Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[mynameisBlade]

Just throwing my wish list up. I couldn't decide between Lara Croft or Sora. I feel like Sora would make it in before her though. Geno will lead the way as we go to E3 where two big character bombs being Scorpion and Crash Bandicoot drop. Toward the end of the year we get a tease of something in Smash to do with Square. Sora revealed at the VGA's.

Starting up 2021 we get many VERY HARD TO FIGURE OUT hints from Sakurai himself about our next fighter. They end up pointing to Agumon (who I would love). Then E3 2021 will be Master Chief to really blow minds, finish the pass, and finish the fight one last time.

I would really REALLY love to see Digimon and Pokemon in the same game..!

 

[MisterMike]

Alright, for no particular reason, I am going to present:
Delay Theory™
The Theory That Doesn't Really Tell Us Much If It's Correct, And Is Almost Entirely Speculation!

As a few people have already said or thought, there are several reasons to believe that Byleth was not meant to be fighter 5 of the first fighter pass. Here's some of the most important facts to back up this claim:

1. Byleth's moveset, while more unique than most Fire Emblem reps, doesn't seem as fleshed-out as it could be. The concept of a "weapons master" could go WAY farther than just this, and Sakurai is better than this at making incredibly unique movesets. (Not that it's terrible, while I'm not a fan of it it's certainly pretty cool, especially Up-B and Neutral-B) Compared to the rest of the fighter pass, Byleth's moveset feels a lot less unique and different. Joker practically has 2 movesets (with and without Arsene), Hero has like 40 special moves and critical hits and an MP system, Banjo has three special moves that are unlike anything we've seen before, and Terry managed to be even more impressive than Ryu/Ken already were. Byleth, in comparison, feels lackluster. At least to me, it screams that it was supposed to be more, but they didn't have time.
2. The first fighter pass was bundled with a Rex mii costume, and was specifically mentioned to be chosen because he was "too late" to get into the base roster of Smash. Why then, in that very same bundle, is a character from a game released AFTER Xenoblade 2 made fully playable? Considering the timeline of deciding the fighter pass characters and the Rex costume, it feels wrong. Had Byleth come out in the second fighter pass, even as the first one in that pass, nobody would have bat an eye at the Rex confusion.
3. The characters in the background of the Fire Emblem stage are considerably less polished than you would expect them to be- and the reason why, is that they're apparently directly ripped from FE3H. This is a pretty huge contrast to Joker/Hero/Banjo/Terry, who all have cameo characters in their stages, and all of those cameo characters' models were made specifically for smash, likely from scratch. (or at least polished from other games)
4. Several insiders, including the Two Who Shall Not Be Named, seemed to think we'd get a Smash reveal at TGA until the very last minute, and even then thought we'd get a reveal in December. Sure, insiders are wrong all the time, but it seems a bit odd.
5. While not related to Smash necessarily, the SNES controllers (and potentially a direct) were delayed by a month- maybe because of Smash? Since the SNES controllers are almost certainly going to be fully revealed along with more SNES games on Switch, maybe they wanted to show Geno and SMRPG at the same time? There's also Animal Crossing's release, which they may have wanted to keep in the same direct as a Smash character?
6. The final, and most subjective reason... Byleth feels out of place in the first Fighter Pass. We have 4 3rd party characters from different companies, all completely new series to Smash... and then Byleth, the 8th Fire Emblem character in Smash. It'd make a lot more sense if, say, fighter #5 was meant to be 3rd party, and the SECOND fighter pass was meant to be almost entirely first party. (or at least have a few first parties rather than just one.)

All of that evidence might sound well and good, but it means nothing unless there's a good reason for them to swap the order of releases. Arguably, there are a few reasons that could work, but none of them are exactly rock solid.

• Sakurai saw the Cacomallow leak, and had to change plans because of it. This might seem like a "Nintendo would never do that over a leak," and while there isn't exactly a HUGE precedent for it, there is the "brave" codename being scrubbed from the files, as well as the WoL character slots being obscured and added onto. Obviously, changing some code to hide things like this is a lot less effort than swapping character order, but they have done something like this before.
  • The reason this potentially makes sense is, say Doom Guy was meant to be Fighter #5, Byleth was meant to be #6, and Geno was meant to be #7. If they announced Doom Guy in December, showed his mii costumes shortly after, and those costumes confirmed 1/2 of the Cacomallow leak... we'd be waiting like 6 months before the official reveal of Geno, while knowing with 100% certainty that he was coming. That'd all but kill the hype and speculation for a lot of people. They swapped Byleth with Doomguy to reveal Doom later when they could tease Geno at the same time.
• Something went wrong with fighter #5, and they had to release SOMEBODY before the end of february- so they decided to delay #5 and expedite #6, so they'd have a bit more time to finish or work out bugs, or a bit more time to solve some copyright problems or something. This one is possible, but I don't see it as very likely due to all the unknowns. What could possibly cause them to delay a character that they'd already negotiated for?
• The Smash characters were swapped around for the same reason the SNES controllers were swapped around- If Geno was meant to be revealed for Smash alongside SMRPG on Switch, then maybe the delays with the SNES controllers caused Geno to go from #5 to #6? This one obviously assumes Geno was meant to be #5, which we don't have a lot of reason to believe thanks to Hero, but is possible.

