Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

About spirits, I don't see why they would deconfirm when they decided to make the Pit (Original) spirit, the Pikachu (Let's Go), and even the Kaptain K Rool and Super Sonic spirits. If spirits did deconfirm, this implies that there was a chance to have Pit (Original), Pikachu (Let's Go), Kaptain K Rool, and Super Sonic all as playable characters, along with Pit, Pikachu, King K Rool, and Sonic. Are people really going to think they had a chance of making those characters playable? Exactly. It's really silly seeing people who think spirits are deconfirmation

 

[bardbowman]

1) People misinterpreting Reggie's words
2) People thinking that such a modern character like Joker, who's a big fan favorite among various people, including Sakurai himself, BTFOs Geno's chances
And probably more idk

I'd add to that...
3) Everyone expecting the SE character to be revealed first, but are now realizing it's gonna be a long hard wait before we get any news on that front.
4) 1-3 bringing on a level of pessimism that is causing oldies too look back on this and think "Hm, I should probably move on with my life. I'm too old for this."

 

[The Anigriffin]

About spirits, I don't see why they would deconfirm when they decided to make the Pit (Original) spirit, the Pikachu (Let's Go), and even the Kaptain K Rool and Super Sonic spirits. If spirits did deconfirm, this implies that there was a chance to have Pit (Original), Pikachu (Let's Go), Kaptain K Rool, and Super Sonic all as playable characters, along with Pit, Pikachu, King K Rool, and Sonic. Are people really going to think they had a chance of making those characters playable? Exactly. It's really silly seeing people who think spirits are deconfirmation

People just want to be right as well as thinking everything is black and white. With the Grinch leak you didn’t see too many that were in the middle, you had to be either team real or team fake. People need to learn that grey areas are everywhere and that imposing personal fan rules on others just makes you look like an idiot.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Regarding my man Fatmanonice 's statements from yesterday, I get where he's coming from.

The reason this thread was moving so fast the past few weeks was because the SE DLC character was basically "guaranteed" to be the first one revealed (per Vergeben). Now that we know SE isn't first, this is going to take a while and I certainly won't be checking this thread nearly as much as I had previously. We can't torture ourselves and live in this thread now that we know that even if Geno is in, it's going to be in the 2nd half of 2019. It's very likely that no new information is going to come out regarding this character for at minimum 6-7 months. Coming in here continuing to beat the same discussions/arguments we've been having for the past 300 pages is mostly a waste and just exhausting. I plan on just grinding Ultimate because it's fun as hell and will make the wait for news so much easier.

That being said, I still love Geno's chances. Him being a red herring or leakbait is the dumbest thing I've ever heard so if that's the best excuse, I'm not buying it. Using one of the top 3 most requested characters in the game as leakbait makes no sense for many reasons, the biggest two being:

- Why would they pass around the name of a mega-popular (within the context of smash fan-demand) character as leakbait? His name couldn't possibly alert the companies to any fake leakers because 60% of leaks going around on the internet contain Geno, so that's not going to exactly help them narrow down who is leaking information

- Building off the first point, passing around a massively fan demanded character like Geno only to bait and switch and give us someone like ****ing Erdrick or any other DQ character who has never been asked for in any meaningful cotnext is going to get them nothing but backlash. The reason Nintendo was so upset about the Grinch leak was because it built up our expectations to an incredibly unrealistic level and made it so the last direct had no chance to NOT be disappointing. Passing around Geno's name only for it to be leakbait is straight up shooting themselves in the foot

 

[Paul Cesar]

You don't make a party member from a 20+ year old spin off Mario game a "legendary" spirit unless you're aware that this character is a big deal for Smash fans. Geno has a LOT going for him. More than any other highly requested character still left after Ridley and K. Rool. Be patient. The odds are still good and I strongly believe we'll eventually get him. I don't know if sooner or later, but eventually. Some things are inevitable and just can't be ignored. Remember: Ridley and K. Rool are finally in.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't make a party member from a 20+ year old spin off Mario game a "legendary" spirit unless you're aware that this character is a big deal for Smash fans. Geno has a LOT going for him. More than any other highly requested character still left after Ridley and K. Rool. Be patient. The odds are still good and I strongly believe we'll eventually get him. I don't know if sooner or later, but eventually. Some things are inevitable and just can't be ignored. Remember: Ridley and K. Rool are finally in.

And you also don't use a Mario side character from a 22 year old game who so many people, including the creator of the game himself, want in Smash as a Square Enix leak bait

 

[Fatmanonice]

As someone who has been around a while and remember everything you did for the community, I will say that without people like you who have been around for a long time, new fans don’t get the full story. The reason why Geno is still so popular today is because people like you never gave up and kept the dream alive.

I’ll never tell someone to not look out for their mental well-being, and if you need time away, I’ll back you 1000%, but it’s people like you who keep threads like this alive. I guarantee you that you make more of an impact on people than you even know, which means if you need to walk away, everyone will be on board.

I hope everything is okay with you. If you need an ear, shoot me a message. Like I said, I support you either way.

