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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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TheBeastHimself

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I keep making these posts about staying neutral, but I just keep seeing arguments and arguments not just here, but in other places as well. Sorry for making one of theses posts again, but there is literally no way to determine if the leak is real or not. There could be the most undeniable, damning piece of evidence serving in the leak's favor but unless it's official confirmation from Nintendo we won't know. There isn't going to be a smoking gun that decides the legitimacy of the leak, Nintendo is that gun. Discussion of the leak is one thing, but these arguments where people are making jabs and insults towards each other is getting really irritating at this point.

Trying to prove or disprove this leak is a waste of time, I'm sorry to pop anyone's bubble. I'll reiterate it one more time, it is literally impossible to prove it. It doesn't matter who has what credible sources, it doesn't matter if the official battlefield background has a cloud that looks different than the one in the leak, and it certainly doesn't matter if the leaker works at this company or that company. Nintendo is the deciding factor and until they have spoken, arguments are pointless, causing unnecessary drama, and overall is just making the Smash community look bad. Who would want to join a community where people throw back and forth insults at each other over an unproveable leak?
 

Mr Gentleman

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Who cares about that leak? Geno is almost certainly playable in Smash; fake or real. That's all we need to know.
I mean yeah for us Geno fan's it really isn't a big deal. my worry is just that the other fanbases are getting so caught up in this that if it turns out to be fake they are in for the biggest crushing yet.

I'd love for this leak to be true. not only does it have Geno but it also has my other big want Banjo and Isaac who I've been hoping for for the sake of the wonderful Isaac fans.
but in my gut something doesn't feel right here. and it scares me that with the amount of attention this leak is getting that people won't even be able to enjoy the hype of the next smash direct because they are gonna expect far too much from this.

and Incineroar will probably become the most hated character of all. because we could very well open up the next direct with him and then everyone who believes this leak freaks out.

I keep making these posts about staying neutral, but I just keep seeing arguments and arguments not just here, but in other places as well. Sorry for making one of theses posts again, but there is literally no way to determine if the leak is real or not. There could be the most undeniable, damning piece of evidence serving in the leak's favor but unless it's official confirmation from Nintendo we won't know. There isn't going to be a smoking gun that decides the legitimacy of the leak, Nintendo is that gun. Discussion of the leak is one thing, but these arguments where people are making jabs and insults towards each other is getting really irritating at this point.

Trying to prove or disprove this leak is a waste of time, I'm sorry to pop anyone's bubble. I'll reiterate it one more time, it is literally impossible to prove it. It doesn't matter who has what credible sources, it doesn't matter if the official battlefield background has a cloud that looks different than the one in the leak, and it certainly doesn't matter if the leaker works at this company or that company. Nintendo is the deciding factor and until they have spoken, arguments are pointless, causing unnecessary drama, and overall is just making the Smash community look bad. Who would want to join a community where people throw back and forth insults at each other over an unproveable leak?
yeah your right. I'm trying to be civil but I could do better myself.

and thing is if a leak is done right there really isn't any way to prove it one way or the other. that is the nature of the beast.
we have been lucky with our previous leaks that the people making them eventually came out to show them being fake. because with some of them like that Geno one. if the guy didn't come forward we really would have just continued to think it was real all the way to the end.

unfortunately if this one is fake then I don't think this guy has any intention of coming out about it. because if it is a faker and he did this elaborate of a leak then I think chances are that name we got isn't the real guy and was planted as a fall guy. So he'll just let all the hate go that guys way and laugh it up.
or he is the real guy and it's real and he's made a grave mistake. either way I worry about that guy. if someone has already gone so far as to ask him themselves who knows what nightmare he is dealing with now. people from all over the world wanting to learn about him. a company that is angry and seeking legal action against him..... yikes
 
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OptimisticStrifer

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I mean I would've hated Incineroar no matter what. Also I sometimes feel people who want to 'police hype' come off really goddamn condescending and maybe they should stop? Everyone is capable of taking this information how they want. We don't need people running around trying to "taper expectations"
 
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TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
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Also I sometimes feel people who want to 'police hype' come off really goddamn condescending and maybe they should stop? Everyone is capable of taking this information how they want. We don't need people running around trying to "taper expectations"
Is this towards me?
 

