Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Good point. I still argue that the rest of the points is unfortunately something to keep in mind, but you are right about that

If it helps, I was expecting the costumes at some point. I doubt they would've been playable. They also are clearly easier to make costumes for than Rayman, who has missing limb pieces due to his design. So a full costume does have invisible hitboxes, which arguably could be a balance issue. A Rayman hood could happen(though he might become playable, in which case, no costume worries).

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

This simply cannot be understated. This was the only pack that didn’t have 2 returning mii costumes added back. There is no valid reason for this. They have 2 easy choices literally from the company that they could have added. They aren’t “saving” the Geno mii costume for another Square character. That wouldn’t make any sense at all.

LADS

LADDIE!!!!! Agreed. They would have done us in by now if his costume was returning. I have hope.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, what is everyone's stance on the CacoMallow leak now?

I am a bit late to the party, but I don't think what was said in that Doom interview about Smash Bros. disconfirms anything, as it is just possibly NDA talk. I'd say Doomguy's, and by extension, Geno's chances of getting in Smash Bros. Ultimate, and the CacoMallow leak being real, are still fine.

 

[Fatmanonice]

On a ground level, Sora's kind of a lot of work and the situation really hasn't changed since literally the beginning of Ultimate. I'm not even talking about Disney or copyrights, I'm talking about the fact that Square has like zero interest in bringing any of the games to the Switch when the Switch is a port monster. The fact that things like Devil May Cry, Skyrim, the Witcher, Diablo, Overwatch, and Guilty Gear have appeared on major Nintendo consoles before Kingdom Hearts is absolutely surreal to me. We got ****in' Cuphead and both of the major Southpark RPGs before we got a single Kingdom Hearts port. That's really something else to me because there's so much overlap between Nintendo and Kingdom Hearts fans. I mean, look at Capcom and Devil May Cry. They're hard pushing DMC on Switch so that Dante will just be CONSIDERED for Smash and they've pushed 3 major ports... In about 8 MONTHS. Square has just kind of shrugged its shoulders at making any real efforts for even simple ports of the first games. Nevermind anything else I could argue, this speaks volumes to me.

 

[Icewolff92]

So, what is everyone's stance on the CacoMallow leak now?

I am a bit late to the party, but I don't think what was said in that Doom interview about Smash Bros. disconfirms anything, as it is just possibly NDA talk. I'd say Doomguy's, and by extension, Geno's chances of getting in Smash Bros. Ultimate, and the CacoMallow leak being real, are still fine.

Hard kill for CacoMallow, but it don¨t kill Geno

 

[mynameisBlade]

So, what is everyone's stance on the CacoMallow leak now?

I am a bit late to the party, but I don't think what was said in that Doom interview about Smash Bros. disconfirms anything, as it is just possibly NDA talk. I'd say Doomguy's, and by extension, Geno's chances of getting in Smash Bros. Ultimate, and the CacoMallow leak being real, are still fine.

I have thought it was real and I still think it could very well be. The Demon hat could be Bethesda's Mii outfit with no playable fighter. Unless picture and video leaks are assuredly fake looking, I like to keep an open mind. I'd be happy with any kind of Doom representation in Smash though.

 

[CannonStreak]

Hard kill for CacoMallow, but it don¨t kill Geno

Why is that, exactly?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why is that, exactly?

The interview, which implies zero Doom content was negotiated for in the end.

I do admit it only speaks of a playable character, but I can agree that it's a pretty damning moment. I consider it dead too with that evidence, and knowing it can be faked.

 

[Icewolff92]

The interview, which implies zero Doom content was negotiated for in the end.

I do admit it only speaks of a playable character, but I can agree that it's a pretty damning moment. I consider it dead too with that evidence, and knowing it can be faked.

pretty much this

 

[Firox]

With only 6/7 characters left, the number of potential promotions was always going to be small anyways. That's why I've had the same mentality since the summer: at most we'll get three, if that. That's why I'm leaning hard on ONE assist trophy promotion, ONE spirit promotion, and ONE costume promotion and, for the sake of "fairness", each will probably be from a different company.

