Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TriggerX]

I Had no idea waluigi was even wanted or popular. Never even heard of a waluigi meme either. He doesn’t even seem that highly requested since he rarely shows up on any character polls compared to the likes of Geno or K Rool.

At least someone like Geno has been consistent in most unofficial polls, whereas characters like Waluigi and even Doomslayer really only started to spring up because leakers started mentioning them.

Assist trophies seem to disconfirm based off of what we’ve seen so far. I mean there was the whole mewtwo trophy thing that happened, but I believe they only got upgraded because Nintendo is lazier than some want to admit. Had a trophy of a character that hasn’t been playable before been upgraded, I’d be more inclined to believe that they don’t disconfirm. However Mewtwo and Lucas were upgraded cuz they could make money off of it with less work from a unique character.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Good luck scraping for any Mario enemy that isn’t a Spirit for his board.

And also, we have a ton of music for Mario spin offs (including Mario Tennis Aces) already, one being Waluigis theme itself.

Finally, he not only has both an AT and Spirit of himself, but he has multiple iterations of his Spirit on top of all of this. This also traces back to the first point, it will be really tough to make a Spirit Board with all of this into consideration, lol.

We can argue about Geno all you want, but Sakurai really seems deadset on not making Waluigi playable.

Regarding spirits, he mentioned the human characters Camelot also made, and there actually are general Mario enemies they could still use such as Dry Bones, Pokey, Ninji and Fuzzy. There are also variations of Waluigi himself they could still use if they want to be funny; if I’m correct, they only have Waluigi himself, his Strikers artwork, and Mario Kart’s Standard Bike with him riding it.

He may not seem likely, but just because others see it differently, you don’t gotta sound like you’re up on a high-horse as if people are crazy and bad for thinking he has a good shot.

 

[Organization XIII]

I Had no idea waluigi was even wanted or popular. Never even heard of a waluigi meme eithere doesn’t even seem that highly requested since he rarely shows up on any character polls compared to the likes of Geno or K Rool.

At least someone like Geno has been consistent in most unofficial polls, whereas characters like Waluigi and even Doomslayer really only started to spring up because leakers started mentioning them.

Waluigi has just been an AT for a while. And since there's a made-up fan rule that ATs are deconfirmed the people holding polls usually cut them out. That's why you can see a character like Isaac was destroying popularity polls left and right and then after his reveal as an AT he stopped showing up. ATs house some very demanded characters but it's way different from Doom Guy who people started thinking was coming solely due to rumors.

Good luck scraping for any Mario enemy that isn’t a Spirit for his board. Finally, he not only has both an AT and Spirit, but he has multiple iterations of himself as Spirits on top of all of this.

So if a character can have multiple spirits on base what's to stop Sakurai and the team from giving him another artwork as his spirit and alternate spirits for his spirit board? Not saying they will go this route but there's plenty of options around the issue if they want to bring him.

 

[MattX20]

Good luck scraping for any Mario enemy that isn’t a Spirit for his board.

And also, we have a ton of music for Mario spin offs (including Mario Tennis Aces) already, one being Waluigis theme itself.

Finally, he not only has both an AT and Spirit, but he has multiple iterations of himself as Spirits on top of all of this. This also traces back to the first point, it will be really tough to make a Spirit Board with all of this into consideration, lol.

We can argue about Geno all you want, but Sakurai really seems deadset on not making Waluigi playable.

There are several Mario RPG exclusive characters that could be given the Spirit treatment like Croco, Boshi, the Axem Rangers, Smithy etc. They're not short on potential spirit board material for Geno, when compared to Waluigi where I can barely think of anything for him. The same is also true for a Sword and Shield rep; frankly I think the four spirits would likely have been part of the spirit board for that.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Waluigi has just been an AT for a while. And since there's a made-up fan rule that ATs are deconfirmed the people holding polls usually cut them out. That's why you can see a character like Isaac was destroying popularity polls left and right and then after his reveal as an AT he stopped showing up. ATs house some very demanded characters but it's way different from Doom Guy who people started thinking was coming solely due to rumors.


