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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Yeah, I think we really don't need more Pokemon in Smash, and since a gen 8 one would easily be a shill pick... yeah. Don't wanna pay to be advertised to like with Corrin.

That said, YESSS, GEN 8. What are you guys' hopes? I just want more bunny Pokemon or a flamingo Pokemon... or a nice duck. I love nice ducks. Gimme more ducks. To keep this on-topic with Geno, too, if he had a Pokemon team, what do you think he'd have? Pokemon with cannons for arms (Magmortar?) are a necessity, as well as space Pokemon like Clefable or Minior.
I'm interested in a Dolphin Pokemon to be honest, Gen 7 kinda missed their chance for one when they could've easily done it so I'm interested in one.

Also more ghost types are always nice, Gotta love Ghost types.

As for Geno I could see him having a Fairy/Ghost team.
 
D

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Yeah, I think we really don't need more Pokemon in Smash, and since a gen 8 one would easily be a shill pick... yeah. Don't wanna pay to be advertised to like with Corrin.

That said, YESSS, GEN 8. What are you guys' hopes? I just want more bunny Pokemon or a flamingo Pokemon... or a nice duck. I love nice ducks. Gimme more ducks. To keep this on-topic with Geno, too, if he had a Pokemon team, what do you think he'd have? Pokemon with cannons for arms (Magmortar?) are a necessity, as well as space Pokemon like Clefable or Minior.
Minor
Clefable
Jirachi
Starmie
Solrock

Can't think of a sixth one.
 

EarlTamm

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I'm interested in a Dolphin Pokemon to be honest, Gen 7 kinda missed their chance for one when they could've easily done it so I'm interested in one.

Also more ghost types are always nice, Gotta love Ghost types.

As for Geno I could see him having a Fairy/Ghost team.
Geno would be a great Pokemon trainer. I think Mallow would focus on flying and psychic.
 
D

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Geno would be a great Pokemon trainer. I think Mallow would focus on flying and psychic.
Yeah I could see Mallow focusing on Flying/Psychic. I would like to imagine they would travel together like they do in SMRPG or they're rival trainers.
 

Ovaltine

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Yeah I could see Mallow focusing on Flying/Psychic. I would like to imagine they would travel together like they do in SMRPG or they're rival trainers.
Flying and psychic sans one very important exception: Castform.

I don't even think I'll need to explain that one.
 
D

Deleted member

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Since we're talking about what pokemon Geno and Mallow would have, what kinds of pokemon would Smithy have? I'm guessing Steel types
 
D

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That said, YESSS, GEN 8. What are you guys' hopes?
Gen 7 went in a promising direction in which they tried to spice up the structure for the series. I hope they go for something like it again but with better writing.
 

ZelDan

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Yeah, I think we really don't need more Pokemon in Smash, and since a gen 8 one would easily be a shill pick... yeah. Don't wanna pay to be advertised to like with Corrin.

That said, YESSS, GEN 8. What are you guys' hopes? I just want more bunny Pokemon or a flamingo Pokemon... or a nice duck. I love nice ducks. Gimme more ducks. To keep this on-topic with Geno, too, if he had a Pokemon team, what do you think he'd have? Pokemon with cannons for arms (Magmortar?) are a necessity, as well as space Pokemon like Clefable or Minior.
I'd like to see a Pokemon game with a bit more difficulty to it. There should be more trainers that hold 5-6 pokemon. More options when it comes to character customization and clothing. Hopefully there isn't another "Incineroar situation" where I really like a pokemon starters first couple forms, but the last evolution makes me go "wait...what?"
 

Lime3037

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I'm just hoping Gen. 8 has more depth to it than the last few generations. Being on the Switch, there's no excuse not to go all out with locations and things to do.
 
