Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[T2by4]

Again, the thing we need to remember about all this is the timing.

Project m and legacy have been around for a long time now. More than long enough for Nintendo to have noticed and took action waaaaaay sooner.


Why now? Why now when we’re at the 2nd fighters pass? When lots of speculation is that a character is getting in that fans have been wanting for over a decade, and that said character just happens to be in the legacy mod?

That's a good point. It would sure suck if they took down the only way we could play a fully modded Geno in Smash without putting the actual Geno in. It has to mean something. It's very odd they would target them and not something like Smash Flash 2. Maybe they looked up Geno in Smash and only now noticed the mod and wanted to take it down to prevent similarities to the actual Geno that's coming? Who knows.

 

[AugustusB]

So Legacy XP and TE is done with? That is kind of surprising, to be honest. We have all talked about the timing being odd, which is a really good thing to consider. But may I add something to this line of thinking?

Legacy was released in 2016 and remained up till now. Some of the additions are pretty great.
Geno, Waluigi, Metal Sonic, Shadow and Ridley. Could a different company had told them to stop? Square or Sega? IDK. With this being up when Ultimate was in development, it makes you wonder why they didn't go after them sooner for Ridley and not spoil the surprise?

 

[Icewolff92]

Found a Smash Bros parody that I found rather funny, in lack of other things to discuss and all that jazz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4vhuP7k4VM

 

[Lagguino]

So nintendo kicked the can on legacy XP kinda sucks because i loved playing as geno but i do find it odd since given how some people said it here already the only characters that are in XP that isn't in ultimate as character are Geno, Waluigi, Metal Sonic and Shadow. Now if we add this along with the two music tracks taken down almost a year ago this feels like that takedown is more for Geno being a character. But hey not to be a downer but this can also mean nothing (this the side of me thats trying to contain my hopes rn)

 

[Polarthief]

Can someone give me a decent write-up of the situation with this Legacy thing, if you guys think this is related to Geno's chances? I always love adding things to the list, but I'm not gonna add anything I don't have a clue about and would prefer someone else who knows what's up does.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing I'll say about Legacy XP is Ridley doesn't mean too much in itself. Sakurai marked him as "impossible" in his own interview, which led many to believe he wasn't coming. So removing it cause of Ridley would make things worse. He was vastly unexpected to actually come in Ultimate. Geno is one thing, and some thought he could be base(they were kind of right?).

Now it being removed now might be more meaningful. The timing, imo, has more merit. That said, as pointed out, other companies exist. Could be a case where they discussed what to do before killing it. It's also possible the law on "removing something as soon as possible" has changed so they only need to do so if it would affect them. Removing Legacy XP has more merit now since it's someone like Geno. Ridley, as I noted above, wasn't expected anyway. So it's not like it would've affected sales. People would still want Ultimate more for its own reasons(everybody being back, for instance). On the other hand, maybe someone like Shadow or Waluigi could be coming. Ridley is one thing. But the other three mentioned are significantly bigger deals. Geno wasn't the most expected ever, admittedly, but Shadow and Waluigi were far more, at least in comparison. Obviously Geno is expected a lot too, but being 3rd party and from SE soured some opinions. There's some belief that SE blatantly has been troublesome, but that's not really proven. We lack information, obviously, to be sure on what happened. It's hard to make an educated guess after Hero showed up with significantly more content than Cloud and Final Fantasy have(not just music either. FF has the summons, but that's kind of it. Hero has far more spirits, significantly more other Hero cameos in the Final Smash, as well as music and 4 heroes for alts alone. While obviously the copyright is shared among many owners too, we got more SMRPG content than last time. My theory is that they just wanted more stuff for DLC because it makes them more money, not specifically being stingy instead. Cloud had "everyone is here" so the content is pretty much the same for him minus one costume, and all the 3rd party costumes are being resold anyway for obvious business moola. Well, most anyway. It's possible some were cut, but I doubt it).

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Maybe I'm glad I didn't delete my Legacy XP file just yet. Nintendo or Square Enix really doesn't want anyone playing with Geno

SSF2 will always be an incomplete game without the addition of Mr. Incredible.

I don't think it's Square, it's most likely Nintendo because it's a modded version of their published game. Square can't do anything about it since it's not a modded version of their published game; however, if Geno is the reason why Legacy XP had to be shut down, then why shut the whole game down instead of just removing Geno from the game? That just doesn't make any sense. I'm leaning on Nintendo taking the game down for behind the scenes purposes.

