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Because both are JPGs and require virtually no work. Still, the takeaway is that not only was Geno allowed to be used for this game but Mallow too PLUS both of them are literally the only Square Enix characters in the game aside from Cloud. Like we've been saying, Square doesn't want to budge unless they're getting paid extra.
Something else to chew on, of the 6 third party Mii costumes not in the game in a tangible form, Geno is the only character they bothered to get the rights for in the base game.
So, I actually just found the data for SSB Ultimate and am attempting to datamine it right now. Problem is, the descriptions on mine are in Japanese so I can't read any of it. However, the main list of stuff is written in English. Can confirm that I also have found Geno and Mallow listed as spirits on my end, as well.
Edit: After going through the whole list of spirits twice, I have found no spirit related to Chocobo. Still just the Mallow, Geno, and 2 Cloud ones. That's all I can find from SE for spirits.
Edit 2: Although I haven't checked the stages or ATs thoroughly, I couldn't see any Minecraft spirits (unless I missed them twice), so either that's definitely DLC like some leakers have said, or it was leak bait of some kind. Also, I can confirm I've founded found Rare Listed as a copyright owner in the game, for what it's worth.
Wow, i just wake up and now this board is wild! I've caught up and i don't know what to think.....i really hope Square isn't being THIS stingy with Nintendo.
It was only a matter of time, I wouldn't be surprised if more spirits end up becoming DLC. The thing that gives me faith is the SSB4 splash screen reveal for Genos costume. If "Everyone is here," but the ONE mii fighter to get a screen isn't, then I believe that means either:
A) Paid DLC for the costume, with another screen?
B) paid DLC for the character
I don't understand what's going on with Square. Why other companies like Capcom, Sega and Konami are being so easy to work with and Square is just so ****ty? They're the ones benefited with this. Oh well whatever.
Anyhoo, I don't know if you've seen it but Pauline has been confirmed for Mario Tennis Aces, which makes blatantly obvious the fact that Nintendo is listening the fans for DLC. So if Geno is ranking high in polls and is being talked about everywhere I think that Nintendo can get the hint. Don't know if Square will be cooperative, in the light of what we've seen so far.
The fact that there's still no SMRPG music in the game is what's throwing me really off during this whole ordeal. Geno's costume is gone, yet SE allowed only Geno and Mallow to be SE content in the game, other than Cloud and FF-related aspects. At this point, the only thing I can logically think of is that Geno will indeed be DLC with some SMRPG tracks, and potentially a Mallow Mii costume.
Not sure where they're hearing this, but the General Thread is discussing that:
Cloud is not included in World of Light at all and is the only character not unlocked at some point during the campaign.
If this is true, then maybe there is something to the theory that Square is too stingy to get DQ, Sora, Crono, etc. What hilarious irony that would be for Square's stinginess to actually lead to Geno's inclusion.
Not sure where they're hearing this, but the General Thread is discussing that:
Cloud is not included in World of Light at all and is the only character not unlocked at some point during the campaign.
If this is true, then maybe there is something to the theory that Square is too stingy to get DQ, Sora, Crono, etc. What hilarious irony that would be for Square's stinginess to actually lead to Geno's inclusion.
Given that they've been so stingy with Cloud, who was already in the previous game, I think that it's impossible that we're getting a new Square character that isn't Geno. At this point I'm starting to see it difficult even for Geno, tbh.
I wonder what would have Sakurai done if he hadn't got the rights for Cloud again. The 'Everyone Is Here!!' bit would be completely destroyed just because of Square's silliness.
Given that they've been so stingy with Cloud, who was already in the previous game, I think that it's impossible that we're getting a new Square character that isn't Geno. At this point I'm starting to see it difficult even for Geno, tbh.
I wonder what would have Sakurai done if he hadn't got the rights for Cloud again. The 'Everyone Is Here!!' bit would be completely destroyed just because of Square's silliness.
Not sure where they're hearing this, but the General Thread is discussing that:
Cloud is not included in World of Light at all and is the only character not unlocked at some point during the campaign.