What does this mean? idk you got me i just felt like typing this it was fun

I think the biggest thing about the Byleth reveal that gets me wondering is this: There was so much build-up to the character reveal in the trailer that it really feels like it was supposed to be for a normal Direct rather than a presentation, kind of like Joker's trailer where we had no idea it was for Smash until the envelope was shown.

That said, after a bit of thought, I actually don't think that Byleth was swapped out to be FP5. I think that they made the trailer with the intention to reveal FP5 during the first Direct of the year, but since Sakurai had a deadline of February 2020 to release all five Fighter Pass characters and the first Direct of the year sometimes happens in March, he elected to not take the risk of missing that deadline and just did the presentation as soon as he could, which was by the end of January 2020. It would go some way to explain the very generous deadline he's set for himself with Vol.2: Daddy Sakurai doesn't want to get sued!

 

[MattX20]

Here's a thought that I'm amazed no one has brought up. While Fatmanonice and others are saying Geno would most likely be an E3 reveal, people are forgetting a key point: Geno's not part of Square's biggest IPs. Remember that Cloud wasn't revealed at E3 2015 despite being from Square's most iconic series, and only the DQ heroes were at E3. While Geno certainly is one of the last remaining major fan requests left that goes back to the Melee era, Geno has just as good a chance of being a general direct reveal given that most tend to agree that a returning company most likely will be Fighter #6, and one can easily make the same arguement that Crash could be #6 if only to sell the second Fighter Pass after Byleth's at best very lukewarm reception.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Geno is one of the last remaining major fan requests left that goes back to the Melee era.

You've got that right! The prophecy of "The Big 3" must come to pass. (the 2nd Fighter PASS to be exact)

 

[Polarthief]

"K. Rool, Ridley, and Geno. AND WE ALREADY GOT ONE TWO OF THEM!" -TerminalMontage

 

[AceAttorney9000]

View attachment 260528

You've got that right! The prophecy of "The Big 3" must come to pass. (the 2nd Fighter PASS to be exact)

The Triforce of Size.
The Triforce of Relevancy.
Now all we need is the Triforce of Squares.

 

[StarLight42]

Greetings Genobros. At the climax of the "Spirits deconfirm!" nonsense, it's been a bit rough recently. We can do this, though

 

[SeanHicksArt]

View attachment 260528

You've got that right! The prophecy of "The Big 3" must come to pass. (the 2nd Fighter PASS to be exact)

It's only a matter of time now!

 

[YsDisciple]

Hmm, interesting. Andre giving his wants for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Hmm, interesting. Andre giving his wants for the Fighters Pass Vol. 2.

Cool video, sadly it doesn't have Geno in the list so it could be considered off topic enough to get a warning from the mods

 

[T2by4]

Greetings Genobros. At the climax of the "Spirits deconfirm!" nonsense, it's been a bit rough recently. We can do this, though

Sansriel Dreemur has a point fellas. This is gonna be Geno's year. It just has to be.

 

[TX-55]

I've been thinking over who actually makes the most sense for Fighter 6, I'm going to make a pretty safe assumption that whoever 6 is, they're from a company that already has something in Smash, like many people have pointed out it just makes the most sense negotiation and time wise that they would be the first decided and developed, and that whoever is getting revealed is relatively big, Nintendo likes to start off Smash reveals strong. So let's go through all the companies.

