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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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bardbowman

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I mean, there probably were a number of people unhyped or outright upset at Cloud's reveal. I definitely saw alot more excitement and hype myself though.
Relative to the mountains of salt and hate people had over Bayo and Corrin, Cloud was very well received.

Although, I seem to remember hearing that Japan gamers weren't very happy he got in.
 

Fatmanonice

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Considering people liked that post, it wasn't just one person sharing that opinion. "You guys" colloquially is different than saying "most Smash fans."

I've seen before people in this thread trying to downplay other Square characters and it really just makes the whole thing unpleasant.
Because it's our thread, of course we're going to champion Geno over other Square characters. Don't be that guy that comes into a fanbase's thread and calls us liars and bad people and unironically expect zero retaliation.
 

Retro18

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We got more, I think. Cloud only has a fighter spirit, we have both Geno and Mallow.

Also, calling this now: Cloud as a fighter and Midgar as a stage will not be involved in Spirits mode at all, as in no Spirits can possess Cloud as part of their fight and no Spirit fights can take place on Midgar. With the way Square seems to be handling this, it makes sense.

Mainly, I still just have two questions about all this:

-Will Geno’s Mii Costume get a re-release? If so, when?
-What are Geno and Mallow’s Spirit fights going to be?
Didn't Midgar get shown as one of the stages in the WoL trailer
 

StormC

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Because it's our thread, of course we're going to champion Geno over other Square characters. Don't be that guy that comes into a fanbase's thread and calls us liars and bad people and unironically expect zero retaliation.
You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.

Also would like to know where I called anyone in this thread a bad person. I just said this type of discussion was unpleasant.
 

Teeb147

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You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.

Also would like to know where I called anyone in this thread a bad person. I just said this type of discussion was unpleasant.
I agree, but it's something that happens all the time. whenever a character could 'take a spot' of another, they get downplayed. Not everyone does it, and it'd be nice if less people did it, and would just promote their character instead of bashing another. I just think it's asking for a lot, considering this is the internet :O
(maybe not, and it'd be nice if all fans could get along)
 
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bardbowman

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You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.
I don't know what you're reading, but just because we like Geno more than other potential characters, and think that Geno has a better shot than other potential characters....That doesn't mean we're all trashing everyone else. You're right, there's a difference, but I don't see that happening here. At least, not on a overarching widespread level.
 

valkiriforce

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One thing to note concerning Geno's Mii Fighter outfit not being included is that it would be kind of strange to already have his likeness in the game if he was already planned for DLC. It would possibly dissuade some people from buying it if they felt they could settle for his likeness in the form of a Mii Fighter outfit. I think it's more likely they're focusing their work and attention on developing his character for DLC than to bring back his old Smash 4 outfit, but who knows.
 

Fatmanonice

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You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.

Also would like to know where I called anyone in this thread a bad person. I just said this type of discussion was unpleasant.
It's our thread. We can say what we want here. We're not orchestrating raids to go into the Sora/Dragon Quest threads. We're not creating smear campaigns. What's the issue? No, you didn't specifically say bad people but you're implying we're a toxic fanbase because of people making arguments against other Square Enix characters within our own thread. Don't like it? Argue your points or simply go. If you want to talk about things that aren't hard. If it offends you, there's the door. There are literally thousands of other threads to check out here.
 

Teeb147

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One thing to note concerning Geno's Mii Fighter outfit not being included is that it would be kind of strange to already have his likeness in the game if he was already planned for DLC. It would possibly dissuade some people from buying it if they felt they could settle for his likeness in the form of a Mii Fighter outfit. I think it's more likely they're focusing their work and attention on developing his character for DLC than to bring back his old Smash 4 outfit, but who knows.
Looks like we'll have to wait to see what's really happening. Someone pointed out that all 3rd party mii outfits arent there right now.
 

Loliko YnT

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You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.

Also would like to know where I called anyone in this thread a bad person. I just said this type of discussion was unpleasant.
Talking crap on others characters ?

While I admit I often taken part in speculation post , and what-not , I tried my best to come up with facts.

Like , when I think Sora don't give anything to Nintendo after his smash inclusion , It's because no recent KH games are on the Switch and his older KH Nintendo titles were remastered for PS3/4 KH collections. Sony has every KH games on their systems , if people want to know more about Sora , they'll want to play the KH games... And they are on a competitor console. That's a bad marketing move for Nintendo.

I'm not going to say "Oh , this weeaboo trash character lol he was only made because they couldn't use Mickey amirite fooooolks?!".
There , that's talking crap on a character. And then , I think I saw worse (not on this thread , but on the internet as a whole).

