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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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CopperKoopa

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If Nintendo was focused on a hype character 8 for the VGAs, wouldn't it made more sense to have Steve as number 8 then?
a recent theory is that fighter 7 and 8 were swapped around , so idk
Steve's response has been fairly polarizing. If they wanted to go for an absolute hype bringer, Crash would be one of the few characters I can realistically think of who would have nearly unanimous praise and people going OH MY GOD IT'S HAPPENING!
It has been a theory going back to Byleth that the 2nd Fighter Pass got shuffled around. There was a supposed leak about it on 2chan that spread around and then was quickly forgotten. You can go either way with it, as there's certainly evidence to support either side of the argument.

What we DO know is that all the FP1 characters were decided before the launch of base game (which explains Erdrick/Banjo rumors from back then) and all of their "Sakurai Presents" videos were filmed a few months before their release. This has held true for Steve and Min Min as well, actually. FP2 was decided during E3 2019, but it includes a character that had been in talks for nearly 5 years (Steve). It's very possible that the two DLC passes bled into one another and things were shuffled around to work with scheduling. Even prior to Covid, Byleth was delayed from Dec to January (though FP1 was always meant to be released by the end of that Jan 2019). We also know that Min Min was delayed (from April until June of 2020, apparently) and they knew this was happening at latest by March of this year. Steve was developed entirely during quarantine (so all within this year). He could have been moved forward in order to satisfy the "hype" hunger. Also, Hero was delayed for "playtesting" and Joker was revealed before he even had a working model. It's totally possible even those two were swapped, which again might explain all the DQ rumors from before launch. We also know that Sakurai's team ran into difficulties with negotiations for licensing due to Covid, so it's likely one or more characters had to be put on the back burner until they could get approval/feedback. Who knows!

What sucks is that Sakurai (and Nintendo in general) are so tightlipped (and kind of smug) about how everything works in-house development wise, so we'll likely never know. The only games they ever really divulge good dirt about are the Zelda games and Mario, but even those are often dumped on us in expositions with little or no explanation. How long did it take us to learn about the split timelines, which they apparently had developed the series around since Ocarina? God... I remember those internet forum wars. Different time, bros.

EDIT: Another thing I just recalled was that Nintendo decides when to reveal and release characters, not Sakurai. He has gone on record saying this, and it explains a couple oddities about the DLC. For one, Joker was revealed prior to having an in-game model and the wait to see what his gameplay was painful. Secondly, Terry was revealed in a September Direct (alongside FP2) with hardly any footage. Sakurai eventually showed off both characters, of course, but you could assume from both of these instances that Nintendo's "timeline" was being hard-followed and Sakurai was not quite on track to meet those goals. Someone could always come around and say maybe Nintendo always intended to make the wait for Joker suspenseful or have Terry's reveal seem like a "sneak peek," but you never know with these things. The lack of them having full gameplay trailers was odd considering every other fighter got one. Connecting this back to our current situation, it's entirely possible Nintendo has a timeline that Sakurai and his team are now ahead of schedule on. There's no way they're just kicking back and taking their time to develop the last 4 fighters + content; they absolutely have another character in the can, ready to go and waiting for Nintendo to reveal it. I mean, why else would the Sakurai Presents videos be filmed months in advance (or back to back, like with Banjo and Hero)? And why else would characters like Min Min or Byleth have odd 1 or 2 week delays following their presentations, when other characters had faster turnarounds? It must all be Nintendo's final word, not Sakurai's. Not only does somebody out there know the last 4 characters, but I would bet you actual money that playtesters have played near-complete versions of 1 if not 2 of them by now and the Sakurai Presents 100% was already filmed, waiting for Nintendo to drop it. Wtf is going on at that company I will never know (yes, I'm impatient and want the DLC yesterday, but c'mon... the wait for this Fighter's Pass has killed all hype for this game. You know it, I know it, they know it. So what are they waiting for???)
 
