Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EricTheGamerman]

I still can’t get over how weird it is to have this much hope for Geno. I know it’s a dangerous game to play this particular game and be such a part of the hype train given his circumstances. But still, his circumstances are also so in favor of his inclusion.

Given that Sakurai wants him in, fans wants him in, and Square Enix is seemingly playing ball, I can’t really come up with a good reason for him not to be I unless Sakurai just decides a dumb reason for him not to be...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still can’t get over how weird it is to have this much hope for Geno. I know it’s a dangerous game to play this particular game and be such a part of the hype train given his circumstances. But still, his circumstances are also so in favor of his inclusion.

Given that Sakurai wants him in, fans wants him in, and Square Enix is seemingly playing ball, I can’t really come up with a good reason for him not to be I unless Sakurai just decides a dumb reason for him not to be...

Honestly? It's more likely SE says no. They're pretty protective of their IP's.

If Geno isn't in cause of Sakurai, it's him unable to make a moveset work the ways he wants to. He otherwise wouldn't say no since he made it clear he wants him in. It's the reason he went for the Mii Costume as a backup idea since trying to license and create two playable characters from Square-Enix would take a lot more time than the DLC allowed for. And Cloud was higher priority, understandably so.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Honestly? It's more likely SE says no. They're pretty protective of their IP's.

If Geno isn't in cause of Sakurai, it's him unable to make a moveset work the ways he wants to. He otherwise wouldn't say no since he made it clear he wants him in. It's the reason he went for the Mii Costume as a backup idea since trying to license and create two playable characters from Square-Enix would take a lot more time than the DLC allowed for. And Cloud was higher priority, understandably so.

Would it be a big difference in licensing a Mii costume versus a playable character? Especially when Square obviously doesn’t care about how Geno is represented given they just don’t care about using him anyway?

Genuinely curious since I don’t know.

 

[MattX20]

Honestly? It's more likely SE says no. They're pretty protective of their IP's.

If Geno isn't in cause of Sakurai, it's him unable to make a moveset work the ways he wants to. He otherwise wouldn't say no since he made it clear he wants him in. It's the reason he went for the Mii Costume as a backup idea since trying to license and create two playable characters from Square-Enix would take a lot more time than the DLC allowed for. And Cloud was higher priority, understandably so.

And even then, if they didn't want Geno or any Super Mario RPG content in Smash 4, they would've refused Sakurai permission for that. The fact they didn't do that to me implies they're okay with him being used.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Would it be a big difference in licensing a Mii costume versus a playable character? Especially when Square obviously doesn’t care about how Geno is represented given they just don’t care about using him anyway?

Genuinely curious since I don’t know.

I'm talking about the time it makes to make a playable character compared to a costume. Licensing isn't the issue in itself. Cloud was higher priority to be playable. I wasn't too clear on that, my bad.

And even then, if they didn't want Geno or any Super Mario RPG content in Smash 4, they would've refused Sakurai permission for that. The fact they didn't do that to me implies they're okay with him being used.

Exactly. Which is why he didn't get into Brawl in any way. Even if he couldn't be made playable due to time constraints, he'd still have a sticker or trophy. Licensing is pretty much what stopped Geno from appearing in Brawl as is. Sakurai wouldn't just throw away any work made. He'd use it if he had permission.

 

[Slender]

Honestly? It's more likely SE says no. They're pretty protective of their IP's.

I feel like this would've been solid reasoning if Square hadn't already allowed Sakurai to use Geno in Super Smash Bros. Having the Mii Costume introduced has basically shown that Square is willing to give the go-ahead for Geno. I do agree with you saying that having two Square representatives being worked on simultaneously in Sm4sh would be a tad overboard. Cloud got priority, but now I believe we are next in line.

To be completely honest, I was upset at first when Cloud was shown off for the first time. I was even more devastated when the dataminers came out and found the Mii Costume. From that point I knew Geno in Sm4sh would not come to be. But after release, something clicked in my brain. I realized this meant Square and Nintendo could be working together, depending on whether or not Cloud stuck around for the next game(s) or not. Now that Ultimate is set for release, I think our time to shine is now.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm talking about the time it makes to make a playable character compared to a costume. Licensing isn't the issue in itself. Cloud was higher priority to be playable. I wasn't too clear on that, my bad.

