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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Icewolff92

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So, it's been a couple of days. How's everyone feeling about Geno's chances right now? Obviously, he's in a much worse position than he was before Sephiroth and the Mii costume, but I still don't think he's impossible. Mii costumes don't deconfirm. It's pretty clear that Nintendo is porting over all the costumes from Smash 4 because it's easy. I really think we were going to get the Geno costume regardless of whether or not Geno gets added.
Had his costume returned in the base, I would have been 100% with you on that Geno ain´t out. I mean, look at Min-Min, she is a spirit in the base roster. But here comes Geno as a Mii Costume, with another Square Enix (more importantly Square Soft, which both he and Sephiroth is), I think his chances are slim to non. If he wasn´t in, then making a fake-out with the Mii Costume would have been a perfect reveal, be it that Geno took over the Mii Costume, making it "the real deal", or he KO it, taking down his imposter. Granted, never say never... but you get the idea.

True, but ~2-3 years of development appears to be what Nintendo's willing to commit to most games that focus on online gameplay if Splatoon 2, Mario Maker 2, etc. are anything to go by.
When it comes to SMM2, they stopped supporting it in terms of content due to the game was a disappointment, unfortunately.

Well, if this Chun-Li “leak” from a long while back that also mentions Sephiroth, Steve, etc. alongside that SMRPG stuff turns out true, I guess we’ll have to start pushing for a new game specifically first, and make Nintendo know we want new Mario RPG stuff and that the Wahoominati’s dumbing down of the RPG stuff (if true, since they allowed a couple of remakes and stuff still) is completely unnecessary so they should take Square-Enix’s offer.
Would you mind refreshing my memory about the Chun-Li part?
 

MonkeyDLenny

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So, it's been a couple of days. How's everyone feeling about Geno's chances right now? Obviously, he's in a much worse position than he was before Sephiroth and the Mii costume, but I still don't think he's impossible. Mii costumes don't deconfirm. It's pretty clear that Nintendo is porting over all the costumes from Smash 4 because it's easy. I really think we were going to get the Geno costume regardless of whether or not Geno gets added.
I dunno why this needs to keep being explained

Costumes from 4 being promoted in Ultimate makes sense, they even brought them back for base game. Post-launch Mii Costumes make zero sense to later be promoted in this game, because if they were coming at all they wouldn't BE mii costumes that they'd be selling us now.

We've taken EVERY post-launch mii fighter to equal a deconfirm so why are we walking it back now just because the one we wanted got costumed? Heihachi and Travis were two big deconfirms that everyone accepted because they got costumed, so selling us Geno's costume now just to give him to us later in this pass (or a third if it happens) makes no sense.

It isn't a fan-rule, it's a consolation prize
 

TheCJBrine

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Would you mind refreshing my memory about the Chun-Li part?
The rumor is here:

The “leaker” seems to think she was replaced with Ken, but he also thought the others he mentioned like Steve and Tales of protagonists were gone, and that Sephiroth’s spot was given to DQ, so potentially it could be true.
 

ForsakenM

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I dunno why this needs to keep being explained

Costumes from 4 being promoted in Ultimate makes sense, they even brought them back for base game. Post-launch Mii Costumes make zero sense to later be promoted in this game, because if they were coming at all they wouldn't BE mii costumes that they'd be selling us now.

We've taken EVERY post-launch mii fighter to equal a deconfirm so why are we walking it back now just because the one we wanted got costumed? Heihachi and Travis were two big deconfirms that everyone accepted because they got costumed, so selling us Geno's costume now just to give him to us later in this pass (or a third if it happens) makes no sense.

It isn't a fan-rule, it's a consolation prize
Heihachi wasn't big and Travis was mostly pushed by big YTubers who thought he was likely becase "New Game On Switch = Character In Smash"

It is a fan rule. If and when Vol 3 happens, they can put in whoever they negotiate for, which would be Geno or Travis or Leon if they so choose at that time. Just because you think they will do it one way doesn't mean they will.
 