I mean... I'm just processing a lot. I respect the hell out of guys like you, psycho, KCchief, etc that have supported not only this fanbase but me over the years. I'm just trying to not get really, really depressed because I'm being hit with a lot at once:

-This narrative that I've seen here and elsewhere that I'm unreliable and a liar despite me backing up my statements and noting when things are my own speculation. I'm being seen as a crazy old man despite my statements on the insider front not even being my own and that cuts deep. Basically my worst fears on these forums are being realized.

-I'm a little disillusioned with Smash Ultimate. Despite all the content, it's still currently only 4 new stages and 5 completely new characters and, 14 months from now, this will still be less than the original N64 game. Gameplay wise, it's still a little too similar to Smash 4 but it's faster. The characters I played in Smash 4 largely feel the same aside from some tweaks.

-I'm 31 and I have no business seriously competing anymore. I was mostly surrounded by high schoolers and college students in Smash 4 to begin with and the age gap continues to grow. I love this series but it's simply inappropriate to for me to participate in live tournaments anymore.

-Coming to terms with the fact that I'm past my prime and wasn't able to seriously compete with Geno. I wanted to be a Geno main and represent him at tournaments as far back as when I was 12 but a 31 year old doing this is a little too on the nose. It's about as subtle as inviting someone to **** your wife. I joke that I faceplant into the Boomer stereotype but I certainly don't want to be a parade float for it.

-The influx of people coming in here to either tell us that Geno's not coming or any above rock bottom is too optimistic. Like, we get it... As I bemoaned the other week, aside from maybe Toad and Dixie, we know disappointment more than any other Smash fanbase. It's in our DNA and a large part of the narrative. The fact that people are going out of their way to remind us of this, even making brand new accounts and bouncing, flat out sucks. We're continuously on the defensive in this thread and it's exhausting because no matter what you say, people won't care. It's incredibly rude but, again, people don't care. They're not invested. They just want to get their jabs in and bounce so it all circles back to being moot.

-Even looking at posts from long standing Ridley and K. Rool fans, I can see twinges of regret, not for the character itself but for how much time they spent advocating for them. Dedicating years of their lives for something that's just kind of neat in the end and that's about it. Your favorite character is now playable in one game and... That's it. People can argue it's the journey not the destination but I'm seeing a lot of people just flat out leave and the handful of people who have stuck around are barely involved anymore. Once a character gets in, what do you do then? Like I said, I'm now too old to compete so what would my purpose in the Smash community even be anymore? I think a lot of leading people in character fanbases have struggled with this and, again, just opt out to leave instead of figuratively regularly revisiting their old high school after they graduated. Like I said yesterday, if you aren't suit and tie at a certain point, you should probably **** off and invest in something else.

So, I think that covers everything. Again, I've been here forever so I feel like you all had the right to know because I see a lot of people are genuinely distressed by it. I'm touched you all care to the degree that you do. As a community that's awesome and you all are supreme lads and comrades but I'll probably be less involved from this point forward. Not totally pulling out and not trying to figure out which razor blades compliment which bath bombs but struggling with determining the next step and my place in the overarching Smash community beyond Geno.

 

[TriggerX]

I'm just kind of mentally exhausted. Smash is out and the big supposed pay off of the first DLC being a Square Enix character that was talked up since August was a bust. Because of the release schedule of the DLC of this game, the last one probably won't be announced until November or December of next year. Four left. Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter. I think I feel myself ageing just thinking about it... I probably need to back off for awhile so I can at least enjoy the game. You all probably should too. It's going to be a long wait.

I think the fact that this information has been out since August is the real reason we did not get a square character first. Putting that information out there probably just changed the outcome.

Up to this point, Verge had a lot of credibility in his corner. As a company that wants to keep information like this underwraps, the first thing I would do is show those who are watching the leaks that the info they are obtaining isnt accurate as they had hoped.

Maybe thats just me being paranoid, but as far as Im concerned, DLC probably hadnt been started by then. So potentially it gave them enough time to shuffle the release order.

Overall as far as the game goes, I enjoy the physics a bit more than the previous titles. However, I would have liked more characters over wasting time developing the whole story and spirit concept. I wish they had just focused on multiplayer in general. 2 years down the road Im not going to playing the story, or collecting stickers/spirits.

 

[link2702]

I’ve been here since the brawl days. I can assure everyone I ain’t dropping my support.


I’ve considered myself a bit more cautious about his chances, and I’ve tried to caution folks about getting too confident about his chances, but make no mistake I’ll be supporting him for smash till the day I’m dead.

 

[ShinyReshiram]

The reason this thread was moving so fast the past few weeks was because the SE DLC character was basically "guaranteed" to be the first one revealed (per Vergeben). Now that we know SE isn't first, this is going to take a while and I certainly won't be checking this thread nearly as much as I had previously. We can't torture ourselves and live in this thread now that we know that even if Geno is in, it's going to be in the 2nd half of 2019. It's very likely that no new information is going to come out regarding this character for at minimum 6-7 months. Coming in here continuing to beat the same discussions/arguments we've been having for the past 300 pages is mostly a waste and just exhausting. I plan on just grinding Ultimate because it's fun as hell and will make the wait for news so much easier.

Pretty much this. I see no point in discussing the same stuff like licensing issues and m-muh Sora all over again -- basically we did it for like maybe twice and even more. I guess we can spark new speculations when we get some delicious info from future patches, but that's pretty much it. It's still the same rule as before: no one knows the DLC.

