Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[PolarPanda]

I could've joined these Smash forums years ago, but I'm glad I joined now than never. I honestly like talking here with y'all instead of YouTube because I'm finally with a bunch of great Geno fans and supporters, and this thread gives me hope whenever I'm in doubt of Geno... not to mention that I get harassed by a bunch of people on YouTube because I want Geno in Smash. lol

You mean this helps backup Geno being included in Smash? I couldn't understand if you said this goes against or helps Geno's chances, could you clarify please?

There are plenty of Discord servers that believe Geno is highly likely, such as my own.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean that's not entirely true, there is Dragon Quest builders that's in the US but that's a spinoff Minecraft clone. But there is a sequel in the works for that as well. I still think Geno has a better shot but they do have Dragon Quest content on the switch you could go buy now.

Didn't even know about it but this is probably why:

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/220650/dragon-quest-builders-revive-alefgard/?region=All

Even with Japan thrown in, the Switch version has sold only about 200k copies, with NA and EU being roughly 60k each.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Was Dragon Quest builders any good?

It's weird.

 

[Laszyking456]

K, so explain why Nintendo owns the full rights to the super mario rpg toys?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

K, so explain why Nintendo owns the full rights to the super mario rpg toys?View attachment 177550

What is that other copyright? It's in Japanese

スクウェア


Edit: That japanese copyright is Squaresoft

 

[ShinyReshiram]

What is that other copyright? It's in Japanese


Edit: That japanese copyright is Squaresoft

It says Square.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It says Square.

That's what I thought


No, the keychain is (c) Square and Nintendo.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It's pretty amazing how you learn new things when you play a game over and over again throughout the years and I recently started another playthrough of SMRPG. I was today years old when I realized that the fink flowers/snap dragons had giant red lips instead of red faces and that Octolot/Octovader were based on octoroks from the original Legend of Zelda.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I can't figure out what that one enemy that's like a group of bats or whatever is supposed to look like

 

[skydogc]

I can't figure out what that one enemy that's like a group of bats or whatever is supposed to look like

That's okay. I always thought Magmite was a bunch of ants under a rock that just tossed the rock towards you when it attacked. Didn't realize till last week it's a turtle looking rock creature.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The official Mario RPG keychain collection includes Piranha Plant

Really makes you think

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

The official Mario RPG keychain collection includes Piranha Plant

Really makes you think

Oh my goodness, is that the Piranha Plant from Smash? xD
And question, do any of you own a SMRPG keychain?

 

[Fatmanonice]

SMRPG's enemies are such a headtrip compared to all the other Mario RPGs. The game starts like a regular Mario game. Oh? Mario vs Bowser right off the bat! Cool! Wait, what the...?! "KNOCK, KNOCK MF! IT'S ME! A SWORD THE SIZE OF A SKYSCRAPER!" Then it goes back to regular Mario enemies for a bit and then it's like "oh, now there's a purple crocodile in a top hat and spats..." and then it just gets weirder and weirder, especially the bosses. Probably one of the most jarring things in the game is learning that most of the bosses with their unique personalities were mass produced on an assembly line. As a kid, I didn't really get just how dark that was among other things like how Valentina was going to kill Mallow's parents, Czar Dragon's skin melting off halfway through the battle, and Punchinello accidentally crushing himself to death.

 

[GenoFlash]

My favourite part of SMRPG is when Gaz pisses Mario off and Mallow has to restrain him from physically beating a child with his bare hands.

 

[paper roxy]

Do you really think Geno’s inclusion would boost sales of the SNES Classic? I dunno, it’s kind of a collector’s item for retro enthusiasts, not really something you’d have a kid asking for.

my little cousins and my friends little brothers all have or want a snes classic lmao

 

[GoodGrief741]

my little cousins and my friends little brothers all have or want a snes classic lmao

Well, two kids isn’t really, like, a lot of evidence.

