Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[grizby2]

It feels that way. My biggest fear is people eventually giving into the hate Geno gets and just outright leaving his support. Geno is quite literally the absolute last piece for me when it comes to having the perfect roster. We got banjo and now it's just geno that remains. We've gotten so close it seems and I refuse to believe being a spirit will be our end.

I do have a question for you all though. Let's say hypothetically they still don't give Geno's mii costume back when The Hero gets released. Do you think that helps Geno's chances? I still think it's odd they haven't given out his costume back despite his demand. My biggest hope is that he gets shadowdropped and is revealed to be an extra character outside of the season pass or perhaps a "sakurai pick" after the season pass is over. Huge stretch, but seeing banjo has given me hope since it's clear they are listening, and with how popular geno is in both america AND japan, he has to make it eventually.

I do think it would help Genos chances. I'm hoping square finally realized his potential.
I also think he'd be a perfect "the fighter pass is over, and here's a FREE little treat for you all" kind of character. he'd be the 7th DLC character, to sort of tie in with the 7 stars. lol

in the event hes not in the pass, I like to believe we'd have a second smash Ballot, but a REAL ballot this time. not a "anyone can go online and spam votes and write long essays" ballot. I want a PURE ballot, which requires you to own the game and have a switch account or something. I'm not sure if they can make an in-game voting system, buts that's what I want next time around! maybe pick 2 characters to give a vote for, and they MUST be from the list of spirits in the base game.
And then they can tally the votes for 3 final fan faves? idk. I'm just dreamin' over here.

 

[GoodGrief741]

They've made 13.81 million sales of Smash Ultimate which only included 3 characters that didn't have direct origin in Japan and all originated from an originally Japanese series. The rest of the world seems more than content with playing the game with Japanese IPs as the absolute focus. Banjo Kazooie is the first original Western series to have a playable rep in Smash. So, as far as Nintendo is concerned, they have no reason to change their ways. Plus, I mean, go to any major popularity poll: Isaac, Geno, Bandanna Dee, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Ashley, Waluigi, Lloyd Irving, Leon Kennedy, Travis Touchdown, even ****ing Goku. The astounding majority of the characters people tend to focus on in traditional Smash forums are almost all Japanese too. Characters like Shantae, Shovel Knight, and Doom Slayer are quite the minority in comparison.

I don't think it's necessarily some Western vs Japanese thing. I think it's which characters they notice just always being predominately Japanese based. Indies kind of go out the window because they have other potential limiting factors which reduces the viability of them as playable in Smash given that they have a much more uphill battle than others to earn that spot, which immediately knocks the top contenders at least within the ballots we've seen which would be one of their better ways of understanding Western appeal they might not otherwise catch in Japan. Let's take a look at some major third party franchises from the West that have connections to Nintendo:

Spoiler: Long List of Third Parties and My Comments with Respect to Smash

Mortal Kombat - The series isn't even properly released in Japan, which certainly means it more or less completely lacks viability in Smash. Slight chance of happening I guess, but game's not releasing in places have been a problem for other characters in Sakurai's mind.

DOOM - The FPS genre isn't particularly popular in Japan to begin with and Doom itself isn't super popular there. Doom Slayer himself can be a hard sale to people here sometimes and he may be pushing on boundaries that we're unaware of for Sakurai. Joker's gun would presumably have proven this otherwise, but Doom is definitely the next level in testing those boundaries. I don't think it would really be a problem to tune him down for Smash though, but again, we don't quite know where Sakurai's boundaries lie on this issue. He's also just much more recently gotten some popularity as a character choice in Smash. The series certainly earns points in importance towards gaming history though.

The Elder Scrolls - No clear character representative for the game since there are sooo many customization options. You could do a Dragonborn character for sure (Especially in the wake of The Hero), but The Elder Scrolls has more playable races than we have alts to choose from and almost entirely unique classes for the characters. Not super easy to pull off and would need a lot of work to pull off, but it's certainly doable.

Fallout - Vault Boy could work, though he's never been playable and mostly just works as a mascot for the series. Otherwise, falls into the same issues as The Elder Scrolls. Also falls into the category of FPS, so it loses points in Japan there as well. I'd also think that Bethesda and Nintendo would likely prioritize The Elder Scrolls over Fallout if I'm being honest.

Crash Bandicoot - Quite a reasonable rep with actual popularity in Japan too and a lot of character. Probably one of our best bets for a second "Western" rep if I'm being honest and I think he might have a good shot, though I do wonder about his viability beyond nostalgia, but we have Banjo, so that doesn't matter.

Spyro - Much less popular in Japan and Crash would undoubtedly have to come first since he holds so much more meaning to the console market overall as Sony's big platforming mascot of the 90s.

Grand Theft Auto - Probably just never going to happen and only unrecognizable characters have appeared on Nintendo consoles with Chinatown Wars and GTA on the Gameboy Advance. A GTA character would definitely push boundaries further than any other character as they have to basically be entirely built around shooting real guns. I also know the series isn't super popular in Japan (or knew at one point, that could have changed) and I think that's probably a line Sakurai is unwilling to cross.

Rayman - I'm baffled he isn't already in the game (or at least the Rabbids). He's an icon and mascot for a well known third party supporter that has largely stuck with Nintendo. I guess he's just not popular in Japan and that makes him less enticing for Smash, but yeah, I'm mostly confused on his absence at this point. Though, unfortunately, I do think his Spirit is the one definitive one to deconfirm...

Halo - Certainly possible if Microsoft would allow it and Nintendo wanted it, but Banjo Kazooie clearly took priority. Also another FPS and Xbox related which means it basically has no following in Japan given Xbox sells atrociously no matter what they do.

Minecraft - Actually super popular in Japan and has potential, but suffers from the same character complaints people have levied at it all speculation and also Banjo Kazooie took priority.

Diablo - There's a real difficulty in selecting someone from Diablo that stands out enough to be Smash worthy or clear as something that may be worth pursuing.

Starcraft - Not really a clear character option for Starcraft in Smash, but I also know basically nothing of the series.

Mass Effect - You could probably do Shepard. But I also don't think EA is keen at all on continuing the series and seems intent on moving away from it. Shepard is also pretty customizable from what I remember.

The Witcher - The Witcher 3 is coming to Switch, so Geralt might have a serious shot at inclusion in Smash and he's a well defined character on his own too. No idea on his Japanese popularity though. Also CD Project Red is based in Poland, so they already don't quite fit into Western gaming super well, but for the sake of this discussion they are in comparison to Japan.

I tried to stick to major series that have appeared on Nintendo consoles in the past since that's generally the requirement for a character from them to show up in Smash is some semblance of a prior appearance, so something like Halo sneaks in on a technicality. Going over that list, there's a much bigger focus on character creation and customization in a great many of these games. And they often give much wider ranges of character customization than I see in Japanese reps and specifically the reps that we have that function as Avatars. Two characters in Skyrim will almost look completely different from one another where Villagers in Animal Crossing tend to retain several similarities in style. That sort of thing makes choosing a rep a LOT harder since you have to consider how you adapt those wildly different characteristics and the overall game. So I think a lot of big series lose support in Smash, with probably Dragonborn having the best chance of those.

