Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[nessdeltarune00]

I didn't because the crux of your arguments seem to lie on FE not having a spirit event. Which granted I agree that a spirit event does seem to show that there's not going to be DLC but there's been no Waluigi spirit events, there's been no SMRPG spirit events. There's nothing to suggest a new round of DLC decided now won't be promoting. And as for internet breaking requests that's not what I said. I said fan requests of which there are approximately 0 not already in the game.

That wasn’t all.

There was other stuff that I pointed out that you conveniently glossed over.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The problem with that train of thought, though, is the wave directly before it. Joker didn’t Just come with the four Persona costumes and nothing else, he came with two extra Sonic costumes, even though everything else was Persona-only.

Persona wasn't trying to sell in the West. In fact, it already sold just fine. That's purely a Dragon Quest issue they've been having for ages(it's well known that DQ has had trouble selling in the West, even cited as an issue by SE themselves). It's a unique presentation in that regard. No other presentation works that way because they aren't in the same situation. Also, see: Banjo for the polar opposite. People are looking too hard for rules and patterns. There really aren't any to begin with. Of course, a missing costume can still feel suspicious regardless, though.

Let's not forget how much SE severely pushed DQXI Definite Edition over and over and over again. It's not that surprising the DQ-related presentation kept it the same. And I mean it's like the most pushed game I've seen from them in ages. Only FFVIIr comes close otherwise.

It also appears that Square does not actually mix their own costumes in with other packs, across both Wii U and Ultimate. It appears that the costumes coming with Hero would be their only chance to appear in the initial wave, yet they just... didn’t, which is still quite suspicious.

That only leads me to believe Geno is coming as playable, the costumes are scrapped, or they're coming with another SE character. So it's still suspicious and feels missing, but we have 3 reasonable scenarios. Could also get a deluxe costume, which to be fair, the original one was nearly like a deluxe costume bar the music.

 

[Icewolff92]

Considering the “AT Alliance” thing people did, I would be disappointed seeing people throw major backlash instead of considering it a win for ATs in general. Not all characters can get in, after all, and at least one AT promotion would demolish “ATs 100% disconfirm,” even if they would still not be likely.

That¨s why it would be such an issue. People are rather "over it", then been given "hope" only to be crushed again.

 

[Lord Woomy]

"Man, I sure do want to include Geno in Smash Ultimate but I put a png of his art in almost a year ago. Welp, guess I'll just put in a character I want less because there is literally no way to fix this. If only I had established a precedent for this in Smash 4. Oh well..." -Definitely Sakurai

 

[Heoj]

I never will understand the argument of sakurai and square purposefully not adding in a geno and chocobo mii with hero to "focus on dq", it just sounds whack

 

[Lord Woomy]

I never will understand the argument of sakurai and square purposefully not adding in a geno and chocobo mii with hero to "focus on dq", it just sounds whack

Yeah but if we didn't come up with so many BS fan rules, Geno may actually be looking gulp somewhat likely.

 

[Icewolff92]

I never will understand the argument of sakurai and square purposefully not adding in a geno and chocobo mii with hero to "focus on dq", it just sounds whack

It really isn¨t. that wack. Square pushed Dragon Quest 11 like crazy, and they knew that Geno¨s Mii Costume would steal the spotlight from Hero when they did the presentation

 

[Organization XIII]

There is a big difference between Waluigi spirit event and SMRPG event though

There is but I meant like a game with him in it. Kind of hard to narrow it down when he doesn't have one. I mean there's rumors of MK9 and I could have said that but it's not important. the point was the characters haven't been used during DLC period to imply they won't be used later like the spirit events during DLC.

That wasn’t all.

There was other stuff that I pointed out that you conveniently glossed over.

Those were the only ones I saw looking through your messages. I didn't conveniently do anything. Showing your points instead of leaving me to find them would be helpful.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I do want to point out that while I very much do not believe that Spirit or Assist Upgrades will happen, and have put out some well-thought out ideas, that I myself do not have any qualms with this thread/the users in it.

