Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[MattX20]

More weird Mario announcements incoming

MARIO X ULTRAMAN



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...bowser_get_reimagined_as_tokusatsu_characters

As a fan of Godzilla, classic Ultraman, and Kamen Rider, this is an official crossover I wasn't expecting

 

[Icewolff92]

I don’t think that actually happened. Where’d you get the GTA and Fortnite music takedowns from? I looked online and I don’t see anything about it.

People have mentioned that in the thread more than once, a while back... Let me go back and check where

 

[Malo Mart]

I've went over this before, but I'll say it briefly here again: FF and DQ got the short end of the stick music-wise because their composers are hard to work with and likely charged exorbitant prices for their music (at least for the orchestrated songs, in the case of DQ).

On the other hand, SMRPG music would be very easy to obtain the rights to because it's owned either by Square Enix directly, who don't seem too bothered with negotiating with Nintendo, or by Yoko Shimomura herself, who isn't to be on a high horse like Uematsu or Sugiyama AND who has allowed plenty of her music into Smash already, as well as working extensively on the game by arranging several tracks, including a few DLC ones. It's a win-win!


tl;dr I'll be SHOCKED if the music selection from SMRPG isn't at least bigger than DQ's.

 

[Firox]

I've went over this before, but I'll say it briefly here again: FF and DQ got the short end of the stick music-wise because their composers are hard to work with and likely charged exorbitant prices for their music (at least for the orchestrated songs, in the case of DQ).

On the other hand, SMRPG music would be very easy to obtain the rights to because it's owned either by Square Enix directly, who don't seem too bothered with negotiating with Nintendo, or by Yoko Shimomura herself, who isn't to be on a high horse like Uematsu or Sugiyama AND who has allowed plenty of her music into Smash already, as well as working extensively on the game by arranging several tracks, including a few DLC ones. It's a win-win!


tl;dr I'll be SHOCKED if the music selection from SMRPG isn't at least bigger than DQ's.

Man, I really think it's tragic that FF and DQ have such diva composers. All that epic music trapped behind an exorbitant paywall. In the case of DQ, I'm not gonna lie, we REALLY needed the orchestrated music. The songs we ended up with in smash are like combining crappy 80's 16-bit songs with nails on a chalkboard. I love Hero's stage, but the music alone drives me away from ever voluntarily playing on it. I know that's probably just me, but damn, the music on there is just painful to listen to for more than 60 seconds.

 

[Icewolff92]

Man, I really think it's tragic that FF and DQ have such diva composers. All that epic music trapped behind an exorbitant paywall. In the case of DQ, I'm not gonna lie, we REALLY needed the orchestrated music. The songs we ended up with in smash are like combining crappy 80's 16-bit songs with nails on a chalkboard. I love Hero's stage, but the music alone drives me away from ever voluntarily playing on it. I know that's probably just me, but damn, the music on there is just painful to listen to for more than 60 seconds.

As someone that has played DQ11, I argue that the orchestral version is not that much better (and that genre is one of my favorites)

On the other hand, SMRPG music would be very easy to obtain the rights to because it's owned either by Square Enix directly, who don't seem too bothered with negotiating with Nintendo, or by Yoko Shimomura herself, who isn't to be on a high horse like Uematsu or Sugiyama AND who has allowed plenty of her music into Smash already, as well as working extensively on the game by arranging several tracks, including a few DLC ones. It's a win-win!

Which is honestly I think the music things are just a question of Nintendo doing a "takedown two as a signal for them to take down the rest" scenario even if Geno is in

 

[Firox]

As someone that has played DQ11, I argue that the orchestral version is not that much better (and that genre is one of my favorites)

Oh, I totally agree. In fact, I found the orchestral music of DQ11 to be hilariously pretentious, but it would have at least made Hero's stage tolerable.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is something he and many other have given a similar take on. Each SE “game” represented has 2 songs. Cloud has 2. Hero has 8 but they circumvent this by giving us 2 from each of the 4 DQ games represented by Hero. So it is logical that Geno would also only get 2 SMRPG songs.

Nintendo may decide to pad this number out by adding some more songs from other mario RPGs such as Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario.

This. Supposedly 2 songs per game is Square Enix's DLC standard across the board, not just Smash, and has been for close to a decade now.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

As someone that has played DQ11, I argue that the orchestral version is not that much better (and that genre is one of my favorites)

As someone that has played most DQ games (safe for II and VI), It's really just XI's music as a whole that is bad imo. The orchestral versions of preceding games are amazing and still hold up really well. Really just shows how old Sugiyama has become, he needs his successor to step in fast.

Also I feel like they really did the Franchise wrong by only picking the Overworld and Battle Themes of the Heroes' each respective entry.

Oh and by the way! Hello everyone, I'm a new face here in this thread! Never played SMRPG, but I'm a big fan of Yoko Shimomura's works so for Geno to bring some music with him in Smash would be really dope! :D

 

[Polarthief]

Pajama Sam is unironically amazing

Okay but can we get Pablo Sanchez? Every time he's picked or gets a kill, we get to hear his clip of entering the baseball field, too (just the first 8 seconds for anyone who has no idea what I'm talking about). Also inb4 Backyard Baseball for Switch. I'd unironically flip out at that.
(sorry this is so late, I took a long nap)

I think we should be able to get more than 2 tracks from SMRPG, everyone goes on about how Square is so stingy but it’s really just their game’s composers and whoever charging high prices for stuff. SMRPG shouldn’t be in a legal mess, though. The 2 game rule probably isn’t a thing, either, and they probably just got two songs per DQ Hero due to not being able to afford much more and wanting equal amounts for each.

