Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[A.G.L.]

That's the catch here. And why I'm not really believing it

I understand it's a very different situation, a much more isolated one but, yeah. That's why I'm not quick to believe it.

Agree, thats exactly what I was thinking. Theres an old saying "If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is". We should be cautious when approaching things that seemingly match all the dots. We have to remember this is why many insiders immediately dismissed the Grinch leak, because it seemed too good to be true. Its fun to speculate, but we need to be logical when speculating as well and not get carried away by hype. At this point I still think many characters are still very much in play, and not just Geno and Sephiroth. And yes that even includes Sora and DQ, they both still have a chance even if its a small one.

 

[Nekoo]

Process of elimination, even without the narrative. Sora is out per a decent number of sources and everyone else is a legal nightmare except Sephiroth and Geno. Like I said, this narrative just gives context to what we already know.

Crono have no Copyright Issue as far as I know. Everything belong to Square on that one too, with at best a "Characters design: Tetsuya Nomura" situation on Amiibo/Credit with Toriyama but not title screen. Or any other company beside Square-Enix. Not even Bird Studio

 

[Ezclapper]

Process of elimination, even without the narrative. Sora is out per a decent number of sources and everyone else is a legal nightmare except Sephiroth and Geno. Like I said, this narrative just gives context to what we already know.

They are all kind of legal nightmares in there own right lol.

 

[Luigi The President]

They are all kind of legal nightmares in there own right lol.

You don't...actually think Geno to be a "legal nightmare"?
Dude's owned by Squenix.

That's it.

SMRPG music? We literally have its composer on the team.

Geno is a lot of things that currently prevent him from being in Smash but definitely not a legal nightmare.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

You sure you don't mean FF7 lol

Never trust anyone who tries to sell you on Final Fantasy XII. That’s downright evil.

Freakin' Roman numerals, man...

How many times must I tell myself? STICK. TO. NORMAL. NUMBERS. Stupid...

I fixed it now, lol.

 

[Ezclapper]

You don't...actually think Geno to be a "legal nightmare"?
Dude's owned by Squenix.

That's it.

SMRPG music? We literally have its composer on the team.

Geno is a lot of things that currently prevent him from being in Smash but definitely not a legal nightmare.

The question is if that's the character they want to rep in Smash :eyes:

 

[Luigi The President]

The question is if that's the character they want to rep in Smash :eyes:

I mean, yeah, it is, but it's not a question of Geno being a legal nightmare.
He's the LEAST legal nightmare out of the Squenix 7. Don't know why this is a thing that's actually disputed.

 

[Nekoo]

I mean, yeah, it is, but it's not a question of Geno being a legal nightmare.
He's the LEAST legal nightmare out of the Squenix 7. Don't know why this is a thing that's actually disputed.

Out of that list the least "copyright" issue, in orders are

Geno > Crono > Sephiroth > Dragon Quest > Sora

Idfk where there issue with Crono or Chrono Trigger but I'm like basically sure there's none.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Grinch Leak matched up with the narrative too.

Like I already explained earlier, the Grinch Leak had tons against it behind the scenes from pictures to video from multiple sources, this doesn't unless people are withholding evidence.

Also Polar isn't saying it's 100% not real, he's saying it's unverified. There's a huge difference. The assertion is that it came from a 100% real person in Square Enix but we have no way of proving that they actually said it. As someone who is now seeing all the evidence that they are seeing, we don't see things differently. It's a rumor, yes. Does it explain a lot, yes. Has it been confirmed? No. That's the difference. He's erring more on the side of caution, not saying it's unequivocally, undeniably, completely, and totally fake.

 

[MajoraMan28]

Crono was done as an union of FF creator Sakaguchi and DQ creator Horii. You could say this was S-E in the making.
Anyway, the fact is that S-E isn't the only owner of the rights of the game, as far as I know.
I also don't see S-E that interested on him, considering how they are restructuring everything there and the Crono series has been dead for decades.
His inclusion would be good for the fans, but S-E won't be seeing much return outside Smash.