TheBeastHimself

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It's towards no one in particular; but Mr. Gentlemen made me feel like I needed to put it out there.
Okay because I was afraid I came off rude in my post, which certainly wasn't the case. I just don't want to see people ripping each other's throats out over something not able to be proved.
 

Mr Gentleman

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I mean I would've hated Incineroar no matter what. Also I sometimes feel people who want to 'police hype' come off really goddamn condescending and maybe they should stop? Everyone is capable of taking this information how they want. We don't need people running around trying to "taper expectations"
I'm sorry about that. you make a good point everyone has the right to form their own opinions on the situation. and it's not my place to force my skepticism on others.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I'm well aware people could be hurt if this leak is fake. But as someone who is #TeamReal I'm aware of that and that's a risk I'm willing to take
 
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Don't know if this has been brought up already..... but remember when Masked Man said that there was a leak out that was getting Nintendo upset, and that it may not have gone public just yet?

.........I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that this just might be that very leak.
 

TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
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Don't know if this has been brought up already..... but remember when Masked Man said that there was a leak out that was getting Nintendo upset, and that it may not have gone public just yet?

.........I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that this just might be that very leak.
I wonder if Nintendo took down the leak where it was originally posted. I haven't heard people talk about Nintendo's reaction at all, and if I'm not mistaken they took down the ESRB leak originally.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I'm still not convinced it's real. There is too much conflicting evidence. And I know some of the evidence for it has turned out wrong.

Hoping it's real - or in the least Geno is in regardless
 

PsychoIncarnate

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DOTBHDD

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Oh ****! I heard about that Golden Sun item. I'm sure the Isaac thread is going ****ing bananas right now.

This is exciting stuff. Two magic users; Geno and Isaac, coming to Smash! That's pretty damn great.
 

QcSlayer

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Hello from the Isaac thread! The Growth Psynergies was shown during an official video by nintendo.

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1055519359622410241

It's at 27 sec on the right of the Screen, If it's not Growth I don't know what it can be.

https://twitter.com/IsaacforSmash/status/1055618888098996225

Anyway since Isaac is defenitly coming I'm here to lend my support!

It can't be the ULTIMATE game whitout the 4 kings! Let's all believe in Geno and Santa Grinch!!!!!!

Best of Luck!!!!!!
 
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Luigifan18

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Don't know if this has been brought up already..... but remember when Masked Man said that there was a leak out that was getting Nintendo upset, and that it may not have gone public just yet?

.........I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that this just might be that very leak.
I have to agree. Between this and Occam's Razor, I'm leaning heavily towards Team Real.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I’m not trying to police hype these days as much as I’m asking people to be logical in how they approach things. When there are certain precedents in play I think you seriously need to consider them before making a claim they can be broken so easily. Nintendo and Sakurai do things in very deliberate ways, and ignoring how they approach things often feels like bending the narrative.

I’ve actually noticed it not so much in this thread, but I do think that’s earned me some hate in the Isaac thread where I mention Isaac needing a stage as a new series or that his journey could even be more difficult than Geno given his entire franchise is currently dead. Those aren’t claims to say he is unlikely or whatever (indeed I think we have more stages to come regardless of anything else because of past precedent), but to potentially start additional conversartions on how amazing his inclusion or Geno’s, or whoever’s would be. Or at the very least make people look at what they’re saying and why that can sometimes not make a whole lot of sense.

I more say hype responsibly and logically not because I care about the disappointment angle or think people have to, but because I’ve seen what happens when a fan base doesn’t with Ridley and Smash 4. There’s a reason that board devolved into hell and straight up got locked. There’s a reason Ridley got so much backlash surrounding that game. And there’s a reason people still claim he was meme’d into Smash.

We used all kinds of defenses and rationals to defend his presence. The shadow should have been all we needed, but we also pulled the whole Sakurai trolling excuse. And not only where we crushed, but subsections of the community hated us or laughed at our efforts. That’s what this whole idea of a ton of newcomers painfully reminds me of.