So if a character can have multiple spirits on base what's to stop Sakurai and the team from giving him another artwork as his spirit and alternate spirits for his spirit board? Not saying they will go this route but there's plenty of options around the issue if they want to bring him.

Every single argument I have seen so far not just for Waluigi, but promotions in general all hinges on “BUT SAKURAI COULD!!!!” and not anything that could point to it actually happening. (Already laid out my reasons why I believe there won’t be any promotions yesterday)

This is absolutely no different.

 

[Organization XIII]

Every single argument I have seen so far not just for Waluigi, but promotions in general all hinges on “BUT SAKURAI COULD!!!!” and not anything that could point to it actually happening. (Already laid out my reasons why I believe there won’t be any promotions yesterday)

This is absolutely no different.

Well, see they kind of have to hinge on could seeing as no one can see the future. But if you want we've seen AT promotions in the past. Te stupid mantra of "only between games" makes no difference. Also, we have characters who serve multiple roles on the roster already. Furthermore if he even gives us one fan request again like the first pass an upgrade of some kind is imminent whether AT or spirit who can say. So we have no reason to believe he won't do it so I don't know what more you need. We know he's done similar things in the past so now the only thing to do is wait and see. And so we stick firmly in the COULD category until Sakurai says something about AT promotions, it happens, or the DLC is over.

 

[TX-55]

Good luck scraping for any Mario enemy that isn’t a Spirit for his board.

And also, we have a ton of music for Mario spin offs (including Mario Tennis Aces) already, one being Waluigis theme itself.

Finally, he not only has both an AT and Spirit, but he has multiple iterations of himself as Spirits on top of all of this. This also traces back to the first point, it will be really tough to make a Spirit Board with all of this into consideration, lol.

We can argue about Geno all you want, but Sakurai really seems deadset on not making Waluigi playable.

Well, we're only speculating. But tbh, I'm a bit surprised that after all of what we've witnessed from Smash 4 to Ultimate in the last 5 years, some people are deadset on believing there are secret rules that Sakurai must abide by, or else nothing makes sense.

There's plenty of Mario characters from the spin-off games not represented as spirits in Ultimate, like the Millennium Star or Tumble from Mario Party 3.

And no, we don't really have that many Mario spin-off tracks compared to the main series.
Waluigi has an old Brawl remix, but so did Ridley and K.Rool.
And Mario Tennis Aces has a measly 2 tracks, the Mario Tennis series isn't that well represented in soundtrack department.

Spirits aren't a roadblock, they're a way of representing as much characters and games as possible. Same as trophies in past games.

Getting 8 different spirits for a board isn't as difficult as you make it out to be, and the AT actually benefits Waluigi, he already has a model to be based of.
Not to mention, his AT is ancient, it's originally ported from Brawl, no development time and resources wasted, it wasn't made from scratch like Alucard or Bomberman.

I can go on, but I think you get the idea (I hope).
This is a Geno thread, and I don't want to stray too far off course, so let's end it here.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Every single argument I have seen so far not just for Waluigi, but promotions in general all hinges on “BUT SAKURAI COULD!!!!” and not anything that could point to it actually happening. (Already laid out my reasons why I believe there won’t be any promotions yesterday)

This is absolutely no different.

This makes me feel even more ignored in Newcomer Speculation.

Seriously, though, even when I directly quote a single person discussing Spirits and how likely they are, it’s like I don’t exist to everyone arguing about it. I try and base my points off of what Sakurai has said/done in the past, but no one replies to them, and I don’t know if they’re passing them off as reaches/hypotheticals (when their points are just as hypothetical) or grouping me with people who only say “fan rule.”

 

[RingJ5]

Every single argument I have seen so far not just for Waluigi, but promotions in general all hinges on “BUT SAKURAI COULD!!!!” and not anything that could point to it actually happening. (Already laid out my reasons why I believe there won’t be any promotions yesterday)

This is absolutely no different.

