Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Powerman293]

I need to ask the people who hate Geno why they dislike him so much lol

 

[SSGuy]

I need to ask the people who hate Geno why they dislike him so much lol

It's probably not worth it. Just focus on the people who actually care and do your part to highlight the good people who are on your side. We will out number these guys again in no time.

 

[StarLight42]

I need to ask the people who hate Geno why they dislike him so much lol

There’s almost no point in doing that. They will pretend he was their most wanted character after he is confirmed. Examples: King Krool, Banjo. Smash trolls are some of the most desperate people ive ever seen lol

 

[UberMadman]

There’s almost no point in doing that. They will pretend he was their most wanted character after he is confirmed. Examples: King Krool, Banjo. Smash trolls are some of the most desperate people ive ever seen lol

I think it’s more so that after they got in, their fans got vocal and their detractors got silent.

 

[Polarthief]

There’s almost no point in doing that. They will pretend he was their most wanted character after he is confirmed. Examples: King Krool, Banjo. Smash trolls are some of the most desperate people ive ever seen lol

People are nuts. I'll at least stand by my convictions of characters I actively don't want even after they're put in. That said, the characters I don't want are so unlikely to happen because of how big they are that I might be amazed that they actually got in while still being disappointed in it... except for Urshifu. They're totally possible and I'll be livid if they make it (before Geno; anyone after Geno, I won't give a crap about).

 

[MarioTime]

There’s almost no point in doing that. They will pretend he was their most wanted character after he is confirmed. Examples: King Krool, Banjo. Smash trolls are some of the most desperate people ive ever seen lol

I remember when Ridley was one of the most hated smash requests but when he got announced for Ultimate everyone suddenly became a Ridley fan

 

[Polarthief]

I remember when Ridley was one of the most hated smash requests but when he got announced for Ultimate everyone suddenly became a Ridley fan

I'm still firmly in the "that's neat." crowd, just like how I was saying "it'd be neat if he got in, but I really don't care either way" prior.

KKR was a bit cooler to me since I grew up more with DKC than I did Metroid (first Metroid was Prime 1/Fusion; I missed SM rip), but even he too was just a "oh that's cool", even after he became my main pre-Joker.

 

[EditorMax]

I remember when Ridley was one of the most hated smash requests but when he got announced for Ultimate everyone suddenly became a Ridley fan

Ridley was VERY similar to Geno- sort of seen as so impossible that his inclusion became a meme, mainly with negativity attached to it, but he had a very dedicated support base.

It's a shame though- his inclusion is so cool, but as a character he's not necessarily super powerful or satisfying to play as, and I think that's caused his popularity to dip heavily post-release. Nothing makes me sadder than the concept of a character like Ridley or, god forbid, Banjo, being highly requested, included, and then dropped from the following game due to unpopularity in the playerbase from a subpar playstyle.

 

[Honest Slug]

I think anyone suggesting Geno or Ridley were hated Smash requests are way too online lol.

By nature of anonymous online accounts bringing the worst cretins a voice that can't be held accountable, and the nature of those who participate in fandom to get way too invested in corporations, we get the impression people are much more toxic about this stuff than they are. Do you really think the normie Smash player is going to burn their Switch and sell their copy of Smash because Geno doesn't have muh relevancy? 99.9% of people will move on with their lives and the keyboard warriors will move on to talking about how it's an ironclad rule that Sakurai won't add characters that have leather pants or whatever.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Again, there's really no point in analyzing something that is clearly not the same and is a super easy-to-find mod for Smash 4 that's existed for half a year.

And yet, you were the one who offered a link to a mod that, as you said "could've taken 20 seconds to find and it came out around the time as Cacomallow," almost as if to say the community was dumb despite your retort falling flat before it could even spread its wings. Here you are in hypocrisy, spelling out what YOU did, not I. I smell the scent of someone on denial.

Anyway, go Geno. Also, on the topic of Ridley and Banjo getting dropped by most people, I'm willing to bet it's because they aren't top tier or their moveset isn't what they wanted. Like, wtf did you expect when you asked for these characters? These are literally what you asked for.

 

[Powerman293]

Ridley was VERY similar to Geno- sort of seen as so impossible that his inclusion became a meme, mainly with negativity attached to it, but he had a very dedicated support base.

