, some heard not as a fighter as well.

Cacomallow doesn’t line up at all with the much more credible Mii Costume list when you think about it that way.

Sorry what list are you referring to? The Mii Costume Leaker who has said Smithy and Mallow (but no Geno) or something else entirely? If the latter, could you please link a source?

If they had character-specific Mii Costumes done up that far in advance, Terry should have basically leaked back in June, and possibly even #5 as well.

Not everything leaks as easily.

I'll just say that the timing isn't really all that important just yet. If after June we don't see Geno and both #7 and 8 have been revealed, that's when I'd really start to question the timing. Right now, it's not like it's been an outlandish amount of time.

 

[Griselda]

Do we know how many characters are typically developed at the same time, regardless of how much focus each receives? If most of the focus was on Terry/Byleth, but Geno/Doom was still being developed at the same time, too - even if only something as far as creating empty files for him in preparation - then that could explain the apparent time gap in the costume/character work.

 

[StarLight42]

Here's mine!

Spoiler

View attachment 269104

Do those people honestly believe throwing around baseless accusations like that does anything but making them look bad? Gotta lowkey cringe everytime I read something like "Oh fans of X only want them because of bandwagoning/memes/whatever". Heck, who even cares what reason someone wants a character for?

Also unrelated but last night I had a dream about Fatman and me sitting in a Discord call chatting about gardening and he had the absolute smoothest voice imaginable... should I be worried about strangers on the internet showing up in my dreams?

That's a nice template! I had to make my own!

Anyways, as for the topic of Smash speculation in general, I haven't been very invested at all lately. I only check this thread from time to time but I use to go on GameFaQs and frequented a few Discord servers.

I stopped paying attention to Discord in late March because of some personal problems and the fact that speculation was getting really insufferable (not that it hadn't been insufferable already). I miss talking to certain folks on Papagenos' discord server, but there was also a lot of toxic people there so the tradeoff isn't worth it especially in a time like this where speculation is at an all time stagnation level and last I remember being there it was basically Minmin/Twintelle/Ribbon Girl/Spring man vs. Max Brass although i doubt many of the people on the max brass side of things actually cared about him lol. They just want him as an excuse to say spirits don't deconfirm fighters, even though they'll come up with new rules as to why character "x" can't make it in after the spirit rule is dead.

Like I said, insufferable. I'm bummed that I can't talk to the nice people there anymore but like I said the tradeoff simply isn't worth it, to constantly have a circlejerk of negativity thrown in your face.

The Mini Direct sucked in my opinion so there's also not much else to speculate about. The 3D Mario remastered rumor is incredible and would absolutely make 2020 for me if it plays out how the rumor says. But i'd like to wait and see what form it takes exactly before getting my hopes up. I hope it's not just a bunch of ports. I've always been jealous of Zelda getting the remaster treatment and Mario being given jack squat in that regard.

 

[link2702]

man there just isn't much to discuss anymore atm is there...?

We know nothing until june, FP season 1 is done, and all we know of 2 is an Arms rep and not even who.

Leakers are dead(figuratively speaking of course). We've discussed the same topics to death now.(moveset potential, VA potentials, SMRPG in general, His taunts, stage, music, Etc.), And we can't meme post, speculate, or much anything else anymore without getting a banhammer.

And most of y'all really can't even leave your homes(my job is considered "essential" so thankfully I'm still employed atm....), so we're all stuck here without much to really do....

 

[axel_]

Or any Bethesda rep, really. Bethesda has more franchises than just Doom.

Not sure what hurts more, the fact that Doom is under the shackles of Bethesda or people discrediting the potential for Doom in Smash for post-F76 Fallout and Skyrim (because Smash fans don't care about the other Elder Scrolls games)

 

[Icewolff92]

I find it funny how some people also use Mario RPG not releasing in Europe as an argument against Geno since the re-releases didn’t come until years later and many people would have no idea who he was.
Yet neither did Earthbound...

The "not releasing in Europe" ain¨t an argument against him. It is an argument, pointing out that he might not be as well known as we like him to be/assume just because he is technically a Mario character (at least from my understanding).