Of the more traditionally named variety, it seems a lot of them struggle in Japan popularity wise which makes them less likely to land on Sakurai's radar. And in some instances those characters have been out-prioritized by others such as Crash over Spyro and Banjo Kazooie over Steve and Master Chief.

If I had to choose which Western third party reps were even really serious parts of the conversation, I'd think it would be Doom Slayer, Crash Bandicoot, Geralt of Riviera (But he's probably much too recent, though Nintendo seems to have had a big hand in bringing The Witcher 3 to Switch) Dragonborn, and Rayman fair the best. But I think Rayman is kind of already out thanks to his Spirit (I mean they would have specifically had to contact Ubisoft just for that one) and Dragonborn would need to be as ambitious as, if not more so than, The Hero to be done properly. I just don't actually see a ton of demand for a lot of the big choices of Western characters honestly, and if I'm not seeing it, than I imagine it's harder for executives and Sakurai to see them in Japan. Especially when several Western series are just wholly unpopular over there. It's actually kind of amazing how few Western characters even achieve significant popularity in our circles and how there fewer significant Western third parties than you'd think with Nintendo connections.

And to be clear, these are just my sort of assessment on the matter and mostly derived from my experiences. I'd have to do a much more in depth analysis of series popularity in Japan to really properly back this up, but we do see trends of several Western third party franchises struggling much more in Japan and I do think there's a lot more character customization in many of the big titles that maybe makes their inclusions into Smash more challenging or less apparent.

What do you think of Lara Croft? Iconic, influential, has been on Nintendo consoles. I don't know how her games did in Japan, but considering the popularity of the PS1 there, more outlandish, pre-DMC-ish gameplay and her exaggerated proportions I imagine it might have done at least better than most shooters.

Something to consider is that the character doesn't necessarily have to be popular in Japan, as long as a huge portion of Westerners enjoy the character. Was B-K popular in Japan? It probably hurts their chances a bit if the East didn't care for them at all though.

Something else that sounds weird but should still be taken into consideration, while we've had the Internet since well before the first Smash game (Smash "64") even came out, gaming still wasn't fully mainstream and developers and fans weren't really communicating to each other, especially not during development. Plus, even if you could talk to the Smash team, you'd have the culture+language barrier to cross. I would argue it took them until it came time for the DLC spots for Smash 4 that they really wanted to start adding character for the fans, not just ones they liked, with a few interesting picks here and there (like Sonic and Snake in Brawl), which is why we're seeing so many Western-favorites like Ridley, King K. Rool, Isabelle, and now Banjo-Kazooie. Hell just look at the newcomers for Ultimate alone and I'd say there's more characters that Westerners really like over not. DQ Hero is honestly the first character in Ultimate that's been very divisive (another anime swordperson and from a franchise that hasn't been super popular here like it is in Japan).

As far as picking characters made in the West, does anyone seriously, actually, care about this? There's very few "Western-made" characters that I actually care about in comparison to the East, some I would absolutely despise. While I think it's important to pick characters that the West will like as well (DQ Hero was more for just Eastern fans than the West, but B-K was definitely more for West than East as well!), sometimes things happen and you just gotta deal with it. Keep cheering on your favorites and if there's anything to take away from this, it's that no matter how dead or irrelevant you think your character is now, just look at Banjo-Kazooie to know that anything's possible. As long as you know the character's very popular, there's always a chance, so be vocal about it and bring in others to join you.

PS: Assuming I'm right in my guess that we'll be getting more non-Pass DLC post Feb 2020, I wouldn't be surprised to see many more fan-favorite picks (perfect time for Geno; right now I strongly believe Mii Costume Theory with B-K taking up the 5th extra slot).
Also if a Smash 6 does end up happening, I'd be willing to bet indies would finally get their chance (like Shovel Knight, Quote, Undertale characters, etc).

As far as I heard, people in Japan were also cheering when Banjo was announced. We might have underestimated his Japanese support (or maybe they're just cheering in solidarity with us).

It feels that way. My biggest fear is people eventually giving into the hate Geno gets and just outright leaving his support. Geno is quite literally the absolute last piece for me when it comes to having the perfect roster. We got banjo and now it's just geno that remains. We've gotten so close it seems and I refuse to believe being a spirit will be our end.

I do have a question for you all though. Let's say hypothetically they still don't give Geno's mii costume back when The Hero gets released. Do you think that helps Geno's chances? I still think it's odd they haven't given out his costume back despite his demand. My biggest hope is that he gets shadowdropped and is revealed to be an extra character outside of the season pass or perhaps a "sakurai pick" after the season pass is over. Huge stretch, but seeing banjo has given me hope since it's clear they are listening, and with how popular geno is in both america AND japan, he has to make it eventually.

I would definitely be concerned. It might show that we isn't a priority. So I would really need an announcement of a second FP. If it happens, then he's as good as confirmed. But if he isn't... That doesn't look good at all for his chances of eventually joining Smash.

It's not a very happy gamble to make tbh.

 

[Polarthief]

Spoiler

That's sort of the point of my post though.

Sorry I wasn't disagreeing with you, more like reinforcing "well, let's be honest, most Western characters suck". The ones that don't though, if important enough, will get in (hello B-K).

Also regarding any of the "create a character" potential picks such as Skyrim (not that I'm advocating for a Dragonborn character), I think it'd be neat if they had a customization area which would let you pick stuff like this for specific characters, maybe for a specific game. Heck, you could also do this with stuff like Villager too (connect it to the Animal Crossing release on that console and you could import your own character!). The problem though is storage space for the game would probably grow pretty big.

I think it will forever bother me (or at least until he is added) how Geno is important enough to have a reveal style trailer made for his Mii Costume (music and all). But not important enough to be playable yet. He is in a constant state of being so close yet so far away.

The only costume to get one too, right? It's like giving a fanfare for flipping you off. Like yeah it's nice, but who honestly gives a huge crap about the Mii costumes? I mean, maybe a few more people now that you can play the Mii fighters online, but I'd almost rather him be an Assist Trophy at this point over a spirit and Mii costume. At least then we can give up til the next game.