Ah that makes more sense. I didn’t think licensing would be an issue when they had already managed to use them. I was confused as to why you were saying Square might be the issue, so I wanted to ask.

I agree Cloud was a higher priority by a long shot. With him it comes down to really two things in my mind:

1. Does Square-Enix want another big star playable (Sora, Slime, Black Mage etc)
2. Does that matter at all for Geno if one of them gets in, or he is special enough to warrant a spot outside of the more seemingly limited space for third parties?

If Square doesn’t have any intention on a second rep in Smash, that would be seem to be the last real barrier to his entry, other than them just deciding they don’t want him as playable for a dumb reason...But again, they seem to not mind him being used in the first place...

(Or I guess, is there a problem Sakurai sees with including him as playable this time, but again, that seems super unlikely).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ah that makes more sense. I didn’t think licensing would be an issue when they had already managed to use them. I was confused as to why you were saying Square might be the issue, so I wanted to ask.

I agree Cloud was a higher priority by a long shot. With him it comes down to really two things in my mind:

1. Does Square-Enix want another big star playable (Sora, Slime, Black Mage etc)
2. Does that matter at all for Geno if one of them gets in, or he is special enough to warrant a spot outside of the more seemingly limited space for third parties?

If Square doesn’t have any intention on a second rep in Smash, that would be seem to be the last real barrier to his entry, other than them just deciding they don’t want him as playable for a dumb reason...But again, they seem to not mind him being used in the first place...

(Or I guess, is there a problem Sakurai sees with including him as playable this time, but again, that seems super unlikely).

Don't forget that Disney is a barrier to Sora as well.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I feel like this would've been solid reasoning if Square hadn't already allowed Sakurai to use Geno in Super Smash Bros. Having the Mii Costume introduced has basically shown that Square is willing to give the go-ahead for Geno. I do agree with you saying that having two Square representatives being worked on simultaneously in Sm4sh would be a tad overboard. Cloud got priority, but now I believe we are next in line.

To be completely honest, I was upset at first when Cloud was shown off for the first time. I was even more devastated when the dataminers came out and found the Mii Costume. From that point I knew Geno in Sm4sh would not come to be. But after release, something clicked in my brain. I realized this meant Square and Nintendo could be working together, depending on whether or not Cloud stuck around for the next game(s) or not. Now that Ultimate is set for release, I think our time to shine is now.

Dataminers found the Geno costume before it was shown? Where was I during Smash 4?

 

[Megadoomer]

Dataminers found the Geno costume before it was shown? Where was I during Smash 4?

https://www.gamnesia.com/news/datam...rnate-colors-three-songs-and-a-new-mii-costum

It was an update on the day of the final Smash 4 presentation, so shortly before Cloud was released.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Don't forget that Disney is a barrier to Sora as well.

The rights to Sora do seem like such a fundamental cluster-**** to be honest. Getting Disney involved just seems like a step too far for Sakurai. That doesn’t mean I couldn’t see Square trying to force the point, even if it is ultimately unreasonable.

Though, that only adds to Geno’s chances. I don’t think the Slime has a huge shot (unless I’m sleeping on his chances due to being American). Black Mage... could happen I suppose, but that still seems a little too generic (Especially if we’re getting a certain, other, small witch in the game).

The factors seem to be just lining up, which scares me because I don’t want to end up disappointed...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The rights to Sora do seem like such a fundamental cluster-**** to be honest. Getting Disney involved just seems like a step too far for Sakurai. That doesn’t mean I couldn’t see Square trying to force the point, even if it is ultimately unreasonable.

Though, that only adds to Geno’s chances. I don’t think the Slime has a huge shot (unless I’m sleeping on his chances due to being American). Black Mage... could happen I suppose, but that still seems a little too generic (Especially if we’re getting a certain, other, small witch in the game).

The factors seem to be just lining up, which scares me because I don’t want to end up disappointed...

Black Mage and Ashley aren't much alike besides a technical theme. Black Mage isn't really about "black magic" so much as destructive magic. Black Magic is actually generally different in a lot of its uses, which can include stuff that isn't truly dark. Witches don't inherently use evil magic by default. Then again, Black Mage doesn't either.