I mean, yeah if it's to be believed that the issue with FF/DQ is the art person and Uetmatsu/Sugiyama (respectively), I have no reason to expect less than the usual amount of tracks: ~8-12ish. Shimomura is NOT a total diva like those two (Sugiyama's also a total "not for the people" kind of person).

and more significantly, one of the most popular games in the world having a spotlight in the self-titled video game hall of fame.

If this was that important to Nintendo, where's Minecraft, PUBG/Fortnite, and World of Warcraft then?

This. Supposedly 2 songs per game is Square Enix's DLC standard across the board, not just Smash, and has been for close to a decade now.

Okay but what games are those songs being taken from? Uematsu (FF) and Sugiyama (DQ) aren't the most pleasant to work with. From everything I can find on Shimomura though, she seems to be the total opposite. In addition, some of those songs she worked on happen to use motifs from Koji Kondo. Are there other games that have taken songs from any other SE game? To my immediate knowledge (because I don't have a freaking clue), I can't think of any of their other IPs that have done cross-overs. Except Fortune Street, but as you said, "DLC standard", not "base game standard", cuz there's quite a lot of DQ assets in Fortune Street. I'd say it's like 45% DQ and 55% Mario.

If this is a rule of "SE only gives 2 songs, of their own IPs, and no more" in a DLC pack, Nintendo could easily release another update alongside the DLC pack, to anyone who owns FP2/Geno's DLC pack, to get extra songs. After all, it's the composer who owns the tracks, yes? Even if SE says no, Shimomura can still say yes, and I'm assuming she has the total authority on the songs, just like Nintendo has total authority on DLC picks even though I'm sure Sakurai is still there nudging a few names.

 

[Droodle]

Okay but can we get Pablo Sanchez? Every time he's picked or gets a kill, we get to hear his clip of entering the baseball field, too. Also inb4 Backyard Baseball for Switch. I'd unironically flip out at that.
(sorry this is so late, I took a long nap)



I mean, yeah if it's to be believed that the issue with FF/DQ is the art person and Uetmatsu/Sugiyama (respectively), I have no reason to expect less than the usual amount of tracks: ~8-12ish. Shimomura is NOT a total diva like those two (Sugiyama's also a total "not for the people" kind of person).



If this was that important to Nintendo, where's Minecraft, PUBG/Fortnite, and World of Warcraft then?



Okay but what games are those songs being taken from? Uematsu (FF) and Sugiyama (DQ) aren't the most pleasant to work with. From everything I can find on Shimomura though, she seems to be the total opposite. In addition, some of those songs she worked on happen to use motifs from Koji Kondo. Are there other games that have taken songs from any other SE game? To my immediate knowledge (because I don't have a freaking clue), I can't think of any of their other IPs that have done cross-overs. Except Fortune Street, but as you said, "DLC standard", not "base game standard", cuz there's quite a lot of DQ assets in Fortune Street. I'd say it's like 45% DQ and 55% Mario.

If this is a rule of "SE only gives 2 songs, of their own IPs, and no more" in a DLC pack, Nintendo could easily release another update alongside the DLC pack, to anyone who owns FP2/Geno's DLC pack, to get extra songs. After all, it's the composer who owns the tracks, yes? Even if SE says no, Shimomura can still say yes, and I'm assuming she has the total authority on the songs, just like Nintendo has total authority on DLC picks even though I'm sure Sakurai is still there nudging a few names.

I don't really play them but Noctis had a crossover with Tekken, and only brought in 2 songs for his stage. Yoko Shimomura was the composer for FF15 music. 2B from Nier Automata crossed with Soul Calibur 6 and only brought in 1 music track. I don't know what the normal amount of music for stages in those games actually is, but it's safe to say that Square prefers to keep the amount of crossover music low.

That said, I would still expect at least 6-7 tracks accompanying Geno if he gets in. Nintendo knows that putting Geno in with 1-2 tracks would just upset a ton of people because of the value, so they'll either negotiate with Square to increase the amount of SMRPG music, or just put in more 1st party music to get within a acceptable range.

 

[Polarthief]

Yoko Shimomura was the composer for FF15 music--- but it's safe to say that Square prefers to keep the amount of crossover music low.

Well that's disappointing as hell if Square still owns the music themselves. That throws the entire argument of "it's the composers' faults" out the window.

That said, I would still expect at least 6-7 tracks accompanying Geno if he gets in. Nintendo knows that putting Geno in with 1-2 tracks would just upset a ton of people because of the value, so they'll either negotiate with Square to increase the amount of SMRPG music, or just put in more 1st party music to get within a acceptable range.

The latter is still disappointing though. Better than just getting the 2 tracks we know would get in, but still very disappointing. It would be sweet if they try to get more though, but I doubt they'll push the issue that hard.

 

[AugustusB]

I have been viewing from the shadows for a while. Haven't been apart of the speculation scene for sometime. Took a rather hard hit from CORVID (Worked as a waiter in fine dining and no one wanted to pick up a fancy steak) so I have been feeling rather down. Thankfully, Persona 5 Royal and Final Fantasy 7 Remake has been keeping me busy.

Anyhow, Hope everyone is doing great. FRICKING MARIO X ULTRAMAN!?! Be still my beating heart!

EDIT: To contribute to the 2-3 1st party characters. ARMS is definitely one of them. I would have to agree with Fatman and say Lolo very well could be a fighter to celebrate HAL's 40th anniversary. And if a 3rd first party...its hard to say. It could very well be a promotion of some kind. Its a toss between Waluigi, Isaac and Rex/Pyra.

 

[Vector Victor]

I could see Nintendo making Geno's pass package more of Mario RPGs bundle rather than just THE Mario RPG. So, two songs from SMRPG, two from Paper Mario, 2 from TTYD, Superstar Saga, etc. Same with spirits on his board, where some are SMRPG but also the Paper series and M&L series not in base game.

This would make the RPGs a subsection of the Mario series, just like what they did with the Mario Kart series. And Geno's Fighter Spirit would just be his sprite.