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Ovaltine

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I thought Polar believed in Erdrick.
The timeline of the Geno rumor and the Erdrick thing goes kinda like this, as far as I can surmise:

1) After the November direct, Polar's source's higher-ups reassure him that Geno might be DLC, as to inform him not to give up on Geno yet.
2) The Erdrick rumors have already been going on during all of this, mostly from Leakypandy and Hitagi, but then they spread elsewhere.
3) There has been no update on the Geno rumor, good or bad.
4) Polar's source knows nothing about Erdrick or his legitimacy, despite the large amount of rumors and leaks going around. He even called Erdrick 'Edward' because he had no idea who he was.
5) Polar is leaning into Erdrick and, as relayed by ForsakenM, is kinda 60/40 on him. This isn't because of her source, but the sources of other people and the corroboration from a 5ch leak that predicted P5R and a Granblue fighting game (whose predictability makes this rather debatable, it seems).
6) Insiders, as relayed by Fatmanonice, are apparently wondering if Erdrick was planned for base. Purely speculation on Fatman's side comes with his deduction that Erdrick and Geno might be on entirely different terms in the sense of negotiation, 'Square rep' business, and base game planning vs. DLC planning. They may or may not be in any competition to begin with, despite what the public presumes, but nothing is confirmed.

So, basically, Polar is making personal opinions from what she's been seeing, and her source hasn't heard about Erdrick at all. I don't know if her source personally weighed in on him beyond being literally like, "Who?" Considering he doesn't even know who Erdrick is, though, I'm willing to bet he's neutral and can't weigh in either way.
 

The Anigriffin

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The timeline of the Geno rumor and the Erdrick thing goes kinda like this, as far as I can surmise:

1) After the November direct, Polar's source's higher-ups reassure him that Geno might be DLC, as to inform him not to give up on Geno yet.
2) The Erdrick rumors have already been going on during all of this, mostly from Leakypandy and Hitagi, but then they spread elsewhere.
3) There has been no update on the Geno rumor, good or bad.
4) Polar's source knows nothing about Erdrick or his legitimacy, despite the large amount of rumors and leaks going around. He even called Erdrick 'Edward' because he had no idea who he was.
5) Polar is leaning into Erdrick and, as relayed by ForsakenM, is kinda 60/40 on him. This isn't because of her source, but the sources of other people and the corroboration from a 5ch leak that predicted P5R and a Granblue fighting game (whose predictability makes this rather debatable, it seems).
6) Insiders, as relayed by Fatmanonice, are apparently wondering if Erdrick was planned for base. Purely speculation on Fatman's side comes with his deduction that Erdrick and Geno might be on entirely different terms in the sense of negotiation, 'Square rep' business, and base game planning vs. DLC planning. They may or may not be in any competition to begin with, despite what the public presumes, but nothing is confirmed.

So, basically, Polar is making personal opinions from what she's been seeing, and her source hasn't heard about Erdrick at all. I don't know if her source personally weighed in on him beyond being literally like, "Who?" Considering he doesn't even know who Erdrick is, though, I'm willing to bet he's neutral and can't weigh in either way.
I don't buy the Erdrick was planned for base theory at all honestly. After digging through all the pastebins and datamines, I'm 90% sure whoever got cut was a first party, and I don't think it was the plant. Whoever got cut most likely got cut for a promotion similar to how they revealed Isabelle.

Also I think the less news we get about a specific character for DLC the better. With Joker being a complete surprise I'm doubtful on most leaks.
 

Ovaltine

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I don't buy the Erdrick was planned for base theory at all honestly. After digging through all the pastebins and datamines, I'm 90% sure whoever got cut was a first party, and I don't think it was the plant. Whoever got cut most likely got cut for a promotion similar to how they revealed Isabelle.

Also I think the less news we get about a specific character for DLC the better. With Joker being a complete surprise I'm doubtful on most leaks.
I'm pretty sure the base game theory didn't stem from that missing victory theme, actually, but because of how legal negotiations were being perceived by insiders. It's a bunch of speculation and nothing is confirmed, I have to reiterate, but I'm pretty sure it's not because of the victory theme. The 92 slot was filled with PP's victory theme in 2.0, by the by, so that slot was, indeed, for Plant.
 

Fatmanonice

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So, fun bit of stuff to talk about concerning Brave. One of the members of Polar's private Discord was mulling over the data and made some interesting observations. He decided to go into the shield sizes for characters and discovered that Brave's is the same as Snake's. What's interesting about this is that shield size doesn't necessarily correlate with character height. For example, Yoshi (7.6) has the second smallest shield in the game after Pichu (7.3) and Wolf and Olimar have the same shield size (8.6). A lot of it has to do with either the idle stance or the character's defensive stance.