Anyway, as for Geno, he's way easier to get at this point. Sora may be easy in a way(as all that needs to happen is Disney asks Sora's owner if it's okay and the rest is licensing agreements over what Disney and Square specific content to use). This can be a problem on its own. That said, we've never gotten two characters from the same 3rd party franchise(though Cloud is more of a representative of FFVII than FF in general, but he was actually added because they wanted an FF character. His design is hard FFVII stuff). Geno has it easy because it all depends upon Sakurai and Square only, but also they clearly are okay with Sakurai using him as 4 shows. They didn't during Brawl overall, mind you. In the case of Ultimate, it's a matter of what content he can license off of them. This could mean less music, but then again, the DLC budget was likely low(though this isn't really why Geno is only a costume, as that's more of a case of "only so much time to make a moveset". Related to what I said above, we're led to believe Ike was used as a base to speed up the development of Corrin and Cloud, as well as ZSS used as a base for Bayonetta. Why does this matter, exactly? If this is completely what we think it is, it means that Geno didn't have an easy base to use. He might still not. His previous costume and the Mii Gunner model could be the push he needs, but I'm not putting much stock into this idea).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Black Mage and Ashley aren't much alike besides a technical theme. Black Mage isn't really about "black magic" so much as destructive magic. Black Magic is actually generally different in a lot of its uses, which can include stuff that isn't truly dark. Witches don't inherently use evil magic by default. Then again, Black Mage doesn't either.

Anyway, as for Geno, he's way easier to get at this point. Sora may be easy in a way(as all that needs to happen is Disney asks Sora's owner if it's okay and the rest is licensing agreements over what Disney and Square specific content to use). This can be a problem on its own. That said, we've never gotten two characters from the same 3rd party franchise(though Cloud is more of a representative of FFVII than FF in general, but he was actually added because they wanted an FF character. His design is hard FFVII stuff). Geno has it easy because it all depends upon Sakurai and Square only, but also they clearly are okay with Sakurai using him as 4 shows. They didn't during Brawl overall, mind you. In the case of Ultimate, it's a matter of what content he can license off of them. This could mean less music, but then again, the DLC budget was likely low(though this isn't really why Geno is only a costume, as that's more of a case of "only so much time to make a moveset". Related to what I said above, we're led to believe Ike was used as a base to speed up the development of Corrin and Cloud, as well as ZSS used as a base for Bayonetta. Why does this matter, exactly? If this is completely what we think it is, it means that Geno didn't have an easy base to use. He might still not. His previous costume and the Mii Gunner model could be the push he needs, but I'm not putting much stock into this idea).

I’d imagine the issue of using other characters as a base was a lot more serious of an issue for DLC. I’d say Sakurai is more likely to invest the time into a new model and overall character for the new game of Ultimate (I have nothing to back that up other than I’d imagine something brand new is viable with the staff of a full game to be fair).

Though, if the Mii gunner is used to help build a unique Geno, I’d seriously reconsider my stance on how much I dislike the Mii Fighters in general!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’d imagine the issue of using other characters as a base was a lot more serious of an issue for DLC. I’d say Sakurai is more likely to invest the time into a new model and overall character for the new game of Ultimate (I have nothing to back that up other than I’d imagine something brand new is viable with the staff of a full game to be fair).

Though, if the Mii gunner is used to help build a unique Geno, I’d seriously reconsider my stance on how much I dislike the Mii Fighters in general!

I mean, it's the easiest character to use as a base right now. As MegaMan has a very different build. Keep in mind it's not just the "gunner" part, but it's the fact his costume is already used on there and has animations. This is a good place to start.

Did you know Ness was actually first created in Smash 64 by using Mario as a base? There's a reason the Polygon Ness actually looks similar to Mario. It's because it actually is.

And exactly. Base game may have more time to work with. With so many notable characters(like Takamaru) already AT's, he had to give some priority. It is of course possible that Geno might be lower priority or Square would say no to him being playable. I think he will be, but I'm prepared for the worst. I mean, look at who I clearly support the most, and his franchise is deader than the Sega Saturn.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I mean, it's the easiest character to use as a base right now. As MegaMan has a very different build. Keep in mind it's not just the "gunner" part, but it's the fact his costume is already used on there and has animations. This is a good place to start.

Did you know Ness was actually first created in Smash 64 by using Mario as a base? There's a reason the Polygon Ness actually looks similar to Mario. It's because it actually is.

