Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Hero's Mii costume gives us a good idea on how Sephiroth's Mii costume segment will likely play out:

1. The video starts with Veronica, who is a party member in DQ XI. As I said in my last post, not only are new Mii costumes always first but so is the character's personal game, in this case Final Fantasy VII.

2. Next is Erdrick and the rest of the costumes are under "Dragon Quest."

3. Next is the Martial Artists. Costumes with male/female forms always come after "characters."

4. It ends on Slime. Hats are always last when showcasing a game or a franchise. Because Chocobo falls under the Final Fantasy umbrella, it would be the absolute last Final Fantasy one shown. If Geno happens, he will be immediately following this.

So, this established, the "tier list" of what typically determines order:

1. Game the playable character actually comes from.

If not present...

2. Franchise the playable character comes from.

If not present...

3. Franchise new to Smash.

This is how the first costume always goes down. From there...

4. Old costumes from Smash 4.

This part is important because this is either the middle or the end. It's the end if the pack has no new Mii costumes totally unrelated to the playable character or their franchise.

5. New franchise totally unrelated to the playable character and doesn't have a Mii costume yet. This happened with 4 of the 7 packs, usually ending on a standalone Mii costume rep.

 

[G0nard]

I don't see it likely and I don't want to be the bad guy but couldn't Cacomallow be real and have Geno as a Premium Mii Costume? Cacodemon would be coming later, and the costumes for Thursday could be like Tifa, Barrett, Black Mage, Chocobo, Geno (Premium), and Mallow. The Cacomallow video never showed that Geno didn't exist.

I've always been on team real for Cacomallow just because it always looked pretty good and I've had no real reason to believe otherwise.

At this point we're both looking at this differently and you're right it is possible that we can get Both Geno and Mallow as Mii costumes but as I stated I don't believe an OLD Mii costume was partnered with a NEW one, you could argue that "this could be a first you never know" and you'd be right, I'm more or less looking at this situation with a glass half full

 

[Firox]

I'm still super curious what will happen if by some miracle Geno's costume DOESN'T show up on Thursday. It's incredibly unlikely that they wouldn't even bother to drop the cheapy costume from Sm4sh. The only rational scenarios for his costume not showing up would be:

A) Another SE character is gonna drop somewhere else in the pass
or
B) Geno himself is coming sometime later

I really don't see any other logical conclusion. Thoughts?

 

[JarBear]

Ah Indie Direct, that kinda seals the deal for me for any possible Nintendo announcements or even a teaser video or tweet or something like "more DLC is coming!" kind of thing for Smash before the Seph. video. I can't see the Geno costume NOT coming without some kind of tease about more DLC or something. If it is missing, that's showing their cards ... unless it pops up with another FP2 fighter.

Anyway, I am going to the presentation with 99% certainty that Geno Mii is coming back. I'll be curious to see if the Mallow hat is real or not. Time will tell. Ugh, Thursday. Still glad I haven't purchased the pass. It doesn't have any heart yet ... just "what's popular/relevant/corporate pushed stuff. I want a Banjo/Terry tier character man. Give the pass some character man.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm still super curious what will happen if by some miracle Geno's costume DOESN'T show up on Thursday. It's incredibly unlikely that they wouldn't even bother to drop the cheapy costume from Sm4sh. The only rational scenarios for his costume not showing up would be:

A) Another SE character is gonna drop somewhere else in the pass
or
B) Geno himself is coming sometime later

I really don't see any other logical conclusion. Thoughts?

If Geno's costume doesn't return Thursday I think he's a lock. Why? Because if he's not going to be playable, why didn't they bring his Mii costume back in the previous 2 Square-Enix packs? Because he's playable most obliviously.

 

[Firox]

If Geno's costume doesn't return Thursday I think he's a lock. Why? Because if he's not going to be playable, why didn't they bring his Mii costume back in the previous 2 Square-Enix packs? Because he's playable most obliviously.

That's what I'm thinking too. Basically, Thursday will be all or nothing. Costume is in? He's dead. Costume isn't? LET'S GOOOOOOOOO!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

That's what I'm thinking too. Basically, Thursday will be all or nothing. Costume is in? He's dead. Costume isn't? LET'S GOOOOOOOOO!