And if it was Nintendo that shut the game down specifically BECAUSE of Geno, that's another thing they did with something involving Geno. Don't forget about the two Super Mario RPG soundtracks "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms" and "Fighting Against an Armed Boss" getting taken down by Nintendo from last year.

 

[Heoj]

I don't think it's Square, it's most likely Nintendo because it's a modded version of their published game. Square can't do anything about it since it's not a modded version of their published game; however, if Geno is the reason why Legacy XP had to be shut down, then why shut the whole game down instead of just removing Geno from the game? That just doesn't make any sense. I'm leaning on Nintendo taking the game down for behind the scenes purposes.

And if it was Nintendo that shut the game down specifically BECAUSE of Geno, that's another thing they did with something involving Geno. Don't forget about the two Super Mario RPG soundtracks "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms" and "Fighting Against an Armed Boss" getting taken down by Nintendo from last year.

If they specifically took down geno then that would jusr confirm him

 

[HudU]

That 2B tweet by NoA is old news, have y'all seen that they straight up CONFIRMED ****ING CACOMALLOW?!?!?!

@cacomallow Confirmed! We'll send you a note when #AnimalCrossing: New Horizons releases on 3/20.

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) March 13, 2020

We did it lads! It's real!

I was so confused when I initially saw this LOL

Well done Malo Mart

Also In regards to the Legacy takedown, their doesn't seem to be any proof of it being a takedown, though it is oddly suspicious that it came out of nowhere. Regardless, before Ultimate, Legacy was my go-to for Smash Bros, so it sucks to see it go, and I wish the developers the best.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

You guys, I had the most cruel of dreams last night. I dreamed that the lineup for fighters pass Vol.2 was announced all at once and Geno was fighter #8. Captain Toad and Waluigi were also announced as freebies like piranha plant was. A Puyo-Puyo character was #11 and a new Ice Climbers rep was #10.

anyways this is where it gets cruel. In my dream , I woke up and I specifically said “Holy crap I just had the craziest dream and it was too good to be true. Let me log on to smash boards and check if Geno was actually confirmed or if I was just dreaming”. And sure enough, still dreaming, you all confirmed that my dream wasn’t a dream and that Geno was indeed going to be in smash.

and THEN I woke up for real. I had a DREAM WITHIN A DREAM about Geno being confirmed for Smash.

This speculation cycle needs to end lol.

 

[AugustusB]

One thing I'll say about Legacy XP is Ridley doesn't mean too much in itself. Sakurai marked him as "impossible" in his own interview, which led many to believe he wasn't coming. So removing it cause of Ridley would make things worse. He was vastly unexpected to actually come in Ultimate. Geno is one thing, and some thought he could be base(they were kind of right?).

Now it being removed now might be more meaningful. The timing, imo, has more merit. That said, as pointed out, other companies exist. Could be a case where they discussed what to do before killing it. It's also possible the law on "removing something as soon as possible" has changed so they only need to do so if it would affect them. Removing Legacy XP has more merit now since it's someone like Geno. Ridley, as I noted above, wasn't expected anyway. So it's not like it would've affected sales. People would still want Ultimate more for its own reasons(everybody being back, for instance). On the other hand, maybe someone like Shadow or Waluigi could be coming. Ridley is one thing. But the other three mentioned are significantly bigger deals. Geno wasn't the most expected ever, admittedly, but Shadow and Waluigi were far more, at least in comparison. Obviously Geno is expected a lot too, but being 3rd party and from SE soured some opinions. There's some belief that SE blatantly has been troublesome, but that's not really proven. We lack information, obviously, to be sure on what happened. It's hard to make an educated guess after Hero showed up with significantly more content than Cloud and Final Fantasy have(not just music either. FF has the summons, but that's kind of it. Hero has far more spirits, significantly more other Hero cameos in the Final Smash, as well as music and 4 heroes for alts alone. While obviously the copyright is shared among many owners too, we got more SMRPG content than last time. My theory is that they just wanted more stuff for DLC because it makes them more money, not specifically being stingy instead. Cloud had "everyone is here" so the content is pretty much the same for him minus one costume, and all the 3rd party costumes are being resold anyway for obvious business moola. Well, most anyway. It's possible some were cut, but I doubt it).