What about all the Geno Mii Costume stuff? Even disregarding all the leaks and rumors regarding it, you don’t see anything even slightly suspicious going on there? I’m not quite sure about playable Waluigi at this point, but a Spirit promotion in that sense seems quite likely, unless you’re legitimately under the impression that they’re holding back the costume for over a year specifically so that it would arrive with a different Square DLC rep instead of just throwing it in with Hero and being done with it.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Well, see they kind of have to hinge on could seeing as no one can see the future. But if you want we've seen AT promotions in the past. Te stupid mantra of "only between games" makes no difference. Also, we have characters who serve multiple roles on the roster already. Furthermore if he even gives us one fan request again like the first pass an upgrade of some kind is imminent whether AT or spirit who can say. So we have no reason to believe he won't do it so I don't know what more you need. We know he's done similar things in the past so now the only thing to do is wait and see. And so we stick firmly in the COULD category until Sakurai says something about AT promotions, it happens, or the DLC is over.

Umm, there is actually a HUGE difference when it happens between games.

There is a reason why ATs and Spirits exist. In my eyes, and also taking the evidence into consideration, they are for characters who likely have no plans on being playable for that game. That is why Spirits and Assists are there in the first place.

Isabelle was given an Assist and Mii Costume in 4 because they didn’t have plans on her being playable during that cycle. Same thing goes to all of the other current ones as well.

Also, I wouldn’t get your expectations sky high for promotions until you can present stuff that actually points to it happening, not just on hypothetical scenarios.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Umm, there is actually a HUGE difference when it happens between games.

There is a reason why ATs and Spirits exist. In my eyes, and also taking the evidence into consideration, they are for characters who likely have no plans on being playable for that game. That is why Spirits and Assists are there in the first place.

Isabelle was given an Assist and Mii Costume in 4 because they didn’t have plans on her being playable during that cycle. Same thing goes to all of the other current ones as well.

Also, I wouldn’t get your expectations sky high for promotions until you can present stuff that actually points to it happening, not just on hypothetical scenarios.

I don’t understand why this is used as a point against promotions. Trophies were also a way to represent characters they didn’t plan on making playable, but Sakurai changed his mind with Mewtwo and Lucas regardless. The same could easily happen to basegame spirits and ATs, since they were chosen before Season 2 was planned. It doesn’t mean we’re gonna get a bunch, but Sakurai could certainly choose one or two, especially ones he’s considered as playable before like Geno.

And it’s hard to not say “could” even when basing things off of stuff he’s said/done when not wanting to make definitive statements as if I know for-sure what he’s gonna do, like I’m in his head or I’m his right-hand man.

 

[pinshadow]

Every single argument I have seen so far not just for Waluigi, but promotions in general all hinges on “BUT SAKURAI COULD!!!!” and not anything that could point to it actually happening. (Already laid out my reasons why I believe there won’t be any promotions yesterday)

This is absolutely no different.

Ok, this is more of a general point I've wanted to make for the last couple of days, but it applies to your post so I'm just throwing it here now.

Sakurai is not making the decisions on DLC. Nintendo IS. This is not an assumption, or a mistranslation of something, he straight up tweeted it himself, IN ENGLISH, " This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan." I don't understand why people still keep acting like Sakurai is the one deciding the roster, this seems to make it pretty clear that he's really only deciding if a character could actually be made into a proper moveset.

But aren't all the choices Sakurai picks? Let's actually look at them again.

• Joker? Atlus has a good relationship with Nintendo, SMT V was one of the first games announce for Switch and they even worked on Tokyo Mirage Sessions with them. Joker was picked because Persona 5 was widely successful and it was their most recent big release, makes sense.
• Hero? Nintendo is pushing Dragon Quest super hard and even published Dragon Quest XI S outside of Japan, of course Nintendo and Square would want to have Dragon Quest in smash to promote that.
• Banjo? Huge fan pick, Nintendo straight up went to Microsoft, one of their main competitors, to ask for them. Sakurai made it clear he was weary about working with Western developers, and it's clear Nintendo bridged that gap.
• Terry? Yea, Sakurai is an SNK Nut, but at the same time SNK is on a pretty big comeback streak right now and is showing up in EVERYTHING. Fighting EX Layer, Tekken, Soul Calibur, them negotiating to get in Smash just makes sense, especially given that both of the later were also developed by Namco.
• Byleth? Speaks for itself really. Nintendo just really, REALLY wants to push Fire Emblem as an A-Tier franchise, and probably wanted a promotional pick in as well, and Byleth makes the most sense I suppose.