Thank you!

 

[RingJ5]

Persona wasn't trying to sell in the West. In fact, it already sold just fine. That's purely a Dragon Quest issue they've been having for ages(it's well known that DQ has had trouble selling in the West, even cited as an issue by SE themselves). It's a unique presentation in that regard. No other presentation works that way because they aren't in the same situation. Also, see: Banjo for the polar opposite. People are looking too hard for rules and patterns. There really aren't any to begin with. Of course, a missing costume can still feel suspicious regardless, though.

Let's not forget how much SE severely pushed DQXI Definite Edition over and over and over again. It's not that surprising the DQ-related presentation kept it the same. And I mean it's like the most pushed game I've seen from them in ages. Only FFVIIr comes close otherwise.


That only leads me to believe Geno is coming as playable, the costumes are scrapped, or they're coming with another SE character. So it's still suspicious and feels missing, but we have 3 reasonable scenarios. Could also get a deluxe costume, which to be fair, the original one was nearly like a deluxe costume bar the music.

The idea that Square would just totally give up on selling two already-created items of DLC just to make sure that a tinier bit more focus is put onto a new game is unjustifiably insane. Even “holding it for a year” is absolutely ridiculous when you could literally just be selling the already-completed product for that amount of time instead.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I do want to point out that while I very much do not believe that Spirit or Assist Upgrades will happen, and have put out some well-thought out ideas, that I myself do not have any qualms with this thread/the users in it.

Thank you!

Did somebody mention you?

But yeah, never got the impression you're like that either. You're a good person. I don't agree with your theories all that much, but that's irrelevant to your respectful demeanor.

 

[Lord Woomy]

It really isn¨t. that wack. Square pushed Dragon Quest 11 like crazy, and they knew that Geno¨s Mii Costume would steal the spotlight from Hero when they did the presentation

It wouldn't have though, pretty much everyone (including me) was resigned to the fact that Geno's costume was just gonna come back with Hero. It honestly stole more attention with the fact that it was missing than it would have if it was included. This was pre-Sans too so there was no precedent for worrying that a Mii Costume was gonna steal the spotlight from a character. Even if that is the case, why not show it off with Banjo or Byleth? At least it would have torn the band-aid off a bit better than it would've if they'd shown it off later.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Did somebody mention you?

But yeah, never got the impression you're like that either. You're a good person. I don't agree with your theories all that much, but that's irrelevant to your respectful demeanor.

I was tagged because someone referenced one of my “Spirits could very well disconfirm” posts from yesterday to back their argument which was I believe that Geno will not get in because he’s a Spirit.

I do personally feel Geno will be a Mii Fighter with Forest Mushroom’s as the music piece. If the costume is done well enough then bruh. Could be amazing.

That said, I do like the character. I just do not believe he’ll be playable. If he isn’t, then let’s hope the Mii Costume comes back, and is upgraded!

 

[Icewolff92]

There is but I meant like a game with him in it. Kind of hard to narrow it down when he doesn't have one. I mean there's rumors of MK9 and I could have said that but it's not important. the point was the characters haven't been used during DLC period to imply they won't be used later like the spirit events during DLC.

Nintendo doesn¨t even put him in Wario Ware, (which I can¨t grasp how and why) unfortunately, so I doubt there will be a game soon that they could use Waluigi for so to speak. Even if I disagree with nessdeltarune00 that the chances of Waluigi being upgraded are 0, I have to agree with him that it sure feels like they went all-in on making him NOT playable with what they added in the base game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The idea that Square would just totally give up on selling two already-created items of DLC just to make sure that a tinier bit more focus is put onto a new game is unjustifiably insane. Even “holding it for a year” is absolutely ridiculous when you could literally just be selling the already-completed product for that amount of time instead.

It's not insane. They have had trouble selling DQ in the West, as noted, for ages now. They deliberately made it clear this is the case.

