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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Houndstooth

Smash Ace
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808
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Alabama
So I was writing up my thoughts and predictions for pass 2 and when I got to Geno, I had a pretty major epiphany that's honestly boosted my thoughts on Geno getting in considerably.

One of the main arguments against Geno I've seen getting thrown around is this idea that Square/Nintendo would throw in other Square franchises/characters first. I mean, it makes sense, Square might just want to throw in someone from Nier, or World Ends With You, or Bravely Default instead right? I was going to mention them as likely possibilities instead of Geno when my brain suddenly thought back to last year and the whole Seven Squares fiasco and stuff clicked into place. Let's look back at the list.
  • Sora
  • Geno
  • Crono
  • Sephiroth
  • Erdrick
  • Luminary
  • Slime
These are all the characters that had been heard being thrown around Nintendo for Square DLC. No 2B, no Neku, no Bravely Default, these are the characters that seemed to be on the table in terms of Smash DLC. Fast Forward to sometime in early-mid 2019 and Pass 2 DLC starts being decided. Are Square and Nintendo going to suddenly say "ok actually, we want to negotiate about all these other characters instead" even though they didn't seem interested less than a year before? I don't think so. Looking at who's left on the list once the DQ stuff is off, we have
  • Sephiroth, who I don't see getting in period, given Square's crazy rationing of Final Fantasy Content and the fact that Cloud was apparently the hardest character to get back anyway. Plus the idea that no third-party franchise has no more than one character that isn't an echo, and I'm throwing Sephiroth out.
  • Crono, who felt more like leakbait for the Dragon Quest stuff anyway, but even if we assume he isn't I don't see him getting in. He's from a franchise that hasn't had a proper game in over 20 years and that Sqaure seems to want nothing to do with, and isn't really highly requested for Smash either, sorry Crono.
  • Sora, who seems to be stuck in licensing hell. He's easily one of the top 5, possibly top 3 most requested characters for Smash, but while I'm not writing him out, I don't see it happening, and I think we would know if he was.
Really just wanted to note two things here.

Crono, who felt more like leakbait for the Dragon Quest stuff anyway, but even if we assume he isn't I don't see him getting in. He's from a franchise that hasn't had a proper game in over 20 years and that Sqaure seems to want nothing to do with, and isn't really highly requested for Smash either, sorry Crono.
I bolded it. Does this not do the same for Geno? As a huge fan of both, I am not sure if we can use this as a thing against one character, but then pretend that it doesn't affect another.

Sora, who seems to be stuck in licensing hell. He's easily one of the top 5, possibly top 3 most requested characters for Smash, but while I'm not writing him out, I don't see it happening, and I think we would know if he was.
Same as above, pretty much. Hasn't this always been a big hurdle for Geno? If it wasn't for involvement with Square and Nintendo, we would see him in the game already. Obviously, Disney is a lot more cumbersome than Nintendo. However, I do think Geno is in a very similar predicament.
And that leaves us with the G-Man himself, who
  • Has been one of the top requested characters for Smash for the last several years, and has been heavily requested since before Brawl
  • Sakurai has already expressed his interest in making him a fighter
  • He, along with Mallow, are the only other Square characters represented in the game that aren't from Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy got literally NOTHING. His rights are already negotiated.
  • Suspiciously had his Mii Costume, along with Chocobo, not be released with Hero even though every other pack so far has released with 2 returning costumes, and nothing replaced them.
  • Would be among the first characters decided for Pass 2 due to these circumstances, already being negotiated, which explains why, even if the pass wasn't finalized until November, his Mii Costume moved from Hero to some other point in time, and not be replaced.
  • Hell, if Geno was one of the first characters deciced, it also serves to explain certain other things, like the Music Copyrights being taken down as early as May-June and the Mii Costume list having the Mallow and Smithy costumes that far in advance.
So yea, taking all this into account, I'm changing my opinion of Geno from "might happen" to "I think he's actually happening", and if he is, he is coming sooner rather than later. I can honestly see him being 6 at this point, at the latest 8. He's not an E3 level reveal in my eyes but I think he's the perfect character to start the pass off strong.
Now, this doesn't change this at all. Geno still has a lot going for him, and is a character I still want. Since Sonic got in during Brawl and I joined the forums, Geno has been on my most wanted list. With Chief being an actual possibility, he has slid to my second spot. I still want him, but just wanted to point out that some of things things mentioned against Crono(Chrono Trigger may be my favorite game of all time) and Sora(would be pretty hype!) are the same arguments against my man Geno.
 

