Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ovaltine]

I think Banjo's more likely, but I also have my fingers crossed for Geno. There's definitely a difference between pessimism and realism, but the internet is so damn soft nowadays that you can't be either.

I flutter between ridiculous pessimism and realism, haha. It's a bit of a weird ride, this one.

That being said, I can't speak for everyone, but you are more than welcome here in my eyes. I know things are disheartening, but the Geno gang's got each other's backs, yeah?

 

[Dan]

Haha ok man. Just realize unless you have some big in at NOJ you really don’t know what’s realistic anymore than anyone else here.

I'm reading your comment, trying to come up with a response but am just laughing my ass off looking at your Reggie avatar.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Dan I hear you man. This thread has and will be resistant to certain ideas, but at least some of us agree with you, I guess.

I find it really hard to have a serious discussion with all them Reggies tho.

I'm still miffed that in Chris's newest vid, he put Makoto in the thumbnail as Joker's alt forgetting a rather key detail about the alt.

View attachment 203734

The alt has a ponytail while Makoto doesn't.

Best girl doesn't need a ponytail. She's in dammit.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Best girl doesn't need a ponytail. She's in dammit.

I mean.

I certainly wouldn't complain if she WAS in...

 

[Datboigeno]

I'm open to anything happening short of a few characters I have no interest for. After all, I haven't had a meltdown after Shovel Knight never got in as playable, so it's nice to have many options if one fails.

Yeah that’s the thing. Anything can happen. When DLC speculation began so many people thought the DLC was “obviously” going to be the few “noticeable” first party characters that weren’t spirits and then that theory was dropped. And then when the fake leak with Hyabusa and Doomguy came out so many people jumped on that bandwagon because it all added up for them and seemed realistic. And now? That’s been pretty much thrown in the waste bin. No one knows anything other than the people in charge of making DLC. Everything else is pure conjecture at this point. At least give it another reveal or two before we start saying what is or isn’t realistic.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah that’s the thing. Anything can happen. When SLC speculation began so many people thought the DLC was “obviously” going to be the few “noticeable” first party characters that weren’t spirits and then that theory was dropped. And then when the fake leak with Hyabusa and Doomguy came out so many people jumped on that bandwagon because it all added up for them and seemed realistic. And now? That’s been pretty much thrown in the waste bin. No one knows anything other than the people in charge of making DLC. Everything else is pure conjecture at this point. At least give it another reveal or two before we start saying what is or isn’t realistic.

Well put, couldn't have said it better myself.

Anyway, I'll be off now, farewell Reggies, tomorrow's back to normal.

 

[zippyskipy]

ok guys we had some good april japes. Had a few chuckles. But here's my next 100% real not a joke Geno, Luigi!

Spoiler

Heavily inspired by his first and BEST solo adventure, Mario is Missing, of course!

 

[Ze Diglett]

ok guys we had some good april japes. Had a few chuckles. But here's my next 100% real not a joke Geno, Luigi!

Spoiler

Heavily inspired by his first and BEST solo adventure, Mario is Missing, of course!

I never knew how much I wanted to see Weegeeno until today. Thank you, fellow Regginator.

 

[Ovaltine]

ok guys we had some good april japes. Had a few chuckles. But here's my next 100% real not a joke Geno, Luigi!

Spoiler

Heavily inspired by his first and BEST solo adventure, Mario is Missing, of course!

Zinith desperately needs this for the Boshi. Just saying.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Culex looks a little... different today...

 

[The Anigriffin]

I miss the Reggie apocalypse already.

 

[6eyondthegrave]

Persona 5S on 4.25?
https://twitter.com/wario64/status/1112956284989390850?s=21

 

[ZelDan]

Persona 5S's title reminds me of Dragon Quest XIS, and how that specific version is exclusive to the Switch

HMMMMMMMMM

 

[Deleted member]

I miss the Reggie apocalypse already.

Lmao me too. I am both happy with our regular avatars back and sad the Reggie apocalypse is finished.

ok guys we had some good april japes. Had a few chuckles. But here's my next 100% real not a joke Geno, Luigi!

Spoiler

Heavily inspired by his first and BEST solo adventure, Mario is Missing, of course!