 

[MattX20]

Hmm...did we ever discuss Geno's Geno beam gun design? You think they would reuse the Mii Gunner one or go for something closer to the sprites?

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm...did we ever discuss Geno's Geno beam gun design? You think they would reuse the Mii Gunner one or go for something closer to the sprites?

I think closer to the sprite.

 

[Polarthief]

Hmm...did we ever discuss Geno's Geno beam gun design? You think they would reuse the Mii Gunner one or go for something closer to the sprites?

Are you saying the gun itself or the actual laser? I assume you mean the actual laser, in which case, it should be way closer to Robin's Thoron than it is the Samus/Mii Gunner/so-many-others' classic "charge shot". In-game (SMRPG), it instantaneously appears and disappears at the entire range, but I think Thoron would be a fair balance tweak (since an inf range laser just appearing would be pretty unfair).

Also while we've talked a lot in the past regarding Timed Hits, do you guys think they might use FP for Geno, similar to how Hero uses MP for all his specials? Thoron would be pretty busted if you have unlimited casts of it. Honestly, I'd be fine with an FP/MP-style resource for Geno, provided his specials feel impactful. Despite the limitation, I'd end up loving him more because I'm rather a big fan of specials that have oomph behind them (it's why I don't play characters like Mario and likely why I enjoy KKR, Terry, and Byleth way more than I expected), and I could definitely see some oomph with his spells from the game.

 

[MattX20]

Are you saying the gun itself or the actual laser? I assume you mean the actual laser, in which case, it should be way closer to Robin's Thoron than it is the Samus/Mii Gunner/so-many-others' classic "charge shot". In-game (SMRPG), it instantaneously appears and disappears at the entire range, but I think Thoron would be a fair balance tweak (since an inf range laser just appearing would be pretty unfair).

Also while we've talked a lot in the past regarding Timed Hits, do you guys think they might use FP for Geno, similar to how Hero uses MP for all his specials? Thoron would be pretty busted if you have unlimited casts of it. Honestly, I'd be fine with an FP/MP-style resource for Geno, provided his specials feel impactful. Despite the limitation, I'd end up loving him more because I'm rather a big fan of specials that have oomph behind them (it's why I don't play characters like Mario and likely why I enjoy KKR, Terry, and Byleth way more than I expected), and I could definitely see some oomph with his spells from the game.

The gun itself

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Not sure what hurts more, the fact that Doom is under the shackles of Bethesda or people discrediting the potential for Doom in Smash for post-F76 Fallout and Skyrim (because Smash fans don't care about the other Elder Scrolls games)

It's the opposite. It's Doom fans discrediting other Bethesda properties most of the time. They insist that anything that relates to Smash and Bethesda (such as leaks, hints, etc.) HAS to be Doom and can't possibly anything else, and will often be hostile towards fans who want to see other Bethesda franchises in the game. Either way Cacodemon could come with any Bethesda character, and it has no effect on Geno.
Also I love Morrowind and Oblivion. Don't generalize us. We simply choose Dragonborn because he's the most recent non-spinoff protagonist from the most critically acclaimed and successful game in the franchise (not unlike Joker). Plus if you've seen the Dragonborn content image (below). I've mixed tons of Morrowind and Oblivion content into Dragonborn's challenger pack.

Anyway, let's get back on topic. None of this will have an impact on Geno. Either of them could validate CacoMallow.

 

[Polarthief]

The gun itself

Bayo (despite being very colored) and Joker have actual gun-looking guns. I don't think it'd be as much of a problem as it used to be if Geno got his weirdo gun.

I mean, take a look for yourself and tell me if this looks so not allowed vs what Joker and Bayo have.
PS: That's the same "gun" used for Hand Gun as well. It looks like an electric coil thing.
PPS: I couldn't find an "attacks animation" video, so please excuse me for using Vinny Vinesauce's LP for Hand Gun.

So... yeah, I don't see why it can't look like that when Joker and Bayo have actual guns. If anything, Geno's "gun" doesn't remotely look like a gun. The only thing that could be questionable is all the bullets, but they're also very small and round, like little minuscule cannonballs (and actually small cannonballs when you get to Hand Cannon). They don't at all look like actual bullets, but that still might be a possible red flag.