Inawordyes

Smash Lord
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East Coast, USA
So, thinking of the "Road to 100" theory, after FPv2 is over we'd be sitting at 99 total if it's just the characters straight without any alt character costumes or echoes. Maybe we get one last bonus character? If we're getting Waluigi in the FP, would it be inconceivable that Isaac is the last character and the DLC ends with him being promoted from an AT as well? Giving us Banjo, Geno, Waluigi and Isaac in the DLC. Or maybe even swap Waluigi and Isaac, but either way have one of them in the FP and the other at the tail-end, post-pass and the final send-off.
 

OptimisticStrifer

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
2,403
So, thinking of the "Road to 100" theory, after FPv2 is over we'd be sitting at 99 total if it's just the characters straight without any alt character costumes or echoes. Maybe we get one last bonus character? If we're getting Waluigi in the FP, would it be inconceivable that Isaac is the last character and the DLC ends with him being promoted from an AT as well? Giving us Banjo, Geno, Waluigi and Isaac in the DLC. Or maybe even swap Waluigi and Isaac, but either way have one of them in the FP and the other at the tail-end, post-pass and the final send-off.
Isaac would be nice yeah. I don't think they'd end on him though.

Although, I think there might be a third pass anyways, so it doesn't matter too much
 

SSGuy

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Without a doubt, the colors I would look forward to the most for Geno are default, Sailor Cape and Star Cape.

I normally run default on all my characters aside from Blue Game and Watch but I think I would rotate any of those three.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Gah... This is why I want the Direct to get here already... Like I've been saying since the fall, Nintendo seems to want to go hard and heavy with long time fan requests in 2020. Going to go ahead and use the r word but it's only January and the following rumors are already heavily supported:

-Paper Mario reboot
-2D Metroid
-Fire Emblem 6/7 remake
-Pikmin 3/Super Mario 3D World ports
-Super Nintendo Online dump
-25th anniversary of Tales plans for Switch
-Rare Replay and Master Chief Collection

Again, we haven't even gotten a Direct yet and we have plenty of people aside from me saying "yeah, these are probably happening in 2020." This is why I believe if Geno's happening, it's going to be this year and why the picks for Season 2 are really going to resonate with the Smash fanbase. I know, I know... "STFU Fatman" but this next Direct really is going to set the pace for the rest of the year.
Do you have any updates on which characters are now suspicious of being leakbait in insider circles?
 

YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
So, in regards to what Fatman was mentioning earlier about Devil May Cry and Dante's chances in Smash (I'll get to Geno in a second, I PROMISE) and, I just wanted to share a thought that occurred to me earlier today.

So, among the missing Mii Costumes, there's the Rathalos costume right? When thinking about it, and immediately thinking about Dante... the resemblance clicked. Please view the following images (in spoilers for the sake of not stressing the thread too much).



When I thought about them, they both share quite a number of similarities.
  • Both have dragon-like features (I know in Dante's case he's a demon but the wings still look dragon-like)
  • The element of fire surges through them (in the case of the Rathalos costume on its blade, while for Dante it's in parts of his body while in demon form).
  • Both wield a broad sword
  • Both Monster Hunter and Devil May Cry are Capcom IPs
If anything, I feel that the ideal character for the Rathalos Mii costume to come along with would have to be Dante (as a nod to his Devil Trigger and the fact that they both wield broad swords).

Now, the mandatory Geno quota. I'm still just waiting for him to be announced already, along with Super Mario RPG finally being added to the SNES NSO Library. :tired: Then, those who have yet to experience this gem of a game from the late era of the SNES will learn of the wondrous collaborative project Nintendo and Squaresoft (before it became Square Enix) brought onto this world.:ness:
 

T2by4

Smash Lord
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Jan 3, 2019
Messages
1,165
>Ridley gets revealed in E3 2018
>Banjo gets revealed in E3 2019

Anyone else think Nintendo is going to finally complete the trinity of Never Evers this E3? ( I know it was originally K rool, ridley, and geno as the original trinity, but Banjo also fits). I just realized how much potential Geno truly has for E3 this year.
giphy (2).gif
 
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Franco Geno

Smash Lord
Joined
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Argentina
>Ridley gets revealed in E3 2018
>Banjo gets revealed in E3 2019

Anyone else think Nintendo is going to finally complete the trinity of Never Evers this E3? ( I know it was originally K rool, ridley, and geno as the original trinity, but Banjo also fits). I just realized how much potential Geno truly has for E3 this year.
View attachment 259540
The reactions are gonna be fantastic
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
>Ridley gets revealed in E3 2018
>Banjo gets revealed in E3 2019

Anyone else think Nintendo is going to finally complete the trinity of Never Evers this E3? ( I know it was originally K rool, ridley, and geno as the original trinity, but Banjo also fits). I just realized how much potential Geno truly has for E3 this year.
View attachment 259540
It makes too much sense now!
 