But man do I envy those two kids.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I have an snes classic

I kind of want an NES classic

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

SMRPG's enemies are such a headtrip compared to all the other Mario RPGs. The game starts like a regular Mario game. Oh? Mario vs Bowser right off the bat! Cool! Wait, what the...?! "KNOCK, KNOCK MF! IT'S ME! A SWORD THE SIZE OF A SKYSCRAPER!"

In a way, Exor is literally Squaresoft... they crashed into Nintendo's HQ and developed Super Mario RPG instead of Nintendo.
At the beginning, everyone is thinking, "Wow, a casual Mario story, saving the Princess from Bowser... yippee."
**Faces Bowser first**
As you beat Bowser, you wonder, "Well how in the **** am I gonna get down from up here? I remember jumping 40 feet up to the chandelier and now I'm somehow hundreds of feet in the air. Oh well, it's time to go--"
**The whole castle quakes**
Then you see a giant sword with a face on it descend from the sky and into the keep.
Exor: "Oh, you thought this was going to be a normal Mario story? Not this time! Welcome to Square's side of the story!"

You know when a giant sword falls from the sky, it's gonna be a good game.

 

[*Verrix*]

Was Dragon Quest builders any good?

It's weird.

I mostly watched my son play it but it looked pretty cool. If you like Minecraft theres a lot of the same elements mixed with a light story. You actually build a town for people and rescue people to bring back to your town. Also there are times where the monsters just try and siege what you built so you need to plan for that as well.

 

[ZelDan]

My favourite part of SMRPG is when Gaz pisses Mario off and Mallow has to restrain him from physically beating a child with his bare hands.

My favorite part of Super Mario RPG is that it made Bruce Lee a canon part of the Mario universe.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

my little cousins and my friends little brothers all have or want a snes classic lmao

Oh man, I actually want one as well too. XD

 

[ShinyReshiram]

my little cousins and my friends little brothers all have or want a snes classic lmao

My little cousin got SNES Mini for her birthday.

I was the only one who was excited to play it lmao.

 

[yakko789]

It's hard to keep up with this thread cause of University. So, what's going on with DLC speculation this week?

 

[ForsakenM]

Yeah I'm starting to worry the SE rep might be DQ.

Verg's leaker bro Hitagi said he hasn't heard anything about it being Geno. And Verg didn't say who it is but won't deconfirm Geno.

Hitagi is less credible than LeakyPanda at this point.

 

[Lime3037]

Super Mario RPG has so many awesomely weird moments that I wish returned in later games.
- A lot of strange enemies that never appeared again, including living mammoth fossils, giant, muscular frogs, robotic dogs, and ghostly carrots.
- Bosses that are somehow even weirder than the average Mario boss. What on earth is Belome??
- Who made the Geno doll?

And then there are characters that are similar to other Mario characters that make you want to put a tin foil hat on...
- Is the Chancellor the pre-Toadsworth?
- Are the Moleville moles related in any way to Monty Moles?
- Does Geno (or rather, Heart, Note, Exclamation Point, Question Mark) serve Rosalina?

This game is just begging for a sequel.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It's hard to keep up with this thread cause of University. So, what's going on with DLC speculation this week?

More of the same

Sora, (Dragon Quest), Geno all being rumored by different people

...Though I guess Sora isn't so much rumored as he is "Logical".

Mostly (Dragon Quest) vs Geno.

Hitagi is saying Steve and Dragon Quest, other people say Banjo and Geno

Hoping for the "Light" future with Banjo and Geno. Although we did get the "Dark" future already with Box theory

 

[paper roxy]

Well, two kids isn’t really, like, a lot of evidence.

But man do I envy those two kids.

i mean, its more evidence than just saying the snes classic doesnt have an appeal with kids

 

[ForsakenM]

Again, I ask, how would Nintendo benefit from Geno? You seem to be under the misconception that Nintendo would get more money from his DLC than they would from other characters.

My goodness man, I'm just going to point out that people are getting a bit fresh with you because you are just flat-out ignoring their points while still promoting your side of the argument. On top of that, you keep asking the same question that you ignore the points of and you keep offering the same stance.