 

[RingJ5]

Why were songs taken down 6-9 months in advance? Sans was also heard for quite awhile, some heard not as a fighter as well.



Sorry what list are you referring to? The Mii Costume Leaker who has said Smithy and Mallow (but no Geno) or something else entirely? If the latter, could you please link a source?



Not everything leaks as easily.

I'll just say that the timing isn't really all that important just yet. If after June we don't see Geno and both #7 and 8 have been revealed, that's when I'd really start to question the timing. Right now, it's not like it's been an outlandish amount of time.

1. My hypothesis at the end is that they were basically planning to go all-out on Geno’s costume, both having him as the very first premium costume along with bonus non-premium costumes for Mallow and Smithy, before things changed at the last minute and he was promoted.

This would completely line up with the takedowns, as they could have been not for the character itself but for said costume, just like Sans’ was. Moreover, regardless of Mii status, they had all the copyrights settled in early November, before the takedowns started.

2. I’m referring to the Mallow/Smithy leaker, yes, who not just had no Geno, but no Sans. Not having Sans on his list is actually more important than most people are considering, I think.

I’m putting forward a theory that it was specifically a list of “regular” costumes left over after Hero’s presentation was all set, and Geno was potentially promoted. Geno and Sans counted as premium, and thus weren’t on the list to begin with.

3. Sure, not everything leaks easily, but here’s where the logic between both examples breaks down, in my opinion:

In one example, you have a list of Mii Costumes that spans multiple waves, being a bunch of supposedly-cut costumes from Wave #2 and the non-premium costumes from Wave #3. Wave #2 is launching in about a month (the list was leaked mid-June or so) and Wave #3 is launching in three months. It does not include any costumes, premium or otherwise, from Wave #4, which is launching in five months.

In the other example, you have two costumes being worked on in October 2019. In the event that both are intended to be tied to full character reveals from their same series, the absolute best case scenario(not involving virus-related delays that couldn’t be foreseen in October) would be that the costumes themselves wouldn’t be needed until roughly a full nine and eleven months from the date that you are working on them, because even in the event of a big E3 double-reveal in June, you won’t actually even be needing the costumes themselves until later when the involved characters actually release.

On top of all that, perhaps most damningly, is that working on said costumes that ridiculously early is just asking for a repeat of the original costume list leak, and with Nintendo as leak-conscious as they are, I doubt that they’d want to get anywhere close to something like that even remotely happening again.

Particularly when considering the whole “they work on these characters in batches of three” thing, the idea that they’d be working on Mii Costumes for #7 and #8 before they’ve even properly launched #4 doesn’t add up to me, it would be a very, very strange use of resources especially when considering prior leaks that got out.

If it turned out that we’re seeing a fully-completed-yet-cut(due to Geno’s potential promotion) costume from #2 and a Ubisoft-esque “new publisher costume” from #6, though? That makes far more sense to me. It also lines up with the “three-stack” quite well.

What also lines up with the three-stack quite well is that whole “why couldn’t the Mii Costume leaker get Terry’s costumes” thing: because Banjo was the end of the first batch.

 

[Deleted member]

Then how do you explain this. By the way, this is coming from someone who's a huge Banjo fanatic. So, they're not "butchering" the tracks at all.

What does this change? Just because Sakurai said he thinks the songs aren't suited to fighting, doesn't mean they aren't. This is literally my complaint, he says they're not suited to battle, despite the fact they're fine as is, meaning we get previously good songs completely ruined.

By the way, this is coming from someone who's a huge Banjo fan (I consider the first game to be one of my favourite games, and unironically enjoy N&B). So, they absolutely are butchering the tracks.

If you like the remixes then by all means you can, but that won't change what I think about them.