It’s not my job or place to tell you how to feel about a video game, or tell you who to support and how. But I just don’t want to see any of the communities of people I love get that bad of a reputation again. There’s enough going against Geno and Isaac in the eyes of people/due to their more obscure nature. Let’s not add to that and make it harder on ourselves. If we remain logical in how we approach the hype season, and simply say, we think our character is possible, sometimes even likely for such and such reason, then I suspect it’ll be difficult to fault us.
 

RSF-Blue bomber

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I'm well aware people could be hurt if this leak is fake. But as someone who is #TeamReal I'm aware of that and that's a risk I'm willing to take
you speak the truth genobro! im also on team real and by being on that team I understand that I could be very dissappointed.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I'm just so greatful that Issac and Geno are basically 99.9% confirmed. I've never played Golden Sun and I've only played through Super Mario RPG once, but the fact that these characters (who many probably thought we would never see again) are now in the limelight and have relevancy again is amazing. It really goes to show that most characters aren't really forgotten when it comes to Nintendo, and that's pretty special.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I’m not trying to police hype these days as much as I’m asking people to be logical in how they approach things. When there are certain precedents in play I think you seriously need to consider them before making a claim they can be broken so easily. Nintendo and Sakurai do things in very deliberate ways, and ignoring how they approach things often feels like bending the narrative.

I’ve actually noticed it not so much in this thread, but I do think that’s earned me some hate in the Isaac thread where I mention Isaac needing a stage as a new series or that his journey could even be more difficult than Geno given his entire franchise is currently dead. Those aren’t claims to say he is unlikely or whatever (indeed I think we have more stages to come regardless of anything else because of past precedent), but to potentially start additional conversartions on how amazing his inclusion or Geno’s, or whoever’s would be. Or at the very least make people look at what they’re saying and why that can sometimes not make a whole lot of sense.

I more say hype responsibly and logically not because I care about the disappointment angle or think people have to, but because I’ve seen what happens when a fan base doesn’t with Ridley and Smash 4. There’s a reason that board devolved into hell and straight up got locked. There’s a reason Ridley got so much backlash surrounding that game. And there’s a reason people still claim he was meme’d into Smash.

We used all kinds of defenses and rationals to defend his presence. The shadow should have been all we needed, but we also pulled the whole Sakurai trolling excuse. And not only where we crushed, but subsections of the community hated us or laughed at our efforts. That’s what this whole idea of a ton of newcomers painfully reminds me of.

It’s not my job or place to tell you how to feel about a video game, or tell you who to support and how. But I just don’t want to see any of the communities of people I love get that bad of a reputation again. There’s enough going against Geno and Isaac in the eyes of people/due to their more obscure nature. Let’s not add to that and make it harder on ourselves. If we remain logical in how we approach the hype season, and simply say, we think our character is possible, sometimes even likely for such and such reason, then I suspect it’ll be difficult to fault us.
Intended or not; you are indeed coming off as a HUGE hype police. We are adults; and we do not need you to tell us the consequences of believing in a possibly fake thing. Accepting that it MIGHT not be real is somthing you have to accept when you decide you're "Team Real". I really don't think these "hype police' benefit the conversation in any positive manner, no matter how good intentioned. It comes of as condescending every single time.
 
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Laszyking456

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My problem with the Grinch stuff is since we know for a fact that he isn't working for the first company we thought.
which is the one that works on the Grinch. and the company we are now saying he works for isn't working on the Grinch. how on earth do we explain the grinch material being in the picture in the first place? he couldn't have just brought old work material to his new place if he hasn't worked there for 2 years. they wouldn't have even been working on grinch promotion that far back.

Yes, the picture is blurry. but that doesn't mean you can't see any of the differences. the F example is a bit trickier to see. but A is a more clear difference. a blur isn't gonna add an extra tail to a cloud. also, things like the crystals and the completely absent temple are very clearly different. and if it's just gonna be blocked off by characters why would they feel the need to edit it?

what is this youtube video you're talking about I haven't seen examples of changes in the background yet? as far as I can tell the background has stayed the same. and I see no real reason to why they would have such drastic changes to the background as a missing temple. it's more than just clouds.