It's a shame though- his inclusion is so cool, but as a character he's not necessarily super powerful or satisfying to play as, and I think that's caused his popularity to dip heavily post-release. Nothing makes me sadder than the concept of a character like Ridley or, god forbid, Banjo, being highly requested, included, and then dropped from the following game due to unpopularity in the playerbase from a subpar playstyle.

Seems like the next Smash game is likely gonna be a reboot anyways, so most of the characters are gonna get cut.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Also , wanted to ask , beside Geno , who do you all wanna see in the Fighter Pass ?

It'll be great to see the boy in blue finally make it into Smash after all these years, but I also hope there's enough room leftover for another boy in blue...

 

[SSGuy]

It'll be great to see the boy in blue finally make it into Smash after all these years, but I also hope there's enough room leftover for another boy in blue...

We'll need him for all these defamation lawsuits we will be putting on the Geno detractors. We are going for their heads lol

 

[Malo Mart]

Honestly I see some anti-Ridley/K Rool/Banjo sentiment these days, but if you ask me, it mostly stems from people who are resentful about their fans and/or about the fact that those three aren't very "competitively friendly" per se.

Overall i think most people are actually either happy about them being in Smash or at least have moved past it. Geno is much of the same in that regard, some are furious that he's getting so much popularity now for whatever reason, but once he's in, that hate will blow over. So while Geno detractors can be annoying, I don't think there's much of a reason to fret. We've got this, guys!

 

[axel_]

almost as if to say the community was dumb

I mean, we are on Smashboards...

 

[RuffyYoshi]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.

 

[Malo Mart]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Here's my Waluigi Mii to the rescue:

I took this pic from my Switch itself instead of from my TV, so it might be a little off, but I think it's good enough to compare with the Cacodemon one. Also yes, Ken is there to give some much needed moral support.

 

[OnyanRings]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

Why would you take a picture of the mii costumes and not the fighter themselves ? Also, you'd think that something else would've leaked with how far in developement they seem to be. Maybe Geno and Doomguy were being worked on way before the end of the first pass but it's just something to consider.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

Why would you take a picture of the mii costumes and not the fighter themselves ? Also, you'd think that something else would've leaked with how far in developement they seem to be. Maybe Geno and Doomguy were being worked on way before the end of the first pass but it's just something to consider.

Mii costumes could easily be crafted in advance though, that's the thing. Also, if Ubisoft is anything to go by, we could just get Cacodemon but no Doom Slayer.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

Why would you take a picture of the mii costumes and not the fighter themselves ? Also, you'd think that something else would've leaked with how far in developement they seem to be. Maybe Geno and Doomguy were being worked on way before the end of the first pass but it's just something to consider.

Well , here's a possible answer ;

The person who leaked this was assigned to work on modeling these mii costumes , not the characters. Testing out how these costumes interact in a test match seem logical for that kind of situation.

 

[Heoj]

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

Why would you take a picture of the mii costumes and not the fighter themselves ? Also, you'd think that something else would've leaked with how far in developement they seem to be. Maybe Geno and Doomguy were being worked on way before the end of the first pass but it's just something to consider.

I find it a little strange when people ask why they didnt just leak the fighter and imo it really should not be that surprising to think about the possibility that there might be people who specifically work on fighters, and one smaller team who specifically work on miis. So it shouldnt be that suspicious that we only saw the miis and no fighter since its possible that the leaker just didnt have access to any new fighters.

 

[Icewolff92]

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

What leak?

 

[Lord Woomy]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Pfffft, okay it's obvious to me now.... the faker clearly just stole a Smash dev kit and used it to create a fake leak. Pay no attention to the CacoMallow behind the curtain, everyone!

 

[Deleted member]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Nice. Hacker attempts look jank pretty much 100% of the time, but this was a good eye. I have a problem, though:

Here's my Waluigi Mii to the rescue:

View attachment 269096

I took this pic from my Switch itself instead of from my TV, so it might be a little off, but I think it's good enough to compare with the Cacodemon one. Also yes, Ken is there to give some much needed moral support.

The corners of the Cacodemon hat seem to be very soft, where the corners on the Chain Chomp hat are pretty well defined - to rephrase that just in case I'm being unclear - the corners seem sharp on the official Chain Chomp hat. The Isabelle hat looks like it has more comparable geometry, to be honest. I'm not a big Mii Fighter guy, so I don't pay a ton of attention - but are there more face revealing hats like that? Much like how different hats sit at different angles, there may be different face openings for different "mascot heads".