T2by4

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
1,165
The reactions are gonna be fantastic
Fr. Geno is the final piece missing. Idc who gets in after, rivals, joke characters, it doesn't matter. Geno is that final character I feel truly needs to be in to be satisfied.
 

MattX20

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
6,325
Geno could be a general Direct reveal too, especially if they go heavy on the Super Nintendo titles for the Nintendo Switch online stuff. Either way, this may finally be our year
 

Franco Geno

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Fr. Geno is the final piece missing. Idc who gets in after, rivals, joke characters, it doesn't matter. Geno is that final character I feel truly needs to be in to be satisfied.
Same, i have a good feeling he's gonna make it. he's the missing one from the big requested characters
 

LipeCau

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
35
After deciding to buy every DLC in the game because of banjo, I'd pay 30 dollars for Geno alone. I'm not joking, the pass could be 5 fire emblems and Geno lol
 

SSGuy

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Dallas, TX/FGCU
3DS FC
4871-4520-9643
After deciding to buy every DLC in the game because of banjo, I'd pay 30 dollars for Geno alone. I'm not joking, the pass could be 5 fire emblems and Geno lol
Hopefully with Byleth teasing the idea of another sword character, this means that this will be the end of sword characters in Smash Bros. We need more guns in this game.

Glad to hear you got your dream pick. We appreciate your support for our guy!
 

YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,242
>Ridley gets revealed in E3 2018
>Banjo gets revealed in E3 2019

Anyone else think Nintendo is going to finally complete the trinity of Never Evers this E3? ( I know it was originally K rool, ridley, and geno as the original trinity, but Banjo also fits). I just realized how much potential Geno truly has for E3 this year.
View attachment 259540
Following this train of thought, I could see the following order panning out (at least the first three up to E3 2020):

- Challenger Pack 6: Dante (announcement on Nintendo Direct Q1 2020... whether that be next week or some time in February)
- Challenger Pack 7: Crash Bandicoot (announcement at the start of the E3 2020 Nintendo Direct)
- Challenger Pack 8: Geno (that surprise reveal near the end of the E3 2020 Nintendo Direct a-la Banjo; followed by a Super Mario RPG sequel announcement).

The first two Challenger Packs however (6 and 7) to me feel like they could be either Dante, Crash, or Doom Slayer in any order. For example:

Order A:
CP 6 = Dante
CP 7 = Crash

Order B:
CP 6 = Crash
CP 7 = Dante

Order C:
CP 6 = Doom Slayer
CP 7 = Dante

Order D:
CP 6 = Doom Slayer
CP 7 = Crash

Order E:
CP 6 = Dante
CP 7 = Doom Slayer

Order F:
CP 6 = Crash
CP 7 = Doom Slayer

Also, I want to stress that this is my opinion. Just a humble opinion that's all. Nothing to take super seriously.
 

RingJ5

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
617
I know this is probably going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but: In my eyes, Dante getting in over Phoenix would be the equivalent of, say, 2B getting in over Geno.

“Oh, a character with serious Smash support, and one with historic, heavy ties to Nintendo? Nah, **** that, let’s go with the character that’s only been around in speculation for like a year or so.”

I don’t particularly have anything against Dante(or 2B, for that matter) as characters, but as Smash requests it disappoints me that Dante appears to be seen as an inevitability even though he historically has had far less support compared to Phoenix until incredibly recently. (Also, I know that Dante obviously has far more of a legacy than 2B, but using Sora for example wouldn’t really work as a comparison as he’s also been heavily requested over the years, which Dante hasn’t particularly been)

As for Geno, he’s definitely an E3 reveal. Probably with a character better-known to the general populace, so both groups get something to be excited about.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
So, in regards to what Fatman was mentioning earlier about Devil May Cry and Dante's chances in Smash (I'll get to Geno in a second, I PROMISE) and, I just wanted to share a thought that occurred to me earlier today.

So, among the missing Mii Costumes, there's the Rathalos costume right? When thinking about it, and immediately thinking about Dante... the resemblance clicked. Please view the following images (in spoilers for the sake of not stressing the thread too much).