And Mallow's sprite for his.

 

[Icewolff92]

Oh, I totally agree. In fact, I found the orchestral music of DQ11 to be hilariously pretentious, but it would have at least made Hero's stage tolerable.

Do you know what¨s ironic? They don¨t allow Nintendo to have the orchestral versions in their DLC pack, but they allow them to use the orchestral in the animated Dragon Quest Your Story, which is a movie that ends up flop over in Japan (no I¨m not joking) PS.... as someone that has seen and reviewed it, don¨t watch it... Its not good

 

[OffBi]

More weird Mario announcements incoming

MARIO X ULTRAMAN

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...bowser_get_reimagined_as_tokusatsu_characters

This definitely has something to do with the Mario anniversary

 

[Fatmanonice]

Square Enix is different from a vast majority of video game companies because they allow their composers to liscense their own music so getting the rights to them is more complicated. I don't know how this will play out for Geno because while Yoko Shimomura is pretty chill with her own music, I don't know how much say Square itself has in it. They're pretty strict about not allowing remixes in games unless they're specifically made or approved by the original composer so that may be a factor too. Despite this, I'm not totally sure how it works given SMRPG isn't 100% owned by Square.

 

[pinshadow]

Well, now with this LOL leak I now have 5 characters I actively don't want in the game. Atleast it's probably not real. Don't personally like League, don't like MOBA's in general, has quite literally 0 Nintendo relevance, Tencent is Tencent, and it represents almost everything I PERSONALLY dislike about modern, particularly online, gaming. Thrilling.


Back on topic with the puppet, more specifically what people were saying yesterday about him being an anomaly. Geno isn't just weird because he happens to be a popular one-shot supporting-character. It's a little jarring but it's not like other characters don't exist like him in the Nintendo/Smash fandom. Pretty much every Zelda character people want that isn't part of the main trio falls under this, Skull Kid, Midna, and even Sheik all fall under more or less the same catagory. The best comparison in my eyes though is Adeline, a popular character driven by a big fanbase who got completely ignored for 18 years for no real reason other than the devs not really knowing what to do with her.

The main difference between them and Geno isn't just that those character have managed to comeback, but then general circumstances surrounding them. Pretty much every major Zelda character (except the Capcom stuff, who knows what the hell is up with those rights and whether they just didn't do it because of how much Koei hates Capcom) shows up as playable in Hyrule Warriors, and the Kirby team is probably Nintendo's best in terms of both acknowledging the series history not just through blatant fan-service but actually BUILDING on whats already there. Star Allies was a concentrated effort to pay tribute to pretty much every game in the franchise (even if it was obviously rushed and still feels like a 3DS game turned Switch title after a year of updates).

Mario though? That's more like this.

Yes, Geno is co-owned by Square, and while I'm sure that would be an issue regardless, Nintendo just seems to have zero interest in using anything in the Mario RPG's for, well, really anything. They might as well all be owned by a different company like SMRPG given how Nintendo acts like they don't exist. I've gone over this before but Nintendo barely acts like Luigi's Mansion and Donkey Kong Country are attatched to Mario, hell even stuff like the Mario Land games and Sunshine are inconsistent on whether Nintendo recognizes they exist. I'm still shocked they chose to make Rosalina more or less a permanent cast member given their track record. Even if Nintendo owned Super Mario RPG, I'm still 99% sure we'd be in more or less the same situation we are in now. And Square sure as hell wants nothing to really do with it, even if getting one remix in Fortune Street is still more awknowledgment than this game has gotten from Nintendo sans Smash Bros and the Geno puppet, which was in 2003 and got removed in the remake.

So Nintendo wants nothing to do with Mario RPG, and the entire franchise as a whole really, including making ACTUAL new games (and don't bring up the leak, that ain't official yet and I don't trust them for a second after Color Splash), and Square doesn't care either, so where does that leave us? Well, the one place that, at the very least, seems to realize that, yep! That game sure did happen! Smash Bros. is honestly the only place I can ever see Geno, or anything from SMRPG, or anything from the franchise at this point really, getting recognized as something that happened, something that people love, something that people want back. We've somehow reached the point where I think it's more likely for Nintendo to go "Oh, Smash fans REALLY want Geno, let's put him in the game", than for them to go "OH, people love the Mario RPG's and want us to make more of them and use these characters". That's what stuff like Color Splash has taught me.

 

[Droodle]

I think that the LoL character leak is fake (although I wouldn't be surprised if we end up getting some representation). It's way to easy to guess pretty much everything except for the LoL character itself. I know that I've been thinking that we'd be getting a Trials of Mana spirit event way back since February (I created a prediction list where I may have put in on there; or I may have forgot about it), and that Hollow Knight is a likely Mii costume since Sans got revealed. Regardless here are some more decently like 3rd party spirit events for the future: Guilty Gear/Blazblue, Trails of Cold Steel, Ace Attorney, Bravely Default 2, Disgaea, Undertale, Ys, Hollow Knight Silksong, Tales of, and the list goes on. Some of these may end up as characters instead, but I believe that by the time Ultimate is over, around 70% of these will be spirits at the very least.

Also if we are getting a "Western" character. I'm changing my prediction from Crash Bandicoot to Rayman, I feel as though Rayman has gotten a ton of evidence pushing for him in the last week or so (and I am a bit biased considering I voted for him in Smash 4). I feel as though Crash hasn't gotten a ton of backing other then some vague insider ramblings which tend to circle around every non deconfirmed "popular character". Besides, Nintendo's relationship with Ubisoft is extremely good for a western dev and definitely better then Activision Blizzard.

