Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[JarBear]

That is the currently fan rule that is still in play, which is completely understandable since it made sense for FP1 since it was developed alongside the base game. We can only hope FP2 breaks that mold.

That is why the best thing Nintendo/Sakurai can do is have the first character of FP2 be either a fighter that's a Spirit/Mii Costume/AT to really garner excitement like how Joker opened the discussion of "Anyone is possible."

OF course, my bias would be to have Geno be that ... but I think Fatman is probably right with his prediction of it being a Nintendo character.

 

[Firox]

I'm pretty sure this is what people said about the last Smash game, honestly.

Really? Whoever said that? Gonna have to hard disagree with this one. Sm4sh not only had several characters cut (Wolf, bless his heart) but also came no where near uniting the Smash fanbase like Ultimate has. The Melee diehards are FINALLY uniting with the mainstream crowd, and the competitive scene has never been bigger. Smash has dominated EVO and sold like never before, becoming the first Smash (bar the OG of course) to have EVERY playable character back in all their glory. Yeah, if ever there was a galvanizing high point for franchise, this is it. Sm4sh was good, but Ultimate has far more reason to be the climax. And thank goodness for that. Between Bayonetta and the poor balancing, Sm4sh kinda fell apart pretty quick towards the end.

Also, Mario and Zelda are franchises that have gone on for longer than Pokémon, and not that many people would say that they're mediocre or stagnant. It's all about changing up things for the next game, really.

I understand that this is highly opinion based and I totally understand if people disagree, but to be honest, I don't even think Mario and Zelda are above the "stagnation factor" I mentioned before. In fact, they may soon be perfect examples if Nintendo doesn't play it smart. Recent entries have been relatively lack luster compared to past ones as far as I'm concerned. Mario Odyssey had its charms (good graphics and some clever mechanics) however the complete lack of power ups and such felt off for a Mario game. When compared to Mario Galaxy, I don't feel it was as good. As for Breath of the Wild, it was also good and inventive, but the world was incredibly empty and the almost complete lack of boss fights (no, copy paste Ganonspawn don't count), dungeons and special items felt kind of soulless for a Zelda game. No where near the god-tier crap people were lauding it as. Good, yes. Best ever, eeeee no. Different doesn't automatically = Better. The issue though, is the fact that both franchises are at the same level as Pokemon. They're so freaking huge that even if the next game were nothing but you staring at a dog turd for 3 hours, droves of people would still trample each other to buy it as long as it had "Zelda" or "Mario" in the title. Granted, the games are typically high quality, but my point is that people often let nostalgia and brand power determine quality rather than an objective assessment. Again, I understand if you think I'm speaking heresy, but if you fully deny any of the glaring issues that those games had, you're only proving my point.

 

[Dukefire]

So many leaks are starting the hype again of who is going to kickstart Season 2.

Still here is an artwork holding to the spirits rule.
Artist: Mana Chan

Spoiler: Spirits hope

 

[cosmicB]

I feel like the point is being missed. Male and female Byleth are the same people. You get to choose if they are male or female. The same with Robin. Same with Pokémon trainer. They both don’t exist at the same time. Personality similarities or differences with Byleth doesn’t matter ... since it’s a player choice on what gender. Same character.

The different Heroes are different people. They come from different time lines, areas, etc. They are the same boat like Link. All different iterations are different, though they are the “same” hero.

The point stands that the theory is still reliant on how Sakurai sees the characters and their alts, as well as the timing as once again, Hero was meant to be a Bowser Jr thing with all 8 being a different DQ hero. I'm not saying it's impossible, it just seems like a reach considering how many things have to line up for it to be true including aspects of it needing to be dismissed like gender alts, and how important perception is from Sakurai himself is in all of it. It's not much different from cross-over theory, which Byleth blew completely out of the water.

 

[xpnc]

Obviously Kazooie is what will bring us to 100 characters

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

The point stands that the theory is still reliant on how Sakurai sees the characters and their alts, as well as the timing as once again, Hero was meant to be a Bowser Jr thing with all 8 being a different DQ hero. I'm not saying it's impossible, it just seems like a reach considering how many things have to line up for it to be true including aspects of it needing to be dismissed like gender alts, and how important perception is from Sakurai himself is in all of it. It's not much different from cross-over theory, which Byleth blew completely out of the water.

Agreed.

The theory requires everyone to view the gender swapped alts the same way, and it's frankly too vague if you ask me to be definite.
In my humblest of opinions, you make the choice to be the female or male version, and thus this makes them distinct characters.
This being up for debate makes the theory kind of shaky.