Geno would represent both a spirit AND a mii costume upgrade. I predict that we'll be lucky to see one more Spirit upgrade besides that.

 

[JarBear]

As for the CacoMallow leak, I still think its in the same boat as it has been. 50/50, though I personally slide a bit more real due to it being a video leak.

In regards to the whole Doom Guy thing ... look at what we got in a form of a Mii costume without have a playable fighter. Altair from Assassins Creed. This opens up new possibilities of getting Mii costumes from franchises without having a playable fighter from a company WITHOUT a fighter.

So it can still be true, may not have Doom Guy as a fighter, but can have a Mii fighter from the franchise. Random, yes, but hey, it can be possible.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, I still think the implication that "zero Doom content was negotiated for in the end" thing may have been just to throw us off, to keep us from knowing the real stuff happening or what may happen, you know.

Not saying the CacoMallow leak is real, but anything is possible, ya know.

 

[Firox]

The interview, which implies zero Doom content was negotiated for in the end.

I do admit it only speaks of a playable character, but I can agree that it's a pretty damning moment. I consider it dead too with that evidence, and knowing it can be faked.

"Doubt" and "hard kill" are pretty different things though. I'll admit Doomslayer's chances as a playable character are pretty much dead at this point, however, the interview offered zero evidence as to the complete lack of Doom content. That said, it does leave room for doubt in Cacomallow being real, however that leak can't be "hard killed", as in irrefutably fake, unless:

A) The faker finally steps forward to take credit by demonstrating how they did it

or

B) ANYONE else produces a flawless (or even more detailed) recreation of the leak, which has yet to be achieved

 

[CannonStreak]

"Doubt" and "hard kill" are pretty different things though. I'll admit Doomslayer's chances as a playable character are pretty much dead at this point, however, the interview offered zero evidence as to the complete lack of Doom content. That said, it does leave room for doubt in Cacomallow being real, however that leak can't be "hard killed", as in irrefutably fake, unless:

A) The faker finally steps forward to take credit by demonstrating how they did it

or

B) ANYONE else produces a flawless (or even more detailed) recreation of the leak, which has yet to be achieved

That said, I do believe we are getting a Bethesda rep in Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Just not Doomguy. Whoever the Bethesda rep is, though, the Cacodemon costume may still come with it.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

JudgeHeihachi I'm not going to argue about Lloyd here. I know you really want Heihachi so I'm not going to force the issue. Still, consider this a formal thank you for the Power of Six theory. Because of you, we have a pretty good idea of what companies half of Season 2 belong to so thanks for that. We may not agree on the characters but it's going make this waiting period more bearable because we're probably not going in totally blind. Again, thank you and I'm glad we've been able to get so much mileage out of it.

Thanks, I appreciate the nice words!

 

[MattX20]

With only 6/7 characters left, the number of potential promotions was always going to be small anyways. That's why I've had the same mentality since the summer: at most we'll get three, if that. That's why I'm leaning hard on ONE assist trophy promotion, ONE spirit promotion, and ONE costume promotion and, for the sake of "fairness", each will probably be from a different company.

I'm speculating that Isaac would be our AT promotion if we do get one. A lot of people were upset over Isaac's treatment, so it would give Nintendo a franchise that would go over well with European fans, as Golden Sun is very big there. And Geno being the Spirit upgrade is pretty self explanitory.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I'm speculating that Isaac would be our AT promotion if we do get one. A lot of people were upset over Isaac's treatment, so it would give Nintendo a franchise that would go over well with European fans, as Golden Sun is very big there. And Geno being the Spirit upgrade is pretty self explanitory.

I could see this happening if Sakurai can mentally prepare himself for World WAH 2 at that point...



Part of me feels as though Waluigi and Geno are in the same boat in terms of how bad people want them, but I still have no idea if Sakurai would put WAH in due to being harassed so much after his AT reveal. And if an AT that is NOT Waluigi gets upgraded.. I can for sure see it going to Isaac OR Skull Kid even.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I feel like Smash ultimately always goes back to Nintendo. The companies and IPs they choose typically have a long history with Nintendo, a strong relationship, or both. Even with Joker, Nintendo has a very long relationship and strong relationship with Atlus, with Altus even making a major SMT game for the Wii U when the system was doing hilariously bad: Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE. This is why I've been arguing that if we get another Square rep, it will be a rep important to the "Nintendo brand."