Regardless, let me try this in my own style. Nintendo would completely benefit from including Geno in Ultimate because:

- He is a die-hard fan requested character since the Melee/Brawl days that has gained a bit more of a following recently, thus people would definitely pay money for him.
- He is technically a third-party character despite him feeling like a Mario character, and TPCs always build up hype more than FPCs when it comes to Smash, thus making it even more likely that people will buy him.
- His character is essentially a holy spirit warrior of some sort possessing a doll that can fire off body parts. Not only is this idea crazy but it offers tons of options for making a cool and unique character that will stick out and capture people with his gameplay, making it more likely for people with no ties to the character to spend money on him.
- Geno is super popular in both Japan and the West, placing very high in polls constantly, which shows that many different people love and want the character in Smash and that adding him wouldn't be biased to one side's demand but rather would fulfill both. This means both sides get something they want and would pay for, meaning more money.
- It would begin to bridge the gap even more between Square and Nintendo, who have created amazing things together in the past, opening the door for more options in the future (which we have multiple sources saying that the Switch will get more new IPs and old IPs in the future).
- A Geno Amiibo... A G E N O A M I I B O ~ ! Look at this thing, it prints money!
- With the relationship between Square and Nintendo already well-patched and Square being a little desperate for money right now, negotiations for DLC profit split could go into Nintendo's favor, and even a 50/50 split between Square and Nintendo would still make them a ton of money.
- Geno belongs to Square only, thus neither Nintendo nor Square have to split profits with another company.
- Geno belonging to only Square also means that Nintendo doesn't have to work with companies like Disney or multiple individuals like Akira Toriyama just to get the rights to use a single character in Smash.
- Sakurai already HAS the rights to use Geno in Smash as evidence by the Mii Gunner Costume in Smash 4 and the player token icon in Ultimate. This means that there is SIGNIFICANTLY less red tape to go through to get Geno in Smash than to get Sora or anything DQ, if really any at all.
- Ultimate took a blow with the combination of announcing Shadow and Isaac as ATs, the last two characters being the least hype reveals with Ken and Incineroar, and Piranha Plant feeling like it took priority over highly-demanded fan picks. Adding Geno would be huge for the PR for Ultimate, as the game has been advertised as the best Smash game ever for many reasons but the main one being that all the fan picks made it in, and getting one of the last of the biggest picks in would restore hype and faith in the game.
- If for some reason Geno ends up being the only big fan pick, then his inclusion alone would lower the backlash from the rest of the DLC picks just because of how big a deal getting him in is.
- Players who don't know Geno but want to try him/want the whole roster may find interest in him and want to play his game (IE what happened to Fire Emblem with Marth/Roy's inclusion in Melee). Whereas Sora would need them to have a PS2/PS3/PS4 and DQ could also require you to have another system or perhaps import the game depending on the rep chosen, SMRPG can be played in the SNES Classic...which means Nintendo makes more money by selling more SNES Classics.

I can't think of any other positives at the moment, if someone can hit me up with them. Hopefully this helps you understand why picking Geno over another Square rep really is the best choice of action for Nintendo over all.

 

[FalconFire93]

My goodness man, I'm just going to point out that people are getting a bit fresh with you because you are just flat-out ignoring their points while still promoting your side of the argument. On top of that, you keep asking the same question that you ignore the points of and you keep offering the same stance.

Regardless, let me try this in my own style. Nintendo would completely benefit from including Geno in Ultimate because:

- He is a die-hard fan requested character since the Melee/Brawl days that has gained a bit more of a following recently, thus people would definitely pay money for him.
- He is technically a third-party character despite him feeling like a Mario character, and TPCs always build up hype more than FPCs when it comes to Smash, thus making it even more likely that people will buy him.
- His character is essentially a holy spirit warrior of some sort possessing a doll that can fire off body parts. Not only is this idea crazy but it offers tons of options for making a cool and unique character that will stick out and capture people with his gameplay, making it more likely for people with no ties to the character to spend money on him.
- Geno is super popular in both Japan and the West, placing very high in polls constantly, which shows that many different people love and want the character in Smash and that adding him wouldn't be biased to one side's demand but rather would fulfill both. This means both sides get something they want and would pay for, meaning more money.
- It would begin to bridge the gap even more between Square and Nintendo, who have created amazing things together in the past, opening the door for more options in the future (which we have multiple sources saying that the Switch will get more new IPs and old IPs in the future).
- A Geno Amiibo... A G E N O A M I I B O ~ ! Look at this thing, it prints money!
- With the relationship between Square and Nintendo already well-patched and Square being a little desperate for money right now, negotiations for DLC profit split could go into Nintendo's favor, and even a 50/50 split between Square and Nintendo would still make them a ton of money.
- Geno belongs to Square only, thus neither Nintendo nor Square have to split profits with another company.
- Geno belonging to only Square also means that Nintendo doesn't have to work with companies like Disney or multiple individuals like Akira Toriyama just to get the rights to use a single character in Smash.
- Sakurai already HAS the rights to use Geno in Smash as evidence by the Mii Gunner Costume in Smash 4 and the player token icon in Ultimate. This means that there is SIGNIFICANTLY less red tape to go through to get Geno in Smash than to get Sora or anything DQ, if really any at all.
- Ultimate took a blow with the combination of announcing Shadow and Isaac as ATs, the last two characters being the least hype reveals with Ken and Incineroar, and Piranha Plant feeling like it took priority over highly-demanded fan picks. Adding Geno would be huge for the PR for Ultimate, as the game has been advertised as the best Smash game ever for many reasons but the main one being that all the fan picks made it in, and getting one of the last of the biggest picks in would restore hype and faith in the game.
- If for some reason Geno ends up being the only big fan pick, then his inclusion alone would lower the backlash from the rest of the DLC picks just because of how big a deal getting him in is.
- Players who don't know Geno but want to try him/want the whole roster may find interest in him and want to play his game (IE what happened to Fire Emblem with Marth/Roy's inclusion in Melee). Whereas Sora would need them to have a PS2/PS3/PS4 and DQ could also require you to have another system or perhaps import the game depending on the rep chosen, SMRPG can be played in the SNES Classic...which means Nintendo makes more money by selling more SNES Classics.

I can't think of any other positives at the moment, if someone can hit me up with them. Hopefully this helps you understand why picking Geno over another Square rep really is the best choice of action for Nintendo over all.

I agree with everything said here, very good points.

 

[RingJ5]

- Ultimate took a blow with the combination of announcing Shadow and Isaac as ATs, the last two characters being the least hype reveals with Ken and Incineroar, and Piranha Plant feeling like it took priority over highly-demanded fan picks. Adding Geno would be huge for the PR for Ultimate, as the game has been advertised as the best Smash game ever for many reasons but the main one being that all the fan picks made it in, and getting one of the last of the biggest picks in would restore hype and faith in the game.

I’d like to add to this particular point, because it isn’t just a case of “Oh, the Grinch leak happened in the last week of October and suddenly ruined everything” it’s “they’ve seen the particularly negative reaction to Box Theory ever since the September direct, and have known for all this time how underwhelming the final announcements would be compared to what people were expecting.”

It wouldn’t shock me if they fast-tracked a heavily fan-requested reveal to be the first Fighter Pass announcement as a way to counteract the negativity. Did we hear about the Square rep being first before September? Could be related.

 

[pap64]

Pardon if I sound like I am raining down on everyone's parade, I swear that is not my intention. But the more time passes, the less of a chance I see Geno getting in. Not to make papagenos sad ( ), but I have this gut feeling that if the Vergeben leaks are correct and the Square rep is one of the DLC characters, it will likely be someone else from Final Fantasy, a Dragon Quest Rep or Sora (which is the miracle character of the three).

The reason why I feel like this is because even though there are several items proving that Sakurai wants Geno in the game and both Nintendo and Square are aware of the character;s existence and popularity, the fact that Sakurai stated that Nintendo were the ones that chose the DLC characters makes Geno's chances slim by the minute.