When I thought about them, they both share quite a number of similarities.
  • Both have dragon-like features (I know in Dante's case he's a demon but the wings still look dragon-like)
  • The element of fire surges through them (in the case of the Rathalos costume on its blade, while for Dante it's in parts of his body while in demon form).
  • Both wield a broad sword
  • Both Monster Hunter and Devil May Cry are Capcom IPs
If anything, I feel that the ideal character for the Rathalos Mii costume to come along with would have to be Dante (as a nod to his Devil Trigger and the fact that they both wield broad swords).

Now, the mandatory Geno quota. I'm still just waiting for him to be announced already, along with Super Mario RPG finally being added to the SNES NSO Library. :tired: Then, those who have yet to experience this gem of a game from the late era of the SNES will learn of the wondrous collaborative project Nintendo and Squaresoft (before it became Square Enix) brought onto this world.:ness:
Huh looks like it could be something not sure if it is. But dang it would be cool of he came with that Mii Costume! Dante also yeah also hoping for Geno 's inclusion like crazy!
 

Andwooooo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
258
As for Geno, he’s definitely an E3 reveal. Probably with a character better-known to the general populace, so both groups get something to be excited about.
Doom Slayer, obvi.
 
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RingJ5

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
617
Doom Slayer, obvi.
See, even disregarding the big, controversial interview, I personally doubt they’d put two Western characters so close to each other, since we have a bunch of different sources all saying that Crash is next.

If it wasn’t a Fighter’s Pass, I’d say that a Waluigi and Geno double reveal would be absolutely perfect, but since it is I can no longer see that happening.
 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
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Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
Sakurai recently commented BOTW's Zelda didn't fit as she was a researcher, but if she has a unique playable moveset in the sequel her chances definitely improve because being playable in their home series seems to make the chances to get into Smash better than just being an NPC.
If we are getting another Zelda rep, please for the love of God let it be someone else than Zelda or Link.
 

TX-55

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
284
It just dawned on me, Nintendo likes associating Waluigi with April Fools Day, and a bait and switch reveal beforehand in January or February featuring Dante(?) and Waluigi, similar to Banjo(?) and Duck Hunt wouldn't be farfetched.
But instead of Dante actually showing up, it's just Waluigi laughing at the audience, followed by a trailer showcasing Waluigi's moves and abilities, and ending with a teaser similar to Terry featuring the actual Dante.
Dante's teaser at the end of Waluigi's trailer builds up hype, and gives fans an incentive to buy Fighters Pass 2 if the Wah wasn't to their liking.

Waluigi is slated to release on April

This leads us to E3 2020, the presentation starts and Dante's full CGI trailer is shown in all its glory, fast-forward to the end of Nintendo's E3 2020 presentation, we are treated to Geno's reveal trailer a-la Banjo.

Dante is released after the E3 2020 presentation immediately, while Geno is slated for release on August.

Leaving us with just Lloyd, #10, and #11.
 
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Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
no Microsoft Mii costumes
Cuphead says hello concidering Microsoft owns the IP. There is a reason why the Nindie said "thanks to our good friends over at Microsoft" when they presented Cuphead for Switch.
 
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SkeffVEVO

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
157
Cuphead says hello concidering Microsoft owns the IP. There is a reason why the Nindie said "thanks to our good friends over at Microsoft" when they presented Cuphead for Switch.
Microsoft just funded the game and published it, they don't own the ip they only had console exclusivity which they broke themselves for Nintendo.
 

MisterMike

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,252
So I was writing up my thoughts and predictions for pass 2 and when I got to Geno, I had a pretty major epiphany that's honestly boosted my thoughts on Geno getting in considerably.