 

[Luigi The President]

Out of that list the least "copyright" issue, in orders are

Geno > Crono > Sephiroth > Dragon Quest > Sora

Idfk where there issue with Crono or Chrono Trigger but I'm like basically sure there's none.

I think it's something to do with Bird Studios? But Crono doesn't have MUCH hassle.

Like I already explained earlier, the Grinch Leak had tons against it behind the scenes from pictures to video from multiple sources, this doesn't unless people are withholding evidence.

Also Polar isn't saying it's 100% not real, he's saying it's unverified. There's a huge difference. The assertion is that it came from a 100% real person in Square Enix but we have no way of proving that they actually said it. As someone who is now seeing all the evidence that they are seeing, we don't see things differently. It's a rumor, yes. Does it explain a lot, yes. Has it been confirmed? No. That's the difference. He's erring more on the side of caution, not saying it's unequivocally, undeniably, completely, and totally fake.

Thank you-as I've said I haven't been here so I don't really know who has said what.

If you have the time, can you help us understand why Crono runs into legal trouble?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm really thinking of making something where Geno is Sans if I can.

However, I fear I'll get backlash, but oh well.

I was also thinking of T-Posing Geno asserting his dominance against other SE characters but I admit that's too much. Maybe just him and The Grinch against that ugly Steve render (well except I can't find a download for the Steve model nor the Grinch model).

 

[AugustusB]

Out of that list the least "copyright" issue, in orders are

Geno > Crono > Sephiroth > Dragon Quest > Sora

Idfk where there issue with Crono or Chrono Trigger but I'm like basically sure there's none.

To answer ya buddy, Chrono Trigger is owned by Square AND Armor Project.

Did a quick type up and on the DS version which I think was the latest (?) It shows Square and Armor Project under copyright.

So I think the order is now.

Geno > Sephiroth > Crono > or = Dragon Quest > Sora

 

[-Coco-]

Out of that list the least "copyright" issue, in orders are

Geno > Crono > Sephiroth > Dragon Quest > Sora

Idfk where there issue with Crono or Chrono Trigger but I'm like basically sure there's none.

Crono is owned by Toriyama and Armor games.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm really thinking of making something where Geno is Sans if I can.

However, I fear I'll get backlash, but oh well.

I'm also thinking of T-Posing Geno asserting his dominance against other SE characters but I admit that's too much. Maybe just him and The Grinch against that ugly Steve render (well except I can't find a download for the Steve model nor the Grinch model).

Last time we had T-POSES OF OWNAGE all the T-Posers died. The T-Posers were our Grinch Leak characters.
So hold off. Lol

 

[A.G.L.]

I mean, yeah, it is, but it's not a question of Geno being a legal nightmare.
He's the LEAST legal nightmare out of the Squenix 7. Don't know why this is a thing that's actually disputed.

Agree Geno is the one with the least legal issues at this point. That being said what hurts his chances is Square's past business patterns. Which are the following rules or guidelines they stick to when it comes to their characters being in other games.

1) They always choose characters that represent the company, Geno would be another Mario character so he does not represent the company. 2) They are still relevant, Geno has not been used by Square for years outside Smash Wii U. 3) They help cross promote their games, Geno does not have a new game as far as we are aware. His game isn't on the Nintendo Switch, so they cant even cross promote his old game. So any chance for cross promotion is non existent. There's a fourth rule and that is they are globally popular, in this Geno does succeed at. Despite all this its possible Square may break their rules, its difficult to say. However Geno would not give them both short term and long term income, and we have seen Square loves their picks to have both.

All Square characters have some sort of handicap against them at this point, which makes it hard to see which one is the one they will choose. That is why I say we should not dismiss any of the top contenders so easily. Geno may indeed be our 2nd Square rep, but he just as easily may not be. Right now its too early to tell.

 

[Nekoo]

Crono was done as an union of FF creator Sakaguchi and DQ creator Horii. You could say this was S-E in the making.
Anyway, the fact is that S-E isn't the only owner of the rights of the game, as far as I know.

To answer ya buddy, Chrono Trigger is owned by Square AND Armor Project.