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Enigma735

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I'm part of the camp that really hopes we don't get a Smash announcement for TGA due to the logic that if we do, there is a far higher chance that fighter 8 will be a mainstream 3rd party character and not Geno. I just don't see Nintendo having the balls to announce a semi-obscure Mario spinoff character as their thunder-stealer in front of all the other companies. I'd LOVE it if they did, but it just doesn't seem like something Tendo would do.
Basically me. The only TGA-tier reveal that would get my hyped to see would be Crash. Any other character will have me disappointed and somewhat nervous about Geno's chances moving forward.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Basically me. The only TGA-tier reveal that would get my hyped to see would be Crash. Any other character will have me disappointed and somewhat nervous about Geno's chances moving forward.
Honestly, regardless if Crash or Geno is FP8 or not, I don't think the next fighter will effect Geno's chances of getting in regardless if who it is if it's not Geno.
 
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If Nintendo was focused on a hype character 8 for the VGAs, wouldn't it made more sense to have Steve as number 8 then?
By my mom's definition, The Game Awards is not for kids. The modern audience's mileage may vary.

I stand by the fact that Nintendo was probably very ready to show Steve off at E3, but was strongarmed by Microsoft to show Steve at or closer to a Microsoft event and Minecon fit the bill. If it had happened at E3, there would have been Microsoft product placement to sort of mitigate the damage of one of their properties carrying hype for Nintendo, but with everything virtual, they wouldn't have had that kind of marketing opportunity. Obviously, Nintendo wasn't going to let Microsoft do the showing at anything they might have had planned.

I strongly doubt the swap theory because it's a little too easy to punch holes in.

Long ago, in peaceful times, I suggested that Nintendo's shareholders were not going to be pleased by the idea of Smash Bros carrying news in 2020, and that Nintendo would likely do as much as they could to be sure not to use Smash as a sweeper for their events - this is because most likely, the majority of money is gone from the game... That isn't to say the DLC doesn't sell well, it's to say that if you're some dividends charting, arrow following, "I refuse to play red in checkers" stockholding ass, you're just not impressed by a two year old title stealing the thunder of recent stuff, and despite the awful circumstances, I think we've still seen that. Standalone reveals that don't rob from anything else, and one teaser that was so underwhelmingly put in the middle of everything else that it became infamous in a matter of hours. It's absolute glue eating insanity, but Nintendo has stuck to that plan, if it existed, even in the face of it being the easiest way to keep the audience engaged.

When I put it like that, VGAs with a projected nothing from Nintendo becomes the perfect place to drop a bomb like Smash - you steal from everyone's limelight but your own. I don't expect anything, of course.
 

Enigma735

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Honestly, regardless if Crash or Geno is FP8 or not, I don't think the next fighter will effect Geno's chances of getting in regardless if who it is if it's not Geno.
Oh yeah same here. I also expect Geno to show up at some point whether its CP8 or the last character. I just can't help but get more nervous as more and more fighters get added.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Oh yeah same here. I also expect Geno to show up at some point whether its CP8 or the last character. I just can't help but get more nervous as more and more fighters get added.
I understand, but with Ultimate literally living up to it's name, I think whoever the last fighter is will be a hype inducing pick almost everyone will appreciate. Each Smash usually ends on a sour note in terms of the final character. Not to say Ness, Game & Watch, Wolf, and Bayonetta sucked but they certainly weren't grand finale material.
 
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StarLight42

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Honestly, regardless if Crash or Geno is FP8 or not, I don't think the next fighter will effect Geno's chances of getting in regardless if who it is if it's not Geno.
i’m sorry, but this is wrong. The next fighter absolutely does affect Geno’s chances of getting in, whether we want to admit or not

Because facts are, a lot of that strong July/Summer evidence we are still clinging onto desperately, like tugging at the string of a balloon that really wants to fly away, goes absolutely belly-up if FP8 is not Geno.


I am sorry, but that’s absolutely how it is. There was no way that Nintendo was planning to already reveal Fighter 9 by July 2020.
 

StarLight42

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I understand, but with Ultimate literally living up to it's name, I think whoever the last fighter is will be a hype inducing pick almost everyone will appreciate. Each Smash usually ends on a sour note in terms of the final character. Not to say Ness, Game & Watch, Wolf, and Bayonetta sucked but they certainly weren't grand finale material.
this is literally contradiction: the post
 

Enigma735

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the most Likely for banjo equivalent is crash bandicoot for honest opinion
Eh I have to disagree, and this is coming from someone who hardcore supports Crash for Smash. Crash is requested, sure, but he is nowhere near on the same calibur as Ridley, King K. Rool or Banjo, nor has he been requested for as long either. I think Crash is certainly becoming a more popular choice as time goes on, but I don't think I can consider him a "Banjo Pick".
 