The costumes do not help the situation at all. They only lose the focus, by quite a bit, actually. Chocobo is severely well known and from a series which sells way better in the West, Final Fantasy. Last time Geno came, it with tons of bells and whistles and got people heavily riled up in a good way. It's not worth taking the chance to promote anything but your core product if you think it could hurt the idea.

Whatever happens with the costumes we don't know, but not seeing them in the Hero direct was very understandable, though only in hindsight. I expected them too, but looking at the entire situation? They want to sell DQ, and then want to sell it now. No more, no less. There's no conspiracy theories to be gotten from that.

I was tagged because someone referenced one of my “Spirits could very well disconfirm” posts from yesterday to back their argument which was I believe that Geno will not get in because he’s a Spirit.

I do personally feel Geno will be a Mii Fighter with Forest Mushroom’s as the music piece. If the costume is done well enough then bruh. Could be amazing.

That said, I do like the character. I just do not believe he’ll be playable. If he isn’t, then let’s hope the Mii Costume comes back, and is upgraded!

Ah, fair enough.

I don't know what'll happen. Could go either way. I just hope the costume wasn't scrapped(I consider it less likely to have happen. I'm 50/50 on Playable/Costume myself).

 

[Bob-Omber]

Even if the Geno costume didn't come back just so DG could have the spotlight, wouldn't it have come back in a different fighter pack by now? We already know we don't need the fighter and the costumes to be from the same series or company in the same pack

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

We always seem to fall back into the same arguments. Once Waluigi smashes expectations and fan rules with his arrival, people are gonna need to find new arguments against Geno.

 

[wynn728]

As noted many times before, Hero was purely Dragon Quest-focused. It made tons of sense to not include those two costumes with that character. Yes, it's a catch 22 in a way, but there's no denying how much focus it has. Let's also remember that they were trying hard to push DQ in the West more than ever. Anything non-DQ goes contradictory to that philosophy.

Haha, that's funny. I used that explanation a lot and always got yelled at on this board. Oh how the times have changed.

Also seeing people still talking about Waluigi. Yep, I came back too soon.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

At this point; I'm going all in on Geno and I'm not afraid to eat crow if I some how turn out to be incorrect either.

 

[Droodle]

"Man, I sure do want to include Geno in Smash Ultimate but I put a png of his art in almost a year ago. Welp, guess I'll just put in a character I want less because there is literally no way to fix this. If only I had established a precedent for this in Smash 4. Oh well..." -Definitely Sakurai

That's a little ignorant.

That assumes that Sakurai doesn't have 6 other characters that he really likes that aren't in Smash yet (at all). Sure we know Sakurai likes Geno (among others); but there are likely around a dozen or more characters that Sakurai likes just as much.

I've said this before but the question isn't "Can Sakurai promote ATs/Spirits?". Because he definitely can. But the question is "Would Sakurai prefer adding new characters in any representable forms (Spirits/Costumes/fighters), or prefer upgrading already represented characters into fighters, through DLC.

There's no way to answer this without just waiting it out and seeing what happens.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Haha, that's funny. I used that explanation a lot and always got yelled at on this board. Oh how the times have changed.

It's safe to say I'm getting yelled at too, heh.

Whether or not the costume will return is another story. I admit it not coming back by now does feel weird.

Even if the Geno costume didn't come back just so DG could have the spotlight, wouldn't it have come back in a different fighter pack by now? We already know we don't need the fighter and the costumes to be from the same series or company in the same pack

I agree. It's a bit strange. Other than a possible SE character beyond Geno, it's still possible it's scrapped or Geno is coming.

The good news is we have 3 possible scenarios. And only one of them leaves Geno purely a png.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

It's safe to say I'm getting yelled at too, heh.

Whether or not the costume will return is another story. I admit it not coming back by now does feel weird.


I agree. It's a bit strange. Other than a possible SE character beyond Geno, it's still possible it's scrapped or Geno is coming.