And like I said earlier, since the Mario 35th anniversary celebration is ending in March and 2021 is SMRPG's 25th anniversary, I think if Geno is in Fighter's Pass 2 he's next.

 

[Firox]

And like I said earlier, since the Mario 35th anniversary celebration is ending in March and 2021 is SMRPG's 25th anniversary, I think if Geno is in Fighter's Pass 2 he's next.

See, I'm really on the fence when it comes to the sheer timing of everything. Reason's why Geno could hypothetically be next:

-SMRPG anniversary
-Mario 35th anniversary
-The fact that a gunner-type character would add some variety to our recent swordfighter addition
-The fact that if Cacomallow/all other insinuations of Geno carry ANY water, then he has to be relatively soon

That said, some reasons why Geno doesn't seem likely to be next even if the costume doesn't show up:

-We JUST got an SE rep. It would be insanely unprecedented to not only triple dip from the same third party company, but double dip in the same pass and back to back no less. I mean, literally anything is possible, but the chances seems astronomically low to me, all things considered

-I feel like Nintendo/Sakurai would be self aware enough to realize that omitting Geno's costume would be pretty much as good as a confirmation. Then again, if that's true, I suppose they would have to tease Geno immediately after the Sephiroth showcase since we'd basically know he's coming anyway. (OK, in retrospect, this bullet point doesn't seem like a con to Geno coming sooner rather than later. I suppose the point above is the primary sticking point)

-(EDIT) Nintendo has historically shown virtually ZERO regard for specific anniversaries dates.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This is the same company that avoided the chance to make Sephiroth who is from Final Fantasy VII be the 7th CP and be number 77 total. I don’t think they really care about anniversaries or timing. Or anything of the like.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Not super related but in case anyone didn't see already you can preorder the Banjo amiibo on Best Buy.

Really hoping we will continue to get these amiibo. I'll keep hoping Geno has a chance so he can get one! Even tho I don't personally care much about Banjo I am getting the amiibo because I think it's cool to have the character get an official product from Nintendo. I will probably also get Steve and Sephiroth because of how crazy it is they are in the game even tho I also don't care about them.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is the same company that avoided the chance to make Sephiroth who is from Final Fantasy VII be the 7th CP and be number 77 total. I don’t think they really care about anniversaries or timing. Or anything of the like.

You say that but there's decent evidence that there was supposed to be a release in September thanks to a number of things like Amiibo releases. Hero and Joker were originally scheduled for September 18th according to the Polish Amiibo leak in May which suggests a character was supposed to release in early September. Coincidentally, both of Cloud's Amiibos were rereleased around this time too.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Personally I just hope we get SOMETHING Thursday. I’ll even take the Wii U costume getting a copy paste job. It would be a real shame to not have anything.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m gonna go with some predictions if Geno hypothetically isn’t a costume with Sephiroth

Tifa - Brawler

Barret - Gunner

Black Mage/Onion Knight - Swordfighter

FF/Square Sword Protagonist - Swordfighter

Chocobo Hat

They all seem pretty reasonable.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

You say that but there's decent evidence that there was supposed to be a release in September thanks to a number of things like Amiibo releases. Hero and Joker were originally scheduled for September 18th according to the Polish Amiibo leak in May which suggests a character was supposed to release in early September. Coincidentally, both of Cloud's Amiibos were rereleased around this time too.

So would you say that the planned release schedule for characters if we didn't have the pandemic would be something like:

Min Min- April
Steve- July
Sephiroth- September

 

[okamifire]

I will admit that if we don't get a Geno costume with this pack (either the old one or a PreMiium one) I will be rather confused, and while it won't be a lock in my mind, it does make it feel a bit more promising. That'd be an interesting thing to happen, I wouldn't really know what to think.

 

[Paraspikey]

Let's be hopeful this wave, the battle isn't over just yet.
I believe.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

You say that but there's decent evidence that there was supposed to be a release in September thanks to a number of things like Amiibo releases. Hero and Joker were originally scheduled for September 18th according to the Polish Amiibo leak in May which suggests a character was supposed to release in early September. Coincidentally, both of Cloud's Amiibos were rereleased around this time too.

To be completely fair, September is only the NA release of FFVII so I’m not 100% sure they were targeting that month for Sephiroth but it is a possibility.

I feel like, because of COVID a majority of the reveals, and possibly releases, got shifted. And since they got shifted Nintendo began to target specific events to line up with Smash reveals. I don’t think Steve lining up with Minecon or Sephiroth lining up with TGA is a coincidence but I’m also not 100% sure that was always the original plan.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So would you say that the planned release schedule for characters if we didn't have the pandemic would be something like:

Min Min- April
Steve- July
Sephiroth- September

According to Sakurai, Steve released around the time he was supposed to release so I think it was going to be:

Min Min: June
Sephiroth: September
Steve: October

Under these parameters, the gaps between the characters would have been very similar to Joker, Hero, and Banjo in 2019.

 

[Nekoo]

I'm going to be very much honest with you guys. (And probably going to repost this in the newcomer speculation)
First of all, even if my avatar might says otherwise, I'm a Square-Enix fans and JPRG nerd first and foremost, and Sephiroth Inclusion was an absolute delight for me.
However, one thing I think that is good to understand is that Sephiroth inclusion is big, EXTREMELY Big, and it's mother****ing Sephiroth. If he's in, it's because Nintendo and Sakurai wanted him. Not because he was a replacement for Sora cuz talks fell through/Or because SE said no to Geno cuz LOL MUH OBSCURE

Sephiroth is Sephiroth, Mother****ing Sephiroth THE edgy Anime Swordsman and probably in the top 3/4 of most influencial Gamin Vilain ever.
But the other thing that this pass teached us, is that I truly believe this pack was tailored for fans in mind, and I'm going to go on a hunch that the budget for it was MUCH bigger...Steve was in talks for years apparently, and Sephiroth is ****ing sephiroth, they probably didn't get him for a cereal box price.

While you guys might not see it as "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MOST ASKED CHARACTERS" I'm going to counter that with "VIDEO-GAMES FANS" beside Min-Min which was literally to be said to be a demand from Nintendo Themselves, Steve and Sephiroth? They're not Heavy hitter...They're HUMONGUS hitters in terms of Video Games influence, who probably beat any of the characters of FP1 by themselves (probably only contested by Hero in term of influence)

Which makes me think, that this pass? Nintendo/Sakurai, they're just going to asks for characters they want, and probably get them they probably don't care about double dipping a dev (Microsoft/SE) or even a franchise (FF7)... So, I'm going go on a hunch that, unless the dreaded Mii Costume shows up, Geno might come down latter down the line. I can't see this pass not having AT LEAST one "Fan Favorite" like Banjo-Kazooie were for FP1

And really in term of long "Fan Favorites" ? We don't have much left beside Geno, Sora, Crash? And what? We actually probably have all if not most of the "Never ever" possible and even more with ****ing Sephiroth joining in.

Wait until the 17th, but don't lose hope.

But at the same time,take a deep breath, and remember, in the end, it's all a video games, and the company/The devs are not here to torture you guys by not putting your characters, they try to do their best with what they have and get.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I will admit that if we don't get a Geno costume with this pack (either the old one or a PreMiium one) I will be rather confused, and while it won't be a lock in my mind, it does make it feel a bit more promising. That'd be an interesting thing to happen, I wouldn't really know what to think.

I completely agree with you, in fact Geno's costume not showing up would make me feel more uneasy than "HOLY CRAP HE HAS A SHOT!" I'd rather have his costume return than no costume at all, and I don't even want to imagine the scenario where the most Geno gets is his spirit.

 

[Deleted member]

It’s like almost every JRPG protagonist ever has a sword has its main weapon. I get swords are like one of the most common weapons in Fantasy but a bit overused. There could be more diversity in my opinion. Not that I’m trying to complain... but... it’s crazy.

 

[okamifire]

It’s like almost every JRPG protagonist ever has a sword has its main weapon. I get swords are like one of the most common weapons in Fantasy but a bit overused. There could be more diversity in my opinion. Not that I’m trying to complaining... but... it’s crazy.

I'm not sure that many other characters have an 8 or 9 foot sword though. Plus, Sephiroth is the anime swordsman. It looks like he has a variety of other non-sword moves too, which is cool.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The more I think about it the better I feel about Geno. I've already established a lot of my reasoning but more things I've considered:

For Geno to be genuinely in trouble for this pack, multiple of the following would need to happen:

-Sephiroth's costume count is 5 or a full 6.

-Final Fantasy VII only gets one or no Mii costumes. (This has only happened when the playable character's franchise doesn't get Mii costumes at all.)

-Final Fantasy's only Mii costume is the Chocobo hat (in other words, no full Mii costumes at all. This has yet to happen in Ultimate's DLC).

-Sephiroth is the first swordfighter that has less than two swordfighter Miis.

-Sephiroth is only the second pack with no Brawlers.

-Sephiroth is the first pack in 11 months to get multiple Smash 4 DLC costumes.

-Sephiroth is only the third pack with both a new and old gunner.

-Sephiroth is the first pack where the old and new gunner are from the same company.

 

[Firox]

I completely agree with you, in fact Geno's costume not showing up would make me feel more uneasy than "HOLY CRAP HE HAS A SHOT!" I'd rather have his costume return than no costume at all, and I don't even want to imagine the scenario where the most Geno gets is his spirit.

If it's any consolation, I'm honestly 99.9999% sure that there is no way Nintendo would just leave Geno a spirit and call it a day. As I've said dozens of times before, the original Geno costume already exists. They wouldn't have to do anything to it at all to sell it with Sephiroth and make a decent about of cash off it. There is virtually zero logic whatsoever for Nintendo and SE to not drop the costume out of sheer convenience alone. There is literally only one reason, period, that Geno would get absolutely nothing more than a spirit, and that reason would be that Nintendo and SE have decided that Geno is best left forgotten and that they are subtly trying to let Geno fade into the past a la what Nintendo is trying to do to Melee. The thing is, this one reason in and of itself would make no sense. If Nintendo/SE were hellbent on erasing future Geno demand, then they wouldn't have thrown us a bone with the spirit in the first place.

Long story short, we will be getting the Geno costume at minimum whether it's now or later. Bank on it...Nintendo sure will.

 

[MisterMike]

I was going to make a post a few days ago after taking in all of the news of the day, but the thread was locked and my original draft got deleted, so I'll keep my thoughts brief:

• Sorry for your guys' loss. Geno would've been a great addition to the game, and it sucks that he's most likely not getting in as a fighter this time around. That said, his Mii Costume isn't a bad consolation prize at all, especially given how well it fits the Mii Gunner frame. Here's hoping they decide to give the costume an update this time around.
• Sephiroth might not be Geno, but he looks sick as ****! I never thought he'd actually make it in due to his sword being MauLer levels of long, but it seems they're going the route of "big stong attacks with slow startup and endlag" which should go a long way (no pun intended) towards keeping him balanced.
• I'm actually really glad it was Sephiroth they decided to go with for this new character and not **** like Jonesy or a new Pokemon character. Two fighters into this pass and we really needed someone to get people excited for this pass, and Sephiroth was just the ticket. Not saying that Steve wasn't exciting, mind, but you really can't beat the star power of someone like Sephiroth.
• Also, it was rather satisfying to see everyone's expectations get so utterly subverted with his reveal. Everyone (myself included) had written him off for one reason or another, and everyone thought we were getting someone like Doom Slayer, Dante or Sora because "IT'S THE GAME AWARDS! THEY HAVE TO REVEAL A CHARACTER THE WEST REALLY WANTS!". Sephiroth floating his one-winged ass into frame basically told all these people "No, you really don't have any idea who's coming next. Stop acting as though these guys are the end all be all of Smash speculation.". Good stuff.
• My Mii Costume predictions are as follows: The Geno Costume and Chocobo Hat return, with the Geno Costume being upgraded to a full body outfit. A Mii Costume based on Tifa or Barret seem like safe guesses, though I'm not 100% on that. A Crono or 2B Swordfighter outfit also seem decently likely. A Gex Mii Brawler outfit would be the dream. And finally Cacomallow and/or the Mii Costume Guy's predicitons coming true seem possible as well.
• While I may have sounded like I'm totally leaving this thread, I'm most likely going to stick around at least for a little while longer, especially if Geno's Mii Costume somehow doesn't show up on Thursday.

 

[Firox]

It’s like almost every JRPG protagonist ever has a sword has its main weapon. I get swords are like one of the most common weapons in Fantasy but a bit overused. There could be more diversity in my opinion. Not that I’m trying to complaining... but... it’s crazy.

Note to self: If I ever try to write a story or make a video game of a fantasy protagonist, give them any weapon BESIDES a sword. The audience will never see it coming...

 

[MarioRaccoon]

One thing to consider; Sephiroth presentation (and potentially release date) is the same day the first Final Fantasy was release on Famicom, december 18th in japan. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Regarding Miis, here are 3 groups of possibilities that I think it makes sense for his mii costume wave:

Possibility #1
Final Fantasy VII character (Tifa? Barret?)
Chocobo hat
Chrono (Swordfighter)
Geno (Gunner)

Possibility #2
Final Fantasy VII character (Tifa? Barret?)
Chocobo hat
Aluccard (Swordfighter)
Chrono (Swordfighter)

Possibility #3
Final Fantasy VII character (Tifa? Barret?)
Chocobo hat
Aluccard (Swordfighter)
Geno (Gunner)

In those 2 out of 3 cases, I think that Geno will get a new mii costume, covering his full body and with one Super Mario RPG songs.

 

[Trevenant]

Yeah the costume has pretty sizeable implications either way. No matter what way you look at it, objectively speaking the Geno costume is very likely to show up Thursday. But if it somehow dodges the best opportunity it has had to return by far then he has to be playable but since we have Cloud to look at and are pretty close to knowing that Chocobo is coming back then the chances are still slim. And should it get confirmed, yeah he isnt happening. It's not the ideal situation but Thursday can't come soon enough

 

[TheBeastHimself]

It’s like almost every JRPG protagonist ever has a sword has its main weapon. I get swords are like one of the most common weapons in Fantasy but a bit overused. There could be more diversity in my opinion. Not that I’m trying to complain... but... it’s crazy.

Don't forget about Ness and Lucas! You see, one of the beauties of Mother is the characters use baseball bats, frying pans, yo-yos, sticks, and bazookas, in addition to their magic.

 

[Firox]

In retrospect, it now makes a ton of sense why chocobo hat didn't get released with Hero....

Funny that people considered the possibility of 2B, Neku, etc. but never really considered that we could get another FFVII character. Oh well. C'est la vie. Sakurai seriously enjoys killing fan rules.

 

[Cahalan]

There is a 1 in 14,000,605 chance of Thursday not only being Sephiroth's Showcase, but also the reveal of Geno only if the following happen.

1. Geno and Mallow are not Mii Costumes in Sephiroth's Mii Costume Wave.
2. Sakurai addresses the elephant in the room when the Geno Mii Costume is weirdly absent in said wave.
3. Sakurai has planned on revealing Geno soon after Sephiroth is released.

Call me crazy, but this is the first time in a while that a Smash DLC trailer has specifically plugged the release window at the end of the trailer.
I don't even remember a release window being showing off when "Arms Fighter" was first announced in a Direct.

Fatmanonice can probably fact check me on this, but the last time that this has specifically happened was when we got Hero & Banjo at E3 2019 iirc.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Nintendo has historically shown virtually ZERO regard for specific anniversaries dates.

True, but I still wouldn't count them out as potential reveal dates since Little Mac was revealed on Punch Out's anniversary.

 

[Deleted member]

There is a 1 in 14,000,605 chance of Thursday not only being Sephiroth's Showcase, but also the reveal of Geno only if the following happen.

1. Geno and Mallow are not Mii Costumes in Sephiroth's Mii Costume Wave.
2. Sakurai addresses the elephant in the room when the Geno Mii Costume is weirdly absent in said wave.
3. Sakurai has planned on revealing Geno soon after Sephiroth is released.

Call me crazy, but this is the first time in a while that a Smash DLC trailer has specifically plugged the release window at the end of the trailer.
I don't even remember a release window being showing off when "Arms Fighter" was first announced in a Direct.