• SNK: No. Terry is pretty clearly here to represent all of SNK.
• Konami : No.I don't see Bomberman getting upgraded (it sucks), and the only other franchises I can see getting something in Smash from them is Contra I guess, but I don't see that happenning either and certainly not 6. Bill Rizer mii costume could actually happen though, I mean Goemon got one.
• Sega : Maybe? Honestly, the only Sega character I can see getting in is a Yakuza rep, and I don't know if Nintendo would pick that, but he could be a sleeper pick so who knows. Either way I don't think he'd be 6 anyway, and neither would Arle.
• Microsoft: If they do get a character they probably aern't first. Chief is way too damn big and I don't know if I see them picking Steve over him anyway, but if they did I don't think he'd be negotiated as one of the first anyway.
• Namco : Fully expect but doesn't really make sense in my mind as the first. Neither Heihachi or Lloyd feel hype or unexpected enough in my mind to carry the pass as the first but who knows.
• Capcom : Big HMMMMM here. I'm pretty much fully on the Dante train at this point, and while I think he's a perfect pick to start the pass I also don't see him being 6. Pretty much everyone has heard him at this point but it also seems relatively recent, and given how Capcom stuff tends to leak, I think we would know if he was coming first. Could happen, but I think he's a much safer bet to come later.
• Nintendo : I don't think so. I'm pretty iffy on another shill pick as it is and Nintendo isn't stupid enough to follow up Byleth or start a pass with one. So that just leaves the other first party options, and the only one I really see as plausible is Waluigi. I know people will disagree with me on this, but if any first party character gets promoted, its him, full stop. That being said, I don't see it happening. I agree with pretty much everything Fatman has said on him making perfect sense as 6, and have my own theories on the matter, but I genuinely don't see it, and do think he was leakbait for Byleth, he's come up too often for it not to be the case.

So that just leaves . . . Square. Huh. Lets think about this, something I've been thinking about for awhile. Hero presentation at end of July, recorded sometime in June. No Chocobo or Geno costume to be seen. Even if we assume that "oh they could have taken out the costumes after recording because it's just a seperate video" if the Costumes were moved to a different Square character at all, this was decided on by the end of July, meaning that whoever they were moved to was decided on by that point. I think this really points to Square having one of the first slots on the pass if not THE first. Also worth pointing out this means whoever they picked would likely be easy to negotiate for. Maybe even someone who's rights are even already negotiated? Just a thought.

I still don't see how Waluigi could realistically be seen as leakbait, when the majority (including quite a number of Wah fans) believes or just thinks that AT promotion is highly unlikely for Ultimate, even people in the know think that way.
That's why I think Waluigi is a poor choice for leakbait, nobody takes him seriously like say, Dante, Crash, or Heihachi.
Me personally, I never gave up on him, and I still believe that 2020 is the year Waluigi finally get his dues.

 

[Icewolff92]

They ended with Bayonetta not Corrin, big difference there. And before you say "Well Bayo was a shill pick too!", and believe me I know, but they played it as if she was this super big highly requested character, the one who apparently """""won""""" the ballot, and to be fair, alot of people did want and were happy with her.

Then ended with TWO shillpicks
Like I said before . Having "shillpicks" even if they are highly requested isn¨t anything new

Isabelle who got announced the same time as the Animal Crossing that is getting released this march.
Joker - Persona 5S and Persona 5 scramble (I add this because the announcement was pretty darn close to the release)
Hero - Dragon Quest 11s
Corrin - Fates
Bayonetta - Bayonetta 2
I would even argue that Terry was a massive advertisement to Fatal Fury and Kingdom of Fighters as a whole with how in-depth he went along with it.

Now that I think of it.. Byleth does share a lot of similarities with Bayonetta
Recently released game, and included because of marketing
Get hype from people that have played the game, but a **** ton of controversy and anger from those who has not.

You can¨t use the "and to be fair. a lot of people want and were happy with her" as a defense for Bayonetta when the same goes for Byleth after Three Houses success.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Then ended with TWO shillpicks
Like I said before . Having "shillpicks" even if they are highly requested isn¨t anything new

Isabelle who got announced the same time as the Animal Crossing that is getting released this march.
Joker - Persona 5S and Persona 5 scramble (I add this because the announcement was pretty darn close to the release)
Hero - Dragon Quest 11s
Corrin - Fates
Bayonetta - Bayonetta 2
I would even argue that Terry was a massive advertisement to Fatal Fury and Kingdom of Fighters as a whole with how in-depth he went along with it.

Now that I think of it.. Byleth does share a lot of similarities with Bayonetta
Recently released game, and included because of marketing
Get hype from people that have played the game, but a **** ton of controversy and anger from those who has not.

You can¨t use the "and to be fair. a lot of people want and were happy with her" as a defense for Bayonetta when the same goes for Byleth after Three Houses success.

Isabelle wasn't added to promote a game. She's a Nintendo All-Star. Of course, her announcement was tied to something. But announcement/reason she's added.