Let's say hypothetically they still don't give Geno's mii costume back when The Hero gets released. Do you think that helps Geno's chances? I still think it's odd they haven't given out his costume back despite his demand

Assuming Mii Costume theory is correct, they'll be readding his costume with the DQ Hero pack, and I don't think it affects his chances in the slightest because they're just bringing back a costume that used to exist. Now if Geno didn't have a costume until Smash Ultimate, that's when it would hurt his chances. Ultimately, just keep supporting the character, and it could happen someday. I will near-guarantee that he won't be in this Fighter's Pass (assuming there's more than one or more DLC coming after, which I thoroughly do believe either or will happen).
How I see it:
- Assist Trophy: 99.9% deconfirmed (for any game they have Assist Trophy status)
- Mii Costume (new to that game): ~80% deconfirmed
- Spirit: ~5% deconfirmed (I really don't think Spirits deconfirm characters, but they may affect chances. Nintendo could argue "Look! Geno's in Smash!")
~Mii Costume (returning): 0% deconfirmed (very tiny sample size to take from, being just Smash 4 and now Smash Ultimate DLC packs, but you get my idea)

My biggest hope is that he gets shadowdropped and is revealed to be an extra character outside of the season pass or perhaps a "sakurai pick" after the season pass is over. Huge stretch, but seeing banjo has given me hope since it's clear they are listening, and with how popular geno is in both america AND japan, he has to make it eventually.

Yeah, especially if he did as well in the Smash Ballot as B-K did, then I think his chances actually will skyrocket, assuming Square's on board with it too; with him being a spirit, this actually increases his chances since they're okay with letting him "be" in Smash! TBH I was also kinda hoping Porky would get this too, seeing as this year's the 30th anniversary of the Mother series, it's the Year of the Pig, and Porky is mysteriously not in Smash in any way, while he's always been at least a trophy, boss, or at least shown somewhere since Melee.

Basically, don't give up hope for Geno, but definitely give up hope of him getting in this specific Fighter's Pass, because his chances are effectively 0.1% with DQ taking up a slot on the pass, and DQ being a Square rep. Would be really weird to give two slots to a specific company.

As far as I heard, people in Japan were also cheering when Banjo was announced. We might have underestimated his Japanese support (or maybe they're just cheering in solidarity with us).

If they were legit excited, that's awesome to hear. I honestly have 0 idea on the East's popularity for B-K. The only thing I know, at least as far as the Internet goes, is how very VERY little negativity there is for the bear-and-bird duo. This could be because, like Joker, this opens the door for a lot more characters. Joker was for those out-of-nowhere picks, but B-K is especially good at giving chances to ones that aren't relevant anymore, such as... well, Geno for one. Obviously many people (myself included, they were my #2 pick!) were excited to have B-K for B-K, but others who are kinda meh towards the character are probably happy that this opens the door, similarly to how Shovel Knight has opened the potential for more indie stuff in Smash (maybe even a fighter in a post-FP DLC?).

 

[papagenos]

I’m pretty sure I saw it confirmed that this was fake.

That said, while on the Banjo discord today someone mentioned that an admin in papagenos ’s discord apparently has a friend who works in a warehouse or something and months ago saw some paperwork listing Luminary and Banjo amiibos along with Sans from Undertale and Waluigi. I’m extremely skeptical of this and honestly moreso the Waluigi part than anything else.

Its a strange situation and I am extremely skeptical of it myself. What I can say for sure is that the person with this info told me about their friend with these connections Months before claiming knowing any characters or anything like that so it wasnt completely out of the blue when they said they supposedly saw this paperwork, the admin seems generally very honest to me (not saying the info is true but I dont think they are making it up, maybe someone is being tricked or something though) and was wary of sharing it publicly because of how "out there" the characters are, luminary was specified a couple weeks before the reveal trailer we just got and if these are supposedly amiibo...well we now know luminary is in fact the default "hero" and would be the one getting an amiibo, Its possible the information is true and an undertale amiibo and a waluigi amiibo are happening but not for smash.

Thats all I know on this one, I'm wary of it because undertale is indie and waluigi is an assist making them both very unlikely... although mattering to when the DLC was chosen I could actually see waluigi being chosen after the fan outcry last year. sakurai often breaks his own rules and final character reveal for ultimate should be a fan favorite imo.

So after getting Luminary > Erdrick as the default I'll now be keeping an eye on this one but its certainly strange... I still think something like a namco rep and capcom rep to finish off the DLC is more likely and more where I'm leaning with my prediction.

 

[GillyGrime]

I think the fact that DLC fighters come with their own spirit board hurts the theory that Waluigi will be the last fighter in the pass.

Could he bring with him spirits that aren’t already ingame? I guess but it’d be a stretch imo. He’s more likely as a bonus fighter, though I’d say Geno is frontrunner for that.

 

[Vector Victor]

So before the mural was updated, Mii Brawler and Swordfighter were on top with Gunner below. Now with Banjo added nearby, Swordfighter moved down with Gunner leaving Brawler by himself on top.

Since it would be odd for the three to be separated and Sword could have just moved slightly to the right to fit Banjo instead of to the bottom, odds are a new character will go near where Brawler is now and he'll move to the bottom with the rest.

What does this mean? Why, playable Geno, Mallow and Croco.

 

[Polarthief]

Thats all I know on this one, I'm wary of it because undertale is indie and waluigi is an assist making them both very unlikely... although mattering to when the DLC was chosen I could actually see waluigi being chosen after the fan outcry last year. sakurai often breaks his own rules and final character reveal for ultimate should be a fan favorite imo.

Indie doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen, though I am very skeptical of Undertale content (as cool as it would be; I'm a huge fan). Waluigi on the other hand was made an assist trophy (huge strike against him) and is a first party IP (smaller strike), which means two things:
First, and this being the smaller of the two, all the (Ultimate) DLC packs have been 3rd party up to this point, and I personally think the last two will be as well. Second, Sakurai said that the DLC was already all picked (by Nintendo) before the game even released. That would make for a really odd choice to leave Waluigi in as an assist trophy, not put him in the base roster, and then slap him on as DLC (specifically, the already-picked Fighter's Pass lineup). Plus, what will they do with the assist trophy version of Waluigi if they actually do end up making him a DLC character?
Too many signs point to "definitely not in this Fighter's Pass; could potentially be a post-FP DLC character", assuming they want to break the whole "assist trophies deconfirm characters" thing.

Edit: The only way this would make sense is if Nintendo (not Sakurai, because again, Nintendo picked the Fighter's Pass characters) wanted to, intentionally, disappoint/troll Waluigi fans with an assist trophy, so they go "okay well there's no chance in hell now", then to be like "HAHA GOT YOU, HERE'S WALUIGI" over a year later, and I honestly don't see that happening. If Sakurai was doing this, maybe, just maaaaybe I could see that. Nintendo though? Nah. But I do think he has a possibility for post-FP DLC, but we're still 8+ months away from there; I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai+Nintendo is already picking/has already picked some post-FP DLC fighters for 2020-2021.

I still think something like a namco rep and capcom rep to finish off the DLC is more likely and more where I'm leaning with my prediction.

I'm banking on Mii Costume theory as well.

I think the fact that DLC fighters come with their own spirit board hurts the theory that Waluigi will be the last fighter in the pass.

Even without that, Fighter's Pass DLC fighters were picked before the game came out. Why leave him in as an AT?
Regarding spirits though, they could just add more Mario-universe spirits to go with him, or because he's first party, just not add any at all. They never explicitly said they had to add more spirits for DLC packs, that was just an unexpected bonus to go with Joker (though I do expect Rare spirits for Banjo-Kazooie's pack since we do have those datamined Rare spirits already unused in game).