If this is true, then maybe there is something to the theory that Square is too stingy to get DQ, Sora, Crono, etc. What hilarious irony that would be for Square's stinginess to actually lead to Geno's inclusion.
I still think it's really weird that for there being "7" character names floating around SE the only actual name people have mentioned is Geno. And that includes NoA word of mouth. Even Hitagi's DQ leak didn't mention anyone specific and he walked that back anyway. Logistically how would dispersing 7 names even work? Like different people from different departments are told different names? And even then that doesn't line up with PolarPanda
's NoA source only hearing about Geno. If SE was being that secretive you'd think Nintendo would have also dispersed several names as well. Also, why would SE be willing to give Nintendo the rights to Geno and Mallow as spirits but include no other spirits from any of their other franchises? Even FF which Cloud is a part of. Why not more than just those two characters?
That's some crazy new info. Who knows what the heck is going on with the costumes/spirits and their copyrights--when you work with about half a dozen third parties or more, some things are likely gonna fall through the cracks. It seems like spirits and costumes would be the first things not to get renewed, especially when they had so many other deals to make.
It's also worth noting...correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all third party Mii costumes in 4 were DLC. Furthermore, they only came from third parties that had DLC characters to make deals for (excluding Namco, who were obviously already on board.) What I'm saying is, the only reason those costumes got in 4 was because they had to go back to these companies and reopen negotiations to get the DLC fighters--while they were at it, they got a few costumes as well, because there A) wasn't a ton to do after main development had finished, and B) an opportunity to offer these companies an additional incentive: Mii costumes that could make them even more money on top of charging for the fighters.
Contrast negotiations for the base game. Tons of deals to be made for Everyone is Here, and for stuff that can't make extra money (base game content.) It's not surprising many third party costumes got dropped. They aren't high priority in that situation. Spirits were, as they were needed for the new mode, and are likely easier to negotiate (it's just a still image of already existing art, no development cooperation required.)
So the deal here, I'm thinking, is that it was obviously harder to get stuff from Square, and all they could manage in time was Cloud, his stage, two songs and four spirits (two of which were Cloud himself.) I imagine Geno and Mallow were scraped out as spirits because that's all they could wrench from Square's grip in time, and they wanted to make sure to represent those characters for the fans.
But. That only applies to the initial round of negotiations. The ones for base game. I'm sure there are different talks that must go down for DLC, both from a time perspective and a legal one. I sincerely doubt they negotiated for EVERYTHING they planned to get, including DLC, at the start of development. That would slow things down far too much, especially considering the titanic task of getting everyone back. Why go through all that extra work for DLC, something you might not even do, when you needed the base stuff first?
So that's my take on all this. I think this is why some stuff is missing that was in 4, and why spirits likely WON'T disconfirm anyone third party (doesn't help first party characters, of course...but they might still have a shot too.)
I said recent game. SNES classics from 1996 are not recent. What profit does Nintendo get from advertising a SNES classic? Only if they bring it back on the Virtual Console or something like that but even then it will probably be cheap and they might be better of advertising a recent game.
I said recent game. SNES classics from 1996 are not recent. What profit does Nintendo get from advertising a SNES classic? Only if they bring it back on the Virtual Console or something like that but even then it will probably be cheap and they might be better of advertising a recent game.
Are you joking? Do you not know what an SNES Classic system is? Nintendo would make profits from advertising the SNES Classic from people buying the SNES Classic.
Are you joking? Do you not know what an SNES Classic system is? Nintendo would make profits from advertising the SNES Classic from people buying the SNES Classic.
Welp, as someone who fully believes that Spirits deconfirm, unless Polar brings some incredible new info that basically states otherwise later today, I think this might be the end. Was a fun ride, but it’s sad that we aren’t even getting any music or the costume.
In the meantime, though, has anyone seen a Linkle or Ninten Spirit yet, as was discussed earlier?
Welp, as someone who fully believes that Spirits deconfirm, unless Polar brings some incredible new info that basically states otherwise later today, I think this might be the end. Was a fun ride, but it’s sad that we aren’t even getting any music or the costume.
