Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Aerospherology]

Was that Ken leak even proven to be real? Yea, we got Ken, but it doesn't necessarily mean that leak was real. Could have just been coincidence.

These days its weird that anyone is posting pictures or videos with such reduced quality unless they were trying to mask something.
Even if you were trying to reduce reflections to save your own hide, Idk, why not just crop it the image of the character out as well.

Personally I lean towards it being faked, there’s even a mii costume pic with a hat that looks like basically the same one from the video. It’s a pretty good recreation if it were just a copy.

Yes, the original Ken leak was proven to be real. The models are nearly identical. Also, what Mii Costume pic?

 

[OffBi]

Was that Ken leak even proven to be real? Yea, we got Ken, but it doesn't necessarily mean that leak was real. Could have just been coincidence.

These days its weird that anyone is posting pictures or videos with such reduced quality unless they were trying to mask something.
Even if you were trying to reduce reflections to save your own hide, Idk, why not just crop it the image of the character out as well.

Personally I lean towards it being faked, there’s even a mii costume pic with a hat that looks like basically the same one from the video. It’s a pretty good recreation if it were just a copy.

...what?

 

[TriggerX]

This one that was posted some time ago.

 

[axel_]

Was that Ken leak even proven to be real? Yea, we got Ken, but it doesn't necessarily mean that leak was real. Could have just been coincidence.

These days its weird that anyone is posting pictures or videos with such reduced quality unless they were trying to mask something.
Even if you were trying to reduce reflections to save your own hide, Idk, why not just crop the image of the character out as well.

Personally I lean towards it being faked, there’s even a mii costume pic with a hat that looks like basically the same one from the video. It’s a pretty good recreation if it were just a copy.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This one that was posted some time ago. View attachment 261792

Yeah, that's fake. The Caco costume in the CacoMallow leak has more detail on the scales of the face and inside of the mouth is MUCH darker and bigger I believe.

 

[OffBi]

This one that was posted some time ago. View attachment 261792

...that was someone trying to fake the cacomallow leak, it's not even the same as the cacodemon hat.

 

[axel_]

T TriggerX , it was absolutely real. Same model, same taunt pose, same render (you can see it's the same, even when it's transparent)

 

[Deleted member]

This one that was posted some time ago. View attachment 261792

Bro. That's not even remotely close. Very polygonal and that black line on the side isn't on the one in the leak.

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Dont know who made this but it was on @papagenos cover video. Looks amazing! Credits to the artist please.

View attachment 261768

Sorry if I’m
1) Late to the punch
2) Someone already credited the artist
But the artist is visualprism on Twitter. They make some really awesome renders!
https://mobile.twitter.com/visualprism

 

[RetrogamerMax]

T TriggerX here is what I am talking about:

Just like I said, there is more detail on the scales and the mouth is much darker and bigger. Looks nothing like the Cacodemon costume from that other leak with the Mii crying.

 

[TriggerX]

Didn’t know that the Ken thing was proved to be real. Lol not really a character I followed too heavy.

Idk know tho, those models are pretty close. I’ve only seen one video of the cacomallow leak , but the quality was so poor that you couldn’t really make out things like Details in the scales. If you saw the same video I did, you’re really grasping at straws there.
Honestly it just looks like the light source on the model is a tad different. Which might explain the mouth color not appearing as dark.


Can’t say I’m knowledgeable on the hacking scene, and I’ve only 3D modeled a little bit in the past. While I know recreating it is definitely possible, whoever copied it actually did a really good job.

 

[Deleted member]

Didn’t know that the Ken thing was proved to be real. Lol not really a character I followed too heavy.

Idk know tho, those models are pretty close. I’ve only seen one video of the cacomallow leak , but the quality was so poor that you couldn’t really make out things like Details in the scales. If you saw the same video I did, you’re really grasping at straws there.


Can’t say I’m knowledgeable on the hacking scene, and I’ve only 3D modeled a little bit in the past. While I know recreating it is definitely possible, whoever copied it actually did a really good job.