I've said this in other threads, but I suspect the reason Nintendo made that decision is because they both want more of their IPs in the game AND want third party characters that best represent how well Nintendo is working with third parties and even independent developers. So my suspicion that the choice won't necessarily be based on what the fanbase wants but rather what Nintendo wants to showcase. Geno stood up there with Ridley and K.Rool as that one character everyone wanted in Smash not because of his mega popularity or "in the moment" fad (like how Isabelle represents the newfound mainstream popularity of Animal Crossing versus Villager which represents Animal Crossing as a whole, not calling Isabelle a fad character BTW just that she is the representation of where AC stands as a franchise right now) but because of his legacy within one of the best SNES RPGs ever made.

I mean in my fanboy heart, I think Nintendo should choose Geno because to me Geno represents the Nintendo/Square relationship better than Cloud does. Yeah, Nintendo will FINALLY get re-releases of all the classic Final Fantasy games from the PSone and PS2 eras, but for those that grew up in that era, Final Fantasy VII was basically the realization that things would never be the same between Nintendo and Square. So while having Cloud in Smash is kinda like a peace treaty, he doesn't best represent how Nintendo is with Square now.

Geno, on the other hand, represents a time in which Square and Nintendo were so close, they decided to "crossover" and use Mario in an RPG game, which turned out to be one of the best games on the SNES, and was likely a lot of people's first RPG (it sure was for me). So having him in Ultimate would be like a callback to their best eras ever, sorta like how K.Rool represents the growth of Donkey Kong beyond his arcade roots. We would have Cloud representing Square and Nintendo today and Geno being the Square and Nintendo of the past. That would be beautifully poetic in my eyes.

But Geno should have been base roster character. Again, if Nintendo wants full control of DLC and have made their choices, I think they want to go with characters that have more of a broad appear, are able to promote a character or a franchise, and make more money. Geno may have the legacy and cult following, but I don't think neither Nintendo or Square see him as being "profitable DLC".

So...yeah... Not that Ultimate won't be a great game, and I will still live regardless of who gets in and doesn't get in. Just that the more time passes I think Geno won't go beyond a Mii costume in Smash. But hey, if there is anything that Mario RPG taught us is that wishes and dreams can come true and that there are powers out there that make sure those dreams stay alive, so who knows.

 

[Robertroid]

What is that other copyright? It's in Japanese

スクウェア


Edit: That japanese copyright is Squaresoft

Wait wait waaaaait....
For what it's written, it says, applying romaji to the japanese characters:

© 1995 Nintendo / Sukuuea
Kyarakuta-:
© Nintendo,
© Sukuuea

The last part caught me up:
Kyarakuta- => Character
If I'm not messing things up, it should mean the rights for Geno as a character (rather than the toy). And it says "Nintendo" and "Square". Does that mean that the property is shared? You already established here that Geno is owned 100% by Square. Then...why?
If I didn't understood wrongly, I demand further investigation! ò_ó

 

[Datboigeno]

Pardon if I sound like I am raining down on everyone's parade, I swear that is not my intention. But the more time passes, the less of a chance I see Geno getting in. Not to make papagenos sad ( ), but I have this gut feeling that if the Vergeben leaks are correct and the Square rep is one of the DLC characters, it will likely be someone else from Final Fantasy, a Dragon Quest Rep or Sora (which is the miracle character of the three).

The reason why I feel like this is because even though there are several items proving that Sakurai wants Geno in the game and both Nintendo and Square are aware of the character;s existence and popularity, the fact that Sakurai stated that Nintendo were the ones that chose the DLC characters makes Geno's chances slim by the minute.

I've said this in other threads, but I suspect the reason Nintendo made that decision is because they both want more of their IPs in the game AND want third party characters that best represent how well Nintendo is working with third parties and even independent developers. So my suspicion that the choice won't necessarily be based on what the fanbase wants but rather what Nintendo wants to showcase. Geno stood up there with Ridley and K.Rool as that one character everyone wanted in Smash not because of his mega popularity or "in the moment" fad (like how Isabelle represents the newfound mainstream popularity of Animal Crossing versus Villager which represents Animal Crossing as a whole, not calling Isabelle a fad character BTW just that she is the representation of where AC stands as a franchise right now) but because of his legacy within one of the best SNES RPGs ever made.