Even tho I didn't played KH games , I enjoyed reading the mangas (I also prefer Roxas because of it also , haha).
Talking crap on any other characters is useless.

However , while doing speculation , there is candidates , especially in our current situation with SE. So we tried our best to do a summary of pros and cons of the other candidates.

Even if they are more cons , I rarely saw people talking crap on others characters.
 

PolarPanda

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Oh going back to bosses

is master fortress still possible for a boss? Or you guys think the music was added for memory purposes?
We don't know for sure. In fact, we don't know about all the bosses. We only know which ones have unique arenas given the stage list. But Master Core could easily be a FD boss (or on the final boss arena) with Tabuu. I think he has a BIG CHANCE because master core actually has a new render in the online icons menu! A NEW render. Same with Tabuu. We figured out the bosses thru datamining, not from playing. And that list didn't include the FD boss names, so we'll have to wait and see. Given the new render, I think he's in.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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We're almost halfway through 300! 4.something pages until 350.

Then we can at least get to 400 by the end of the year
 

DaxMasterix

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You can champion a character without talking crap on others. It's not hard. Not like people are competing for ballot votes these days.

Also would like to know where I called anyone in this thread a bad person. I just said this type of discussion was unpleasant.
Talking crap? Can you show me the insults?
Man, every person looks and lives his own reality, you don't have to be a **** about it with the rest if you feel somebody else is attacking you.
Go and make a discussion with that person, but no one throws **** agaisnt other characters just because, we like character, we hate characters, we have free will to do it.
 

Datboigeno

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I think it’s kind of funny how many people we’ve had come into the thread recently to accuse us of being bad actors or toxic over having a difference of opinion. It’s like being of a fan of a certain team or political party and going into a thread about an opposing group and getting triggered over people being more positive in any way about their thing than your thing. Like, what the **** were you expecting? And it’s even more confusing when people take the words of one person and make big generalizations about the rest of the group.
 
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Fatmanonice

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Talking crap? Can you show me the insults?
Man, every person looks and lives his own reality, you don't have to be a **** about it with the rest if you feel somebody else is attacking you.
Go and make a discussion with that person, but no one throws **** agaisnt other characters just because, we like character, we hate characters, we have free will to do it.
This. Am I suppose to go into the Bandana Waddle Dee thread and scold them for not uplifting the other Kirby characters to equal or higher heights? Should I scold the Banjo thread for not ranking Steve higher? Yeah, I do think the one comment about Cloud being poorly received was wrong but at the same time I don't see a collaborative effort to "rewrite history" as if as a fanbase we're like a party bus full of Snidely Whiplash clones eager and ready to make everyone else miserable. Honestly, who thinks like this? Who looks at one comment and thinks "there's a grand conspiracy going on and it's my civic duty to call it out?" "These Geno fans must be stopped for the very future of the Smash community is at stake!"
 

KCCHIEFS27

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They've shown far more than tropical freeze characters at the VGA's. There's been the first gameplay of BoTW, Bayonetta 3's announcement, and the reveal of the Champion's Ballad DLC. A smash character announcement isn't out of the questio
Considering people liked that post, it wasn't just one person sharing that opinion. "You guys" colloquially is different than saying "most Smash fans."

I've seen before people in this thread trying to downplay other Square characters and it really just makes the whole thing unpleasant.
Yeah that’s really weird how people in the Geno thread are building up his chances compared to other Square charcters lmao go post somewhere else cowboy
 

RingJ5

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With everything going on, something I've thought of is if they decided to go with entirely different Square Enix characters, why would they even bother adding Geno and Mallow's as spirits? For someone as notoriously stingy as Square Enix, why would they bother to liscense off these characters with no payback? Yacht Club Gaming and WayForward are small indie companies that are honestly just happy to be included and Nintendo hardcore promotes their stuff as is while Ubisoft and Koei-Tecmo have active working partnerships with Nintendo ala Kingdom Battle, Hyrule Warriors, and Fire Emblem Warriors. As things stand right now, they're essentially letting Nintendo use the likeness of two of their characters for free. Does that sound like the Square we've come to know?

Without payback, Geno and Mallow's inclusion is a total consolation, practically freebies. If Square was such a pain to work with, why would they throw in free stuff when we're getting a picture that they almost torpedoed the whole deal? From a negotiating standpoint, this makes zero sense for Square Enix to throw in Geno and Mallow like complimentary bottles of water. Nintendo needed Square more than the other way around because Everyone is Here would have been ruined without Cloud. The biggest selling point of this game would have gone **** up without Cloud. Square had the negotiating power in the situation. Square had to concede literally nothing to have leverage the entire time.
The part that gets me the most is that Geno had literally the most obvious Spirit fight of any character in Smash.