The difference is literally day and night so there is no "grasping at straws."

 

[Deleted member]

This one that was posted some time ago. View attachment 261792

I think there's something people don't get about this re-creation that cements it as fake and illustrates the difficulty of making a hat like this, and I am going to try to illustrate it to the best of my ability for you and anyone curious.

A Mii Fighter works something like this:

That is to say, the "hair" is a hat, which allows the hair styles to be dynamically replaced on the face template which doesn't much change aside from the skin color. I included the ears, nose, eyes and mouth to provide context to the half of a caucasian egg, but those are also likely dynamically placed. This also allows for the hair to be totally unloaded when a hat is put on, so as not to waste the polygons. Take note of the fake Cacodemon hat:

See the notch, there? Where the hair should go? This was described by the modding community to be one of the pitfalls of hats that don't cover the whole head. There are Mallow hat mods out there that end up doing something similar to this:

But on the Mallowdemon leak, we see the unexpected:

No sideburn. Weird, huh?

Just wanted to point that out for you. Don't you worry about us, we'll be sure to keep our hype in check, or, as the hip kids say, "Hype Respnsibly"™

 

[QQS]

Sorry if I’m
1) Late to the punch
2) Someone already credited the artist
But the artist is visualprism on Twitter. They make some really awesome renders!
https://mobile.twitter.com/visualprism

omg this is porn to my eyes bro *.*

 

[TooManyToastahs]

Just wanted to point that out for you. Don't you worry about us, we'll be sure to keep our hype in check, or, as the hip kids say, "Hype Respnsibly"™

Serenade, I don’t know how you did it, but you made the term “Hype Responsibly” sound like something one of those action movie dudes would say.

Anyways really cool write up, I had no idea the sideburns worked like that on Miis. The plot thickens...

 

[JarBear]

@Serenade01 to make sure I understand this as well, when it comes to mii hats do the "vanilla" (in game) hats replace any Mii character's hair? So the hat "become" the hair style? (I ask this since I don't have my switch with me today to check that myself.)

If so, that also would also help favor the mod since any mods trying to replicate it ... or at least try to "disprove" the leak definitely have the hair AND the portrait doesn't seem to match the model. I include this video as a reference of trying to replicate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nul5vCQVScI

 

[TriggerX]

Yes, the original Ken leak was proven to be real. The models are nearly identical. Also, what Mii Costume pic?

I think there's something people don't get about this re-creation that cements it as fake and illustrates the difficulty of making a hat like this, and I am going to try to illustrate it to the best of my ability for you and anyone curious.

A Mii Fighter works something like this:
View attachment 261794
That is to say, the "hair" is a hat, which allows the hair styles to be dynamically replaced on the face template which doesn't much change aside from the skin color. I included the ears, nose, eyes and mouth to provide context to the half of a caucasian egg, but those are also likely dynamically placed. This also allows for the hair to be totally unloaded when a hat is put on, so as not to waste the polygons. Take note of the fake Cacodemon hat:
View attachment 261795
See the notch, there? Where the hair should go? This was described by the modding community to be one of the pitfalls of hats that don't cover the whole head. There are Mallow hat mods out there that end up doing something similar to this:
View attachment 261796

But on the Mallowdemon leak, we see the unexpected:
View attachment 261797
No sideburn. Weird, huh?

Just wanted to point that out for you. Don't you worry about us, we'll be sure to keep our hype in check, or, as the hip kids say, "Hype Respnsibly"™

Pretty good explanation. Thx.
Like I said, not too familiar with what the modding community can do with this game.

What if it’s not a hat? Kind of a roundabout and stupid way of doing a mii hat mod like this, but couldn’t you just reskin the entire character?
So essentially it’s a full on character mod for mii, over a mii if that makes sense.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think there's something people don't get about this re-creation that cements it as fake and illustrates the difficulty of making a hat like this, and I am going to try to illustrate it to the best of my ability for you and anyone curious.