And exactly. Base game may have more time to work with. With so many notable characters(like Takamaru) already AT's, he had to give some priority. It is of course possible that Geno might be lower priority or Square would say no to him being playable. I think he will be, but I'm prepared for the worst. I mean, look at who I clearly support the most, and his franchise is deader than the Sega Saturn.

Yeah, we had discussions regarding 64 in the Newcomer thread regarding clones and Echo fighters when I brought up Isabelle. I was aware they had reused assets like that, but not quite to the extent, so thanks for informing me.

I’m also trying not to get too excited for characters. I think a few of my top 10 have a very good chance, but I’ve been disappointed before. I’ve tried to keep the hype pretty evenly spread between reps of all sizes, relevancies, etc. So that way I can at hopefully get a couple characters I want.

Is Quest a franchise? I’m only aware of Quest 64... a game I wish I could have gotten into, but never could when I was younger... I seem to have lost the cart too

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, we had discussions regarding 64 in the Newcomer thread regarding clones and Echo fighters when I brought up Isabelle. I was aware they had reused assets like that, but not quite to the extent, so thanks for informing me.

I’m also trying not to get too excited for characters. I think a few of my top 10 have a very good chance, but I’ve been disappointed before. I’ve tried to keep the hype pretty evenly spread between reps of all sizes, relevancies, etc. So that way I can at hopefully get a couple characters I want.

Is Quest a franchise? I’m only aware of Quest 64... a game I wish I could have gotten into, but never could when I was younger... I seem to have lost the cart too

Quest is a franchise. It has 3 games. Quest 64, Quest: Brian's Journey, and Quest Fantasy Challenge. With other language variations. Quest 64 is among all 3 regions(US, UK, JP), Brian's Journey is not in the UK, and Fantasy Challenge is US and UK only. No clue why Brian's Journey didn't appear in the UK region, but Fantasy Challenge is a redeco of Mr. Do!, so it makes sense why it wasn't released in Japan(note that there are some differences, including unique power-ups you can use, but otherwise is based upon the same gameplay. It has more enemies, but is also vastly harder due to bad spells making you an easy target. It'd work in an arcade where you could throw in coins all day, though).

Anyway, I hope we get Geno myself. I've been interested in him for a while now. Not as much as Toad(not Captain Toad, just the original retainer), but he's pretty much already done for, so next best option. Paper Mario does interest me too, but for different reasons. I also have a link to the Brian support thread and the official Quest 64 thread in my sig if you want to talk more about either the character of franchise.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I didn't know there was more than one game in n the "Quest" series. I had Quest 64. Though I never completed it.

Edit: lol, I can't post a lot of super productive things while at work.


I do have a question though. If 3rd parties are so protective of the image of their characters... Would Geno get colorful costumes? I wonder if they could change Geno's tone to different wood colors or how much they could change his cloak?

Would they be able to modernize the look of Geno?

I wonder how much freedom they'd have over him

 

[EarlTamm]

I do have a question though. If 3rd parties are so protective of the image of their characters... Would Geno get colorful costumes? I wonder if they could change Geno's tone to different wood colors or how much they could change his cloak?

Would they be able to modernize the look of Geno?

I wonder how much freedom they'd have over him

When it comes to clor variation, I do think it would be a bit more limited if we think of it like how other third parties have been colored. The only exception seems to be Bayo, but that's because Nintendo practically owns her series now.

As for modernization, I can see Geno getting a few touch up's, along the lines of modernization that happened in Smashified. I don't see a Pit senario happening.

I imagine Geno will get a lot of freedom, since Square was surprisingly hands off with Cloud, and he is their golden boy. I don't see them being any form of controlling over Geno.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nintendo doesn't practically own her series, but they do have a good chunk of control due to the fact they're publishing it. However, Bayonetta also wasn't super iconic like Sonic was, hence they don't have to worry about "extremely iconic look" and can do things a bit more freely.

Besides that, I think Geno could get better costumes since he's not in the same iconic ballpark. It also can depend the character. Pac-Man has no general alternate color design, so what they did was make him recognizable. MegaMan has a lot of recolors, so they can get away with that. Sonic got a bit more due to things like his dark costume possibly referencing Dark Sonic from Sonic X, somewhat different color changes due to things like other Hedgehogs existing(like Silver). There's a bit more to work off of in some cases. I'm still annoyed Cloud's costumes are so hard to tell apart.