Joker wasn't used to advertise Scramble. He was used at most to advertise an old game already out and a bit of previous Persona games. He's very shill-less.

Hero, yeah, kind of. But only cause Luminary's the face. The character himself was added for DQ's legacy. The face is clearly "shill"ing.

Corrin we know for sure.

Bayonetta depends entirely if 2 was coming out after her announcement or not. I forget. So I won't delve into this one yet.

Byleth doesn't really seem related to advertising at all. The character is a recency pick instead. Sakurai noted he got the game beforehand, to figure out what the character is like. It wasn't really used to promote 3H to get more people to buy it either. Of course, this also depends if you believe the reveals are intentionally meant to happen at a certain time near or before a game. Likewise, wasn't Joker announced earlier than intended? And didn't 5Scramble get announced shortly after Joker? If so, that means Joker(who already had nothing to do with Scramble Smash-wise) was unrelated at that point and was going to be announced afterwards anyway. Things changed.

You could say timing doesn't always correlate here. It's also why i don't think the advertisement picks are nearly as simple as people make it. There's a lot more context.

If you look at each character, Corrin is the only one from an upcoming game. The rest were legacy or from a previous notable game that they're tied to. In other words, they were from older but major games. Bayonetta maybe didn't have the same gaming legacy for Sakurai(if it was more on Nintendo who picked her, anyway). I already noted how Hero is a bit of both, but not a traditional advertisement pick(as 11 was already originally out by the time he was picked. Luminary was already the latest and easiest to recognize face at that point. So it was an easy choice. There's no denying that wasn't used to help advertise the Definitive Edition. But even if that game wasn't being done, Hero with Luminary's face would've still made a ton of sense. That felt more like incentive than the core reason).

 

[Icewolff92]

Isabelle wasn't added to promote a game. She's a Nintendo All-Star. Of course, her announcement was tied to something. But announcement/reason she's added.

The timing of her announcement is what I¨m talking about was a promo move

Joker wasn't used to advertise Scramble. He was used at most to advertise an old game already out and a bit of previous Persona games. He's very shill-less.

I would argue that the timing of his release comes off as "Scramble/P5s" promo, but I see where you are coming at. There is also the fact that they wanted someone to make people buy the pack day one.

Hero, yeah, kind of. But only cause Luminary's the face. The character himself was added for DQ's legacy. The face is clearly "shill"ing.

Dragon Quest deserved to be in because of legacy sure, but when Square has openly admitted that the sales needed to be better in order the series to continue getting western releases... You get my drill.

Bayonetta depends entirely if 2 was coming out after her announcement or not. I forget. So I won't delve into this one yet.

The game was released in September, the announcement were in December the same. The holiday month where people buy more than usual.

Byleth doesn't really seem related to advertising at all. The character is a recency pick instead. Sakurai noted he got the game beforehand, to figure out what the character is like. It wasn't really used to promote 3H to get more people to buy it either. Of course, this also depends if you believe the reveals are intentionally meant to happen at a certain time near or before a game. Likewise, wasn't Joker announced earlier than intended? And didn't 5Scramble get announced shortly after Joker? If so, that means Joker(who already had nothing to do with Scramble Smash-wise) was unrelated at that point and was going to be announced afterwards anyway. Things changed.

If Byleth ain¨t a promo pic, then explain to me why they showed the trailer for the last wave of Fire Emblem DLC at the smash bros stream for the European version. DLC that just so happens to be releasing in less than two weeks. If he wasn¨t and they needed to work on the "real fifth" some more, they had an entire month to do so, which makes the whole "they needed to delay it" even less sense. They said it would be done by February of 20/20, not January.

You plan the release schedule way in advance. Or do you think showing Hero and Banjo were just sheer "coincidence"? I swear, if the fifth were anyone besides an FE rep, we wouldn¨t even have this discussion, to begin with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The timing of her announcement is what I¨m talking about was a promo move

Your implication was just advertising in general, hence the confusion.

I would argue that the timing of his release comes off as "Scramble/P5s" promo, but I see where you are coming at.

Well, promo move, but as I said, I didn't realize that's what you meant.

Dragon Quest deserved to be in because of legacy sure, but when Square has openly admitted that the sales needed to be better in order the series to continue getting western releases... You get my drill.

Oh, I can see how that plays a role. But as I said, that's the Luminary face factor, not the character in general. This also is a good reason for the DQ-only direct.

The game was released in September, the announcement were in December the same. The holiday month where people buy more than usual.