 

[Franco Geno]

With only 6/7 characters left, the number of potential promotions was always going to be small anyways. That's why I've had the same mentality since the summer: at most we'll get three, if that. That's why I'm leaning hard on ONE assist trophy promotion, ONE spirit promotion, and ONE costume promotion and, for the sake of "fairness", each will probably be from a different company.

So we could say that the promotions line up would be something like this:
Assist Trophy: Waluigi
Spirit: Geno
Mii Costume: Lloyd/ Heihachi

 

[pinshadow]

I've had another thought pop into my mind while thinking about Pass 2, so screw it, time for more speculation, this time about Byleth and Nintendo stuff of all things.

I was considering whether or not we would get more first-party stuff, and whether they would be promotional picks like Byleth, which led me back to how weird of a promotional pick Byleth actually is, coming out 6 months after their game released and being the last character in the pass, which led me to think about the pass's conception in the first place.

So the pass was finalized in November according to Sakurai. The question this raises is "Who was the last character to actually be finalized?"

Joker? I mean, he was the first character revealed and Sega was already working on the game, so it wasn't him.

Hero? Same situation as Joker, and its been speculated alot he was meant to be base game/the first DLC, so it probably wasn't him.

Banjo? Everything seems to be pointing to him being negotiated in mid-2018, somewhere around E3, and Sakurai discussed how well negotiations went, so I doubt its him.

Terry? Maybe, but SNK's seeming willingness to let the Smash team do whatever they want implies they were pretty lax on the negotiations, so I doubt is was them.

That just leaves Byleth as the last character, which makes sense given our time table. Characters take about a year from raw conception to completion, and given that Byleth was basically completed in November it works out.

So what is the point of knowing this? Personally, I don't think Byleth was locked in stone until around the time Sakurai tweeted, and instead, I believe Nintendo always wanted some newer first party character in the pass, but it was actually between several choices, and one of those in my eyes was actually Sylux. Lets think about this for a minute. Hes one of the most peculiar characters missing as spirits, even though 2 of the other hunters are present and hes by far the most well known, and he is confirmed to play a major role in Prime 4, both by the developers themselves and being teased at the end of both Prime 3 and Federation Force. Around this time though, its clear Prime 4 isnt going well and is likely getting moved to Retro, pushing back the release by years. Sylux is off the table and Sakurai chooses between Byleth and likely a new Pokemon, and picks Byleth because he already added a Pokemon this game.

Does this mean I think Sylux is coming eventually? Honestly, maybe, and if we do indeed get another "shill pick" from Nintendo, its him.

 

[OffBi]

What if...
Spirit: Geno
Spirit, Assist: Waluigi
Spirir, Assist, Costume: Isaac?
Ehh?
eh...

 

[P47]

What if...
Spirit: Geno
Spirit, Assist: Waluigi
Spirir, Assist, Costume: Isaac?
Ehh?
eh...

Spirit, Assist, Costume, Boss: Rathalos

 

[Lord Woomy]

What game comes out later this year? That¨s right, the Final Fantasy 7 remake. Yes, it does not need any promotional help like Fire Emblem, but if they promote FE, what stops to promote FF/ remake? As much I hate to say it, but adding someone like Sepiroth would be a big deal to add no matter if we like it or not.

The issue with this is, Nintendo had reason to promote both 3 Houses and DQ11 since they're both on Nintendo consoles. If they do well, Nintendo still gets a slice of that pie. FF7 remake isn't coming to Switch and I highly doubt it ever will, all promoting it will do is give Nintendo's rival more money at the end of the day.

 

[Firox]

Spirit, Assist, Costume, Boss: Rathalos

"Too big."