Did a quick type up and on the DS version which I think was the latest (?) It shows Square and Armor Project under copyright.

So I think the order is now.

Geno > Sephiroth > Crono > or = Dragon Quest > Sora

When it comes to Characters, game and asset it's 100% Square-Enix.
The illustration rights is basically Akira Toriyama like always but it's not a issue as it touch only illustration.
Armor project only have rights for when it comes to the story/screenplay of the games as weird as it sounds.


But Square-Enix can do whatever they want with Chrono trigger. Re-release it 9000 times or make a Sequels. Without any problems

 

[TheCJBrine]

Last time we had T-POSES OF OWNAGE all the T-Posers died. The T-Posers were our Grinch Leak characters.
So hold off. Lol

okay lol.

I really do want to make a Geno & The Grinch T-Pose vs. 4chan's Ugly (yet funny imo) Steve thing though, of course as a joke, but really I can't find any of the models except for Geno's...

 

[Luigi The President]

Agree Geno is the one with the least legal issues at this point. That being said what hurts his chances is Square's past business patterns. Which are the following rules or guidelines they stick to when it comes to their characters being in other games.

1) They always choose characters that represent the company, Geno would be another Mario character so he does not represent the company. 2) They are still relevant, Geno has not been used by Square for years outside Smash Wii U. 3) They help cross promote their games, Geno does not have a new game as far as we are aware. His game isn't on the Nintendo Switch, so they cant even cross promote his old game. So any chance for cross promotion is non existent. There's a fourth rule and that is they are globally popular, in this Geno does succeed at. Despite all this its possible Square may break their rules, its difficult to say. However Geno would not give them both short term and long term income, and we have seen Square loves their picks to have both.

All Square characters have some sort of handicap against them at this point, which makes it hard to see which one is the one they will choose. That is why I say we should not dismiss any of the top contenders so easily. Geno may indeed be our 2nd Square rep, but he ust as easily may not be. Right now its too early to tell.

Geno would still be a Squenix character. I don't think 1 point is a valid one when he very may likely have his own unique icon indicating him as a Squenix-held character whether it be a simple "RPG" logo or not.

Your other points are though. I just find it absurd that people claim Geno would be that hard to get. He wouldn't be; especially compared to a DQ rep or Sora.
It's just a matter of if Squenix wants him in.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Last time we had T-POSES OF OWNAGE all the T-Posers died. The T-Posers were our Grinch Leak characters.
So hold off. Lol

.....quick someone make sephiroth t posing on geno

 

[MajoraMan28]

Geno would still be a Squenix character. I don't think 1 point is a valid one when he very may likely have his own unique icon indicating him as a Squenix-held character whether it be a simple "RPG" logo or not.

Your other points are though. I just find it absurd that people claim Geno would be that hard to get. He wouldn't be; especially compared to a DQ rep or Sora.
It's just a matter of if Squenix wants him in.

Just a reminder that Geno is listed as part of the Mario series according to the files. He can't be listed outside of the series Smash Ultimate itself designated for him

 

[TheCJBrine]

.....quick someone make sephiroth t posing on geno

I mean, that was actually what I was thinking of before I decided against it (Geno T-Posing on Sephiroth); the Sephiroth model was very easy to find in the Steam Workshop, though I'm afraid neither The Grinch model nor the ugly 4chan Steve model are there...

I did see a youtube video with rendered-animation with both, though (a weird video...), so I assume there's downloads for both somewhere, unless they're being kept private...

It seemed like an SFM video but idk...

 

[FCZHornet]

Its worth noting that Geno being a Mario character helps Nintendo as easily in the sense that it builds popularity for a franchise constantly in need of fresh faces. They aren’t gonna stop making tennis, party, soccer, baseball, whatever Mario games and if the latest Mario Party is anything to go off, they need more unless you wanna keep digging into the bag of bad guys Mario has stepped on over the years. Add Geno to smash, his appeal is easy to understand, then you can use a character with newfound popularity in your arsenal of Mario characters.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just a reminder that Geno is listed as part of the Mario series according to the files. He can't be listed outside of the series Smash Ultimate itself designated for him

I hate to bust out the "nah, he can, there's no real rules like that" thing but...he totally can.
Spirits and playable are very different entities.