Man, these are really well made

 

[Ovaltine]

https://smash.oatmealdome.me/popup_news/2025/en-US/

2.0.2 is arriving tonight. Normally, I wouldn't be too interested, given it's a small update, but since it's preceding a massive content update (3.0.0), I'm very interested in seeing what might get datamined. Hmm.

 

[Deleted member]

Given it's update 2.0.2, I don't think there will be anything too interesting.

Though I think update 3.0.0 will bring Stage Builder and Home Run Contest

 

[Ovaltine]

Given it's update 2.0.2, I don't think there will be anything too interesting.

Though I think update 3.0.0 will bring Stage Builder and Home Run Contest

I don't think so either, but given it's before 3.0.0, we may get some datamined info that is preloaded. After all, we got more certainty about HRC and Stage Builder with the last bump-up, given their files were updated for Ultimate's file system. There's a good chance there won't be anything interesting, given Nintendo is well-aware of the data dumping, but they've done dumber things before.

 

[Firox]

I know a lot of people hate hearing leaks through dataminers, but I'm so hungry for info I just don't care. Hit those mines, boys! High HOOOOOOO!

 

[Ovaltine]

I know a lot of people hate hearing leaks through dataminers, but I'm so hungry for info I just don't care. Hit those mines, boys! High HOOOOOOO!

Honestly, with Nintendo dropping the ball on keeping the hype train for Ultimate going, I can't blame anyone for wanting leaks and early information. Maybe I'm misremembering, but apart from a period or two, Smash 4's cycle was kept very consistent. The pace they're going at right now feels... odd.

 

[osby]

Honestly, with Nintendo dropping the ball on keeping the hype train for Ultimate going, I can't blame anyone for wanting leaks and early information. Maybe I'm misremembering, but apart from a period or two, Smash 4's cycle was kept very consistent. The pace they're going at right now feels... odd.

I thought there was a longer wait for Mewtwo between his announcement and release. It was announced in December and released in April. Joker is announced in December.

 

[Ovaltine]

I thought there was a longer wait for Mewtwo between his announcement and release. It was announced in December and released in April. Joker is announced in December.

Actually, thinking of it, PP is more of a Mewtwo situation, and we got Plant in... was it the beginning of February? I think it was, so we're two months away from Joker. Two characters in that time is more than what we got in Sm4sh's hype cycle.

Okay, yeah, woah, I stand corrected. Why does it feel so torturous then?

 

[EarlTamm]

Okay, yeah, woah, I stand corrected. Why does it feel so torturous then?

Because the base game hype cycle was shorter than the amount of time it took for us to get the Rosalina reveal in Smash 4.

 

[Ovaltine]

Because the base game hype cycle was shorter than the amount of time it took for us to get the Rosalina reveal in Smash 4.

It could also be because of the note everything left off on. November 1st was an awful Direct for me and I can't say that's an unpopular opinion. Plant was cool, but they weren't really a hype character. Since November 1st, the only really hype character we've gotten, IMO, is Joker, and we have no info on him yet. Compare that to Mewtwo being an early bonus, a character that is insanely hype, and a DLC cycle with no time-table already given to us. We were always on our toes. Right now, we have more of a time-table, a lot of 'deconfirmations' for a lot of fan favorites, and a base game that, while fine to me, is lacking in some aspects.

Thinking about it, I guess that's why it feels so slow to me. Sm4sh kept me quite busy for a while, and it helped that it had two versions (Wii U and 3DS, both of which I bought). Ultimate kinda just feels 2/3rds of the way done?

 

[EarlTamm]

Thinking about it, I guess that's why it feels so slow to me. Sm4sh kept me quite busy for a while, and it helped that it had two versions (Wii U and 3DS, both of which I bought). Ultimate kinda just feels 2/3rds of the way done?

I guess, but you are comparing two games to just one game. And many would argue that some of the modes is said games are not very good, among other things.

 

[Ovaltine]

I guess, but you are comparing two games to just one game. And many would argue that some of the modes is said games are not very good, among other things.

That's true, but in my personal opinion, I had a lot of fun with most modes except for Smash Tour. I just did some Smash Tour for the challenges and that was about it. At any rate, this is more of a subjective thing and my own perspective, and it's by no means anything objective. I know a lot of people were disappointed with Sm4sh, after all.