 

[Heoj]

Ive seen some people saying that sephiroth might get in over geno to promote the ff7 remake but how the hell does that work if the ff7 remake isnt... You know... Coming to the switch. So theres nothing to really promote

 

[Deleted member]

Ive seen some people saying that sephiroth might get in over geno to promote the ff7 remake but how the hell does that work if the ff7 remake isnt... You know... Coming to the switch. So theres nothing to really promote

It’s pretty useless to add Sephiroth since you already added Cloud to appeal FF fans. There are multiple ports of FF including 7 after Cloud’s inclusion. Wouldn’t that be good enough? The Xbox One would get FF7 Remake way before the Switch Pro if that console is really happening.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ive seen some people saying that sephiroth might get in over geno to promote the ff7 remake but how the hell does that work if the ff7 remake isnt... You know... Coming to the switch. So theres nothing to really promote

Not to mention we've yet to have a major third party franchise double dip outside of echoes. Would Final Fantasy really be the first to get that honor? I've been arguing it forever but if another third party franchise would be the first to get a second totally unique rep, it'd probably be Sonic.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

I've had another thought pop into my mind while thinking about Pass 2, so screw it, time for more speculation, this time about Byleth and Nintendo stuff of all things.

I was considering whether or not we would get more first-party stuff, and whether they would be promotional picks like Byleth, which led me back to how weird of a promotional pick Byleth actually is, coming out 6 months after their game released and being the last character in the pass, which led me to think about the pass's conception in the first place.

So the pass was finalized in November according to Sakurai. The question this raises is "Who was the last character to actually be finalized?"

Joker? I mean, he was the first character revealed and Sega was already working on the game, so it wasn't him.

Hero? Same situation as Joker, and its been speculated alot he was meant to be base game/the first DLC, so it probably wasn't him.

Banjo? Everything seems to be pointing to him being negotiated in mid-2018, somewhere around E3, and Sakurai discussed how well negotiations went, so I doubt its him.

Terry? Maybe, but SNK's seeming willingness to let the Smash team do whatever they want implies they were pretty lax on the negotiations, so I doubt is was them.

That just leaves Byleth as the last character, which makes sense given our time table. Characters take about a year from raw conception to completion, and given that Byleth was basically completed in November it works out.

So what is the point of knowing this? Personally, I don't think Byleth was locked in stone until around the time Sakurai tweeted, and instead, I believe Nintendo always wanted some newer first party character in the pass, but it was actually between several choices, and one of those in my eyes was actually Sylux. Lets think about this for a minute. Hes one of the most peculiar characters missing as spirits, even though 2 of the other hunters are present and hes by far the most well known, and he is confirmed to play a major role in Prime 4, both by the developers themselves and being teased at the end of both Prime 3 and Federation Force. Around this time though, its clear Prime 4 isnt going well and is likely getting moved to Retro, pushing back the release by years. Sylux is off the table and Sakurai chooses between Byleth and likely a new Pokemon, and picks Byleth because he already added a Pokemon this game.

Does this mean I think Sylux is coming eventually? Honestly, maybe, and if we do indeed get another "shill pick" from Nintendo, its him.

I think if we get another shill pick it really is either him or a BOTW2 character (unless another currently unannounced game has a higher priority of being promoted).
I mostly think a Gen 8 Pokemon isn't happening due to the Spirit Event.
We currently have no idea when BOTW 2 or Prime 4 are releasing. That might be the reason for them having December 2021 as a placeholder. Dependent on when the game releases we might have to wait a long time between character #10 and #11.
Both would make sense. Sylux for being a very glaring omission when it comes to spirits and being a main character in Prime 4 and BOTW2 seems to have Zelda as a playable character there because Aonuma was hesistant to answer that question and it's been a request from Zelda fans since a long time to actually have the titular character playable.
Sakurai recently commented BOTW's Zelda didn't fit as she was a researcher, but if she has a unique playable moveset in the sequel her chances definitely improve because being playable in their home series seems to make the chances to get into Smash better than just being an NPC.
I don't know how fan reception for either character would be, Slyux seems to be neglected by Metroid Fans since the Prime Hunters DS hype was over and BOTW2 Zelda would mostly be called another Zelda (either the 2nd or 3rd if you count Sheik). There is also the case about that Zombie Ganon, but that gets even more confusing. Some say he might not be evil anymore as most of his Malice has been absorbed out of him which created Calamity Ganon, but that's another theory with no evidence currently, but having a second Ganondorf with a completely unique moveset would satisfy both fans of the old moveset and those who want more unique Zelda characters and a unique Ganondorf.