This I agree with. My initial write up about Ridley was purely hypothetical. And thankfully, I had a hunch someone would go further

That being said, I think the third parties are something to consider in this. Yes, it's not 'their game' but it is their characters 'likeness'

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This I agree with. My initial write up about Ridley was purely hypothetical. And thankfully, I had a hunch someone would go further

That being said, I think the third parties are something to consider in this. Yes, it's not 'their game' but it is their characters 'likeness'

Oh, that could also be why it took so long. It's not a parody either(which is when companies often cannot act. Fanworks have to basically not being doing their own thing, like a silent playthrough, before it would stop being parody. Uploading basic gameplay isn't parody. It's just gameplay. Uploading gameplay while you talk means you're putting your own work into it. Just playing isn't enough alone. But yeah).

 

[Bob-Omber]

So i just heard about the legacy take down and realized something. If nintendo did take it down because a character was in it who was going to be a new fighter in ultimate there would be four options for this: Geno, Waluigi, Metal Sonic, and Shadow. First off, Waluigi is in super smash flash 2 so it wouldn't make sense if legacy was taken down but not flash 2 if he was the reason. Next, Shadow and Metal Sonic both seem like (at least to me I know this is debatable) they would be echo fighters of Sonic, which sakurai said would NOT be in fighters pass 1 and since all of the other rules for FP1 apply to FP2 except the price I think we can assume there won't be any echo fighters in FP2. This just leaves Geno being the reason and making it all the more likely that he will one day finally arrive in smash

 

[Blankiturayman]

The Legacy XP stuff is interesting; I'm sad they decided to stop work on it out of the blue, it's a really fun mod, but I wish them the best. Anyhow, I guess there's the possibility it wasn't a C&D, after all, and they decided to stop work on it like Project M. But the way this was all so sudden does raise suspicion. I suppose we won't ever know if it truly was C&D'd. Though, if it was... The next reveals can't get here any sooner lol

So i just heard about the legacy take down and realized something. If nintendo did take it down because a character was in it who was going to be a new fighter in ultimate there would be four options for this: Geno, Waluigi, Metal Sonic, and Shadow. First off, Waluigi is in super smash flash 2 so it wouldn't make sense if legacy was taken down but not flash 2 if he was the reason. Next, Shadow and Metal Sonic both seem like (at least to me I know this is debatable) they would be echo fighters of Sonic, which sakurai said would NOT be in fighters pass 1 and since all of the other rules for FP1 apply to FP2 except the price I think we can assume there won't be any echo fighters in FP2. This just leaves Geno being the reason and making it all the more likely that he will one day finally arrive in smash

Well, I know you put that it's debatable, but yeah; Shadow and Metal don't necessarily have to be echoes. They've got enough different abilities to warrant a separate character slot. Though, there's always the possibility that they'd be made echoes regardless, and change a couple specials, like Ken or Chrom. Either way, as much as I like them, I sadly don't see them getting in too soon... So it'd probably be more likely Geno, as mentioned

 

[ForsakenM]

So i just heard about the legacy take down and realized something. If nintendo did take it down because a character was in it who was going to be a new fighter in ultimate there would be four options for this: Geno, Waluigi, Metal Sonic, and Shadow. First off, Waluigi is in super smash flash 2 so it wouldn't make sense if legacy was taken down but not flash 2 if he was the reason. Next, Shadow and Metal Sonic both seem like (at least to me I know this is debatable) they would be echo fighters of Sonic, which sakurai said would NOT be in fighters pass 1 and since all of the other rules for FP1 apply to FP2 except the price I think we can assume there won't be any echo fighters in FP2. This just leaves Geno being the reason and making it all the more likely that he will one day finally arrive in smash

Looks like someone made an oopsie and didn't inform themselves before posting. Funnily enough, you could have just read a couple of posts here by Verde Coeden Scalesworth to inform yourself, but you didn't even bother.

So, let me explain to you why you are wrong about Waluigi and Smash Flash 2. As mentioned by Moptimus mere posts ago, Smash Flash 2 uses completely custom sprites for their characters and thus are not reusing assets Nintendo owns. They are not asking for money, and on top of that it's an original game made in Flash instead of a mod of Nintendo's own Smash game. That last bit is key here.

When it comes to Smash, Nintendo only harps on those modding their actual game. BY YOUR LOGIC, this would also mean nothing for Geno because Smash Bros Crusade is a fan game that has Geno in it with their own custom sprites...or in the new game that Zero just featured on his Card Saga Wars in which Geno is an assist with Geno Blast. Also, don't forget Waluigi is in Crusade as well.

