Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

If that were the case we'd be getting a very different DLC roster. Even if fan favorites would sell better (which I think they would) it's clear the people making the calls don't think so.

They would be pretty stupid to ignore the fact that DQ has always underperformed or did poorly in the West. Even they should realize that it would be a risky/potentially financially liable move over someone like Sora or even Geno. The former would almost assuredly be a big hit

 

[Datboigeno]

If that were the case we'd be getting a very different DLC roster. Even if fan favorites would sell better (which I think they would) it's clear the people making the calls don't think so.

I mean it’s not like Joker’s coming from a massive franchise. I’d consider him a fan favorite. Persona while popular isn’t necessarily a juggernaut of sales.

Only people who dont know too deep on dragon quest consider it generic jrpg. There's so much in the series that can be used that's far from bland. Sakurai wouldnt have to make challenging effort since he'd put love into it, too.

People who think that erdrick would necessarily only use a sword dont know much about it either. Depends what sakurai wants to do tho, really.

lol no need to get so defensive I clearly meant Erdrick was generic not all of DQ. I agree that there’s a lot to DQ that’s not generic. Hence why I think slime would be a DQ Rep. Even if he didn’t only use a sword and had some magic idk if that’s enough to make him super interesting to a lot of people.

 

[Ze Diglett]

If that were the case we'd be getting a very different DLC roster. Even if fan favorites would sell better (which I think they would) it's clear the people making the calls don't think so.

Bruh. We've seen one Fighter Pass character so far. We can't exactly use that as a definitive indicator of what the rest of the DLC is gonna be like, can we?

 

[Teeb147]

They would be pretty stupid to ignore the fact that DQ has always underperformed or did poorly in the West. Even they should realize that it would be a risky/potentially financially liable move over someone like Sora or even Geno. The former would almost assuredly be a big hit

I already talked about this, but it's normal for businesses to spend money for promotion. It wouldnt be considered anymore a risk than that. But anyway it's big enough in japan to justify it just on sales. Tho obviously it would spread easily enough elsewhere, being smash.

 

[TriggerX]

Only people who dont know too deep on dragon quest consider it generic jrpg. There's so much in the series that can be used that's far from bland. Sakurai wouldnt have to make challenging effort since he'd put love into it, too.

People who think that erdrick would necessarily only use a sword dont know much about it either. Depends what sakurai wants to do tho, really.

I personally hope that Erdrick is a character that uses multiple weapons and gear to in his game play mechanics to pay homage to his JRPG roots. Like most people have said, he is kind of a template type character when you compare him to names like Cloud and Joker. But that may work in his favor to introduce a unique game mechanic like collecting armor or weapons on the stage to "customize" your player. Im sure they will think of something if he is indeed in.

However, I've played 8 and one of the older gameboy entries and what I would say DQ 's game play mechanics are pretty basic. I can't speak on the series' changes after 8, but from what I can tell its the same basic JRPG mechanics that have been around for years. Hasn't really done much to progress the JRPG Genre like other series have in the past 10 years.

However, I do believe DQ's historical importance in gaming history is enough to merit some form of representation in Smash even if the series isn't as well known in the west as some others.

 

[Teeb147]

I mean it’s not like Joker’s coming from a massive franchise. I’d consider him a fan favorite. Persona while popular isn’t necessarily a juggernaut of sales.



lol no need to get so defensive I clearly meant Erdrick was generic not all of DQ. I agree that there’s a lot to DQ that’s not generic. Hence why I think slime would be a DQ Rep. Even if he didn’t only use a sword and had some magic idk if that’s enough to make him super interesting to a lot of people.

I dont know why youre saying defensive, just felt like mentioning. Most people say they're generic because of certain reasons. If you think the design is generic then there's plenty of people who'd feel differently, since toriyama's art is liked by a lot of people and isn't considered as generic as other anime. Personally I find cloud's design more bland. And then as far as having more personality, that's pretty easy to do for a dragon quest character. I like the images that Naoyatodo drew lately:

(image isn't working but you can click reply to see it, i think)

I personally hope that Erdrick is a character that uses multiple weapons and gear to in his game play mechanics to pay homage to his JRPG roots. Like most people have said, he is kind of a template type character when you compare him to names like Cloud and Joker. But that may work in his favor to introduce a unique game mechanic like collecting armor or weapons on the stage to "customize" your player. Im sure they will think of something if he is indeed in.

However, I've played 8 and one of the older gameboy entries and what I would say DQ 's game play mechanics are pretty basic. I can't speak on the series' changes after 8, but from what I can tell its the same basic JRPG mechanics that have been around for years. Hasn't really done much to progress the JRPG Genre like other series have in the past 10 years.