 

[EarlTamm]

I know this was not much of a worry, but I think it's safe to say the Geno's design will be an excellent recreation after seeing Banjo.

 

[Firox]

Understanding importance, sure. But there's a long road between that and playable.

And in my experience Doomguy has done pretty dismally in polls before his 'leaks'. While he's doing better now, I can't even begin to imagine how poorly he must perform on a global scale.

The thing that has always annoyed me about Doomguy, Erdrick and Ryu Hyabusa is that I never saw any of them in the top ten of any poll until the alleged leaks brought them to light. That's not to say that they didn't have their own sort of popularity, but in the context of smash bros, they were obscure at best. That's why I thought the "Google leak" theory was so absurd. It was purely based on exposure, and exposure was purely based on rumor and suggestion. If someone yells loud enough that "Character X" is getting in, all the sudden you'll have a tidal wave of bandwagoners coming out of the woodwork. Like I've said before, if a notable leaker were to claim that Geno was the next DLC, I GUARANTEE you that his popularity would explode like never before. All the sudden, he'd be confirmed by the laughable "Google leak" and people who never knew who he was would be defending why he's so relevant and deserves to get in. Amazing what a little boredom and suggestion can do with people's imaginations.

 

[Datboigeno]

Its a strange situation and I am extremely skeptical of it myself. What I can say for sure is that the person with this info told me about their friend with these connections Months before claiming knowing any characters or anything like that so it wasnt completely out of the blue when they said they supposedly saw this paperwork, the admin seems generally very honest to me (not saying the info is true but I dont think they are making it up, maybe someone is being tricked or something though) and was wary of sharing it publicly because of how "out there" the characters are, luminary was specified a couple weeks before the reveal trailer we just got and if these are supposedly amiibo...well we now know luminary is in fact the default "hero" and would be the one getting an amiibo, Its possible the information is true and an undertale amiibo and a waluigi amiibo are happening but not for smash.

Thats all I know on this one, I'm wary of it because undertale is indie and waluigi is an assist making them both very unlikely... although mattering to when the DLC was chosen I could actually see waluigi being chosen after the fan outcry last year. sakurai often breaks his own rules and final character reveal for ultimate should be a fan favorite imo.

So after getting Luminary > Erdrick as the default I'll now be keeping an eye on this one but its certainly strange... I still think something like a namco rep and capcom rep to finish off the DLC is more likely and more where I'm leaning with my prediction.

Not to add more fuel to this already sketchy possibility but:

https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/971877341285769222?s=21

And also don’t forget

Spoiler

It probably means nothing because KH3 had a Smash reference as well and it’s not like Sora is playable (yet). And yeah at the very least I think another Capcom rep is extremely likely.

 

[xpnc]

Not to add more fuel to this already sketchy possibility but:

https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/971877341285769222?s=21

And also don’t forget

Spoiler: big image

View attachment 227839

It probably means nothing because KH3 had a Smash reference as well and it’s not like Sora is playable (yet). And yeah at the very least I think another Capcom rep is extremely likely.

Flashbacks to "the Ultimate slumber party"

I don't think a single one of these references has ever been really pointing to anything

 

[Ovaltine]

It feels that way. My biggest fear is people eventually giving into the hate Geno gets and just outright leaving his support. Geno is quite literally the absolute last piece for me when it comes to having the perfect roster. We got banjo and now it's just geno that remains. We've gotten so close it seems and I refuse to believe being a spirit will be our end.

I do have a question for you all though. Let's say hypothetically they still don't give Geno's mii costume back when The Hero gets released. Do you think that helps Geno's chances? I still think it's odd they haven't given out his costume back despite his demand. My biggest hope is that he gets shadowdropped and is revealed to be an extra character outside of the season pass or perhaps a "sakurai pick" after the season pass is over. Huge stretch, but seeing banjo has given me hope since it's clear they are listening, and with how popular geno is in both america AND japan, he has to make it eventually.

Geno has a lot of genuine and loving support, and after seeing Banjo get in, people haven't been flinging as much hate towards the very mention of Geno as they did in the past. I think B-K really hit the nail on the head in terms of anyone being a possibility, moreso than Joker ever could. They're a competitor's IP, their franchise has been dead for over a decade, and they're as fan demanded as a fan demanded pick could get. I've even see Geno naysayers change their minds and say, "You know what, after seeing Banjo, I think Geno actually does have a chance, after all." If anything, I think B-K's inclusion has cemented that Geno's support will remain as strong as ever, if not even stronger. I wouldn't be worried there.

If we don't get the costume back for Geno, I'll admit that it'll look good for his chances. Why port over the Mii costume if the character is going to be playable? Then again, they could also do so to A) milk as much money out of Geno as they can, playable in the future or not, and B) do so as a quick cash-grab, given his costume wouldn't be new, but ported. It's the only reason I think the Mii costume isn't a deconfirmation. It tells me he isn't in the Fighter's Pass, but after seeing Banjo make it in by a miracle, I still wouldn't count Geno out, even after we get the costume. I wouldn't expect him, but you never know.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think the fact that DLC fighters come with their own spirit board hurts the theory that Waluigi will be the last fighter in the pass.

Could he bring with him spirits that aren’t already ingame? I guess but it’d be a stretch imo. He’s more likely as a bonus fighter, though I’d say Geno is frontrunner for that.

That's my thoughts and why I've largely doubted characters like BWD in the Fighter Pass. Waluigi doesn't really have a stage or music that's distinctly his aside from Waluigi Pinball from Mario Kart DS. For someone like Geno, it's totally different because Geno even has multiple locations that are specifically associated with him (Forest Maze and Star Hill) and not a single original track from SMRPG has found its way into Smash yet. There's also the matter of spirits and, again, SMRPG has a ton of original art along with characters like Booster and Boshi who have an uncanny resemblance to other characters. Megasilax? Oh, hey, Pirhana Plant. Smithy? Giant Grandpa-dorf with a hammer. Bowyer? Red and green Pit. I could go on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Geno has a lot of genuine and loving support, and after seeing Banjo get in, people haven't been flinging as much hate towards the very mention of Geno as they did in the past. I think B-K really hit the nail on the head in terms of anyone being a possibility, moreso than Joker ever could. They're a competitor's IP, their franchise has been dead for over a decade, and they're as fan demanded as a fan demanded pick could get. I've even see Geno naysayers change their minds and say, "You know what, after seeing Banjo, I think Geno actually does have a chance, after all." If anything, I think B-K's inclusion has cemented that Geno's support will remain as strong as ever, if not even stronger. I wouldn't be worried there.