I'm not trying to disprove your theory, by the way - if anything, I want to see it fortified. It's very important to challenge the assumptions we make and the conclusions we draw based on the comparatively great but still shoddy quality of the recording of this leak.


Something that just occurred to me as I was writing this post is a reason why we're looking at this weird situation in which the ARMS rep is being held off for a Byleth style reveal/release combo, and it made me remember something that I've stated in the past with regards to Cacomallow's legitimacy: Nintendo is in a weird spot to work around that leak, if they choose to do so. Granted, Nintendo rarely chooses to work around or mitigate leaks as much as they seem to just pretend the leak didn't exist and quietly dispose of the bodies later... but if we're really to believe that Nintendo effectively got Grinched just as much as we did, a leak of DLC costumes that implicates two potential fighters, one of them extremely popular, might be a bridge too far for them to ignore. The crux of my supposition here is that because the leak was so detailed, showing either of those hats in an official capacity spoils not just the other hat, but very likely the fighter that it comes with.

So, we often rack our brains over how we're waiting this long for Challenger Pack 6 when the best intelligence we have suggests that there's almost no earthly way the fighter wasn't being worked on since September at the latest (which would have put them on an April release much like Joker, if we're to believe ~8 month schedules), but if back in November they intended to show the ARMS fighter in March and release in April, it could be that they pushed them back so as not to spoil Challenger Pack 7 about two months in advance, and instead gave us a little something to hype up in place of the planned character announcement. So obviously you can tell where I'm heading, here:

Challenger Pack 6: Probably Spring Man, who will not come with any ARMS costumes much like Byleth came with no Fire Emblem costumes - comes with Cacodemon, possibly Doom Guy or some other Bethesda property, two returning costumes from the ever shrinking pile, and another indie that Fatman probably already knows about.

Challenger Pack 7: Geno, revealed right after the ARMS rep is truly revealed and before the presentation for the ARMS rep would reveal the costumes. Comes with Mallow and Smithy, along with the revered return of Chocobo and... I dunno, ****ing Gex, why not.

This way, we're not spoiled the characters by the hats, we're spoiled a hat by the other hat. Small potatoes compared to the identical Cacodemon hat showing up with Spring Man two whole months before we'd ever see Geno.

 

[Firox]

I need to ask the people who hate Geno why they dislike him so much lol

This, my friend, is the right question. But I will tell you, regardless of their answer, there is a 99.9% chance that their real reason for hating Geno simply boils down to the fact that they have another character they want and they can't stand the idea of any other character getting in but theirs.

 

[Rikarte]

I'll take the lazy approach and just post this list i made out of a template a while. I'd be pretty happy with any of these peeps and more:

View attachment 269072
also cacomallow is real, have i mentioned that yet?

Spoiler: Here's the template in case anyone wants it

View attachment 269071

Here's mine!

Spoiler

I'm having a hard time coming up with a good rebuttal to the claim the only reason people wanted Geno is because Sakurai mentioned Geno in an interview or somewhere. I know that people want Geno genuinely, but I have a hard time proving it to people when they can just say 'I don't believe you".

Do those people honestly believe throwing around baseless accusations like that does anything but making them look bad? Gotta lowkey cringe everytime I read something like "Oh fans of X only want them because of bandwagoning/memes/whatever". Heck, who even cares what reason someone wants a character for?

Also unrelated but last night I had a dream about Fatman and me sitting in a Discord call chatting about gardening and he had the absolute smoothest voice imaginable... should I be worried about strangers on the internet showing up in my dreams?

 

[RuffyYoshi]

The corners of the Cacodemon hat seem to be very soft, where the corners on the Chain Chomp hat are pretty well defined - to rephrase that just in case I'm being unclear - the corners seem sharp on the official Chain Chomp hat. The Isabelle hat looks like it has more comparable geometry, to be honest. I'm not a big Mii Fighter guy, so I don't pay a ton of attention - but are there more face revealing hats like that? Much like how different hats sit at different angles, there may be different face openings for different "mascot heads".