Fatmanonice

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Would Geno's Mii costume being a fake out be scummy? Oh yes, absolutely. Would it still sell well and grab headlines for weeks afterwards? Absolutely too. People were fuming after Plant and Byleth but there's no doubt in my mind that both sold ridiculously well and Nintendo was skiing down money piles afterwards. Geno wouldn't be any different and he has the added benefit of actually being wanted. Honestly, it would be more or less the same case for any Mii Costume or Assist Trophy (spirits too if you really want to make yourself uncomfortable) "why didn't they just do it in the first place? Why am I paying extra for something that could have been in base?" It's all paid DLC either way soo if you wanted to turn the cynicism up to 11, you could make an argument that 3 years of slow drip, piece work DLC is scummy too. There's kind of no avoiding it.
 

NapoleonBeezwax

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C cosmicB DLenny
look, i really do understand why ppl think mii costumes deconfirm, it makes perfect sense

but, come on, is it *really that much of a scummy move com pared to some of the other stuff nintendo has done these days?? 60 dollar wiiu ports, limited editions, joy cons drift, limited editions

suddenly it doesnt sound to out of the ordinary at all

not saying it wont happen, but the scummy arguments sucks
 

pinshadow

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Heihachi wasn't big and Travis was mostly pushed by big YTubers who thought he was likely becase "New Game On Switch = Character In Smash"

It is a fan rule. If and when Vol 3 happens, they can put in whoever they negotiate for, which would be Geno or Travis or Leon if they so choose at that time. Just because you think they will do it one way doesn't mean they will.
You know what this feels like to me? Goalpost moving and bargaining, based on the ASSUMPTION we're getting a Pass 3. An assumption that, in my eyes, doesn't have enough evidence to support it. We're halfway through Pass 2 at this point, and Sakurai has made it remarkably clear that Pass 2 is the last Smash thing he's planning on doing for a long time. Are there weird things like the datamined slots, the extremely odd December 2021 deadline, and the weird amount of stage slots left over that point towards SOMETHING potentially happening outside of Pass 2? Sure, but nothing specifically towards Pass 3, and CERTAINLY nothing that makes Geno anymore likely.

I mean we literally just had a microcosm of misinterpreting information based on a lack on context occur this week. We saw weird stuff going on with the in-game sites posts, made an assumption it meant that Sephiroth would only come with one costume, when it reality the weirdness stemmed from something completely different, Sephiroth himself getting released a week earlier than his Mii Costume wave. All I'm saying his that for the time being it's a better idea to take the costume, as well as what Sakurai has said, at face value until the situation actually changes.
 
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Urso_Ornitier

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Dec 18, 2020
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49
You can’t introduce everybody to a new game if they already know about. Sephiroth can only sale for Nintendo on the fact that he is Sephiroth alone.

Having Cloud in game already brings attention to FF7. Why would people ignore doing research for Cloud, but suddenly want to look at it when Sephiroth appears?

It is also a business move just for a splash card when a chocobo hat appears and it goes SSM X Final Fantasy.

Thinking of Sephiroth as a business tool to introduce new people to the series just doesn’t logically pan out.
 

Fatmanonice

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C cosmicB DLenny
look, i really do understand why ppl think mii costumes deconfirm, it makes perfect sense

but, come on, is it *really that much of a scummy move com pared to some of the other stuff nintendo has done these days?? 60 dollar wiiu ports, limited editions, joy cons drift, limited editions

suddenly it doesnt sound to out of the ordinary at all

not saying it wont happen, but the scummy arguments sucks
Which is depressing to admit but, yeah, on the Nintendo side of things, a 75 cent costume turning into 6 dollar character somewhere down the road isn't exactly the con of the century. They know most people would still buy it without hesitation and an honest to god fake out would easily make it one of the biggest pieces of gaming news that year. People moan and groan about the possibility of an 8th gen Pokemon rep but you can bet your ass that every tournament you went to had Cinderace available or whoever they chose. They could add a summer sausage with Mr. Potato Head parts as a fighter and just about every Smash fan you know would have Willy the Wigglin' Weiner downloaded by the end of that week. If they can shatter records with Sword and Shield after pissing off fans on a weekly basis for 6 months straight, I think Geno would be fine. If Mario 3D All Stars can blow the doors off the hinges sales wise with minimal additions aside from polished graphics, Geno hardly counts as a cardinal sin. IDEALLY, I wouldn't want that to happen but can I see it happening? You bet your low-stock SNES ClASSic I could.
 