I said a person on YouTube, not a YouTuber lol, hey I get your trying to debunk so people don't get their hopes up. However, that doesn't mean it can't be real. LMAO. Did you read my comment? You said they have no reason to change the clouds. Then why they change it from E3 clouds? Lol, once again they could of change it epically because it's final art.
Oh, we're done the fighting? Good because I hate arguing with my Fellow Geno bros.
 
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*Verrix*

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Geno and Isaac are my number 1 and 2 most wanted characters. Also with their newfound relevancy I would love those characters to get to star in new games. I remember being 10 and super excited to see another game with Geno in it because I loved Super Mario RPG. It wasn't until years later I learned about the Nintendo and Squaresoft feud. This is exciting, I didn't think I'd have to wait 22 years...
 

EricTheGamerman

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Intended or not; you are indeed coming off as a HUGE hype police. We are adults; and we do not need you to tell us the consequences of believing in a possibly fake thing. Accepting that it MIGHT not be real is somthing you have to accept when you decide you're "Team Real". I really don't think these "hype police' benefit the conversation in any positive manor, no matter how good intentioned. It comes of as condescending every single time.
That’s fair generally speaking. I don’t know of anybody’s individual situation is or what they’ve considered and what they haven’t. Perhaps several people are all too aware of Ridley here as fellow supporters of a character since Brawl. That stands out a lot to me and has always burned me as a fan, so maybe I’m terrified of how our community gets received in the event we don’t get Geno for example. That’s completely fair.

I disagree to some extent that hype policing isn’t helpful. Support threads are for supporting characters, but things can become a little too much of an Echo chamber when it comes to certain points. That’s fine sometimes when it’s good natured support or just discussion of the character’s traits and known quantities.

But when we’re getting to this point and the hype season is approaching it’s end, I think it’s important to consider the realities of the situation. The forums are a discussion at the end of the day, and we should be having an active discourse that doesn’t assume to much at any point and using logical understandings to back that when it comes to more direct character speculation. I don’t think saying, “Hey, what you’re saying doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and here’s why I think that” is inherently bad in any way. Those posts tend to get a little more backlash than they should I believe. And that’s generally what I’m about with my posts. I just want people to build a good case for their support when it comes to likelihood of inclusion or method of inclusion. I think people are a lot more willing to overlook or wave away evidence and circumstances as things get a little more dire and close to release.

Again, I don’t see so much of it in this thread and I’m not calling people out here all that specifically. I’m sorry that I’m coming off so condescending in my approach. But this is my sort of defense for why I think some amounts of “hype policing” (I wish there was a better term for it cause that’s not exactly right either) isn’t necessarily such a bad thing.
 

SmashKeks

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Also in regards to doubting someone being able to wave around a camera and film in the workplace, I 100% believe that anyone could. I work in a pretty uptight office building with a hellish HR and people get away with insane stuff all the time.
Chiming in, I work the back rooms of a thrift store with people moving in and out all the time. I don't even have a phone but I'm sure that if I can scratch my badonk through my pants without anyone seeing me, I could film a snapchat story.
 

Laszyking456

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That’s fair generally speaking. I don’t know of anybody’s individual situation is or what they’ve considered and what they haven’t. Perhaps several people are all too aware of Ridley here as fellow supporters of a character since Brawl. That stands out a lot to me and has always burned me as a fan, so maybe I’m terrified of how our community gets received in the event we don’t get Geno for example. That’s completely fair.

I disagree to some extent that hype policing isn’t helpful. Support threads are for supporting characters, but things can become a little too much of an Echo chamber when it comes to certain points. That’s fine sometimes when it’s good-natured support or just discussion of the character’s traits and known quantities.

But when we’re getting to this point and the hype season is approaching its end, I think it’s important to consider the realities of the situation. The forums are a discussion at the end of the day, and we should be having an active discourse that doesn’t assume too much at any point and using logical understandings to back that when it comes to more direct character speculation. I don’t think saying, “Hey, what you’re saying doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and here’s why I think that” is inherently bad in any way. Those posts tend to get a little more backlash than they should I believe. And that’s generally what I’m about with my posts. I just want people to build a good case for their support when it comes to the likelihood of inclusion or method of inclusion. I think people are a lot more willing to overlook or wave away evidence and circumstances as things get a little more dire and close to release.