-Mii Gunner with the Geno costume
-Beware the Forest Mushrooms as a backing track, provided by Yoko Shimomura(who is already working on Ultimate) in a deal that rightswise has literally nothing to do with Square.
-On either a Mario level or some kind of non-Mario forest stage.

It seems insane that Nintendo got Geno’s image rights but couldn’t get his costume back for that incredibly obvious Spirit fight, knowing how requested he is. Sounds like either Square was being so incredibly stingy that they didn’t want to give them anything else for “free”, or... that Mii Costume sold well enough that Square took special notice, since if it didn’t sell they might not have cared as much.
 

SpeedBirds

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We got more, I think. Cloud only has a fighter spirit, we have both Geno and Mallow.

Also, calling this now: Cloud as a fighter and Midgar as a stage will not be involved in Spirits mode at all, as in no Spirits can possess Cloud as part of their fight and no Spirit fights can take place on Midgar. With the way Square seems to be handling this, it makes sense.


It has been shown in the last Smash Direct that Zeke (from Xenoblade Chronicles 2) can be fought in Spirits mode as Cloud
 
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****, this has been an emotional rollercoaster for the ages. I really hope if Geno makes it, they reveal him at the VGAs, because I don't know how much more of this I can take. If Geno doesn't make it in (which will mean ALL OF MY MOST WANTED got snubbed), I'll just be ****ing done.

The discovery of a Geno spirit does not concern me in the slightest. We have literally no reason to assume Spirits are a hard deconfirmation. I don't even think Sakurai chose them all himself. I severely doubt even he would sit through billions of pictures to find 1,300 appropriate ones.

In the end, this is yet another fan rule, in a community known for making fan rules that get BTFO'd hard.

And from what I've heard, damn, Square seemed weirdly unenthusiastic about Cloud returning, judging from how little content they have (Midgar, 2 rips, two Cloud spirits, Geno/Mallow spirits, and of course, Cloud himself). If it was this insane getting them to comply for THIS MUCH, then Sora and a DQ rep seem like they'd be close to impossible to negotiate for DLC. I suppose this also affects Geno too, buy by a much lesser extent, since his copywright isn't as ridiculously hellish, thus making him more plausible by virtue of being, quote, "the lesser of three evils."

Bottom line, I think that we'll get either Geno, or no new Square Enix rep at all (which is honestly pretty likely)
 

Bendario

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The part that gets me the most is that Geno had literally the most obvious Spirit fight of any character in Smash.

-Mii Gunner with the Geno costume
-Beware the Forest Mushrooms as a backing track, provided by Yoko Shimomura(who is already working on Ultimate) in a deal that rightswise has literally nothing to do with Square.
-On either a Mario level or some kind of non-Mario forest stage.

It seems insane that Nintendo got Geno’s image rights but couldn’t get his costume back for that incredibly obvious Spirit fight, knowing how requested he is. Sounds like either Square was being so incredibly stingy that they didn’t want to give them anything else for “free”, or... that Mii Costume sold well enough that Square took special notice, since if it didn’t sell they might not have cared as much.
This is what gets me. I would figure that Geno would at least be guaranteed to have the costume, spirit, and music, but having only the spirit and nothing else is suspicious more than it is disappointing.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Do you remember Cloud's announcement? Most Smash fans were upset we got a character that's never been on a Nintendo console, and Final Fantasy fans were hyped for like a day or two, then ultimately stopped caring, likely because a lot of them don't even have Smash. It'd be the same thing with Master Chief.

If it were a character that has been on Nintendo consoles and is popular, like Crash or Spyro or something, lots of people would be hype as hell, but I cannot think of a single character that would cause more hype than a character that's been dead for years and people want in Smash. Banjo is the only character that could beat Geno in terms of hype, if you ask me. (This is coming from someone who doesn't care about Banjo at all, for the record.)
I wasn’t all to active on SmashBoards when Cloud got revealed, so I can’t speak to this site’s reaction, but I saw nothing but positivity and excitement at the time of his reveal. People were surprised and excited for this impossible character in Smash. Again, I wasn’t so active on the boards at the time (of any site other than Reddit maybe), so I don’t know. But I don’t remember much negativity at the time at all. Especially cause he was announced when DLC had no definitive end in sight.