 

[Deleted member]

The reason Mii Costume Guy doesn’t have Geno on this list may simply be the fact that there were no plans to bring him for season 2 from the start especially with some updated costume. I find it unlikely, that not 2 but 3 costumes from the same game plus Chocobo goes with an unrelated Square fighter. Takes away some representation don’t you think? When Nintendo decided to do more DLC back at E3, they may simply forget about the costume with Hero and promote him. The idea of the “Premium Costume” came back when Sans and Cuphead costumes were revealed and everyone sees Geno as a perfect fit. You’re basically just putting extra effort, assets, time, and resources to update a costume as Nintendo still earn 75 cents. They can simply bring it back. If updating costumes is a potential thing now, who else could they update?

 

[Griselda]

On the topic of mii costumes, I would've preferred the Tails and Knuckles hats be helmets like the so-called premium costumes. Knuckles, at least, I can just give big eyes and mess around with wrinkles and such until he looks more or less passable as the real thing, but Tails.. Tails just looks ridiculous. Which, I might add, is exactly why I feel cacomallow is probably real, because that Mallow looks just as off-putting. It's exactly the kind of thing Nintendo would do, to be honest.

 

[Plank08]

Hiya! Been a while, hows GenoGang doing?

 

[Powerman293]

Hiya! Been a while, hows GenoGang doing?

In the past few days not much. But since the Mini Direct, Geno's chances have possibly shot up a lot.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Some things I want to clarify:
1. Cacodemon ≠ Doom Slayer for Smash. I've said it several times before but I keep seeing it and it bugs me. If Ubisoft can get Rabbids and Altäir as costumes and still not have a fighter, it is perfectly reasonable to say that the Cacodemon costume could just come with Geno to rep Bethesda or it comes with Slayer and Mallow comes with along with Geno. You're killing me, smalls.

2. I am still very confident that the premium costumes are meant for Indies and not for big legal characters. I'm also not willing to believe that they're going to add a third Gunner costume in a row, if at all. That's just ludicrous at that point.

3. About development: I think people forget that working on up to 4 or 5 characters at a time is not completely absurd. Sakurai was working on Plant, Joker, Hero, and Banjo in December and the last of those 4 didn't come out until ten months later in September. Even then, he had started work on Terry by at least July because he had an animated in-game model prior to August, which we know was when the Banjo mini direct was filmed. That's 5 characters in 8 months. Who's to say they couldn't work on #7 and #8 by starting production in November, especially if the DLC had been discussed prior? If anything, by that account, he could be working as deep as #9 and #10 at this point.

 

[Polarthief]

1. My hypothesis at the end is that they were basically planning to go all-out on Geno’s costume, both having him as the very first premium costume along with bonus non-premium costumes for Mallow and Smithy

But like, why? Why continue to bring so much attention to the game but not actually have content outside of... costumes? (and also the Palutena's Guidance for Piranha Plant mentioning Megasmilax)

Also regarding the premium costumes, I still think it's reserved for indies and other new characters that don't, or simply, "can't" quite make it in for one reason or another. Both so far are indies that got very popular. Obs just an unconfirmed pattern as we only have a population size of 2, but who knows.

2. I’m referring to the Mallow/Smithy leaker, yes, who not just had no Geno, but no Sans. Not having Sans on his list is actually more important than most people are considering, I think.

How does CacoMallow not line up with Mii Costume Leaker? It has Mallow right there. We've only seen two costumes come out of CacoMallow, and MCL's list is supposedly for Wave 2 and 3. It's the fact that they heard Mallow/Smithy that is important, not the timing of it. Geno could have absolutely been in FP1, or maybe the costumes were, but they dumped them because it sure would be weird to have Mallow/Smithy but no Geno.

I’m putting forward a theory that it was specifically a list of “regular” costumes left over after Hero’s presentation was all set, and Geno was potentially promoted. Geno and Sans counted as premium, and thus weren’t on the list to begin with.

That still doesn't cause conflict between the two leaks, outside of Cacodemon who probably wasn't heard at the time.

3. Sure, not everything leaks easily, but here’s where the logic between both examples breaks down, in my opinion:

In one example, you have a list of Mii Costumes that spans multiple waves, being a bunch of supposedly-cut costumes from Wave #2 and the non-premium costumes from Wave #3. Wave #2 is launching in about a month (the list was leaked mid-June or so) and Wave #3 is launching in three months. It does not include any costumes, premium or otherwise, from Wave #4, which is launching in five months.