 

[Akg0001]

My current theory based on past precedent and Power of Six:

1 Nintendo (all DLC seasons have had at least one Nintendo character)

1 Capcom (Power of Six, Capcom is being less than subtle about Dante)

1 Namco (Power of Six, STILL no second rep despite making the last two Smash games)

1 Square (Power of Six, except Namco, all the "BIG" Japanese companies involved since at least Smash 4 have three reps)

At least one Western (Banjo is right now the only true Western character, there's no way in hell that's staying)

At least one new company to Smash (pretty much a given. Smash 4 DLC had Square and Ultimate had Microsoft and SNK)

Those are my basic thoughts.

I think our pass will look like this:

1. Nintendo: A Fire Emblem character... Ok seriously, It will be someone from BoTW2. We have 3 Links, 2 Zeldas. And we will get our 2. unique badass Ganondorf. Believe me.

2. It has to be Dante. Most popular left Capcom character. Nintendo knows. Capcom knows. Win win for everybody.

3. Namco: I can't decide between Lloyd and Heihachi. But after thinking some more, Sakurai implemented the "auto-facing" mechanic for fighting game characters. Heihachi could get good use from it. The not playable character from these 2 will be Mii costume obviously.

4. Square: I will be honest, my most wanted Square character is 2B, but I think we will get Geno. It still baffles my mind his costume is missing, even though they know he is very popular.

5. So on the western and new company thing... What about Crash? He is both. Also really popular. Leaks aside, Im confident about Crash.

6. Microsoft character: Its really weird we got no Microsoft Mii costumes. There is one thing Im 100% sure will happen, we will get Minecraft content in Smash. In what form? Idk. But it will happen. Sakurai said: "Smash is celebration of gaming". If you say such a thing, then the most sold game on this planet has to be in Smash. Its either Steve or Master Chief for playable character. The not playable character will be Mii costume obviously.

TLDR: (also in order I think they will happen)

1. Crash
2. Dante
3. Steve/Master Chief
4. Lloyd/Heihachi
5. Geno
6. BoTW2 character

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ive seen some people saying that sephiroth might get in over geno to promote the ff7 remake but how the hell does that work if the ff7 remake isnt... You know... Coming to the switch. So theres nothing to really promote

Persona 5 didnt come to switch either. And no, Im not talking about Scramble. That said, Id rather have Sora then anyone else

 

[Firox]

Not to mention we've yet to have a major third party franchise double dip outside of echoes. Would Final Fantasy really be the first to get that honor? I've been arguing it forever but if another third party franchise would be the first to get a second totally unique rep, it'd probably be Sonic.

To be honest, I still think it's pretty jacked up that Sonic hasn't gotten another rep since Brawl. I was really pulling for Knuckles and was pretty bummed to see him end up in AT hell with Shadow. Both would have fit perfectly into Smash, Shadow being an echo at the very least.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

To be honest, I still think it's pretty jacked up that Sonic hasn't gotten another rep since Brawl. I was really pulling for Knuckles and was pretty bummed to see him end up in AT hell with Shadow. Both would have fit perfectly into Smash, Shadow being an echo at the very least.

Not gonna get too off topic, but Robotnik would slap.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Gah... This is why I want the Direct to get here already... Like I've been saying since the fall, Nintendo seems to want to go hard and heavy with long time fan requests in 2020. Going to go ahead and use the r word but it's only January and the following rumors are already heavily supported:

-Paper Mario reboot
-2D Metroid
-Fire Emblem 6/7 remake
-Pikmin 3/Super Mario 3D World ports
-Super Nintendo Online dump
-25th anniversary of Tales plans for Switch
-Rare Replay and Master Chief Collection

Again, we haven't even gotten a Direct yet and we have plenty of people aside from me saying "yeah, these are probably happening in 2020." This is why I believe if Geno's happening, it's going to be this year and why the picks for Season 2 are really going to resonate with the Smash fanbase. I know, I know... "STFU Fatman" but this next Direct really is going to set the pace for the rest of the year.