A Mii Fighter works something like this:
View attachment 261794
That is to say, the "hair" is a hat, which allows the hair styles to be dynamically replaced on the face template which doesn't much change aside from the skin color. I included the ears, nose, eyes and mouth to provide context to the half of a caucasian egg, but those are also likely dynamically placed. This also allows for the hair to be totally unloaded when a hat is put on, so as not to waste the polygons. Take note of the fake Cacodemon hat:
View attachment 261795
See the notch, there? Where the hair should go? This was described by the modding community to be one of the pitfalls of hats that don't cover the whole head. There are Mallow hat mods out there that end up doing something similar to this:
View attachment 261796

But on the Mallowdemon leak, we see the unexpected:
View attachment 261797
No sideburn. Weird, huh?

Just wanted to point that out for you. Don't you worry about us, we'll be sure to keep our hype in check, or, as the hip kids say, "Hype Respnsibly"™

I never knew about the sideburn thing with the Mii costumes before very bizarre. I wonder what that means for the CacoMallow leak or what it means for that logic if CacoMallow is real.

 

[OffBi]

Didn’t know that the Ken thing was proved to be real. Lol not really a character I followed too heavy.

Idk know tho, those models are pretty close. I’ve only seen one video of the cacomallow leak , but the quality was so poor that you couldn’t really make out things like Details in the scales. If you saw the same video I did, you’re really grasping at straws there.
Honestly it just looks like the light source on the model is a tad different. Which might explain the mouth color not appearing as dark.


Can’t say I’m knowledgeable on the hacking scene, and I’ve only 3D modeled a little bit in the past. While I know recreating it is definitely possible, whoever copied it actually did a really good job.

WHAT VIDEO WERE YOU WATCHING?!?!

Pretty good explanation. Thx.

Like I said, not too familiar with what the modding community can do with this game.



What if it’s not a hat? Kind of a roundabout and stupid way of doing a mii hat mod like this, but couldn’t you just reskin the entire character?

So essentially it’s a full on character mod for mii, over a mii if that makes sense.

 

[TriggerX]

WHAT VIDEO WERE YOU WATCHING?!?!

When I initially saw it, it was on YouTube when it had first leaked out. And the quality wasn’t even as good as what retrogamer posted.

Can’t seem to find it on YouTube anymore though.

 

[ForsakenM]

I guess since people are doing this, I too will also recount my reaction to each newcomer.

Spoiler: Spoiler'd for size

Not yet, but there have been plenty of arguments made to try and debunk it. Classic arguments such as...