I mean in my fanboy heart, I think Nintendo should choose Geno because to me Geno represents the Nintendo/Square relationship better than Cloud does. Yeah, Nintendo will FINALLY get re-releases of all the classic Final Fantasy games from the PSone and PS2 eras, but for those that grew up in that era, Final Fantasy VII was basically the realization that things would never be the same between Nintendo and Square. So while having Cloud in Smash is kinda like a peace treaty, he doesn't best represent how Nintendo is with Square now.

Geno, on the other hand, represents a time in which Square and Nintendo were so close, they decided to "crossover" and use Mario in an RPG game, which turned out to be one of the best games on the SNES, and was likely a lot of people's first RPG (it sure was for me). So having him in Ultimate would be like a callback to their best eras ever, sorta like how K.Rool represents the growth of Donkey Kong beyond his arcade roots. We would have Cloud representing Square and Nintendo today and Geno being the Square and Nintendo of the past. That would be beautifully poetic in my eyes.

But Geno should have been base roster character. Again, if Nintendo wants full control of DLC and have made their choices, I think they want to go with characters that have more of a broad appear, are able to promote a character or a franchise, and make more money. Geno may have the legacy and cult following, but I don't think neither Nintendo or Square see him as being "profitable DLC".

So...yeah... Not that Ultimate won't be a great game, and I will still live regardless of who gets in and doesn't get in. Just that the more time passes I think Geno won't go beyond a Mii costume in Smash. But hey, if there is anything that Mario RPG taught us is that wishes and dreams can come true and that there are powers out there that make sure those dreams stay alive, so who knows.

I feel like you should take a look at some previous posts in this thread because several people have laid out why exactly having Geno in the game would actually be showcasing "more of their IPs in the game AND want third party characters that best represent how well Nintendo is working with third parties and even independent developers". The TL;DR of it is that having Geno as DLC would be an opportunity for Nintendo and Square to showcase their previous working relationship which is now reinvigorated, a chance for Nintendo to please hardcore fans, and an opportunity to promote the SNES Classic which SMRPG is on. At this point in time there is no KH game coming out for the Switch and DQ is not popular outside of Japan. Not saying those things couldn't happen, but if Nintendo was trying to market an SE character going with someone like Geno that has been a popular fan wish for so long and could also be used as a gateway to get newer fans interested in the Mario RPG series and SNES Classic seems like it would be more beneficial to them comparatively. You already laid out yourself why Geno would be a good pick for Nintendo to use as DLC even as a representation of their prior (healthier) relationship with Square. At this point the years of fan demand for Geno alone would be a smart choice for "profitable DLC". Arguably moreso than DQ and most FF characters.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Alright , here is why I don't think we'll get a DQ swordmen or Sora first:

Starting off the DLC pack with a swordman that isn't that requested ( Sora's request are more recent , the only requested swordmens are Isaac and Lloyd.) will just annoy everyone.
Smash fanbase , or casuals players.

We got 3 Sword characters in Sm4SH DLC , and a lot of people didn't liked it , especially because of Corrin. Roy was requested , and Cloud Strife is Cloud FREAKING STRIFE.

And before you say "where is your source about people not liking Sword characters".

When people first saw Isaac , the one who didn't do some research were like " Oh Come on , another generic swordman? " despise having way more than that.

First impression is a Big thing. So even if the DQ swordman use magic , more casuals people will be like " Well , Robin already do that! ".

Anyway , about Geno ...

I am the only one that was surprised how he talked to Smithy?

Before that , he's calm , confident , reminding everyone that It's the final battle and that we should be ready for it.