One of the main arguments against Geno I've seen getting thrown around is this idea that Square/Nintendo would throw in other Square franchises/characters first. I mean, it makes sense, Square might just want to throw in someone from Nier, or World Ends With You, or Bravely Default instead right? I was going to mention them as likely possibilities instead of Geno when my brain suddenly thought back to last year and the whole Seven Squares fiasco and stuff clicked into place. Let's look back at the list.
  • Sora
  • Geno
  • Crono
  • Sephiroth
  • Erdrick
  • Luminary
  • Slime
These are all the characters that had been heard being thrown around Nintendo for Square DLC. No 2B, no Neku, no Bravely Default, these are the characters that seemed to be on the table in terms of Smash DLC. Fast Forward to sometime in early-mid 2019 and Pass 2 DLC starts being decided. Are Square and Nintendo going to suddenly say "ok actually, we want to negotiate about all these other characters instead" even though they didn't seem interested less than a year before? I don't think so. Looking at who's left on the list once the DQ stuff is off, we have
  • Sephiroth, who I don't see getting in period, given Square's crazy rationing of Final Fantasy Content and the fact that Cloud was apparently the hardest character to get back anyway. Plus the idea that no third-party franchise has no more than one character that isn't an echo, and I'm throwing Sephiroth out.
  • Crono, who felt more like leakbait for the Dragon Quest stuff anyway, but even if we assume he isn't I don't see him getting in. He's from a franchise that hasn't had a proper game in over 20 years and that Sqaure seems to want nothing to do with, and isn't really highly requested for Smash either, sorry Crono.
  • Sora, who seems to be stuck in licensing hell. He's easily one of the top 5, possibly top 3 most requested characters for Smash, but while I'm not writing him out, I don't see it happening, and I think we would know if he was.
And that leaves us with the G-Man himself, who
  • Has been one of the top requested characters for Smash for the last several years, and has been heavily requested since before Brawl
  • Sakurai has already expressed his interest in making him a fighter
  • He, along with Mallow, are the only other Square characters represented in the game that aren't from Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy got literally NOTHING. His rights are already negotiated.
  • Suspiciously had his Mii Costume, along with Chocobo, not be released with Hero even though every other pack so far has released with 2 returning costumes, and nothing replaced them.
  • Would be among the first characters decided for Pass 2 due to these circumstances, already being negotiated, which explains why, even if the pass wasn't finalized until November, his Mii Costume moved from Hero to some other point in time, and not be replaced.
  • Hell, if Geno was one of the first characters deciced, it also serves to explain certain other things, like the Music Copyrights being taken down as early as May-June and the Mii Costume list having the Mallow and Smithy costumes that far in advance.
So yea, taking all this into account, I'm changing my opinion of Geno from "might happen" to "I think he's actually happening", and if he is, he is coming sooner rather than later. I can honestly see him being 6 at this point, at the latest 8. He's not an E3 level reveal in my eyes but I think he's the perfect character to start the pass off strong.
So no one else has posted the image? I gotta be the one to do it? Okay, then.
OhYeahItsAllComingTogether.gif

Don't say I don't do anything for you guys!

If spirits do deconfirm characters then I am willing to bet that Geno will be the ONLY exception.
Which makes sense, given that they could just use Geno's star form for his Fighter Spirit. I mean, he's already a spirit after all.

So, what is everyone's stance on the CacoMallow leak now?

I am a bit late to the party, but I don't think what was said in that Doom interview about Smash Bros. disconfirms anything, as it is just possibly NDA talk. I'd say Doomguy's, and by extension, Geno's chances of getting in Smash Bros. Ultimate, and the CacoMallow leak being real, are still fine.
It's still in play, and is still as real looking as it's always been. Doomguy not getting in as a fighter doesn't disprove it whatsoever, despite what some would like to think.

There's also the fact that Sakurai outright said that all the packs would come with a stage and spirit board so... A second Final Fantasy VII stage and Final Fantasy VII spirits despite the fact that they didn't even bother doing this in the base game?
Woah, that's actually a very good point!

>Ridley gets revealed in E3 2018
>Banjo gets revealed in E3 2019

Anyone else think Nintendo is going to finally complete the trinity of Never Evers this E3? ( I know it was originally K rool, ridley, and geno as the original trinity, but Banjo also fits). I just realized how much potential Geno truly has for E3 this year.
View attachment 259540
I've been saying that for a while now, and yeah it totally makes a lot of sense. A lot of people like to act like Nintendo or Sakurai are completely tone deaf when it comes to knowing what the fans want, especially with regards to Byleth, but I think nothing could be further from the truth. They obviously hear a lot more than we think they do, and with regards to events like E3, they like to make sure they have some good **** to show. With Smash being their biggest attraction, it'd make sense for their E3 presentation to bring out the big guns, someone who the fans have really wanted for a long time.

And Geno is definitely that someone.
 

Musubi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
154
On a ground level, Sora's kind of a lot of work and the situation really hasn't changed since literally the beginning of Ultimate. I'm not even talking about Disney or copyrights, I'm talking about the fact that Square has like zero interest in bringing any of the games to the Switch when the Switch is a port monster. Square has just kind of shrugged its shoulders at making any real efforts for even simple ports of the first games. Nevermind anything else I could argue, this speaks volumes to me.
Fatmanonice Fatmanonice I wanted to say why I think the Kingdom Hearts games probably haven't been ported to the Switch yet. First, I'm not sure how long it takes to port a game to a new console, but I'm sure it can be a project that takes multiple years to do, especially when you're porting a collection of many games like the 1.5 + 2.5 Remixes and the KH 2.8 collection. Plus add in the fact that they would probably want to release both of these ports together, and make sure they work in handheld mode, means that this project possibly could have had to have started many years before release, depending on team size.