 

[SSGuy]

Square has always been the biggest barrier for Geno. They have been the biggest gate keeper for Geno since day one.

I was absolutely devastated for Cloud. It seems like such a slap in the face when he was revealed. However, now I view Cloud more so like the boss key to a giant dungeon. And seeing the Mii Costume had me really excited and optimistic that the licensing barrier is no more.

It gives me motivation that Geno is more possible now than ever before because I always felt like SE was the only reason why he has been held back for many years. Sounds really petty on my end but I refused to play or patronize Square Enix until Geno is at least in something. (The whole lack of him in Sports Mix and Fortune Street to instead shill in a Moogle really left a sour taste in my mouth)

But as soon as Geno is ever revealed, I think I am willing to stop being such an edge lord about them. Maybe try Chrono Trigger. Maybe get Octopath as my first Switch game. Who knows?

Also, in this scenario, thank God for "The Mouse" if you know what I mean.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I want to get Octopath but it's going to have to wait. So much money I have to spend lately. Not enough for what I want

 

[Slender]

Square has always been the biggest barrier for Geno. They have been the biggest gate keeper for Geno since day one.

I was absolutely devastated for Cloud. It seems like such a slap in the face when he was revealed. However, now I view Cloud more so like the boss key to a giant dungeon. And seeing the Mii Costume had me really excited and optimistic that the licensing barrier is no more.

It gives me motivation that Geno is more possible now than ever before because I always felt like SE was the only reason why he has been held back for many years. Sounds really petty on my end but I refused to play or patronize Square Enix until Geno is at least in something. (The whole lack of him in Sports Mix and Fortune Street to instead shill in a Moogle really left a sour taste in my mouth)

Hey, at least we got a nice remix.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

I think if we were gonna get another rep from square it would be Geno. For Sora Sakurai has to work with two different companies. one of which is an american company so that would make it harder for Sakurai to communicate with them. so yeah just seems like way to much of a hassle for one character in the base game. I think if Sora got in he would be DLC. where he can more clearly focus on just him.

as for a black mage or slime. I think Geno would have had a much bigger presence in the ballot. so I don't think there is any other square characters at this point that Sakurai would deem more important. seeing as he has already been eyeing Geno for awhile.

as for square getting in the way? they don't really have the power to force another character. they could suggest one. but I think Sakurai would go in asking for Geno. and if he can't get him he'll just go look for characters elsewhere.

But I don't see Square trying to "Stop him" for any stupid reasons. Square Enix has a pretty good relationship with nintendo right now. and outright refusing Sakurai's request for a character they are not even using would just be petty and pointless. heck since they have that division working solely on switch games that might even see this as a chance to gauge if the idea of that team reviving the Mario RPG games would be a good idea. (it was a success for them afterall way back when) I mean they are actually in the perfect position to make that happen if they have an interest.

 

[EarlTamm]

Well, it was closer than I though it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5O0BX8Gbp8

Edit: Changed my avatar finally. Stopped being lazy about it.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Square has always been the biggest barrier for Geno. They have been the biggest gate keeper for Geno since day one.

I was absolutely devastated for Cloud. It seems like such a slap in the face when he was revealed. However, now I view Cloud more so like the boss key to a giant dungeon. And seeing the Mii Costume had me really excited and optimistic that the licensing barrier is no more.

It gives me motivation that Geno is more possible now than ever before because I always felt like SE was the only reason why he has been held back for many years. Sounds really petty on my end but I refused to play or patronize Square Enix until Geno is at least in something. (The whole lack of him in Sports Mix and Fortune Street to instead shill in a Moogle really left a sour taste in my mouth)

But as soon as Geno is ever revealed, I think I am willing to stop being such an edge lord about them. Maybe try Chrono Trigger. Maybe get Octopath as my first Switch game. Who knows?

Also, in this scenario, thank God for "The Mouse" if you know what I mean.