This is especially notable because Joker's shield size is the same size as ROB and Pirhana Plant (13.4) and bigger than Ganondorf's (12.9). For reference, Brave's shield size is 11.8 but is about the size of Ness/Toon Link and their shields are 8.7 and 9.2 respectively. This suggests that Brave has a very wide idle or defensive stance or they're a short and wide character.

You can compare the numbers for yourself here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...W39Wq34IV8ie4J-GuSKHVhb-gag/edit?usp=drivesdk
 

Ovaltine

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So, fun bit of stuff to talk about concerning Brave. One of the members of Polar's private Discord was mulling over the data and made some interesting observations. He decided to go into the shield sizes for characters and discovered that Brave's is the same as Snake's. What's interesting about this is that shield size doesn't necessarily correlate with character height. For example, Yoshi (7.6) has the second smallest shield in the game after Pichu (7.3) and Wolf and Olimar have the same shield size (8.6). A lot of it has to do with either the idle stance or the character's defensive stance.

This is especially notable because Joker's shield size is the same size as ROB and Pirhana Plant (13.4) and bigger than Ganondorf's (12.9). For reference, Brave's shield size is 11.8 but is about the size of Ness/Toon Link and their shields are 8.7 and 9.2 respectively. This suggests that Brave has a very wide idle or defensive stance or they're a short and wide character.

You can compare the numbers for yourself here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...W39Wq34IV8ie4J-GuSKHVhb-gag/edit?usp=drivesdk
Eh, I think if the height stat gets changed, that doesn't matter in the end. Height seems like it's a placeholder, and how that correlates with the shield may well change. That being said, if the height stat somehow didn't change, that would be fascinating. That'd actually be more points towards Sora as opposed to Erdrick. Right now, though, it's interesting, but we can't come up with anything conclusive still.
 

Teeb147

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This post was warned.
So, fun bit of stuff to talk about concerning Brave. One of the members of Polar's private Discord was mulling over the data and made some interesting observations. He decided to go into the shield sizes for characters and discovered that Brave's is the same as Snake's. What's interesting about this is that shield size doesn't necessarily correlate with character height. For example, Yoshi (7.6) has the second smallest shield in the game after Pichu (7.3) and Wolf and Olimar have the same shield size (8.6). A lot of it has to do with either the idle stance or the character's defensive stance.

This is especially notable because Joker's shield size is the same size as ROB and Pirhana Plant (13.4) and bigger than Ganondorf's (12.9). For reference, Brave's shield size is 11.8 but is about the size of Ness/Toon Link and their shields are 8.7 and 9.2 respectively. This suggests that Brave has a very wide idle or defensive stance or they're a short and wide character.

You can compare the numbers for yourself here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...W39Wq34IV8ie4J-GuSKHVhb-gag/edit?usp=drivesdk
It's funny how you'll use everything you can with your bias. When there's more of a pattern with height than not, you choose to look at the exceptions as not exceptions but instead use that for your argument. And you do this kind of thing all the time.

And for my own sake, i'll limit myself to that one response (on this particularly) :/
 
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Fatmanonice

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Eh, I think if the height stat gets changed, that doesn't matter in the end. Height seems like it's a placeholder, and how that correlates with the shield may well change. That being said, if the height stat somehow didn't change, that would be fascinating. That'd actually be more points towards Sora as opposed to Erdrick. Right now, though, it's interesting, but we can't come up with anything conclusive still.
Pirhana Plant's values were largely unchanged from datamine to its release. The only significant thing that changed was that its air speed was increased a small amount and most things were identical. This makes me believe that the stats in the datamine will largely stay the same.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So, fun bit of stuff to talk about concerning Brave. One of the members of Polar's private Discord was mulling over the data and made some interesting observations. He decided to go into the shield sizes for characters and discovered that Brave's is the same as Snake's. What's interesting about this is that shield size doesn't necessarily correlate with character height. For example, Yoshi (7.6) has the second smallest shield in the game after Pichu (7.3) and Wolf and Olimar have the same shield size (8.6). A lot of it has to do with either the idle stance or the character's defensive stance.