 

[link2702]

Also this idea that you should just quit competing in tournaments when you hit 30 is stupid. Are you still having fun competing? If so then don’t give a **** about how much older you are. So what if you’re not a household name like m2k, esam, hungrybox, fatality, w/e, the whole point is if you enjoy it. No you probably shouldn’t dedicate your *entire* life to it, but if you’re still finding it enjoyable keep doing it on the side.

If you’ve stopped competing because you don’t find it fun anymore, or if your “only” reason was because you wanted to eventually play geno in tournaments and make yourself famous as the “best” geno main(which I find it hard to believe that this would be anyone’s only purpose for it), then sure maybe you should probably quit competing in tournaments.

But other than that, if you still enjoy it keep going.

 

[FCZHornet]

I mean... I'm just processing a lot. I respect the hell out of guys like you, psycho, KCchief, etc that have supported not only this fanbase but me over the years. I'm just trying to not get really, really depressed because I'm being hit with a lot at once:

-This narrative that I've seen here and elsewhere that I'm unreliable and a liar despite me backing up my statements and noting when things are my own speculation. I'm being seen as a crazy old man despite my statements on the insider front not even being my own and that cuts deep. Basically my worst fears on these forums are being realized.

-I'm a little disillusioned with Smash Ultimate. Despite all the content, it's still currently only 4 new stages and 5 completely new characters and, 14 months from now, this will still be less than the original N64 game. Gameplay wise, it's still a little too similar to Smash 4 but it's faster. The characters I played in Smash 4 largely feel the same aside from some tweaks.

-I'm 31 and I have no business seriously competing anymore. I was mostly surrounded by high schoolers and college students in Smash 4 to begin with and the age gap continues to grow. I love this series but it's simply inappropriate to for me to participate in live tournaments anymore.

-Coming to terms with the fact that I'm past my prime and wasn't able to seriously compete with Geno. I wanted to be a Geno main and represent him at tournaments as far back as when I was 12 but a 31 year old doing this is a little too on the nose. It's about as subtle as inviting someone to **** your wife. I joke that I faceplant into the Boomer stereotype but I certainly don't want to be a parade float for it.

-The influx of people coming in here to either tell us that Geno's not coming or any above rock bottom is too optimistic. Like, we get it... As I bemoaned the other week, aside from maybe Toad and Dixie, we know disappointment more than any other Smash fanbase. It's in our DNA and a large part of the narrative. The fact that people are going out of their way to remind us of this, even making brand new accounts and bouncing, flat out sucks. We're continuously on the defensive in this thread and it's exhausting because no matter what you say, people won't care. It's incredibly rude but, again, people don't care. They're not invested. They just want to get their jabs in and bounce so it all circles back to being moot.

-Even looking at posts from long standing Ridley and K. Rool fans, I can see twinges of regret, not for the character itself but for how much time they spent advocating for them. Dedicating years of their lives for something that's just kind of neat in the end and that's about it. Your favorite character is now playable in one game and... That's it. People can argue it's the journey not the destination but I'm seeing a lot of people just flat out leave and the handful of people who have stuck around are barely involved anymore. Once a character gets in, what do you do then? Like I said, I'm now too old to compete so what would my purpose in the Smash community even be anymore? I think a lot of leading people in character fanbases have struggled with this and, again, just opt out to leave instead of figuratively regularly revisiting their old high school after they graduated. Like I said yesterday, if you aren't suit and tie at a certain point, you should probably **** off and invest in something else.

So, I think that covers everything. Again, I've been here forever so I feel like you all had the right to know because I see a lot of people are genuinely distressed by it. I'm touched you all care to the degree that you do. As a community that's awesome and you all are supreme lads and comrades but I'll probably be less involved from this point forward. Not totally pulling out and not trying to figure out which razor blades compliment which bath bombs but struggling with determining the next step and my place in the overarching Smash community beyond Geno.

I totally hear you on being too old to compete. I used to compete very extensively in my 20’s but now if I enter a smash bracket, it’s a vastly younger crowd and my hands are getting slow. Thus over the last few years I’ve relagated to TO duties, organizing, etc. “gamer dad” type stuff. I was hoping Geno would be main roster to make an impassioned return to competitive, but it looks like that’s up in the air. I’m still hopeful though! Hang in there people.

 

[Ovaltine]

This narrative that I've seen here and elsewhere that I'm unreliable and a liar despite me backing up my statements and noting when things are my own speculation. I'm being seen as a crazy old man despite my statements on the insider front not even being my own and that cuts deep. Basically my worst fears on these forums are being realized.

I have to step in say something in regards to this:

Passion for a character absolutely does not make you a crazy old man, and you've come in with realism and, while with hope and optimism, you've not behaved as though Geno is a lock or some outwardly ridiculous statement like that. Let's be real here: a lot of us have a lot of adoration for this character. The people who are bashing you for your insight and hopes are revolting if they're going to attack you over something so pure and honest, something from the heart.