 

[yakko789]

So guys, um, like, we were on page 453 last night and now we're almost on page 470. What is going on? lmao

 

[ShinyReshiram]

So guys, um, like, we were on page 453 last night and now we're almost on page 470. What is going on? lmao

Anxiety.

 

[AugustusB]

When it comes to Characters, game and asset it's 100% Square-Enix.
The illustration rights is basically Akira Toriyama like always but it's not a issue as it touch only illustration.
Armor project only have rights for when it comes to the story/screenplay of the games as weird as it sounds.


But Square-Enix can do whatever they want with Chrono trigger. Re-release it 9000 times or make a Sequels. Without any problems

Digging a bit and this is correct.

If only a sequel could happen...(One can dream)

 

[Fatmanonice]

http://www.square-enix.co.jp/smart/chronotrigger/en/

Chrono Trigger is owned by Square Enix and Armor Project. Haven't been able to get a clear cut answer on characters because virtually anything personally designed by Akira Toriyama belongs to him via Bird Studio. The back of my copy of the DS remake says Bird Studio does have rights but this site doesn't so I'm a little confused.

 

[bardbowman]

You don't...actually think Geno to be a "legal nightmare"?
Dude's owned by Squenix.

That's it.

SMRPG music? We literally have its composer on the team.

Geno is a lot of things that currently prevent him from being in Smash but definitely not a legal nightmare.

Add to that the fact that Sakurai/Nintendo already has the rights to use Geno (and Mallow) in Smash.

It's been said before, but Geno is by far the easiest one from any of the lists to include.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, when Polar is consistently making note of this information being sketchy at best and the fact that it fitting with a narrative is what makes it acceptable, I’m also willing to drop this whole idea.

Like if it’s a LinkedIn profile and fitting with a perceived narrative we don’t know all the pieces of in the least bit, then yeah, the Sephiroth vs Geno idea kind of just goes in the bin cause there isn’t much to back it up.

I’m still inclined to believe Polar as far as his Nintendo source goes from what he’s said, but he’s also not been able to provide an update in a little while.

 

[valkiriforce]

Surely making a slightly more playable and believable version of the mii fighter outfit can't be that far out of hand, can it?

 

[paper roxy]

Why would you not want a SE rep? Especially anyone from the list of 7?

personally not a fan of nomura's character designs and i feel like toriyama's character designs all look too similar to either goku, android 17, or bulma. id rather have no SE character if we get no geno because at least theres still a chance i can get 5 characters id like

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, this is weird... Literally any of the art in Chrono Trigger could count as "illustration..." But how do you make assets without illustrations... Uh... Hmm... I get how the story/screenplay wouldn't be relevant in this scenario but how do you separate that right from the actual game... I'm so confused...

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

You don't...actually think Geno to be a "legal nightmare"?
Dude's owned by Squenix.

That's it.

SMRPG music? We literally have its composer on the team.

Geno is a lot of things that currently prevent him from being in Smash but definitely not a legal nightmare.

The fact that Nintendo and Sakurai can already use him in the game is enough. Cloud, Geno, and Mallow are the only Square spirits in Smash Ultimate.
Yoko is already on board with the soundtracks, so Geno's even a lot easier to get than Crono.
If they can use him in the game, then they can make him into a newcomer.

If Cloud is 100% Square property like Geno is, and was hard to negotiate for again, then Crono is going to be tough. Chrono Trigger's soundtrack is done by Yasunori Mitsuda and Nobuo Uematsu, two composers that aren't working with Square anymore. Sure Crono is 100% Square, but one of those composers is hard to work with, and SMRPG's composer is already WITH and working with Nintendo, and Geno being in the game already would be easiest for Square; Nintendo and Sakurai won't have to go to another separate soundtrack composer(s) if they stick with Geno. While I would like Sephiroth, there's one reason why I can't see it... if Nintendo picked the DLC like at the beginning of November, then I don't see it because Mr. Uematsu is the composer and owner of the FF7 tracks on the Midgar stage, and since September, he is currently on a hiatus because of an illness; he's very difficult to work with and I'd be surprised if they tried to get more soundtracks from him again. A Midgar stage is already enough, I mean, I think it really fits the theme of Sephiroth. I'll take Sephiroth and Geno at this point, give us some new soundtracks for the Midgar stage and a new stage + soundtracks for Geno's stage. It's probably going to be Forest Maze for Geno's stage, but I'd prefer the SMRPG stage to be Vista Hill since it's one of the most famous, historical areas in SMRPG and represents the entire game itself.