Whether or not Sakurai likes a character or not is not the be all, end all of Smash speculation. Banjo is honestly proof enough in my eyes that Nintendo isn't deaf when it comes to Smash speculation, they chose Banjo when other characters like Steve or Master Chief were most likely on the table. I'm not expecting the entire pass to be fan-picks obviously, but they seem to understand what the people want.

I don't even expect Waluigi to show up, I actually agree with your points on him. But do I think it's atleast plausible that Nintendo could have chosen to add Waluigi after the massive uproar around him? Or for them to choose to add any other characters who are Spirits like Geno? Yes, and I highly doubt Sakurai would just say "oh no we can't add that character, they are already in as a Spirit/Assist trophy". That would be silly.

And yes, COULD. It's speculation, and acting like anything that hasn't come out of Sakurai or Nintendo mouth themselves is set in stone is just asking to get blown out. I'm not mad you think Spirit's aern't getting in, you could easily be right about it, but I'm just annoyed you keep acting like it's this inevitability.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

What about all the Geno Mii Costume stuff? Even disregarding all the leaks and rumors regarding it, you don’t see anything even slightly suspicious going on there? I’m not quite sure about playable Waluigi at this point, but a Spirit promotion in that sense seems quite likely, unless you’re legitimately under the impression that they’re holding back the costume for over a year specifically so that it would arrive with a different Square DLC rep instead of just throwing it in with Hero and being done with it.

The Chocobo hat didn’t come back either.

Just saying.

 

[Organization XIII]

Umm, there is actually a HUGE difference when it happens between games.

There is a reason why ATs and Spirits exist. In my eyes, and also taking the evidence into consideration, they are for characters who likely have no plans on being playable for that game. That is why Spirits and Assists are there in the first place.

Isabelle was given an Assist and Mii Costume in 4 because they didn’t have plans on her being playable during that cycle. Same thing goes to all of the other current ones as well.

Also, I wouldn’t get your expectations sky high for promotions until you can present stuff that actually points to it happening, not just on hypothetical scenarios.

There really isn't. We haven't had a lot of DLC cycles to use as a comparison. As it stands this current cycle of DLC was decided well after the base game was decided and every time Sakurai has had a chance to reevaluate characters playable status we get an AT promoted. My expectations are 100% we will see some upgrades unless some evidence that points against it happens.

 

[OffBi]

The Chocobo hat didn’t come back either.

Just saying.

It will come back with geno what not to understand here?!

 

[nessdeltarune00]

There really isn't. We haven't had a lot of DLC cycles to use as a comparison. As it stands this current cycle of DLC was decided well after the base game was decided and every time Sakurai has had a chance to reevaluate characters playable status we get an AT promoted. My expectations are 100% we will see some upgrades unless some evidence that points against it happens.

I already laid out potential evidence for that yesterday, lol.

 

[RingJ5]

The Chocobo hat didn’t come back either.

Just saying.

...And you don’t think that the fandom would absolutely ****ing explode even further if it did come back without the Geno costume, especially in light of every other DLC having exactly two returning costumes?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I see things are locked on Waluigi so to try talk things related to Geno, I think most of the fanbase agrees that there's going to be at least one promotion, whether it's an AT, spirit, or costume. People hotly debate who the most likely would be in each category but the same names repeatedly come up. Kind of surprised that nobody has done a major poll on this yet but it's probably no small exaggeration that we could reasonably boil each category to 4-5 characters, with some like Geno obviously having overlap in two categories.

Add in: EB Games just leaked that Street Fighter 5 is coming to Switch. God piss boiling damnit! When is this Direct happening?!?

 

[nessdeltarune00]

It will come back with geno what not to understand here?!