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RetrogamerMax

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I offended you for deeming your post contradictory, while you’re the one here calling me a ********, ****head, ****head, etc. for telling you why I think you are wrong.
Yes that offended me. And I don't talk lightly to someone who makes a joke about my grammar or intelligence in any bad light.
 
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Firox

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Guys, guys, let's agree to disagree and move on. There's no point in devolving a conversation into a mud slinging fest. How about we just wait until the TGA are over and then feel smug about whether we were right or not?
 

Heoj

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Personally i just hope we dont see a smash reveal at the VGA's, and nothing can change my mind. If we get a VGA reveal then it absolutely won't be geno imo, would i like to be wrong, good god yes, but i just dont see it happening. And the whole thing about palutena being revealed at e3 honestly doesnt mean squat. E3 lets nintendo breathe in their own space where they can announce whatever they so please, but with VGA nintendo would be announcing someone smack dab in the middle of all sorts of next-gen triple A big budget games. If they announce someone like geno, majority of the crowd aint gonna have a damn clue what they just saw. Joker works because persona was doing wonders when it came out and had a noticable presence at the award show.

As it is now, im just gonna wait for mid-January.
 
D

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Personally i just hope we dont see a smash reveal at the VGA's, and nothing can change my mind. If we get a VGA reveal then it absolutely won't be geno imo, would i like to be wrong, good god yes, but i just dont see it happening. And the whole thing about palutena being revealed at e3 honestly doesnt mean squat. E3 lets nintendo breathe in their own space where they can announce whatever they so please, but with VGA nintendo would be announcing someone smack dab in the middle of all sorts of next-gen triple A big budget games. If they announce someone like geno, majority of the crowd aint gonna have a damn clue what they just saw. Joker works because persona was doing wonders when it came out and had a noticable presence at the award show.

As it is now, im just gonna wait for mid-January.
To be fair, Nintendo announces their piddly **** right in the middle of next-gen, triple-A big budget games all the time. It's basically a way of life for them.
 

Firox

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Personally i just hope we dont see a smash reveal at the VGA's, and nothing can change my mind. If we get a VGA reveal then it absolutely won't be geno imo, would i like to be wrong, good god yes, but i just dont see it happening. And the whole thing about palutena being revealed at e3 honestly doesnt mean squat. E3 lets nintendo breathe in their own space where they can announce whatever they so please, but with VGA nintendo would be announcing someone smack dab in the middle of all sorts of next-gen triple A big budget games. If they announce someone like geno, majority of the crowd aint gonna have a damn clue what they just saw. Joker works because persona was doing wonders when it came out and had a noticable presence at the award show.

As it is now, im just gonna wait for mid-January.
100% Agree. The chances of TGA revealing Geno are astronomically low. If anything, I think Crash would be the most likely due to his sheer recognizability, but I also think that if Geno doesn't get revealed by fighter 9, we have a 90% chance of getting boned completely. My feelings:

-8 isn't Geno? Crap, not good, but we still have a decent chance
-9 isn't Geno? Mega crap, it's 10 or never.
-10 isn't Geno? Gaze into the apocalypse with perhaps a few molecules of hope
-11 isn't Geno? GG. Time to cut our losses.

Depending on the quality of fighters 8-11, I MIGHT hold out hope that in some distant future Nintendo gives a **** about Geno, but if we get the likes of Jonesy or one of the space people from Among Us, I'm throwing in the towel for good.
 

Fatmanonice

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Because misery loves (our) company, this dropped today:


The special Mario Splatoon 2 Tournament finally has a date (unlike... Oh, nevermind, that's too mean...); January 16th and 17th. Why is this significant? Because a Splatoon 2 update is what kicked off Nintendo's 2020 on January 6th. January 9th we got Pokemon and the 16th we got Byleth. Based on this, it's pretty reasonable that if we get bonezoned for December, the news freeze will probably continue until at least January 18th. Supposedly New Horizons is getting its January/February update around this time too so that's yet another indicator if nothing happens by December 18th, we'll have to huddle around the speculation fire for a solid month...God help us all...
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Honestly its only Nintendo's pattern of occasional odd choices in revelations that's getting me to even entertain the possibility of a VGA announcement of any type. Moving away from General Directs and allowing a long period of drought but also doing in a significant Video Game Awards reveal in the same year feels oddly appropriate for them. I don't expect it, however I can't safely rule it out either.
 