You know I once felt like that about Cloud too. He was such a out of nowhere choice for Smash i was taken aback, while everyone knows Geno would have been so much more hype. If at the time Cloud was revealed, if it was Geno instead that would have been beyond epic! I get that Cloud is the poster boy for FF and all, and I do love me some Final Fantasy don't get me wrong. But I feel like sometimes Nintendo doesn't understand it's audience at all :/

I haven't got a Switch yet either (I was waiting for the inevitable Smash reveal) but the 1st game I get besides Smash is going to be Mario Odyssey!

 

[EarlTamm]

You know I once felt like that about Cloud too. He was such a out of nowhere choice for Smash i was taken aback, while everyone knows Geno would have been so much more hype. If at the time Cloud was revealed, if it was Geno instead that would have been beyond epic! I get that Cloud is the poster boy for FF and all, and I do love me some Final Fantasy don't get me wrong. But I feel like sometimes Nintendo doesn't understand it's audience at all :/

As much as I want to say otherwise, I will have to disagree. Yes, there would be hype around Geno, but not as much as Cloud, the poster boy of FF and one of the most iconic faces in Video Games. Sakurai chose him because of that, and I fully expect that. Plus, if you think about it for a moment, let's say Geno was first and Cloud would be put in Ultimate, would Cloud be as hype. Since Square would be involved, Cloud would become such a shoe in choice, it would get to the point of insanity. If Sakurai was thinking forward about Smash(Which considering the time frame he likely was), it would make sense to open up with big guns, then later do the more unexpected but still hype. That is how I like to think about it at least.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

You know I once felt like that about Cloud too. He was such a out of nowhere choice for Smash i was taken aback, while everyone knows Geno would have been so much more hype. If at the time Cloud was revealed, if it was Geno instead that would have been beyond epic! I get that Cloud is the poster boy for FF and all, and I do love me some Final Fantasy don't get me wrong. But I feel like sometimes Nintendo doesn't understand it's audience at all :/

I haven't got a Switch yet either (I was waiting for the inevitable Smash reveal) but the 1st game I get besides Smash is going to be Mario Odyssey!

I love Geno but I don't think he would have gotten a more hype reaction then Cloud. Geno we at least a possibility in peoples minds even if it was small. Cloud is something that if you said you wanted him in smash people would laugh at you and tell you it would never happen.
Cloud had a shock value very few characters could have achieved.

also Cloud is more on the scale of a character that everyone knows. while Geno is more niche in nature. which is why it still suprises me that we have come so far and he has achieved so much outcry for inclusion in smash. if you were to ask for any other character in the kind of place Geno is in then nobody would take you seriously. and yet here is our favorite doll. with support rivaling some of the big names and having the attention and love of Sakurai himself.

 

[SSGuy]

I can admit I've had my share of jeers and chuckles thrown my way when I use to say I want Geno in the game when compared to more 'modern' characters. It is common place but honestly, it amazes me how many others truly feel this strong about getting him in. The Smash community's support and Sakurai expressing his interest in him only fuels my desire to see Geno happen.

 

[FooltheFlames]

As much as I want to say otherwise, I will have to disagree. Yes, there would be hype around Geno, but not as much as Cloud, the poster boy of FF and one of the most iconic faces in Video Games. Sakurai chose him because of that, and I fully expect that. Plus, if you think about it for a moment, let's say Geno was first and Cloud would be put in Ultimate, would Cloud be as hype. Since Square would be involved, Cloud would become such a shoe in choice, it would get to the point of insanity. If Sakurai was thinking forward about Smash(Which considering the time frame he likely was), it would make sense to open up with big guns, then later do the more unexpected but still hype. That is how I like to think about it at least.

Once again, you make a really fair point. You know your Sakurai canon quite well~

I love Geno but I don't think he would have gotten a more hype reaction then Cloud. Geno we at least a possibility in peoples minds even if it was small. Cloud is something that if you said you wanted him in smash people would laugh at you and tell you it would never happen.
Cloud had a shock value very few characters could have achieved.

also Cloud is more on the scale of a character that everyone knows. while Geno is more niche in nature. which is why it still suprises me that we have come so far and he has achieved so much outcry for inclusion in smash. if you were to ask for any other character in the kind of place Geno is in then nobody would take you seriously. and yet here is our favorite doll. with support rivaling some of the big names and having the attention and love of Sakurai himself.