The good news is we have 3 possible scenarios. And only one of them leaves Geno purely a png.

I'd rather have him stay a png tbh. Costumes seems like a far more damning position.

 

[Lord Woomy]

That's a little ignorant.

That assumes that Sakurai doesn't have 6 other characters that he really likes that aren't in Smash yet (at all). Sure we know Sakurai likes Geno (among others); but there are likely around a dozen or more characters that Sakurai likes just as much.

I've said this before but the question isn't "Can Sakurai promote ATs/Spirits?". Because he definitely can. But the question is "Would Sakurai prefer adding new characters in any representable forms (Spirits/Costumes/fighters), or prefer upgrading already represented characters into fighters, through DLC.

There's no way to answer this without just waiting it out and seeing what happens.

That wasn't my argument at all. It was that if Sakurai wanted to add Geno, he wouldn't hold himself back just because he's a spirit. It's supposed to be dismissing the idea that just being a spirit instantly takes a character off the table, no if ands or buts.

 

[Bob-Omber]

I agree. It's a bit strange. Other than a possible SE character beyond Geno, it's still possible it's scrapped or Geno is coming.

The good news is we have 3 possible scenarios. And only one of them leaves Geno purely a png.

I find it really unlikely that Sakurai would just abandon the costume after knowing how much people want Geno and I feel like if any other square character is gonna get in it will probably be Geno first. Unless anyone can think of somebody else?

 

[Malo Mart]

It wouldn't have though, pretty much everyone (including me) was resigned to the fact that Geno's costume was just gonna come back with Hero. It honestly stole more attention with the fact that it was missing than it would have if it was included. This was pre-Sans too so there was no precedent for worrying that a Mii Costume was gonna steal the spotlight from a character. Even if that is the case, why not show it off with Banjo or Byleth? At least it would have torn the band-aid off a bit better than it would've if they'd shown it off later.

Hell, Banjo and Byleth had grab bag Mii costumes anyway, so why not just throw in the Geno and Chocobo costumes with either of them? If they really weren't confident enough in releasing those costumes alongside Hero like people are suggesting, then might as well give'em to us as quickly as possible to start raking in the cash sooner. Holding off these costumes for so long really doesn't make sense to me.

 

[pinshadow]

Acting like the Chocobo Hat and Geno costume were never going to be released with Dragon Quest stuff because it would overshadow it is pretty silly. If they weren't going to be there, why haven't they shown up with one of the other 4 Pass Characters then, because if they weren't planned to be there, they had to be planned for a different pack. Or are we implying they weren't going to bring the costumes back at all, even though Geno's rights are already negotiated, the costumes already exist, and its literally free money for Square? And does the idea that the Hero pack is the only one to not have 2 returning costumes even though 2 are right there for them to use not the tiniest bit suspicious?

 

[mynameisBlade]

I'd rather have him stay a png tbh. Costumes seems like a far more damning position.

That's exactly what I said when I first saw the King K. Rool costume, but obviously the Geno Mii pulls off the LOOK of the character rather convincingly, whereas the K. Rool Mii Outfit was......just...ugh..and still is..

All in all. I'm sure we will all feel very blessed to get Geno in the game as playable, but I have to be honest and confess that I'd be fine with an upgraded Mii Outfit. JUST because it would LOOK more like him I'm sure rather than the abomination that K. Rools was and is... bleh

 

[Icewolff92]

It's safe to say I'm getting yelled at too, heh.

Whether or not the costume will return is another story. I admit it not coming back by now does feel weird.


I agree. It's a bit strange. Other than a possible SE character beyond Geno, it's still possible it's scrapped or Geno is coming.

The good news is we have 3 possible scenarios. And only one of them leaves Geno purely a png.

I don¨t think Geno will end up as purely a PNG. He either ends up as a costume (hopefully then as Sans/Cuphead styled one) arriving with another Square Enix character (Sepiroth?) or being his own character. I mean, while he hasn¨t shown any spirit to character promotion, we have MII Costumes of characters that are spirits.