 

[Pokemaster73]

Personally, I think after Joker is revealed we won't really hear anything until E3. If you remember, for Smash 4 we got three DLC character reveals (Roy, Ryu, Lucas) during E3 2015. I think it's likely the team is working on a few characters at the same time. I don't expect three characters at E3, but I won't be surprised if we get at least two. If I had to guess it'd probably be a character like Banjo + someone else (hopefully Geno).

 

[Ovaltine]

Personally, I think after Joker is revealed we won't really hear anything until E3. If you remember, for Smash 4 we got three DLC character reveals (Roy, Ryu, Lucas) during E3 2015. I think it's likely the team is working on a few characters at the same time. I don't expect three characters at E3, but I won't be surprised if we get at least two. If I had to guess it'd probably be a character like Banjo + someone else (hopefully Geno).

Well, Roy and Lucas were veterans, so they didn't have to do that much more work for both of them. That said, I do think a two character reveal for E3 would make sense, if not some other kind of surprise. It's E3, so it's prime time to stir the hype, especially for Smash's core fan base. They're the ones who will really be tuning in to E3, unlike the more casual audience watching TGA.

 

[Firox]

You know, I was talking it over with some friends, and we seem to agree that ultimate, despite being arguably the best smash ever, seems to have had the shortest "honey moon" hype phase of any other. I agree that part of that might be due to the number of "de-confirmations" we've seen with respect to characters that we thought should have been shoe-ins from the ballot (GENO AND ISAAC). I think the other reason, and probably the most likely, is that so much of ultimate was derived from the Smash 4 engine that it kinda feels like a retread of what we've already been playing for the last four years. Don't get me wrong, Ultimate is more of its own game that I ever thought it would be with new mechanics, revamped moves, improved balancing and lots of new characters, but at the same time, it really does feel like Smash 4 Super Special Awesome Deluxe Edition...but missing game modes that we already had and taking a step backward with the online. Definitely not a port, but at this point, I feel that the game's hype is more dependent on characters and single play options than the gameplay itself.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, I was talking it over with some friends, and we seem to agree that ultimate, despite being arguably the best smash ever, seems to have had the shortest "honey moon" hype phase of any other. I agree that part of that might be due to the number of "de-confirmations" we've seen with respect to characters that we thought should have been shoe-ins from the ballot (GENO AND ISAAC). I think the other reason, and probably the most likely, is that so much of ultimate was derived from the Smash 4 engine that it kinda feels like a retread of what we've already been playing for the last four years. Don't get me wrong, Ultimate is more of its own game that I ever thought it would be with new mechanics, revamped moves, improved balancing and lots of new characters, but at the same time, it really does feel like Smash 4 Super Special Awesome Deluxe Edition...but missing game modes that we already had and taking a step backward with the online. Definitely not a port, but at this point, I feel that the game's hype is more dependent on characters and single play options than the gameplay itself.

I am pretty sure most Smash games derive from the previous engine in some ways.

 

[Firox]

I am pretty sure most Smash games derive from the previous engine in some ways.

Not exactly. OG smash, melee and brawl were each built from the ground up. Smash 4 cut some corners by using the base models and animations of Brawl, and Ultimate straight up ripped the V8 right out of 4, threw it in a new chassis and suped it up. Hence why Ultimate's development time was so surprisingly short. Technically, melee was made in two years as well, but when you consider the sheer difference in content between Melee and ultimate, it's apples and oranges.

The point I was trying to make is that Ultimate and 4 are by far the most similar iterations, which might explain why some people feel an over-familiarity with the game this time around.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Personally, I think after Joker is revealed we won't really hear anything until E3. If you remember, for Smash 4 we got three DLC character reveals (Roy, Ryu, Lucas) during E3 2015. I think it's likely the team is working on a few characters at the same time. I don't expect three characters at E3, but I won't be surprised if we get at least two. If I had to guess it'd probably be a character like Banjo + someone else (hopefully Geno).

Lucas was revealed in April of 2015 actually. He was released with Roy and Ryu but was announced a few months prior.

 

[Pokemaster73]

Lucas was revealed in April of 2015 actually. He was released with Roy and Ryu but was announced a few months prior.