This I'd call a stretch, though. If anything, she might've been chosen because they themselves want the character to be known so sales will never stop. It's not the same thing as chosen for the sake of advertising, mind you. But Nintendo wanted to milk Bayonetta for what she's worth anyway. I feel recency is the bigger factor in that case.

If Byleth ain¨t a promo pic, then explain to me why they showed the trailer for the last wave of Fire Emblem DLC at the same stream for the European version that just so happens to be releasing in less then two weeks.

I would call that equally an Isabelle situation. They had the perfect way to use Byleth to help push other stuff, though again, that's not why the character was chosen in the first place.

Basically, I'm saying that beyond Hero(somewhat) and Corrin, the characters weren't outright chosen to promote specific upcoming games. However, the characters were still used to help promote stuff cause it made sense to use every advantage they can when being a business.

 

[Icewolff92]

This I'd call a stretch, though. If anything, she might've been chosen because they themselves want the character to be known so sales will never stop. It's not the same thing as chosen for the sake of advertising, mind you. But Nintendo wanted to milk Bayonetta for what she's worth anyway. I feel recency is the bigger factor in that case.

Still does not change the fact that they announced her at the right time to give the game an extra boost in sales number which is a marketing move it in of itself.

I would call that equally an Isabelle situation. They had the perfect way to use Byleth to help push other stuff, though again, that's not why the character was chosen in the first place.

Then explain to me why Byleth was the fifth DLC and not someone like Rex & Pyra, who just to happen to have a game that was 2 years old, but with no DLC or sequel on the horizon if the DLC had nothing to do with his/her inclusion? I have Rex & Pyra as an example concidering well... they were supposed to late for the base game as well, yet Byleth, the protagonist for a game that isn¨t even a year old gets in as DLC that just happen to have DLC on its way..

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Still does not change the fact that they announced her at the right time to give the game an extra boost in sales number.

Actually, it does matter. Announcements are not the same as reason for picking in the first place. She wasn't chosen for advertising reasons. But she was used smartly to help advertise a game they wanted to also sell. You're correlating two different kind of promotional factors as if they're equal situations. They're not.

Then explain to me why Byleth was the fifth DLC and not someone like Rex & Pyra, who just to happen to have a game that was 2 years old, but with no DLC or sequel on the horizon if the DLC had nothing to do with his/her inclusion?

Because Byleth's game was coming out at the right time for Smash DLC as is. Rex/Pyra never stood a chance due to being too late for base and too early for Smash. They're completely unrelated beyond the timing of the game release.

Second part is hard to say. Byleth wouldn't obviously be the first character cause that wouldn't sell the pass. Fire Emblem has been soured on a lot. Joker was a given and most mainstream right then(and announced too early anyway). Another thing to remember is the less hype picks are the general way to end a pass/base game, but that's cause they're safer to do at that point. Pre-orders are always mostly done now. So they can drop the smaller characters last(Isabelle isn't exactly smaller, but the actual trailer wasn't designed to hype Smash players up that much. Not entirely. It wasn't action-packed. It was clearly done in a way that entices AC fans specifically, not Smash fans. Some found the trailer lame too. Can't blame them. AC:NH was in a way treated as a more hype announcement). That's common business sense. Also, the idea they planned DLC for 3H 2 years in advanced is highly doubtful. You'd need to cite that before I take it as some idea Byleth was chosen to be last for that reason. Now, I could see Byleth's exact announcement being changed to help match the FE3H DLC time period. That makes a lot of sense. Especially since it could've even been pushed forward a little from February, the end of Pass 1.

 

[Lyncario]

Still does not change the fact that they announced her at the right time to give the game an extra boost in sales number which is a marketing move it in of itself.

You see, the problem with that argument is that Bayonetta 2 came out in September 2014, and her Sm4sh anouncement was in December 2015.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I still don't see how Waluigi could realistically be seen as leakbait, when the majority (including quite a number of Wah fans) believes or just thinks that AT promotion is highly unlikely for Ultimate, even people in the know think that way.
That's why I think Waluigi is a poor choice for leakbait, nobody takes him seriously like say, Dante, Crash, or Heihachi.
Me personally, I never gave up on him, and I still believe that 2020 is the year Waluigi finally get his dues.

Exactly. Waluigi is so unbelievable on his own that he doesn't need leakbait. Lots of people are genuinely getting mad at me for predicting Waluigi for 6 because the mere suggestion sounds like trolling. That's why it's perfect. He basically covers himself because being a perpetual loser is literally one of the defining traits of Waluigi and why, despite the name being everywhere and heard by insiders since late 2018, a vast majority of people don't think it's remotely possible.