In the meantime, though, has anyone seen a Linkle or Ninten Spirit yet, as was discussed earlier?
On the topic that got brought up earlier of Hyrule Warriors stuff. Linkle would piss me off on multiple levels. I’d actually probably quite enjoy her, but it would definitely feel like most of the worse characters to choose from the respective sides of her character.
If we’re choosing Zelda characters, basically any of the popular villains and side characters makes more sense. Impa especially. And you’d be prioritizing a one off spin off character over several amazing choices from the main series. Plus she is in essence, another character based off Link which is the last thing we possibly need for the roster...
And for Koei Tecmo. Are we seriously going to pass up the opportunity for Ryu Hayabusa??? Ninja Gaiden is one of the larger trilogies that fits alongside the likes of Mega Man and Castlevania that help define the NES era from a third party perspective. He’s the clear cut best choice for a rep form them and there’s plenty of stuff he could do to separate himself from say Greninja.
I don’t dislike Linkle, I just think she’s a bad pick, and I’d wager that for any OC character from Hyrule Warriors. Like I adore that game, don’t get me wrong, but not so much for the brand new characters...
Also, all these revelations of Square’s lack of content and Geno as a spirit leave a bad impression on me. Maybe the arguments of Geno being easier to work with than others have gained some credence from Square clearly being obstinate to work with. But honestly, I’d be surprised if we just didn’t get a square rep at this point.
At the very least, the Square situation helps color why Geno probably wasn’t in the base roster.
If the spirits for Geno and Mallow were only uncovered via datamining, and the spirits themselves aren't in the game shown by screenshots or video recorded evidence, to me, that would confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that Geno will be DLC and Mallow would be involved somehow.
So the list of spirits is leaked. And almost all of the playable characters are in it? How is that a deconfirmation ?
Call me an optimist, but I see that as a good sign.
Clearly, we know that SE wanted Cloud back as DLC. So any additional SE content will be in the SE dlc pack. Probably means Chocobo and Geno mii costume. If Cloud is the Only SE spirit with Geno and Mallow then that means Geno and Mallow are next to be playable I see that as a good sign
If the spirits for Geno and Mallow were only uncovered via datamining, and the spirits themselves aren't in the game shown by screenshots or video recorded evidence, to me, that would confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that Geno will be DLC and Mallow would be involved somehow.
We don't have any gameplay footage of the Geno and Mallow spirit.
They could have been cut/scrapped last minute and kept for DLC. Especially with SE beeing this stingy with Cloud , them wanting Geno (and maybe Mallow ?) as DLC to get extra money (It's basically 50% of the DLCs sales for them , they fully own them) because Cloud isn't DLC just seem so likely.
Welp, as someone who fully believes that Spirits deconfirm, unless Polar brings some incredible new info that basically states otherwise later today, I think this might be the end. Was a fun ride, but it’s sad that we aren’t even getting any music or the costume.
In the meantime, though, has anyone seen a Linkle or Ninten Spirit yet, as was discussed earlier?
Well, they’ve implied that the DLC roster was finalized back in 2015, and according to Polar’s source there’s no current plans for a second pass, so... yes, I very much think that.
Though there certainly are a bunch of really weird circumstances regarding Geno’s current inclusion(no Mii Costume, no music, etc), I’m generally inclined to believe that Spirits actually do deconfirm, though I’d love to be proven wrong.
Until this one sells like absolute hotcakes, sure. They'd have to be stupid or crazy to not support this game for more than a year. It's already the most preordered game in the Switch's history
Well, one good thing from all this is that, because Geno (and Mallow) are the ONLY two SE spirits other than Cloud, that means they have a huge advantage over the other SE characters as far as DLC negotiations are concerned. They’ve got their foot in the door, and with how stingy and unreasonable SE seems to be, that’s certainly a plus.
On a side note, how would you all feel if, for whatever reason, we actually got Mallow as DLC instead of Geno?
Well, one good thing from all this is that, because Geno (and Mallow) are the ONLY two SE spirits other than Cloud, that means they have a huge advantage over the other SE characters as far as DLC negotiations are concerned. They’ve got their foot in the door, and with how stingy and unreasonable SE seems to be, that’s certainly a plus.