Oh really? I must have misremembered then. Either way, I still consider a two character release for E3 somewhat likely,

 

[TheBeastHimself]

This is it, I can feel it. This month we're getting the second DLC character announced. I just hope it's soon rather than later.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like every month I say I think the 2nd DLC character will be revealed, it doesn't happen lmao

 

[6eyondthegrave]

I know a lot of people hate hearing leaks through dataminers, but I'm so hungry for info I just don't care. Hit those mines, boys! High HOOOOOOO!

I feel the same way lol

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It could also be because of the note everything left off on. November 1st was an awful Direct for me and I can't say that's an unpopular opinion. Plant was cool, but they weren't really a hype character. Since November 1st, the only really hype character we've gotten, IMO, is Joker, and we have no info on him yet. Compare that to Mewtwo being an early bonus, a character that is insanely hype, and a DLC cycle with no time-table already given to us. We were always on our toes. Right now, we have more of a time-table, a lot of 'deconfirmations' for a lot of fan favorites, and a base game that, while fine to me, is lacking in some aspects.

Thinking about it, I guess that's why it feels so slow to me. Sm4sh kept me quite busy for a while, and it helped that it had two versions (Wii U and 3DS, both of which I bought). Ultimate kinda just feels 2/3rds of the way done?

Yeah, no I really don't get the whole dropped the ball on hype commentary when Nintendo and Sakurai haven't done anything wrong. They gave an accelerated hype cycle and constantly supported the game in pre-release and have already been more consistent in post game content. Big fixes, balances, Piranha Plant, the addition of multiplayer to Spirit battles, and the constant Spirit updates. They've done nothing but handle the overall situation extremely well.

If there's any lack of hype, I absolutely blame the fan base for stirring expectations and making fan characters the only way to produce hype. The November Direct went exactly as expected even if it was disappointing. I can't stress how honest Sakurai was with us and how much the whole Grinch era was a moment of relative cognitive dissonance for the community. Everything had been set up for that Direct to go exactly as it did, and I still feel like a lot of fans will not let it go. I'm not speaking to you directly here, but it's definitely something I've noticed in the community. Honestly, any salt I had about deconfirmations went away the moment that I got my copy and spent almost 10 straight hours playing the game unlocking characters. I do understand the AT issue a little more since that does make them less likely DLC candidates.

And while I agree that there are some slightly more lacking aspects, I think the approach of developing a base game that was so focused on characters and stages then gives them the room to expand with modes later on and adds the most inherent variety to the game up front. Things like Stage Builder, Home Run Contest, Boss Battles, and Break the Targets may be fun modes that add variety to the game, but I'd be hard pressed to say that they should be a priority over characters and stages.

Smash 4 definitely benefited from having two games to people busy though. It kept the cycle alive for longer when you had two games that had staggered releases. Mewtwo was obviously hype for being a fan favorite, but I'd argue that a significant portion of "his hype" came from the fact he confirmed DLC and meant it wasn't the end. Compare that to Ultimate where we all were completely certain there would be DLC and they were far more upfront with it. I'd also argue Smash for Wii U has just some of the most genuinely annoying and unfun content in the series despite the variety of modes in the game. I appreciated the variety at the time, but looking back on it, I really don't miss much of what's missing in Ultimate.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Yeah, no I really don't get the whole dropped the ball on hype commentary when Nintendo and Sakurai haven't done anything wrong. They gave an accelerated hype cycle and constantly supported the game in pre-release and have already been more consistent in post game content. Big fixes, balances, Piranha Plant, the addition of multiplayer to Spirit battles, and the constant Spirit updates. They've done nothing but handle the overall situation extremely well.

If there's any lack of hype, I absolutely blame the fan base for stirring expectations and making fan characters the only way to produce hype. The November Direct went exactly as expected even if it was disappointing. I can't stress how honest Sakurai was with us and how much the whole Grinch era was a moment of relative cognitive dissonance for the community. Everything had been set up for that Direct to go exactly as it did, and I still feel like a lot of fans will not let it go. I'm not speaking to you directly here, but it's definitely something I've noticed in the community. Honestly, any salt I had about deconfirmations went away the moment that I got my copy and spent almost 10 straight hours playing the game unlocking characters. I do understand the AT issue a little more since that does make them less likely DLC candidates.