Rocketjay8

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You can’t introduce everybody to a new game if they already know about. Sephiroth can only sale for Nintendo on the fact that he is Sephiroth alone.

Having Cloud in game already brings attention to FF7. Why would people ignore doing research for Cloud, but suddenly want to look at it when Sephiroth appears?

It is also a business move just for a splash card when a chocobo hat appears and it goes SSM X Final Fantasy.

Thinking of Sephiroth as a business tool to introduce new people to the series just doesn’t logically pan out.
Speak for yourself. I started to play FF7 when the direct happened. It even had a 7 dollar discount so it was really good timing.
 

MonkeyDLenny

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C cosmicB DLenny
look, i really do understand why ppl think mii costumes deconfirm, it makes perfect sense

but, come on, is it *really that much of a scummy move com pared to some of the other stuff nintendo has done these days?? 60 dollar wiiu ports, limited editions, joy cons drift, limited editions

suddenly it doesnt sound to out of the ordinary at all
This is what we've arrived at? Post-launch mii costumes suddenly don't deconfirm because "Well Nintendo is scummy! Of COURSE they'd sell us the same character later!"

8356BEC4-03DD-4229-B8E5-9EF6AA0AFCD3.jpeg
 

NapoleonBeezwax

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Dec 13, 2020
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51
it hurts to think that if just geno had a real head instead of that garbage mii face, the reaction wouldve been a lot better. sans and cuphead were received so well i have no idea what went wrong
 

Powerman293

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Messages
886
Would Geno's Mii costume being a fake out be scummy? Oh yes, absolutely. Would it still sell well and grab headlines for weeks afterwards? Absolutely too. People were fuming after Plant and Byleth but there's no doubt in my mind that both sold ridiculously well and Nintendo was skiing down money piles afterwards. Geno wouldn't be any different and he has the added benefit of actually being wanted. Honestly, it would be more or less the same case for any Mii Costume or Assist Trophy (spirits too if you really want to make yourself uncomfortable) "why didn't they just do it in the first place? Why am I paying extra for something that could have been in base?" It's all paid DLC either way soo if you wanted to turn the cynicism up to 11, you could make an argument that 3 years of slow drip, piece work DLC is scummy too. There's kind of no avoiding it.
The trailer starts with Donkey Kong opening his mouth and Diddy, K Rool and Banjo are hanging out....
 

ForsakenM

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You know what this feels like to me? Goalpost moving and bargaining, based on the ASSUMPTION we're getting a Pass 3. An assumption that, in my eyes, doesn't have enough evidence to support it. We're halfway through Pass 2 at this point, and Sakurai has made it remarkably clear that Pass 2 is the last Smash thing he's planning on doing for a long time. Are there weird things like the datamined slots, the extremely odd December 2021 deadline, and the weird amount of stage slots left over that point towards SOMETHING potentially happening outside of Pass 2? Sure, but nothing specifically towards Pass 3, and CERTAINLY nothing that makes Geno anymore likely.

I mean we literally just had a microcosm of misinterpreting information based on a lack on context occur this week. We saw weird stuff going on with the in-game sites posts, made an assumption it meant that Sephiroth would only come with one costume, when it reality the weirdness stemmed from something completely different, Sephiroth himself getting released a week earlier than his Mii Costume wave. All I'm saying his that for the time being it's a better idea to take the costume, as well as what Sakurai has said, at face value until the situation actually changes.
Fun fact, I didn't agree with your thought process of there only being one costume the entire time. It was really stupid and made no sense to me. I see that you grabbed information to make such an assumption, but I was never on that train because there was too much opportunity for more FF content and more FF costumes to believe such a silly thing. Literally no one here combated against you saying 'Well maybe there is another announcement that is happening' or literally anything else, they just trusted you blindly. Guess who was wrong.