 

[Vector Victor]

Not to mention we've yet to have a major third party franchise double dip outside of echoes. Would Final Fantasy really be the first to get that honor? I've been arguing it forever but if another third party franchise would be the first to get a second totally unique rep, it'd probably be Sonic.

That would be ironic if Square is the first, maybe only, company to have a series like FF get a fully unique second character considering their embarrassingly lackluster content in Smash now. Almost be insulting, really.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That would be ironic if Square is the first, maybe only, company to have a series like FF get a fully unique second character considering their embarrassingly lackluster content in Smash now. Almost be insulting, really.

There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said that all the packs would come with a stage and spirit board so... A second Final Fantasy VII stage and Final Fantasy VII spirits despite the fact that they didn't even bother doing this in the base game?

 

[Firox]

There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said that all the packs would come with a stage and spirit board so... A second Final Fantasy VII stage and Final Fantasy VII spirits despite the fact that they didn't even bother doing this in the base game?

Dang, this is probably the best logical argument against Sephiroth I've seen yet. And it kinda sucks since I'd actually be really stoked to see Sephie get in there, but yeah, you've got one heck of a point. SE only put 2 cloud spirits and 2 FF music tracks in the base game. That's the dead minimum. FF holds the record for the least amount of content of any franchise represented in the game. That really says something. Hard to believe that they would more than double FF's content with another rep. All the more reason I think the next SE rep would have to be either Geno or someone like 2B. It would be someone that brings a new world into the fray.

EDIT: Yeah, the more I think about it, if we get another SE rep, I'm almost dead sure it'll be Geno. It just fits too damn well. The only way he gets costumed again would be if they gave him and Chocobo the "Megaman X treatment" and just randomly crap him out alongside some totally unrelated character. Though, I feel if they were going to do such a thing, they would have done so already.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Gah... This is why I want the Direct to get here already... Like I've been saying since the fall, Nintendo seems to want to go hard and heavy with long time fan requests in 2020. Going to go ahead and use the r word but it's only January and the following rumors are already heavily supported:

-Paper Mario reboot
-2D Metroid
-Fire Emblem 6/7 remake
-Pikmin 3/Super Mario 3D World ports
-Super Nintendo Online dump
-25th anniversary of Tales plans for Switch
-Rare Replay and Master Chief Collection

Again, we haven't even gotten a Direct yet and we have plenty of people aside from me saying "yeah, these are probably happening in 2020." This is why I believe if Geno's happening, it's going to be this year and why the picks for Season 2 are really going to resonate with the Smash fanbase. I know, I know... "STFU Fatman" but this next Direct really is going to set the pace for the rest of the year.

Are you gonna call this month or early February?

 

[3DSNinja]

Alright, my calls for FP2.
1. Ryu Hayubusa
2. Geno
3. Lloyd
4. Master Chief
5. Dante or Phoenix
6. Bandana Dee.

The fifth one is the one i'm unsure of, because Dante and Phoenix are both incredibly popular, and Dante could easily be leak bait
Also Waa isn't here cause I'm pretty sure he's leakbait, look at Byleth. No one leaked them, which means Nintendo has improved in regards to preventing leaks of their characters, and Waluigi is the ultimate leakbait, whereas Dee isn't very big, but would still be a popular character, and just feels like the perfect character.
Then again i could be wrong and Fighter 6 is actually Dan Hibiki...

 

[Lyncario]

Not to mention we've yet to have a major third party franchise double dip outside of echoes. Would Final Fantasy really be the first to get that honor? I've been arguing it forever but if another third party franchise would be the first to get a second totally unique rep, it'd probably be Sonic.

I would say that if Reimu joins, Touhou has a good chance of being the first third party franchise to get a second unique character in a future Smash, mainly because Marisa is just almost as important to Touhou as Reimu is(for comparaison, far more than what Tails or Shadow are to Sonic), and that would honestly be a move that Sakurai would do.

 

[Rikarte]

Yo, RichaadEB has made a new Beware the Forest's Mushrooms cover! Check it out!
He even mentioned Geno for Smash in the description! Love this guy and his work.