Again, I don’t see so much of it in this thread and I’m not calling people out here all that specifically. I’m sorry that I’m coming off so condescending in my approach. But this is my sort of defense for why I think some amounts of “hype policing” (I wish there was a better term for it cause that’s not exactly right either) isn’t necessarily such a bad thing.

We are however telling people what to do isn't right. You already said it once no need to say it again. Plus I'm pretty sure we're all adults here. We shouldn't have to do what you say your not our parents. We know what we're getting into by believing the leak.

Chiming in, I work the back rooms of a thrift store with people moving in and out all the time. I don't even have a phone but I'm sure that if I can scratch my badonk through my pants without anyone seeing me, I could film a snapchat story.
It could be used the other way lol. There might not been people there or he was acting. Like he was working and he took a quick pic. Stop acting like what you guys said debunks it.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Again, not just the leak and the leak is honestly one of the things I’m talking the least about. The blatant disregard to Sakurai’s own insisted upon comments for this game is where my frustration mostly comes from admittedly.

But, I apologize for any discomfort or condescension I’ve given off. I’ve probably been doing a bit too much in academics where the need for damn near perfectly supported claims is so paramount to everything that I could be forgetting the fun of Smash speculation as that seeps in. The lack of concrete new information puts people, myself included, on edge and I can’t personally let myself believe in us having several more additions and SmashBoards is pretty much the way by which I express all Smash emotions haha.

I also just don’t think Geno needs anymore information to stretch his chances in anyway (I’m not referring to anything in particular here). That’s why we’re such a strong thread is there is a lot of strong support with him that can be concluded so well. Geno has a serious shot for one of the last newcomer slots. And after tonight I think Isaac does too with that new sprout item. Having them both in would make Ultimate feel all the sweeter.
 

KCCHIEFS27

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Again, not just the leak and the leak is honestly one of the things I’m talking the least about. The blatant disregard to Sakurai’s own insisted upon comments for this game is where my frustration mostly comes from admittedly.

But, I apologize for any discomfort or condescension I’ve given off. I’ve probably been doing a bit too much in academics where the need for damn near perfectly supported claims is so paramount to everything that I could be forgetting the fun of Smash speculation as that seeps in. The lack of concrete new information puts people, myself included, on edge and I can’t personally let myself believe in us having several more additions and SmashBoards is pretty much the way by which I express all Smash emotions haha.

I also just don’t think Geno needs anymore information to stretch his chances in anyway (I’m not referring to anything in particular here). That’s why we’re such a strong thread is there is a lot of strong support with him that can be concluded so well. Geno has a serious shot for one of the last newcomer slots. And after tonight I think Isaac does too with that new sprout item. Having them both in would make Ultimate feel all the sweeter.
Sakurai contradicts himself all the time man where have you been? Remember when Villager wasn't smash bros material and Ridley was too big?
 

SmashKeks

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Again, not just the leak and the leak is honestly one of the things I’m talking the least about. The blatant disregard to Sakurai’s own insisted upon comments for this game is where my frustration mostly comes from admittedly.

But, I apologize for any discomfort or condescension I’ve given off. I’ve probably been doing a bit too much in academics where the need for damn near perfectly supported claims is so paramount to everything that I could be forgetting the fun of Smash speculation as that seeps in. The lack of concrete new information puts people, myself included, on edge and I can’t personally let myself believe in us having several more additions and SmashBoards is pretty much the way by which I express all Smash emotions haha.

I also just don’t think Geno needs anymore information to stretch his chances in anyway (I’m not referring to anything in particular here). That’s why we’re such a strong thread is there is a lot of strong support with him that can be concluded so well. Geno has a serious shot for one of the last newcomer slots. And after tonight I think Isaac does too with that new sprout item. Having them both in would make Ultimate feel all the sweeter.
To be fair, the people on this board aren't just arguing Geno at this point. Keep in mind that, if Geno was revealed next, he could by extension confirm 4 other characters and 2 echos depending on his artwork and banner placement. Same for any of the other banner characters for Geno. Like it or not, Geno is tied to this leak, even if he's almost assured without it.
 