This is especially notable because Joker's shield size is the same size as ROB and Pirhana Plant (13.4) and bigger than Ganondorf's (12.9). For reference, Brave's shield size is 11.8 but is about the size of Ness/Toon Link and their shields are 8.7 and 9.2 respectively. This suggests that Brave has a very wide idle or defensive stance or they're a short and wide character.

You can compare the numbers for yourself here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...W39Wq34IV8ie4J-GuSKHVhb-gag/edit?usp=drivesdk
Interesting. I just see it as an inconsistency. A shield size similar to Marth, Roy, Snake, and Ken, but Brave is supposed to be the size of Lucas and Ness? That's just bizarre to me.

Pirhana Plant's values were largely unchanged from datamine to its release. The only significant thing that changed was that its air speed was increased a small amount and most things were identical. This makes me believe that the stats in the datamine will largely stay the same.
Wasn't Piranha's model and moveset practically finished by the time we had its stats? Kind of a different comparison compared to Joker and Brave who probably had next to no development by the time their stats were discovered.
 

GoodGrief741

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Pirhana Plant's values were largely unchanged from datamine to its release. The only significant thing that changed was that its air speed was increased a small amount and most things were identical. This makes me believe that the stats in the datamine will largely stay the same.
Piranha Plant also appears to have been nearly completed by the game’s release, and was likely a cut character.
 

Teeb147

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Pirhana Plant's values were largely unchanged from datamine to its release. The only significant thing that changed was that its air speed was increased a small amount and most things were identical. This makes me believe that the stats in the datamine will largely stay the same.
Ignoring that pplant's run speed changed drastically. Along with some other less drastic changes. Not to mention that it was close to release and pplant probably was worked on a lot longer. Brave on the other hand was still really early in developemt and has placeholder landing data copied from joker. Oh but let's ignore everything else but what you want to make your point with.
 

Ovaltine

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It's funny how you'll use everything you can with your bias. When there's more of a pattern with height than not, you choose to look at the exceptions as not exceptions but instead use that for your argument. And you do this kind of thing all the time.

And for my own sake, i'll limit myself to that one response :/
... eh? These are just observations he's making. Whether you agree with them or not is subjective, and the objective viewpoint is something we are not privy to, as we don't know how these stats will change or what character it fits. The height stat could still be changed, and therefore, this could fit adult Erdrick. If not, I could see this fitting Sora, who Fatman isn't biased for. There is nothing correlating this to Geno, which is what I presume you're thinking based on your inflammatory remarks from before.

I really recommend that, if you have to fling stuff at people, bring a dose of logic to back it up, too. Attacking people at whichever chance you get rather shows your biases rather than those of others. Just saying.
 

Ingenious!

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I mean, it's not exactly willing to be as crazy and glitz-filled as other fighting games get with their choices, since while some picks are big, they're still within the realm of reason compared to those (Spawn, Darth Vader, Freddie Kruger, Negan, Gon…).

And even with Corrin, it's less insulting than some choices that have been picked for modern Street Fighter games (Street Fighter X Tekken, enough said). Anyway, I'll drop the topic now.




...And this is my cue to leave the thread for the day.

View attachment 194657
No regrets
(100000regrets)
Also so hyped for that pokemon direct yesssss New Gen New Gen! (sorry I know its irrelevent, just trying to lighten the mood ignoreme)
 
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D

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Guest
Ignoring that pplant's run speed changed drastically. Along with some other less drastic changes. Not to mention that it was close to release and pplant probably was worked on a lot longer. Brave on the other hand was still really early in developemt and has placeholder landing data copied from joker. Oh but let's ignore everything else but what you want to make your point with.
Teeb you're getting personal. This is not the kind of attitude the discussion needs. Take a breather because it only makes Erdrick look worse in the eyes of others.
 

TheCJBrine

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It's not like no one else in this thread tries to find stuff in Geno's favor.

Though I'm not sure what Geno's stance would be to fit that shield size.
 
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KCCHIEFS27

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It's funny how you'll use everything you can with your bias. When there's more of a pattern with height than not, you choose to look at the exceptions as not exceptions but instead use that for your argument. And you do this kind of thing all the time.