Yeah, I noticed comparing the Waluigi mii to the Cacodemon screenshot and there are some small differences with the face cutout. I dunno what to make of it other than MAYBE the cacodemon has a few small differences at the top corners to make it softer, however I think it depends on the shape of the mii's head since you can have multiple shapes for your mii (the waluigi mii has the slimmest face and the portrait shows it's cheek to be slimmer than the cacomallow face, we'd need to test multiple face shapes with the Chomp helmet).

Otherwise the cutout would line up perfectly from what I can see. Question is, can existing hats be completely modified to keep the cutout but change the whole model around it? I think I remember readin that if you try to mess with the models the game crashes.

 

[Polarthief]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

Did someone say "+1 for The List™"?

Really well done, Ruffy.

Nice. Hacker attempts look jank pretty much 100% of the time, but this was a good eye.

Yeah every mod I've seen people try to recreate it has been pretty ass, so it just begs the question: Is this just the most elaborate fake ever, made by the best modder in the world that virtually no one else in the Smash modding community can do, or is it actually a leak?

<argument snipped

I'm way too not-yet-fully-awake nor knowledgeable enough on Mii costumes to refute that, rip.

 

[MattX20]

It's very much all but guaranteed the remaining 3rd party Mii Fighter costumes will come back in the next 6 waves and two of them will probably be upgraded into fully playable characters like Geno and Lloyd.

 

[MisterMike]

Testing... Finally, the upload is working again!
I dunno if it has been brought up, but it seems mii hats all have a blueprint, meaning a fix cutout shape for helmets and angle for hats (when it comes to hats, there are multiple blueprints with which you could categorize them, eg. mario cap-morgana-maker helmet-silk hat lay flat; toad head-mushroom hat arc upwards), and I noticed that cacodemon and mallow from the leak both fit with these blueprints, whereas hacker attempts don't. This leads me to believe we DO have a legit leak on our hands, add the quality of the rendering in the footage to the arguement and you'd really need to try hard to debunk it.

If anyone has a few mins, please make a mii gunner with the chomp helmet and take a screenshot of the fighter icon so we can compare the face cutout to cacodemon for a full 1:1 comparison, though I think this image already proves it well enough.
View attachment 269093

I've been bringing this sort of thing up since forever. The fact that none of the recreation hats have been able to accurately encircle the head or face as the hats in the CacoMallow Post have been able to, kind of strengthens the idea that this is legitimate. I mean, if it really is so easy to fake something like this, then why can none of the recreations get this detail right? Should be trivial, really.

Here's my Waluigi Mii to the rescue:

View attachment 269096

I took this pic from my Switch itself instead of from my TV, so it might be a little off, but I think it's good enough to compare with the Cacodemon one. Also yes, Ken is there to give some much needed moral support.

Yeah, the shape around the head is very much 1-to-1 with the Cacodemon Hat.

Oh i'd love this leak to be true, but it's just so weird.

Why would you take a picture of the mii costumes and not the fighter themselves? Also, you'd think that something else would've leaked with how far in developement they seem to be. Maybe Geno and Doomguy were being worked on way before the end of the first pass but it's just something to consider.

I'd imagine it might be because the characters themselves weren't made/ready yet, whereas the hats were already done due to their being easier to make. I mean, you can't leak what isn't made yet after all. And even if there already was some work done on them, I doubt that would be as easily accessable to all employees. But that's the thing about this, we have zero clue as to the context in which these screenshots were taken, and I doubt we ever will. As far as we know this guy could've been an alien.

Something that just occurred to me as I was writing this post is a reason why we're looking at this weird situation in which the ARMS rep is being held off for a Byleth style reveal/release combo, and it made me remember something that I've stated in the past with regards to Cacomallow's legitimacy: Nintendo is in a weird spot to work around that leak, if they choose to do so. Granted, Nintendo rarely chooses to work around or mitigate leaks as much as they seem to just pretend the leak didn't exist and quietly dispose of the bodies later... but if we're really to believe that Nintendo effectively got Grinched just as much as we did, a leak of DLC costumes that implicates two potential fighters, one of them extremely popular, might be a bridge too far for them to ignore. The crux of my supposition here is that because the leak was so detailed, showing either of those hats in an official capacity spoils not just the other hat, but very likely the fighter that it comes with.