Fatmanonice

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The more I think about it, the more I agree with CopperKoopa CopperKoopa : Nintendo hyped up both PAX Conventions, Gamescom, and the Tokyo Game Show, sometimes even weeks out. Them being this quiet with roughly 24 hours remaining is kind of telling. Nintendo loves surprises but they love reactions to surprises even more. Think about Steve... 24 hour notice and they put out tweets before the release that were like "hey man, did you eat your oatmeal yet? Coffee cup in hand? Okay then... We're about to ROCK YER ****IN' WORLD" and none of that energy has been present for the VGAs unless they're waiting until the absolute last minute which is stupid from an advertising standpoint. On top of this, I will be genuinely surprised if Nintendo wins a single category because this year was, um, lacking for obvious reasons...
 

MattX20

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Because misery loves (our) company, this dropped today:


The special Mario Splatoon 2 Tournament finally has a date (unlike... Oh, nevermind, that's too mean...); January 16th and 17th. Why is this significant? Because a Splatoon 2 update is what kicked off Nintendo's 2020 on January 6th. January 9th we got Pokemon and the 16th we got Byleth. Based on this, it's pretty reasonable that if we get bonezoned for December, the news freeze will probably continue until at least January 18th. Supposedly New Horizons is getting its January/February update around this time too so that's yet another indicator if nothing happens by December 18th, we'll have to huddle around the speculation fire for a solid month...God help us all...
We just had a Splatoon 2 tournament this month, and so far, the more reliable indicator of Smash reveals are the Smash challenge cups and not Splatoon.
 
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Or maybe they’ll announce Mega Rayquaza for Pokémon Go, or something.
I guess? I'm locking the doors and setting the ship's computer to navigate disappointing waters instead of empty ones, either way.
 

JarBear

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The more I think about it, the more I agree with CopperKoopa CopperKoopa : Nintendo hyped up both PAX Conventions, Gamescom, and the Tokyo Game Show, sometimes even weeks out. Them being this quiet with roughly 24 hours remaining is kind of telling. Nintendo loves surprises but they love reactions to surprises even more. Think about Steve... 24 hour notice and they put out tweets before the release that were like "hey man, did you eat your oatmeal yet? Coffee cup in hand? Okay then... We're about to ROCK YER ****IN' WORLD" and none of that energy has been present for the VGAs unless they're waiting until the absolute last minute which is stupid from an advertising standpoint. On top of this, I will be genuinely surprised if Nintendo wins a single category because this year was, um, lacking for obvious reasons...
<1-3 hours before TGA>

Nintendo Twitter: Hey all, tonight is TGA! Make sure to tune in for a great night!
 

CopperKoopa

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...Pokémon Go is also trying to get its players to tune in to the VGAs..? This is sure odd:
Was Sword and Shield nominated for anything? Only thing I can think of. They wouldn't DARE drop Pokemon news at the VGAs, that's not their style. Could be some Unite stuff tho tbh. The most antihype reveal in a while
 

EntropyAtrophy

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Or maybe they’ll announce Mega Rayquaza for Pokémon Go, or something.
Maybe a Gen 4 remake announcement?
Whatever it is, I don’t think it’s Smash related just found it an odd method of VGA advertising that I felt was worth sharing.
 
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Fatmanonice

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<1-3 hours before TGA>

Nintendo Twitter: Hey all, tonight is TGA! Make sure to tune in for a great night!
It's funny because, as someone who coordinates events with my wife, your typical advertising plan should account for a MINIMUM of 6-8 weeks for decent exposure and that's mostly accounting for target demographics. If you're trying to expand who you're trying to appeal to then you need even longer. That's what kills me about this. It's hard enough to try to set up getting drinks with friends with two weeks' notice and here Nintendo has done ****-all if they plan on having any real presence tomorrow.
 
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