I don't like being personal, but I feel this might help to at least find some common ground? I'm not a younger person by any means. I'm 26 years old, and I don't really have much going for me in my life. I'm disabled and unable to work. I'm only able to stay holed up in my house. My free time is spent on my designing and graphic freelancing, as well as household care and... well, my personal hobbies. I have a downright pathetic existence, and I'm not saying that as to draw pity to me. I'm saying it as someone who genuinely feels disillusioned with life as a whole and doesn't have much of a mark to leave on the world. You have more beyond Smashboards, and the words of some nobodies on the internet shouldn't matter to you in the grand scheme of things. They're insignificant. They may as well be ants to you. It's blunt, but it comes from a very freaking personal place in my life to say that you have to discard needless accusations and whining from people who don't matter in the end.

Every little thing in life is something that shouldn't be taken for granted. Whether it's something as small as your love for a character in a game or something as massive as how you'll be able to survive the next week in terms of financial situation for food, it's all a part of the experience. Do what's best for you in the end, and, quite bluntly, **** whatever anyone else has to say about it. Their burdens are not for you to bear.

If you ever need someone to talk to, my lines are open, okay? I'll follow you so my PM inbox is open for you. I know how it feels to have your passions be a gateway into more intimate details of your life, and how it can shift your perspective into a negative zone. It's... rough. It's really, really rough, and I'm tearing up just writing this. Seeing all of these responses from you has touched my heart. When I signed up here, I didn't think I'd be getting into stuff like this, but I figured I'd extend my olive branch to you. Have a wonderful day today, and keep your chin up with whatever life throws at you, okay? It's cliche, I know, but you are the one in control of your own destiny, and I have faith that you will be the best you that you can be.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Huh...So Game Theory’s latest video went into a discussion (in part) on the toxic fanbase(s) of Smash, and used the Geno base as the generalized scapegoat.

I know every fanbase has got its fair share of bad eggs, but I guess I always felt we generally were a more chill group of fans than ones you’d find in other corners of the internet. So it surprised me that we kinda got singled out in that way.

*shrug*, or maybe I’m just ignorant.

Well ****; now I'm kinda glad I didn't watch it. Does literally EVERYONE have to be fighting against us?

Do you think someone could reach out to matpat and explain the harm this does to a largely innocent fanbase? Even just a tweet of him clarifying he generalized would be enough for me, I'm really not asking too much of him.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Well ****; now I'm kinda glad I didn't watch it. Does literally EVERYONE have to be fighting against us?

Do you think someone could reach out to matpat and explain the harm this does to a largely innocent fanbase? Even just a tweet of him clarifying he generalized would be enough for me, I'm really not asking too much of him.

To be fair, Matpat would probably try to finagle that into more "toxicity." A lot of his content just lacks proper research and he's not known for taking criticism well. I don't think he's a bad person, just sorta... Lost. I could be wrong though and hope I am.

 

[bardbowman]

Well ****; now I'm kinda glad I didn't watch it. Does literally EVERYONE have to be fighting against us?

Do you think someone could reach out to matpat and explain the harm this does to a largely innocent fanbase? Even just a tweet of him clarifying he generalized would be enough for me, I'm really not asking too much of him.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact he’s a Waluigi supporter? I certainly don’t want to generalize, but maybe that gives him some personal bias against other Mario reps.

He also implied we were all raging over the fact that he only got in as a mii costume in Smash 4...Except the vast majority of fans I talked to about it were super hyped about that, since it finally got his foot in the Smash door. *longsigh*

 

[Kektendo]

Don’t forget Isaac. I just really hope nintendo is at least thinking about the prospect of adding a golden sun rep especially if there is a future golden sun game for the Nintendo switch on the way. In the meantime I’m supporting golden sun getting revived and Isaac getting in as dlc in a possible wave 2 or 1 as a character on the roster by competing as literally him in the smash pro scene. I even took 1st place at my locals yesterday!View attachment 182418View attachment 182419

Late reply (I'm trying to catch up on pages), but that is a great cosplay (pretty accurate). I actually made a Geno cosplay for Halloween. Here are some pics:
https://m.imgur.com/cz2NrqW
https://m.imgur.com/A9wdaDO

 

[The Anigriffin]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact he’s a Waluigi supporter? I certainly don’t want to generalize, but maybe that gives him some personal bias against other Mario reps.

He also implied we were all raging over the fact that he only got in as a mii costume in Smash 4...Except the vast majority of fans I talked to about it were super hyped about that, since it finally got his foot in the Smash door. *longsigh*

Yep... Doesn't do his research confirmed... *audible sigh*

 

[ARandomZoomer]

To be honest the whole "x fanbase shtick is toxic" is pretty stupid imo. Are there toxic people out there? Yes. Can fandoms have toxic people? Also yes. However to completely disregard the good parts of a fandom and to act as the it's one single minded destructive organism is the equivalent tossing out an entire thing of lasagna just because the edges are burnt.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

*Sees the last 6 pages*

Ok go seriously **** yourself Square. **** you.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Wow; the comment's to this video alone are really pissing me off. I'd love to give Matpat the benefit of the doubt; but someone really ought to get him to backtrack on this ****ing video. Can someone concisely convey this point to him?