 

[Akg0001]

Why would Waluigi be the first character of FP2? People will think other AT promotions will happen too, but in the end no other AT promotions will happen and people will be dissapointed and angry...

Also fans of characters like Waluigi and Geno are already Nintendo/Smash fans. Chances they bought FP2 already are high. If Nintendo wants to sell FP2 even more, start FP2 with popular characters whose fans dont own Smash/FP2.

From a business aspect Geno and Waluigi should be at the end of FP2. Start FP2 with a character who has huge amount of fans, even outside of Nintendo. E3 2020 will be very important for selling FP2. I dont think Geno fits a E3 reveal. Like I said: Geno fans = most likely Smash fans already.

 

[Organization XIII]

I would call that equally an Isabelle situation. They had the perfect way to use Byleth to help push other stuff, though again, that's not why the character was chosen in the first place.

Basically, I'm saying that beyond Hero(somewhat) and Corrin, the characters weren't outright chosen to promote specific upcoming games. However, the characters were still used to help promote stuff cause it made sense to use every advantage they can when being a business.

Ok but see Isabelle is an advertisement pick. The fact her trailer was planned to tie to the AC announcement shows that. Also do keep in mind Nintendo knows that an addition to Smash can increase sales even after the game is out so it's not like that matters. Smash 4 had plenty of ad picks that came out way after their game's release. Now the bigger issue is still Sakurai's inherint bias towards the series. Even for shill picks there were more options then FE but alas unless he can't overlook FE even when he knows the community is against it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why would Waluigi be the first character of FP2? People will think other AT promotions will happen too, but in the end no other AT promotions will happen and people will be dissapointed and angry...

From a business aspect Geno and Waluigi should be at the end of FP2. Start FP2 with a character who has huge amount of fans, even outside of Nintendo. E3 2020 will be very important for selling FP2. I dont think Geno fits a E3 reveal. Like I said: Geno fans = most likely Smash fans already.

But that's kind of the point though. Literally every E3 major reveal since 2006 has tried to have at least one casual pick and one that resonates with Smash fans.

2006- Wario and Snake
2013- Villager and Megaman
2014- Miis, Palutena, and Pac-Man
2015- Roy and Ryu
2018- Daisy and Ridley
2019- Hero and Banjo

Like I've repeatedly argued in this thread, Geno is pretty much one of the last remaining "old" picks of Smash fans. I've been participating in Smash Speculation online since essentially 2002, I can definitely attest to this. This is why he would be appropriate for an E3 reveal.

 

[Akg0001]

But that's kind of the point though. Literally every E3 major reveal since 2006 has tried to have at least one casual pick and one that resonates with Smash fans.

2006- Wario and Snake
2013- Villager and Megaman
2014- Miis, Palutena, and Pac-Man
2015- Roy and Ryu
2018- Daisy and Ridley
2019- Hero and Banjo

Like I've repeatedly argued in this thread, Geno is pretty much one of the last remaining "old" picks of Smash fans. I've been participating in Smash Speculation online since essentially 2002, I can definitely attest to this. This is why he would be appropriate for an E3 reveal.

Ok this makes sense for Geno if I think about it. Hopefully you are right with Crash & Geno at E3 2020. This would be beyond hype. But also Geno could be E3 2021 too. Hopefully not this late.

But what about Waluigi would give false hope to people for more AT promotions? And Waluigi fans most likely have Smash and bought FP2 already. I really dont see him happening this soon...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ok this makes sense for Geno if I think about it. Hopefully you are right with Crash & Geno at E3 2020. This would be beyond hype. But also Geno could be E3 2021 too. Hopefully not this late.

But what about Waluigi would give false hope to people for more AT promotions? And Waluigi fans most likely have Smash and bought FP2 already. I really dont see him happening this soon...

Because I don't think Nintendo cares as much about making people mad as a lot of people think they do. Case in point: Byleth. Knew it would piss people off to the point of even joking about it in Byleth's trailer and did it anyways. "Too many Fire Emblem swordsmen" has been a meme since 2014 when we only had 4 and now we have 8, including Corrin who was the worst received character before Byleth. Nintendo isn't totally deaf to the fans but they still sometimes do stuff and don't care about potential negative backlash. Again, these are the same people that added Incineroar over Decidueye and made a potted plant playable despite mountains of evidence that both decisions would cause seething worldwide.

-NEW: GameXplain recently came out with another one of their notorious rumor videos and I'll say three of my contacts and I have heard these same rumors. Wii U ports incoming, three games heard the most, two are painfully obvious at this point and everyone has been asking about them forever. My contacts think they're finally happening.