1. Well, it could be faked, though. (Always a possibility, but can't currently be proven, so it's just begging the question.)
2. People have been able to make Mii Costume Mods, so it's highly possible it was faked. (Same as above. Also, we've yet to see an accurate replication of what we see in the videos and image.)
3. If the guy who "leaked" this was able to get these hats, why didn't he leak anything more than that? Why not leak a new character, or a new stage, or any other Mii Costumes? (Assuming this is a leak, we have no idea how they even managed to get these videos and images or what situation they were in. Perhaps this was all they were able to get, or perhaps this was all they knew was coming. After all, you can't leaks things you don't have or don't know are coming. Also, that could be said for any potential leak, so it's just begging the question.)
4. The image has Ken in it doing a thumbs-up, just like in the Ken Leak. The person behind is trying to make it look more legit by referencing an actual leak, which means that it's fake. (Perhaps, but it's far from the only explaination. It could also just be a coincidence, or maybe it's the same guy using that as his calling card, or maybe it's a completely different person adopting that gesture as a way to signal to people that it's legit. We have no way to prove anything one way or the other, so it's a moot point.)
5. The unmoving timer is set to 2:30, just like the Ken Leak, which would make you think that it's a legit leak from a dev build, but it's displayed as 2:30 rather than 02:30 like in the Ken Leak. This discrepancy means that this is fake. (While it's true that there is an extra 0 that is missing compared to the Ken Leak, it's not a flub in the process of potentially faking this. Small details, such as there being an extra zero in front of times less than ten minutes, only existed in eariler builds of Ultimate and has since been removed. Proof of this can be seen during the Hero presentation, where Sakurai is using a development build of the game. The extra 0 seen in the Ken Leak is no longer there, meaning it was only there during production of the game, and was subsequently removed before it's retail release.)
6. The hats weren't revealed with Byleth, so they're fake. (Leaks can still be true even if the timing was off. For example, Vergeben was right about there being a SquareEnix character "Erdrick", but he was wrong in saying that it'd be the first DLC character.)
7. The hats were "leaked" back on November 3rd 2019, and it's now 3+ months since then and we haven't seen them yet. Hats are easy to make, so they must be made very shortly before a fighter's release, which means this is fake. (Unless outwardly stated, leaks don't have a "best by" date. Also, that's not how game development works. Content is made well in advance, as such it's more likely that all of the Mii Fighter costumes/hats were made in bulk, or whenever they could be made, which would logically be as soon as possible. As such, it's entirely possible that these hats were made many months ago in preparation for these upcoming DLC fighters.
8. There was an interview with one of the head Bethesda guys that disconfirmed Doomguy, so this is fake. (First off, Doomguy wasn't completely disconfirmed, though I will admit this is a pretty substantial blow to his chances. Secondly, and more importantly, nowhere in this interview did they mention that Nintendo rejected/didn't follow up on anything other than Doomguy as a fighter. It's entirely possible that we could still get DOOM content (such as costumes or spirits) in the future without a fighter to come alongside them. I mean, it's happened with Ubisoft getting costumes alongside Byleth without them getting a fighter, and there was a Spirit Event for the Kunio/River City series without them getting a fighter.)
9. If this were even a real leak, Nintendo would've gone and taken down anything about them. (Not necessarily. They didn't do that with videos talking about the Ken Leak, after all.)

Spoiler: As an aside regarding Point 3...

Given the nature of what we're dealing with, there's currently no way to definitively prove or disprove it. Personally I'm leaning more on it being real due to it looking pretty legit, as well as other details and potential leaks that support the idea that we'll be getting other SMRPG content, up to and including Geno getting in as a fighter.


Good post, but you really should've put these walls of text behind spoilers and broken them up into smaller paragraphs. Makes it a lot easier to read.


View attachment 261788

I am going to use the Verde Coeden Scalesworth approach and just use my own bullet points system because the list system here doesn't space things out well enough and makes it a fustercluck to read.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

When I initially saw it, it was on YouTube when it had first leaked out. And the quality wasn’t even as good as what retrogamer posted.

Can’t seem to find it on YouTube anymore though.

Is it this video?

 

[Turtlar]

As a recap, my current predictions are: Waluigi, Geno, Crash, Lloyd, Dante, Master Chief and maaaaaaaaaybe a bonus Iwata tribute like Lolo.

See Fatman, the problem with your prediction is that there's not nearly enough disappointment. I wish I could say I was joking, because these are all stellar picks, which to means one or more them are going to be someone far less exciting.

 

[JarBear]

Ah, I see that hats can either keep or remove the hair of the Mii depending on the hat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3N2pF4JQqU&t=63s

Have there been any hat mods that remove the hair dynamically on a model? That would be the kicker, since the other video I posted when someone was showing you can port in a hat into Smash with "jiggle" features but you can see there is hair sticking out which the built in games hat do not have strands like that sticking out ... nor does the portrait of the mii match things correctly.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I am going to use the Verde Coeden Scalesworth approach and just use my own bullet points system because the list system here doesn't space things out well enough and makes it a fustercluck to read.

I blame the chickens. What other kind of cluck is there?

But yeah, I've found it hyper useful to use. You can even use the the tab button to create a second bullet point on a line. Let me show you what I mean.

• Stuff
  • Stuff
    • Stuff
      • Stuff

You can keep going for who knows how long. >.>

 

[TriggerX]

Is it this video?

Yup, at least seems right. The quality on that video is horrible to the point where you can’t really make a call on details.

 

[OffBi]

Is it this video?