 

[Deleted member]

I swear every time I leave a comment on a Smash related vid someone replies to me with "He is never going to happen, get over it" or "you Geno fans are in denial." It's so annoying. That's why this site is just amazing, there are so many people I can relate to, and sorry about being personal, but this feels like a sanctuary, or rather, is a sanctuary. Geno fans aren't toxic. There may be some toxic people, but we don't spread much negativity. All we want is for Geno to be in, because we love Super Mario RPG and we love Geno, and so does Sakurai. A lot of people also call us bandwagoners. This isn't at all the case. We express our love of the game and the character. We get a lot of hate outside this site, so being a Geno fan isn't easy lol, and this proves even further that we aren't bandwagoners (although there isn't any need to prove that we aren't).

It just pisses me off how much hate Geno and his fans get, and then be called toxic by some idiot who thinks Sans is Ness

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

Ok,can someone explain to me what MatPat AKA the idiot did this time?

 

[JarBear]

I do hope Geno will be the Square Rep.

Since we know it will be months before we really hear anything ... I will be dormant for some time. However, my support is still here!

 

[Deleted member]

Ok,can someone explain to me what MatPat AKA the idiot did this time?

He thinks the Geno fanbase is very toxic and thinks we didn't like the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

He thinks the Geno fanbase is very toxic and thinks we didn't like the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4

Just when i thought i couldn't hate this dumbass even more. **** him seriously

 

[Deleted member]

Just when i thought i couldn't hate this ******* even more. **** him seriously

Literally the only person who didn't like the Mii costume commented on a video "I want Geno in Smash, not that damn Mii costume." That's it. The only person, and of course MatPat saw that and believes everyone has that same opinion

 

[Xigger]

Just got Geno in World of Light! Sheik really was an odd pick. Maybe that's how Sakurai envisioned Geno as a fighter? Anyways, I'm really glad Geno is one of the strongest spirits that I can use on a normal basis, as opposed to one of the countless weaker spirits. Besides the spirit, I'm sad that we have to wait to hear about 3rd party Mii Costumes, I personally loved playing Mii Geno, and the fact that the Mii characters are better and can be played online would have made it perfect. I believe it will happen, just perhaps not at launch. After all, it's free money for Square, and everyone knows they need money bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Just got Geno in World of Light! Sheik really was an odd pick. Maybe that's how Sakurai envisioned Geno as a fighter? Anyways, I'm really glad Geno is one of the strongest spirits that I can use on a normal basis, as opposed to one of the countless weaker spirits. Besides the spirit, I'm sad that we have to wait to hear about 3rd party Mii Costumes, I personally loved playing Mii Geno, and the fact that the Mii characters are better and can be played online would have made it perfect. I believe it will happen, just perhaps not at launch. After all, it's free money for Square, and everyone knows they need money bad.

You mean playable Geno, right?

I think the Mii costume is definitely coming if Geno isn't playable, or along with Geno

 

[owjies]

I agree with a lot of what's been said from all angles. I don't know if I have a ton to add. Overall I don't think there's anything wrong with reevaluating one's priorities in life. Look at how we all change just from each stage of education. I know I was a different person in a lot of ways as I transitioned between high school, college, and graduate school. Certain aspects of your life fade while new challenges and opportunities arise. Overall it's an exciting, albeit scary, part of life.

I also agree that you are the master of your own destiny. Smash Bros. and Mario RPG can still be a part of your life, and no one should take that away from you. I know from my own experience that gaming was a major reason why I chose to pursue media and the arts professionally, so I'm grateful for that part of my identity even as I'm finding myself with less and less time to actually game.

Here's a great quote from Sakurai: "Please understand that in determining your own path, you take responsibility for everything. No matter what other people think, your life is yours and yours alone!"

Just from my short time here it's evident to me that you're an excellent community organizer Fatman and someone that projects a lot of empathy toward others. You handled Polar Panda's information perfectly, giving us hope while also protecting his source. Your posts are really well informed and quite enjoyable to read. For those reasons and others that have been mentioned, I think you're more than just a Geno Fan. Those are all qualities that extend well beyond Smash Bros and online forums.

I'm also feeling the need to take a break, but I'll still be around. It's been a total blast hanging out with everyone here through the ups and downs. Although I'm kinda numb with my expectations for the final four characters, I'll absolutely hang on to my hope for Geno til the bitter end. Finally, I want to share my favorite post of this whole speculation cycle. Our perspective has changed a lot since then, but it was such a gripping read at the time that I thought I'd repost it anyway. It was written by Jazzy Jinx

I'm one of them. xD

I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance here. I've been on this train for over 12 years now as well.



I can understand that. At the same time though, I don't think it's necessary to be all that worried.

I would be genuinely astonished if the last character for DLC was announced and Geno hadn't already been included in the game by that point (base or DLC). Geno is playing with a full deck, frankly. Heck, he actually has stronger evidence than even Incineroar (who literally only has Vergeben).

Geno has the Sakurai interview from 2016 (he would have known the roster by that point; that was the time to deconfirm him, not hype him up), special attention with the Mii costume splash screen (and along with K. Rool, was more significant a Mii costume than the others because he's not relevant; meaning he was strictly included due to Smash popularity) and he even (loosely) has Vergeben. He was also (most likely) the most popular Square Enix character in the Smash Ballot in a game that is being tailor-made for fan requests.