.

Oh look, another rumor that came true:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LHxpKMy4oS4

Yes, the third game I heard less often than the other two (Pikmin 3 and 3D World) was the Wonderful 101. Nice to have this finally confirmed.

Add in: Crap, double post.

 

[Vector Victor]

One concern I saw with a DLC spirit board and some characters is that what would their spirits be if the common ones are already in game? Like Dixie. Would she use more obscure DK spirits, more enemy spirits from DKC2, 3 or TF? Or would they just pick spirits in the base game and make that her spirit board, the advantage being then that those spirits are always accessible instead of being randomized on the base game spirit board?

Lucky enough, Geno wouldn't have that issue since only him and Mallow are in so far for Mario RPG.

 

[Deleted member]

One concern I saw with a DLC spirit board and some characters is that what would their spirits be if the common ones are already in game? Like Dixie. Would she use more obscure DK spirits, more enemy spirits from DKC2, 3 or TF? Or would they just pick spirits in the base game and make that her spirit board, the advantage being then that those spirits are always accessible instead of being randomized on the base game spirit board?

Lucky enough, Geno wouldn't have that issue since only him and Mallow are in so far for Mario RPG.

I believe Mallow is not even found at the spirit board but the WoL so he can show up again .

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, Geno would be fine spirit wise. Literally an entire game stuffed to the brim with original characters so making a spirit board would be a non-issue.

On the topic of spirits, the reason Megadoomer's post was such a gut punch to spirit promotion detractors was because it showed base game spirits being edited. "No one ever said this couldn't happen." Oh ho ho yes they did... These were some of the earliest arguments made against Geno when his spirit was revealed. "Oh, they could just adjust the name if he became DLC." "Uh, nuh uh... It's permanent; cope and seethe."

 

[Lyncario]

Oh look, another rumor that came true:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LHxpKMy4oS4

Yes, the third game I heard less often than the other two (Pikmin 3 and 3D World) was the Wonderful 101. Nice to have this finally confirmed.

Add in: Crap, double post.

I wouldn't believe that rumor all that much. I mean, the video relies on info that says that The Wonderfull 101 will come on the Switch and PS4. But TW101 is owned by Nintendo, in the same way that Astral Chain is. In contrast, Nintendo only help funding Bayonetta 2 and onwards, which is why Bayo 1 is getting something along that other game I forgot about on PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[JayZoob]

Still does not change the fact that they announced her at the right time to give the game an extra boost in sales number which is a marketing move it in of itself.

Just to clarify Bayonetta 2 was released in September 2014 and she was announced in December 2015. I don't see how this would have helped sales of Bayonetta 2 at all in any substantial way.

 

[MattX20]

Again, I reiterate that Geno's not part of Square's two main IPs. Given that Cloud wasn't an E3 reveal either, I don't think a general direct for Geno should be counted as unlikely, especially since many insiders are banking on a returning company being first for the second Fighter Pass. That, and Geno technically counts as both a Square and a Nintendo rep at the same time since Geno's a Mario-only character and not part of any Square franchise.

 

[Vector Victor]

I want the Boomer spirit battle to be against a Ness that just spans his 'Okay' taunt.

 

[JarBear]

Yeah, Geno would be fine spirit wise. Literally an entire game stuffed to the brim with original characters so making a spirit board would be a non-issue.

On the topic of spirits, the reason Megadoomer's post was such a gut punch to spirit promotion detractors was because it showed base game spirits being edited. "No one ever said this couldn't happen." Oh ho ho yes they did... These were some of the earliest arguments made against Geno when his spirit was revealed. "Oh, they could just adjust the name if he became DLC." "Uh, nuh uh... It's permanent; cope and seethe."

I remember those arguments, I think I was one of those that said nintnendo could update spirits by simply adding (Series) after the name and the detractors said “no way, that’s dumb.”

 

[Fatmanonice]

Isabelle was not a shill pick... Isabelle was incredibly popular and people ignored her at their own peril, just like they are now with Waluigi. She's an absolute monster among casual Nintendo fans and easily the most popular original Nintendo character created since 2012. Yeah, she wasn't super wanted among Smash fans but the fact that she's basically been the face of Animal Crossing since New Leaf says a lot. She had two Amiibo before Smash. She has an absurd amount of merchandise. Her popularity helped spur Animal Crossing to be one of the first Nintendo series to get a mobile game. She was both an assist trophy and DLC costume in Smash 4 despite practically being brand new. I didn't even get involved in insider stuff until November 2018 but I knew Isabelle was a lock as soon as Ultimate was announced.