Next, I'm not sure what team at Square Enix would be in charge of the development of the ports. If the KH team is who would be making the ports, that team has had their hands full for the past couple of years. They've had to make KH3, KH3 DLC, part of the KH Union Cross mobile game, and the port of the collections to Xbox One. Also, they recently announced that the team has also been working on a new mobile game that I think is releasing this Spring, and they've also already started working on the next console game in the series.

Speaking of the ports coming to Xbox One, they've known that KH3 has been in development for that console since probably around 2013-2014. It was probably some amount of priority that they get the ports to Xbox eventually, and the fact that they aren't releasing until sometime this year (I think) shows that this port process probably takes a long time. If they had limited resources, it makes sense that they would prioritize the ports for the console that would have KH3 and not the Switch.

Now if a team at Square handles ports for all Square games, not to mention that this team could possibly be divided into sub-teams by console, they've had a lot of Square ports to the Switch that were probably higher priority than KH. Think about all the Final Fantasy ports we got, as well as the Trials of Mana.

So anyways, the fact that Kingdom Hearts hasn't received ports on the Switch yet isn't something that I think should really be considered when talking about Sora's chances for Smash. I think it was just situation and backed by financial reasons why it hasn't been a priority compared to other ports. The Switch probably isn't powerful enough for KH3 so it makes sense that ports weren't be a focus for the company. I don't think it's as if Square doesn't want the KH ports on the Switch. I could really see it as a project that is currently in development, but may not come out anytime soon.
 
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Organization XIII

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
2,083
Hopefully with Byleth teasing the idea of another sword character, this means that this will be the end of sword characters in Smash Bros. We need more guns in this game.

Glad to hear you got your dream pick. We appreciate your support for our guy!
Yeah, I'm going to disagree with both points in this statement. The problem was never sword characters in general and probably never will be. There are still plenty of sword characters we need on the roster. All with unique movesets they can provide and plenty of fan demand to back them up. Characters such as Isaac, Dante, Llyod, Sora. No, the problem was actually an overrepresentation of FE which won't stop, and an outright refusal to bring an FE character who either isn't the main character in favor of more interesting plot significant characters or FE characters from older games people actually wanted to see like Lyn which Byleth shows won't be happening anytime soon either.
And as this being a possibility of them pointing to stopping that's also not going to happen. In that stream alone they acknowledged all the problems people had and still did it anyway which means they were aware and didn't care. In fact, even before the presentation, Sakurai has mentioned an abundance of sword characters and overrepresenting FE and yet Ultimate has added plenty in those areas. Sakurai mentioning a problem doesn't mean he's ever going to fix it especially when it comes to his own personal favorites.
 

LipeCau

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
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Yeah, I'm going to disagree with both points in this statement. The problem was never sword characters in general and probably never will be. There are still plenty of sword characters we need on the roster. All with unique movesets they can provide and plenty of fan demand to back them up. Characters such as Isaac, Dante, Llyod, Sora. No, the problem was actually an overrepresentation of FE which won't stop, and an outright refusal to bring an FE character who either isn't the main character in favor of more interesting plot significant characters or FE characters from older games people actually wanted to see like Lyn which Byleth shows won't be happening anytime soon either.
And as this being a possibility of them pointing to stopping that's also not going to happen. In that stream alone they acknowledged all the problems people had and still did it anyway which means they were aware and didn't care. In fact, even before the presentation, Sakurai has mentioned an abundance of sword characters and overrepresenting FE and yet Ultimate has added plenty in those areas. Sakurai mentioning a problem doesn't mean he's ever going to fix it especially when it comes to his own personal favorites.
I feel that the "anime sword character" problem is similar to the "not enough girls" problem. It's an industry problem, not Smash or Sakurai's. In fact, the newer sword characters in Smash have so much more in there moveset (apart from the echoes) that complaining about it nowadays is just typical gamer complaint. Now, as for the over represented FE roster, there are many logical and understanding arguments that explains it:
1. As Sakurai stated before, Nintendo picks them, FE is doing amazing since the west learned about it in Melee, it's only natural to keep using smash for it.
2. It is a game with many characters, just as Pokémon, it's an IP that would naturally bring many, compared to Zelda, for example, one of the biggest Nintendo franchise, that has the same characters over and over (oh F-Zero, why does Nintendo hates you?).
3. Sakurai is clearly a fan, he'll favour those Nintendo picks since he said it's his final word.
4. Unlike Pokémon, seems that whoever is in charge of deciding which FE character is used likes to preserve neutrality, picking the main character, which usually means the blandest.