And while I agree that there are some slightly more lacking aspects, I think the approach of developing a base game that was so focused on characters and stages then gives them the room to expand with modes later on and adds the most inherent variety to the game up front. Things like Stage Builder, Home Run Contest, Boss Battles, and Break the Targets may be fun modes that add variety to the game, but I'd be hard pressed to say that they should be a priority over characters and stages.

Smash 4 definitely benefited from having two games to people busy though. It kept the cycle alive for longer when you had two games that had staggered releases. Mewtwo was obviously hype for being a fan favorite, but I'd argue that a significant portion of "his hype" came from the fact he confirmed DLC and meant it wasn't the end. Compare that to Ultimate where we all were completely certain there would be DLC and they were far more upfront with it. I'd also argue Smash for Wii U has just some of the most genuinely annoying and unfun content in the series despite the variety of modes in the game. I appreciated the variety at the time, but looking back on it, I really don't miss much of what's missing in Ultimate.

I personally found Ultimate's announcement of DLC to be far more hype than Sm4sh's because with Ultimate, Sakurai flat out said "y'all are getting DLC". With Sm4sh, Sakurai just said "Mewtwo is a downloadable bonus fighter for having both versions of the game", I don't think there was ever a formal announcement that there'd be DLC.

I agree with a lot of the points you bring up. Most notably, Sakurai was very honest with fans. While I personally wish the order of character reveals was switched around, that's only because of my personal biases. I found Isabelle, Incineroar, and Ken to be "meh" announcements, but who knows, other people out there might've went full on Etika.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Yeah, no I really don't get the whole dropped the ball on hype commentary when Nintendo and Sakurai haven't done anything wrong. They gave an accelerated hype cycle and constantly supported the game in pre-release and have already been more consistent in post game content. Big fixes, balances, Piranha Plant, the addition of multiplayer to Spirit battles, and the constant Spirit updates. They've done nothing but handle the overall situation extremely well.

If there's any lack of hype, I absolutely blame the fan base for stirring expectations and making fan characters the only way to produce hype. The November Direct went exactly as expected even if it was disappointing. I can't stress how honest Sakurai was with us and how much the whole Grinch era was a moment of relative cognitive dissonance for the community. Everything had been set up for that Direct to go exactly as it did, and I still feel like a lot of fans will not let it go. I'm not speaking to you directly here, but it's definitely something I've noticed in the community. Honestly, any salt I had about deconfirmations went away the moment that I got my copy and spent almost 10 straight hours playing the game unlocking characters. I do understand the AT issue a little more since that does make them less likely DLC candidates.

And while I agree that there are some slightly more lacking aspects, I think the approach of developing a base game that was so focused on characters and stages then gives them the room to expand with modes later on and adds the most inherent variety to the game up front. Things like Stage Builder, Home Run Contest, Boss Battles, and Break the Targets may be fun modes that add variety to the game, but I'd be hard pressed to say that they should be a priority over characters and stages.

Smash 4 definitely benefited from having two games to people busy though. It kept the cycle alive for longer when you had two games that had staggered releases. Mewtwo was obviously hype for being a fan favorite, but I'd argue that a significant portion of "his hype" came from the fact he confirmed DLC and meant it wasn't the end. Compare that to Ultimate where we all were completely certain there would be DLC and they were far more upfront with it. I'd also argue Smash for Wii U has just some of the most genuinely annoying and unfun content in the series despite the variety of modes in the game. I appreciated the variety at the time, but looking back on it, I really don't miss much of what's missing in Ultimate.

While I can agree that Ultimate's a fantastic game and its side content is way better than Smash 4's ever was (even if it could use some variety - you can only get so much mileage out of fighting CPUs over and over, take it from me), I wouldn't exactly call that final Direct handling things well. They saved basically every piece of bad news for that one direct - Kencineroar box theory, literally the least interesting possible outcome for the base roster, being true, no Stadium modes bar Multi-Man, tons of particularly painful AT deconfirmations followed by a plant, etc - which is the opposite of good PR. They could've easily sprinkled some of that unfortunate info in some of the previous Directs to soften the blow... but they didn't. Kudos to Sakurai and Nintendo for making a great game and all that, but frankly, I think the only way I wouldn't have been disappointed by that Direct is if I had went in actively expecting to be disappointed.