Sora requires Disney and Square to play ball (and would generate more money as DLC; would be a better strategy there rather than base), Dragon Quest has never been localized in the West and they're only now making those plans so they would have missed the buck for the roster finalization back in 2016 (as well as being a licensing nightmare), Chrono, I believe, is also a licensing nightmare and is in irrelevancy hell (there seems to be something bigger going on there; I've seen it explained before but basically Chrono Trigger is dead dead). And given that Final Fantasy seems to be locked to VII, I wouldn't put money on a different protagonist making the cut. Outside of Sora, his competition isn't very strong.

No other character has this much hard evidence. A lot of them are just riding on ballot popularity (which Geno also has).

Let the hype flow through you, my brother.~

 

[HMpoweredMan]

Just got Geno in World of Light! Sheik really was an odd pick. Maybe that's how Sakurai envisioned Geno as a fighter? Anyways, I'm really glad Geno is one of the strongest spirits that I can use on a normal basis, as opposed to one of the countless weaker spirits. Besides the spirit, I'm sad that we have to wait to hear about 3rd party Mii Costumes, I personally loved playing Mii Geno, and the fact that the Mii characters are better and can be played online would have made it perfect. I believe it will happen, just perhaps not at launch. After all, it's free money for Square, and everyone knows they need money bad.

Where is he in WoL? I'm trying to get through it quickly so skipping a lot. I'm in the Triforce of Courage section of WoD. Already completed Power.

 

[valkiriforce]

That above quote that owjies posted is pretty much where I stand - I always felt when it comes to SE that it's between Sora and Geno (which I know was made clear in my previous post here) the rest feel like a stretch but it's not impossible. I'm thinking about how the Incineroar fans were getting a lot of hate but they were vindicated in the end, I'm hoping we can experience something similar with Geno as DLC.

I don't want to take this too far off-topic but with the mention of age-range and gaming - today is Doom's 25th birthday, and one of the creators John Romero just announced today that he's releasing an unofficial episode 5 for the original Doom. This is something that he did for fun - 9 all-new levels including 9 deathmatch levels and all of it can be downloaded and played for free. Granted, there is a special addition box set that is selling for a limited time, but the fact that he did this for fun and released it for free while he's in his 50's is pretty great. Also, why wouldn't anyone want to take advantage of being XX-years old and is still playing some games? I want to be that guy who lived to be in his 80's and still plays Contra III on hard mode, or Super Mario RPG or (hopefully) Geno in Smash Bros. I would gladly wear that title on my tombstone so people could say, "wow this guy must have been a real hoot."

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

That above quote that owjies posted is pretty much where I stand - I always felt when it comes to SE that it's between Sora and Geno (which I know was made clear in my previous post here) the rest feel like a stretch but it's not impossible. I'm thinking about how the Incineroar fans were getting a lot of hate but they were vindicated in the end, I'm hoping we can experience something similar with Geno as DLC.

I don't want to take this too far off-topic but with the mention of age-range and gaming - today is Doom's 25th birthday, and one of the creators John Romero just announced today that he's releasing an unofficial episode 5 for the original Doom. This is something that he did for fun - 9 all-new levels including 9 deathmatch levels and all of it can be downloaded and played for free. Granted, there is a special addition box set that is selling for a limited time, but the fact that he did this for fun and released it for free while he's in his 50's is pretty great. Also, why wouldn't anyone want to take advantage of being XX-years old and is still playing some games? I want to be that guy who lived to be in his 80's and still plays Contra III on hard mode, or Super Mario RPG or (hopefully) Geno in Smash Bros. I would gladly wear that title on my tombstone so people could say, "wow this guy must have been a real hoot."

I wonder if HE want's Doomguy in Smash....

 

[Loliko YnT]

I wonder if HE want's Doomguy in Smash....

Doomguy as Geno's echo fighter confirmed.

And yeah , Geno seem to get quite a lot of hate on others website/medias , because "Disconfirmed lmao , you salty bro?!".

It's actually one of the reasons I'm taking a break with Twitter and discord , and even quitted my Smash crew(beside lack of free time for tourney IRL). It seem Silly , but like , It's little jab here and there "he won't make it in , he's useless , he's irrelevant , Sora is more likely , Square don't care , ect..." but It's like that each of these jab has a needle. I can handle a few ones , but there is going to be a moment where I'll be bleeding.

And as Iv'e said before , other smash supporters community got a similar treatment because that mean we can get a good laugh and some dank memes.(Waluigi , Ashley , Isaac , Skull Kid , Banjo & Kazooie , Krystal , ect...)

And now , They're already complained about the balance of the game "OmG OliMAr broKEn up-SMEsh no lAG plS NErf DaddY Sokarui"and begging for nerfs 2 days after release.

So yeah , from my point of view , they are way more toxic than us sometimes.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Your opening there seems a bit aggressive and closed minded. I'm not "on anything". I'm more than happy to explain my viewpoint though.

The persona series includes a section with a romanceable trans man named Naoto. As part of this characters story arc you work to convince them to not go through with their planned surgery. The game frames it as "dangerous experiment" that you convince them not to go through with. They end up framing the character as a woman who is fed up with their treatment by men, but the character visibly shows signs of gender dysphoria including being uncomfortable with their naked body when surrounded by cis women in a hot springs scene. The game then further erases his identity when you pursue them as a romance option. When he explicitly tells you that he " wishes he had been born a boy" you have the option to tell them that you are "glad they are a girl" completely invalidating their identity. You can then ask them to start talking in a higher pitch and ultimately the character then attends an event dressed in womens clothing.