If we don't get the costume back for Geno, I'll admit that it'll look good for his chances. Why port over the Mii costume if the character is going to be playable? Then again, they could also do so to A) milk as much money out of Geno as they can, playable in the future or not, and B) do so as a quick cash-grab, given his costume wouldn't be new, but ported. It's the only reason I think the Mii costume isn't a deconfirmation. It tells me he isn't in the Fighter's Pass, but after seeing Banjo make it in by a miracle, I still wouldn't count Geno out, even after we get the costume. I wouldn't expect him, but you never know.

B-K has had constant new merchandise for a while now. That's not a dead franchise, that's a franchise being used. It'd be great if got more than new merchandise when using the IP, though. Rare Replay slightly counts, but that's not a new thing they got, just pushing of the IP's older games for fun. Overall, franchise can't be dead if it's being used for new stuff entirely.

Unfortunately, a lot of franchises are dead and getting nothing new these days.

The character actually being somewhat obscure yet a major fan request really does help Geno, though.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I just want to say I think it's amazing that everyone's being as optimistic as they are. Back when the ballot happened (well before I ever got into smash speculation) and I cast my vote, I didn't realize that our little blue boi had the following he does, I genuinely thought it'd be me and maybe one or two other people that even cared. and yet here we all are, that thought alone does wonders for my spirit.

 

[Firox]

Geno has a lot of genuine and loving support, and after seeing Banjo get in, people haven't been flinging as much hate towards the very mention of Geno as they did in the past. I think B-K really hit the nail on the head in terms of anyone being a possibility, moreso than Joker ever could. They're a competitor's IP, their franchise has been dead for over a decade, and they're as fan demanded as a fan demanded pick could get. I've even see Geno naysayers change their minds and say, "You know what, after seeing Banjo, I think Geno actually does have a chance, after all." If anything, I think B-K's inclusion has cemented that Geno's support will remain as strong as ever, if not even stronger. I wouldn't be worried there.

If we don't get the costume back for Geno, I'll admit that it'll look good for his chances. Why port over the Mii costume if the character is going to be playable? Then again, they could also do so to A) milk as much money out of Geno as they can, playable in the future or not, and B) do so as a quick cash-grab, given his costume wouldn't be new, but ported. It's the only reason I think the Mii costume isn't a deconfirmation. It tells me he isn't in the Fighter's Pass, but after seeing Banjo make it in by a miracle, I still wouldn't count Geno out, even after we get the costume. I wouldn't expect him, but you never know.

Totally agree with your assessment of the Mii Costume. Nintendo could easily bring it back when Hero is released, just to milk the ported version, then unveil a playable Geno anyway and double dip. Gosh dang it, that puts a huge gray area into predicting his inclusion and is also the most likely outcome. I guess we won't know until this whole thing's over. Hooray for suspense!

 

[Ovaltine]

B-K has had constant new merchandise for a while now. That's not a dead franchise, that's a franchise being used. It'd be great if got more than new merchandise when using the IP, though. Rare Replay slightly counts, but that's not a new thing they got, just pushing of the IP's older games for fun. Overall, franchise can't be dead if it's being used for new stuff entirely.

Unfortunately, a lot of franchises are dead and getting nothing new these days.

The character actually being somewhat obscure yet a major fan request really does help Geno, though.

That's true, but I can't even begin to count how many times I've seen people say, "THAT DOESN'T COUNT, THOUGH!" I guess whether it's just game-wise or not is rather subjective. That said, that does mean Geno isn't exactly dead either, given SMRPG still gets ported to this day (more now than ever before), acknowledged, and Geno's been represented in Smash twice now.

Whatever the case, it does look a lot better for Geno's future, even if he doesn't make it to Ultimate. I have a lot of faith that we'll see him in something new again.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's true, but I can't even begin to count how many times I've seen people say, "THAT DOESN'T COUNT, THOUGH!" I guess whether it's just game-wise or not is rather subjective. That said, that does mean Geno isn't exactly dead either, given SMRPG still gets ported to this day (more now than ever before), acknowledged, and Geno's been represented in Smash twice now.

Whatever the case, it does look a lot better for Geno's future, even if he doesn't make it to Ultimate. I have a lot of faith that we'll see him in something new again.

It definitely looks better for the puppet man. Also, fun fact: Franchises often live and die on merchandise alone. This killed multiple Digimon shows as is, due to bad merchandise sales.

I want SMRPG merchandise now. Not just amiibo either. I guess unless we get a proper revival or Square wants to push SMRPG, something beyond the amiibo is very unlikely.

 

[Ovaltine]

It definitely looks better for the puppet man. Also, fun fact: Franchises often live and die on merchandise alone. This killed multiple Digimon shows as is, due to bad merchandise sales.

I want SMRPG merchandise now. Not just amiibo either. I guess unless we get a proper revival or Square wants to push SMRPG, something beyond the amiibo is very unlikely.

Yeah, I wouldn't even expect an amiibo unless Geno got into Smash, and even then, that'd mean nothing else BEYOND that. I'd love to see more SMRPG merch. I promise that it'd sell like hotcakes, especially since the few official pieces of merch that exist are very rare, very coveted, and VERY expensive. That'd drive an insane amount of demand for new stuff.

I want a little Geno amiibo on my desk! :3

 

[T2by4]

I honestly just wish we knew Square's thoughts on Geno. Like are they willing to let him be playable someday or do they not see his potential and refuse? I really just want to know if he really isn't going to ever have a shot or not. The anticipation is killing me knowing we were so close in sm4sh and yet don't have any specific answers for ultimate.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Totally agree with your assessment of the Mii Costume. Nintendo could easily bring it back when Hero is released, just to milk the ported version, then unveil a playable Geno anyway and double dip. Gosh dang it, that puts a huge gray area into predicting his inclusion and is also the most likely outcome. I guess we won't know until this whole thing's over. Hooray for suspense!

Christ... Could you imagine? Virtually everyone hanging up their hat with a Mii costume reveal and then like 4 months down the road it turned out to be a massive fake-out? There's a side of me that does hope the little things like the Geno and Shulk pairing were subtle hints all along but I also don't want to go off the tinfoil hat deep end. For my mental health, I'm largely going to assume it's over if the Mii costume is revealed.

 

[EarlTamm]

Christ... Could you imagine? Virtually everyone hanging up their hat with a Mii costume reveal and then like 4 months down the road it turned out to be a massive fake-out? There's a side of me that does hope the little things like the Geno and Shulk pairing were subtle hints all along but I also don't want to go off the tinfoil hat deep end. For my mental health, I'm largely going to assume it's over if the Mii costume is revealed.

It would be like a longer, real life version of the K.Rool/Banjo trailer, except it actually tricks us.

 

[xpnc]

I honestly just wish we knew Square's thoughts on Geno. Like are they willing to let him be playable someday or do they not see his potential and refuse? I really just want to know if he really isn't going to ever have a shot or not. The anticipation is killing me knowing we were so close in sm4sh and yet don't have any specific answers for ultimate.