In the other example, you have two costumes being worked on in October 2019. In the event that both are intended to be tied to full character reveals from their same series, the absolute best case scenario(not involving virus-related delays that couldn’t be foreseen in October) would be that the costumes themselves wouldn’t be needed until roughly a full nine and eleven months from the date that you are working on them, because even in the event of a big E3 double-reveal in June, you won’t actually even be needing the costumes themselves until later when the involved characters actually release.

I don't see how the work being done earlier is a problem though. Procrastination is never a good thing. Also it's totally possible that the people who make the costumes aren't the same people working on the additional characters.

Also regarding the time of the leak (July last year), it's entirely possible they heard Geno (as that's who Sakurai potentially wanted in FP1) and assumed a few things. I don't know what happened or why, but I still trust the leak that has a video of characters bouncing around and modders have been unsuccessful in trying to replicate it, moreso than text on a screen that has been incorrect thus far (only regarding the Mallow, Smithy, and Chocobo costumes). That means we either have SuperModder on our hands, or it's just a legitimate leak.

If it turned out that we’re seeing a fully-completed-yet-cut(due to Geno’s potential promotion) costume from #2 and a Ubisoft-esque “new publisher costume” from #6, though? That makes far more sense to me. It also lines up with the “three-stack” quite well.

Dunno why you're mentioning Ubisoft, especially as "new for #6" when we just got Ubisoft costumes with Byleth (#5; Altair and Rabbids).
Also unsure what you're talking about regarding #2 (I assume Hero?). Are you saying we'll be "seeing a premium Geno costume in this next wave"? That's not going to happen because Square Enix doesn't drop their stuff with the "filthy peasantry of non-SE content". Considering we already know #6 isn't a SE rep (because it's one-or-more from ARMS), that won't happen.

What also lines up with the three-stack quite well is that whole “why couldn’t the Mii Costume leaker get Terry’s costumes” thing: because Banjo was the end of the first batch.

I don't really believe in the batches thing anyway and we have no confirmation on that. IIRC, isn't that just an assumption made by the fans?

TL;DR: Lord knows why we haven't seen Chocobo, Mallow, Smithy, and Geno costumes yet, but I have a feeling the direct in June will be very revealing.

 

[YsDisciple]

Stumbled upon this gem on Twitter seeing as PapaGenos retweeted it. Man... now this is a Godsend mixture of elements.

What would Banjo-Kazooie look like as a Mario RPG-like game... BUT NOW IN MOTION?!

(Original concept by @atbigelow
) #pixelart #banjokazooie@RareLtd pic.twitter.com/ksQ3iG5lC2

— Jon Davies 🦖 🔜 WASD (Sat) 🔜 BitSummit (@SovanJedi) April 14, 2020

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Hmm...did we ever discuss Geno's Geno beam gun design? You think they would reuse the Mii Gunner one or go for something closer to the sprites?

Gosh I hope it's based off the sprite. I will be super disappointed if they put all this work into other characters and just lazily slap old assets on that would make Geno look like his Mii costume instead of like him.

 

[Polarthief]

Stumbled upon this gem on Twitter seeing as PapaGenos retweeted it. Man... now this is a Godsend mixture of elements.

What would Banjo-Kazooie look like as a Mario RPG-like game... BUT NOW IN MOTION?!

(Original concept by @atbigelow
) #pixelart #banjokazooie@RareLtd pic.twitter.com/ksQ3iG5lC2

— Jon Davies 🦖 🔜 WASD (Sat) 🔜 BitSummit (@SovanJedi) April 14, 2020

It's cool, but reminds me way more of M&L than it does SMRPG. I know it didn't say "SMRPG", but yeah, that's definitely M&L-esque. Still really well done though!

Gosh I hope it's based off the sprite. I will be super disappointed if they put all this work into other characters and just lazily slap old assets on that would make Geno look like his Mii costume instead of like him.

There's honestly no reason it can't be based on the sprite, and after all that Sakurai has done for Ultimate, I doubt he would do Geno dirty. I did talk about how the not-at-all-like-real-life bullets might be an issue, but they also might not. The "gun" itself though, which doesn't look like a gun AT ALL, shouldn't be an issue when Bayo and Joker have ACTUAL GUNS.