This invalidates trans identity and paints a picture that its ok to do this to trans persons. This kind of behavior is something that trans individuals have to deal with often and was something that my ex-fiance had to deal with daily at her job. She was transitioning MtF and her chef and other coworkers refused to ever acknowledge her, gender her correctly, or even try. Even after her body physically changed they refused. She had to completely move to a new job with people who did not know her just be able to shake that kind of abuse. That is why this series bothers me and why I think that kind of "art" just promotes intolerance.

The series also has a trans woman named Erica who is handled just at poorly. Everything from a characters friends makeing fun of him for his relationship with her, to that character considering them weird and then being disgusted when they find out she is trans. The game also further invalidates her identity by having her have the same nightmares as other characters when the nightmares only affect men. The game doesn't even take her identity seriously.

It is possible to have trans characters in a game while not invalidating their existence or painting them as fake. Persona does not do this. That is where my disgust stems from. I hope you now understand my frustration and know that I am not "on something" as you put.

You're not being entirely fair to both the context and narrative of Naoto though. First off, we have the obligatory Western values applied on to a Japanese frame of mind. That doesn't make how it handles gender and sexuality all that much better, but you do have to keep in mind the particular stereotype that Naoto is specifically attacking is the male domination of certain careers. Naoto in no way was ever supposed to be a trans character in the game. She dresses up as male to avoid the stigma of a female in the detective world, which is the crux of her entire story line. It's not Naoto entirely wants to transition to male, she's more interested in the perks and struggling to come to terms with the fact she is female in a world that favors male individuals. She is struggling for identity, yes, but her character never gets framed as actively wanting to transition. Coming to grips with her femininity is her ultimate end goal as a character and that relationship. It always was. The trans label is something certain communities applied to her after the fact. She's discovering her identity, and that ends up as a woman. A role she is very comfortable with by the end of the game. That's the way the story is told and her character is developed.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and argue that Persona is a paragon of LGBT representation. It most certainly is not and the more LGBT related storylines are not particularly well written or handled well for the Western context of identity. But that's just it, we're applying a western lens to a Japanese made video game where the context and meaning vastly differ from our understanding. Japan has some big problems with those regards to, but Naoto (And Kanji as well for that matter) just weren't ever meant to be adopted by the LGBT community as they were. Again, I think that speaks to a quality of writing that those ideas were left on the table like that, but their character arcs were always about coming to grips with their identities in a world that didn't allow for that. Kanji has feminine qualities and doesn't know how to reconcile those, so he acts hyper masculine. Naoto uses masculinity because she feels insecure with her femininity.

As someone in the LGBT community, I took a moment at these as well. But then I realized why this was happening and just how much of my own ideology I had been projecting on to those characters. Again, their not masterfully or tactfully written, but they're also nowhere near as toxic as your displaying them with regards to at least Naoto and Kanji from Persona 4. The other games may have bigger issues with specific characters, so I can't really speak to those.




Anyway, as for Geno. Seems like the past couple days have been rough on the fan base. I think when you factor in that we might not have any new information about DLC characters until well after February and I think it makes sense to take a bit of a break from speculation. We know the first two post-release characters already and the game just came out, so new information is going to be hard to come by for the immediate future. Joker doesn't specifically really do much to inspire confidence in his chances either.

I also think, for those throwing in the towel, this has been a cycle that should have been it. To have supported a character through thick and thin for a decade, and then have all the factors begin lining up in his favor in a way previously thought impossible (Geno recognized, fan requests getting in, Square on board) and then him missing the boat on the base roster just stings. I've mentioned it before, but it feels kind of like now or never for Geno given everything going in favor of him and the situation... But each time an announcement is made the faith wavers more and more. People pushed so hard for the base game and believed in him so much, and the same for DLC 1. Neither of those coming true hurts a lot.

I don't blame anyone for bowing out now. But I will say, despite a more grim outlook we've got four more chances (or however many until we get a Square rep) to see Geno show up DLC wise. That might be actually forever from now, but it's not over quite yet. A second season of DLC would also significantly give us a better shot, so we as Smash communities generally need to push for that as well.

 

[Bendario]

trans man named Naoto.

Naoto is 100% female, and the game never implies otherwise. Her story arc finds her learning to accept that perpetuating a false masculinity is only a crutch for her that keeps her in a regressive state. She was more focused on how her gender would or could affect her career and public image than she was on being herself and respecting her own work ethic and intelligence. That is why her shadow was a child, it was childish to assume that if she was something else the world would be better. That part of her still exists, but she must accept it and understand that you can't change what you are, only what you do. She stops trying to force masculinity and hide femininity, and simply allows her own unique personality to shine through.

And above all, none of this has to do with Geno. I'm not sure who this Mattpat guy is, or the person who supposedly "left the community", but they should not affect how anyone feels regarding our boy. On my end, I still hold onto hope that he could be DLC, but if he isn't, I at the very least want the Mii Costume back. Having that with Geno and Mallow spirits equipped would be wonderful, and would certainly satisfy me. Too bad SE has been so awful about Smash. it's a company with TWO rich histories in the videogame realm, and has become a hollow mockery of what it once was.