With that being said, I'm sure we'll see some of the characters theorized within regardless of if "road to 100" is relevant or not.
They are astute choices that are all definitely in the realm of possibility, despite the holes I feel the theory has.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Obviously Kazooie is what will bring us to 100 characters

By that logic, Nana, the second Ice Climber would, too. Possibly the Duck of the Duck Hunt duo as well.

Man, if Geno gets in, do you guys think he would be fun to play as, or what you expected when you try him out? Hard to say, since he is not in yet, but still...

 

[Andwooooo]

Whoever FP6 is, I’m banking on is finding out way sooner than anticipated. Like, before the pass is available for purchase sooner.

I don’t have any valid reason to make that assumption—I’m just basing it on a hunch.

We all knew the first pass would end on a sour note, but not _that_ sour. Byleth outright destroyed the hype afforded by the previous fighters on the pass, which makes me confident that Nintendo’s going to want to reveal the first character of the new pass before it’s for sale in order to get the trust back.

Speaking of Byleth—there’s no way they were always intended to close out the pass. That’s obvious based on the reveal trailer. It’s too obviously a Fire Emblem rep *right away*. It even took BK a good minute before people could guess who the fighter was during that trailer. Byleth’s looks like it was meant for a general Nintendo Direct, but the characters probably got switched around somewhere close to the recording in November.

I’d love it if Geno was the first fighter revealed, but I really don’t think that Geno, as much as we all want him, as enough appeal, and I know Nintendo doesn’t either—especially not to sell the whole pass. He’s more of an E3 pick, like Ridley and Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Not related to Geno but bringing it up because I will partially resent castinets98 forever if it winds up being true. 93 characters right now, right? 6 more to 99. What if 100 winds up being a super obscure Sakurai pick to finish everything off; a bonus character to put a ribbon on everything? Castinet proposed Lolo because 1. There's no spirits 2. we don't have our goofy retro pick yet and 3. he was HAL'S original mascot before Kirby. God... I could totally see Sakurai doing something like that...

Balloon Fighter baybeeeee

 

[Icewolff92]

Knowing Sakurai ... The "bonus" fighter will be a Fire Emblem character unless there is one already in the new Pass ...

Nah, this time it's more likely a Legendary Bear from Sword and Shield which name escapes me if there is any first party in this new pass.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Waluigi, Geno, Lloyd, Dante, Crash, and Master Chief.

What is your personal opinion on Ryu Hayabusa? And what are his chances compared to Geno?

 

[Andwooooo]

Here are the Mii fighter costumes I’d like to think we’ll get with Geno, because I love talking about things that have already been brought up forever:

Mallow (Hat) — Just a hat based on the Cacomallow leak. I can’t pin Mallow down to any particular Mii style, so I’m banking on him being a hat compatible with all types of Mii fighters.

Chocobo (Hat) — Carryover from Sm4sh. Needs to come back. Easy peasy

Smithy (Swordfighter) — Well, more like a hammer. I’m only guessing him because of that other leak out there that includes Mallow, and we’ve already seen Mallow, so I’m pretty confident in this. I’m also confident that this is a weird pick for Sakurai.

Tifa Lockhart (Brawler) — We need more FF representation, and I can’t think of anyone better than Tifa to give this pass more diversity regarding Mii fighters.

Black Mage/Vivi (Gunner) — If Geno was already in the game, Black Mage would absolutely take his place as one of my most wanted. I mean, come on! He should absolutely be a character by now.

Raziel (Swordfighter) — I’m digging for this one, but I think the main character from Soul Reaver would fit right in as a Mii fighter.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Forgive me if this has been posed before but I wonder if, with the next 6 fighters spread out across 2 whole years, we might get more than just those 6. Not necessarily more fighters but content. I know home run contest was supposed to be the last mode but I wonder if they'll revisit this seeing as how it definitely will not take them that long to release that many fighters considering the pace in which they've been moving. What if we do get just Mii costume packs release outside of alongside fighters? Or stages? The mii costumes could spell bad news for us if they happened. Of course they may also be scaling their workforce back as the game gets older to save money and therefore will need all that time for development. It's hard to say. But a surprise retro oddball pick to cap it off at the end would be fantastic. Byleth was disappointing but I am not going to ruminate on it as they look fun and I'm looking forward to what could be next. Geno has a good shot but we shall simply have to wait and see like always.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know about Geno's chances at this point. If he's just a Mii Costume that wouldn't surprise me it's such a Sakurai thing to do wouldn't shock me. I want him in badly and I still believe he has a chance. I do think fighter pass volume 2 is going to be solid and Crash and Dante, being in it already makes it worth it. They may not be biggest series in the world but their still big enough to the point. Where people would really enjoy them Crash would bring a fun moveset with his spin attack, Wumpa Bazooka, and Jetpack among others. Dante's obviously got his two hand pistols Ebony and Ivory and His sword Rebelleon, and Devil Trigger, of course. I'm not saying they'll be in but we'll see.