So here are my predictions for the next Fighter's Pass currently:

6. Either Springman or Min-Min: I don't feel like I need to explain this at all.

7. Rayman: Again, if I have to pick 1 more "western" character currently, in terms of evidence it would have to be Rayman. I think he fits nicely in as a E3 reveal too, even if he's not big in Japan. He has a huge history with Nintendo, and is decently iconic outside of Japan, while having some pretty strong fan-demand. I think Ubisoft has even stated that they want Rayman in Smash. Now there's solid evidence that Ubisoft is trying to remove references of "they hope that Rayman is in FP2". I still think it's weird that both Assassin's Creed and Rabbids got a Mii Costume, while Rayman who was in Smash as a trophy since Smash 4 has yet to even get a simple Mii Costume.

8. Geno: Again, tons of evidence supporting him currently, even if I don't believe most of it. That said, I don't discount the evidence because of that. I give him up till FP 8 to really show up, but then my confidence in him drops of a cliff (but even then he's still technically possible).

9. Rex and Pyra: Again, they make a ton of sense as they missed the deadline like the ARMS rep. Monolith-soft is also becoming more and more important to Nintendo with Xenoblade being a pretty successful series, not to mention their supportive role in many of Nintendo's BIG hitters like Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing.

10. Namco Rep: I still feel fairly confident in either a Tales or Tekken rep showing up. I would be shocked if FP 2 contained 0 Namco reps. They're the developers, they should at least get something.

11. Insert character here: It's hard to predict anything for 11. I think they'll be controversial, but I cannot say anything else.

 

[Deleted member]

Square Enix is different from a vast majority of video game companies because they allow their composers to liscense their own music so getting the rights to them is more complicated. I don't know how this will play out for Geno because while Yoko Shimomura is pretty chill with her own music, I don't know how much say Square itself has in it. They're pretty strict about not allowing remixes in games unless they're specifically made or approved by the original composer so that may be a factor too. Despite this, I'm not totally sure how it works given SMRPG isn't 100% owned by Square.

This is probably two decades of discourse about the game between Square and Nintendo about this damn game summed up in one post. The truth is gonna come out here pretty soon that both of them have almost no idea what either one of them owns.

Since Shimomura has remixed tracks from Mario RPG for her own concerts, though, I'm assuming that's a pretty big indication in favor of the idea that we could get new remixes.

 

[axel_]

If this was that important to Nintendo, where's Minecraft, PUBG/Fortnite, and World of Warcraft then?

Right over here!

 

[Vector Victor]

Well, now with this LOL leak I now have 5 characters I actively don't want in the game. Atleast it's probably not real. Don't personally like League, don't like MOBA's in general, has quite literally 0 Nintendo relevance, Tencent is Tencent, and it represents almost everything I PERSONALLY dislike about modern, particularly online, gaming. Thrilling.


Back on topic with the puppet, more specifically what people were saying yesterday about him being an anomaly. Geno isn't just weird because he happens to be a popular one-shot supporting-character. It's a little jarring but it's not like other characters don't exist like him in the Nintendo/Smash fandom. Pretty much every Zelda character people want that isn't part of the main trio falls under this, Skull Kid, Midna, and even Sheik all fall under more or less the same catagory. The best comparison in my eyes though is Adeline, a popular character driven by a big fanbase who got completely ignored for 18 years for no real reason other than the devs not really knowing what to do with her.

The main difference between them and Geno isn't just that those character have managed to comeback, but then general circumstances surrounding them. Pretty much every major Zelda character (except the Capcom stuff, who knows what the hell is up with those rights and whether they just didn't do it because of how much Koei hates Capcom) shows up as playable in Hyrule Warriors, and the Kirby team is probably Nintendo's best in terms of both acknowledging the series history not just through blatant fan-service but actually BUILDING on whats already there. Star Allies was a concentrated effort to pay tribute to pretty much every game in the franchise (even if it was obviously rushed and still feels like a 3DS game turned Switch title after a year of updates).

Mario though? That's more like this.
View attachment 269989

Yes, Geno is co-owned by Square, and while I'm sure that would be an issue regardless, Nintendo just seems to have zero interest in using anything in the Mario RPG's for, well, really anything. They might as well all be owned by a different company like SMRPG given how Nintendo acts like they don't exist. I've gone over this before but Nintendo barely acts like Luigi's Mansion and Donkey Kong Country are attatched to Mario, hell even stuff like the Mario Land games and Sunshine are inconsistent on whether Nintendo recognizes they exist. I'm still shocked they chose to make Rosalina more or less a permanent cast member given their track record. Even if Nintendo owned Super Mario RPG, I'm still 99% sure we'd be in more or less the same situation we are in now. And Square sure as hell wants nothing to really do with it, even if getting one remix in Fortune Street is still more awknowledgment than this game has gotten from Nintendo sans Smash Bros and the Geno puppet, which was in 2003 and got removed in the remake.

So Nintendo wants nothing to do with Mario RPG, and the entire franchise as a whole really, including making ACTUAL new games (and don't bring up the leak, that ain't official yet and I don't trust them for a second after Color Splash), and Square doesn't care either, so where does that leave us? Well, the one place that, at the very least, seems to realize that, yep! That game sure did happen! Smash Bros. is honestly the only place I can ever see Geno, or anything from SMRPG, or anything from the franchise at this point really, getting recognized as something that happened, something that people love, something that people want back. We've somehow reached the point where I think it's more likely for Nintendo to go "Oh, Smash fans REALLY want Geno, let's put him in the game", than for them to go "OH, people love the Mario RPG's and want us to make more of them and use these characters". That's what stuff like Color Splash has taught me.