Geno for Smash

 

[Datboigeno]

I mean... I'm just processing a lot. I respect the hell out of guys like you, psycho, KCchief, etc that have supported not only this fanbase but me over the years. I'm just trying to not get really, really depressed because I'm being hit with a lot at once:

-This narrative that I've seen here and elsewhere that I'm unreliable and a liar despite me backing up my statements and noting when things are my own speculation. I'm being seen as a crazy old man despite my statements on the insider front not even being my own and that cuts deep. Basically my worst fears on these forums are being realized.

-The influx of people coming in here to either tell us that Geno's not coming or any above rock bottom is too optimistic. Like, we get it... As I bemoaned the other week, aside from maybe Toad and Dixie, we know disappointment more than any other Smash fanbase. It's in our DNA and a large part of the narrative. The fact that people are going out of their way to remind us of this, even making brand new accounts and bouncing, flat out sucks. We're continuously on the defensive in this thread and it's exhausting because no matter what you say, people won't care. It's incredibly rude but, again, people don't care. They're not invested. They just want to get their jabs in and bounce so it all circles back to being moot.

I'm only going to address these two things because other stuff involves your own life perspective and journey and you know yourself better than anyone else here.

The first part I think is a twofold situation: There are a lot of people who don't want Geno in the game for whatever reason and there are a lot of people who worship Vergeben and other "big name" leakers as being the Word of God regarding insider information and anything that contradicts what they say is an affront to their beliefs in their leak gods. There are many people who belong to both of these groups. Therefore when you have someone like you that is making strong arguments for Geno's inclusion and providing information that seems to run contrary to Vergeben's then inevitably many a fanny is going to be flustered over it leading to people attempting to discredit you in whatever way they can.

The second part is one that I very much agree with and have been vocal about for the past couple of weeks. It is total bull**** that people were coming here just to poopoo on Geno's chances and let us all know that they think X character is getting in over him, and despite any strong arguments in his favor they'd inevitably circle back to the "literally who" argument. Also, tbh I think people latching onto this thread to hype up and discuss other characters when they didn't even want Geno in the game just because leak info was being disseminated here was pretty bull****. I'm really thankful the SE speculation containment thread was made and wish so many people who were actually into discussing Geno didn't decide to bounce just when it felt like things were becoming more Geno-centric again.

 

[Necro Toad]

-This narrative that I've seen here and elsewhere that I'm unreliable and a liar despite me backing up my statements and noting when things are my own speculation. I'm being seen as a crazy old man despite my statements on the insider front not even being my own and that cuts deep. Basically my worst fears on these forums are being realized.

-I'm a little disillusioned with Smash Ultimate. Despite all the content, it's still currently only 4 new stages and 5 completely new characters and, 14 months from now, this will still be less than the original N64 game. Gameplay wise, it's still a little too similar to Smash 4 but it's faster. The characters I played in Smash 4 largely feel the same aside from some tweaks.

-I'm 31 and I have no business seriously competing anymore. I was mostly surrounded by high schoolers and college students in Smash 4 to begin with and the age gap continues to grow. I love this series but it's simply inappropriate to for me to participate in live tournaments anymore.

I'm really sad and angry reading this Fatmanonice , mainly because it is very unfair for people attack you and this accusations does not fit with who you appear to be and how you treat people here. This has been a especially toxic speculation season and besides of that you spent a lot of time and worked hard for all of us and I am very grateful for it. In countless times that I thought about giving up, I read your comments and opinions and I got back on my feet.

I really hope that you can deal with this role situations and if you need the Geno Gang, we are right here bro! I only hope that one day you see this Geno threads as a place to meet new people, find some friends, and not as some kind of weight on your shoulders. Even Smash itself isn't only about competition, it's about fun and hobby too.

And yes, I'm geting this bad impression about only 4 stages and only 5 new characters too. Sometimes it looks just like a different version of Smash 4, without trophies but with stickers spirits and faster. Not that kind of megalomaniac approach that Smash usually has. I just wish Sakurai had worked on this game for a year or two longer...

Anyway take your time and if Geno gets in come celebrate with us, otherwise, maybe we'll all meet again in 5 years, who knows! lol


We'll take it from here while you're out, captain!

 

[The Anigriffin]

The fact that some of these people take immense glee in other people’s characters not getting in a game that’s primarily targeted towards Nintendo’s family friendly demographic makes me think that most of these detractors aren’t above the age of 13 and just discovered what 4chan is.

 

[RSF-Blue bomber]

I won't lie these past few days have been depressing to me in the sense that geno's chance's have been brought down. Most of my wanted characters have been de confirmed:
zero: assist trophy
marshadow: pokeball Pokemon
dillon: assist trophy
shovel knight: assist trophy
and then we have gunvolt who is too small of a series to see any reps in smash. I literally only have geno left to root for and it sucks so much. And what's worse is that Nintendo takes a billion years to announce things so we will be in this limbo for a long damn time. Sigh anyway I'm not leaving this train until it crashes and burns.