I still have faith in Sakurai I haven't given up on Geno ether so I'm still here. I know the Fighters pass will be solid and I'm excited no matter what happens from here.

Also if Master Chief gets in I'm done that'd be so awesome he might even top a possible Geno reveal for me. Probably not but that's some pretty solid picks so far!

 

[Turtlar]

Castinet proposed Lolo because 1. There's no spirits 2. we don't have our goofy retro pick yet and 3. he was HAL'S original mascot before Kirby. God... I could totally see Sakurai doing something like that...

Not gonna lie, I would be super happy if they picked Lolo. I love obscure retro characters, and it would be the closest thing to a new Kirby character we're probably going to get.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Been awhile, saw the rules of Geno Prison (can't even call it Star Road), and cool, back to Geno. I think he'll probably be #7 in the pass over all.

However, I do have one thing to say about this. To the moderators, in regards to being only specifically allowed to talk about Geno, the whole Geno, and nothing but the Geno (which gets repetitive, btw. You can only talk about a character's moveset and inclusion potential so much over 20 years before you run out of stuff to say.): "Ok boomers."

I can say this without getting banned if they have any respect for my official "Ok Boomer" pass, as given by AdamBel731. This was the time to use it.

if they do ban me, just hit me up on Twitter... I'm beginning to realize why Oval left.

 

[volbound1700]

Is it crazy that despite the recent "disconfirming" of Doomguy, I still believe CacoMallow is likely and Doomguy/Geno are coming? I think ID Software was deflecting. SNK did the same thing in FP1.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it crazy that despite the recent "disconfirming" of Doomguy, I still believe CacoMallow is likely and Doomguy/Geno are coming? I think ID Software was deflecting. SNK did the same thing in FP1.

Yeah I don't think Doom Guy is out of the running his fans shouldn't give up. And Geno still has a huge shot too.

 

[MisterMike]

I gotta say, it's really nice to see so many people in this thread warming to the idea that Geno could be coming at E3 this year... or maybe you all thought it was likely but didn't want to mention it? Either way, I feel in the mood to discuss why I think it's a likely scenario. If you're not too sure that Geno could come at E3 this year, this post may at the very least open you up to the possibility to it happening.

Spoiler: Part 1 - Past Precedent

Spoiler: Part 2 - Connecting the Dots

Spoiler: Part 3 - So What Does This Mean for Geno?

If I've missed anything, feel free to let me know and I'll update this post.

 

[Rangez]

Knowing Sakurai ... The "bonus" fighter will be a Fire Emblem character unless there is one already in the new Pass ...

Please let Geno be in this Pass ... come on ....

Okay, can you not promote such a pessimistic thought like that? The community has surely been tiresome from all the divisive Byleth talk.

 

[YsDisciple]

So, Fatman mentioned a bit ago that the 100th could maybe be a tribute to Iwata so to say (for example of course). I suddenly thought, "huh... a tribute to Iwata... WAIT ". Ooooooh baby... what if going along this line of thought, the grand finale, the very last fighter to make it into Ultimate, in honor to the late Mr. Satoru Iwata... we got one character that has also been among those many fan requested characters, however, more closely to a near and dear series of whom's fate is yet unknown. A character that has already appeared in Smash before, but throughout Ultimate has been absent. A snarky, devious naughty boy, whom by machinations of fate was given the devices for him to further his own plans and achieve near immortality. Yes, this naughty boy "Means Business".

Spoiler: Fighter #100

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So, Fatman mentioned a bit ago that the 100th could maybe be a tribute to Iwata so to say (for example of course). I suddenly thought, "huh... a tribute to Iwata... WAIT ". Ooooooh baby... what if going along this line of thought, the grand finale, the very last fighter to make it into Ultimate, in honor to the late Mr. Satoru Iwata... we got one character that has also been among those many fan requested characters, however, more closely to a near and dear series of whom's fate is yet unknown. A character that has already appeared in Smash before, but throughout Ultimate has been absent. A snarky, devious naughty boy, whom by machinations of fate was given the devices for him to further his own plans and achieve near immortality. Yes, this naughty boy "Means Business".