 

[Firox]

So, you know how some characters can swim while others take damage more quickly due to it? Would Geno be the former or the latter?

Well, wood tends to be pretty buoyant so I think he'd be his own flotation device.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it so fascinating how this topic rears its ugly head so often in this thread. I made this the other day in response to a joke but it unfortunately is relevant more often than I care to think.

And yes I used the full image because maybe the sheer size of it will nail the point home.

For the third or fourth time, let me go over why "premium costume" is a flawed concept, starting with the fact that it's a term from a leak that got proven totally fake within a few days of it being posted to /v/. In my honest opinion using the phrase is giving that clown a lot more credit than he deserves.

Next up, it's totally opinion driven what makes a costume "premium". The gripe with Mii costumes stems from salt, plain and simple. Characters are robbed when they're turned into a Mii costume and no one likes the Mii fighters to begin with - that's the mindset. I'd be interested to peek into a universe in which no fan-loved character ever got turned into a Mii costume aside from indies that never stood a chance in the first place; would people be ok with the Mii fighters then? Would every costume be considered a winner?

Look, I get it, Mii fighters are kind of cartoony - borderline chibi. They don't fit for every character without looking like a guy in a mascot costume at the football game. But, it works sometimes. I mean, look at this thing:

Was some care not taken to stay true to the Custom Robo design?

The point I'm making is of course Sans looks right. He's a chunky skeleton man from a game with a unique art style. Ness and Lucas would probably look fine as Mii costumes. The next thing you're going to tell me is that Sans looks right because he has a full head instead of relying on you to make a customized face, to which I reply:

The only crime this costume commits is that people wanted Black Knight and Black Knight is not canonically a stocky little dude. If it weren't for that, the costume would look pretty good. If Mii fighters had anime proportions, most of the costumes would feel "premium" or otherwise special because they'd look right. To be perfectly honest, they're picking the wrong characters to make costumes from. One stands out to me, which I brought up in the past but Smashboards was having image problems that day, so I'll bring it up again: Goemon.

A lot of people don't know Goemon, and I think that's why this goes underappreciated, but his costume is close to perfect without needing a full head replacement. Look, I agree that Miis are ugly. They've been ugly since 2006. They're so low quality, especially when juxtaposed with the cast of Smash that it's unsettling, but take a good hard look at this:

and compare it to the real deal

and the realer deal

Borderline chibi, stocky build, cartoonish proportions. I love Goemon and really wish he were a real fighter, but this is good. This costume is great. It's not perfect, but neither is Sans and neither is Cuphead. At least when Goemon gets hit or does an attack, his expression changes. Sans and Cuphead remain having that goofy grin no matter what. That's the tradeoff - you literally get a guy in a mascot suit.

If they intended to bring Geno's costume back, we'd have it, unaltered, because not only was it pretty darn close to the real deal, but you really expect that Square ****ing Enix was gonna put more effort into the costume just to have Nintendo sell it for 75 cents? And you people really believe the would come with two songs? I know our boy's special but Geno ain't that special. There's no way that Toby Fox wouldn't have made more remixes or probably would have allowed more songs to come with Sans. Hell, unless it's something he's not allowed to talk about, someone could probably ask him and get a straight answer - he talked about the Sans costume on Twitter the other day. The costumes come with one song. That's it. That's how Nintendo wants to play it.

And I don't want to harp on it or sound like I'm playing down Geno, but really let it sink in that Geno is not that special. The idea that he's getting an upgraded costume when he already had a costume, or that he would come with something special, is literally just the wild machinations of detractors, coming up with literally any scenario in which Geno doesn't get in as a fighter so they can laugh at our misfortune. The funny part about this particular wild machination is that it paints Geno as some kind of sacred cow who deserves all of this pomp but somehow doesn't deserve to be a fighter.

 

[GodzillaGuy64]

What does this change? Just because Sakurai said he thinks the songs aren't suited to fighting, doesn't mean they aren't. This is literally my complaint, he says they're not suited to battle, despite the fact they're fine as is, meaning we get previously good songs completely ruined.