I assure you that if anyone is stopping Geno from being playable in 2019 it's Masahiro Sakurai. We've all discussed the leaps and bounds he would have had to have gone through to get Hero playable and yet despite the statistic improbability he pulled it off. Square-Enix thought Cloud was a weird choice and offered a more recent character or one that's been on a Nintendo console but it was 100% up to Sakurai who he wanted.

Reading Phil Spencer's interview regarding Banjo has me 100% convinced that literally anyone could be in. There are no more companies that won't play ball, there isn't a single game studio on the planet that wouldn't benefit from one of their characters in Smash. Nintendo pays them and then they get more money as a percentage of the DLC sales, and they get some of the best PR and advertisement in the business.

At this point we just have to believe Sakurai hasn't gone rogue and understands what the people want. Mii costumes for Hero will be our D-Day

 

[Vector Victor]

They could do Geno and a Mii costume. Builder Mario also has a Builder Mii costume.

One thing I noted: what was a stupi-, er, common knock against Banjo and Kazooie? They would be a Duck Hunt clone. And what was their trailer? Duck Hunt pretending to be them to troll fans. 'Duck Hunt clone" wasn't nearly a frequent whine like 'Ridley too big,' and yet, like Ridley, tne developers acknowledged it in their trailers. All that to say that they are listening, and I would be shocked if Geno flew past them.

 

[Mastadoom88]

Spoiler

I don't care if we don't get more Western reps. Banjo and Kazooie were the only ones I wanted in. Doomguy's great, Rayman's awesome, and so on and so forth, but the one that I was dying for finally happened. Honestly, apart from hoping (with optimism, especially since Banjo is in and I don't horribly mind if Geno misses the boat now because AAAAAAAA BANJO) for Geno, I'm so blasé about whatever else happens with Smash now, haha. I'm just so sunny and content with B-K alone that my heart is impenetrable. It cannot possibly be broken anymore now that my childhood heroes are finally home. <3

See...despite your dismissiveness and lack of sympathy torwards me and others like me who felt burned after Geno was snubbed yet again, (which stung coming from someone i respect in the Geno scene no lie) I want to respectfully say I disagree on your approach.

Aside from Geno and Porky, Banjo was my most wanted. I'm overjoyed that he and Kazooie are here. I'm not saying to not to be celebratory.

However, I will say that with the massive wave of hatred that has emerged for Geno, coupled with him constantly getting sh*t on time and time again, now is not the time to become blissfully indifferent.

If people like you and PapaGenos (forgive me, but you can't convince me you didnt give up a while ago) give up on Geno, where the hell do we go from here?

Like has been mentioned, i worry that the hatred for him will decrease his support, but Im even more worried about complacency.

Honestly I'm not entirely sure what to do myself, but I wont bail on the star boy.

The reveal of Banjo makes me feel my gut impulse about Geno being inevitable even stronger.

But again, you and others reacted to my sadness and others with dismissiveness or straight up condescension, even going so far as to judge my life's priorities.

I'm sure this post will trigger the soft as heck mods in here (who apparently cant even deal with punching bag posts without flagging them) and I'll be called out for some sort of "flaming", despite using completely valid feelings.

You'll be shielded because everyone loves you in here, understandably so. Everyone will jump to your defense and i will be labeled toxic. It's all good. Give up if you want. I always respect you as a fellow artist and Geno advocate with awful anxiety.

But at least I'll never be the one that will have to say I gave up on Geno nor treated people I should be sympathetic to like they were crazy when they were hurting. You seem like a good person and perhaps it was a misunderstanding on my end or out of character for you.

I loved that this was the one place that didnt pelt us for loving Geno and not giving up. I guess that isnt as true as I thought. Unless you roll over and "be happy for others" while they parade around saying their glad your "waste of space junk" most wanted didnt get in. And you can do nothing but smile because Geno Gang must be seen as angelic and always vicariously overjoyed

I know several of you havent given up, so stay strong. Sakurai hears us. Vergeben be damned.

 

[Ovaltine]

See...despite your dismissiveness and lack of sympathy torwards me and others like me who felt burned after Geno was snubbed yet again, (which stung coming from someone i respect in the Geno scene no lie) I want to respectfully say I disagree on your approach.

Aside from Geno and Porky, Banjo was my most wanted. I'm overjoyed that he and Kazooie are here. I'm not saying to not to be celebratory.

However, I will say that with the massive wave of hatred that has emerged for Geno, coupled with him constantly getting sh*t on time and time again, now is not the time to become blissfully indifferent.

If people like you and PapaGenos (forgive me, but you can't convince me you didnt give up a while ago) give up on Geno, where the hell do we go from here?

Like has been mentioned, i worry that the hatred for him will decrease his support, but Im even more worried about complacency.

Honestly I'm not entirely sure what to do myself, but I wont bail on the star boy.

The reveal of Banjo makes me feel my gut impulse about Geno being inevitable even stronger.

But again, you and others reacted to my sadness and others with dismissiveness or straight up condescension, even going so far as to judge my life's priorities.

I'm sure this post will trigger the soft as heck mods in here (who apparently cant even deal with punching bag posts without flagging them) and I'll be called out for some sort of "flaming", despite using completely valid feelings.

You'll be shielded because everyone loves you in here, understandably so. Everyone will jump to your defense and i will be labeled toxic. It's all good. Give up if you want. I always respect you as a fellow artist and Geno advocate with awful anxiety.

But at least I'll never be the one that will have to say I gave up on Geno nor treated people I should be sympathetic to like they were crazy when they were hurting. You seem like a good person and perhaps it was a misunderstanding on my end or out of character for you.

I loved that this was the one place that didnt pelt us for loving Geno and not giving up. I guess that isnt as true as I thought. Unless you roll over and "be happy for others" while they parade around saying their glad your "waste of space junk" most wanted didnt get in. And you can do nothing but smile because Geno Gang must be seen as angelic and always vicariously overjoyed

I know several of you havent given up, so stay strong. Sakurai hears us. Vergeben be damned.

Dude, I am always going to hope for and campaign for Geno. I'm just saying that I won't be nearly as crushed as I would have been because I'm happy at least one of my most wanteds made it. I'm not giving up on him, and the fact that you're saying I'm 'dismissive of Geno's fans' and 'have no sympathy for them' is a disgusting and insulting leap. How about we do not ****ing do that? No one is crazy for hurting. I feel especially awful for Geno and his fans more than any other character that may be missing the boat this time because he felt like he was so close, yet so far. We're still working on a lot for Operation Starfall in the background. I'm ALWAYS thinking of Geno and his fans and ALWAYS trying to deliver more content, do more things, and fight for him. That has not stopped and never will.

I'll always be one of Geno's biggest advocates. I will ALWAYS fight for him. I won't just roll over with complacency. I will keep fighting for him. For you to randomly paint me as someone who is ****ting on the whole fan base when I was crushed to see Geno not make it (despite B-K making it in and bringing my spirits back up from the brink) is such an insult, and if you think I'll just take that sitting down with a smile on my face, you've got another thing coming, sir. Random ad hominem against my character for trying to look on the bright side of things OVER A VIDEO GAME is low. That is ridiculously low.