Yeah i was one of those who was shocked myself lol

Maybe it's my own bias, but I have always believed Geno was a much beloved and wanted character not just for Smash, but other games and stuff beyond them as well. So for a long time to me I was just seeing Geno finally getting the same recognition from the developers that the Nintendo fans had for him for years. So I guess what's most surprising to me is to hear that some people don't actually like Geno! I'm like, "How is that possible?" x'D

 

[Ze Diglett]

At first, I, too, was appalled upon seeing Cloud revealed and the subsequent Mii Costume of Geno; I saw it as a mockery of our efforts over the years, that this meme pick that was for so long on the level of Goku and Sans would be picked over our boy in blue and the latter reduced to a mere skin. For too long, I hated Cloud because of it, but over the years, my perspective changed, and I now view Cloud more as a blessing on our behalf than a curse for bringing Square Enix into the fold and smoothing negotiations between Sakurai and SE. (And let's be honest, thinking Geno was ever going to be the first Square Enix rep when Final Fantasy exists was kind of a dumb move in retrospect.) Besides, what would be better for us in the long run: for Geno to be shoved onto the end of Smash 4's DLC season with a lame trailer probably devoid of any unique animation, or for Geno to be saved for the "Ultimate" Smash, the one to please all the fans, the one that addresses all the long-ignored requests once and for all? I dunno about you, but I feel it's better this way, if it is meant to be all.

 

[EarlTamm]

So I guess what's most surprising to me is to hear that some people don't actually like Geno! I'm like, "How is that possible?" x'D

One reason I have heard(Not often mind you, and I wont pretend it is the biggest or even a main reason some people are against Geno) is that apparently Geno fans were not exactly the most kind back in the Brawl days. I find this a very negative way of thinking, going against a character because events from a decade ago when everyone was much younger in speculation, but I can see how things got bad on the Geno side. I mean, I assume they were holding out hope through Brawl speculation that he would have been an unannounced secret character, but they were instead greeted with R.O.B., which I could easily see sparking some flame wars. And looking back on it, I could easily some other parts of the Brawl roster causing disappointment, considering Brawl started out with Snake being introduced and those top most wanted lists happening, raising expectations higher than they could be satisfied. Sorry if I give anyone here some Brawl flashbacks, just trying to get some perspective on the whole thing.

 

[FooltheFlames]

One reason I have heard(Not often mind you, and I wont pretend it is the biggest or even a main reason some people are against Geno) is that apparently Geno fans were not exactly the most kind back in the Brawl days. I find this a very negative way of thinking, going against a character because events from a decade ago when everyone was much younger in speculation, but I can see how things got bad on the Geno side. I mean, I assume they were holding out hope through Brawl speculation that he would have been an unannounced secret character, but they were instead greeted with R.O.B., which I could easily see sparking some flame wars. And looking back on it, I could easily some other parts of the Brawl roster causing disappointment, considering Brawl started out with Snake being introduced and those top most wanted lists happening, raising expectations higher than they could be satisfied. Sorry if I give anyone here some Brawl flashbacks, just trying to get some perspective on the whole thing.

Yeah I could never truly hate Cloud for good but I still feel a bit salty over ROB's inclusion after all these years.. Honestly it's not even justified at this point. Hating certain characters just becuz your own didn't make it in is just an awful form of a scapegoat. It made me out to be like one of those types that got so angry over the amount of Fire Emblem characters included in the last game. im not so silly anymore tho.. i like to think so, at least ^^;

From what I remember things back then with brawl were no more different from now. There is always going to be the overzealous fan or two, the loud minority that unfairly paints the rest of the patient fans in a bad light. But an individual can always stop and look through all the mess to the real you~

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I agree with the sentiment that Cloud works better as a DLC reveal (and just a first square rep overall). I’m not saying his inclusion in Ultimate wouldn’t have been hype if Geno came first, but he’d be sharing the stage with everyone else. As a DLC fighter he gets all of the spotlight on his own reveal, and more importantly, he’s one of the most unexpected character picks given just no one really knew Square had any interest. Not to mention his limited history with Nintendo (Even if Final Fantasy does, and he’s the FF rep). He wasn’t personally important to me, but I still remember being like holy ****!