Spoiler: Fighter #100

I'd ****ing love Porky, god one can only hope.

 

[castinets98]

Fatman, the detail you left out is the kicker: 99 could be Lolo with a Lala alt. No bonus outside the pass required to get to 100! Instead we should just get a Geno and Mallow tag team tbh.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

View attachment 259294

Quick notes: Not allowed to talk about my contacts or rumors in the threads anymore. I can only talk about them on my wall. If you have questions, ask there or Discord.

-The staff wants me to talk about specific characters in the specific character threads. It can happen some here but it mostly has to stay on Geno.

Stuff people wanted me to comment on:

-Tales 25th anniversary is now official. Expect big things for Tales in the coming year. Again, the trademark thing that was done in the fall covers not only games but merchandise too, just like Banjo Kazooie got for its 20th anniversary. That said, Tales in Smash got a huge boost.

-DOOM stuff isn't surprising. Don't think it affects Cacomallow much though. Ubisoft costumes and now Arc Systems spirits show that big companies can have content without characters. People might hate it but Cacodemon could happen without a playable Doom Guy and that was always the case.

-Personally think a Direct is either coming on or going to be announced on the 28th. Again, I'll try to keep rumors and such to my wall and Discord.

Two big topics I wanted to cover in concerns to Geno:

-With the reveal of Byleth, Power of Six theory has taken a new turn and I'm going to go over it in my next post.

-I'm wanting to introduce a new theory called "Road to 100" theory and I want to map this out too. I'm not the first to think of this so I don't know who to specifically credit for the original observation but, again, I'll dissect that too.

Again, I try to be as transparent as possible so I'm free to people asking me on my wall or PMs here or on Discord. Just hit me up and I'll try to get to things as soon as I can.

Well i doubt that raises any chance for him. They just have a logo now. Like every other series too. If a logo raises the chance as a contributing factor, then by logic they now elevated their chances from a negative value (due to not having a logo) to the value all other series have too (due to having a logo) :D
Like one friend once said: Not every piece of video game news is related to Smash. It's even confirmed to have just been used to differentiate between main series and spin-off which pulls characters from different entries of the series:
http://www.abyssalchronicles.com/ne...logos-revealed-changes-in-game-categorization

Something i wanted to ask about Geno is: Does anyone know who at Sqauresoft actually designed him? I would be interested in knowing this. For most other characters the creator is known. I got that thought whenever i read of creators wanting their character in Smash and commenting about it.
So it'd would be really interesting to know the thoughts of Geno's designer about him as a character, his role in the game and if he is aware that Geno got quite a fanbase for just one normal game appeareance.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

The thing about Memoria is it is a Square-Enix Product. I remember me and others, probably a year or so ago, went over whether Yoko owns her music or not. It was...inconclusive at best.

I personally think Square owns it, but I could be wrong.

The copyright listing on the official YouTube listing shows ©SQUARE ENIX and ©Nintendo-

 

[Deleted member]

The copyright listing on the official YouTube listing shows ©SQUARE ENIX and ©Nintendo-

I think Square Enix actually do acknowledge Geno and Mario RPG because of being the first project with Nintendo and the excellent music. It’s not that they pretend it’s nonexistent. If Super Mario RPG was an important game to Square, they perhaps be open with Geno after FF and DQ.

 

[QQS]

Just spreading some love to the best

 

[MisterMike]

Thread is pretty slow, so here's a dank mashup I found.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The copyright listing on the official YouTube listing shows ©SQUARE ENIX and ©Nintendo-

Does this mean Nintendo owns even the original SMRPG music/shares rights with Square?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does this mean Nintendo owns even the original SMRPG music/shares rights with Square?

My guess is due to being a collaboration project, they have to be credited or it's co-owned. This is probably why Geno and other SMRPG content don't appear outside of Nintendo products or non-game merchandise. Just a guess, though.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Does this mean Nintendo owns even the original SMRPG music/shares rights with Square?

I believe the rights to most Square music is kinda a cluster **** and that may be the real reasons Square characters don't get too much music with em.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

I believe the rights to most Square music is kinda a cluster **** and that may be the real reasons Square characters don't get too much music with em.

I think it's because SE directly distributes the music of some of their series without owning the rights themselves. For FF and DQ respectively the rights of the music belong to the composers Nobuo Uematsu and Koichi Sugiyama. With the sales of the music they make lots of money as their music sells like hot cakes in Japan. That's why we only got the midi versions of their music in Smash. They don't want to lose on profits the sale of orchestral versions generate. It would be like giving the music out for free or ar least way cheaper for that 6 dollar character pack than actually purchasing their album. I think that's the main reasoning behind it.

For Mario RPG it would be different i think. Yoko Shimomura as far as i know does not own the rights of the music. Her rearrangements of songs originally composed by Koji Kondo seems to be completely owned by Nintendo. The Mario Bros 3 Bowser remix in Smash uses elements exclusive to the Bowser theme from Mario RPG. The Mario Bros 1/3 overworld remix that plays in Mario RPG in Mario's house got a remix in Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga (also in the remake where there is no mention of SE in the credits). Some of those Mario RPG rearrangements also played in Mario Party 1 on N64 with the Inside the Earthern Pipe underground remix being the most prominent one.
Now for the songs made from the ground up for Mario RPG like the Forest Maze, Castle Town or every other new song there, the rights to them seem to belong exclusively to SE. Shimomura wasn't involved in Fortune Street but Sugiyama did a cover of Castle Town on Peach's Castle board there.
I think the rights aren't complicated here and Smash could theoretically get a lot of songs from Mario RPG as no one loses on sales here as there are no (regular) orchestral albums sold with the SMRPG soundtrack.

 

[StarBot]

Knowing Sakurai ... The "bonus" fighter will be a Fire Emblem character unless there is one already in the new Pass ...

Please let Geno be in this Pass ... come on ....

I know not alot of Smash fans know anything about Fire Emblem, so I'm not gonna fault you

But as someone who do

I legitimately don't understand how or even the logic

Like, I get it, FE bad, FE overrepresented, Sakurai has a FE bais, he loves it so much, yada yada yada yada yada

But really thinking about it
Unless there somehow another FE game in the works in 2020 (which I highly doubt) or early 2021

I really don't understand how we can get another FE rep, if he really wanted to?

All the important side characters form Three Houses, has already been represented

Sakurai almost rarely goes back to old games for yearly franchises / revolving character / always new characters types , like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and Fire Emblem

I don't personally believe in the whole Spirit upgrade thing, but even if, none of the FE spirits with the of exception of maybe 1, don't have the obnoxious fan demand of being upgraded or all that special to begin with (almost all of them are side characters)

I know Sakurai could always "break are expectations" and "there are no fanrules"

But I legitimately frustrate me when people say that, cause I not only I get annoyed of forced pessimism, but even as a FE can't think of anyway how Sakurai could even add anymore

What your pessimism should be focusing on tho, is another Pokemon or Zelda rep though

(My apologies for the off tegent)

 

[Lord Woomy]

But really thinking about it
Unless there somehow another FE game in the works in 2020 (which I highly doubt) or early 2021

I really don't understand how we can get another FE rep, if he really wanted to?

Time for Sakurai to start making his own Fire Emblem OCs!

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Time for Sakurai to start making his own Fire Emblem OCs!

Sakurai is gonna put his waifu, Anna, into Smash

 

[Malo Mart]

Sup y'all.


Cacomallow is still real.


Thanks for listening to my TED talk, bye.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Sup y'all.


Cacomallow is still real.


Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

See, that's where you're wrong. I don't think you understand just how much I don't want it to be real, meaning that any doubt cast on it makes it immediately fake and wrong. The more I don't want it to be real, the less real it gets.

 

[Malo Mart]

See, that's where you're wrong. I don't think you understand just how much I don't want it to be real, meaning that any doubt cast on it makes it immediately fake and wrong. The more I don't want it to be real, the less real it gets.

Oh right! I forgot that reality is shaped by people's feeling and that doubts can refute any evidence. Yeah sorry guys! I'm taking the L.

 

[ActualGarbage]

Sakurai is gonna put his waifu, Anna, into Smash

At least Sakurai has good taste then, mamma mia.

 

[Fatmanonice]

JudgeHeihachi I'm not going to argue about Lloyd here. I know you really want Heihachi so I'm not going to force the issue. Still, consider this a formal thank you for the Power of Six theory. Because of you, we have a pretty good idea of what companies half of Season 2 belong to so thanks for that. We may not agree on the characters but it's going make this waiting period more bearable because we're probably not going in totally blind. Again, thank you and I'm glad we've been able to get so much mileage out of it.