TBone06

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To be fair, the people on this board aren't just arguing Geno at this point. Keep in mind that, if Geno was revealed next, he could by extension confirm 4 other characters and 2 echos depending on his artwork and banner placement. Same for any of the other banner characters for Geno. Like it or not, Geno is tied to this leak, even if he's almost assured without it.
Yeah, if any of those seven characters get revealed, we'll know if this leak has merits because we can assume the banner would be updated. If the banner matches the leak, we know it's real and vice versa.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Sakurai contradicts himself all the time man where have you been? Remember when Villager wasn't smash bros material and Ridley was too big?
And every time this is from game to game as audiences and considerations change. The roster is decided right now and isn’t going to just change like that in the same way that he decides characters can work in subsequent games.

That’s a significantly different scenario from the current idea I see of Sakurai intentionally saying one thing during this hype cycle and then contradicting it later on to build hype for this game... which sounds really weird when I say it out loud. There’s no real reason to do it that way anyways. Assuming this all is ruse requires a lot of assumptions I feel like...

And that’s true on the leak I suppose. I hadn’t thought about it confirming with the poster update. That said, I’m in the camp who believes whatever Smash news we get next will be the last anyway, so it’s kind of a moot point for me haha.
 

Bendario

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Sakurai said to expect fewer characters. 10 newcomers is fewer than any game in the series. If you include the echo characters, Brawl and Smash 4 still had more.

Sakurai said reveals would be slowing down. A single big reveal with all these characters would make one reveal in 2-3 months.
 

Laszyking456

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Guys, it could be an hour long smash direct going over the last characters and the mysterious mode. We've had longer directs in the past.
 
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TheTreasonousSnowmad

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Yeah, if any of those seven characters get revealed, we'll know if this leak has merits because we can assume the banner would be updated. If the banner matches the leak, we know it's real and vice versa.
Which I think is a strong argument for there being a singular Direct with Smash information. Now, Nintendo knows if they put any character on that banner and it matches the leak's design, (not the position, as that changes with each character added) then the rest of them will be confirmed as well, in addition to the Chad Ganondorf leak. We may have been screwed out of possible spaced out announcements and could just have to wait for the planned final announcement.
 

Red Dead Redeemed

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'Murica-land Baybeee!
Which I think is a strong argument for there being a singular Direct with Smash information. Now, Nintendo knows if they put any character on that banner and it matches the leak's design, (not the position, as that changes with each character added) then the rest of them will be confirmed as well, in addition to the Chad Ganondorf leak. We may have been screwed out of possible spaced out announcements and could just have to wait for the planned final announcement.
Assuming this leak is real, if they really did have seven characters waiting in the wings, then it's Ninendo's own fault for not spacing out the reveals properly. There should have been a reveal last week showing off two or three characters if they still had that many to go. Holding off till November only makes sense if there were only four or less reveals left. Now it would make a November Direct feel really bloated. (Assuming the Grinch leak is correct of course, which is still a very big "if")
 
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ZelDan

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An interesting little fact I heard someone bring up on GameFaqs a couple days ago is how the 5 unique characters all represent different Nintendo systems:

NES = Mach Rider
SNES = Geno
N64 = Banjo
GBA= Isaac
DS= Rhythm Heaven

If this leak is real, I wonder if this pattern was intentional? I wonder if this is something that would get referenced in a Smash direct? Hell, maybe the reason all characters were kept in one direct is so that Sakurai could kinda work off that idea, maybe make a big deal about how there are many characters that come from many different Nintendo systems throughout Nintendo's history, and then proceed to say "but, there are 5 systems in particular I'd like to focus on..."

I'm not saying this is something that will definitely happen; just a fun, cool idea that just came to my mind that would make for an interesting way to reveal these last newcomers, and would make for a reasonable explanation as to why Sakurai decided to put them all into one direct maybe.

EDIT - found the thread where I found this observation:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77128113

The guy didn't just bring up systems though but even generations, with all 5 getting represented. I forgot about that. Huh...
 
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