>”will”

If missing Mii Costumes mean anything, both Chocobo and Geno could still come back with potentially 2B or Sora.

Geno isn’t the only Square rep there is, lol.

 

[TriggerX]

Umm, there is actually a HUGE difference when it happens between games.

There is a reason why ATs and Spirits exist. In my eyes, and also taking the evidence into consideration, they are for characters who likely have no plans on being playable for that game. That is why Spirits and Assists are there in the first place.

Isabelle was given an Assist and Mii Costume in 4 because they didn’t have plans on her being playable during that cycle. Same thing goes to all of the other current ones as well.

Also, I wouldn’t get your expectations sky high for promotions until you can present stuff that actually points to it happening, not just on hypothetical scenarios.

Really I think it all just depends on how far they thought in advance.

If the 2nd wave of dlc was already “Fully” considered during development of the first, I would say yes it’s unlikely we’ll receive a promotion of any kind unless it’s Geno.

However, I don’t think this fan rule is as iron clad as you think it is. One thing to consider is that the majority of Nintendo properties seem to be included as stickers and ATs, so if development has exceeded past what they had initially planned for dlc, chances are someone is going to get an upgrade.
And personally given some of the decisions Nintendo has made in the past in this game, I would predict the upgrade be given to an AT since the model would already be there.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Really I think it all just depends on how far they thought in advance.

If the 2nd wave of dlc was already “Fully” considered during development of the first, I would say yes it’s unlikely we’ll receive a promotion of any kind unless it’s Geno.

However, I don’t think this fan rule is as iron clad as you think it is. One thing to consider is that the majority of Nintendo properties seem to be included as stickers and ATs, so if development has exceeded past what they had initially planned for dlc, chances are someone is going to get an upgrade.
And personally given some of the decisions Nintendo has made in the past in this game, I would predict the upgrade be given to an AT since the model would already be there.

Using the fanrule strawman again?

Just going to leave this here.

I'm just going to say this one more time.

Please, for the love of god, stop labeling everything in speculation as a "fan rule".

It may depend on who is saying it and how it's being articulated, but I have not once said that "Spirits disconfirm" is a "fan rule". It is a conclusion I have come to based on what I've seen as evidence from precedent. It is literally the definition of an informed opinion or speculation...otherwise known as what this forum was made for.

If you want to just cast things you don't agree with as a "fan rule" then go ahead and continue to do so. But it really has gotten old fast, because it just seems as though that's how it's being used. I don't think anybody here seriously thinks it's a rule that has to guide all of speculation.

If you ask me, it shouldn't be ignored or totally believed. I could just as easily say, "Popularity gets a character in? Fan rule! We get characters that aren't the definition of popular all the time!"

You want to talk about shutting down conversation? "Fan rule!" will do it.

 

[Organization XIII]

I already laid out potential evidence for that yesterday, lol.

You're "evidence" is pretty lackluster. Which is why I don't see any real thing going against a promotion. As it stands we usually get a fan pick and with all the big names being spirits or ATs the most likely occurrence is a promotion. Now I don't know if it'll be Geno, or Isaac, or Waluigi, or even someone a little smaller like Dee but for now, one of those is most likely coming. And if we are lucky then Sakurai will put a bit more stock into fan wants and more than one of those names. Until then there's nothing saying those characters likely aren't happening.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Using the fanrule strawman again?

Just going to leave this here.

Yet even when someone doesn’t say “fan rule!” and has tried using other potential evidence, they get ignored.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Yet even when someone doesn’t say “fan rule!” and has tried using other potential evidence, they get ignored.

Link me the evidence then.

Because all of the “evidence” I have seen so far is based purely on hypothetical scenarios.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Link me the evidence then.

Because all of the “evidence” I have seen so far is based purely on hypothetical scenarios.

I would feel my posts in Newcomer Speculation are just as hypothetical as “Spirits Disconfirm”:

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-2102#post-23804722
https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-2113#post-23806814

But eh, whatever; even if I think I have good stuff to base my points off of regarding characters’ chances or potential and what Sakurai has said/done, or why they should be just as good of a choice as some others, someone’s gonna dismiss them as “reaching” or simply ignore them anyway...