I doubt that Nintendo having that mentality of ignoring their Mario characters is true. Why, if that was true, where they create characters for various games and spin-offs that become fan favorites but Nintendo just throws them in a discard bin for decades, then that would mean that Nintendo would just fill their sports and kart games with recolor baby gem mook characters, and that would never happen.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

It is so weird seeing LoL talk in relation to Smash. I guess it shouldn't be weird considering how huge League and it's genre in general is. I agree it would be quite the challenge to pick one character though and I can't see a way to involve more than one in a fluid way that would feel right on both ends. The popular and powerful characters tended to fluctuate significantly back when I played but I could see someone like Ahri for popularity or Ryze for longevity and appearing in a lot of artwork both would also have fun movesets that would translate decently to Smash imo. No Morgana since Smash is for good boys and girls. I can't say I really want them in Smash but I guess I would accept it and probably enjoy the character. Annie would be my favorite if only because destroying people as an obnoxious little girl and being able to summon giant flaming stuffed bears would be really fun and I would like to see characters who can summon a familiar or something like that because I think it'd be a fun mechanic so long as it's not as boring as Luma. Also LoL would bring an excellent selection of palette swaps due to how many quality skins it has also the taunts are guaranteed to be like 100x greater than most taunts currently in Smash so there's that? There's still so many characters I would rather see though.

 

[Polarthief]

Well, now with this LOL leak I now have 5 characters I actively don't want in the game. Atleast it's probably not real. Don't personally like League, don't like MOBA's in general, has quite literally 0 Nintendo relevance, Tencent is Tencent, and it represents almost everything I PERSONALLY dislike about modern, particularly online, gaming. Thrilling.

TBH I don't want League in Smash, but a character from it I wouldn't really mind. Kind of the opposite mindset I have for characters like MC and Sora, heh. Some of those characters are actually really neat.

Pretty much every Zelda character people want that isn't part of the main trio falls under this, Skull Kid, Midna, and even Sheik all fall under more or less the same catagory. The best comparison in my eyes though is Adeline, a popular character driven by a big fanbase who got completely ignored for 18 years for no real reason other than the devs not really knowing what to do with her.

The main difference between them and Geno isn't just that those character have managed to comeback, but then general circumstances surrounding them. Pretty much every major Zelda character (except the Capcom stuff, who knows what the hell is up with those rights and whether they just didn't do it because of how much Koei hates Capcom) shows up as playable in Hyrule Warriors, and the Kirby team is probably Nintendo's best in terms of both acknowledging the series history not just through blatant fan-service but actually BUILDING on whats already there. Star Allies was a concentrated effort to pay tribute to pretty much every game in the franchise (even if it was obviously rushed and still feels like a 3DS game turned Switch title after a year of updates).

Also the fact that all those characters you named are first-party, and still existing within a first-party universe, while Geno is a third-party character existing within a first-party universe, you know, THE most important factor that makes him even weirder than he is.

Yes, Geno is co-owned by Square

Wait, what? This is the first I'm hearing of this. CO-owned???

So Nintendo wants nothing to do with Mario RPG, and the entire franchise as a whole really, including making ACTUAL new games (and don't bring up the leak, that ain't official yet and I don't trust them for a second after Color Splash)

M&L: Dream Team, with remakes of SSS and BIS, being released in 2013, 2017, and 2019, respectively. There's no way you could say they "don't care about Mario RPGs" with release dates like those. Sadly, AlphaDream went under in October because of their growing debt (and the remake of BIS not doing so well, despite the good scores). Perhaps pushing a 3DS title post-Switch wasn't the brightest idea.

PM: Paper Mario has always had a weird release schedule, having sequels come out roughly 3-5 years between each other; the latest one being Color Splash was in October of 2016, and yes, like Sticker Star before it, people have come out in obvious opposition to say that RPGs with practically no moves besides items, is an awful idea for an RPG for obvious reasons. People don't like it and it's not what made people love PM. The awful writing in Color Splash and Sticker Star now making tons of self-referential jokes about being paper/stickers/flat also got tiring when the title was just because that was the art style. The lack of badges and customization made the game boring. No partners except a stupid paint can or crown sticker also turned your only partner into an obnoxious nag like Navi instead of a cast of fun sidekicks.
Yeah, PM's in a rough spot, but it's nearly 4 years later and we're bound for another game that hopefully Nintendo has taken the criticisms and general failures of the last 2 games to heart. Just because we haven't gotten a game in nearly 4 years doesn't matter when even PM64 and TTYD had a 4 year gap between each other!

SMRPG: Obviously SMRPG tends to get swept under the rug because it's not Nintendo's game, despite having many first-party assets in it. The game itself is "owned" by Square, while the Mario (and other Nintendo assets like Link, Samus, and F-Zero/Star Fox vehicles) obviously owned by Nintendo. It's the very weird hybrid back on the SNES, so it's understandable that this game tends to fly under the radar.

TL;DR: You can't say they don't care about the franchise when we've literally gotten a game (remake) as recent at 2019, and PM has always had a 3-5 year gap between releases. If you don't count BIS's remake as a game, then Color Splash was still less than 4 years ago, which has been natural for PM's release cycle.

Smash Bros. is honestly the only place I can ever see Geno, or anything from SMRPG, or anything from the franchise at this point really

I agree with your first point, but ABSOLUTELY disagree with your second. Let's at least see if that rumor pans out before declaring the sky is falling/doom-and-gloom on the entire Mario RPG series. It's way too soon to declare that.

We've somehow reached the point where I think it's more likely for Nintendo to go "Oh, Smash fans REALLY want Geno, let's put him in the game", than for them to go "OH, people love the Mario RPG's and want us to make more of them and use these characters". That's what stuff like Color Splash has taught me.