Allow me to be even more obnoxious about how Isabelle definitely earned a spot in Smash.

-New Leaf sold 12.5 MILLION copies and even got DLC updates for 3.5 YEARS.

-Happy Home Designer sold about 3 million copies.

-Pocket Camp had 15 MILLION downloads in a WEEK back in 2017.

Isabelle was a behemoth even before Smash 4 was officially revealed despite literally being less than a year old at the time. Isabelle was anything but a shill pick. Like I said, only reason I'm getting uppity because I see history repeating itself with Waluigi because the Smash fanbase refuses to acknowledge that characters can be popular outside of it and still get in. I mean, hell, Wii Fit basically got in because the Wii Fit games sold a whopping 40 MILLION+ copies by 2012 and had an enormous cultural impact worldwide. Forest. Trees. All that jazz. People slept on Wii Fit and Isabelle and people are doing it yet again with Mr. Wah.

 

[xpnc]

Remember, the ballot had a different site for every region as well as a gender question. Isabelle likely topped requests from girls in Japan if not all around the world. Daisy probably came close, too.

In fact, most of Smash Ultimate's newcomers and returning veterans (in the base game) are pretty obvious ballot picks.

I'm just hoping the second fighter pass will include similar fan favourites

 

[Polarthief]

-New Leaf sold 12.5 MILLION copies and even got DLC updates for 3.5 YEARS.

Yeah but combine all of Animal Crossing and Tom Nook looks to be even better! Half-jokes aside, Tom Nook deserves a spot, unless the joke is that he'd rather just run a shop and kidnapping service that strands you on a deserted island travel agency instead.

I want the Boomer spirit battle to be against a Ness that just spans his 'Okay' taunt.

Somewhat relevant.

 

[Vector Victor]

All that success with Animal Crossing should mean that a third rep can easily be justified.

 

[Polarthief]

All that success with Animal Crossing should mean that a third rep can easily be justified.

I wouldn't even mind if we got an echo of Isabelle/Villager for Nook, but not as one of the FP packs, more like echos after FP2 is done.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

But that's kind of the point though. Literally every E3 major reveal since 2006 has tried to have at least one casual pick and one that resonates with Smash fans.

2006- Wario and Snake
2013- Villager and Megaman
2014- Miis, Palutena, and Pac-Man
2015- Roy and Ryu
2018- Daisy and Ridley
2019- Hero and Banjo

Like I've repeatedly argued in this thread, Geno is pretty much one of the last remaining "old" picks of Smash fans. I've been participating in Smash Speculation online since essentially 2002, I can definitely attest to this. This is why he would be appropriate for an E3 reveal.

You know, I didn’t really put too much stock into a Geno E3 reveal until you just outlined all the past reveals like that showing a popular pick and a ‘niche pic’.

That could totally work for Waluigi and Geno (or Crash if certain sources are to be believed...and if they are right let’s hope that they take the place of Waluigi and not Geno).

nice theory craft!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok but see Isabelle is an advertisement pick. The fact her trailer was planned to tie to the AC announcement shows that. Also do keep in mind Nintendo knows that an addition to Smash can increase sales even after the game is out so it's not like that matters. Smash 4 had plenty of ad picks that came out way after their game's release. Now the bigger issue is still Sakurai's inherint bias towards the series. Even for shill picks there were more options then FE but alas unless he can't overlook FE even when he knows the community is against it.

Nope. She was an All-Star way before that and she was clearly a Casual fan-favorite. Using a character like her to help advertise something purely is the timing of her reveal. It has nothing to do with how immensely popular she was and well known. Even if there was no game coming like New Horizons, she'd have been chosen anyway.

Literally the only actual factor she required was being able to make work, and that's why she was a Villager semi-clone. An entirely new moveset wasn't really possible at that point. They put more priority on uniqueness of others, but still did a great job using the available works(like Amiibo Festival) to make her work overall.

Byleth really wasn't a shill pack in the first place, anyway. The game was releasing in the right time window. The time of announcement being used to help promote stuff has zero correlation on why someone is chosen. We already see why they were chosen, which is to represent the weapon triangle and use a whip sword. It's Uniqueness, but unlike Corrin, wasn't about choosing someone for the sake of advertising an upcoming game. If they wanted to do that, they'd have released the character before 3H came out. The closest is a slight bit with the DLC, but that was more promotional timing, just like Isabelle, not choosing a character inherently for the sake of advertisement. Timing matters a lot in these cases.