Geno seems like the natural next step to me, and also works better as a base roster pick for some reason in my mind. Since he’s not as well known, a treat for the fans with a spot on the base roster of Ultimate would seem fitting to me.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Well I think just in general people are against characters that are not in their lists of wanted characters. because only so many can get in and each slot taken lowers their chances.
Geno probably also gets a little more flack in comparison from the people who don't have invested interest in him because to them all they see is a one time long forgotten character. and to see him get in over [insert character here] would feel like an insult to them.

It's all rather petty but we know it to be true. and each of us are capable of it. I try to still be accepting of characters that are not my own wishes. try to be happy that at least somebody had their dream come true. but there definitely are still some characters that I wouldn't be thrilled about.

Cloud there wasn't a shred of salt for me personally. but that is because I was already a fan of Final Fantasy 7 from playing Crisis Core. and then once Cloud was revealed I picked up 7 on Steam and finished it before he came out. even with everything else that came with that direct, Corrin being an uninteresting pick, the Geno costume, and my general disinterested and neutral opinion on Bayonetta.

nothing could get me down because I was about to play Cloud really soon and I never thought I'd get to see that happen. still wish I could have had a Zack Fair skin though... maybe I'll get in echo fighter? xD yeah not happening. think I'd be one of the only few who would want that.

 

[TBone06]

As someone who loved Final Fantasy growing up, when I found out about Cloud I was blown away. The thing is as much as I love Geno, Cloud’s importance to gaming is much higher. It was out of left field, sure. But there is no denying he is an icon.

Obviously with the costume being revealed after that, I was a bit heartbroken, BUT after thinking about it and analyzing everything that happened, I realized that Cloud had to get in first. Most people outside of the Geno community don’t even know he’s owned by Square. I think Cloud’s inclusion put them on the map. The costume also breathed hope back into all of us as even though he wasn’t a playable character, Sakurai acknowledged his popularity and honestly gave me faith he will be included this time around. I’ve said it before, I’ll always be cautiously optimistic, but I believe this is his time.

 

[EarlTamm]

And honestly, we should be forever thankful for the costume. Think about it. Not only does it's existence showcase Geno is still in Sakurai's mind, the costume also prompted the interview to ask about Geno and have Sakurai reveal the bomb shell of Geno's viability and history with Smash.

 

[domriver]

I think the reason why we feel so strongly about Geno's chances for smash is a few things:
1. Cloud making it into smash - (square involvement)
2. Geno's Mii Costume ( with splash reveal - i dont think any other Costume got that treatment)
3. Sakurai's interview ( expressing desire to put Geno in smash since Brawl)

Be ready my fellow Geno members. With the above mentioned I have a pretty good feeling for Geno.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, everyone in the comments of that video is saying Geno's gonna get destroyed, and as much as I'm rooting for Geno, I can't help but feel that way as well, if the SiIvaGunner fanbase's undying love for unfunny memes is any indication. If he does beat them, though, I'll be pleasantly surprised, and if he doesn't, well, I'll probably just turn to the dark side and root for Unregistered Hypercam 2 instead. That, or I'll go true chaotic evil and root for Thanos so everyone has to put up with a full day of this.
...I just realized how weird this tournament is.
On that note, it's interesting to meet people who are still following SiIvaGunner on this forum. I was under the impression that everyone jumped ship on that meme cruise when he "died" back in 2016, understandably so.

No need to throw shade at Waluigi like that, man.

 

[EarlTamm]

I do have to say one thing about Cloud though, and it is something I find humerus. At the end of the day, Cloud is meant to represent all of FF, I am pretty sure Sakurai has confirmed that, and he fits that pretty well being so iconic and all. But at the end of the day, Cloud's history with Nintendo will forever be Square way of flipping the bird at Nintendo, with the move to Playstation and the disk format. I find that kinda funny.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I do have to say one thing about Cloud though, and it is something I find humerus. At the end of the day, Cloud is meant to represent all of FF, I am pretty sure Sakurai has confirmed that, and he fits that pretty well being so iconic and all. But at the end of the day, Cloud's history with Nintendo will forever be Square way of flipping the bird at Nintendo, with the move to Playstation and the disk format. I find that kinda funny.

I find it more funny that we managed to get Snake and Cloud in Smash before PlayStation All-Stars (Underrated if somewhat broken game). And might just end up with Crash as well before everything is said and done DLC wise if his huge resurgence in popularity impacts anything: