Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Young Link.]

The only thing we can really look at for certain is the fact that the Mallow and Smith costumes didn't show up with the rest, which is pretty suspicious.

Didn't show up with what?

 

[DarkShadow20]

Would people really see Geno getting in as a square character a square rep though

Think about it. When the splash screen comes up, what will it say. It will say smash X Super mario RPG.

People will assume it’s a mario rep

It’s perfect for Nintendo and square but also quite greedy. I wouldn’t put it past them and I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo went to square for Geno but square said they wanted another character instead and then they both came to an agreement which was sephiroph as the SQUARE rep and Geno as the NINTENDO rep.

This. And we know if Disney had let Sora in, it would have been touted as a Disney rep.A Disney character in Smash? That’s huge.

 

[Griselda]

All of this "Maybe Geno is still in because.." probably looks like desperate justification or reaching to any onlookers. ..But, like, what do you expect? For everyone to just lie down and die? Speculation in itself has never really affected anything one way or another, but sometimes connecting the details does land you an idea that turns out to be very close to the truth, and that by itself is empowering for people. The idea that we can figure things out if we look deep enough.

 

[Deleted member]

All of this "Maybe Geno is still in because.." probably looks like desperate justification or reaching to any onlookers. ..But, like, what do you expect? For everyone to just lie down and die? Speculation in itself has never really affected anything one way or another, but sometimes connecting the details does land you an idea that turns out to be very close to the truth, and that by itself is empowering for people. The idea that we can figure things out if we look deep enough.

Worrying about what this community looks like to onlookers is a waste of time. I think BananaSlammer already said it - they'll find a reason to treat us like a punching bag. At least we finally have a firm cutoff point at which we can let all of our theorycrafting and speculating die.

Me waiting for the 17th like

 

[Fatmanonice]

Paraspikey You were asking on Star Road what the theme of this Pass is and it's honestly "**** the Rules©."

Min Min: "Spirits don't deconfirm and here's the longest reach in the game by a considerable amount; **** you."

Steve: "Here's a character that we had to reprogram all the stages in the game to make work; **** you."

Sephiroth: "One original character per third party franchise? **** you."

I'm slowly descending into madness and starting to wonder if Geno's Mii costume reappearing is only an obstacle because we say it is and Sakurai will do whatever he wants with this game.

 

[ForsakenM]

Hi pot, this is kettle, have you two met?

First off, there's that high and mighty attitude again that you keep pissing people off with. You might do well to do something with that.

Second, I never turned on anyone here. I call out pessimism, and then suddenly I got attacked for being positive about Geno and got told that I didn't deserve him, by someone who supposedly supported the same character. Even then I don't believe I ever attacked him, merely pointed out how ridiculous he was being, though I will admit I was legitimately angry for the first time on here in a while.

Try again.

 

[AugustusB]

One thing I am thinking about is the whole "Everyone is Here" and how that almost did not happen. I remember a lot of people heard that Cloud was the problem because "Square need money!" and having Cloud in base game was probably a big issue.

With Sephiroth's inclusion, it honestly makes a lot of sense for Square to negotiate a BIG DEAL with Nintendo/Sakurai.

"You want Cloud in Smash and want more content with him for free!? How about a deal? Cloud can be there with the bare minimum and LATER, Sephiroth can bring the content."
'OK but what about Geno? We would still like to make that happen'

"Hmmmm....Throw in Dragon Quest content and you got a deal"

More than likely not happening, but gets you to think.

 

[HudU]

The Seven Squares video papagenos did back in 2018 is 100% real looking back on it. Maybe it could mean something towards Geno. PolarPanda mentioned that Nintendo employees talked about Geno back then, how likely do you think a fighters pass 3 is? https://youtu.be/_vGxPo8GIqU

 

[Aerospherology]

Paraspikey You were asking on Star Road what the theme of this Pass is and it's honestly "**** the Rules©."

Min Min: "Spirits don't deconfirm and here's the longest reach in the game by a considerable amount; **** you."

Steve: "Here's a character that we had to reprogram all the stages in the game to make work; **** you."

Sephiroth: "One original character per third party franchise? **** you."

I'm slowly descending into madness and starting to wonder if Geno's Mii costume reappearing is only an obstacle because we say it is and Sakurai will do whatever he wants with this game.

Can't wait until Porky Minch or Mike Jones in in FP2.
Because OF COURSE they're possible now.

 

[Theguy123]

Is this popping up for everyone else. It doesn’t have the “new” on sephiroph. Could this mean anything since every time we’ve had a reveal the website always has the “new” on the character.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Never realized how obsessed Gamefaqs is. Lot of you guys got a shout out

View attachment 295154

LOOK SMASHBOARDS, THERE I AM!

 

[Griselda]

Worrying about what this community looks like to onlookers is a waste of time. I think BananaSlammer already said it - they'll find a reason to treat us like a punching bag. At least we finally have a firm cutoff point at which we can let all of our theorycrafting and speculating die.

Me waiting for the 17th like
View attachment 295159

Ah, I wasn't really trying to make us look better to the people that already don't like us. I was kinda just making a statement. Maybe a little bit for myself, if we're serious. Doesn't make it less accurate, though.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

LOOK GARY THERE I AM LOOK

**** i didnt see u beat me 2 it lmfao.

Well I'm even more offscreen so I'm more in spirit to the original >: (

 

[Griselda]

Something I want to go over again and get clear on - PapaGeno's received some sort of call about that mod being taken down that gave a report that was something like 'It was taken down because of Geno or Waluigi', and may have been told something else but isn't able to share any further details. Is all of that correct, or did I get something wrong there?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hm. ...Y'think it's settling or something for me to hope we're getting Geno as a Piranha Plant-styled standalone now? Obviously, I'd still prefer he come as a full pack with a stage, but - I mean, if someone's gonna cut your legs off in a week, wouldn't you hope they let you keep one?

Obviously Geno as a Corrin type deal would be preferable to a Mii costume. You get a character, some music, and maybe some Mii costumes. They changed it so that all the Mario music can be played on all the Mario stages anyways so it's not even cutting off a leg, it's like cutting off your pinky toe.

 

[MattX20]

Something I want to go over again and get clear on - PapaGeno's received some sort of call about that mod being taken down that gave a report that was something like 'It was taken down because of Geno or Waluigi', and may have been told something else but isn't able to share any further details. Is all of that correct, or did I get something wrong there?

No, that's about right from what I remember

 

[Deleted member]

That's what Im thinking honestly. To me this feels like SE getting some marketing freedom in exchange for Geno. Why promote a game (Remake) in a game that is on a console that isn't even going to get said (Remake) game? Sure the port of the original PS1 game is on the eshop but SE doesn't care about that

It really makes me think... Sephiroth is a huge video game villain, but for what reason would Nintendo to add another FF character 7 specifically, when Cloud is already in the game? Maybe Nintendo would want to add more FF content? I highly doubt FF7R is coming to the Switch anytime soon so Nintendo doesn’t have any reason to promote the game. I don’t think they’re focused on FF7 on the Switch right now...

 

[valkiriforce]

Paraspikey You were asking on Star Road what the theme of this Pass is and it's honestly "**** the Rules©."

Min Min: "Spirits don't deconfirm and here's the longest reach in the game by a considerable amount; **** you."

Steve: "Here's a character that we had to reprogram all the stages in the game to make work; **** you."

Sephiroth: "One original character per third party franchise? **** you."

I'm slowly descending into madness and starting to wonder if Geno's Mii costume reappearing is only an obstacle because we say it is and Sakurai will do whatever he wants with this game.

I'm pretty much in this same boat right now - I think Thursday is the real kicker here and a part of me took some odd encouragement from how "out there" Sephiroth was given how unlikely it seemed we would get another FF character in Ultimate. It feels like fan rules are constantly put on trial and while I think that Geno's mii costume showing up would likely be our death sentence I don't think it's technically impossible for him not to be included later as a real fighter - it's just super unlikely. Despite this though I do have hope that maybe they're only giving us one old costume back with all new ones (Chocobo hat) so that definitely has me curious as to how this next presentation will play out.

 

[Griselda]

Obviously Geno as a Corrin type deal would be preferable to a Mii costume. You get a character, some music, and maybe some Mii costumes. They changed it so that all the Mario music can be played on all the Mario stages anyways so it's not even cutting off a leg, it's like cutting off your pinky toe.

I'd actually forgotten that was Corrin's situation, honestly. Yeah, that outcome wouldn't be quite as bad as it could be, but still.. I was hoping for Bowser's Keep as Geno's stage. The dream of having a proper Bowser stage just keeps slipping further away. Ah, well.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think this is an underrated part of smash discussion, that the next game will probably just be a port. And if they get all characters; they could totally start a brand new cycle of DLC support. Just a thought that maybe we can still push Geno for smash ultimate even if he gets costume'd. Just for Smash Ultimate: Ultimate Edition

 

[Young Link.]

then they both came to an agreement which was sephiroph as the SQUARE rep and Geno as the NINTENDO rep.

Dude it's not only Square Enix that has zero interest in Geno, it's also our "loved" NINTENDO.

People need to understand that Square Enix isn't the only "villain" of this story.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Is this popping up for everyone else. It doesn’t have the “new” on sephiroph. Could this mean anything since every time we’ve had a reveal the website always has the “new” on the character.

Probably isnt nlaoding dor you. i got a new on him

 

[Griselda]

I think this is an underrated part of smash discussion, that the next game will probably just be a port. And if they get all characters; they could totally start a brand new cycle of DLC support. Just a thought that maybe we can still push Geno for smash ultimate even if he gets costume'd. Just for Smash Ultimate: Ultimate Edition

Definitely don't stop pushing Geno even if he doesn't even return as a costume. They heard us once, maybe they just need to hear it again.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Back from a 3 year hibernation to simply share my view on how the Geno community is perceived and how it is going nowadays, etc.
It's true that today Sephiroth got in, and it's highly likely (if not inevitable) that on the 17th Geno is going to be added as a Mii Costume. It's also possible that after that Geno will not be in this pass, but does that mean that you have to stop speculating? What does it cost simply stating that Geno could break the Mii Costume rule or whatever was added since 2017?

It's your thread, which was made for the sole purpose of discussing Geno getting in Smash. That's why you all come here. You probably built up good relationships with other fans here and even if you character didn't get in, you probably had a good time by simply speculating because... Well, it's fun to simply argue on what may or may not happen. Finding coincidences or proof that leads to nowhere, but it's just for fun and no one can blame you for having fun.
People are mocking those who make collages to collect evidences or long wall texts concerning Geno, but... That's why this thread exist. It's the same in every single character thread, it just so happens that the Geno thread has the most posts, and of course people like focusing on what's trending.

People are mocking your fanbase for being delusional? Then let them be. If what they find fun is mocking people having a good time speculating, or insulting, or whatever, then cool. But, at the end of the day, they are losing as much time mocking people speculating than those same people speculating, with the exception that they are looking like poopholes for everyone else.

Just keep speculating, it's harmless, you enjoy it, even if Geno is a costume on the 17th. Or stop speculating because you think he won't get any. Choose, discuss. Who has any right to tell you what you cannot talk about on this thread (as long as it remains related to the subject of course, but you probably got me)? As long as there's a spot open on the pass, it's not over. Even if I really don't care about Geno, and find theories absurd, that has nothing on the fanbase. You can argue that X or Y theory is stupid, but calling someone an idiot for talking about Geno in a Geno thread is pretty funny, especially when the guys are on GameFaqs spying every single post made here.

If I had to give a single tip, it would be to not share your private issues because assholes exist and they will use it against you. That's pretty sad but this is how it is.

Back to a three year sleep.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

Guys, did you notice that the VGA trailer only said "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY" and not "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY VII" like the stand-alone trailers? ESRB theory in full force.

 

[xNovaNebulax]

Is this popping up for everyone else. It doesn’t have the “new” on sephiroph. Could this mean anything since every time we’ve had a reveal the website always has the “new” on the character.

this is what im getting on pc

 

[Springwood Slasher]

Man, I wish Sakurai could see how strong and resilient our Geno community is. Even in such dire odds, we are (mostly) trying to prop each other up and think positively.

is that not magical to anyone else? That’s pretty freakin magical to me. Even in the face of such low odds, most of us are willing to go down with the ship. I. FREAKIN. LOVE. THAT. FOR. OUR. COMMUNITY.

we are ICONIC badasses.

 

[Fatmanonice]

All logical arguments and theorycraft aside, the humanitarian in me genuinely wonders if Sakurai has it in him to stone-cold kill a top 5 character literally days before Christmas.

 

[pinshadow]

I don't see that message anywhere on Steve's video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF1W3eI-p5o

It's on the original unlisted livestream.

 

[Luis27]

z

Guys, did you notice that the VGA trailer only said "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY" and not "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY VII" like the stand-alone trailers? ESRB theory in full force.

ESRB theory?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Guys, did you notice that the VGA trailer only said "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY" and not "SMASH X FINAL FANTASY VII" like the stand-alone trailers? ESRB theory in full force.

Nope,the offical video on YT has the whole FFVII Title

 

[MattX20]

View attachment 295172

All logical arguments and theorycraft aside, the humanitarian in me genuinely wonders if Sakurai has it in him to stone-cold kill a top 5 character literally days before Christmas.

I don't think Sakurai would be that heartless. Square Enix and some Nintendo higher ups maybe but not him specifically. None of Sakurai's actions ever came off as deliberately malicious, more like friendly trolling at most

 

[StarLight42]

The idea of Pass 2 being “rule breakers” is kind of ridiculous, honestly. Seems like you guys are just trying to get ridiculed with that one.

1. yes, Min Min was a rule breaker, I still feel like spirits deconfirm was a really weak rule, but it was one commonly touted by the Smash fandom, so sure, that was a rule breaker

2. ...no. Steve did not break any rules. He was a common request and speculated character for Pass 1. People here just ignored him for Pass 2 because MASTERCHIEF MASTERCHIEF apparently, even though he was always a likely candidate. Don’t blame your incorrect assumptions on a character being a “rule breaker”

3. ...no. Richter exists, guys. Sephiroth is not the first secondary third party character to join Smash. If anything all he does is reinforce that it can still happen with DLC.

so, no. I am not willing to entertain this “Sakurai might be pulling a fast one on us if Geno is Mii’d next week!!” It’s quite obvious Mii costumes are intended to be supplements, and this pass also isn’t some super rulebreaker pass, or else we would’ve gotten an AT and more already.

 

[Megadoomer]

z


ESRB theory?

I assume it has to do with the ESRB not allowing certain series/games to be directly advertised in advertising material for Smash, an E10+ game, since Persona 5's logo (along with every other series logo in the Fighters Pass) was removed between Terry's announcement and Byleth's announcement, and we've gotten things like Smash Bros x Altair, Smash Bros x Vault Boy, or Smash Bros x Travis instead of their respective series.

Unlike those games, Final Fantasy 7 isn't rated M, but maybe even a T rating is enough? I'm not sure.

 

[pinshadow]

View attachment 295172

All logical arguments and theorycraft aside, the humanitarian in me genuinely wonders if Sakurai has it in him to stone-cold kill a top 5 character literally days before Christmas.

I mean, we'll see. Something I've thought about but never brought up was the fact that the only returning costumes in Pack 1 were characters that were longshots to begin with. Tails, Knuckles, Akira, Jacky, and all the various Mega Men. Aside from Gil, Heihachi, Lloyd, Monster Hunter, Geno, and APPARENTLY Chocobo as a standin for a FF rep are all characters that are plausible and atleast decently demanded. Who's to say they weren't held back just because they were being CONSIDERED as characters? I mean, we know flat out from Seven Squares Geno was on the table. They might have just decided, ok, we are doing another Square character and might do Geno, let's just not bring back the costume yet just in case.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 295172

All logical arguments and theorycraft aside, the humanitarian in me genuinely wonders if Sakurai has it in him to stone-cold kill a top 5 character literally days before Christmas.

Prepare for the possibility. Hope for the best. That way you cover both bases.






That said, folks. I think I need to say one thing.

Feeling pain is not an excuse to make others feel pain. It just causes more pain. If you are in pain, ask for help. It really is the best thing you can do.

And let me add, if you excuse someone's actions because they are in pain, that's not a wise move. Its enabling them in a way. Say that such actions are unacceptable and then offer your help.

If you really care about someone, you won't let them make a fool of themselves.

Letting them do bad things out of some misguided sense of loyalty is wrong. Friends correct and redirect friends. Just do it with tact.

 

[Forthestarcapelad]

So here's my hot take on all of that. What Sakurai has flat out told us is that Nintendo will cold call him or just show up and ask if he can include a specific character. He also told us Nintendo ultimately determines reveal and release for these fighters. Plus, for FP1, he did say that Nintendo chose the DLC but he had the final say if he could make a character work or not.

Throwing my own brain juices into that gumbo, I think what we can infer is that Nintendo has its list of who they want to see and/or promote, but Sakurai also has his own say and can reject Nintendo if he feels that the character is "difficult" or doesn't feel "right." Nintendo can then veto that rejection because, um, money and Sakurai has to figure it out. This was most evidence with Steve, where it was clear he enjoyed Minecraft and had given the character thought for a long time but didn't feel he could make it work until Nintendo probably forced him to. You can also kind of tell where Sakurai was at with each character by how he presents them to the audience. NONE of this is objective, all subjective, but felt like listing it out:

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy - Fan demand that Nintendo and Sakurai bent for. Not much else here.

Ryu - Sakurai himself stated how much enjoyed SF2 and wanted to see how Ryu could work in Smash. This was probably a case of "Can I get this happening, Nintendo?" "Let's check the books... hmm... Ok, sure. We're launching his games on the Switch anyway"

Corrin & Bayo - 100% shills, I don't care what you think. They came from the Smash Ballot (allegedly) but conveniently also pumped recent games at the time. I believe they probably did make a splash on the ballot, but it was something where Nintendo saw an opportunity and Sakurai saw something to hide behind when he made them into playable fighters ("But you VOTED for them, remember?")

Cloud - 100% Sakurai. FF was one of the top requested ballot choices and Sakurai said in an interview he was given access to pretty much whatever protag he wanted, but he said "it had to be Cloud." This was a matter of Sakurai knowing the pulse of the gaming community pretty well. Yeah, some of us wanted Terra or Black Mage or whatever, but it really did have to be Cloud. There was no other option. As far as Nintendo's say, they probably just saw dollar signs and gave the thumbs up.

Joker - Sakurai enjoyed Persona 5 immensely (per interviews/social media). P5 was THE game leading up until the reveal. Joker did not get a Sakurai Presents video, but it's likely he was a fan. Seems to be a joint effort to get Joker in the game coming from both Sakurai and Nintendo. The lack of SMT content is super glaring and may point to Nintendo not thinking it was valuable to include at the time.

Hero - I think this is a similar position to Cloud, with some Corrin tossed in for good measure. DQ had to be highly requested and it made sense to include; Sakurai knew the gaming community was expecting it. Nintendo also saw an opportunity to work with a 3rd party developer and shill a game at the same time. Totally speculation here, but maybe everyone heard Erdrick because it was Erdrick until Nintendo added a stipulation that 11 had to be the main costume.

Banjo - This feels like NOA pushed for this character. Banjo is wildly popular in the West, while Rare games sort of... existed?... in Japan. I can see Nintendo of Japan basically saying "you're allowed ONE character, NOA" and Treehouse went "GUH-HUH" and that was it. Sakurai did NOT seem enthused about this character one bit during the Presents video, and I know I'm not the only one who caught that vibe. He knew the demand was there and spoke of the character in the past, somewhat highly too, but I would be shocked if Sakurai had Banjo on "the shortlist" of characters he absolutely wanted to put into the game. For what it's worth tho, Banjo feels like a throwback character in so many ways, so it's evidence Sakurai had thought about how they'd play for a while prior to Ultimate.

Terry - This one's clearly Sakurai bias, and that's fine. Nintendo probably threw him a bone and said "you get one, Mr. Sakurai." SNK had also been very supportive of the Switch since Day 1, so it only made sense. Sakurai extensively talked about this character and why, even throwing in that "just because you don't recognize someone doesn't mean they aren't a cool idea" line

Byleth - Corrin 2.0

Min Min - This feels like another Nintendo decision. They probably realized that ARMS sold decently enough but hadn't become another Splatoon like they wanted. Sakurai mentioned timing was off for including playable ARMS characters in Smash. Add these two together and it kind of paints the picture that Nintendo had wanted ARMS in base game and didn't get it in time. Sakurai also explained why he chose this specific character as well, and it boiled down to "I didn't know who to pick so I was going to pick the most generic fighter but I got told so uh... here's the one everyone loves instead."

Steve - Very well explained, imo, already. Sakurai sat on this for a while and couldn't come up with an idea. He was a fan, but didn't think it could work easily. Nintendo kept pushing him on it and finally he caved. End of story.

Sephiroth - This is likely several things, but most similar to Cloud. Nintendo probably approached or were approached by Square and the conversation led to getting another character. I bet the 7 Squares leak was legit and this had been cooking for a while. They settled on Sephiroth because of Sakurai bias and the fact that they knew this character would have mass appeal due to his legacy, plus he'd make $$$. Love it or hate it, Sephiroth was dumb popular on Japanese polls and he absolutely appeals to that Western boomer demographic moreso than Geno. Sakurai maybe always had Sephiroth in the back of his mind too, considering how much of a hard-on he clearly has for FF7.

We'll likely find out more on this when the Sakurai presents drops. That's one of the various benefits to those videos, I think. It doesn't always guarantee anything, but as shown by your observations, it does grant us some insight to how things work for smash character creation and inclusion, letting us infer at least SOME things.

Plus it's obviously the best way to get the man's perspective, since, well, he's the one presenting.. As you indicated, with someone like Terry, you can stell there's a good level of enthusiasm in talking about the character and the content that came with him. I can't imagine he was keen on giving an entire overview on what Fire Emblem is when we've had several characters beforehand (a good chunk of which being part of the roster for over a decade by this point).
Maybe the latter is my own bias coloring my perception, but, if I remember right, Sakurai himself had said previously that he probably went too far with the Fire Emblem characters by the time Corrin showed up.

So yeah, I'd say your list is pretty accurate. Thankfully, Sakuraii is allowed to be at least a little bit open in this regard, so we'll see come next Thursday (my time at least).

 

[PestilenceSSB]

Sakurai Presents on Sephiroth at 5 PM Eastern... right after my second-to-last final. It's as if the Smash gods want me to know Geno's fate as it will play out.

No matter what happens on Thursday, one thing's for certain: the Geno/SMRPG community's dedication is out of this world. The fact that some of you have been sticking around since before I was even born is telling... no matter when you joined the Geno support train, you can pat yourself on the back. No matter how many time fate fancied kicking your butt, you didn't flinch.

Here's something your community's dedication and passion accomplished: it sold me on Geno and SMRPG.

My opinion on Geno used to be something along the lines of "I don't actively want him, but I want his fans to be happy." But ever since I started lurking on this thread from time to time last June, I genuinely want him in this game and I genuinely want SMRPG to come back into the limelight. So much so that he's now my third most wanted character not yet in Smash, behind Rayman and Dixie Kong.

See y'all on the flipside...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

There's three fighters left to unveiled, correct?

If I were you guys, I wouldn't give up until it's all over. Unless there's been any official statements that i missed.

Is it unlikely to happen? Probably, but you never know. Smash Bros. always manages to surprise it's audience with something new.

 

[Skull Leader]

I just realized something. Maybe its been brought up before.

For the game being "everyone is here", it would be pretty terrible for Sakurai of all people as a Geno cheerleader to deny his inclusion as the only non-original fighter to receive a splash screen. So the baseline here should honestly be Mii costume and remove Gene Wilder "You lose, you get nothing" off the table.

Maybe Sephiroth WAS the compromise in all of this. Sakurai asks for Geno, SE says "okay" but only under the condition that they get to break the "per company" rule and include someone SE wants - Sephiroth. Maybe even with the distinction that SE is the only company who gets to break this rule.

The 17th honestly will be very telling.