There is no goalpost moving: I'm the one here who has said that you literally need to accept that Travis, Heihachi or Leon or many others who got costumes or Spirit Events can still happen later on in a new pass if you also think Geno can happen, as otherwise it's bias and favoritism. I'm also the one who suggested months ago that we should not write off Spirit Events when it comes to future content because fan demand can make things happen.

However, Heihachi isn't nearly as requested as Geno is, and facts are most of Travis's pull happened after the announcement of DLC because NMH3 was being talked about. Where was Travis during Brawl speculation or Smash 4 speculation? No where for Brawl because he game came out shortly after Brawl, and no where to be seen during Smash 4 days for some reason, likely because he just wasn't that popular of a pick.

Also, saying that 'Sakurai said Pass 2 is the end' and acting like that means anything when Nintendo likes money and Sakurai is enjoying development on the game much more this way seems to be more ignorant of the signs of possibility than what I'm saying.
 

NapoleonBeezwax

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Fatmanonice Fatmanonice one thing i have to call you out for, you called the costume a small road block but then said that after march it would need a miracle for geno to somehow be playable. Thats not a small road block
 

super88cloud

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MonkeyDLenny MonkeyDLenny nice how you took out the last part of my post to make me look stupid real mature
Because it's ridiculous at face value. This is too far from nintys modus operandi.
There's hope and there's self delusion.
And half of the regulars are delusional at the point that they're equal to the people who still think trump's gonna remain president.
Except you guys aren't major assholes.
 
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Forthestarcapelad

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Which is depressing to admit but, yeah, on the Nintendo side of things, a 75 cent costume turning into 6 dollar character somewhere down the road isn't exactly the con of the century. They know most people would still buy it without hesitation and an honest to god fake out would easily make it one of the biggest pieces of gaming news that year. People moan and groan about the possibility of an 8th gen Pokemon rep but you can bet your ass that every tournament you went to had Cinderace available or whoever they chose. They could add a summer sausage with Mr. Potato Head parts as a fighter and just about every Smash fan you know would have Willy the Wigglin' Weiner downloaded by the end of that week. If they can shatter records with Sword and Shield after pissing off fans on a weekly basis for 6 months straight, I think Geno would be fine. If Mario 3D All Stars can blow the doors off the hinges sales wise with minimal additions aside from polished graphics, Geno hardly counts as a cardinal sin. IDEALLY, I wouldn't want that to happen but can I see it happening? You bet your low-stock SNES ClASSic I could.
Can confirm that I would main Willy the Wigglin'Weiner.
What? Why are you all laughing?
 

Fatmanonice

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This is what we've arrived at? Post-launch mii costumes suddenly don't deconfirm because "Well Nintendo is scummy! Of COURSE they'd sell us the same character later!"

View attachment 296470
But is it really that unbelievable though? Like I said earlier to cosmicB, the door is 3 Mii costumes from slamming shut on "non scummy" Mii costume upgrades that people actually want and the odds of them cutting literally one DLC costume doesn't look great either. Hell, a lot of people still want Rex and the only way you could get his Mii costume is if you flat out bought the Fighter's Pass so, ironically, Rex's Mii costume was 4 times more expensive then if they made him a pack.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Because it's ridiculous at face value. This is too far from nintys modus operandi.
There's hope and there's self delusion.
And half of the regulars are delusional at the point that they're equal to the people who still think trump's gonna remain president.
I swear people are living in an alternate reality. The amount of people who think geno has high probability are dwarfed by the people coming in here and saying they're everywhere, and the people who think it'd be nice 2 be surprised, but aren't holding their breaths
 

AceAttorney9000

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Just my humble opinion here, but if it turns out that this whole Mii Costume business with Geno's coming back with Sephiroth is just one big fake-out setup for a playable Geno coming later... I would not be mad that Nintendo is selling the same character "twice". I would instead be happy that, in the end, Geno ended up making it in after all.

Same goes for other characters. If Mii Costume'd and Assist Trophy'd characters like Rex, Heihachi, Travis, Isaac, and Waluigi were made DLC, I would be excited that these characters ended up being playable. If a Capcom character is revealed for this pass with a Mii Fighter costume based on one of my most wanted characters, Phoenix Wright, only for Wright to end up playable later on? I wouldn't be mad that I was duped, bamboozled, and smeckledorfed, because I'd be too busy celebrating the Ace Attorney himself finally coming to Smash.