Calm yourself. Don't behave like a goddamn child because my way of coping with the loss of Geno — joy over Banjo and Kazooie, my childhood heroes coming home to me — doesn't align to your personal tastes. I have many more choice words I could be saying here, but at risk of needlessly flaming, so I'm ending it off here. Grow the hell up.

 

[valkiriforce]

For all we know the Mii costumes appearing earlier could be used as a way of saying, "Just wait a little longer...until then, have fun with the Mii outfit" otherwise for me it pretty much is a gray area as to whether he gets in or not. Sakurai's good at subverting expectation.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Seriously, I hate you all for making me now consider a fake out scenario... It's unprecedented but not impossible and just the kind of wacky bull**** that Sakurai probably would want to wrap up the Fighter Pass on. Would Square Enix double dip? Who are we kidding? Of course they would... Plenty of playable characters have full blown costumes and it's not like it's the scenario from the last game anymore in that the costume would be totally brand new, it would be simple port like all the others. There's also the fact that if Geno didn't appear as a costume, it would raise a ton of suspicion immediately. **** me... We're really seeing this through to the absolute end, aren't we?

 

[Ovaltine]

Seriously, I hate you all for making me now consider a fake out scenario... It's unprecedented but not impossible and just the kind of wacky bull**** that Sakurai probably would want to wrap up the Fighter Pass on. Would Square Enix double dip? Who are we kidding? Of course they would... Plenty of playable characters have full blown costumes and it's not like it's the scenario from the last game anymore in that the costume would be totally brand new, it would be simple port like all the others. There's also the fact that if Geno didn't appear as a costume, it would raise a ton of suspicion immediately. **** me... We're really seeing this through to the absolute end, aren't we?

I sure am. I understand if anyone else doesn't because they want to protect their sanity. God, I know that with every fiber of my being. That said, though, I am on this train until it crashes and burns and evacuation is mandatory. For better or for worse, I'm on this gravy train.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Seriously, I hate you all for making me now consider a fake out scenario... It's unprecedented but not impossible and just the kind of wacky bull**** that Sakurai probably would want to wrap up the Fighter Pass on. Would Square Enix double dip? Who are we kidding? Of course they would... Plenty of playable characters have full blown costumes and it's not like it's the scenario from the last game anymore in that the costume would be totally brand new, it would be simple port like all the others. There's also the fact that if Geno didn't appear as a costume, it would raise a ton of suspicion immediately. **** me... We're really seeing this through to the absolute end, aren't we?

I'm sure SE would try negotiating for every spot on the fighter pass if you let them. They just adore DLC. Geno would be a no brainer with little effort on their part that I don't understand why a deal wouldn't take a place.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Seriously, I hate you all for making me now consider a fake out scenario... It's unprecedented but not impossible and just the kind of wacky bull**** that Sakurai probably would want to wrap up the Fighter Pass on. Would Square Enix double dip? Who are we kidding? Of course they would... Plenty of playable characters have full blown costumes and it's not like it's the scenario from the last game anymore in that the costume would be totally brand new, it would be simple port like all the others. There's also the fact that if Geno didn't appear as a costume, it would raise a ton of suspicion immediately. **** me... We're really seeing this through to the absolute end, aren't we?

What part of "there are no stops on the hype train" didn't you understand when you signed up?

 

[kiteinthesky]

Spoiler

See...despite your dismissiveness and lack of sympathy torwards me and others like me who felt burned after Geno was snubbed yet again, (which stung coming from someone i respect in the Geno scene no lie) I want to respectfully say I disagree on your approach.

Aside from Geno and Porky, Banjo was my most wanted. I'm overjoyed that he and Kazooie are here. I'm not saying to not to be celebratory.

However, I will say that with the massive wave of hatred that has emerged for Geno, coupled with him constantly getting sh*t on time and time again, now is not the time to become blissfully indifferent.

If people like you and PapaGenos (forgive me, but you can't convince me you didnt give up a while ago) give up on Geno, where the hell do we go from here?

Like has been mentioned, i worry that the hatred for him will decrease his support, but Im even more worried about complacency.

Honestly I'm not entirely sure what to do myself, but I wont bail on the star boy.

The reveal of Banjo makes me feel my gut impulse about Geno being inevitable even stronger.

But again, you and others reacted to my sadness and others with dismissiveness or straight up condescension, even going so far as to judge my life's priorities.

I'm sure this post will trigger the soft as heck mods in here (who apparently cant even deal with punching bag posts without flagging them) and I'll be called out for some sort of "flaming", despite using completely valid feelings.

You'll be shielded because everyone loves you in here, understandably so. Everyone will jump to your defense and i will be labeled toxic. It's all good. Give up if you want. I always respect you as a fellow artist and Geno advocate with awful anxiety.

But at least I'll never be the one that will have to say I gave up on Geno nor treated people I should be sympathetic to like they were crazy when they were hurting. You seem like a good person and perhaps it was a misunderstanding on my end or out of character for you.

I loved that this was the one place that didnt pelt us for loving Geno and not giving up. I guess that isnt as true as I thought. Unless you roll over and "be happy for others" while they parade around saying their glad your "waste of space junk" most wanted didnt get in. And you can do nothing but smile because Geno Gang must be seen as angelic and always vicariously overjoyed

I know several of you havent given up, so stay strong. Sakurai hears us. Vergeben be damned.

Relax, my good dude. Nobody here is giving up. We all want Geno in just as much as you do -- and it's okay if there are haters. There are haters for every popular Smash contender. Banjo had a lot of haters, believe it or not. Nothing that any of them do are going to influence Nintendo's decision making either way, so don't worry about what they have to say.

It'll be okay. Either Geno will make it in one of the last two DLC slots or we'll just start campaigning for the next DLC pack or the next Smash game.

 

[valkiriforce]

By the way, I find it amazing that if Nintendo of Japan is indeed responsible for selecting these DLC characters so far (with Sakurai giving the final say-so as to whether they can be made into fighters or not) the fact that Banjo-Kazooie got in before Geno for me is a really big sign that somebody somewhere is listening. I highly doubt someone like Geno who has been floating around for many years now has escaped their attention, and he has seen support on both sides. It really is up to Sakurai though as others have said, and honestly there's a lot that would make sense to fill those last gaps in character DLC, so that makes it all the harder to predict where Sakurai's mind would go on the matter. He does feel like one of the last highly requested characters to me, as others have already said, so I do have my hopes for it.

 

[Ovaltine]

By the way, I find it amazing that if Nintendo of Japan is indeed responsible for selecting these DLC characters so far (with Sakurai giving the final say-so as to whether they can be made into fighters or not) the fact that Banjo-Kazooie got in before Geno for me is a really big sign that somebody somewhere is listening. I highly doubt someone like Geno who has been floating around for many years now has escaped their attention, and he has seen support on both sides. It really is up to Sakurai though as others have said, and honestly there's a lot that would make sense to fill those last gaps in character DLC, so that makes it all the harder to predict where Sakurai's mind would go on the matter. He does feel like one of the last highly requested characters to me, as others have already said, so I do have my hopes for it.