Ridley was added to Legacy XP in September 2016. Whether it was due to not having plans for Ridley at that time for Ultimate or not thinking it was needed due to people never expecting Ridley in Smash or maybe they just didn't know about it yet they did not take down XP before announcing Ridley at E3 years later. If anything, you can use this fact as evidence against this meaning anything as well as the fact that David Kimball said Nintendo did not approach them directly which they would have likely gotten a C&D for modding a Nintendo game had Nintendo contacted them.

 

[Bob-Omber]

Looks like someone made an oopsie and didn't inform themselves before posting. Funnily enough, you could have just read a couple of posts here by Verde Coeden Scalesworth to inform yourself, but you didn't even bother.

So, let me explain to you why you are wrong about Waluigi and Smash Flash 2. As mentioned by Moptimus mere posts ago, Smash Flash 2 uses completely custom sprites for their characters and thus are not reusing assets Nintendo owns. They are not asking for money, and on top of that it's an original game made in Flash instead of a mod of Nintendo's own Smash game. That last bit is key here.

When it comes to Smash, Nintendo only harps on those modding their actual game. BY YOUR LOGIC, this would also mean nothing for Geno because Smash Bros Crusade is a fan game that has Geno in it with their own custom sprites...or in the new game that Zero just featured on his Card Saga Wars in which Geno is an assist with Geno Blast. Also, don't forget Waluigi is in Crusade as well.

Ridley was added to Legacy XP in September 2016. Whether it was due to not having plans for Ridley at that time for Ultimate or not thinking it was needed due to people never expecting Ridley in Smash or maybe they just didn't know about it yet they did not take down XP before announcing Ridley at E3 years later. If anything, you can use this fact as evidence against this meaning anything as well as the fact that David Kimball said Nintendo did not approach them directly which they would have likely gotten a C&D for modding a Nintendo game had Nintendo contacted them.

Oh...I apologize. I completely forgot crusade existed as well.

 

[ForsakenM]

Oh...I apologize. I completely forgot crusade existed as well.

Nah, you good. You just needed to read a couple or Moptimus posts that he just recently blessed us with.

 

["LC"_Lapen]

A certain someone is tweeting otters:

https://twitter.com/OregonProgress/status/1238685703887679488

Does this mean...?

 

[AugustusB]

Interesting point. With Crusade, it was built from the ground up. Soooo... can it be considered a parody?

EDIT: FREAKING OTTERS!!

 

[Megadoomer]

A certain someone is tweeting otters:

https://twitter.com/OregonProgress/status/1238685703887679488

Does this mean...?

We can only hope, but I can't recall if him tweeting otters has consistently been followed by some kind of Nintendo Direct/announcement, or if it's just something that he does for fun (or a coincidence).

 

[AugustusB]

We can only hope, but I can't recall if him tweeting otters has consistently been followed by some kind of Nintendo Direct/announcement, or if it's just something that he does for fun (or a coincidence).

He has claimed in recent events that he does it for fun. However there have been times where an announcement followed his 'otter posts' so yeah....its hard to say.

This could also be the Nindie Direct this week.

 

[skydogc]

A certain someone is tweeting otters:

https://twitter.com/OregonProgress/status/1238685703887679488

View attachment 265827

Does this mean...?

Well now I'm giddy.
Forget groundhog day, happy Otter-Tweet-In-Hopes-Of-A-Direct-Or-Smash-Announcement-Soon-Maybe Day
Or as we in the business call it OTIHOADORSASM Day

 

[Deleted member]

They are not asking for money, and on top of that it's an original game made in Flash instead of a mod of Nintendo's own Smash game. That last bit is key here.

Remember that time Nintendo waited ten years until the game was finished to slap a C&D on Another Metroid 2 Remake, which didn't ask for money, added completely original animations and entirely unique mechanics and challenges, all while being made in Game Maker? All because they had an uglier and less fun remake in the works at the same time?

I sure do.

Look, I get that there's no proof that Legacy XP was given a C&D or any other legal order to stop, but if I'm remembering right, PM got the same nebulous takedown that totally wasn't a C&D until it was.

 

[OffBi]

Goddamn otters man....

 

[Icewolff92]

A certain someone is tweeting otters:

https://twitter.com/OregonProgress/status/1238685703887679488

View attachment 265827

Does this mean...?