And for my own sake, i'll limit myself to that one response (on this particularly) :/
He was just putting down interesting bits of info for us to digest however we want. You need to get over this stupid vendetta you have against FMOI. Pay attention to what thread you're posting in and go write this absolute nonsense in your FMOI burn book instead
 

Teeb147

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... eh? These are just observations he's making. Whether you agree with them or not is subjective, and the objective viewpoint is something we are not privy to, as we don't know how these stats will change or what character it fits. The height stat could still be changed, and therefore, this could fit adult Erdrick. If not, I could see this fitting Sora, who Fatman isn't biased for. There is nothing correlating this to Geno, which is what I presume you're thinking based on your inflammatory remarks from before.

I really recommend that, if you have to fling stuff at people, bring a dose of logic to back it up, too. Attacking people at whichever chance you get rather shows your biases rather than those of others. Just saying.
I do bring logic up. I could go in more detail with some time. You just need to look at the list of shield sizes to see that the pattern goes with the size and height of characters. There are a few exceptions, which could be talked about to open to different possibilities, but to right out use those exceptions as if that says something is using the weakest links to try to make a strong argument. It's ridiculous.

We never know the full truth, but we can make good guesses, and that means going with what makes the most sense wherever we can. There's lots more I could say, including about bias, subjective and objective points, but that would take longer, and I dont exactly feel like going into so much right away.
 
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Ze Diglett

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Ignoring that pplant's run speed changed drastically. Along with some other less drastic changes. Not to mention that it was close to release and pplant probably was worked on a lot longer. Brave on the other hand was still really early in developemt and has placeholder landing data copied from joker. Oh but let's ignore everything else but what you want to make your point with.
I'm pretty sure that run speed value was just a nonsense value made up by KuroganeHammer to **** with people, considering nobody else corroborated it and it ended up being so incredibly off-base. So yeah, I'm gonna say it's safe to ignore that unless we can get someone to confirm it via datamining.
And ironically, you're the one assuming things here, not Fatman. You took him writing down a list of relevant info as him somehow trying to "confirm" Brave as Geno... what? Not every word that comes out of his mouth has to be about Geno, y'know. You need to chill the hell out, my guy.
 
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Ovaltine

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It's not like no one else in this thread tries to find stuff in Geno's favor.

Though I'm not sure what Geno's stance would be to fit that shield size.
Plain and simple, it wouldn't fit. As much as my biases lean for Geno more often than not, the reality of the matter is that he does not fit Brave's parameters as they stand. Someone can support a character while also laying down information that may not correlate to their preferred character. I don't have personal attachment to Erdrick and I can't stand Sora, but I try to look at things from a speculative and unbiased standpoint. It's not hard to do.

The leap in logic that, "Oh, Fatman is posting speculation on these stats, so he MUST be trying to shoehorn Geno into them because he wants Geno!" is ridiculous and indicative of twisting things to further your own vendetta. That's basically being what you're hating on.

I do bring logic up. I could go in more detail with some time. You just need to look at the list of shield sizes to see that the pattern goes with the size and height of characters. There are a few exceptions, which could be talked about to open to different possibilities, but to right out use those exceptions as if that says something is using the weakest links to try to make a strong argument. It's ridiculous.

We never know the full truth, but we can make good guesses, and that means going with what makes the most sense wherever we can. There's lots more I could say, including about bias, subjective and objective points, but that would take longer, and I dont exactly feel like going into so much right away.
The past few times, you hadn't. You have followed up now with some logic, but not until you already threw inflammatory remarks without information to back it up. Attacking people isn't cool. Refuting points and debating is healthy, but that is not.
 

Teeb147

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This aged well
That's mostly the plan just to not get into a tense conversation.
I dont mind replying on other stuff. I just wanted to make my point and drop it. I was pretty calm about it, so i find your other post kind of harsh. Anyway, i said it and maybe later if i feel like we can have a nice talk i could get back on it. not feeling for now, and i hope that can be respected..
 

Ovaltine

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That's mostly the plan just to not get into a tense conversation.
I dont mind replying on other stuff. I just wanted to make my point and drop it. I was pretty calm about it, so i find your other post kind of harsh. Anyway, i said it and maybe later if i feel like we can have a nice talk i could get back on it. not feeling for now, and i hope that can be respected..
I'll respect that, but not without one parting phrase to keep in mind and stew on:

Treat people the way you want to be treated.