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As for Lyn, she's my favourite fire emblem character and I would love to see her as a character, but since their debut in brawl, the point of the Assist Trophies was to add more character, specially the ones that couldn't make it to the roster. Because of that I don't really believe in assist upgrades (in the same game, obviously).

Obligatory Geno input: Though I don't believe in AT upgrades, Geno is the reason I believe in Spirits upgrade. His inclusion so far is a downgrade and a very weird one.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Fatmanonice Fatmanonice I wanted to say why I think the Kingdom Hearts games probably haven't been ported to the Switch yet. First, I'm not sure how long it takes to port a game to a new console, but I'm sure it can be a project that takes multiple years to do, especially when you're porting a collection of many games like the 1.5 + 2.5 Remixes and the KH 2.8 collection. Plus add in the fact that they would probably want to release both of these ports together, and make sure they work in handheld mode, means that this project possibly could have had to have started many years before release, depending on team size.

Next, I'm not sure what team at Square Enix would be in charge of the development of the ports. If the KH team is who would be making the ports, that team has had their hands full for the past couple of years. They've had to make KH3, KH3 DLC, part of the KH Union Cross mobile game, and the port of the collections to Xbox One. Also, they recently announced that the team has also been working on a new mobile game that I think is releasing this Spring, and they've also already started working on the next console game in the series.

Speaking of the ports coming to Xbox One, they've known that KH3 has been in development for that console since probably around 2013-2014. It was probably some amount of priority that they get the ports to Xbox eventually, and the fact that they aren't releasing until sometime this year (I think) shows that this port process probably takes a long time. If they had limited resources, it makes sense that they would prioritize the ports for the console that would have KH3 and not the Switch.

Now if a team at Square handles ports for all Square games, not to mention that this team could possibly be divided into sub-teams by console, they've had a lot of Square ports to the Switch that were probably higher priority than KH. Think about all the Final Fantasy ports we got, as well as the Trials of Mana.

So anyways, the fact that Kingdom Hearts hasn't received ports on the Switch yet isn't something that I think should really be considered when talking about Sora's chances for Smash. I think it was just situation and backed by financial reasons why it hasn't been a priority compared to other ports. The Switch probably isn't powerful enough for KH3 so it makes sense that ports weren't be a focus for the company. I don't think it's as if Square doesn't want the KH ports on the Switch. I could really see it as a project that is currently in development, but may not come out anytime soon.
well they recent just made 2 more teams for KH but didnt say what those teams were. Just throwing that out there
 
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nessdeltarune00

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It just dawned on me, Nintendo likes associating Waluigi with April Fools Day, and a bait and switch reveal beforehand in January or February featuring Dante(?) and Waluigi, similar to Banjo(?) and Duck Hunt wouldn't be farfetched.
But instead of Dante actually showing up, it's just Waluigi laughing at the audience, followed by a trailer showcasing Waluigi's moves and abilities, and ending with a teaser similar to Terry featuring the actual Dante.
Dante's teaser at the end of Waluigi's trailer builds up hype, and gives fans an incentive to buy Fighters Pass 2 if the Wah wasn't to their liking.

Waluigi is slated to release on April

This leads us to E3 2020, the presentation starts and Dante's full CGI trailer is shown in all its glory, fast-forward to the end of Nintendo's E3 2020 presentation, we are treated to Geno's reveal trailer a-la Banjo.

Dante is released after the E3 2020 presentation immediately, while Geno is slated for release on August.

Leaving us with just Lloyd, #10, and #11.
Its already been stated fighters have to come with a stage, music, and Spirit board.

You are shooting for the moon if you are expecting Waluigi at this point.
 

Fatmanonice

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Sword characters really aren't a problem. People are just tired of FIRE EMBLEM sword characters. This is why characters like Dante, Lloyd, and Sora are still heavily wanted. People are just dying for variety. Again, Byleth is a cool addition but people are salty because he checks so many boxes that have been beaten to death in Smash. Fire Emblem? Yep. Self insert avatar? Yep. Blue hair? Yep. Used to promote a recently released game? Yep. MonkeyDLenny MonkeyDLenny nailed it in his Twitter essay. Byleth would have been hype AF if he didn't tick so many boxes that were already getting stale 5 years ago.
 