You wanna know the problem? You have a dinosaur with WAY too much pull because of his past work. This dinosaur absolutely loves simplicity and "innovation". He always feels the need to "innovate" a game, even if the game absolutely doesn't need it. He asked the team behind Sticker Star, who were originally making a game just like TTYD, to change it completely, then complained about how absolutely boring it was because of his crappy innovation. If you still don't know who I'm talking about, it's Miyamoto himself. Yes, the man is a legend for his old works on the NES/SNES, and even N64 and Gamecube, but we're now living in 2020 and we absolutely don't need to force "innovation" where it doesn't belong. Paper Mario was one of the series that just absolutely suffered because of it. He ruined Sticker Star, then tried to stick with the same awful formula to see if it would work with Color Splash. It was "better", like how covering a dead skunk in confetti makes it look prettier, but it's still a skunk corpse, and as such, CS was still a big ol' turd.

Assuming Miyamoto isn't forcing his InNoVaTiOn on the next Paper Mario game, I see no reason how they wouldn't try to go back to the old system that people have been asking for and making tons of videos on. I do respect Miyamoto for the work he's done in the past, but the man has absolutely no connections to the modern day of gaming and really needs to just be consulted for advice, not having the power to completely trash development of what would have probably been a very fun Paper Mario game.

I just think it's way too soon to assume stuff like this. Yes, Color Splash shouldn't have happened and they should have learned sooner, but until we don't see another Mario RPG game for a few more years, or if they release a "Sticker Star 3", I feel like you're doomsaying just for the sake of doomsaying.

 

[MattX20]

Aside from Geno being my most wanted, I've supported Rayman and voted for him on the ballot along with Shantae in the past. He and Crash are by far the most likely Western reps that aren't indies or owned by Microsoft

 

[pinshadow]

TBH I don't want League in Smash, but a character from it I wouldn't really mind. Kind of the opposite mindset I have for characters like MC and Sora, heh. Some of those characters are actually really neat.



Also the fact that all those characters you named are first-party, and still existing within a first-party universe, while Geno is a third-party character existing within a first-party universe, you know, THE most important factor that makes him even weirder than he is.



Wait, what? This is the first I'm hearing of this. CO-owned???



M&L: Dream Team, with remakes of SSS and BIS, being released in 2013, 2017, and 2019, respectively. There's no way you could say they "don't care about Mario RPGs" with release dates like those. Sadly, AlphaDream went under in October because of their growing debt (and the remake of BIS not doing so well, despite the good scores). Perhaps pushing a 3DS title post-Switch wasn't the brightest idea.

PM: Paper Mario has always had a weird release schedule, having sequels come out roughly 3-5 years between each other; the latest one being Color Splash was in October of 2016, and yes, like Sticker Star before it, people have come out in obvious opposition to say that RPGs with practically no moves besides items, is an awful idea for an RPG for obvious reasons. People don't like it and it's not what made people love PM. The awful writing in Color Splash and Sticker Star now making tons of self-referential jokes about being paper/stickers/flat also got tiring when the title was just because that was the art style. The lack of badges and customization made the game boring. No partners except a stupid paint can or crown sticker also turned your only partner into an obnoxious nag like Navi instead of a cast of fun sidekicks.
Yeah, PM's in a rough spot, but it's nearly 4 years later and we're bound for another game that hopefully Nintendo has taken the criticisms and general failures of the last 2 games to heart. Just because we haven't gotten a game in nearly 4 years doesn't matter when even PM64 and TTYD had a 4 year gap between each other!

SMRPG: Obviously SMRPG tends to get swept under the rug because it's not Nintendo's game, despite having many first-party assets in it. The game itself is "owned" by Square, while the Mario (and other Nintendo assets like Link, Samus, and F-Zero/Star Fox vehicles) obviously owned by Nintendo. It's the very weird hybrid back on the SNES, so it's understandable that this game tends to fly under the radar.

TL;DR: You can't say they don't care about the franchise when we've literally gotten a game (remake) as recent at 2019, and PM has always had a 3-5 year gap between releases. If you don't count BIS's remake as a game, then Color Splash was still less than 4 years ago, which has been natural for PM's release cycle.



I agree with your first point, but ABSOLUTELY disagree with your second. Let's at least see if that rumor pans out before declaring the sky is falling/doom-and-gloom on the entire Mario RPG series. It's way too soon to declare that.



You wanna know the problem? You have a dinosaur with WAY too much pull because of his past work. This dinosaur absolutely loves simplicity and "innovation". He always feels the need to "innovate" a game, even if the game absolutely doesn't need it. He asked the team behind Sticker Star, who were originally making a game just like TTYD, to change it completely, then complained about how absolutely boring it was because of his crappy innovation. If you still don't know who I'm talking about, it's Miyamoto himself. Yes, the man is a legend for his old works on the NES/SNES, and even N64 and Gamecube, but we're now living in 2020 and we absolutely don't need to force "innovation" where it doesn't belong. Paper Mario was one of the series that just absolutely suffered because of it. He ruined Sticker Star, then tried to stick with the same awful formula to see if it would work with Color Splash. It was "better", like how covering a dead skunk in confetti makes it look prettier, but it's still a skunk corpse, and as such, CS was still a big ol' turd.

Assuming Miyamoto isn't forcing his InNoVaTiOn on the next Paper Mario game, I see no reason how they wouldn't try to go back to the old system that people have been asking for and making tons of videos on. I do respect Miyamoto for the work he's done in the past, but the man has absolutely no connections to the modern day of gaming and really needs to just be consulted for advice, not having the power to completely trash development of what would have probably been a very fun Paper Mario game.

I just think it's way too soon to assume stuff like this. Yes, Color Splash shouldn't have happened and they should have learned sooner, but until we don't see another Mario RPG game for a few more years, or if they release a "Sticker Star 3", I feel like you're doomsaying just for the sake of doomsaying.