Yeah, that's the one, and that is the most quality video leak i have ever seen, dunno what triggerx was watching

 

[Firox]

See Fatman, the problem with your prediction is that there's not nearly enough disappointment. I wish I could say I was joking, because these are all stellar picks, which to means one or more them are going to be someone far less exciting.

It's depressing, but I'm inclined to agree with you. When have we ever had 6 home runs in a row? It's almost a statistical impossibility at this point for Nintendo to not drop at least one dud of a shill in there.

Granted, I know this entire premise is pretty subjective, but even with all of our differing tastes, can anyone honestly say that they've seen six ultra hype characters in a row? Even the people that loved PP don't seem to hype on EVERYTHING.

EDIT: Yeah, never mind. RetrogamerMax had a good point that even the 6 that Fatman listed aren't necessarily "home runs" for everyone so I'm just gonna put my foot in my mouth......mmmmm, yummy rubber soles....

 

[RetrogamerMax]

See Fatman, the problem with your prediction is that there's not nearly enough disappointment. I wish I could say I was joking, because these are all stellar picks, which to means one or more them are going to be someone far less exciting.

Besides Geno, Crash, and Waluigi I really don't care that much about Dante, Lloyd, and Master Chief. Though don't get me wrong I don't hate them. Though you can't denie all of those characters would make a ton of people happy. There would be no Byleth/Corrin response from their inclusions at all from the majority of the community.

It's depressing, but I'm inclined to agree with you. When have we ever had 6 home runs in a row? It's almost a statistical impossibility at this point for Nintendo to not drop at least one dud of a shill in there.

This is Ultimate the pipedream Smash that brought us back every veteran, almost every stage, wanted requested newcomers people have been literally wanting since Melee Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie. Anything can happen in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty good explanation. Thx.
Like I said, not too familiar with what the modding community can do with this game.

What if it’s not a hat? Kind of a roundabout and stupid way of doing a mii hat mod like this, but couldn’t you just reskin the entire character?
So essentially it’s a full on character mod for mii, over a mii if that makes sense.

From my understanding there are two limitations to this workaround: first, the size of the mii hat can't exceed the total size of the hat that was replaced by the modded hat, or else the game crashes. This is one of those poorly explained things that was briefly discussed when the leak first surfaced, so I don't know what has to be considered as part of the "size" of the hat. Tris and textures is what I roll with normally, so we'd be looking at a pretty big hat overall to add the new geometry and also add the nice smooth Mii head geometry in there.

Second, there's the issue that once you cover up the Mii's face, you don't see them emote anymore. For instance, Sans always has that goofy grin on his face because the mii hats are not made to emote, but if you kick a Mii fighter in the face, they show their displeasure. You can see in the original video that both Miis in question exercise a full range of facial expressions to match what they're doing.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

See Fatman, the problem with your prediction is that there's not nearly enough disappointment. I wish I could say I was joking, because these are all stellar picks, which to means one or more them are going to be someone far less exciting.

Personally I would only be happy with 2 of those and be incredibly peeved by two of them, so I think that fits pretty well. Though I did kinda not care about ANY of the first pass.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Yup, at least seems right. The quality on that video is horrible to the point where you can’t really make a call on details.

Bruh what? What more do you want, capture card footage? This isn't the Ginch Leak when we were trying to decipher blobs, this is about as quality as one gets by externally filming a TV screen. Even the ESRB Footage/pics wasn't as clear as this.

 

[QQS]

Have anyone considered that if Geno is #77, not only he will fit being the 7th Star, he will also be the second fighter of the FP2, which we saw with Square’s Hero being the second fighter of FP1. Probably doesn’t matter, but I’m pretty sure he is going to be revealed soon. 100% sure.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Look at this lads:

First EVER gameplay footage of Bowser Jr. and Shulk and people were debating if it was real or not back then and saying Shulk's render was just a photo shop Little Mac render. Turns out this leak was as real as ****. You can fake any photo, but gameplay footage is something nearly impossible to fake especially when it's something like this showning off two new unique characters with their own moves and unique animations.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The Mallow hat also jiggled a little bit, while the Mii’s head seemed to stay as stiff as usual. That Cacodemon hat recreation is pretty close, but at least one-to-three of the fangs/spikes are off and the eye’s shade of green is wrong, as well as the size of the dark area in the mouth, so it wouldn’t be the same modder if the original isn’t real.