See ya later, and hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.
 

Fatmanonice

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Ignoring that pplant's run speed changed drastically. Along with some other less drastic changes. Not to mention that it was close to release and pplant probably was worked on a lot longer. Brave on the other hand was still really early in developemt and has placeholder landing data copied from joker. Oh but let's ignore everything else but what you want to make your point with.
And what is the point I'm trying to make? By all means, explain in detail because I love me a good conspiracy theory. It's like with the Direct and how you threw a weird tantrum because me and the insiders I associate with didn't expect a character announcement because nobody had heard anything. Also, no, Kurogane later admitted that he BS'd PP's run speed when other data miners like Mizumi called him out on it. Yes, values can change but, since we don't have a significant occurrence of this yet, it's merely a hypothetical. We'll see with Joker in about a month and a half. Maybe take a step back if data from spreadsheets makes you go all Donald Duck like this.
 

Teeb147

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I'm pretty sure that run speed value was just a nonsense value made up by KuroganeHammer to **** with people, considering nobody else corroborated it and it ended up being so incredibly off-base. So yeah, I'm gonna say it's safe to ignore that unless we can get someone to confirm it via datamining.
And ironically, you're the one assuming things here, not Fatman. You took him writing down a list of relevant info as him somehow trying to "confirm" Brave as Geno... what? You need to chill the hell out, my guy.
I talked about bias, but I didn't mean anything about geno at all. And the data might be corroborated, you would just need to find someone who looked into that data before the patch where it changed.

I'll respect that, but not without one parting phrase to keep in mind and stew on:

Treat people the way you want to be treated.

See ya later, and hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.
Well, it seems hard to talk about this without people being triggered,. If I bring something up to be looked at, it's not to be mean, and I think it overlooks quite a bit of what I could bring up and even explain, and to feel like i have to defend myself just because of some emotions there might be. I dont like to feel like that, and I dont think my posts deserve that, even if I could find even more ways to talk about it. If you want me to be nicer too, then please be nice to me as well. That's all I can ask for now. Someone can get upset and still have good points, and it's easier to elaborate if I feel comfortable to talk about it.

Let's refresh things if we can, and have some nice talks if we can. I'll still post about other things when i check around.
 
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Nazyrus

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Well, it seems hard to talk about this without people being triggered…
huh… funny you say that since you literally came here to blabber this…

It's funny how you'll use everything you can with your bias. When there's more of a pattern with height than not, you choose to look at the exceptions as not exceptions but instead use that for your argument. And you do this kind of thing all the time.

And for my own sake, i'll limit myself to that one response (on this particularly) :/
… because you are the one who, not even the first time happening, get triggered by what a specific user says which btw Fatman didn't even mention any character name in particular and you still flipped. Please look yourself in a mirror before saying that people can't talk about something without being "triggered", you literally came in being disruptive first thing. You need to learn how to deal with people you disagree with in a different way. Seriously, this is not even the first time we tell you this, and it's kinda annoying to see you come to this thread with that attitude once again.
 

The Anigriffin

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I'm pretty sure the base game theory didn't stem from that missing victory theme, actually, but because of how legal negotiations were being perceived by insiders. It's a bunch of speculation and nothing is confirmed, I have to reiterate, but I'm pretty sure it's not because of the victory theme. The 92 slot was filled with PP's victory theme in 2.0, by the by, so that slot was, indeed, for Plant.
You sure it was originally intended for Plant? There’s a possibility someone else got cut and plant was a cover for it. I mean they’re completely aware of all the datamines and stuff so covering it up wouldn’t shock me.
 

Fatmanonice

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Jul 27, 2006
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Fatmanonice
Maybe leading off a conversation with the equivalent of "you're biased and deliberately trying to deceive people" isn't exactly the best way to get people to consider your point of view. You can't barge in, tell me to practically eat your ass and then expect me to grab a spoon as if I'm about to enjoy a fine tiramisu. The post was neutral and boring as possible and yet, here we are again for whatever reason.
 
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