 

[Firox]

They've done nothing but handle the overall situation extremely well.

They've handled the game in a reasonable fashion. "Extremely well" seems a bit of an overstatement. While I agree that there were many modes that seemed pointless and unfun in Smash 4, there were things like Smash Run that I thought were an absolute blast that I hope get patched into Ultimate at some point in the near future.

As of now, Ultimate is extremely bare-bones. In terms of characters and gameplay, the game is definitely unmatched, but in terms of pretty much everything else, it's severely lacking. Let's look at the online. I'd have to say that Smash 4 had the best format we've seen to date. There was "For fun" to keep the casuals happy with items and FFA, and then there was "For Glory" with 1v1 and no items to appease the competitive crowd. Now, granted, I much prefer Ultimate's ability to customize the rulesets and not be stuck with FD stages only with 2 stocks and 3 minutes. I despised that format because the timer was waaaay too short and often resulted in a crapload of sudden deaths (in ultimate, I've only ever experienced 4 out of hundreds of battles), but I digress. My greatest issue with Ultimate's online is the massive pain in the butt it is to play with friends in any way, shape or form. You can only play arenas with one person per switch, so if you had hoped to have yourself and a friend/sibling/spouse/etc. play local while connecting to a pair of players elsewhere, you're outta luck. This wasn't the case in Smash 4. My brother and I could just make a room and have our cousins jump in from their house and we could play 2v2s etc. No more. Then we have Quickplay. I think we're all aware of the issues with this but to name a few: Can't switch characters without dropping the opponent, can't turn off GSP if you want to go full casual and inconsistent matchmaking.

As far as single player modes, sorry but World of Light is a monotonous slog of uninspired AI battles. Anyone who's played subspace emissary knows that ain't a story mode. It's better than nothing, but it is what it is. The whole spirits mechanic is overrated and by the time you have all the most uber spirits to equip, WoL has already long since been beaten into submission.

Now, don't get me wrong, the fans are very much to blame if we get our hopes too high, but holy crap was the Grinch leak a low blow. I mean, it was a fairly well-crafted hoax with all kinds of planted rumors and such, literally promising our wildest dreams.....and then we got Ken...and Incineroar....and Piranha Plant....the end. It was such a drastic plunge in expectations, I could hardly believe it. It was like being told we were going to Disneyland, but then getting dropped off in skid row (all due respect to their fans).

Like I said, as far as characters and gameplay goes, Ultimate is a slam dunk, but it's far from perfect even by the standards of previous iterations. And the reason why I say that characters are the primary source of hype is because they are the ones that rake in the casuals. There are so many people that have yet to get into Smash, but when they see characters like Cloud or Bayonetta or Joker, they start to come out of the woodwork. "Hey, maybe I'll finally break down and buy a switch to play Smash." I know this because I have at least two friends that did just that. They refused to buy anything Nintendo OR smash until that one favorite character of theirs got a sexy reveal trailer and BAM! New converts brought into the fold. Which brings me to the single player options.

While I personally don't really stress too much about it, there are tons of people that aren't fixated on the competitive/online aspect of smash. They base their purchase on how much content there is BESIDES just characters. In that regard, Ultimate has some serious room to grow. I know how much work Sakurai has put in thus far, but if we don't get any legitimately cool modes patched in later on, we'll be seeing a sharp decline in all but the usual staunch smash fans playing by the end of the year. Not saying I really care either way who's playing, but it's just a prediction.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I think Sakurai and his team created very high expectations when the game was announced as "Ultimate" and featured Ridley/K. Rool because then everyone went ape **** expecting all these fan favorites to be announced. But looking back at things, I don't think Sakurai nor his team did anything wrong. The guy flat out said "don't expect too many new challengers" at E3 2018 and what does everyone do? Expect too many new challengers. I believed the box theory before the Grinch leak came out because I took Sakurai's word and honestly, I should have continued to do so instead of allowing a leak to give me false hope. It's so ridiculous a lot of us believed that 6 or so characters would actually be announced on the same day lmao.

To me, the main issue with the Smash community is that people have grown too attached to the idea that if your favorite character is popular during speculation, or popular for a long period of time, they have a huge chance which isn't always the case (I'm so sorry Isaac fans).