Acting like the Geno costume was never going to be released with Dragon Quest stuff because it would overshadow it is pretty silly. If they weren't going to be there, why haven't they shown up with one of the other 4 Pass Characters then, because if they weren't planned to be there, they had to be planned for a different pack. Or are we implying they weren't going to bring the costumes back at all, even though Geno's rights are already negotiated, the costumes already exist, and its literally free money for Square? And does the idea that the Hero pack is the only one to not have 2 returning costumes even though 2 are right there for them to use not the tiniest bit suspicious?

Well, hasn¨t Fatman said that they decided to make a second wave of DLC during E3? I ask because that could explain why (if he is a costume that is) why he didn¨t arrive with Terry or Byleth. Would we never be given a second wave, I could easily see him arrive with either Terry or Byleth. They made pushing DQ11 a far bigger deal than anyone here seems to realize

 

[RingJ5]

It's not insane. They have had trouble selling DQ in the West, as noted, for ages now. They deliberately made it clear this is the case.

The costumes do not help the situation at all. They only lose the focus, by quite a bit, actually. Chocobo is severely well known and from a series which sells way better in the West, Final Fantasy. Last time Geno came, it with tons of bells and whistles and got people heavily riled up in a good way. It's not worth taking the chance to promote anything but your core product if you think it could hurt the idea.

Whatever happens with the costumes we don't know, but not seeing them in the Hero direct was very understandable, though only in hindsight. I expected them too, but looking at the entire situation? They want to sell DQ, and then want to sell it now. No more, no less. There's no conspiracy theories to be gotten from that.

That’s unironically one of the dumbest business decisions I’ve heard in a while.

“Hey, we have these two costumes already completed from the last game, and they were pretty popular. Should we throw them into the release and give them like ten seconds of ad time in the presentation?”

“Nah, Dragon Quest needs every single last second. It doesn’t matter if they’d inevitably make at least thousands of extra dollars just by the sheer amount of base game sales alone, we’re just going to leave them completely unreleased.”

 

[MisterMike]

Haha, that's funny. I used that explanation a lot and always got yelled at on this board. Oh how the times have changed.

Also seeing people still talking about Waluigi. Yep, I came back too soon.
View attachment 259653

Didn't you leave or something?

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

That’s unironically one of the dumbest business decisions I’ve heard in a while.

“Hey, we have these two costumes already completed from the last game, and they were pretty popular. Should we throw them into the release and give them like ten seconds of ad time in the presentation?”

“Nah, Dragon Quest needs every single last second. It doesn’t matter if they’d inevitably make at least thousands of extra dollars over the next few years just by the sheer amount of base game sales alone, we’re just going to leave them completely unreleased.”

Didn't Banjo overshadow Hero anyways? They kinda **** the bed on that one if that was the case lmao.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I find it really unlikely that Sakurai would just abandon the costume after knowing how much people want Geno and I feel like if any other square character is gonna get in it will probably be Geno first. Unless anyone can think of somebody else?

Keep in mind it's not about abandoning. Unless he's making him playable, the rest is on SE to say yes. That's why the costumes may not come back. He only could license one thing.

It's why I think Geno is likely coming as playable or a costume. Since scrapping the costumes sounds even less likely, considering Geno is still in Smash in some way. SE already said yes to something. Also, if he wasn't a costume by now, that means negotiations for a costume during Pass 1 either fell through or never happened. Or the costume was saved for later. The two passes were not figured out at the same time, so that matters too.

That’s unironically one of the dumbest business decisions I’ve heard in a while.

“Hey, we have these two costumes already completed from the last game, and they were pretty popular. Should we throw them into the release and give them like ten seconds of ad time in the presentation?”

“Nah, Dragon Quest needs every single last second. It doesn’t matter if they’d inevitably make at least thousands of extra dollars just by the sheer amount of base game sales alone, we’re just going to leave them completely unreleased.”