Fatmanonice can probably fact check me on this, but the last time that this has specifically happened was when we got Hero & Banjo at E3 2019 iirc.

I think they already said there is not gonna be another reveal in the presentation. I think there is always a chance of the Geno costume missing again, but there are implications on what could happen including breaking precedence. As I mentioned, we need another Hero miracle that either Square is double dipping or there will be a few more fighter after Vol. 2.

 

[JarBear]

No Geno reveal Thursday for that presentation or other DLC related stuff. The description specifies that. The only hope is a Hero Miracle for Geno with it not being shown.

 

[QQS]

Guys, Geno is coming playable, we can’t have a 4th Mii Gunner Deluxe also. In spite of that, I think the costume won’t come with Sephiroth due to Geno playable saved for later

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The more I think about it the better I feel about Geno. I've already established a lot of my reasoning but more things I've considered:

For Geno to be genuinely in trouble for this pack, multiple of the following would need to happen:

-Sephiroth's costume count is 5 or a full 6.

-Final Fantasy VII only gets one or no Mii costumes. (This has only happened when the playable character's franchise doesn't get Mii costumes at all.)

-Final Fantasy's only Mii costume is the Chocobo hat (in other words, no full Mii costumes at all. This has yet to happen in Ultimate's DLC).

-Sephiroth is the first swordfighter that has less than two swordfighter Miis.

-Sephiroth is only the second pack with no Brawlers.

-Sephiroth is the first pack in 11 months to get multiple Smash 4 DLC costumes.

-Sephiroth is only the third pack with both a new and old gunner.

-Sephiroth is the first pack where the old and new gunner are from the same company.

I highly disagree, simply because Geno’s chances don’t rely on the make-up of these Mii Fighters. Now, I believe all Smash 4 costumes will return as a baseline, with the only exception of course being an upgrade. What these statistics don’t address is that Geno’s costume most likely takes priority because of this. Geno‘s costume wouldn’t miss out based on the team nicely balancing the types (which already presupposes that the team carefully balances these statistics rather than them being the way things went organically given the choices made and character of the pack) because of the principle that had upueld Geno for so long imo: That his missing Mii costume is a sign at playability)

I’m pretty foggy right now so it might not really make sense but this isn’t a “picking teams at gym“ kind of thing, where Geno’s missing out on costumes because Barret got picked over him and the team going “well we couldnt fit the geno costume in but as a consolation prize he’s playable”

 

[Fatmanonice]

There is a 1 in 14,000,605 chance of Thursday not only being Sephiroth's Showcase, but also the reveal of Geno only if the following happen.

1. Geno and Mallow are not Mii Costumes in Sephiroth's Mii Costume Wave.
2. Sakurai addresses the elephant in the room when the Geno Mii Costume is weirdly absent in said wave.
3. Sakurai has planned on revealing Geno soon after Sephiroth is released.

Call me crazy, but this is the first time in a while that a Smash DLC trailer has specifically plugged the release window at the end of the trailer.
I don't even remember a release window being showing off when "Arms Fighter" was first announced in a Direct.

Fatmanonice can probably fact check me on this, but the last time that this has specifically happened was when we got Hero & Banjo at E3 2019 iirc.

The presentation is significantly later in the day than all but Banjo's but I don't think there will be a character reveal in it. I feel there's a reason why it's later in the day but I don't think that's the reason. Like I talked about the other day, every presentation has come with a surprise of some kind and there's "something" in this presentation that they want a big Western audience for. I just don't know what.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So here's my final Mii costume predictions for Thursday:

Tifa
Barret
Aerith
Chocobo
Lloyd
2B

It would make sense for the Lloyd costume to come back in a RPG character's pack and 2B was rumored from one of Fatman's guys so I think it's time.

 

[QQS]

Hey Fatmanonice i have a question bro, probably you have said it and I missed it. All of you know I think Geno is still playable saved for later but I wanna hear your opinion.

If the costume doesn’t show up with Sephiroth, do you think Geno chances are almost confirmed to be playable saved for later as 79-80-81 or Bonus?

 

[Paraspikey]

I think Geno will either be soft-confirmed or hard-deconfirmed this Thursday.
Hoping for the best!