However, I do believe DQ's historical importance in gaming history is enough to merit some form of representation in Smash even if the series isn't as well known in the west as some others.

There's different mechanics every game, but keeps the turn-based combat which a lot of people like (especially compared to where FF is going, even if personally I like both.) There's class systems, monster taming systems, skill trees, and nowadays the games dont have the ol' random encounters which is a good step.

Anyway, rpg tastes def differ, but i dont think of dragon quest as bland. There's just dq1 and 2 that i find a bit too traditional to play, myself.

And yeah, I'd like to see maybe 2-3 weapons on the character, one way or another. Just hopes tho, it wont bother me if it's only sword or something.

 

[TriggerX]

In Erdrick's defense, I could have swore the main protagonists of the series are capable of using axes, lances, whips, slingshots, shields, swords, claws, boomerangs, clubs, etc....
There is potentially alot of depth in that alone.

Unfortunately, I fail to see how any kind of turn based mechanic would be implemented into his character without slowing down game play too much. I feel like this where they need to try and capture the essence of the character and series since DQ has always stuck to those roots.

This is a Geno thread though, I'd rather hear how his chances are stacking up as of late.

 

[Teeb147]

In Erdrick's defense, I could have swore the main protagonists of the series are capable of using axes, lances, whips, slingshots, shields, swords, claws, boomerangs, clubs, etc....
There is potentially alot of depth in that alone.

Unfortunately, I fail to see how any kind of turn based mechanic would be implemented into his character without slowing down game play too much. I feel like this where they need to try and capture the essence of the character and series since DQ has always stuck to those roots.

This is a Geno thread though, I'd rather hear how his chances are stacking up as of late.

Yes erdrick is capable of using many weapons, and a lot more if we take it as a series.
I wouldnt expect a turn based mechanic. There's plenty of rpg elements possible tho. I can show you a post i made just as an example, if you'd like to see:

Erdrick Mechanics set - Leveling up and MP systems


In this post I'm going to talk about 2 possible mechanics that could work for a dragon quest hero. It's not a moveset, but instead a mechanics set. Both Leveling up and having Mana points could work entirely seperately, but I decided to put them together here.

MP:
Mana points are used by magical spells, and maybe even some other attacks (like in order to turn them into more powerful skills.)
In order to avoid players being passive by regenerating mana automatically, regaining mp could happen on attacks that are landed. (Bonus: on level ups too)

Alternate idea: Fast automatic mp regeneration.

Level UP:
The hero character would gain exp in order to level up and gain boosts, at least on attacks as well as higher max mp. (speed and knockback possibly too?)
Smash has all kinds of matches (long and short), which means the mechanic has to be limited in some way in order to prevent a character from being overpowered on longer matches, and allow shorter matches to be balanced as well. This can be done by either a low level/strength cap, or resetting levels each stock, or losing 1 level when losing a stock along with a cap.
Gaining exp to level up would be on attacks landed, in addition to some other actions. so that even matches with short stock counts would allow to level up.

Stats
Lvl1(base):
example tilt-attack: 10% dmg
max mp: 10

lvl2: 12% dmg & 12 max mp.
lvl3: 14% dmg & 14 max mp.
(etc)


Magic
(example) Sizz using 2mp. Zap using 4 mp. etc

MP regen per hit: 2 or 3 mp depending on which attack. And no regen on magic attacks.
extra -> mana regained on level ups: 4-5 mp

EXP
exp needed to level up: 100 (lvl2) -> 150 (lvl3) -> 200 (lvl4) -> etc
(note: that's for if exp points get back to 0 on a level up.)

Exp gained per attack or spell landed: 30 pts
on shield: 5 pts
on grab: 5 pts
on throw: 20 pts
on KO: 80 or 100 pts ?
on item pick-up: 5 pts ?


So, starting out, the hero would need about 4 normal hits for the first level up, but then that would increase by around 2 each time. (so getting to level 3 from lvl2 would take 5 or 6 clean hits). Other actions would give some exp too, but not as much as getting a clean hit or ko.

Everytime someone would get a normal hit, we could see either near it or near the hero's portrait how much exp and mp were gained, either with numbers or bars, or both.
It could feel like attacks in rpgs that give back some mp, as well as gaining something towards leveling up.