 

[Icewolff92]

I don’t understand why this is used as a point against promotions. Trophies were also a way to represent characters they didn’t plan on making playable, but Sakurai changed his mind with Mewtwo and Lucas regardless. The same could easily happen to basegame spirits and ATs, since they were chosen before Season 2 was planned. It doesn’t mean we’re gonna get a bunch, but Sakurai could certainly choose one or two, especially ones he’s considered as playable before like Geno.

Even though I doubt any ATs will be promoted, but think there is still stuff that you can pull IF they want to upgrade, Waluigi, I disagree that Mewtwo and Lucas is the same scenario as him. Upgrading Geno, would Geno be a fighter is more similar to that

 

[RingJ5]

>”will”

If missing Mii Costumes mean anything, both Chocobo and Geno could still come back with potentially 2B or Sora.

Geno isn’t the only Square rep there is, lol.

Then why didn’t they return with Hero? Every other wave 1 Mii Costume set had exactly two returning costumes. Square had exactly two returning costumes to choose from.

So by that logic, either they had no initial plans to even bring the costume back in the first place, or they did but then randomly decided to delay it over a year to arrive with the second Square rep for no particular reason. Even a scenario where they’re waiting a full year to “upgrade him to a premium costume” doesn’t add up, as we know from Sakurai’s own comments about filming the Hero and Banjo presentations extremely close to each other that they would already be working on Sans at the exact same time, so they’d have the concept down.

You legitimately don’t see anything even remotely strange about any of that?

 

[nessdeltarune00]

You're "evidence" is pretty lackluster. Which is why I don't see any real thing going against a promotion. As it stands we usually get a fan pick and with all the big names being spirits or ATs the most likely occurrence is a promotion. Now I don't know if it'll be Geno, or Isaac, or Waluigi, or even someone a little smaller like Dee but for now, one of those is most likely coming. And if we are lucky then Sakurai will put a bit more stock into fan wants and more than one of those names. Until then there's nothing saying those characters likely aren't happening.

Nice, but you didn’t actually respond to any of the points that I made. Instead you just slapped a label on it and called it a day.

News flash though, plugging your ears and pretending all of it means nothing doesn’t mean that it suddenly will vanish.

Also, there are a ton of picks who aren’t Spirits or ATs who would blow up the internet. Just saying.

 

[Fatmanonice]

A "fan rule" is simply an assumption based on conjecture. It's an educated guess. Yes, logically speaking, things like spirit promotions aren't super likely but it's something that only needs to happen once to demolish the premise that it can't happen. In the scope of Smash speculation history, a lot of "fan rules" have fallen by the wayside. No third parties. No realistic characters. No guns. No more than one rep per third party. No characters whose main game wasn't on a Nintendo platform. No avatars. No generic enemies. No one from a competitor. There's a lot of examples of things that once seemed impossible but eventually happened. If you had told me that Snake was coming to Smash in 2005, Cloud in 2014 or Joker in 2017, I probably would have punched you in the face.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Even though I doubt any ATs will be promoted, but there is still stuff that you can pull IF they want to upgrade, I disagree that Mewtwo and Lucas is the same scenario as Waluigi. upgrading Geno is more similar to that

I guess upgrading an AT wouldn’t be quite the same, though if Sakurai considered one as playable before it could be similar, or if he or Nintendo just decided to make one playable in response to fans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then why didn’t they return with Hero? Every other wave 1 Mii Costume set had exactly two returning costumes. Square had exactly two returning costumes to choose from.

So by that logic, either they had no initial plans to even bring the costume back in the first place, or they did but then randomly decided to delay it over a year to arrive with the second Square rep for no particular reason. Even a scenario where they’re waiting a full year to “upgrade him to a premium costume” doesn’t add up, as we know from Sakurai’s own comments about filming the Hero and Banjo presentations extremely close to each other that they would already be working on Sans at the exact same time, so they’d have the concept down.