And then he's like " Yo Smithy ! Gimme da star or we're gonna kick your butt !"
Yeah ,that's not exactly what he said , but for some reason , I found it both hilarious and cute lol

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm feel like I'm just cycling through points I've already made but we got our hopes way too far up for Geno in the base roster. Cloud was paid DLC, why would anyone else be different than their most popular and iconic character? Aside from adjustments to Cloud's moves and stats, the Square Enix content shown off so far is the exact same as SSB4. No new music, no assist trophies, not even Spirits so far. Square doesn't want to budge an extra muscle unless people are paying them to.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Pardon if I sound like I am raining down on everyone's parade, I swear that is not my intention. But the more time passes, the less of a chance I see Geno getting in. Not to make papagenos sad ( ), but I have this gut feeling that if the Vergeben leaks are correct and the Square rep is one of the DLC characters, it will likely be someone else from Final Fantasy, a Dragon Quest Rep or Sora (which is the miracle character of the three).

The reason why I feel like this is because even though there are several items proving that Sakurai wants Geno in the game and both Nintendo and Square are aware of the character;s existence and popularity, the fact that Sakurai stated that Nintendo were the ones that chose the DLC characters makes Geno's chances slim by the minute.

I've said this in other threads, but I suspect the reason Nintendo made that decision is because they both want more of their IPs in the game AND want third party characters that best represent how well Nintendo is working with third parties and even independent developers. So my suspicion that the choice won't necessarily be based on what the fanbase wants but rather what Nintendo wants to showcase. Geno stood up there with Ridley and K.Rool as that one character everyone wanted in Smash not because of his mega popularity or "in the moment" fad (like how Isabelle represents the newfound mainstream popularity of Animal Crossing versus Villager which represents Animal Crossing as a whole, not calling Isabelle a fad character BTW just that she is the representation of where AC stands as a franchise right now) but because of his legacy within one of the best SNES RPGs ever made.

I mean in my fanboy heart, I think Nintendo should choose Geno because to me Geno represents the Nintendo/Square relationship better than Cloud does. Yeah, Nintendo will FINALLY get re-releases of all the classic Final Fantasy games from the PSone and PS2 eras, but for those that grew up in that era, Final Fantasy VII was basically the realization that things would never be the same between Nintendo and Square. So while having Cloud in Smash is kinda like a peace treaty, he doesn't best represent how Nintendo is with Square now.

Geno, on the other hand, represents a time in which Square and Nintendo were so close, they decided to "crossover" and use Mario in an RPG game, which turned out to be one of the best games on the SNES, and was likely a lot of people's first RPG (it sure was for me). So having him in Ultimate would be like a callback to their best eras ever, sorta like how K.Rool represents the growth of Donkey Kong beyond his arcade roots. We would have Cloud representing Square and Nintendo today and Geno being the Square and Nintendo of the past. That would be beautifully poetic in my eyes.

But Geno should have been base roster character. Again, if Nintendo wants full control of DLC and have made their choices, I think they want to go with characters that have more of a broad appear, are able to promote a character or a franchise, and make more money. Geno may have the legacy and cult following, but I don't think neither Nintendo or Square see him as being "profitable DLC".

So...yeah... Not that Ultimate won't be a great game, and I will still live regardless of who gets in and doesn't get in. Just that the more time passes I think Geno won't go beyond a Mii costume in Smash. But hey, if there is anything that Mario RPG taught us is that wishes and dreams can come true and that there are powers out there that make sure those dreams stay alive, so who knows.

We appreciate thread contributions but please try and read at least the previous couple of pages which continue to reiterate logical points for why Geno makes the most sense

 

[Fatmanonice]

A summary of major points against Geno's main competitors:

Sora:

-Owned by Disney, not Square.

-1 cameo outside of Kingdom Hearts and it was a free LTO DLC summon in World of Final Fantasy.

-No plans yet for Switch, last game on a Nintendo platform was 6 years ago and has since been remastered multiple times for Nintendo's competitors.

-No mainline games on Nintendo platforms, no rereleases either.

-Regularly beaten by Geno in popularity polls among Smash fans including Japan and Europe.