This is one way that the mechanics could work in smash, and there are a few ways to design it so that the character is balanced. I think my favorite is a combination of both a low enough level cap (anywhere between lvl 4 to 9 or 10), and losing a stock removing a level or 2. Resetting back to lvl 1 when losing a stock could be fine too if the character is designed with fast levelling in mind.

thanks for reading

That'll be my last bit on erdrick here for now, unless someone wants to keep talking about it. But yeah i think talking more about geno is a good idea ;p

 

[Firox]

Yeah, it would probably be good to shift a little away from Erdrick and back to Geno. Doesn't Erdrick have his own thread or something by now?

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah, it would probably be good to shift a little away from Erdrick and back to Geno. Doesn't Erdrick have his own thread or something by now?

Yup, for quite a long while. People can go talk there if they want. I definitely think it's better to focus on geno than bring up erdrick too often.

 

[SSGuy]

This is a Geno thread though, I'd rather hear how his chances are stacking up as of late.

The only thing of credible notion was Sabi mentioning water cooler talk involving Geno happened by a credible Nintendo Ambassador back near the beginning of November. Nothing else has come from this and everything else regarding Geno has been radio silent. He was involved as one of the Seven names listed of Square Enix characters but he was noted as 'don't take that one too seriously'

If we go by a pattern with how the figher pass is shaping up, it seems most likely that his Mii Costume will be returning to be paid for DLC but nothing else.

There is very little tangible evidence that is going in Geno's favor, but these kind of things can always be proven wrong. We are hoping for the best when it comes to a Square Enix character reveal.

 

[Datboigeno]

I dont know why youre saying defensive, just felt like mentioning. Most people say they're generic because of certain reasons. If you think the design is generic then there's plenty of people who'd feel differently, since toriyama's art is liked by a lot of people and isn't considered as generic as other anime. Personally I find cloud's design more bland. And then as far as having more personality, that's pretty easy to do for a dragon quest character. I like the images that Naoyatodo drew lately:

(image isn't working but you can click reply to see it, i think)

It came off as defensive because you assumed I didn't know much about DQ because I called some aspect of it generic. It's just personal taste. Erdrick's function is a blank slate for players to use in DQ3. He is by creation generic with little to no distinguishable personality characteristics. Anyone can draw fanart of a character and give them more personality. But within DQ he's pretty purposely one-note as was the intention in his design. Hence why having more unique characters with more personality like Geno or even slime would be preferable to me personally and a lot of people. Hence the overall resistance to wanting Erdrick as a new character.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If they're just doing it for promotion, they could put Slime or Luminary in Smash and shove Erdrick back in the box.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they're just doing it for promotion, they could put Slime or Luminary in Smash and shove Erdrick back in the box.

If they go for a Hero as a Class character, akin to Pokemon Trainer and Villager, they can just use Luminary and Eight, who would sell the best worldwide and overall, as the main face(at least for costumes 1 and 2 in the US/UK. Maybe the JP regions can have a different costume 1 or 2?), but keep Erdrick as a de facto alt. Like, if you're having various alts, Erdrick absolutely should be there. If you're not, maybe a reference to him at least? Even Slime could have his main helmet as an alt, depending how it would affect the moveset.

 

[Firox]

The only thing of credible notion was Sabi mentioning water cooler talk involving Geno happened by a credible Nintendo Ambassador back near the beginning of November. Nothing else has come from this and everything else regarding Geno has been radio silent. He was involved as one of the Seven names listed of Square Enix characters but he was noted as 'don't take that one too seriously'

If we go by a pattern with how the figher pass is shaping up, it seems most likely that his Mii Costume will be returning to be paid for DLC but nothing else.

There is very little tangible evidence that is going in Geno's favor, but these kind of things can always be proven wrong. We are hoping for the best when it comes to a Square Enix character reveal.

So basically, as far as hard evidence for Geno's inclusion, we got nothing. The lack of Mii costume thus far is a good sign, but that can change quickly depending on what we get for E3. As for any pattern with the fighter pass, there really isn't one yet as far as I can tell. We'll have to get the second and possibly third character before we can even start to connect the dots. Unfortunately, speculation is purely that until the next reveal. On the positive side, for Geno at least, I haven't seen any concrete evidence for any other characters getting in beyond people's general interpretation of cryptic tweets, internet whispers, and reading of the political gaming environment. It's still anyone's game and anyone's guess, so fingers crossed.

I suppose a more important philosophical question is, if Geno's mii costume does end up as his ultimate fate, should I bother re-buying it even if I already bought the one for Sm4sh? What message would it send Nintendo either way?