You legitimately don’t see anything even remotely strange about any of that?

As noted many times before, Hero was purely Dragon Quest-focused. It made tons of sense to not include those two costumes with that character. Yes, it's a catch 22 in a way, but there's no denying how much focus it has. Let's also remember that they were trying hard to push DQ in the West more than ever. Anything non-DQ goes contradictory to that philosophy.

Now the fact they're still missing is way more questionable. Chocobo would likely come with a SE character(or Sora, who is close enough) too, but Geno is actually someone we know Sakurai wants playable. Of course, as you said, it's possible the costumes were indeed scrapped. But I don't think the Hero points holds a lot of water in context. The fact the Geno one(which unlike Chocobo is believable as a playable character) is missing is suspicious, agreed.

So time will tell. I certainly hope if he's not playable, the costume wasn't scrapped too, that said. Even a deluxe costume would be neat(though playable is preferred).

 

[Icewolff92]

I guess upgrading an AT wouldn’t be quite the same, though if Sakurai considered one as playable before it could be similar, or if he or Nintendo just decided to make one playable in response to fans.

Sure, Sakurai and Nintendo could decide to upgrade an Assist Trophy, but quite frankly. Why? Well, if you thought Byleth caused some drama for their inclusion, an Assist Trophy upgrade (especially Waluigi concidering his status in the community), the reaction will be filled with "WHY THE F#%#¤&%# DID YOU UPGRADE X BUT NOT Y..." (and that is to be kind).

Granted, I could be wrong, but I wouldn¨t be so sure about him being uppgraded like everyone else seem to be about it here.

Also... direct incomming? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ8shVbv0gk&feature=youtu.be

 

[Organization XIII]

Nice, but you didn’t actually respond to any of the points that I made. Instead you just slapped a label on it and called it a day.

News flash though, plugging your ears and pretending all of it means nothing doesn’t mean that it suddenly will vanish.

Also, there are a ton of picks who aren’t Spirits or ATs who would blow up the internet. Just saying.

I didn't because the crux of your arguments seem to lie on FE not having a spirit event. Which granted I agree that a spirit event does seem to show that there's not going to be DLC but there's been no Waluigi spirit events, there's been no SMRPG spirit events. There's nothing to suggest a new round of DLC decided now won't be promoting. And as for internet breaking requests that's not what I said. I said fan requests of which there are approximately 0 not already in the game.

 

[Icewolff92]

Waluigi spirit events, there's been no SMRPG spirit events.

There is a big difference between Waluigi spirit event and SMRPG event though

 

[TriggerX]

Using the fanrule strawman again?

Just going to leave this here.

Cant say I understand how a post like this is constructive. Instead of crying about a “term” most can understand, actually use your post to push your point.

There isn’t anything that even confirms whether or not characters can be promoted so it’s a pointless argument to even try and make.

Most of us in this thread are aware of established patterns when it comes to the roster. However patterns aren’t always consistent, which we’ve seen in this pass alone.

Sakurai himself is familiar with a character like Geno, it’s certainly possible that his inclusion on the roster is tied to his lore.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sure, Sakurai and Nintendo could decide to upgrade an Assist Trophy, but quite frankly. Why? Well, if you thought Byleth caused some drama for their inclusion, an Assist Trophy upgrade (especially Waluigi concidering his status in the community), the reaction will be filled with "WHY THE F#%#¤&%# DID YOU UPGRADE X BUT NOT Y..." (and that is to be kind).

Granted, I could be wrong, but I wouldn¨t be so sure about it like everyone else seem to be about it here.

Also... direct incomming? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ8shVbv0gk&feature=youtu.be

True, mainly I was just considering that although they weren’t planned to be playable initially, Sakurai or Nintendo could keep them in mind later on when new plans are made.

I’m not really sure about Waluigi, either, even if I put him in my prediction list, though I would like him. Considering the “AT Alliance” thing people did, I would be disappointed seeing people throw major backlash instead of considering it a win for ATs in general. Not all characters can get in, after all, and at least one AT promotion would demolish “ATs 100% disconfirm,” even if they would still not be likely.