 

[childishgamgeno]

Yeah, when Polar is consistently making note of this information being sketchy at best and the fact that it fitting with a narrative is what makes it acceptable, I’m also willing to drop this whole idea.

Like if it’s a LinkedIn profile and fitting with a perceived narrative we don’t know all the pieces of in the least bit, then yeah, the Sephiroth vs Geno idea kind of just goes in the bin cause there isn’t much to back it up.

I’m still inclined to believe Polar as far as his Nintendo source goes from what he’s said, but he’s also not been able to provide an update in a little while.

Lets examine this then:

Lets say it’s fake. Why do you guys think this persons motive is to feed misinformation? To confuse us? To mess with Polar?

1) They always choose characters that represent the company, Geno would be another Mario character so he does not represent the company. 2) They are still relevant, Geno has not been used by Square for years outside Smash Wii U. 3) They help cross promote their games, Geno does not have a new game as far as we are aware. His game isn't on the Nintendo Switch, so they cant even cross promote his old game. So any chance for cross promotion is non existent. There's a fourth rule and that is they are globally popular, in this Geno does succeed at. Despite all this its possible Square may break their rules, its difficult to say. However Geno would not give them both short term and long term income, and we have seen Square loves their picks to have both.
.

1. Geno represented Squenix in Wii U tho. Not any other of their reps.

2. But... Smash Wii U was only 3 years ago.

3. Crono doesn’t have a new game and won’t be getting one soon. They’d only be cross promoting games already coming out and getting re-releases or ports. It’s not coming off of a new game or anything tho. I think it’s different for 2B

 

[BoyMan]

Even if Geno doesn't get in as DLC, I'd have to wonder why we didn't get any SMRPG music in Ultimate. It seems extremely odd what with Geno and Mallow in the game as spirits, Yoko Shimomura already being on board, and the Smash team having gotten permission to use "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms" for Geno's Mii costume reveal.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Along with the legal rights for Geno, the producer of SMRPG was Papa Miyamoto himself and most of the staff work for Nintendo via Alpha Dream including both directors. Although not totally necessary, at least one of the two character designers, Yoko Hatae, still works for Square Enix too.

Add in: I bring this up because Sakurai has mentioned that along with the IP holders, he also works closely with staff connected to the character too.

 

[Pristine]

Even if Geno doesn't get in as DLC, I'd have to wonder why we didn't get any SMRPG music in Ultimate. It seems extremely odd what with Geno and Mallow in the game as spirits, Yoko Shimomura already being on board, and the Smash team having gotten permission to use "Beware the Forest's Mushrooms" for Geno's Mii costume reveal.

Lets not forget the fact that these spirits were given to us is the base game, rather than bundled up into DLC as SE is very fond of doing so (yes I know I said that earlier but I feel like it's imperative enough to be repeated).

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I need to bring this point back up: we didn't know about geno and mallow as spirits until the game LEAKED.....what if we weren't supposed to know them until, say..... the VGA awards?

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

http://www.square-enix.co.jp/smart/chronotrigger/en/

Chrono Trigger is owned by Square Enix and Armor Project. Haven't been able to get a clear cut answer on characters because virtually anything personally designed by Akira Toriyama belongs to him via Bird Studio. The back of my copy of the DS remake says Bird Studio does have rights but this site doesn't so I'm a little confused.

Wow, I had no clue about that until now... So that means Crono is owned by Square, Armor Project, Akira Toriyama, and Bird Studio? Hell, I think Crono's chances dropped drastically; they're in the same position as Erdrick now.