 

[Teeb147]

It came off as defensive because you assumed I didn't know much about DQ because I called some aspect of it generic. It's just personal taste. Erdrick's function is a blank slate for players to use in DQ3. He is by creation generic with little to no distinguishable personality characteristics. Anyone can draw fanart of a character and give them more personality. But within DQ he's pretty purposely one-note as was the intention in his design. Hence why having more unique characters with more personality like Geno or even slime would be preferable to me personally and a lot of people. Hence the overall resistance to wanting Erdrick as a new character.

It's not just fan art, erdrick was given personality in the official art. Back in the day people had to use their imagination because nes sprites dont carry as much as other art. Here's some official art that was used:

There's also different mangas that probably gave a lot more too. I havent read them myself.
And then erdrick has quite a bit of impact in Battle Victory, though it didn't release in the west.

 

[Firox]

It's not just fan art, erdrick was given personality in the official art. Back in the day people had to use their imagination because nes sprites dont carry as much as other art. Here's some official art that was used:

There's also different mangas that probably gave a lot more too. I havent read them myself.
And then erdrick has quite a bit of impact in Battle Victory, though it didn't release in the west.

Is it just me or does Erdrick look like kid Gohan wearing a sheet and a tiara? lol Then again, doesn't all of Toriyama's characters? They have like three different faces and three different body types: For men, we've got thin Roshi, fat buu and stupidly ripped. Even a newborn baby is build like a roided-out bodybuilder. Then the women come in two types: bean-shaped little girls and hour-glass adults. I mean, he makes it work but I still find it funny how recognizable his style is.

 

[Ovaltine]

So basically, as far as hard evidence for Geno's inclusion, we got nothing. The lack of Mii costume thus far is a good sign, but that can change quickly depending on what we get for E3. As for any pattern with the fighter pass, there really isn't one yet as far as I can tell. We'll have to get the second and possibly third character before we can even start to connect the dots. Unfortunately, speculation is purely that until the next reveal. On the positive side, for Geno at least, I haven't seen any concrete evidence for any other characters getting in beyond people's general interpretation of cryptic tweets, internet whispers, and reading of the political gaming environment. It's still anyone's game and anyone's guess, so fingers crossed.

I suppose a more important philosophical question is, if Geno's mii costume does end up as his ultimate fate, should I bother re-buying it even if I already bought the one for Sm4sh? What message would it send Nintendo either way?

It's hard to say. Buying the costume means complicity with what they're doing with him, but it also shows that Geno is profitable. It's a double-edged sword, and I wouldn't say one way or another whether it's objectively the best idea. I personally will be buying it again, but I will only magnify my support and outcry for Geno to come back, Smash or not. (I'd prefer outside of Smash, both because I think it'd do him more justice just prior to a Smash inclusion + less work for Sakurai.)

 

[Deleted member]

Who cares about some dumb legendary hero? The only legend you need to know about is the legend of WARIO!

 

[Teeb147]

Who cares about some dumb legendary hero? The only legend you need to know about is the legend of WARIO!View attachment 225737

I dont think the others know that it comes from Fortune Street ;p

"I guess Erdrick is the big cheese around these parts! I tip my hat to you, legendary hero!" -Mario
"I don’t believe for a second in this legendary hero. If he DID exist, he’d be rescuing me right now!" -Peach

Kinda weird that mario actually talks in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

I dont think the others know that it comes from Fortune Street ;p

"I guess Erdrick is the big cheese around these parts! I tip my hat to you, legendary hero!" -Mario
"I don’t believe for a second in this legendary hero. If he DID exist, he’d be rescuing me right now!" -Peach

Kinda weird that mario actually talks in the game.

They know now.

Wario's the best character.

 

[Teeb147]

They know now.

Wario's the best character.

What about Waluigi? He says he's the legendary hero.
Oh i see, youre a wario main

Since they did a japanese version with FF characters in it, I'd like to see one that has more nintendo and square enix characters.
Wouldnt it be cool to have geno playable in there too?

 

[Deleted member]

What about Waluigi? He says he's the legendary hero.
Oh i see, youre a wario main

Since they did a japanese version with FF characters in it, I'd like to see one that has more nintendo and square enix characters.
Wouldnt it be cool to have geno playable in there too?

Imagine Geno interacting with Wario

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

Wait Fatman replied what did he say basically?

 

[Ovaltine]

Imagine Geno interacting with Wario

"I guess the Booster family line continued, after all."

...

"Can we go back to them smelling more like wedding cake and less like dirty money?"

 

[GoodGrief741]

I mean it’s not like Joker’s coming from a massive franchise. I’d consider him a fan favorite. Persona while popular isn’t necessarily a juggernaut of sales.

I think you're mistaken in labeling Joker as a fan favorite, but if Joker qualifies as a fan favorite just because he was in a recent successful and acclaimed game, then our chances are screwed regardless.