And I hope that really does mean we’re getting a Direct soon instead of Nintendo showing it off on Twitter.

 

[Droodle]

This whole timeline reminds me of when DLC was first confirmed and everyone acted like they were 90% sure of what kinds of characters will come.

It'll be the same this time, I bet. A ton of people are acting like characters like Dante, Master Chief, Crash, Geno are almost guaranteed to be in at this point. Sakurai hates being predictable and no one managed to really "predict" the original fighters pass. In fact, a ton of the same theories as last time are being passed around such as the FP only being fan-favorite characters, which ended up being false.

I'm just going to say that chances are we will only end up getting 2-3 fan-favorites that get discussed frequently. The other 3 characters will be ones that aren't commonly discussed, but make sense in the grand scheme of things (like Terry).

 

[RingJ5]

As noted many times before, Hero was purely Dragon Quest-focused. It made tons of sense to not include those two costumes with that character. Yes, it's a catch 22 in a way, but there's no denying how much focus it has. Let's also remember that they were trying hard to push DQ in the West more than ever. Anything non-DQ goes contradictory to that philosophy.

Now the fact they're still missing is way more questionable. Chocobo would likely come with a SE character(or Sora, who is close enough) too, but Geno is actually someone we know Sakurai wants playable. Of course, as you said, it's possible the costumes were indeed scrapped. But I don't think the Hero points holds a lot of water in context. The fact the Geno one(which unlike Chocobo is believable as a playable character) is missing is suspicious, agreed.

So time will tell. I certainly hope if he's not playable, the costume wasn't scrapped too, that said. Even a deluxe costume would be neat(though playable is preferred).

The problem with that train of thought, though, is the wave directly before it. Joker didn’t Just come with the four Persona costumes and nothing else, he came with two extra Sonic costumes, even though everything else was Persona-only.

It also appears that Square does not actually mix their own costumes in with other packs, across both Wii U and Ultimate. It would seem that the costumes coming with Hero would be their only chance to appear in the initial wave, yet they just... didn’t, which is still quite suspicious.

 

[Heoj]

Boi im really confident in Geno from Super Mario RPG joining Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch! Are you confident in Geno joining the fight in Smash Bros? Cuz I sure am!

 

[pinshadow]

Nice, but you didn’t actually respond to any of the points that I made. Instead you just slapped a label on it and called it a day.

News flash though, plugging your ears and pretending all of it means nothing doesn’t mean that it suddenly will vanish.

Also, there are a ton of picks who aren’t Spirits or ATs who would blow up the internet. Just saying.

What evidence? Seriously, nothing points towards the idea that Spirits can't be promoted in Pass 2 at all.

• But Piranha Plant and no Three Houses event!

The Fighters Pass was negotiated and finalized completely before release. Piranah Plant obviously didn't have a base game spirit because he was planned as DLC. Three Houses didn't get a spirit event because they were planned as DLC. They only planned to do Plant and the 5 Pass characters, so characters who weren't planned got in as Spirits.

• But every DLC Newcomer has been Third Party or a Shill Pick!

K. Rool can't get in, every pick in Smash 4 was a relevancy pick! Banjo can't get in, there's never been a third party western pick before! Fighter 5 will obviously be third party, every other character on the pass is! Some patterns like Pokemon reps are pretty reasonable, but basing speculation on broad, giant patterns like this is pretty baseless, and has nothing to really stand on other than "Well it hasn't happened before!"

• But Spirits are different from trophies!

They really aren't though, they serve the same general purpose of representing characters and items that aren't playable in the game. They serve a game play purpose I suppose, but the idea that Sakurai isn't going to add a character because they are already present in the game in some other form is absurd. Chrom is literally still part of Robin's final smash. Mewtwo and Lucas's Trophies didn't stop him from including them as DLC for Smash 4, where, just like Pass 2, they were not planned to originally be included.

I'm not even saying a Spirit Promotion is guaranteed, because it isn't. All that I'm arguing is that it is entirely possible, and I don't understand why you are acting like it is never going to happen.