I don’t think it matters if it’s real or not, though, other than the hats being really cool. We wouldn’t see them until after seeing Geno, anyway.

Look at this lads:
First EVER gameplay footage of Bowser Jr. and Shulk and people were debating if it was real or not back then and saying Shulk's render was just a photo shop Little Mac render. Turns out this leak was as real as ****. You can fake any photo, but gameplay footage is something nearly impossible to fake especially when it's something like this showning off two new unique characters with their own moves and unique animations.

“Bowser Jr. is just a modded Diddy Kong!”

 

[JarBear]

What's also notable about the Mallow Hat recreation is the style of it. And no, I am not talking about the lower quality that it is in comparison to the "leak" hat (I will allow this since this mod was really trying to answer "You can add a hat that jiggles and mii emotes")

However, I am specifically talking about the different in the hat style. This "user mod" dose not cover the back of the head, just sits RIGHT on top of the head that allows the hair and face to stay as is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nul5vCQVScI&t=41s

The "leak" hat covers the back of the head, the "hat" sits at an angle which "removes" the hair on the model in a clean way.


I don't think I've seen a modded mii hat that does anything like this. Has anything like this been available? Specifically something that works JUST like the mii hat we've seen for the leak?

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

I still believe in Cacomallow. The church of Cacomallow has cookies. It helps keep me faithful.

 

[TriggerX]

From my understanding there are two limitations to this workaround: first, the size of the mii hat can't exceed the total size of the hat that was replaced by the modded hat, or else the game crashes. This is one of those poorly explained things that was briefly discussed when the leak first surfaced, so I don't know what has to be considered as part of the "size" of the hat. Tris and textures is what I roll with normally, so we'd be looking at a pretty big hat overall to add the new geometry and also add the nice smooth Mii head geometry in there.

Second, there's the issue that once you cover up the Mii's face, you don't see them emote anymore. For instance, Sans always has that goofy grin on his face because the mii hats are not made to emote, but if you kick a Mii fighter in the face, they show their displeasure. You can see in the original video that both Miis in question exercise a full range of facial expressions to match what they're doing.

I think you misunderstood the work around I proposed.

What if a character mod is done instead?( Are character mods even possible?) So technically its all one model and There is no "mii hat".

For example, say If you replace mii brawler, with an entire Mario skin. This way you're essentially seeing a "Mario" that plays like a mii brawler.

In the Cacomallow case, couldnt you just throw a "cacomallow hat mii gunner skin" over a mii gunner. From the perspective of the game, the code should just assume that the mii costume has no hat on.

I only assume, doing it this way would give you the ability to side step the use of hats. The con of doing it this way, is I doubt the hats would play with swapped in model nicely.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I honestly have been leaning towards the Cacoleak being real this whole time. However, whether it's real or not, it doesn't condemn Geno that's for sure. If anything it BOOSTS his chances by quite a bit.

 

[OffBi]

I think you misunderstood the work around I proposed.

What if a character mod is done instead?( Are character mods even possible?) So technically its all one model and There is no "mii hat".

For example, say If you replace mii brawler, with an entire Mario skin. This way you're essentially seeing a "Mario" that plays like a mii brawler.

In the Cacomallow case, couldnt you just throw a "cacomallow hat mii gunner skin" over a mii gunner. From the perspective of the game, the code should just assume that the mii costume has no hat on.

I only assume, doing it this way would give you the ability to side step the use of hats. The con of doing it this way, is I doubt the hats would play with swapped in model nicely.

You can't mod a mii fighter, mainly because their heads are separate entities. It loads their heads from the switch, and bam, you got yourself a nice mii fighter, you just can't skin the mii brawler