I'm pretty sure SMRPG is co-owned? As in Square can't do anything with it or it's characters without Nintendo's permission, because it's still a Mario game. Maybe I'm wrong, it doesn't really matter. As for the Mario and Luigi stuff I was more talking in terms of getting acknowledged OUTSIDE of the RPG's. Obviously Alphadream was still making games (even though I personally think Dream Team isn't that good, Paper Jam is better mechanically but doing a crossover just for the sake of having 2 of each character and ignoring much of what makes both series unique personality wise is a dumb idea, and the remakes are neat but don't really need to exist.) so maybe I was a bit doom-posty there but they're gone now anyway so the franchise is most likely dead in my eyes, atleast for now.

Paper Mario though? Look, Miyamoto did mess up Sticker Star with his asinine "NO STORY IN MARIO" and "TOO SIMILAR TO TTYD" (EVEN THOUGH HE SAID THIS WHILE WORKING ON TWO NSMB GAMES) but Tanabe was still the one who pushed the "Paper" idea and the Sticker System in general was based on the system from Tingle's Rosey Rupeeland, another game where progression is through money and money alone. Point is, Sticker Star was a mess, and it wasn't just driven into the ground by one person. The worst part of this though, and the part that stings, is that they learned N O T H I N G. Seriously, they got their second chance. I spent 3 years online with nothing but people trashing on Sticker Star for being the mediocre pile of garbage it is, only for everyone to get slapped in the face with STICKER STAR 2 : SLIGHTLY LESS MEDIOCRE and learning they were so confident in Sticker Star being a great game that they started work on it as soon as they finished Sticker Star. How do you look at that development team and say "Oh, but they'll get it right the THIRD time!" I just can't be confident in them making a good Paper Mario game.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand here we go again with the advertising.

The leader of the Phantom Thieves of Hearts is looking cool in #SmashBrosUltimate! Have you got some time on the battlefield with Joker?

Purchase the Fighters Pass to play as Joker & pre-purchase Fighters Pass Vol. 2 for more DLC fighters in the future: https://t.co/38v6Nk1sCp pic.twitter.com/1JTISzn7Zd

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 23, 2020

Highly doubt it means anything but still notable to point out.

 

[Firox]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand here we go again with the advertising.

The leader of the Phantom Thieves of Hearts is looking cool in #SmashBrosUltimate! Have you got some time on the battlefield with Joker?

Purchase the Fighters Pass to play as Joker & pre-purchase Fighters Pass Vol. 2 for more DLC fighters in the future: https://t.co/38v6Nk1sCp pic.twitter.com/1JTISzn7Zd

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 23, 2020

Highly doubt it means anything but still notable to point out.

Nintendo: "You know what else is cool?! Fighter pass #2! Play as......well....find out hopefully sometime in June! Send us your money now!"

 

[Icewolff92]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand here we go again with the advertising.

The leader of the Phantom Thieves of Hearts is looking cool in #SmashBrosUltimate! Have you got some time on the battlefield with Joker?

Purchase the Fighters Pass to play as Joker & pre-purchase Fighters Pass Vol. 2 for more DLC fighters in the future: https://t.co/38v6Nk1sCp pic.twitter.com/1JTISzn7Zd

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 23, 2020

Highly doubt it means anything but still notable to point out.

I highly doubt they are revealing fighter 7 before we don¨t even know who the Arms character is. Outside of the double reveal in E3 with Hero and Banjo, they never revealed those two before Joker reveal, or Terry before Banjo¨s reveal, etc. There is no real reason for them to reveal 7 yet. Especially with the COVID 19 and the set end date

 

[Polarthief]

As for the Mario and Luigi stuff I was more talking in terms of getting acknowledged OUTSIDE of the RPG's.

Gotcha, fair enough.

even though I personally think Dream Team isn't that good

You're also not alone in that. It's the only M&L I couldn't bring myself to finish (same with SS being the only PM I couldn't finish either, besides CS which I didn't even buy because of how garbage it looks to play). FTR: I also didn't get Paper Jam because after being frustrated with SS and DT, why would I go for a game that mashes two of my favorite-now-ruined franchises? Sticker Star was what broke the camel's back for me in being burned out on crap games; hell it might even be the turning point when I became much more cynical because of how dreadfully awful it is.

so maybe I was a bit doom-posty there but they're gone now anyway so the franchise is most likely dead in my eyes, atleast for now.

Which is also fair, but you were doomsaying the entirety of Mario RPGs when PM is still a possibility. Wait until at least June before making a post like that.
That said, Nintendo or another subsidiary could take over M&L.

Paper Mario though? Look, Miyamoto did mess up Sticker Star with his asinine "NO STORY IN MARIO" and "TOO SIMILAR TO TTYD" (EVEN THOUGH HE SAID THIS WHILE WORKING ON TWO NSMB GAMES) but Tanabe was still the one who pushed the "Paper" idea and the Sticker System in general was based on the system from Tingle's Rosey Rupeeland, another game where progression is through money and money alone. Point is, Sticker Star was a mess, and it wasn't just driven into the ground by one person.

I know others also messed it up, but Miyamoto still has a lot of pull and, quite frankly, he shouldn't, especially not for spin-offs that aren't just his usual MO of simple stuff. An RPG is a significantly more complex beast than a platformer. Sure the latter generally requires more skill to play as precision timing your jumps and everything is the entirety of the game, whereas an RPG just requires some decent strategy, but it's the total opposite when it comes to development when you need to consider everything that goes into a game.

The worst part of this though, and the part that stings, is that they learned N O T H I N G. Seriously, they got their second chance. I spent 3 years online with nothing but people trashing on Sticker Star for being the mediocre pile of garbage it is, only for everyone to get slapped in the face with STICKER STAR 2 : SLIGHTLY LESS MEDIOCRE and learning they were so confident in Sticker Star being a great game that they started work on it as soon as they finished Sticker Star. How do you look at that development team and say "Oh, but they'll get it right the THIRD time!" I just can't be confident in them making a good Paper Mario game.