He just likes otters. Its nothing more

 

[Polarthief]

I feel so incredibly out of the loop on not just the legacy thing but also the otter thing. What is even going on anymore in this thread? XD

 

[Fatmanonice]

The Legacy stuff is kind of suspect because it seems to be similar to what happened with Project M during Smash 4. Project M never got a full C&D but supposedly Nintendo strong armed a lot of situations that led people to walk away from the project. A lot of major YouTube and Twitch channels were put under the threat of demontenization and Nintendo low-key threatened to not sponsor major tournaments if Smash mods were present. Following that whole situation back in the day, it seems like the Project M team got increasingly nervous because Nintendo not so subtly pointed out that they were using IPs and assets without permission from a lot of companies and that any of them could effortlessly financially squash them at anytime if they wanted to. Basically they tolerated it for years but when Smash became a big ass E-sport again they were like "look... We could have killed this at anytime and ruined everyone involved but, uh *sniff*, it's not worth the trouble so if you all would *gently pats gun in side holster* find a new hobby, we'd really appreciate it." I seriously doubt Nintendo was super aggressive about it but I wouldn't be surprised if several people got a "friendly suggestion" to back away from the projects.

 

[ForsakenM]

Remember that time Nintendo waited ten years until the game was finished to slap a C&D on Another Metroid 2 Remake, which didn't ask for money, added completely original animations and entirely unique mechanics and challenges, all while being made in Game Maker? All because they had an uglier and less fun remake in the works at the same time?

I sure do.

Look, I get that there's no proof that Legacy XP was given a C&D or any other legal order to stop, but if I'm remembering right, PM got the same nebulous takedown that totally wasn't a C&D until it was.

Did you forget the part where I was speaking about JUST Smash and not anything else?

I feel so incredibly out of the loop on not just the legacy thing but also the otter thing. What is even going on anymore in this thread? XD

Just read a couple of posts on the Legacy thing, it's really simple. To help you out though, it's basically that Legacy XP is a mod of Brawl that has Geno and Waluigi in it and they just suddenly announced they aren't updating it anymore while also removing every possible download link they have while also saying they can't say much more about it right now which sounds like legal issues.

Jon GameXplain likes otters and he has a habit of posting them or retweeting images about them when Nintendo news is on the way...but he also has a habit of being full of **** and just posting/retweeting them because he likes otters, so it's hard to tell.

 

[Sigran101]

How consistently do the otter posts correlate with a direct? I know sometimes he posts otters just for fun, but it sometimes means more. I feel like he knows what he's doing when he does this, and people are desperate for a direct, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Icewolff92]

This direct can¨t come soon enough. Starting to go craycray sitting here at home being isolated.

How consistently do the otter posts correlate with a direct? I know sometimes he posts otters just for fun, but it sometimes means more. I feel like he knows what he's doing when he does this, and people are desperate for a direct, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

You all know that he has downright said that he is pissed off people monitoring his every move? He just wants to retweet about otters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Crusade and Smash Flash are okay by Nintendo because they're non-profit fan projects with sprites made from the ground up. Project M and Legacy use assets from Brawl despite Nintendo never okaying it so, legally speaking, Nintendo could legally nuke any of the team members at any given time if they thought it was worth the effort. They're free mods but game companies take their assets being used without permission very seriously, especially if the original IP names are still attached to them. Unofficial games that use official assets are legal dead traps if the original company wants to use ideas present in them especially if they want to do it at a profit. For example, suppose Geno is coming to Smash Ultimate as paid DLC. A free mod where Geno is playable using official Nintendo assets suddenly gets a big "please kick my ass, senpai" sign on its back because it's technically competition. Basically mods like Legacy are barely tolerated as long as they don't interfere with official plans or potential profits.

 

[Icewolff92]

Crusade and Smash Flash are okay by Nintendo because they're non-profit fan projects with sprites made from the ground up. Project M and Legacy use assets from Brawl despite Nintendo never okaying it so, legally speaking, Nintendo could legally nuke any of the team members at any given time if they thought it was worth the effort. They're free mods but game companies take their assets being used without permission very seriously, especially if the original IP names are still attached to them. Unofficial games that use official assets are legal dead traps if the original company wants to use ideas present in them especially if they want to do it at a profit. For example, suppose Geno is coming to Smash Ultimate as paid DLC. A free mod where Geno is playable using official Nintendo assets suddenly gets a big "please kick my ass, senpai" sign on its back because it's technically competition. Basically mods like Legacy are barely tolerated as long as they don't interfere with official plans or potential profits.