By the way, this is coming from someone who's a huge Banjo fan (I consider the first game to be one of my favourite games, and unironically enjoy N&B). So, they absolutely are butchering the tracks.

If you like the remixes then by all means you can, but that won't change what I think about them.

Let's agree to disagree shall we?

 

[Slender]

Hello everyone!
On the topic of songs, I'd like to bring back this tidbit of information I gathered last July! We are all aware of the 2 songs joke, but given Geno's unique case, we would receive more than 2 songs if he becomes a fighter, whether or not Square would want to cough up more than 2 themselves.

This is because Koji Kondo did in fact make a handful of tracks for Super Mario RPG; every track by Koji Kondo was a remix/remaster of a previous Mario series tunes, or included pieces of said tunes. This would place them under the property of Nintendo, not Square, giving them free reign to put them in as they please. At least, that is what I am assuming from this.

Super Mario Bros. Ground
Let's Try
In The Flower Garden
Super Pipe House
Let's Play 'Geno'
Long Long Ago...
The Axem Rangers Drop
In The End!

Super Mario Bros. Underground
From Inside the Earthen Pipe

Super Mario Bros. Invincible
Invincible Star

Super Mario Bros. 3 Spade Puzzle
Heart Beating a Little Faster

Super Mario Bros. 3 King Koopa Battle
Fight Against Koopa
Koopa Castle (Second Time)

For a neat fact, the opening melody of Koopa Castle (Second Time) was actually used after it's creation in a Nintendo game once again, as part of Bowser's Magma Mountain in Mario Party! https://youtu.be/wcHBAVREJZQ?t=79

However, if Nintendo does actually hold the rights to these songs, I assume they would not be able to do much with them in their pure form as they are still listed under SMRPG. They can reuse melodies, as seen with Mario Party, but I believe they would have to be working with Square to use the tracks while still keeping them completely intact.

 

[StarLight42]

I find it so fascinating how this topic rears its ugly head so often in this thread. I made this the other day in response to a joke but it unfortunately is relevant more often than I care to think.

View attachment 269191
And yes I used the full image because maybe the sheer size of it will nail the point home.

For the third or fourth time, let me go over why "premium costume" is a flawed concept, starting with the fact that it's a term from a leak that got proven totally fake within a few days of it being posted to /v/. In my honest opinion using the phrase is giving that clown a lot more credit than he deserves.

Next up, it's totally opinion driven what makes a costume "premium". The gripe with Mii costumes stems from salt, plain and simple. Characters are robbed when they're turned into a Mii costume and no one likes the Mii fighters to begin with - that's the mindset. I'd be interested to peek into a universe in which no fan-loved character ever got turned into a Mii costume aside from indies that never stood a chance in the first place; would people be ok with the Mii fighters then? Would every costume be considered a winner?

Look, I get it, Mii fighters are kind of cartoony - borderline chibi. They don't fit for every character without looking like a guy in a mascot costume at the football game. But, it works sometimes. I mean, look at this thing:
View attachment 269195
Was some care not taken to stay true to the Custom Robo design?

The point I'm making is of course Sans looks right. He's a chunky skeleton man from a game with a unique art style. Ness and Lucas would probably look fine as Mii costumes. The next thing you're going to tell me is that Sans looks right because he has a full head instead of relying on you to make a customized face, to which I reply:
View attachment 269196
The only crime this costume commits is that people wanted Black Knight and Black Knight is not canonically a stocky little dude. If it weren't for that, the costume would look pretty good. If Mii fighters had anime proportions, most of the costumes would feel "premium" or otherwise special because they'd look right. To be perfectly honest, they're picking the wrong characters to make costumes from. One stands out to me, which I brought up in the past but Smashboards was having image problems that day, so I'll bring it up again: Goemon.