And yet that's what they did. There is nothing dumb about pushing their product that has had trouble selling. How do you think it's going to sell without mass promotion? Cause that's literally the only option they have.

 

[Droodle]

That wasn't my argument at all. It was that if Sakurai wanted to add Geno, he wouldn't hold himself back just because he's a spirit. It's supposed to be dismissing the idea that just being a spirit instantly takes a character off the table, no if ands or buts.

"Man, I sure do want to include Geno in Smash Ultimate but I put a png of his art in almost a year ago. Welp, guess I'll just put in a character I want less because there is literally no way to fix this. If only I had established a precedent for this in Smash 4. Oh well..." -Definitely Sakurai

You're implying Sakurai chose a character he likes less then Geno; if Geno doesn't get that Fighter Slot.

 

[pinshadow]

You're implying Sakurai chose a character he likes less then Geno; if Geno doesn't get that Fighter Slot.

Sakurai isn't picking the Characters, Nintendo IS. I don't know why people are acting otherwise when he literally said it himself.

 

[Icewolff92]

That’s unironically one of the dumbest business decisions I’ve heard in a while.

“Hey, we have these two costumes already completed from the last game, and they were pretty popular. Should we throw them into the release and give them like ten seconds of ad time in the presentation?”

“Nah, Dragon Quest needs every single last second. It doesn’t matter if they’d inevitably make at least thousands of extra dollars just by the sheer amount of base game sales alone, we’re just going to leave them completely unreleased.”

Concidering how demanded Geno is, no it's not that stupid if you really think about it. Smash community would talk more about why Geno ended up as a costume more than the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai isn't picking the Characters, Nintendo IS. I don't know why people are acting otherwise when he literally said it himself.

We actually know that solely for Pass 1. We don't have any information on Pass 2, so that may or may not be the case.

I'm leaning towards it being the case, but he hasn't given us any real information beyond it'll be similar to the set up of Pass 1, with Stages and Music. Nothing else was confirmed.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Didn't Banjo overshadow Hero anyways? They kinda **** the bed on that one if that was the case lmao.

Yeah, that's actually a really good point to this "overshadowing" thing lol. There's no way they wouldn't have expected a western character to overshadow Hero to westerners. Most people were barely even talking about him afterwards lmao. Thinking about it now, I don't even think the character presentation would've affected DQ11's sales in the West much if at all. They're much more niche and pull in less viewership than directs/reveals. If they really wanted to promote DQ 11 in the west, their strategy of relying exclusively on his character presentation to do it is pretty shoddy, I'd say.

 

[Malo Mart]

I don't quite get why Square and/or Nintendo would be so worried about Geno and Chocobo costumes either. Literally just old costumes that everyone was expecting to come. How would that detract from the Dragon Quest promotion at all? If anything they shot themselves in the foot. The absence of the costumes brought more attention to them and even more so, they revealed Hero just before BANJO AND KAZOOIE, who stole the show from DQ more so than any measly costume could. lmao

 

[Lord Woomy]

You're implying Sakurai chose a character he likes less then Geno; if Geno doesn't get that Fighter Slot.

I'm saying that if Geno's not in, it wasn't because he's a spirit or something like that. Sakurai does't rule out characters for random rules that the fanbase has constructed. We literally have precedent for this, he wanted to include Mewtwo and Lucas in Smash 4 and put them in despite there already being a trophy for them. If he wants to include a character, by everything we know, he just puts them in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To be fair, if the absence of a costume indicates playability, then that would equally apply to both Heihachi and Lloyd as their costumes are also missing, alongside Monster Hunter.

I think there’s a solid chance that they may have been saved for future DLC costume waves especially if those characters (6-11) have been decided upon or were decided upon around June/E3.

EDIT: To be fair in another way, the spirit argument comes down to what Sakurai has as his vision of the game. We may very well not find out which side is closer to correct until Pick 11 gets their livestream, lol.