But that's the thing, though. Regardless if it's real or not, any action they take against it would hurt them in the long run.

• If it's real and they strike it down, it'll confirm for most people that it's legit, because why else would they take it down?
• If it's fake and they strike it down, then they run the risk of raising people's expectations over nothing, something I highly doubt they'd want after the whole Grinch Hoax fiasco.

As I've said before, if the CacoMallow Post turns out to have been real, then I'd consider it one of the most daring leaks in the series' history: This person had the balls to outright leak a character over half a year before they were officially revealed, but managed to do so in a way that Nintendo couldn't do a damn thing about it.

This, my friend, is the right question. But I will tell you, regardless of their answer, there is a 99.9% chance that their real reason for hating Geno simply boils down to the fact that they have another character they want and they can't stand the idea of any other character getting in but theirs.

This. Also, whenever someone says a character is irrelevant, it's almost always because the character isn't relevant to them. They never grew up with the character or their game/series, so they don't matter and shouldn't be in Smash.

Also unrelated but last night I had a dream about Fatman and me sitting in a Discord call chatting about gardening and he had the absolute smoothest voice imaginable... should I be worried about strangers on the internet showing up in my dreams?

Well that all depends: Was it a good conversation?

 

[Organization XIII]

I do worry about Llyod. He's never been super popular and considering Namco seems fine with not getting new characters it worries me. Especially since costumes can just be dropped with unrelated characters. Hopefully though he'll make it as I do love the Tales series and would love to see it on the roster.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I see Cacomallow is real.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I've been bringing this sort of thing up since forever. The fact that none of the recreation hats have been able to accurately encircle the head or face as the hats in the CacoMallow Post have been able to, kind of strengthens the idea that this is legitimate. I mean, if it really is so easy to fake something like this, then why can none of the recreations get this detail right? Should be trivial, really.

Pretty much. I can get that it might be of slightly different quality, and it won't be exact(as recreating it exactly is something not even professionals can do), but they can't even get it around the head right? That's a completely different thing. It's not about perfect accuracy, it's about getting the details so close that it's possible to believe somebody could've made the original leak.

Which from what it looks like, nobody is able to get close enough to even that level. So yeah, I do agree it's very likely real with these points in mind. Of course, until it actually happens, I can't say "definitely real". I'm aware that's a way to look at it in hindsight, but there's kind of no credibility to the leak either, so it's kind of hard to judge it as 100% with the details we have.

 

[Polarthief]

It's very much all but guaranteed the remaining 3rd party Mii Fighter costumes will come back in the next 6 waves and two of them will probably be upgraded into fully playable characters like Geno and Lloyd.

TBH if Geno gets in, that's looking pretty good for Lloyd TBH. I know it's not big, but we've used correlations like that before.

I've been bringing this sort of thing up since forever. The fact that none of the recreation hats have been able to accurately encircle the head or face as the hats in the CacoMallow Post have been able to, kind of strengthens the idea that this is legitimate. I mean, if it really is so easy to fake something like this, then why can none of the recreations get this detail right? Should be trivial, really.

Exactly, which is why I think it's legit, unless we have SuperModder on our hands here making a great-looking fake, that supposedly NO ONE ELSE CAN.

• If it's fake and they strike it down, then they run the risk of raising people's expectations over nothing, something I highly doubt they'd want after the whole Grinch Hoax fiasco.

Yeah... that guy who went down for it definitely made it feel way more real, even though, IIRC, it wasn't Nintendo who did that? While lookiing back on that last Smash direct, it still remains to be the weakest, by far, the final 2 reveals did not help to mitigate peoples' expectations following Grinch Leak.

I do worry about Llyod. He's never been super popular and considering Namco seems fine with not getting new characters it worries me. Especially since costumes can just be dropped with unrelated characters. Hopefully though he'll make it as I do love the Tales series and would love to see it on the roster.

Ehh... Let's see what happens with Geno first methinks. If Lloyd is in FP2, I doubt he'll be shown off until 2021 anyway.