Can confirm that I would main Willy the Wigglin'Weiner.
What? Why are you all laughing?
Leaked screenshot of Willy the Wigglin' Weiner's stage...
Weenie_Hut_Juniors.png
 

Powerman293

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Only way I could see Geno getting added to Ultimate is if they ported the game to the next Nintendo console with some new characters. That would reset the Mii Costume double dipping issue since I would assume it would include ALL of the DLC.
 

Fatmanonice

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Fatmanonice Fatmanonice one thing i have to call you out for, you called the costume a small road block but then said that after march it would need a miracle for geno to somehow be playable. Thats not a small road block
Because after the official end of the Mario 35 celebration, the timing of Geno's addition would be weird. Geno coming next September, for example, would be a lot weirder than March when major Mario announcements are still a monthly occurrence.
 

Urso_Ornitier

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Because it's ridiculous at face value. This is too far from nintys modus operandi.
There's hope and there's self delusion.
And half of the regulars are delusional at the point that they're equal to the people who still think trump's gonna remain president.
Except you guys aren't major assholes.
Just because we aren’t flat out saying we don’t think there is a high chance doesn’t mean that’s what we feel. I haven’t seen anyone say he has a super high chance.

I just see people talking about the possibilities and what can open those doors.
 

pinshadow

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Fun fact, I didn't agree with your thought process of there only being one costume the entire time. It was really stupid and made no sense to me. I see that you grabbed information to make such an assumption, but I was never on that train because there was too much opportunity for more FF content and more FF costumes to believe such a silly thing. Literally no one here combated against you saying 'Well maybe there is another announcement that is happening' or literally anything else, they just trusted you blindly. Guess who was wrong.

There is no goalpost moving: I'm the one here who has said that you literally need to accept that Travis, Heihachi or Leon or many others who got costumes or Spirit Events can still happen later on in a new pass if you also think Geno can happen, as otherwise it's bias and favoritism. I'm also the one who suggested months ago that we should not write off Spirit Events when it comes to future content because fan demand can make things happen.

However, Heihachi isn't nearly as requested as Geno is, and facts are most of Travis's pull happened after the announcement of DLC because NMH3 was being talked about. Where was Travis during Brawl speculation or Smash 4 speculation? No where for Brawl because he game came out shortly after Brawl, and no where to be seen during Smash 4 days for some reason, likely because he just wasn't that popular of a pick.

Also, saying that 'Sakurai said Pass 2 is the end' and acting like that means anything when Nintendo likes money and Sakurai is enjoying development on the game much more this way seems to be more ignorant of the signs of possibility than what I'm saying.
Nintendo has a very consistent history of dropping support for extremely popular games, even when the demand is obviously there. Just look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, or Splatoon 2. Frankly Nintendo, in yet another example of their more traditional, conservative approach compared to most other studios (though in this case not inherently negative), is that they see more value in producing new games, rather than the live service approach of supporting a single game for years and years. At best you'll get about a year of support, maybe two if the game does super well, and then the developers will move onto something else.

Sakurai has been working on nothing but Smash for 8 years, and as much as he clearly enjoys it, he's also made a point of just how much it takes out of him. If there is a Pass 3, then fine, but there's really nothing that supports the idea beyond "well Nintendo likes money!". Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold tens of millions, they would easily make more from a 10 dollar track pack than multiple new games combined, and they choose not to.
 
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Cahalan

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I literally don't give a flying **** if there are people dunking on us who still have some microscopic bit of hope that Geno still has a chance to make it in.
I don't care about them because they're gonna be like us in a few months when their picks aren't looking too hot and the shoe is gonna be on the other foot.

I won't berate them for having hope in their picks still having a shot, but I'm not going to be embracing them with open arms.
A lot of the people that are memeing on us right now are gonna have a lot of self-reflecting to do in case the unthinkable happens.

I post my thoughts on the situation as they come to me. If Geno's still happening or not, we have another year of this bs to go through to be sure.