But why kill it now and not prior to Ultimate? I don¨t get it

 

[Fatmanonice]

But why kill it now and not prior to Ultimate? I don¨t get it

Honestly? My guess is that Legacy has enough assets or ideas in it that Nintendo wants to now use themselves for profit and Nintendo isn't cool with them being used for free. I think that's probably why it was "tolerated" before because, with individual DLC, certain ideas are now worth more on their own than they would have been if they had been in the base game. For example, Ridley was part of the overall $60 package but now someone like Waluigi or Geno would basically be worth $6 by themselves.

 

[Icewolff92]

Honestly? My guess is that Legacy has enough assets or ideas in it that Nintendo wants to now use themselves for profit and Nintendo isn't cool with them being used for free. I think that's probably why it was "tolerated" before because, with individual DLC, certain ideas are now worth more on their own than they would have been if they had been in the base game. For example, Ridley was part of the overall $60 package but now someone like Waluigi or Geno would basically be worth $6 by themselves.

Then why did they kill M before 4 then?

 

[Polarthief]

Just read a couple of posts on the Legacy thing, it's really simple. To help you out though, it's basically that Legacy XP is a mod of Brawl that has Geno and Waluigi in it and they just suddenly announced they aren't updating it anymore while also removing every possible download link they have while also saying they can't say much more about it right now which sounds like legal issues.

This seems a bit tinfoil hat-like if this hasn't happened with the other mods relating to a new character or something else like that. The only similar things I can think of is the song copyright takedowns and AM2R being taken down shortly before the official (and arguably worse) Metroid 2 remake came out for 3DS, so I guess this could be pointing at one/both of them coming? But idk.

Jon GameXplain likes otters and he has a habit of posting them or retweeting images about them when Nintendo news is on the way...but he also has a habit of being full of **** and just posting/retweeting them because he likes otters, so it's hard to tell.

So that's a total wash if he randomly does it too. Could just always have been a coincidence when he finds cute otter pics and people picked it up as a pattern. That said, even if it was a news hint, it could just be the stupid dumb Nindies thing which really, really, REALLY does not need to happen right now when we're all starving for our 2020 lineup and Smash reveals.

This direct can¨t come soon enough. Starting to go craycray sitting here at home being isolated.

Seriously, especially when we're out of groceries and we planned a delivery that had to be cancelled because the stores near us are just out of stock. So not only am I going nuts because of the drought, I have the dumb virus gnawing on the back of my mind every time I walk in the kitchen, it sucks.

You all know that he has downright said that he is pissed off people monitoring his every move? He just wants to retweet about otters.

That's my take on this TBH. It just coincidentally happens to be, *sometimes* when a Direct is gonna pop up. I wouldn't even bother with his retweets.

The Legacy stuff is kind of suspect because it seems to be similar to what happened with Project M during Smash 4. Project M never got a full C&D but supposedly Nintendo strong armed a lot of situations that led people to walk away from the project. A lot of major YouTube and Twitch channels were put under the threat of demontenization and Nintendo low-key threatened to not sponsor major tournaments if Smash mods were present. Following that whole situation back in the day, it seems like the Project M team got increasingly nervous because Nintendo not so subtly pointed out that they were using IPs and assets without permission from a lot of companies and that any of them could effortlessly financially squash them at anytime if they wanted to. Basically they tolerated it for years but when Smash became a big ass E-sport again they were like "look... We could have killed this at anytime and ruined everyone involved but, uh *sniff*, it's not worth the trouble so if you all would *gently pats gun in side holster* find a new hobby, we'd really appreciate it." I seriously doubt Nintendo was super aggressive about it but I wouldn't be surprised if several people got a "friendly suggestion" to back away from the projects.

But how does this relate to Ultimate and Legacy, exactly? Sorry I'm not at all knowledgeable on this topic. (wrote this prior to reading the below quotes, and I just this reply at the bottom of this post to keep it consistent)

Crusade and Smash Flash are okay by Nintendo because they're non-profit fan projects with sprites made from the ground up. Project M and Legacy use assets from Brawl despite Nintendo never okaying it so, legally speaking, Nintendo could legally nuke any of the team members at any given time if they thought it was worth the effort. They're free mods but game companies take their assets being used without permission very seriously, especially if the original IP names are still attached to them. Unofficial games that use official assets are legal dead traps if the original company wants to use ideas present in them especially if they want to do it at a profit. For example, suppose Geno is coming to Smash Ultimate as paid DLC. A free mod where Geno is playable using official Nintendo assets suddenly gets a big "please kick my ass, senpai" sign on its back because it's technically competition. Basically mods like Legacy are barely tolerated as long as they don't interfere with official plans or potential profits.