I'm not saying for sure they will, but if they started development on CS right away after SS, chances are they were gonna be stubborn from the get-go. By the time they finished CS (or even before it), there's no way they couldn't have seen the backlash and maybe took a step back to realize it's an awful system for an RPG. If they pull it again, then yeah, Paper Mario is for sure doomed and I'll gladly buy you a beer as you called it right away, but idk, there's some piece of me that just wants to be optimistic for once, maybe because of the rumor, that we could finally get PM back on track to not being absolute garbage. Messing up once is one thing, messing up a second time could be because they didn't hear enough backlash soon enough. Messing up a third time is absolutely on them though and I will curse the team responsible for all of eternity.

Nintendo: "You know what else is cool?! Fighter pass #2! Play as......well....find out hopefully sometime in June! Send us your money now!"

"BUY BUY BUY! BUY FP1 TO PLAY JOKER (and 4 others but who gives a crap), BUY FP2 TO PLAY AS NO ONE YET, WAIT TIL JUNE TO FIND OUT AT LEAST ONE CHARACTER, **** YOU! :D"

I wish they'd stop advertising literally wasting $30 right now. (yes I already bought FP2, but I just don't want them to advertise it this hard when they have nothing to show for it, shut up and stop judging me!)

 

[Deleted member]

*Yawn* Is Geno playable yet?

 

[Polarthief]

*Yawn* Is Geno playable yet?

I'll answer this by quoting Blizzard's most famous, trademarked (/s), answer: Soon™.

 

[MattX20]

I highly doubt they are revealing fighter 7 before we don¨t even know who the Arms character is. Outside of the double reveal in E3 with Hero and Banjo, they never revealed those two before Joker reveal, or Terry before Banjo¨s reveal, etc. There is no real reason for them to reveal 7 yet. Especially with the COVID 19 and the set end date

We're likely to see Fighter 7 alongside Fighter 6. After all, even if the character isn't released in June like 6 is, that doesn't mean they can't preview it. Banjo was revealed, and was confirmed for the fall, and I'm willing to be they'll follow a similar release schedule. The only fighters I can realistically see affected are 9, 10, and 11.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand here we go again with the advertising.

The leader of the Phantom Thieves of Hearts is looking cool in #SmashBrosUltimate! Have you got some time on the battlefield with Joker?

Purchase the Fighters Pass to play as Joker & pre-purchase Fighters Pass Vol. 2 for more DLC fighters in the future: https://t.co/38v6Nk1sCp pic.twitter.com/1JTISzn7Zd

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 23, 2020

Highly doubt it means anything but still notable to point out.

They did this leading up to 6's announcement so it may be another countdown because, coincidentally, we're roughly 5 1/2 weeks from June now. Because E3 is cancelled this year, there's no hard rule that the Nintendo presentation absolutely has to be on the 9th so we could be getting as early as the 2nd-4th.

 

[PatPrime]

With this Lol stuff, I looked it up to check what company made it. In terms of Western companies, I don't think Riot Games has much of a relationship to Nintendo compared to Microsoft, Ubisoft, or even Activision, unless I'm wrong on this. Also, getting 3 Youtube ads for Lol after searching it on Google one time is incredibly aggravating.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If this was that important to Nintendo, where's Minecraft, PUBG/Fortnite, and World of Warcraft then?

Well, they’ve shown they care about Minecraft and Fortnite, at least.

 

[Let Geno Smash]

They did this leading up to 6's announcement so it may be another countdown because, coincidentally, we're roughly 5 1/2 weeks from June now. Because E3 is cancelled this year, there's no hard rule that the Nintendo presentation absolutely has to be on the 9th so we could be getting as early as the 2nd-4th.

But i have heard some japanese companies are having issues with his presentations, this affect the direct? It could be delayed?

 

[Icewolff92]

We're likely to see Fighter 7 alongside Fighter 6. After all, even if the character isn't released in June like 6 is, that doesn't mean they can't preview it. Banjo was revealed, and was confirmed for the fall, and I'm willing to be they'll follow a similar release schedule. The only fighters I can realistically see affected are 9, 10, and 11.

Pretty much. All I¨m saying is that I don¨t see the reasoning to announce that we are getting an arms character, for then to later reveal the second character (whoever that is) without not even giving us the name of who the first is. It¨s sort of like, they announce Joker with only the CGI trailer, for then in March reveal Hero without giving us any information on when Joker is out or how he plays for that matter.

 

[Nicnac]

Well, they’ve shown they care about Minecraft and Fortnite, at least.

I'm pretty sure he meant in Smash. If modern popularity/legacy was literally everything we would have had Crash in base, Doomguy at some point, maybe Dante in Brawl, Fortnite in base, Minecraft in 4/Ultimate, or so many more.

I think what Polarthief means is that as a third party you can't expect to get into Smash off of being a big name alone- some significance to Nintendo is pretty much required. League has nothing to do with Nintendo, same as PUBG or Warcraft. Minecraft and Fortnite both have ports but again, that doesn't guarantee an inclusion.

 

[Firox]

"BUY BUY BUY! BUY FP1 TO PLAY JOKER (and 4 others but who gives a crap), BUY FP2 TO PLAY AS NO ONE YET, WAIT TIL JUNE TO FIND OUT AT LEAST ONE CHARACTER, **** YOU! :D"

This reminded me of South Park's spoof alcohol commercial so I couldn't help but lol. Seriously, if you haven't seen it, look it up on Youtube and imagine the word "BUY" everywhere the commercial says "DRINK".

 

[Polarthief]

This reminded me of South Park's spoof alcohol commercial so I couldn't help but lol. Seriously, if you haven't seen it, look it up on Youtube and imagine the word "BUY" everywhere the commercial says "DRINK".

Oh my god yes, I wasn't even thinking of that but it fits perfectly.
(PS: Long-time SP fan here; have seen every episode, many of them numerous times. )