And even if not, it does give me hope that Nintendo will do something with Geno again in the future. They are definitely listening. If the freaking Duck Hunt meme can reach their ears, Geno's popularity must have.

By the way, Square's reiterated again that they want all of their games available digitally, including their retro games. Wii U VC probably won't last for TOO much longer, which is the only way to get SMRPG digitally now, so... guess what may very well be in the pipeline for a Switch port one day?

 

[waterhasataste]

Been literal ages since I've been on here with my account (though I still lurk from time to time), but I'd just thought I'd say that after Banjo and Hero's confirmation, I'm a lot more hopeful for Geno than I ever have been. Not sure if I'll have time to constantly be on here but I'd thought I'd throw out that I'm extremely hopeful for the little puppet!

 

[Datboigeno]

Seriously, I hate you all for making me now consider a fake out scenario... It's unprecedented but not impossible and just the kind of wacky bull**** that Sakurai probably would want to wrap up the Fighter Pass on. Would Square Enix double dip? Who are we kidding? Of course they would... Plenty of playable characters have full blown costumes and it's not like it's the scenario from the last game anymore in that the costume would be totally brand new, it would be simple port like all the others. There's also the fact that if Geno didn't appear as a costume, it would raise a ton of suspicion immediately. **** me... We're really seeing this through to the absolute end, aren't we?

For me personally the three things that are still really keeping the hope alive of Geno appearing sooner than later are 1. Polar's contact at NoA saying they were outright told Geno was coming*, 2. The Nintendo artist saying there had been a lot of talk around Geno in 2015 and 3. The Vifam figure. Those 3 things still remain unresolved. I know Polar awhile ago basically made it sound like Geno wasn't coming after all despite what her contact had been told, but I still think there's something going on. The first part especially because of papagenos's contact that let him know Banjo was coming months ago. Like even before Grant Kirkhope was contacted to do new Banjo music for SSBU. So it's possible that word may have been going around regarding FP characters for awhile before DLC was solidified (Hero also confirms this). I know this will sound like moving goalposts considering Vergeben's source was *technically* correct about a DQ rep, but it should be pointed out that he was putting all his chips on Erdrick specifically. Not Luminary. Not a situation that we actually have with a bunch of DQ heroes. So it is possible he might not have been 100% correct about Geno being leakbait.

*correction: They were told he might be coming.

 

[Ovaltine]

For me personally the three things that are still really keeping the hope of Geno appearing sooner than later are 1. Polar's contact at NoA saying they were outright told Geno was coming, 2. The Nintendo artist saying there had been a lot of talk around Geno in 2015 and 3. The Vifam figure. Those 3 things still remain unresolved. I know Polar awhile ago basically made it sound like Geno wasn't coming after all despite what her contact had been told, but I still think there's something going on. The first part especially because papagenos's contact that let him know Banjo was coming months ago. Like even before Grant Kirkhope was contacted to do new Banjo music for SSBU. So it's possible that word may have been going around regarding FP characters for awhile before DLC was solidified (Hero also confirms this). I know this will sound like moving goalposts considering Vergeben's source was *technically* correct about a DQ rep, but it should be pointed out that he was putting all his chips on Erdrick specifically. Not Luminary. Not a situation that we actually have with a bunch of DQ heroes. So it is possible he might not have been 100% correct about Geno being leakbait.

Well, Polar's contact said they were told Geno MIGHT be DLC, not that he outright will be. That's an important distinction to make.

 

[ForsakenM]

I’m pretty sure I saw it confirmed that this was fake.

That said, while on the Banjo discord today someone mentioned that an admin in papagenos ’s discord apparently has a friend who works in a warehouse or something and months ago saw some paperwork listing Luminary and Banjo amiibos along with Sans from Undertale and Waluigi. I’m extremely skeptical of this and honestly moreso the Waluigi part than anything else.

Before we go off the deep end on this one, may I remind everyone what happened the LAST TIME we believed in somebody from a warehouse?

Spoiler

Yeah, I wouldn't be trusting any warehouse people any time soon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay guys I'm working on a post that in the beginning covers the real things we need to worry about and then after that INSPIRES the MUDDY TRUCKING SHIZZLE OUT OF US!

I'll post it as soon as I wake up from my fever dream. I keep thinking Banjo-Kazooie got revealed for Smash, but I know it could never happen so I'm constantly pinching myself....NOTHING IS CHANGING, SOMEBODY HELP!

Seriously though, I've been in this state of trying to cement this reveal in my brain. I keep watching reaction videos and it still seems so surreal.

 

[owjies]

I just want to say I think it's amazing that everyone's being as optimistic as they are. Back when the ballot happened (well before I ever got into smash speculation) and I cast my vote, I didn't realize that our little blue boi had the following he does, I genuinely thought it'd be me and maybe one or two other people that even cared. and yet here we all are, that thought alone does wonders for my spirit.

So true. I remember having that same feeling during Brawl. I always thought Geno or Mallow would be perfect for Smash but just kinda assumed it was a pipe dream. Then all of a sudden Sakurai was like, “Hey, here’s a list of the most requested characters: 1. Dedede, 2. Diddy, 3. Geno, 4. Ike ...” That was such a thrill and an out of nowhere surprise.

A decade, costume, and legendary spirit later and Geno’s still just on the periphery of making it in. He’s so close. He’s still topping polls. A lot of people like to argue that Geno’s a, “one-off side character.” Back in Brawl that always bothered me, but looking at it with a broader perspective, I see it as a positive. Somehow this character that has been sitting on Square’s shelf for 20 years evokes a level of sustained passion and support that’s just incredible.

Again, I’m really surprised that Geno’s not an AT yet. I feel like if he’s really a never-ever, the fanbase’s consistency has at least earned a proper disconfirmation. I’m expecting the costume to come back when Hero’s added, but somehow that doesn’t feel right. Almost all the Mii costumes upgraded in some way except for Geno, Heihachi, and Lloyd. A Namco rep and Geno as the final two slots seems a bit too good to be true, though.

I think what really set Banjo apart was a combination of overwhelming fan support and the correct timing. Nintendo’s working closely with both Microsoft and Square, but I can understand that pushing DQ was in both Square and Nintendo’s interest. With both FF and DQ represented, I think it’s important that Square, particularly, knows just how rock solid Geno’s support is. Phil Spencer being cool with Banjo a couple years ago is an extremely important element that Geno might still need—from Square’s perspective anyway.

 

[Datboigeno]

Well, Polar's contact said they were told Geno MIGHT be DLC, not that he outright will be. That's an important distinction to make.

Very true. But the overall context of how that specific person was told this is what makes me feel like there was more to it than just a possibility being thrown around.