 

[SSGuy]

There are a lot of examples of Mii Fighter Costumes that wrap around like CacoDemon and how they sit on your head. I would recommend looking at Monkey Hat, Flying Man and the Animal Crossing ones to see a good example of how the wrap around looks around the Mii's face and portrait wise. s trying to be and maybe see if you can determine if that looks is more of the same.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Alternate_costume_(SSBU)/Mii_Fighter

Alternatively, I always found it strange how the Mallow hat is looking straight up. I am hoping to play around and view some of the costumes to see if they also do this. Particularly with the slime hat

 

[RuffyYoshi]

I do worry about Llyod. He's never been super popular and considering Namco seems fine with not getting new characters it worries me. Especially since costumes can just be dropped with unrelated characters. Hopefully though he'll make it as I do love the Tales series and would love to see it on the roster.

If Lloyd gets shafted, Namco should give Sakurai their best boi.
*<---- points to his avatar*

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty much. I can get that it might be of slightly different quality, and it won't be exact(as recreating it exactly is something not even professionals can do), but they can't even get it around the head right? That's a completely different thing. It's not about perfect accuracy, it's about getting the details so close that it's possible to believe somebody could've made the original leak.

Which from what it looks like, nobody is able to get close enough to even that level. So yeah, I do agree it's very likely real with these points in mind. Of course, until it actually happens, I can't say "definitely real". I'm aware that's a way to look at it in hindsight, but there's kind of no credibility to the leak either, so it's kind of hard to judge it as 100% with the details we have.

To be fair this is basically what everyone was pointing out about the recreation attempts in November - it wasn't that we were put off by the obvious quality differences, there were subtleties that weren't matching up and that a lot of modders pointed out couldn't match up and actually work in the game. In typical detractor fashion, legitimate criticism was hand-waved away, simplified/misrepresented and used as a strawman to make supporters of the leak look like fools.

I do worry about Llyod. He's never been super popular and considering Namco seems fine with not getting new characters it worries me. Especially since costumes can just be dropped with unrelated characters. Hopefully though he'll make it as I do love the Tales series and would love to see it on the roster.

I swear there's a thread where worrying about Lloyd is on topic, but I just can't put my finger on it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair this is basically what everyone was pointing out about the recreation attempts in November - it wasn't that we were put off by the obvious quality differences, there were subtleties that weren't matching up and that a lot of modders pointed out couldn't match up and actually work in the game. In typical detractor fashion, legitimate criticism was hand-waved away, simplified/misrepresented and used as a strawman to make supporters of the leak look like fools.

Indeed. Like, we're not saying it's impossible to fake, but right now the actual stuff we have has yet to have anything close enough to believe it was faked.

That said, I never bought the "it hasn't been taken down yet" to mean anything. Same with the "it hasn't shown up yet", when we don't know how development time works. These aren't really strong points against it. People can recreate models fairly closely. Nobody has gotten actually close to it. Hence, this only leads towards it being real. So far any other point holds even less water than the "hard to recreate" bit because they're assuming too much. It's quite inconsistent what videos get taken down even then. Same with fangames. While I do argue that parody does sometimes play a role, it wouldn't with hacks like these whatsoever. That can be a reason they ignore a fangame, sure. Not always the case. It depends too much context. For this, them not taking it down could be any number of reasons, too many due to inconsistencies for us to make really any kind of conclusion to create a decent scenario on why it should affect the leak.

...And I have a feeling I went off tangent to some degree. Anyway, current information leads towards it being real, a lot of arguments are very faulty towards it being fake, and we'll know in due time if it's real or not. Like, the last possibility is that it was never fake, but they didn't approve of it in the end and it was proof of concept. That's actually the worst case scenario too. ._.

 

[Polarthief]

If Lloyd gets shafted, Namco should give Sakurai their best boi.
*<---- points to his avatar*

I would argue Klonoa is significantly less known than Tales of. It would be insane to see Klonoa content but not Lloyd TBH. That'd be like seeing the Phanto mask face from Doki Doki Panic Mario 2 USA be playable before Yoshi.

 

[Deleted member]

I would argue Klonoa is significantly less known than Tales of. It would be insane to see Klonoa content but not Lloyd TBH. That'd be like seeing the Phanto mask face from Doki Doki Panic Mario 2 USA be playable before Yoshi.

Well depending on how much of a "shill picks" defeatist you are, it makes more sense for Klonoa to be the choice because his games have struggled worldwide since conception and being in Smash might just be the boost he needs to finally be something of a mascot character.

I want him a lot more than Lloyd, for sure. Neither measures up to Geno.