And while people will ***** about the amount of content in his game, everyone not salty about his tier placement generally seemed to like him and lament the fact we were probably going to lose him going forward. He became accepted pretty quickly if there was negativity. That’s what I saw personally, but I was also much less involved admittedly.

I imagine Chief would be something similar. But I was just speaking from the perspective of what that would mean for Smash, and how big of a cross over moment that would be. The communities be damned on their thoughts, that’s the stuff of legends and I 100% believe that would be the most hype situation Nintendo could have on their hands. Literally including the mascot from a competitor in their cross over that has his own massive legacy? You couldn’t ask for a bigger moment. People would certainly lament Banjo not getting the spot, but the ire would die down pretty quickly I imagine.

And if that was ever on the table I couldn’t blame Sakurai for going for it over any other option. While it does move away from the established Nintendo-ness of Smash, and I’m usually not such a big fan of the concept, that’s also quite possibly one of the biggest moments in gaming. Regardless of how long the hype lasts, it would be of a much greater degree than just about anything I know of.

It’s not that I think Geno isn’t hype in his own way. But I think it might be a tad overstated is all. He’s a highly requested character of course, so he’s going to do well and have a King K Rool esque reaction (Though I think with every request you’re going to get some degree of diminishing returns because you’re clearly going for big requests, and each as pleasing as they might be, is a little bit less surprising). King K Rool was hype, but I would have argued that there were still certain characters capable of producing more hype than he despite his requests.

I’m just saying the bigger crossovers are inherently more hype than fan requests as far as I can see on a more general level.
 
D

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For anyone who thinks Geno is deconfirmed, just remember when Mewtwo was a trophy in Smash 4, people thought he was deconfirmed, and that was the completely wrong assumption. Spirits are the replacement of trophies. Even though they have different properties (trophies being collectibles and spirits being equippables), they are still replacements. If anything, trophies were more likely as a deconfirmarion because Sakurai described how they took a lot of development time, and spirits definitely take less development time
 

EricTheGamerman

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For anyone who thinks Geno is deconfirmed, just remember when Mewtwo was a trophy in Smash 4, people thought he was deconfirmed, and that was the completely wrong assumption. Spirits are the replacement of trophies. Even though they have different properties (trophies being collectibles and spirits being equippables), they are still replacements. If anything, trophies were more likely as a deconfirmarion because Sakurai described how they took a lot of development time, and spirits definitely take less development time
I’m going to pose a different take on Spirits. Sakurai made them out to be representation of all types of characters and series, and his words were something to the effect that “more matchups than ever before were possible” within the Spirits section.

I think that pretty fundamentally keys us in to the idea that he views Spirits differently than trophies. They’re made to be a representation of character in the form of some event battle, and they feel like the lowest form of a representation he can give to characters after assist trophies and Mii Costumes.

His wording from the November Direct always struck me as a little deliberate and seemed to be encouraging of that whole “match up” philosophy. I think they’re intended to be real representations of characters that otherwise have none, and beyond the original scope of trophies.

I don’t necessarily completely believe that Spirits deconfirm and we wont have much to go on until we get the first DLC Fighter, but I also wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they also ended up being deconfirms too.

I don’t think they exist 1 to 1 with the trophies.
 
D

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I’m going to pose a different take on Spirits. Sakurai made them out to be representation of all types of characters and series, and his words were something to the effect that “more matchups than ever before were possible” within the Spirits section.

I think that pretty fundamentally keys us in to the idea that he views Spirits differently than trophies. They’re made to be a representation of character in the form of some event battle, and they feel like the lowest form of a representation he can give to characters after assist trophies and Mii Costumes.

His wording from the November Direct always struck me as a little deliberate and seemed to be encouraging of that whole “match up” philosophy. I think they’re intended to be real representations of characters that otherwise have none, and beyond the original scope of trophies.

I don’t necessarily completely believe that Spirits deconfirm and we wont have much to go on until we get the first DLC Fighter, but I also wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they also ended up being deconfirms too.

I don’t think they exist 1 to 1 with the trophies.
I just wanted to point out that people also thought that being a trophy deconfirmed, so there isn't any reason to think that spirits do deconfirm. I know he described spirits in a way that wasn't for trophies, but Sakurai did say that trophies took a lot of development time, so he decided to make spirits instead. That sounds like a replacement to me
 

EricTheGamerman

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I just wanted to point out that people also thought that being a trophy deconfirmed, so there isn't any reason to think that spirits do deconfirm. I know he described spirits in a way that wasn't for trophies, but Sakurai did say that trophies took a lot of development time, so he decided to make spirits instead. That sounds like a replacement to me
Replacement doesn’t mean 1 to 1 though.