At the very least, make it easier on us who still have some hope by not curb-stomping us every 5 seconds.
 

cmbsfm

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Forthestarcapelad

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No way! I was literally going to take a similar screen cap after the costume released. Nice nod to the Culex Battle. Although more people used Peach over Bowser. That team is doomed due to no healer.
Probably one of the few things I'm not so big on with Mario RPG. It feels a bit stifling in terms of what teams have the best shot at working.. I mean sure, there's probably a little room for leeway in there with choosing what stats you want to focus on most for some characters, but eh, in my experience it's always made easiest by just going with Peach and Geno. Still love the game of course.
 

Rocketjay8

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You had never heard of Final Fantasy before Sephiroth?
I heard of FInal fantasy before Sephiroth, but it wasn't until I saw Sephiroth was in smash I decided to give FF7 a try. Keep in mind that the time that Cloud was in smash 4, I didn't really have the chance to play it since I didn't have a PC to run it. Or the correct console to play it. ( I only had a Wii U and a 3DS at the time.)
 
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ForsakenM

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Nintendo has a very consistent history of dropping support for extremely popular games, even when the demand is obviously there. Just look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, or Splatoon 2. Frankly Nintendo, in yet another example of their more traditional, conservative approach compared to most other studios (though in this case not inherently negative), is that they see more value in producing new games, rather than the live service approach of supporting a single game for years and years. At best you'll get about a year of support, maybe two if the game does super well, and then the developers will move onto something else.

Sakurai has been working on nothing but Smash for 8 years, and as much as he clearly enjoys it, he's also made a point of just how much it takes out of him. If there is a Pass 3, then fine, but there's really nothing that supports the idea beyond "well Nintendo likes money!". Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold tens of millions, they would easily make more from a 10 dollar track pack than multiple new games combined, and they choose not to.
I would normally agree with you, and I will admit that there is much past precedent that suggests Nintendo will do the same here, but I also feel that this is the prime opportunity for them to have learned what works and what doesn't and base of the results of other companies doing similar things.

Also, Smash is a lot easier to monetize than those two games. As far as I know, new costumes and stuff for Splatoon were all free updates. I think that Mario Kart Tour is proof you COULD charge for new Karters in a game where the kart racer offers more to the game than just a face and a couple of stats, but Smash is better off for monetization because you get a whole new character with a new moveset and mechanics, a new stage, new music and new spirits.
 

MarioRaccoon

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Does anyone known how is the structure of Namco-Bandai Smash team ? Namco-Bandai act as a contractor to Nintendo (they paid and N-B developed the game). I suppose that Ultimate base game team got reduced for FP1 as they rotate their employees to other projects. Thus, I think that the “31/12/2021” placeholder date is just the day the contract between Ninty and N-B ends, and smash team workers can go to work on other internal projects.

So, Sakurai team has 1 more year to work on smash, they need to finish the second FP and if they do it earlier than end 2021, they have 2 options. 1) end Smash Ultimate development, 2) continue doing other things like more Mii Costumes, stages or bonus fighters until end 2021.

Of course Nintendo can re-negotiate the contract with N-B but who knows what plans they have later. Maybe they have arranged to develop a new game (not necessary another Smash, N-B helps a lot with Nintendo) after Ultimate development ceases.
 

Rocketjay8

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Nintendo has a very consistent history of dropping support for extremely popular games, even when the demand is obviously there. Just look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, or Splatoon 2. Frankly Nintendo, in yet another example of their more traditional, conservative approach compared to most other studios (though in this case not inherently negative), is that they see more value in producing new games, rather than the live service approach of supporting a single game for years and years. At best you'll get about a year of support, maybe two if the game does super well, and then the developers will move onto something else.

Sakurai has been working on nothing but Smash for 8 years, and as much as he clearly enjoys it, he's also made a point of just how much it takes out of him. If there is a Pass 3, then fine, but there's really nothing that supports the idea beyond "well Nintendo likes money!". Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold tens of millions, they would easily make more from a 10 dollar track pack than multiple new games combined, and they choose not to.
Keep in mind that Splatoon 2's updates were free for 2 years (except for the Octo Expansion Pass). I can't really blame them for having a 2 year limit since those updates costs time and money.
 
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