Bruh. We've seen one Fighter Pass character so far. We can't exactly use that as a definitive indicator of what the rest of the DLC is gonna be like, can we?

I think we can. Especially given we've told that one character is emblematic of all to come.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Wait Fatman replied what did he say basically?

Imagine not being able to go back literally 1-2 pages to see for yourself

 

[Datboigeno]

I think you're mistaken in labeling Joker as a fan favorite, but if Joker qualifies as a fan favorite just because he was in a recent successful and acclaimed game, then our chances are screwed regardless.

I think we can. Especially given we've told that one character is emblematic of all to come.

I think the term "fan-favorite" can mean a lot of things.

 

[ShadowTheHedgehogZ]

Imagine not being able to go back literally 1-2 pages to see for yourself

Alright calm down it's just a joke

 

[Deleted member]

"I guess the Booster family line continued, after all."

...

"Can we go back to them smelling more like wedding cake and less like dirty money?"

"Nope! Wario doesn't think so! Now outta the way, doll face!"

 

[MattX20]

I think you're mistaken in labeling Joker as a fan favorite, but if Joker qualifies as a fan favorite just because he was in a recent successful and acclaimed game, then our chances are screwed regardless.

I think we can. Especially given we've told that one character is emblematic of all to come.

No, we really can't given that both Nintendo and Square have been leakbaiting a lot of people. People who're saying Sora is out from the recent French tweet that claimed Hashimoto is saying he's not coming are forgetting two things: he's jebaited people before like the company he's worked for and NDAs mean you have to say no to any questions over a character inclusion. The same logic holds true for Geno, and the only person who claimed "not to take Geno too seriously" was Vergeben's "source". And we all know how faulty his track record has been for DLC

 

[MissingGlitch]

No, we really can't given that both Nintendo and Square have been leakbaiting a lot of people. People who're saying Sora are out from the recent French tweet that claimed Hashimoto is saying he's not coming are forgetting two things: he's jebaited people before like the company he's worked for and NDAs mean you have to say no to any questions over a character inclusion. The same logic holds true for Geno, and the only person who claimed "not to take Geno too seriously" was Vergeben's "source". And we all know how faulty his track record has been for DLC

I honestly think every SE rep is still on the table for this reason alone. There has been so much confusion and conflicting reports on who and if there is a SE rep that It can still be anyone or no one at all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No, we really can't given that both Nintendo and Square have been leakbaiting a lot of people. People who're saying Sora are out from the recent French tweet that claimed Hashimoto is saying he's not coming are forgetting two things: he's jebaited people before like the company he's worked for and NDAs mean you have to say no to any questions over a character inclusion. The same logic holds true for Geno, and the only person who claimed "not to take Geno too seriously" was Vergeben's "source". And we all know how faulty his track record has been for DLC

You might notice that I didn't mention any leaks or Square Enix reps at all in the post you were replying to.

 

[DaxMasterix]

inb4 Kratos and Crash Bandicoot lmao

 

[Ovaltine]

inb4 Kratos and Crash Bandicoot lmao

Okay, but Kratos and Crash would both be absolutely legit, though.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Okay, but Kratos and Crash would both be absolutely legit, though.

I just can't belive that this wednesday is the Pokemon Direct and a few days later the upcoming Nintendo Direct for E3. Months ago I just wanted it to happen, now I'm here having November 1st flashbacks, oh gawd. I feel so impatient and bewildered.

PD: I expect'em to show those legendaries.

 

[MissingGlitch]

inb4 Kratos and Crash Bandicoot lmao

Sakurai needs to continue the Playstation All Stars pattern somehow.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai needs to continue the Playstation All Stars pattern somehow.

*Come E3*

Here at Nintendo we pride ourselves in getting only the best of the best! Here's the new Smash character:

Screen goes black

Subhuman starts playing

The sound of steps is heard, the camera pans up to reveal a young man in a coat, with long white hair, and suddenly

'Not in a million years'

DmC Dante joins the fight!

 

[EarlTamm]

Oh, by the way guys...

June 8th pic.twitter.com/og25TAYUP5

— Rawest Forest Reanimated (@RFReanimated) June 2, 2019

It will pretty cool to see such an iconic SMRPG related video reanimated. Kirbopher seems to be looking forward to it at least.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Oh, by the way guys...

June 8th pic.twitter.com/og25TAYUP5

— Rawest Forest Reanimated (@RFReanimated) June 2, 2019

It will pretty cool to see such an iconic SMRPG related video reanimated. Kirbopher seems to be looking forward to it at least.

God bless, absolute classic