Honestly? My guess is that Legacy has enough assets or ideas in it that Nintendo wants to now use themselves for profit and Nintendo isn't cool with them being used for free. I think that's probably why it was "tolerated" before because, with individual DLC, certain ideas are now worth more on their own than they would have been if they had been in the base game. For example, Ridley was part of the overall $60 package but now someone like Waluigi or Geno would basically be worth $6 by themselves.

Huh, that actually makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. I'll try to do a writeup for the evidence post unless someone better suited would like to (and get the credit for it because I don't deserve it, lol).

 

[Fatmanonice]

Then why did they kill M before 4 then?

Competition. A popular free mod is a threat to profits and, if anything, Project M served its purpose of keeping competitive Smash on life support when interest in competitive Brawl bottomed out. Again, its existence was tolerated until it potentially threatened Nintendo's actual plans for the series.

 

[Firox]

Found a Smash Bros parody that I found rather funny, in lack of other things to discuss and all that jazz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4vhuP7k4VM

The animation for this was surprisingly good. Gotta admit the Wario/Crown moment had me LOLing.

 

[Icewolff92]

Competition. A popular free mod is a threat to profits and, if anything, Project M served its purpose of keeping competitive Smash on life support when interest in competitive Brawl bottomed out. Again, its existence was tolerated until it potentially threatened Nintendo's actual plans for the series.

Fair enough. But I still don¨t get why XP would be worth to kick down (if it would be because a character(s) ) concidering it would be a bigger deal for people to play the character(s) in the best selling of all time, instead of a mod that a fraction of the fandom use. Especially (and yes I know it mentioning earlier) when we have Super Smash Bros Flash who is a way more popular "fangame" with Nintendo having a history of shutting down fangames. Yes, it is a non-profit fan game, but it still contains popular character(s) whereof one were apart of Xp

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fair enough. But I still don¨t get why XP would be worth to kick down (if it would be because a character(s) ) concidering it would be a bigger deal for people to play the character(s) in the best selling of all time, instead of a mod that a fraction of the fandom use. Especially (and yes I know it mentioning earlier) when we have Super Smash Bros Flash who is a way more popular "fangame" with Nintendo having a history of shutting down fangames.

There's other elements too that make it a legal quagmire. For example, we get Geno and/or Waluigi in Ultimate but there are moves that resemble those found in Legacy. One of the modders suddenly decides they have balls the size of cantaloupes and claims Nintendo stole their ideas, using the mod as evidence. It's a massive pain in the ass situation because, despite the assets being Nintendo's to begin with, there's technically legal precedent depending on how it's spun. The modder likely wouldn't win the case but cases being horribly one sided hasn't stopped people in the past. Even if it's a slam dunk, it's still legal fees and potential bad PR for the company that can be dragged out for months if the prosecution is tenacious or spiteful enough. This is why it's honestly best for everyone involved if it never gets this far. Sure, a big company can deal with it but it's annoying and basically ruining the lives of a handful young adults (one of your company's core demographics) isn't a good look.

 

[Icewolff92]

There's other elements too that make it a legal quagmire. For example, we get Geno and/or Waluigi in Ultimate but there are moves that resemble those found in Legacy. One of the modders suddenly decides they have balls the size of cantaloupes and claims Nintendo stole their ideas, using the mod as evidence. It's a massive pain in the ass situation because, despite the assets being Nintendo's to begin with, there's technically legal precedent depending on how it's spun. The modder likely wouldn't win the case but cases being horribly one sided hasn't stopped people in the past. Even if it's a slam dunk, it's still legal fees and potential bad PR for the company that can be dragged out for months if the prosecution is tenacious or spiteful enough. This is why it's honestly best for everyone involved if it never gets this far. Sure, a big company can deal with it but it's annoying and basically ruining the lives of a handful young adults (one of your company's core demographics) isn't a good look.

But couldn¨t the team of Super Smash Flash technically do the same if they were in that situation?