-Nintendo currently has a movie and theme park partnership with Universal Studios, making Disney a competitor in both aspects.

Dragon Quest:

-30 year history but overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than anywhere else (~93% overall sales)

-No real Western success since the NES days.

-Owned by Armor Project, not Square.

-Music for the franchise is individually owned by the composer.

-Said composer is openly anti LGBTQ and has publically denied Japan's WWII war crimes.

-No Nintendo exclusives since 2011 and it was a Japan only spin-off for the DS.

-No stand out character recognizable to modern Western audiences.

-No virtual console releases in any region for the Wii or Wii U and not included in the NES or SNES Classic in any region either.

-Dragon Quest XI sold roughly 80k in North America, Dragon Quest Builders for Switch 60k.

-Dragon Quest XI S was announced less than two months ago with no definitive release date or plans to leave Japan.

-Virtually no Smash demand, not even in Japan.

-Last Japanese preferred series added in Smash was Fire Emblem (which was almost cut from the NA and EU versions for this reason) in 2001 with Marth being the last 100% unique character added solely because of Japanese demand.

I think that covers all the major talking points.

 

[ChoccyStar]

-No virtual console releases in any region for the Wii or Wii U and not included in the NES or SNES Classic in any region either.

There's a Dragon Quest game in the Shonen Jump 50th anniversary limited edition FC* classic.

https://www.cnet.com/news/japans-getting-a-special-nes-classic-loaded-with-dragon-ball-games/

 

[Fatmanonice]

There's a Dragon Quest game in the Shonen Jump 50th anniversary limited edition FC* classic.

https://www.cnet.com/news/japans-getting-a-special-nes-classic-loaded-with-dragon-ball-games/

It's kind of a moot point to make though because it's noted as a limited edition Japanese exclusive focused on Shonen Jump properties, adding more fuel to the fire that the series' appeal is overwhelmingly Japanese. Furthermore, it's the only Nintendo virtual console-esque release in its 12 year history while, again, being a Japanese only collector's edition.

 

[Necro Toad]

A summary of major points against Geno's main competitors:

Sora:

-Owned by Disney, not Square.

-1 cameo outside of Kingdom Hearts and it was a free LTO DLC summon in World of Final Fantasy.

-No plans yet for Switch, last game on a Nintendo platform was 6 years ago and has since been remastered multiple times for Nintendo's competitors.

-No mainline games on Nintendo platforms, no rereleases either.

-Regularly beaten by Geno in popularity polls among Smash fans including Japan and Europe.

-Nintendo currently has a movie and theme park partnership with Universal Studios, making Disney a competitor in both aspects.

Dragon Quest:

-30 year history but overwhelmingly more popular in Japan than anywhere else (~93% overall sales)

-No real Western success since the NES days.

-Owned by Armor Project, not Square.

-Music for the franchise is individually owned by the composer.

-Said composer is openly anti LGBTQ and has publically denied Japan's WWII war crimes.

-No Nintendo exclusives since 2011 and it was a Japan only spin-off for the DS.

-No stand out character recognizable to modern Western audiences.

-No virtual console releases in any region for the Wii or Wii U and not included in the NES or SNES Classic in any region either.

-Dragon Quest XI sold roughly 80k in North America, Dragon Quest Builders for Switch 60k.

-Dragon Quest XI S was announced less than two months ago with no definitive release date or plans to leave Japan.

-Virtually no Smash demand, not even in Japan.

-Last Japanese preferred series added in Smash was Fire Emblem (which was almost cut from the NA and EU versions for this reason) in 2001 with Marth being the last 100% unique character added solely because of Japanese demand.

I think that covers all the major talking points.

We should always remember that Geno already beat all Square reps with exception of Cloud and Chocobo when Square and Nintendo choose him over any other character to maximize Cloud's DLC sales.

What is your opinion about other Square reps like Crono, Sephiroth, Chocobo, Octopath rep, other FF rep, The World Ends With You rep, etc? Do you believe that any other character besides DQ and Sora has good chances over Geno?