On a side note, how would you all feel if, for whatever reason, we actually got Mallow as DLC instead of Geno?
I'll still be happy to get a SMRPG rep , and as much as I liked Geno , I loved Mallow in my SMRPG playthrough.
But on the other hand... Even if what matter most to me is getting a character I love in Smash , I don't know if Mallow could promote well enough a SMRPG remake/sequel...
Them adding Mallow while they could is so nice from Sakurai/Nintendo .
It show that they know that we love SMRPG , not only Geno. If they only picked a Geno spirit , it was probably for the costume , but nope , the costume isn't there.
I honestly doubt we will get an announcement at the VGA... Except if they want to do a Mewtwo , and be like "HEY , BUY THE GAME , YOU'LL HAVE WHAT YOU WANT !" with Geno. I'm pretty sure this could work , Mewtwo was so wanted back then , and It's the same case for Geno. A simple .jpg of him is enough.
Now , the only thing we know is that the claim of Cloud beeing the last added veteran is probably true , and that there could be a Geno and Mallow spirits.
If they aren't , my god , It's a freaking lock. Yeah , It's not good to assume that , hype responsibly and stuff , but what reasons could they have to remove the Spirits this late in developpement ? I think it could be a similar situation to Sonic in Brawl:
-Can we have Sonic ?
-Nah , sorry fam.
*2 months before release*
-Wait , PUT HIM IN !
Except Square will want DLC because money.
If
they couldn't used Cloud in World of light , It's either that SE don't want their pretty boy to be possesed by an Isaac spirit , or that he was added so late that World of light was finished
, and striked a deal to have him in the base game and a DLC fighter(because "Everyone is here!" and they need profit from someone else).
They probably gave the Mallow and Geno spirits at first to gain their trust , and then realize later that they were the perfect candidate for this situation. FOR THIS SITUATION. I don't think they can allow themself to go through the trouble to get DQ and Sora in this situation.
Sure , possible , but it need Time to go through several companies.
But they have 2 perfect candidates. They fully own them , requested , give faith that Nintendo is listening for the pass and that they will throw some fan-favorites in it... It's as simple as "Yeah use Geno and Mallow , sign this contract and we're done."
Wherehas with others candidates , they need the approval of everyone else.
And heck , if I'm wrong about all of this , what matter is that out of all characters , they allow GENO AND MALLOW to be used with freaking CLOUD.
That alone show that they know the big interest for SMRPG in Smash , they know It's the perfect candidate for this franchise. Or even , that show that Sakurai did tried to get them again , or even NINTENDO !
This Mallow spirit isn't nothing , he's purely here because of how wanted Geno was , and SMRPG content to be in Smash. He's the second most popular SMRPG character !
Remember , they could have only picked Geno for the costume , but they asked for Mallow too ! And Square was fine with it ! If they are fine with it , why would they say no to them beeing DLC fighters ? A Geno & Mallow tag Team character ! They know It's not easy to get in Smash , and that this game print money !
Oh gosh , It's going to be a painful waaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiit.
It could be so hype , but it could also be a big oof if It's another SE rep or no SE rep at all.
Not sure where they're hearing this, but the General Thread is discussing that:
Cloud is not included in World of Light at all and is the only character not unlocked at some point during the campaign.
If this is true, then maybe there is something to the theory that Square is too stingy to get DQ, Sora, Crono, etc. What hilarious irony that would be for Square's stinginess to actually lead to Geno's inclusion.
What I don't get is what would Squeenix lose by including Cloud into World of Light. At best, is an exposure to see Cloud animated (if there is more animation than the opening), and interact with the game world, that I bet FF & Nintendo fans would love to play with. In exchange, not putting it damages quite severely Squeenix's reputation for being such a stiff company to deal with.
Anyhow, as a high blood pressure sensitive person, this whole situation would be so bad for my veins :'( If I die, I'm sure my soul will be grieving at Squeenix's office. It's not that far away from where I live so I bet my soul can reach 'em fast.