A lot of people don't know Goemon, and I think that's why this goes underappreciated, but his costume is close to perfect without needing a full head replacement. Look, I agree that Miis are ugly. They've been ugly since 2006. They're so low quality, especially when juxtaposed with the cast of Smash that it's unsettling, but take a good hard look at this:
View attachment 269198

and compare it to the real deal
View attachment 269199

and the realer deal
View attachment 269200

Borderline chibi, stocky build, cartoonish proportions. I love Goemon and really wish he were a real fighter, but this is good. This costume is great. It's not perfect, but neither is Sans and neither is Cuphead. At least when Goemon gets hit or does an attack, his expression changes. Sans and Cuphead remain having that goofy grin no matter what. That's the tradeoff - you literally get a guy in a mascot suit.

If they intended to bring Geno's costume back, we'd have it, unaltered, because not only was it pretty darn close to the real deal, but you really expect that Square ****ing Enix was gonna put more effort into the costume just to have Nintendo sell it for 75 cents? And you people really believe the would come with two songs? I know our boy's special but Geno ain't that special. There's no way that Toby Fox wouldn't have made more remixes or probably would have allowed more songs to come with Sans. Hell, unless it's something he's not allowed to talk about, someone could probably ask him and get a straight answer - he talked about the Sans costume on Twitter the other day. The costumes come with one song. That's it. That's how Nintendo wants to play it.

And I don't want to harp on it or sound like I'm playing down Geno, but really let it sink in that Geno is not that special. The idea that he's getting an upgraded costume when he already had a costume, or that he would come with something special, is literally just the wild machinations of detractors, coming up with literally any scenario in which Geno doesn't get in as a fighter so they can laugh at our misfortune. The funny part about this particular wild machination is that it paints Geno as some kind of sacred cow who deserves all of this pomp but somehow doesn't deserve to be a fighter.

You have no idea how accurate that bird meme is to some of the interactions I would have on Discord.

 

[Firox]

You have no idea how accurate that bird meme is to some of the interactions I would have on Discord.

Wait, you mean I can't spew out completely baseless statements like they're an iron-clad FACT? I thought this was the internet. You know, the place where it's my divine right to **** on everyone else's thoughts, feelings and ideas with complete impunity...

 

[SSGuy]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Something to keep in mind with the Cacodemon hat in particular. The Mii Hats that wrap around the face will clip thru the outfit. This is because the Mii Outfit gives little to no neck room for the Mii himself. Chain Chomp will also clip thru, but because it's lower jaw sticks out, it won't be as noticeable as the other examples.

I will provide images as an example later.

Edit: "The trim on all these wrap around are cut differently, so the trim around Cacodemon's face hole does not seem to be the same as Chain Chomps. A lot of that has to do with the Mouth on the Cacodemon not being as wide as the Chain Chomp's. I still think mod or not, these match one to one on the model trim that the Nintendo team has made for other Mii hats

The good news is, it more bolsters the argument for Cacomallow being real than it does about Cacomallow being fake.

 

[Polarthief]

his is because Koji Kondo did in fact make a handful of tracks for Super Mario RPG; every track by Koji Kondo was a remix/remaster of a previous Mario series tunes, or included pieces of said tunes.

It also depends on who actually owns the music. If it's SE then yeah, GG. But if it's the composer, in this case, mostly Shimomura, then we could get a truckload of songs since she's not hard to work with (like Uematsu and Sugiyama have been known to be).

You have no idea how accurate that bird meme is to some of the interactions I would have on Discord.

It's accurate everywhere for sure, and I don't even know the original words. The pictures do all the talking.

Wait, you mean I can't spew out completely baseless statements like they're an iron-clad FACT?

I mean, no one's physically stopping you from doing it... Imagine if there was; what a deterrent that would be.

The good news is, it more bolsters the argument for Cacomallow being real than it does about Cacomallow being fake.

Which all-in-all is the most important part! I really do think CacoMallow is real. This isn't a Grinch Leak situation where people were arguing in favor of both sides; it's pretty one-sided when modders themselves outright admit they cannot replicate it to be remotely close to as clean as the leak is. Unless SuperModder here is the only one who has found a way to mod like this, it's the real deal, and I really do not see Mallow getting a costume with Geno returning as one as well.

At that point, it's just a guessing game if you're gonna get Doomguy or not with Cacodemon, though I personally don't really care, I just want Geno.