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M00NFIRE94

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Sword characters really aren't a problem. People are just tired of FIRE EMBLEM sword characters. This is why characters like Dante, Lloyd, and Sora are still heavily wanted. People are just dying for variety. Again, Byleth is a cool addition but people are salty because he checks so many boxes that have been beaten to death in Smash. Fire Emblem? Yep. Self insert avatar? Yep. Blue hair? Yep. Used to promote a recently released game? Yep. MonkeyDLenny MonkeyDLenny nailed it in his Twitter essay. Byleth would have been hype AF if he didn't tick so many boxes that were already getting stale 5 years ago.
It wouldn't have hurt just this once to not use the main character at least and gone with somebody like Rhea or Sothis from the game. I'd suggest someone from one of the three houses but I guess that would be telling someone the other two are lame.

Or, if we're talking marketing, should've promoted Tokyo Mirage Sessions instead. It's partly a Fire Emblem game and people that played it on the Wii U have been wanting to see a rep (specifically Tsubasa) for 5 years. To have a requested fighter while simultaneously promoting it's Switch rerelease would've at least made the best of both worlds between fans wanting something original and Sakurai getting another FE in there.
 

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One thing that I like how we keep going over is that most of the really "big" characters in speculation right now are "never evers." It doesn't need to be said that Geno's definitely a never ever but the fanbase is kind of converging on this point that, if these really are the final 6 to 7 characters for Ultimate, there's going to be several that pop up. Looking at people's lists, the same names keep coming up and people largely agree on the same characters that would knock the Smash fanbase on its ass. Geno's definitely one of them, even if he isn't on everyone's list. Even Sakurai has commented on how it blows him away that Geno gets so much demand after all these years. Some of you were literally not even born yet when Super Smash Brothers first launched in 1999 and Geno demand is just as old. Even on my end, I've been at this on this site since 2006. About 13 1/2 years! For the American public school system, that's K-12! Again, I think people sleep on how significant that is. Some of you didn't even exist or were in diapers when characters like Crash and Geno started being seriously pushed for Smash.
 

Fatmanonice

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I'm glad people agree that Geno would be a great E3 reveal but I have no idea how the **** E3 this year will work for Smash. We're so used to at least double reveals at E3 because it's literally been like this since 2013 if Smash is at all present. This then begs the question for me of what the time table for announcements and releases is. If we get a double announcement for E3, those will likely both be 2020 releases. That said, would they even bother announcing someone in the fall Direct and just wait until 2021? That's a HUGE gap. Granted, it was about 6 months between Wii Fit and Rosalina for Smash 4 and almost 7 between Joker and Hero so I guess this could happen... 9 gets announced early 2021 and 10 and 11 are E3 2021 announcements? I guess that could work but the Smash fanbase would probably go feral by then...
 

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I'm glad people agree that Geno would be a great E3 reveal but I have no idea how the **** E3 this year will work for Smash. We're so used to at least double reveals at E3 because it's literally been like this since 2013 if Smash is at all present. This then begs the question for me of what the time table for announcements and releases is. If we get a double announcement for E3, those will likely both be 2020 releases. That said, would they even bother announcing someone in the fall Direct and just wait until 2021? That's a HUGE gap. Granted, it was about 6 months between Wii Fit and Rosalina for Smash 4 and almost 7 between Joker and Hero so I guess this could happen... 9 gets announced early 2021 and 10 and 11 are E3 2021 announcements? I guess that could work but the Smash fanbase would probably go feral by then...
Dec 2021 does seem to be a placeholder end-date. Double E3 reveals are probably back on the table.
 

nessdeltarune00

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My current theory based on past precedent and Power of Six:

1 Nintendo (all DLC seasons have had at least one Nintendo character)

1 Capcom (Power of Six, Capcom is being less than subtle about Dante)

1 Namco (Power of Six, STILL no second rep despite making the last two Smash games)

1 Square (Power of Six, except Namco, all the "BIG" Japanese companies involved since at least Smash 4 have three reps)

At least one Western (Banjo is right now the only true Western character, there's no way in hell that's staying)

At least one new company to Smash (pretty much a given. Smash 4 DLC had Square and Ultimate had Microsoft and SNK)

Those are my basic thoughts.
1. Crash Bandicoot
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. Dante
4. Lloyd Irving/Heihachi
5. 2B/Sora
6. Sol Badguy

Would this fit the theory? I’ll swap one for a Nintendo character if there is a missing Spirit event in the future.
 
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xpnc

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1. Crash Bandicoot
2. Ryu Hayabusa
3. Dante
4. Lloyd Irving/Heihachi
5. 2B/Sora
6. Sol Badguy

Would this fit the theory? I’ll swap one for a Nintendo character if there is a missing Spirit event in the future.
This is the Geno thread
 
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