I think they’re fundamentally conceived of differently even though they may take the place of them for representing the smaller less intended characters for the game.

Edit: and I forgot to say it, but I do think there is at least a chance that different conception could mean the world and result in them deconfirming characters which would suck for all the fan bases I believe.
 
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D

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Replacement doesn’t mean 1 to 1 though.

I think they’re fundamentally conceived of differently even though they may take the place of them for representing the smaller less intended characters for the game.
Even if it isn't one to one, it is a replacement regardless, meaning that if the first doesn't deconfirm, then the second doesn't deconfirm
 

max_0888

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SE seems to think that any additional content would be DLC so people would pay for it. Its all about profit. Additional songs from FF would not make sense in the base game cause they wouldnt benefit financially as much. They could Still add FF songs like One winged Angel in the SE DLC pack along Geno. So that FF fan who dont care about Mario RPG would Still by it. Here's hoping Mario RPG and FF7 will get the spotlight !
 

Loliko YnT

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If spirits does deconfirm characters , then , It's kind of a waste , and it make DLC speculation rather straightforward lol

"Is your character a spirit ? Well too bad , he's out."
"Oh , Linkle isn't a spirit... SHE MUST BE DLC !"

If Nintendo want to make a character DLC even tho he's already a spirit, they will do that.
Besides , I don't think Sakurai know the full spirit list perfectly.

I mean , him searching for the name of the character they propose , and finding out he's a spirit so no lol , is a bit silly to me.
And even , Spirits take even less time to make than trophies , and DLCs fighters are probably not going to be included in WOL , or at least , they won't get a new section for them.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

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I don't think anyone is saying that people would ever consider characters like Dr. Kawashima, Yakuman and the chef from Personal Trainer: Cooking to have a chance at being playable someday.

If characters have a clearly-seen body that can adapt for combat, some spirits could be promoted someday. At this point though it's clearly nothing but conjecture.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Even if it isn't one to one, it is a replacement regardless, meaning that if the first doesn't deconfirm, then the second doesn't deconfirm
That’s not how it works though... if they’re not one to one, then they’re different things, even if minor in difference and that means different properties for different things.

We can’t say at all that Spirits do or don’t confirm right now. And I don’t think you can so easily apply the logic of trophies when Spirits seem honestly more intentional in how they represent characters and thus fundamentally different as a concept.
 
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D

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That’s not how it works though... if they’re not one to one, then they’re different things, even if minor in difference and that means differently properties for different things.

We can’t say at all that Spirits do or don’t confirm right now. And I don’t think you can do easily apply the logic of trophies when Spirits seem honestly more intentional in how they represent characters and thus fundamentally different as a concept.
I'm just saying, people thought that trophies deconfirmed, and look what happened. Even if we didn't know for sure if spirits deconfirmed, there isn't any reason to think that they do
 

JoeStronger

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Why hasn't my name been pulled from the list of supporters on the main page yet? I asked almost a month ago.
 

Slender

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Hey all! We've really been blasting through these pages lately, and we're almost as big as our Brawl thread!

genostar.png


Now, with the discovery of Geno and Mallow as Spirits, there's a lot of negativity and worry for our boy in blue. I'm on the "Spirits don't deconfirm" side, but I've been there since the Direct. From what I can see in-game, Spirits aren't labelled as a permanent residence for characters. Their description reads: "Characters that have left a mark on video-game history."

In my eyes, the Spirits are used to get as many characters into Smash as they can, one way or another. Representation like this is small, but it can hit hard. It doesn't necessarily drop characters out of the running for DLC. There's over 1000 Spirits; I'm sure that all of those characters are not immediately barred from becoming something more.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Why hasn't my name been pulled from the list of supporters on the main page yet? I asked almost a month ago.
The day before the last smash direct I said it was going to be the final update to the supporter list and I added everyone that followed my instructions in how to become a member of the supporter list.

But I guess if there is enough demand I could add people again since it's DLC speculation now
 

Rummy

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So after giving it some thought, I came to a conclusion, Call me crazy but here's what i think

Geno is probably still a Online Fighter Icon, but that's probably his only use as a Spirit along with Mallow.

If Square are so Stingy as to not allow Cloud anywhere near WoL, Do you think Square would withhold Geno/Mallow as Spirit battles and only allow them to appear as Images? We'll know soon before the game as who what fate the duo will reside but that's what i've been thinking.

And lastly, I still don't think it de-confirms any characters.
 
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